| --- Day changed Wed Jul 09 2008 | ||
| -!- fenn [n=pz@adsl-76-248-70-246.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 17:53 | |
| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio toolkit: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS perspectives on Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ | 17:53 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Sat Jul 5 23:09:51 2008] | 17:53 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 17:53 | |
| [ fenn ] [ jm|earth] [ nsh ] [ Phreedom_] [ willPow3r] | 17:53 | |
| [ freer] [ kanzure ] [ Overand] [ procto ] [ ybit ] | 17:53 | |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 10 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 10 normal] | 17:53 | |
| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 17:53 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 30 secs | 17:54 | |
| kanzure | Hi fenn. | 18:15 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | I realized that you should probably go meet Damien | 18:18 |
| kanzure | http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~dasulliv/ | 18:18 |
| kanzure | ' | 18:19 |
| kanzure | Thursday night: Science Fiction Discussion Group. We meet for dinner on Thursdays, except once a month when we meet at Borders to discuss some book. I've been pretty regular here too, since... I forget when. It's fun; I get to make people laugh with the right comments, whether because our senses of humor align more or because they're louder than other people I hang with so I notice more. ... but in 2005, I've joined an a capella g | 18:19 |
| kanzure | woo | 18:19 |
| fenn | metacat - cool | 19:09 |
| fenn | how do you know damien? | 19:09 |
| fenn | rawr | 19:15 |
| -!- fenn [n=pz@adsl-76-248-70-246.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 19:16 | |
| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio toolkit: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS perspectives on Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ | 19:16 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Sat Jul 5 23:09:51 2008] | 19:16 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 19:16 | |
| [ fenn ] [ jm|earth] [ nsh ] [ Phreedom_] [ willPow3r] | 19:16 | |
| [ freer] [ kanzure ] [ Overand] [ procto ] [ ybit ] | 19:16 | |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 10 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 10 normal] | 19:16 | |
| kanzure | uh? | 19:16 |
| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 19:16 | |
| kanzure | ah | 19:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: he's also hanged out with the extropy guys before apparently | 19:17 |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 32 secs | 19:17 | |
| kanzure | and the fact that he's anywhere near associated with Hofstadter just goes to show that he might be somebody worth saying hi to | 19:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: I don't mind the links. | 19:17 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://heybryan.org/humancortex.html#stuck I don't want to have to do programming for each and every paper that I come across. All of this information is so inaccessible. :-( | 19:19 |
| kanzure | Maybe the majority of the experiments can be classified by type, and we can just deploy automation to go through those types? | 19:19 |
| kanzure | take the mouse brain studies | 19:19 |
| kanzure | all sorts of interesting lesions to be done, this could be somewhat methodolicalized | 19:19 |
| kanzure | lots of work. would it be worth it? or just go train other people to properly quantify their science? | 19:20 |
| fenn | i think the latter is more feasible | 19:21 |
| kanzure | why would they listen | 19:21 |
| fenn | open standards, yadda yadad | 19:21 |
| kanzure | guess we just need to deploy comp sci people into it | 19:21 |
| kanzure | maybe india has some starving programmers that might understand? | 19:22 |
| fenn | i'm sure they will work for money | 19:22 |
| kanzure | just need to inject enough overflow | 19:22 |
| kanzure | that's kind of cheating I guess :) | 19:22 |
