| --- Day changed Tue Jul 15 2008 | ||
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| -!- nsh changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: heybryan server will be down as of 2008-07-12 | Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio tools: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS re: Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ ¦ kanzure: downfor | 03:32 | |
| nsh | pft | 03:32 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- nsh changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: heybryan server will be down as of 2008-07-12 | Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio tools: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS re: Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ | 03:32 | |
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| Hrpuffnstuf | morning | 03:55 |
| Hrpuffnstuf | damn angsto | 03:56 |
| Hrpuffnstuf | site is still down huh | 03:56 |
| -!- Hrpuffnstuf is now known as Joke_Phucker | 04:04 | |
| -!- Joke_Phucker is now known as God_Helmet | 04:05 | |
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| fenn | heh god helmet | 04:13 |
| God_Helmet | :D | 04:15 |
| God_Helmet | seen god lately? | 04:15 |
| fenn | "I see no god up here." | 04:20 |
| God_Helmet | figured | 04:20 |
| God_Helmet | just thought i would check | 04:20 |
| God_Helmet | wish site was up- so much material i had not gone through yet | 04:24 |
| * fenn suggests wikipedia | 04:25 | |
| God_Helmet | ya | 04:25 |
| fenn | have you taken a look at openfarmtech.org? | 04:27 |
| God_Helmet | not yet sir | 04:43 |
| God_Helmet | synopsis? | 04:43 |
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| kanzure | Heh. | 04:54 |
| kanzure | Hey God_Helmet. | 04:54 |
| kanzure | So the server should be back up from now on. :-) | 04:54 |
| God_Helmet | yipee | 04:54 |
| God_Helmet | let me know if you need help straightened that fucker out | 04:54 |
| kanzure | I got smart and made a guess -- I guessed that their user registration scheme was really just to keep track of peoples, not so much to sort people out from one another. So I now have two internet access accounts. | 04:54 |
| God_Helmet | oh good | 04:55 |
| God_Helmet | i figured out i could hack the state camera system today- BUT I AM NOT GOING TO | 04:55 |
| kanzure | so I have two IPs mapped to a dorm room | 04:55 |
| God_Helmet | (just for our overlords to know) | 04:55 |
| kanzure | this may or may not be the definition of geek itself | 04:55 |
| God_Helmet | kanzure i have resources dude | 04:55 |
| * nsh waves | 04:55 | |
| nsh | kanzure, the site was http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com | 04:56 |
| nsh | (down for everyone or just me [?]) | 04:56 |
| God_Helmet | we should move this stuf, i mean you can retain root or whatever- but i really can pop it up some where reliable | 04:56 |
| kanzure | God_Helmet: feel free to copy | 04:56 |
| God_Helmet | nsh lol | 04:56 |
| kanzure | especially http://heybryan.org/biotech.git | 04:56 |
| God_Helmet | i can wget everything | 04:56 |
| kanzure | go ahead :-) I'm on an 8 MB/sec connection now. | 04:56 |
| God_Helmet | in a couple hours when i am work | 04:56 |
| nsh | kanzure, you should make periodic sitedumps to save tcp overhead anyway | 04:56 |
| God_Helmet | DAMN YOU insomnia | 04:56 |
| nsh | good netizenship | 04:57 |
| God_Helmet | or do a balancing apache setup | 04:57 |
| kanzure | nsh: site dumps to where? | 04:57 |
| God_Helmet | damn so many ideas, so little time | 04:57 |
| God_Helmet | that would be a great open source utility to have | 04:58 |
| kanzure | uhm | 04:58 |
| kanzure | so | 04:58 |
| kanzure | singinst wants me | 04:59 |
| nsh | like a crontab to tarball up everything accessible and dump to $http_root/sitedump/date.tar.bz or whatever | 04:59 |
| kanzure | nsh: that's a couple gigabytes of space the hdd doesn't have | 04:59 |
| kanzure | but I'll work on that | 04:59 |
| nsh | ah, fair enough | 04:59 |
| kanzure | I certainly have backups | 04:59 |
| God_Helmet | yah | 04:59 |
| kanzure | though never, it seems, of the latest and greatest | 04:59 |
| kanzure | did I mention SIAI wants me | 05:00 |
| God_Helmet | i hate people who dont. I mean come on, I love hubris and sloth as much as the next person, but to not have things backed up is just dumb | 05:00 |
| kanzure | God_Helmet: welcome to #hplusroadmap | 05:00 |
| kanzure | we'd all like a backup of the planet | 05:01 |
| God_Helmet | singinst and siai both want you? | 05:01 |
| God_Helmet | what are they? | 05:01 |
| kanzure | same thing | 05:01 |
| kanzure | http://singinst.org/ | 05:01 |
| God_Helmet | and be careful | 05:01 |
| God_Helmet | great young wizards often find themselves building the infrastructure of the authoritarians | 05:01 |
| God_Helmet | just sayin | 05:02 |
| kanzure | it turns out they want to install a repository | 05:02 |
| kanzure | it takes about five minutes | 05:02 |
