| --- Day changed Fri Jun 27 2008 | ||
| kanzure | So did I solve the visualization problem or not ? | 00:58 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | The issues on mapping the metadata in some visual manner ? | 00:58 |
| kanzure | and on top of a model of the brain ? | 00:58 |
| ybit | oi, how big is the git repository? | 01:08 |
| ybit | it's taking quite awhile to download it seems | 01:09 |
| faceface | fenn ...<fenn>faceface: havent you read "the sectret life of plants"? and if plants have nervous systems, why not bacteria | 02:25 |
| faceface | <fenn>secret* | 02:25 |
| faceface | <fenn>anyway a leucine transporter doesnt mean much of anything | 02:25 |
| faceface | <fenn>it's just an amino acid | 02:25 |
| faceface | fenn: leucine is a neurotramsmitter also? | 02:26 |
| faceface | but its the fact that our brain proteins have homologues in bactria that interests me | 02:26 |
| faceface | بلوچی مکرانی | 02:29 |
| faceface | kanzure: you asked about something like a 'geographic information system' for the brain? | 02:30 |
| faceface | I don't know of any brain coordinate system for human | 02:30 |
| faceface | gmail is quite lame really | 02:31 |
| faceface | sooo... | 02:43 |
| willPow3r | i dont think gmail was meant for use as a human brain coordinate system | 02:46 |
| faceface | willPow3r: it can be used as a file system | 02:50 |
| willPow3r | true, but it has to be hacked for that to work | 02:50 |
| faceface | I found stuff about rodent brain coordinate systems... but perhaps it was thrashed out in the text above | 02:50 |
| faceface | ;-) | 02:51 |
| willPow3r | it was. | 02:51 |
| faceface | OK | 02:51 |
| faceface | I need a daily summary... I find pages of IRC text hard to scan | 02:51 |
| faceface | ever found an 'auto summary' feature that was any good? | 02:52 |
| willPow3r | i'm sure kanzure will put the chat logs of the conversation up on his web page. | 02:52 |
| willPow3r | not one that isn't done automatically. | 02:52 |
| faceface | willPow3r: too many negatives.... what do you mean? | 02:53 |
| willPow3r | sorry, change "isn't" to "is" | 02:53 |
| faceface | yeah... its a nice idea though... I often wonder how to make AI better, but I have no idea where to starty | 02:56 |
| faceface | start | 02:56 |
| faceface | like ... you know about global workspace theory of consciousness? | 02:56 |
| faceface | seems a great idea... but how to implement that concept on something practical | 02:57 |
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| kanzure | buh | 07:25 |
| nsh | mm? | 07:26 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/chats/2008-06-26.084125-0500CDT.txt | 07:26 |
| kanzure | for Dan. | 07:26 |
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| faceface | tanks | 09:14 |
| faceface | assuming I'm dan | 09:14 |
| faceface | GAH! | 09:14 |
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| ybit | kanzure: diy bio toolkit: http://code.google.com/p/openbiomind/ | 15:31 |
| ybit | rather, it might be of interest to any DIYBio-er | 15:32 |
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| procto | ybit: looks interesting, but I'd say the main diybio hurdle is the physical part. i.e. once one has all that gene and snp biodata, this will be a good toolkit to use, but diybio (the org) is currently concentrating on making the extraction process available and affordable :) | 15:55 |
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| kanzure | ybit: You want to import that into the diybio toolkit ? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | that can be arranged :-) | 15:59 |
| kanzure | but as you said, | 15:59 |
| kanzure | the git repo is already, what, 500 MB? | 15:59 |
| ybit | btw, the git clone finished while i was sleeping :P | 16:00 |
| kanzure | fenn: I found Superkuh in #not-physics today working on a thin-film optical polymer slash bendable fresnel lens. I think he's trying to brew his own internet connectivity. | 16:01 |
| ybit | took a lot longer than downloading from sourceforge, but git is so much more fun | 16:01 |
| kanzure | ybit: Mid-July I'll have an 8 MBit connection, so we'll see if you like that. :) | 16:01 |