| fenn | my impression of indian programmers are they are mostly trained in the business/groupthink java school of thought | 19:22 |
| kanzure | my first comp sci teacher was an indian and he was trained in java groupthink | 19:23 |
| kanzure | it was quite ironic :) | 19:23 |
| fenn | why is that ironic? | 19:23 |
| kanzure | I think I was the only one who appreciated the humor though | 19:23 |
| fenn | it's just depressing | 19:23 |
| kanzure | heh | 19:23 |
| kanzure | "all those darned indians taking our jobs overseas, somebody should do something!" | 19:24 |
| kanzure | "YEAH! like become a cs teacher!" | 19:24 |
| kanzure | "well, no." | 19:24 |
| kanzure | "guess what." | 19:24 |
| fenn | i'd do it if the students werent so fucking annoying | 19:24 |
| fenn | and the usual evilness of school | 19:25 |
| kanzure | I certainly don't mind teaching either | 19:26 |
| ybit | i wonder if the diybio goup would be interested in http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Check_Yourself_for_Genetic_Abnormalities | 19:26 |
| kanzure | Option 3 would be of interest to them | 19:27 |
| kanzure | showing them where the right primers are would be a good first step | 19:27 |
| kanzure | I mean where the sequences are | 19:27 |
| kanzure | such as in Entrez or something | 19:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: I don't like relying on "hoping that others will appreciate standards" for 'sysadmining the brain' | 19:28 |
| fenn | "The State of California is trying to shut down direct-to-consumer genetic testing services." i wonder what that's about | 19:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: I sent an email about that on diybio.org | 19:30 |
| kanzure | it looks like it might be re: malpractice woes | 19:30 |
| kanzure | how ironic | 19:30 |
| kanzure | "many eyes" for fixing bugs | 19:30 |
| kanzure | but not malpractice | 19:30 |
| kanzure | how could that possibly be the same thing? you're insane. | 19:31 |
| fenn | urgh what's malpractice have to do with it | 19:31 |
| kanzure | no 'official registry' of them maybe | 19:32 |
| kanzure | I don't know, I didn't investigate completely | 19:32 |
| -!- Splicer [n=p@h88n2c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 19:42 | |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_neurofeedback_software | 19:45 |
| kanzure | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BuildCheapEEG | 19:46 |
| kanzure | though I have little interest in EEG | 19:46 |
| kanzure | it's interesting that the wikipedia neurofeedback article is all about EEG | 19:46 |
| kanzure | http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/sw/NeuroServer/ <-- hrm | 19:48 |
| kanzure | 'Neuroserver is a project started by Rudi Cilibrasi to provide a standard EEG server that mediates between the raw EEG devices and all the various EEG applications that the user may wish to run to analyse the incoming EEG data. Data is transmitted using TCP/IP, which means that the EEG data can just as easily pass over a network (or even the internet) as stay on the same machine. Standard EDF is used for header information and for | 19:48 |
| kanzure | sounds like a streaming audio server | 19:49 |
| kanzure | ok, code from the lit would be great, but since we're not going to get that, the alternative is to code up an 'experimentation management system' - since the biomedical equipment you're wired to can be made to do mostly automatic measurements, so if you're spending a few hours doing some common tasks and you want to monitor how the session is going and such; | 20:02 |
| kanzure | then, the information that you stole from the lit can be validated/invalidated or somesuch | 20:02 |
| kanzure | since you were using that as a way to narrow down possibility space (or widen it / get some new instances for parallel approaches in different methodologies) | 20:03 |
| kanzure | I'd be ok programming that sort of thing | 20:04 |
| kanzure | since the 'targets' (like 'psychometric tests', if that has any meaning at all here) are already computationally defined | 20:04 |