| kanzure | but there's a flight up to the Bay Area in it for me | 05:02 |
| kanzure | huh | 05:04 |
| kanzure | 5 subscribers to my feed from Google Reader | 05:05 |
| fenn | they're going to fly you out to setup a git repo? | 05:06 |
| kanzure | yep | 05:06 |
| kanzure | oh, | 05:06 |
| kanzure | plus it has to have the word Bayesian on it | 05:06 |
| fenn | now i officially hate SIAI | 05:06 |
| kanzure | but whatever | 05:06 |
| kanzure | I thought SIAI was made up of programmers and stuff | 05:06 |
| kanzure | but apparently not | 05:06 |
| fenn | the whole point is that it's easy to do | 05:07 |
| kanzure | fenn: I would be surprised at this point if they understand the command line mentality | 05:07 |
| kanzure | on the other hand, if they were bright enough to ask the right question, properly referencing the concept of a repository and outlining the simple features, then maybe not? | 05:08 |
| God_Helmet | kanzure- unfortunately i find that more and more in my professional career | 05:09 |
| God_Helmet | the true gems are few and far between, but man the ones who get it- omfg | 05:09 |
| God_Helmet | going to try to get a couple hours of sleep before work. :< nite | 05:10 |
| kanzure | God_Helmet: These are the guys that took the funding of Paypal's cofounder for 'ai research' | 05:10 |
| kanzure | same guy that funded facebook | 05:10 |
| God_Helmet | oh and not sure why but this picture makes me happy-> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gwenie/2651265613/sizes/l/ | 05:11 |
| God_Helmet | i thought facebook had a "fishy" funding source or something | 05:11 |
| kanzure | ? | 05:11 |
| God_Helmet | if you get me | 05:11 |
| God_Helmet | (random letter agency) | 05:11 |
| kanzure | eh | 05:12 |
| nsh | SIAI == ? | 05:12 |
| nsh | ah | 05:13 |
| nsh | as i guessed | 05:13 |
| nsh | 'night, God_Helmet | 05:14 |
| nsh | these guys (SIAI) seem a little overobsessed with the 'safety' aspect of AI | 05:18 |
| kanzure | that's their hole gig | 05:18 |
| kanzure | whole | 05:18 |
| kanzure | but it's also a hole | 05:18 |
| nsh | i think they read too many scary stories about rampant ais or something | 05:18 |
| nsh | it's sophomoric | 05:18 |
| kanzure | I think their answer to that would be "they will be able to make bigger rockets and chase you forever" | 05:19 |
| * nsh smiles | 05:19 | |
| kanzure | and while it's true some radically evil ai might opt to do that, not trying is a death sentence, and focusing only on enslaving ai as a way to make sure that does not happen? yawn | 05:19 |
| nsh | gotta check on ethanol precipitation, brb | 05:19 |
| nsh | (damn obsolete sequencing methods :-/) | 05:19 |
| kanzure | we added a phenol/ethanol step today to our transcription stains | 05:20 |
| kanzure | we were getting streaking :-/ | 05:20 |
| kanzure | smearing, rather | 05:20 |
| kanzure | uh, yesterday I guess | 05:20 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 05:20 | |
| nsh | mmm, smearing is a chore | 05:23 |
| fenn | nsh what are you sequencing? | 05:24 |
| nsh | reporter constructs | 05:24 |
| nsh | you guys still thinking/working on PCR hacking? | 05:36 |
| * nsh always interested in any new developments/thoughts | 05:36 | |
| fenn | not i.. PCR is dead simple, can't see how it would get any simpler/better than idaho scientific's thermocycler | 06:00 |
| fenn | essentially a lightbulb, CPU fan, temp sensor, and microcontroller | 06:01 |
| fenn | you load glass capillary tubing with your reaction mix, then seal the ends with a bunsen burner and stick it in | 06:02 |
| nsh | yeah, one of those "why the fuck didn't i think of that?" idea | 06:15 |
| nsh | but i meant specifically the enzyme itself, rather than the reaction | 06:15 |
| nsh | or, exploiting side-effects of the enzymes operation to perform 'incidental' sequencing during pcr amplification | 06:16 |
| nsh | *enzyme's | 06:16 |
| nsh | ok, so evolution tends towards economy, but it's hard to eliminate all perturbations of a process | 06:16 |
| nsh | polymerase may give out a signature of some kind as it operates | 06:17 |
| nsh | or may be alterered to leave one | 06:19 |
| fenn | nsh: http://www.pacificbiosciences.com/ watch the "demo" | 06:37 |
| nsh | i think i may have been just reading about that | 06:58 |
| nsh | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Molecule_Real_Time_Sequencing | 06:58 |
| * nsh hates marketing :-/ | 06:59 | |
| nsh | who talks like that... | 06:59 |
| nsh | problem is that the nanophonotonics is probably: (a) proprietary (b) not-cheap (where cheap means accessible to the developing world) | 07:01 |
| nsh | that said, it's very nice technology! | 07:02 |
| nsh | they've also advanced their commercialisation date | 07:02 |
| nsh | which is nice | 07:02 |
| nsh | original projections were 2012-13 iirc | 07:02 |
| nsh | the inner-space-race is on! | 07:03 |
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| fenn | i directed you to the company site because wikipedia's diagram sucks | 07:10 |