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| ybit | 8mbit, i suppose happy and jealous at the same time | 16:06 |
| fenn | kanzure what does thin flexible fresnel lenses have to do with internet connection? | 16:08 |
| kanzure | 'Foundation for Decentralized Research' and co-founder of Freenet is apparently working one block over from me. Huh. | 16:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: stack the lenses in a sheath and then shine lasers through it to transmit information | 16:13 |
| fenn | why not just use regular lenses (as in ronja) | 16:14 |
| kanzure | I think that's what he ended up doing, he mentioned going through craigslist and heading off to go fetch an old projector tv | 16:14 |
| fenn | i took apart a projector tv and it had some neat stuff, a big front surface mirror and 3 cathode ray tubes with big lenses on the front | 16:15 |
| fenn | but, ronja works with dollar store magnifying glasses | 16:15 |
| fenn | i wonder if 'foundation for decentralized research' has any ronja links set up | 16:16 |
| kanzure | ' PGP: THE PUBLIC GENITALS PROJE' | 16:16 |
| kanzure | *project | 16:17 |
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| kanzure | " languages meant to enable new practices. Laadan, for instance, was a language in which truth values were encoded right into speech, so an utterance had to contain information about whether the speaker had actually witnessed the event being described, or whether the inform" | 16:27 |
| kanzure | " Conceptually, the ACTLab operates on three principles5: Refuse closure; Insist on situation; Seek multipl" | 16:29 |
| kanzure | I like 'refuse closure'. But it looks like a transgender group. Odd. | 16:30 |
| fenn | what's the context of 'refuse closure'? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | " t population has the skills to assemble working computers from cheap and plentiful parts. It's helpful here to recall one of the definitive Trans principles, which of course we share wi" | 16:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: I suspect it's 'summarization | 16:34 |
| kanzure | ' | 16:34 |
| kanzure | and a broad/general context | 16:34 |
| kanzure | i.e., 'closure on a deal' or 'closure in conversation' | 16:34 |
| kanzure | I rarely give closure on phone calls any more. | 16:34 |
| kanzure | the whole goodbye shit is meaningless | 16:35 |
| fenn | it lets you know the conversation is over | 16:35 |
| kanzure | " In constructing ACTLab course frameworks, refusing closure is a prime directive: we endeavor to hold discourses in productive tension rather than allowing them to collapse into univocal accounts. This is a deliberate strategy to prevent closure from developing on the framework itself, to make it difficult or impossible for an observer to say “Aha, the curriculum means this”." | 16:36 |
| fenn | "Donna Haraway notes that cyborgs refuse closure" | 16:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: the lack of a connection means they are not listening | 16:36 |
| fenn | maybe it means like in a mathematical sense | 16:37 |
| kanzure | hah | 16:37 |
| kanzure | that'd be peculiar | 16:37 |
| kanzure | closure on a loop struct, yes? | 16:37 |
| fenn | i was thinking like a closed set of numbers | 16:37 |
| fenn | i.e. you can't get out of R except by dividing by zero | 16:37 |
| ybit | i don't have my logs from so many days ago, but does anybody remember me posting a link to a short story in which robots gradually took over and the protagonist and his friend are eventually stuck in a jail-like environment until two ladies deliver a pass to austrailia, where there's a utopia like haven awaiting them. | 16:38 |
| fenn | its marshallbrain.com 'manna' | 16:38 |
| ybit | that's it | 16:38 |
| ybit | thanks | 16:38 |
| fenn | i'd like to point out that it wasnt the robots that took over, it was the capitalists | 16:38 |
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| fenn | or monopolists, whatever | 16:39 |
| kanzure | anyway, the actlab is presenting in the session before me tomorrow | 16:44 |
| kanzure | I'm making an appearance at InnovationCamp in Austin to babble about automating this whole 'innovation' thing | 16:44 |