| kanzure | many psychometric tests are actually software packages on CD for deployment on laptops to the people the psychologist-researchers are testing anyway | 20:04 |
| kanzure | I kind of rolled my eyes when I learned about that :-/ | 20:04 |
| kanzure | considering some of the software is just "here's a word on the screen, can you press the button quickly enough" | 20:04 |
| kanzure | yarr | 20:04 |
| -!- nsh [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [] | 20:07 | |
| kanzure | so, what, that's just driver programming really | 20:08 |
| -!- Netsplit simmons.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: willPow3r, ybit, Overand, Phreedom_, freer | 20:09 | |
| -!- Overand_ [i=overand@crappy.domain.name] has joined #hplusroadmap | 20:09 | |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: freer | 20:09 | |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: willPow3r, ybit | 20:09 | |
| kanzure | I wonder if I can use anything from mathematics for automated signal analysis and classification of certain functions, and from there devise new spychometric tests automatically | 20:09 |
| fenn | hmm i've been playing a psychometric test called 'sol-deace' lately | 20:15 |
| kanzure | 'In the year 3300, human technology advances drastically when a super computer known as GCS-WT is created after an AI circuit is developed and utilized. GCS-WT's purpose was to ultimately unify every human society using the power of diplomacy, but GCS-WT has other plans: rather than unify mankind, GCS-WT turns societies into a dystopia after becoming an all-powerful dictator who controls all military action as it sees fit and oppr | 20:16 |
| kanzure | Eli? | 20:16 |
| kanzure | is that him? | 20:16 |
| Splicer | Kurzweil? | 20:18 |
| kanzure | No, Eli is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_artificial_intelligence | 20:19 |
| Splicer | There is an old comic from the 60:ies called Magnus, The robot fighter | 20:21 |
| -!- jm|earth [n=jm@p57B9EA9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 20:21 | |
| Splicer | "By the year 4000, humanity has become dependent on robots. This allowed one robot, H8, damaged in a radiation accident, the polrob chief of the civic sector of North Am, to promote this dependency, and gradually impose totalitarian rule in the area under its control. | 20:22 |
| Splicer | " | 20:22 |
| kanzure | maybe eli played one too many video games | 20:22 |
| Splicer | (sounds a bit like 40:ies sci fi) | 20:23 |
| Splicer | has anyone seen the piece of software that's supposed to train short term memory? | 20:25 |
| kanzure | I've seen something somewhere | 20:25 |
| kanzure | perhaps for second-by-second memory you can try typespeed | 20:25 |
| Splicer | ;)... maybe | 20:26 |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 20:28 | |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap | 20:30 | |
| kanzure | now I just need to work on the neural tissueing system | 20:32 |
| kanzure | no way in hell I'll implement weird 'suggested' chem without sandboxing | 20:32 |
| kanzure | I wonder if the Allen Institute would be willing to get me samples of the DNA of those tissues they used in their database | 20:33 |
| Splicer | it's probably difficult to get brain tissue in vitro to behave like braintissue inside a skull. I wonder if someone has done the 'Liver on a chip' thing with brain tissue. | 20:49 |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 20:51 | |
| kanzure | you mean neurons on silicon? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | there's been neurons on silicon scaffolds, yeah | 20:52 |
| Splicer | I don't know exactly how they mimic the environment... one thing is they pump blood through it I think. | 20:55 |
| Splicer | something about that liver grows fine on a plate and seems happy but the genexpressions are all wrong | 20:56 |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap | 21:05 | |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Client Quit] | 21:08 | |
| -!- wrldpc [n=wrldpc@209-150-60-29.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 21:19 | |
| wrldpc | cherrypal? | 21:19 |