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| fenn | proprietary indeed, but i dont see why it should be expensive (besides artificial scarcity) | 07:12 |
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| nsh | information property is the epitome of artifical scarcity :-) | 07:48 |
| nsh | it's not enough that the developed world hoards all the physical resources, which can't be cheaply replicated, as well as all the monitary capital, which in some manner of speak eventually correspondends to physical resources, labour, or other finite product, but how can we really justify hoarding what can be freely given to the poor at no loss to outselves | 07:53 |
| nsh | disgusting | 07:53 |
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| kanzure | transhuman > transexual? :p | 11:33 |
| nsh | feelin' rested? | 11:39 |
| kanzure | heh | 12:04 |
| kanzure | I don't know why I bother going into the lab :) | 12:07 |
| kanzure | it's a bunch of sitting around doing nothing | 12:07 |
| kanzure | since the other two newbies do all of the work and mingle around | 12:07 |
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| kanzure | /topic Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio tools: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS re: Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ | 13:39 |
| kanzure | hm | 13:39 |
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| Democritus | whoops | 13:51 |
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| Democritus | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap | 13:53 |
| Democritus | 14 social can be as important as any of the aforementioned technologies systems on that page | 13:53 |
| Democritus | but of course I WOULD say that | 13:53 |
| Democritus | just that the page talks about realities/technologies and makes assumptions of things we "should" be doing. the social fabric of that is as important- as people are governed by themselves first - but only under a social-impact umbrella | 13:54 |
| Democritus | and it should be handled in as a scientific way as the previous statements. | 13:56 |
| Democritus | of course | 13:56 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:07 | |
| Democritus | kanzure- well - just read a bunch more. the h plus project while having specific goals- does sync up what I was doing earlier- but from a social perspective | 14:07 |
| Democritus | very similar end goals in mind however | 14:07 |
| nsh | people may be governed by themselves, but for the greater part, who thoseselves are is governed by the culture they absorb | 14:08 |
| Democritus | right | 14:08 |
| Democritus | especially considering much of the personality coding and id/ego/superego creation is done at such an early age- where you are in a protected and often foul social group (the nuke family), whereas you just do not have the proper information to set a tower | 14:09 |
| Democritus | and most social structures are tower-based knowledge systems- not web/wiki/FOSS | 14:09 |
| nsh | but, we appear to be rapidly approaching the time when the pace of change in culture, at least in its subcliques and peripheries is nearing the generational gap | 14:09 |
| Democritus | hopefully the end of the tower-people is coming | 14:10 |
| * nsh nods | 14:10 | |
| Democritus | (doubtful- those fuckers are entrenched) | 14:10 |
| nsh | it's true: the socius has survived many threats and incorporated much ability to withstand them | 14:10 |
| Democritus | THE AUTHORITY SAYS: is so freaking powerful | 14:10 |
| nsh | but the nature of the current situation may be radically different to previous upheavals | 14:10 |
| Democritus | nsh- yesh | 14:11 |
| Democritus | no i am not drunk | 14:11 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:11 | |
| nsh | but, there is perhaps one anchor that will prove most resiliant of all: language | 14:12 |
| Democritus | going all chomsky on us? | 14:12 |
| Democritus | :D | 14:12 |
| Democritus | explain what you mean though | 14:12 |
| Democritus | (would like to hear) | 14:12 |
| nsh | meh :-) i haven't read chomsky, more like supir-whorf | 14:13 |
| nsh | the catagories-of-thought and other ontological/epistemological forcing-functions implicit in the subconscious patterns laid out during language-aquisition | 14:13 |
| Democritus | absorbing that | 14:14 |
| nsh | ..predispose the mind in certain ways | 14:14 |
| Democritus | oh yeah | 14:14 |
| Democritus | absolutely | 14:14 |
| nsh | so if science is the evaporation of the impossible, progress must be accumulation of the concievable | 14:14 |
| Democritus | which means people can be built that are NOT equipped for accurately interpretting reality | 14:15 |
| nsh | and certain things are far harder to concieve because of the way we talk | 14:15 |
| nsh | and its effects on the way we thing | 14:15 |
| Democritus | tons of ideas or concepts not supported by the English language anyway | 14:15 |