| kanzure | I wonder what sort of materials I should bring | 16:45 |
| kanzure | There's not much in way of viewables really, except maybe pictures of technologies | 16:46 |
| kanzure | "Here's a lathe." | 16:46 |
| kanzure | "Here's a ribosome." | 16:46 |
| fenn | heh i gotta admit its the first time i've read a trans/goth/make curriculum | 16:46 |
| kanzure | I wonder if they actually have resources though | 16:46 |
| kanzure | otherwise it's just all talk | 16:46 |
| fenn | i'm sure there's some stuff, probably mostly media arts equipment | 16:47 |
| kanzure | skdb for movies? :-/ | 16:47 |
| kanzure | wasn't there an 'open movie project' from blender.org a while back? | 16:47 |
| fenn | just consider it MIT medialab on acid | 16:47 |
| kanzure | they got enough money to have four blender artists come together at an animation studio (a fancy apartment in Paris or something) | 16:47 |
| kanzure | awesome | 16:47 |
| kanzure | actlab, medialab | 16:48 |
| kanzure | hah | 16:48 |
| kanzure | I get it | 16:48 |
| fenn | yeah they made elephants dream and some other movies, quite good actually | 16:48 |
| fenn | hmm. "Vernon was also the author of the Pirate Utopias website...Vernon also created a series of wearable sculptures incorporating integrated circuits and LED displays which he designed and fabricated himself in a chip foundry he built for this purpose" | 16:49 |
| kanzure | uhh | 16:49 |
| kanzure | uhhhh | 16:49 |
| fenn | i wonder if 'chip foundry' means what it generally means | 16:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.vernonreed.com/ | 16:50 |
| kanzure | http://www.vernonreed.com/PastLife.html | 16:50 |
| kanzure | " I was getting into... In 1975, I started making electronic jewels which incorporated CMOS digital circuits to control patterns in liquid crystal displays (LCDs), which I made in a 'clean room' in my studio. These early pieces were revoutionary, in their use of real-time LCD graphics, but they were ultimately unsatisfying. The on-board circuits were not computers and lacked sufficient complexity to be of interest | 16:51 |
| kanzure | ' s were the first ever made. All the while I was working with placing computers on people, I was starting to think about how to get people into the computers instea' | 16:51 |
| kanzure | so does that mean CMOS components were purchased? | 16:52 |
| fenn | i'm not sure | 16:53 |
| kanzure | ' Technology and Metalsmithing Symposium, Tyler School of Art, Philade' | 16:53 |
| kanzure | http://www.vernonreed.com/oldresume.html | 16:53 |
| kanzure | maybe it was for making the LCDs | 16:54 |
| fenn | reading this http://www.vernonreed.com/Writing/papers/visucomp.txt | 16:55 |
| fenn | nope motorola chip MC1468705G2 | 16:56 |
| fenn | oh well | 16:57 |
| kanzure | actlab != medialab | 16:58 |
| kanzure | medialab has http://edboyden.org/ | 16:58 |
| * fenn goes in the corner and cries | 16:58 | |
| fenn | we've gotta get the chip fab cost down | 16:59 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/graphene.html | 17:00 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/semiconductor.html | 17:00 |
| kanzure | I'm still thinking that an alternative computational strategy might be a better idea /or/ just doing large circuits (mm size) | 17:00 |
| kanzure | *mm scale | 17:00 |
| fenn | have you read about fluidics? | 17:00 |
| kanzure | not much | 17:00 |
| kanzure | but a fluid transistor was suggested to me | 17:01 |
| kanzure | by David (Gershenfeld's David) | 17:01 |
| kanzure | he didn't recommend it, just mentioned it | 17:01 |
| kanzure | something about a guy down the hall working on it | 17:01 |
| kanzure | you know, I'd be ok with vacuum tube tech | 17:01 |
| fenn | meaning a liquid phase electronic transistor or an amplifier for moving streams of liquids? | 17:01 |
| kanzure | might be terribly slow but so is waiting for nanotech | 17:01 |
| kanzure | liquid phase electronic transistor | 17:01 |
| kanzure | LIquiFET | 17:02 |
| fenn | ok that's totally different | 17:02 |
| fenn | probably involves nasty chemistry | 17:02 |
| kanzure | so, piping system ? | 17:02 |
| kanzure | oh yes | 17:02 |