| -!- ybit [n=h@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #hplusroadmap | 21:21 | |
| wrldpc | cherrypal.com | 21:22 |
| wrldpc | www.cherrypal.com | 21:22 |
| ybit | ooh, the cherry pops on my birthday! w00t | 21:28 |
| kanzure | ?? | 21:28 |
| ybit | it's what cherrypal.com says atleast | 21:29 |
| ybit | declare your independence? :P | 21:33 |
| ybit | that's silly | 21:33 |
| ybit | anyone speak Русский in here? | 21:34 |
| ybit | no? okay, just wondering | 21:35 |
| kanzure | "My lab is divided into five sectors: artificial intelligence, synthetic technology, biotechnology, electromechanics, top secret stuff. Top secret stuff? Right this way. To your left, you have your basic robot army, alien communicator, atom smasher, teleporter, giant robot, time portal. Ah, yeah, I'm sure you have all of this stuff back at your lab. Ah, yes. This is a personal favorite. By a process of neural infusion, I am | 21:55 |
| -!- Overand_ is now known as Overand | 22:00 | |
| ybit | I am.... | 22:00 |
| ybit | what! | 22:00 |
| ybit | you can't leave me hanging like this! :) | 22:00 |
| kanzure | ? | 22:00 |
| ybit | [2055] <kanzure> "By a process of neural infusion, I am" | 22:01 |
| kanzure | oh | 22:02 |
| kanzure | I am able to harness the collective unconcious, so for a short time I am able to become the smartest person on earth. Not diabolical, but it couldn't hurt." | 22:02 |
| ybit | is that from your book? | 22:03 |
| kanzure | it's from Dexter's Laboratory :-) | 22:03 |
| ybit | ah :P | 22:03 |
| kanzure | I assure you my writing is different. :) | 22:10 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/fiction.html | 22:10 |
| kanzure | the majority of my notes and pages are physically on handwritten pages from my time in prison | 22:11 |
| -!- wrldpc [n=wrldpc@209-150-60-29.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] | 22:12 | |
| ybit | and i'm assuming the smudges are from when you were attempting to write but were getting a good butt raping | 22:21 |
| ybit | sorry, but i couldn't help myself | 22:21 |
| ybit | i found this a few days ago: http://www.linux.com/articles/113917 | 22:26 |
| ybit | i'm about to set it up as soon as skim start cooperating with me | 22:27 |
| ybit | it = few of the progrmas mentioned | 22:27 |
| -!- wrldpc [n=wrldpc@c-76-19-67-145.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:27 | |
| ybit | anyone tried any diybio lately? | 22:28 |
| ybit | the brain map, kanzure, is an excellent idea | 22:28 |
| ybit | i didn't take a good look at the xml files, but how can you tell what's what? | 22:29 |
| ybit | mind sharing how you got the files? | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/quotes.html#dexter | 22:29 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/humancortex/ | 22:29 |
| kanzure | the .pl files are how I acquired the XML files | 22:29 |
| kanzure | the XML files are representative samples of the collection | 22:29 |
| kanzure | for instance, the ABAT.xml file or whatever is an example of their data set for each individual gene | 22:30 |
| kanzure | the file starting with '7' I think is one of the 'specimen' xml files | 22:30 |
| kanzure | and then the other one is an 'imageseries' file | 22:30 |
| kanzure | or something like that :-) | 22:30 |
| ybit | are you going to be writing a script soon to map the information to the google map api, or are you concentrating on extracting even more information? | 22:33 |
| kanzure | my answer depends on whether or not you know about web programming | 22:33 |
| kanzure | http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/ 'This documentation is designed for people familiar with JavaScript programming and object-oriented programming concepts. You should also be familiar with Google Maps from a user's point of view. There are many JavaScript tutorials available on the Web.' | 22:34 |
| kanzure | 'The Google Maps API now adds supports for Mapplets (Maps + Gadgets), which allow you to embed externally hosted applications within Google Maps. These mapplets are run within their own iFrames, allowing you to create "mashups of mashups" and mix code from one site with another for example. ' | 22:34 |