| Democritus | cant speak for the others, cept perl,php,COBOL, etc | 14:15 |
| nsh | well, yeah, where accurately is a consequence of consensuation | 14:15 |
| * nsh nods | 14:15 | |
| nsh | but there are various projects, <s>loglan</s> lojban, for instance | 14:16 |
| Democritus | human made forces have very little concept language in english | 14:16 |
| Democritus | "human made forces" - like "collective-will" | 14:16 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:16 | |
| Democritus | "social normalization" | 14:16 |
| nsh | it's a kind of conceptual blindspot | 14:17 |
| Democritus | specialists thats why | 14:17 |
| Democritus | i blame it all on the specialists | 14:17 |
| nsh | right | 14:17 |
| Democritus | :D | 14:17 |
| Democritus | farmers | 14:17 |
| nsh | there was a guy, i forget his name, spanish, middle-ages | 14:17 |
| Democritus | you can probably predict what i am going to say next :D | 14:17 |
| Democritus | lot of those guys | 14:17 |
| nsh | who is apocryphally the last person ever to have been roughly at the forefront of all human knowledge | 14:17 |
| Democritus | haha- | 14:18 |
| Democritus | gotcha | 14:18 |
| nsh | of course, that would have been impossible at any time, but the point remains | 14:18 |
| nsh | we are on the path to insect-socialisation | 14:18 |
| nsh | but i would argue that we haven't yet reached the point of no return | 14:18 |
| nsh | the era of the everyman, to use a popular victorian term, has not yet drawn to a close | 14:18 |
| Democritus | and since social structure is what it is- invididual wizard peddlers of science and/or political/ economic pull - keeps the specialists in little cages | 14:18 |
| nsh | right | 14:19 |
| nsh | the expert is the person who knows more and more about less and less | 14:19 |
| nsh | until they know absolutely everything about absolutely nothing | 14:19 |
| Democritus | then they gain power from their work | 14:19 |
| Democritus | then they think they know how a social structure works | 14:19 |
| Democritus | :/ | 14:19 |
| nsh | it's a big-fish:small-pond effect | 14:19 |
| Democritus | hahaha | 14:20 |
| nsh | but understanding might not necessarily be private forever | 14:20 |
| nsh | it's hard to say, it's one of those perenially almost-possible things | 14:20 |
| Democritus | well- me being me- I see it a bit "different" then most- sounds like you are not alien to what i am saying though. I would go as far as say - the races' decision to huddle into farming communities and forgo the social structure that evolved over millions of years which was a tribal system, was a BAD social evolutionary fork (Bad of course being garbage- lets say "dead end") | 14:21 |
| * nsh largely agrees | 14:21 | |
| Democritus | again, loosely- not enough freaking data | 14:22 |
| Democritus | and like you said- it is like the entire world is myopic on this type of thinking | 14:22 |
| nsh | i suspect it was actually a loss-of-function species-wide 'mutation' | 14:22 |
| nsh | probably caused by some disaster (ice-age, etc.) | 14:22 |
| Democritus | because it crosses boundries reserved for "sacred"institutions of the state:family:church | 14:22 |
| nsh | there are various clues scattered about that we may have not been so individual sometime in the not so distant past (10,000 years, at a guess) | 14:23 |
| nsh | when i say not so individual, i mean not islands of subjectivity as we currently are | 14:23 |
| Democritus | a cellular tribal system- i believe that needs to go hand in hand with this kind of scientific experimentation (what is being suggested here), and for that too occur, a sterile experimental environment is needed to host said "experimental societal" design | 14:24 |
| Democritus | agreed | 14:24 |
| Democritus | its funny- the clues are everywhere- | 14:24 |
| * nsh nods | 14:24 | |
| Democritus | i pointed out to some that the Bible was written by Satan | 14:24 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:24 | |
| Democritus | Caine/Abel | 14:24 |
| Democritus | Farmer/Nomad- God clearly favors Abel | 14:24 |
| Democritus | we are all decendants of Caine | 14:25 |
| Democritus | Caine wrote the history book | 14:25 |
| nsh | indeed | 14:25 |
| nsh | you read Ishmael, i guess? | 14:25 |
| Democritus | actually no- but after saying that to someone else they said same thing | 14:25 |
| Democritus | guess i should | 14:25 |
| nsh | not a bad book | 14:25 |
| Democritus | he told me it was pretty close to that "wild hypothesis" | 14:25 |
| * nsh nods | 14:25 | |
| nsh | there was something else i was reminded of by the 'Satan wrote the bible' line, but i can't place it | 14:26 |
| Democritus | that is the intelligent gorilla one right? | 14:26 |
| nsh | right | 14:26 |
| nsh | Daniel Quinn | 14:26 |
| nsh | it's on undernet#bookz iirc | 14:26 |
| nsh | likely in some library torrent too | 14:26 |
| Democritus | think he gave me his copy | 14:27 |
| nsh | ah :-) | 14:27 |