| kanzure | very nasty :) | 17:02 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics | 17:02 |
| * kanzure wanted to construct a liquid FET in a jar | 17:02 | |
| fenn | fluidics is used in water fountains for sequencing control http://www.tippettsfountains.com/fluidicsbasics.php?width=1270&height=745 | 17:03 |
| fenn | wish i could see the movies | 17:03 |
| kanzure | construction of the machinery? | 17:03 |
| fenn | just demonstration of the water fountains | 17:04 |
| kanzure | no, I'm asking you for information on what's involved in making these logic gates and such | 17:08 |
| fenn | oh, etched glass usually, since it's used for chemistry (biotech stuff) | 17:08 |
| fenn | but just about anything i'd guess | 17:08 |
| kanzure | hrm? | 17:09 |
| kanzure | you have to shoot the water out though | 17:09 |
| fenn | no, there just has to be flow in the system | 17:10 |
| fenn | i assume it works with gases, so you could use a diffuser to create static pressure | 17:10 |
| kanzure | so there's not a point where the rate of movement of water may impede the actual functionality | 17:10 |
| kanzure | like imagine a hose | 17:10 |
| kanzure | or a shower head | 17:10 |
| kanzure | start turning off the water and the water quickly drops off | 17:11 |
| kanzure | it'd be nice if a plastic film, like the type that listerine comes in, could be used to do optical siganling | 17:28 |
| fenn | it can, but you have to melt it into a lens first :) | 17:37 |
| fenn | you're talking about PETE plastic right? | 17:37 |
| fenn | i was looking at reprap experiments with different plastics all day | 17:38 |
| fenn | PLA looks pretty good but afaik you have to make it yourself | 17:38 |
| fenn | or source it from some industrial place | 17:38 |
| fenn | anyway, the amateur telecope maker crowd has that base covered | 17:39 |
| fenn | there's guys that cast their own glass blanks, grind and lap by hand, build the vacuum coating chamber | 17:40 |
| fenn | its the electronics we can't make from scratch though | 17:40 |
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| ybit | the aging conference is streaming http://www.ustream.tv/channel/immortality-update | 19:13 |
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| fenn | from ed boyden's blog, sound familiar? "5. Make contingency maps. Draw all the things you need to do on a big piece of paper, and find out which things depend on other things. Then, find the things that are not dependent on anything but have the most dependents, and finish them first." | 20:48 |
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| ybit | wow, are you sure that's not a log from #hplusroadmap? | 21:21 |
| ybit | from a log of #hplusroadmap | 21:21 |
| ybit | ** | 21:21 |
| ybit | yep, i'm convinced that wasn't modafinil i received | 21:22 |
| willPow3r | how are you convinced | 22:37 |
| ybit | i had little sleep last night 5hrs, and i've had typing mistakes all day! :P | 23:08 |
| ybit | i really don't know just yet | 23:08 |
| ybit | i'd have to analyze its properties first | 23:09 |
| ybit | it's going to be hard convincing the professors to let me use their equipment to check the purity of my drugs :P | 23:10 |
| * ybit is buying lab equipment soon though, so i may not have to | 23:12 | |
| fenn | what lab equipment and why? | 23:15 |
| fenn | seems like checking the purity of modafinil would be rather arduous | 23:15 |
| fenn | at least it's not a stereo isomer | 23:16 |
| willPow3r | i've gotten it mail order from canada before | 23:23 |
| willPow3r | its not as good as provigil | 23:23 |
| fenn | its the same thing? | 23:23 |
| willPow3r | same active ingredient | 23:24 |
| willPow3r | modafinil | 23:24 |
| fenn | why do you say 'not as good' then? | 23:24 |
| willPow3r | delivery mechanism is probably different | 23:24 |
| willPow3r | the action for provigil is noticeably better | 23:26 |
| willPow3r | imo | 23:26 |
| ybit | was away | 23:57 |
| ybit | i'm willPow3r, it doesn't work the same | 23:57 |
| ybit | i'm doubling my dosage tomorrow hoping to feel something | 23:57 |
| ybit | i'm with willPow3r** | 23:57 |
| ybit | it probably would be tedious work | 23:59 |
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