| ybit | wow | 22:35 |
| ybit | i hadn't taken a look at their api | 22:35 |
| ybit | i have exp with (x)html, css, and python; also very little experience with c++, javascript, and haskell | 22:36 |
| ybit | though i've been trained to hate java, i'll end up using it eventually for processing | 22:37 |
| ybit | (processing.org) | 22:37 |
| kanzure | okay | 22:38 |
| kanzure | that's fine then | 22:38 |
| kanzure | yeah, so I'm just doing an overlay with Google Maps maybe | 22:38 |
| kanzure | I'd prefer to not use js/ajax/google-maps, but somebody else already has [but it's nonexistant now] | 22:38 |
| kanzure | so it seems like something maybe worth replicating | 22:38 |
| kanzure | also, homebrewing my own graphical interface will take me back into graphics, drivers, and blitting and such, and I don't know if I want to spend time with that .... although it's less daunting than web browsers. hrm. | 22:39 |
| ybit | my pick is mapping the brain, it's one of the most ambitious coding projects i've come across in awhile | 22:40 |
| kanzure | pick? | 22:41 |
| ybit | yeah, i thought you were trying to decide which to do first :) | 22:42 |
| kanzure | what was the second | 22:42 |
| kanzure | or the alternative | 22:42 |
| ybit | web browsers... i thought you were still working on your tabbing problem :) | 22:42 |
| ybit | way off? | 22:44 |
| kanzure | oh | 22:44 |
| kanzure | no, different subjects | 22:44 |
| kanzure | I was talking about javascript and browsers | 22:44 |
| kanzure | and I just don't like opening/closing browsers or tabs or refreshing to get updates when testing code | 22:44 |
| kanzure | in fact, I'd prefer to never, ever design a web page ever again | 22:44 |
| kanzure | what a sickening practice :) | 22:44 |
| -!- wrldpc [n=wrldpc@c-76-19-67-145.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 22:45 | |
| ybit | hehe | 22:45 |
| kanzure | so the other browser stuff is probably something I should be doing right now | 22:45 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/projects/browsehack/tabtabtab.html | 22:45 |
| ybit | i've been tasked with designing a website and a logo recently | 22:45 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/bookmarking.html at the very, very bottom | 22:45 |
| kanzure | ybit: I'm sorry. | 22:45 |
| kanzure | heh | 22:45 |
| ybit | ty | 22:45 |
| ybit | it isn't fun in the least :P | 22:46 |
| kanzure | ybit: the main problem with the google maps idea is that it's not doing 'much' | 22:48 |
| kanzure | I still need to find a 3D model | 22:48 |
| kanzure | of the brain, and then I might be able to get something slightly interesting ... it's still not functional. | 22:48 |
| ybit | what was the problme with google earth? that it's essentially still 2d? | 22:48 |
| ybit | oh, nm | 22:49 |
| kanzure | I suppose I could make a website with a backend database and various entries for each user mapping out their own brain, as long as they have the I/O peripherals (OpenEEG, or whatever), | 22:49 |
| kanzure | and then they can map their own brain, while also seeing those of others. Though it's not really "seeing" as much as it is ... well. stuff. | 22:49 |
| ybit | now, that's an interesting idea | 22:49 |
| kanzure | but it doesn't *do* anything | 22:49 |
| kanzure | it's a terrible idea | 22:49 |
| ybit | it costs around $400 to get the openeeg equipment | 22:50 |
| kanzure | is that the soundcard version? | 22:50 |
| ybit | not sure | 22:50 |
| ybit | what do you want it to do? a map is that, it only provides information to the user | 22:51 |
| kanzure | usually people use maps to go places | 22:52 |
| kanzure | you can't so easily go somewhere in your head like that | 22:52 |
| ybit | btw... | 22:52 |
| kanzure | hm? :) | 22:52 |
| ybit | do you think the way to a BMI is through cyboging or nanobots | 22:53 |
| kanzure | nanobots, like, cells? | 22:53 |
| ybit | cyborging* | 22:53 |
| ybit | well, i don't know, that's what i was about to ask you :) | 22:54 |