| Democritus | i am waiting for him to read Evolution by Stephen Baxter | 14:27 |
| Democritus | :D | 14:27 |
| Democritus | my copy | 14:27 |
| * nsh looks up | 14:27 | |
| Democritus | fucking depressing ass book | 14:27 |
| nsh | i'll tell you another nice one, while i remember it: Mount Analogue | 14:27 |
| nsh | it's unfinished, but that almost adds to it | 14:27 |
| Democritus | that books is appropriate for this room | 14:27 |
| Democritus | Baxter concludes : Fuck Evolution | 14:28 |
| Democritus | well not in so many words | 14:28 |
| * nsh chuckles | 14:28 | |
| Democritus | made a note | 14:28 |
| Democritus | sent | 14:28 |
| * nsh ponders | 14:29 | |
| Democritus | what was the story where the guy talked about it being an evolutionary advantage to cooperate? | 14:30 |
| Democritus | think it was in a movie | 14:30 |
| Democritus | talked about guys picking up chicks | 14:30 |
| nsh | Dawkins talks about it a lot | 14:30 |
| Democritus | although- i thought when i heard my friend say it "duhhhhh" | 14:30 |
| Democritus | a beautiful mind? | 14:30 |
| nsh | as does, what's his name, Edward Wilson | 14:30 |
| Democritus | yeah it was that guy. | 14:30 |
| nsh | ah, right | 14:30 |
| Democritus | but still | 14:30 |
| nsh | but the scene in beautiful mind was about game theory | 14:31 |
| Democritus | never saw that movie- but if people think that is a touch of brilliance- then shit... | 14:31 |
| Democritus | ah- maybe he misrepresented it | 14:31 |
| nsh | john nash says to the guys he's drinking with to go for the plain girl, not all hit on the hot one | 14:31 |
| Democritus | right right | 14:31 |
| Democritus | good plan- i remember that- | 14:31 |
| nsh | then the total reward function is maximised as both girls fawn | 14:31 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:31 | |
| Democritus | absolutely- now the real question is why society is not like that | 14:32 |
| Democritus | en masse | 14:32 |
| nsh | well, you've heard of the prisoner's dilemma? | 14:32 |
| Democritus | which of course the answer is "monkey brains" | 14:32 |
| Democritus | yeah | 14:32 |
| nsh | so, lack of trust makes us go for the safer option if the other person betrays | 14:32 |
| nsh | optimum strategy is tit-for-tat, which is pretty good approximation for how humans act | 14:33 |
| Democritus | right- but that is where the overall social structure becomes so important | 14:33 |
| * nsh nods | 14:33 | |
| Democritus | i have no idea- the tribal decendants had no idea what kind of hornets nest they were kicking | 14:33 |
| Democritus | nor is there some "central evil force" in the world | 14:33 |
| nsh | well.. | 14:34 |
| Democritus | just a natural effect of basing a social structure off unbridling competition of resources | 14:34 |
| nsh | there is the projection of the negative elements in the human psyche | 14:34 |
| Democritus | yeah- i know | 14:34 |
| nsh | which is what i think was reified into evil as a concept | 14:34 |
| Democritus | agreed | 14:34 |
| Democritus | and there most likely are powerful meglamaniacs pulling strings | 14:34 |
| nsh | puppets pulling strings :-) | 14:34 |
| nsh | you keep following the twine | 14:34 |
| Democritus | but if not them- some other powerful meglamaniac- so they as an individual are not important - it is the role- or programming template that maintains system integrity | 14:34 |
| nsh | but never see the puppeteer | 14:35 |
| Democritus | but- the equation demands the role | 14:35 |
| nsh | right, another forcing function | 14:35 |
| nsh | the role is created, the system abhors its emptiness | 14:35 |
| nsh | it will inevitably get filled | 14:35 |
| nsh | *its vacancy | 14:35 |
| nsh | i notice it all the time in social settings | 14:36 |
| nsh | the interface between people will force a certain pattern of roles | 14:36 |
| nsh | to which the people will gravitate | 14:36 |
| Democritus | yessir | 14:36 |
| Democritus | which is why "armed revolution" makes me laugh | 14:36 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:36 | |
| Democritus | or any "revolution" really- come on- the economic and social forces are not being changed | 14:36 |
| nsh | right | 14:36 |
| Democritus | just who is running the show- which then "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" | 14:37 |
| nsh | just a perturbation, the same attractor is active | 14:37 |
| nsh | the orbit will be ofset a little, but eventually will return to the same | 14:37 |
| Democritus | cause it is a motherfucking program- and i dont appreciate it | 14:37 |
| Democritus | i expected more | 14:37 |
| Democritus | :D | 14:37 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:37 | |
| nsh | "it's the economy, stupid" | 14:37 |
| nsh | -- plaque above a former president's desk | 14:37 |
| Democritus | good call | 14:38 |
| Democritus | woman in this building where i work- see her all the time- very preened | 14:38 |
| Democritus | 50ish- | 14:38 |