| ybit | what would these nanbots be exactly that are mentioned on wikipedia's "mind uploading" page | 22:54 |
| kanzure | we already have BMIs | 22:54 |
| kanzure | ah | 22:54 |
| kanzure | well, nobody knows, otherwise we would have them methinks | 22:54 |
| ybit | neural-prosthetics from the usc professor... | 22:54 |
| kanzure | there are many | 22:54 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/neuro/ | 22:54 |
| kanzure | but as for mind uploading | 22:54 |
| kanzure | I have a different approach to mind uploading | 22:54 |
| kanzure | first, you have to understand that your current brain incarnation may be fundamentally fucked | 22:55 |
| kanzure | simply because it's not designed for uploading and so on | 22:55 |
| kanzure | but we can fix this to some extent | 22:55 |
| kanzure | perhaps not in your own brain, but certainly one that you build | 22:55 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/buildingbrains.html | 22:55 |
| ybit | from what i can gather there, you are essentially wanting to connect the current brain to network of copies | 22:56 |
| ybit | or maybe not even a copy | 22:56 |
| kanzure | let's take whatever it is that makes our brains interesting and preserve this information | 22:57 |
| kanzure | we know we can grow brains, all of our newbies are born with them | 22:57 |
| kanzure | but what we don't do right now is preserve the specific genetic and environmental factories that end up producing interesting brains that we consider to be "ourselves" to some extent | 22:57 |
| kanzure | now, this isn't uploading obviously | 22:57 |
| ybit | we can grow hearts, i don't see why we can't grow brains, but which substrate is dangerous: the biological tissue of the brain or silicon? | 22:58 |
| kanzure | if we are able to isolate that information and then play around with it with a working model of the brain then supposedly we could simulate it, no? | 22:58 |
| ybit | more dangerous* | 22:58 |
| kanzure | and if we are able to simulate it, or if we are able to 'capture it', then surely we can integrate that "somewhat-youness" into other systems, not just wet brains. and if you're *building* one, why would you want to make the brain just as bad as our current ones? Why not make it plug-and-play compatible, and why not learn the parameters that lead to the growth of the systems that match yours to some extent? | 22:58 |
| ybit | possibly, but how do you connect this new brain to our current one? | 22:58 |
| -!- wrldpc [n=wrldpc@pool-71-174-89-247.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:59 | |
| kanzure | for the "not screwed" brain, you kinda don't | 22:59 |
| kanzure | it's already "you", you just train it or whatever is involved in that | 22:59 |
| kanzure | now, let's say that it does turn into a competent brain at some point down the road | 22:59 |
| kanzure | and so now you have either a simulation of a brain that works and you consider to be you to some extent, | 23:00 |
| kanzure | or it's wired together with neurotransceivers from one region to the next (yikes, lots of neural projections can mess this up) | 23:00 |
| kanzure | so in that case it's already wired to itself, yes? | 23:01 |
| kanzure | what would stop it from being wired to, say, your brain | 23:01 |
| kanzure | so spend half the day with your PFC transmitting data to the fake basal ganglia, for instance | 23:01 |
| kanzure | this will probably not get what you want, | 23:01 |
| kanzure | you're not going to "slide like runny eggs into the new installation" | 23:01 |
| kanzure | which is what most mind uploading advocates want | 23:01 |
| kanzure | you there? | 23:02 |
| ybit | yep | 23:02 |
| ybit | was reading and typing a response :) | 23:02 |
| ybit | are you through? | 23:03 |
| kanzure | sure | 23:03 |
| ybit | that's not a comforting 'sure' :D | 23:03 |
| * ybit thinks you could go on :D | 23:03 | |
| kanzure | yes, I can :) | 23:03 |
| kanzure | but what were you going to say? | 23:04 |
| kanzure | oh shit | 23:04 |
| kanzure | shit shit shit | 23:04 |
| kanzure | all of that SNP data | 23:04 |
| kanzure | human cortex genes | 23:04 |
| * kanzure goes and gets Jong Bahk's SNP data from 23andme | 23:04 | |