| nsh | exchange of values maintains the integrity of the system | 14:38 |
| nsh | mmhmm | 14:38 |
| Democritus | finally talk to her in elevator one day | 14:38 |
| Democritus | "what do you do?" i ask "Marketing!" | 14:38 |
| Democritus | i swear the only thing i could say was "huh...." | 14:38 |
| * nsh chuckles | 14:39 | |
| Democritus | then started looking for the door to open | 14:39 |
| nsh | for a dreadful moment there i thought you were the one in marketing | 14:39 |
| Democritus | she was apparently offended by my attitude- and as i was leaving | 14:39 |
| nsh | i was about to take a shower | 14:39 |
| Democritus | this demon from hell | 14:39 |
| Democritus | 0_0 | 14:39 |
| Democritus | she actually says- as the door is closing | 14:39 |
| nsh | ;-) | 14:39 |
| Democritus | "Makes the world go around ya know!" | 14:39 |
| Democritus | in that perky marketing voice | 14:39 |
| nsh | haha | 14:39 |
| Democritus | yes bitch i do know | 14:39 |
| nsh | and the world is rolling downhill | 14:40 |
| Democritus | so when you watch the news and complain about kids getting their heads cut off and used as soccer balls- | 14:40 |
| Democritus | let me remind you who is responsible for making the world go around | 14:40 |
| nsh | indeed | 14:40 |
| Democritus | ever see Bill Hicks on this? | 14:40 |
| Democritus | it is so fucking perfect | 14:40 |
| nsh | i was gonna sic him on you actually | 14:40 |
| nsh | til i realised she was the marketdroid | 14:40 |
| nsh | maybe my favourite act | 14:41 |
| nsh | of all stand-up | 14:41 |
| Democritus | hahaha- "Anybody here in Marketing? if so, Kill yourself, no this is not a joke, kill yourself..." | 14:41 |
| Democritus | yeah | 14:41 |
| nsh | i can't wait until bluetooth is ubiquitous | 14:41 |
| Democritus | you fucking lie and manipulate others for profit - kill yourself | 14:41 |
| nsh | i'm going to leave devices that hack into the headsets | 14:41 |
| nsh | and play that bit | 14:41 |
| nsh | and i'ma leave | 14:41 |
| nsh | 'em EVERYWHERE | 14:41 |
| Democritus | hahaha | 14:42 |
| nsh | that would be great culture-jamming | 14:42 |
| nsh | btw, if you've never been there: culture-jamming encyclopedia is a great place to spend a night | 14:42 |
| Democritus | i would say I figured out a major video survalliance infrastructure is completely vulnerable | 14:42 |
| Democritus | but i dont think i will say so | 14:42 |
| Democritus | just something i happened to notice | 14:42 |
| nsh | a lot of the outlinks will be dead now, but still lots of great material | 14:43 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:43 | |
| Democritus | but once you figure out how the program works- it is not hard anyway | 14:43 |
| nsh | did you read they're suing a university to prevent publication of how a certain rfid smart-card was hacked | 14:43 |
| Democritus | the program is about looks- you do not have to have content in most cases- but appear to be the part- if you can do that- being the part is not necessary | 14:43 |
| nsh | the one used on the london underground | 14:43 |
| Democritus | social hacking | 14:43 |
| * nsh nods | 14:44 | |
| Democritus | dammit | 14:44 |
| Democritus | the publication is still out there though right? | 14:44 |
| nsh | it'll just get out even more | 14:44 |
| nsh | spect so | 14:44 |
| Democritus | right | 14:44 |
| nsh | probably still 0- atm | 14:44 |
| nsh | but someone'll torrent it, etc. | 14:44 |
| nsh | funny how quick people forgot the DeCSS debacle | 14:45 |
| nsh | (that is, the lesson of it: you can't make an idea illegal) | 14:45 |
| nsh | people will apply reductio-ad-absurdum | 14:45 |
| Democritus | good | 14:45 |
| nsh | there were DeCSS haikus ffs | 14:45 |
| nsh | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ | 14:46 |
| Democritus | lol | 14:46 |
| Democritus | remember that | 14:46 |
| * nsh brb | 14:46 | |
| Democritus | http://www.perlguy.com/contest.html | 14:47 |
| Democritus | perl poetry | 14:47 |
| Democritus | :P | 14:47 |
| nsh | nice | 14:48 |
| Democritus | Perl Haiku of course too | 14:49 |
| nsh | you know, while i was taking a shit, for the first time ever, i figured out a reason to be glab about the massive commercialisation of the internet | 14:50 |
| nsh | it's possibly the only reason it hasn't been shut down | 14:50 |
| nsh | *glad | 14:51 |
| Democritus | yeah, but it being recorded bothers me | 14:51 |
| Democritus | NOT THE DATA | 14:51 |
| Democritus | the patterns | 14:51 |
| * nsh nods | 14:51 | |
| nsh | i don't mind the patterns being recorded so much as who has access to them | 14:51 |
| Democritus | all the damn specialists will see is "OH GREAT ANOTHER WAY TO CONTROL" | 14:51 |
| nsh | yep | 14:51 |
| Democritus | actually they wont | 14:51 |
| Democritus | they will be chopped up into little pieces- each only doing a little harm | 14:52 |
| Democritus | :D | 14:52 |
| * nsh smiles | 14:52 | |
| Democritus | "i didnt invent the atomic bomb, i just had to make the 3rd washer fit right" | 14:52 |