| ybit | i was simply pointing out that if you never connect to this new brain, then there isn't the 'carryover' (for lack of b.t.) that most will want, but you had answered that | 23:05 |
| kanzure | where did I put it? | 23:05 |
| kanzure | okay, good | 23:05 |
| kanzure | carryover/runny-eggs, or, in my book I call that 'divergence' | 23:05 |
| kanzure | even if you clone yourself, your clone will not be exact | 23:05 |
| kanzure | biology is not precise like that :) | 23:05 |
| kanzure | lossy compression | 23:06 |
| ybit | i had a brief question and answer session with james clement on facebook and he had an interesting response "There will be lots of possible answers to the multiple-self question - including that we "network" with our identical selves, and if something happens to one of us, the "group mind" merely experiences the loss of a body, but not the loss of a mind (which is redundantly distributed)... Ultimately, uploading will replace cryonics as the best way to | 23:06 |
| ybit | backup yourself in case of unavoidable loss of physical substance..." | 23:06 |
| kanzure | sure, I try to talk with James nightly over jabber | 23:07 |
| ybit | he was a really nice | 23:07 |
| ybit | -a | 23:07 |
| kanzure | I don't know about a 'group mind' though | 23:09 |
| kanzure | I think more along the lines of a brain that can be automatically turned on if I don't sign in via ssh to a server back home within 72 hours | 23:09 |
| ybit | when you speak of BMI, are you referring to such instruments as this one: http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18276/?a=f | 23:09 |
| kanzure | eh | 23:10 |
| kanzure | I dislike EEG | 23:10 |
| kanzure | but sort of | 23:10 |
| ybit | me too | 23:10 |
| kanzure | I prefer hard, physical connections | 23:10 |
| kanzure | or fMRI, if that could be made useful | 23:10 |
| kanzure | with rTMS. etc. | 23:10 |
| ybit | did you ever read rainbows end? | 23:11 |
| kanzure | Vinge? | 23:11 |
| ybit | yep | 23:11 |
| kanzure | eh, I don't think I did | 23:11 |
| kanzure | I remember seeing it for free on the nhttp://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18276/?a=f | 23:11 |
| kanzure | *on the net | 23:11 |
| ybit | it has a good description of the type of interface that would be fantastic to have, though it's not BMI, i don't see any reason why it couldn't be | 23:12 |
| ybit | perhaps, might be able to get a glimpse of what i mean by checking out: http://books.google.com/books?id=SrLwPdBJodMC&dq=Vernor+Vinge&pg=PP1&ots=5Xqm_Po7fS&sig=0ghZtM0LMT9ExtwKmI-4SuAdj9s&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPP1,M1 | 23:13 |
| ybit | books take up a lot of time though, so i can understand if no one has time to read it | 23:14 |
| ybit | i usually stick to wikipedia summaries | 23:14 |
| kanzure | ybit: uh | 23:14 |
| kanzure | http://vrinimi.org/rainbowsend.html | 23:14 |
| kanzure | have fun | 23:14 |
| ybit | haha | 23:14 |
| kanzure | I tried reading it once | 23:15 |
| kanzure | too much talking | 23:15 |
| kanzure | I got bored. | 23:15 |
| ybit | i was getting bored, but i was curious what technology he was going to introduce next | 23:15 |
| kanzure | what was it? | 23:15 |
| ybit | they were able to browse the web using their for of bmi, talk through IM while physically talking to someone else... create extravagant 3d art or whatnot that everyone in class was tuning into through their visors, and a lot of the students stayed home and were in class through in virtual form | 23:18 |
| ybit | they had theme parks setup for those wearing visors | 23:19 |
| kanzure | ah, not much | 23:20 |
| ybit | the theme parks being actual land....... and two social hackers were able to download maps of the piping system for the area they were and overlay the map ontop of the surface they were covering... and i'll quit | 23:21 |
| ybit | yeah, i know | 23:21 |
| kanzure | quit? | 23:21 |
| ybit | but i liked it when i read it :) | 23:21 |
| kanzure | why quit? | 23:21 |
| kanzure | yeah, it's not bad | 23:21 |
| kanzure | it's just also not much | 23:21 |
| kanzure | have you read Neverness yet? | 23:21 |
| ybit | i've heard of it | 23:21 |
| kanzure | giant moonbrains that have thoughts equivalent to an entire civilization at once? etc. | 23:21 |
| kanzure | uh | 23:21 |
| kanzure | f;lkdasdfjkl;asdf;lkj | 23:21 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/Zindell,%20David%20-%20Neverness%20(v1.0).txt | 23:22 |
| kanzure | you want to read it. | 23:22 |
| * kanzure does the Jedi hand-waving thing | 23:22 | |
| kanzure | interesting | 23:23 |
| kanzure | I just did a search for peragwinn, the person who did some formatting changes on that txt file | 23:23 |
| kanzure | there's about five results | 23:23 |
| kanzure | one of them is fenn. | 23:23 |
| kanzure | http://fennetic.net/pub/bookwarez/Science%20Fiction%20and%20Fantasy%2013130%20update%203/Daniel%20da%20Cruz%20-%20Texas%20Trilogy%2002%20-%20Texas%20on%20the%20Rocks.pdf | 23:23 |
| kanzure | ah, that's why, the scifi torrent | 23:23 |
| kanzure | oh, also fenn.dyndns.org | 23:23 |
| ybit | hmm.. torrent link maybe? | 23:24 |
| ybit | n/m | 23:25 |
| ybit | http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/ebooks/Zindell,%20David%20-%20Neverness%20(v1.0).txt | 23:25 |
| kanzure | go read Neverness please :) | 23:25 |
| kanzure | heh | 23:25 |
| kanzure | I linked to it above btw | 23:25 |
| ybit | dude, you didn't have to do the jedi hadnwaving. you had me at moonbrain :) | 23:26 |
| ybit | man, i just keep bombing one after the next tonight | 23:27 |
| kanzure | bombing? | 23:27 |
| ybit | my jokes.. | 23:27 |
| kanzure | oh, had me at the moon | 23:28 |
| kanzure | right | 23:28 |
| ybit | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bombing ,option 6 | 23:28 |
| ybit | s/option/def. | 23:28 |
| ybit | anyone working on growing a brain? | 23:32 |
| ybit | wait, disregard that Q | 23:32 |
| kanzure | not that I know of | 23:32 |
| ybit | i need to go run and grab some coffee | 23:33 |
| kanzure | 'Recent development on computer aided tissue engineering—a review - Get this article - all 7 versions »' | 23:34 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:34 |
| ybit | how do you connect the simulations to the brain? | 23:43 |
| ybit | how do you propose to the transfer to the simulated self? | 23:44 |
| * ybit needs sleep and more so than coffee | 23:45 | |
| kanzure | mm | 23:45 |
| ybit | sorry about the questions, but i haven't studied up enough on the brain | 23:45 |
| kanzure | the second question needs to be reworded | 23:45 |
| ybit | -to | 23:45 |
| kanzure | first question, the same damn way you connect two brains together with BMI | 23:45 |
| kanzure | 'the transfer to the simulated self' - what do you mean by this? | 23:45 |
| ybit | how do you transfer the mind to the new mind* | 23:46 |
| kanzure | it doesn't work like that, it's not "mind uploading" as people traditionally want it to be | 23:46 |
| ybit | sure, i've heard people complain of the term | 23:47 |
| kanzure | so it'll probably involve some implants (typical MEAs) or maybe rTMS/fMRI or something to get some neurofeedback and make sure that the new-brain is functioning correctly, or whatever else :) | 23:47 |
| kanzure | and it will involve some gene sequencing | 23:48 |
| * kanzure still needs to go find Jong Bahk's SNP data. | 23:48 | |
| kanzure | I think it's in the biotech toolkit git repo actually :) | 23:48 |
| ybit | well, you've given me enough to read tonight, as always | 23:51 |
| kanzure | so you remember your spark of an idea | 23:51 |
| kanzure | when I mentioned google maps + users on a website | 23:51 |
| kanzure | and then being able to see each other's data | 23:51 |
| kanzure | ok, now include the information from 23andme | 23:52 |
| * ybit bows. こんにちわ | 23:52 | |
| kanzure | japanese? | 23:52 |
| ybit | indeed | 23:52 |
| -!- Phreedom_ [n=freedom@195.216.211.159] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:52 | |
| ybit | grr | 23:53 |
| ybit | well, atleast scim is working even though i said the wrong word :P | 23:53 |
| ybit | what's up Phreedom_ :) | 23:53 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!