| Democritus | know what i mean? | 14:52 |
| nsh | oh yeah | 14:52 |
| nsh | they used to do it with capital punishment | 14:52 |
| nsh | 7 buttons that might turn on the volts | 14:52 |
| Democritus | well- the information being collected from internet traffic- is perhaps some of the most valuable information on the planet- | 14:52 |
| Democritus | if you had an unlimited budget to analyse the data- what could you do? | 14:53 |
| nsh | or 5 levers that remove the plank under the noose | 14:53 |
| Democritus | oh yeah | 14:53 |
| Democritus | remember that | 14:53 |
| Democritus | so- lets take what we know about both social and other types of network systems | 14:53 |
| Democritus | it was pointed out you can remove like 5 people from Holywood and 6degrees to Kevin Bacon becomes like 14 degrees | 14:54 |
| nsh | right | 14:54 |
| nsh | small-world networks | 14:54 |
| Democritus | having communication information recorded, plotted charted and gridded- you see the hubs | 14:54 |
| nsh | always a few critical nodes | 14:54 |
| * nsh nods | 14:54 | |
| Democritus | you dont like the way they are moving the social fabric | 14:54 |
| Democritus | just take out the hub | 14:54 |
| Democritus | you can stop a movement of millions with 100 such moves | 14:55 |
| Democritus | theoretically | 14:55 |
| nsh | i don't doubt | 14:55 |
| nsh | but my optimistic side would say that for each hydra-hub lopped off | 14:55 |
| nsh | the network would get a little more resilient in growing the next | 14:55 |
| Democritus | well- people who are specialists are controlling this- and are going to do what they always do- only look at the issue with their 7yr old nuke family deviate specialist myopia | 14:56 |
| nsh | right | 14:56 |
| Democritus | good point | 14:56 |
| Democritus | i designed a non authoritarian super cluster | 14:56 |
| Democritus | i think it would work | 14:56 |
| Democritus | insert people and/or computers into the type of system | 14:56 |
| Democritus | dont matter | 14:56 |
| Democritus | probably easier to start with computers :D | 14:56 |
| nsh | like someone was saying today in a comment thread about that judge ruling that copying to RAM is copyright-violation: in 50 years the judges will understand computers and rule sensibly about that, but by then they'll be fucking up whatever the next paradigm is | 14:57 |
| Democritus | idol worship bullshit from tower-people | 14:57 |
| nsh | but the flip-side of that is that the forefront, the innovators, have the equal advantage that result from that | 14:57 |
| Democritus | yeah- noticed that in my career as IT | 14:57 |
| nsh | they dinos don't understand the technology they're trying to suppress yet | 14:57 |
| nsh | mmm, interesting about the cluset idea | 14:58 |
| nsh | *cluster | 14:58 |
| Democritus | you ever see this http://thewebsiteisdown.com/ | 14:58 |
| Democritus | 10 mins | 14:58 |
| Democritus | pure humor- pretty good | 14:58 |
| * nsh checks | 14:58 | |
| Democritus | its not that hard- i will have to whip out my napkins i wrote them on | 14:59 |
| Democritus | if i didnt wipe my face with the napkins | 14:59 |
| Democritus | that happens | 14:59 |
| Democritus | :D | 14:59 |
| Democritus | hey when i was 9 i was eating out- and suddenly wrote down something like " mankind created god out of man's own ignorance of his natural world, fear of the unknown, and desire to control others" | 15:00 |
| Democritus | on a napkin - i like writing on napkins | 15:00 |
| nsh | fuck, got two minutes in before i remembered the flash sound is dead in firefox for some reason | 15:00 |
| * nsh watches in opera, brb | 15:00 | |
| Democritus | lolz | 15:00 |
| Democritus | it is worth it | 15:00 |
| Democritus | brb | 15:00 |
| Democritus | btw- if i had my druthers (whatever they are), I would want an umbrella group (even corp) to oversee that stuff like this gets freely worked on, provides funding for social structures that non-conform. etc | 15:01 |
| Democritus | back in 10mins | 15:01 |
| nsh | sound is painfully choppy for some reason. will watch when ram is less at the premium | 15:14 |
| Democritus | ack | 15:14 |
| * nsh smiles @ writing on napkins | 15:15 | |
| nsh | i have an unfortunate adversion to writing anything anywhere | 15:15 |
| nsh | coupled with a sporadic memory, it's lead to a lot of ideas going the way of all flash | 15:15 |
| Democritus | anyway- decentralized super cluster- ABCD(a(1,2,3)b)E style | 15:15 |
| Democritus | letter represent process categorization or classification - skills if you are talking people | 15:16 |
| Democritus | you join you check in with D node and get list of needs matched with skills- you make choice of initial group- as processing changes and nodes changes however, you may reassign yourself | 15:17 |
| * nsh had a similar idea once for irc | 15:18 | |
| Democritus | so lets say i had 10k computers and databases were not a pita to sync. these computers are supposed to house files, serve web, etc. Well in this example A could be "file" serving done from a series of qualified computers. Again, if a machine joins that has a ton of Ram and no HD's you probably would not want to fill this group | 15:18 |
| * nsh nods | 15:18 | |
| Democritus | B, ftp servers (i hate ftp), C web, D - control group- | 15:18 |
| Democritus | thing is- all non specialized machines are going to land in this category- figuring out the needs requires alot of overhead- and again- there does not have to a central authority commanding each action | 15:19 |
| Democritus | more of a process that produces lists, and self- actualized computers willing to make a choice (that was a bit of a joke) | 15:19 |
| * nsh smiles | 15:20 | |
| Democritus | of course the idea is redundancy as well- hard as hell to take out central processing hub when it not central | 15:20 |
| nsh | right | 15:20 |
| nsh | but redundancy increases overhead, though increasing b/w and processing is making that less of a problem | 15:21 |
| Democritus | so say this existed though- and I brought up my work systems- 16TB fibre backboned disks | 15:21 |
| Democritus | right- | 15:21 |
| * nsh muses | 15:21 | |
| Democritus | it is pushing things into tribal cells | 15:22 |
| Democritus | :D | 15:22 |
| nsh | right on :-) | 15:22 |
| Democritus | monkeysphere family groups when talking people, computational groups in computers | 15:22 |
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| nsh | so, they built this robot that's made out of cells | 15:23 |
| nsh | they self-assemble using wireless | 15:23 |
| Democritus | really? | 15:23 |
| nsh | to make larger bits that do more interesting things | 15:23 |
| Democritus | link? | 15:23 |
| * nsh tries to remember more details for search terms | 15:23 | |
| Democritus | understood | 15:23 |
| Democritus | what was my xwifes name again? | 15:23 |
| Democritus | :D | 15:24 |
| * nsh chuckles, right | 15:24 | |
| nsh | there was a video, i recall | 15:25 |
| Democritus | hey gotta jet- thanks for listening- killing time at work was all- would like to focus on understanding goals, groups, and specific objective points here | 15:25 |
| nsh | http://uk.gizmodo.com/2007/02/23/flexible_robot_can_really_move.html might be it | 15:25 |
| Democritus | otherwise its just an irc channel | 15:25 |
| Democritus | and thats sorta dumb | 15:25 |
| Democritus | imo | 15:25 |
| * nsh smiles | 15:25 | |
| nsh | indeed | 15:25 |
| nsh | nice chatting with you, man | 15:25 |
| nsh | take it easy | 15:25 |
| Democritus | ty for link | 15:25 |
| nsh | hmm, i remember it being cooler than that | 15:26 |
| nsh | but similar idea | 15:26 |
| nsh | descr seems right, maybe there's a better vid somewhere | 15:26 |
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| ybit | so the siai wants you to install a repository, is that it? | 16:46 |
| ybit | a repository of exactly what? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | not quite | 16:48 |
| kanzure | I talked it over with one of their goons :-) a friendly goon | 16:48 |
| kanzure | and what they want, which sounds very typical of where Eli has been in the past few months, is a sort of web interface to the distribution of probabilities of different oh-shit-we're-all-going-to-die information. They want, mostly, this to be an explorative platform for users, but they'd be ok with some collaborative modeling and scenario-pushing or some thing. | 16:50 |
| kanzure | I'm trying to figure out how to do some good here ... not just good code, but some good remedial therapy or something sly. | 16:50 |
| kanzure | *all-going-to-die scenarios | 16:50 |
| kanzure | frankly it all looks like the same sort of reasoning used in the finance industry | 16:51 |
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| kanzure | http://graphcomp.com/opengl/index.cgi?v=0111s2m1&r=s4m1 perl-based CT scan workstation | 17:58 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_magnet "A plastic magnet is a non-metallic magnet made from an organic polymer. One example is PANiCNQ, which is a combination of emeraldine-based polyaniline (PANi) and tetracyanoquinodimethane (TCNQ). When it was created by researchers at the University of Durham in 2004 it was the first magnetic polymer to function at room temperature." | 19:10 |
| kanzure | Both neighboring dorm rooms are filled with what sound to be metal players. | 19:16 |
| kanzure | Do I just knock and ask for a CD? | 19:16 |
| kanzure | heh' | 19:16 |
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| kanzure | hm | 21:01 |
| kanzure | a query that I just got on the server: | 21:02 |
| kanzure | autonomous interactive intelligetn agents spiders ferrets internet bots organic traffic | 21:02 |
| kanzure | *intelligent | 21:02 |
| kanzure | laugh: http://singinst.org/aboutus/opportunities/research-fellow | 23:47 |
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