| --- Day changed Sun Jul 20 2008 | ||
| kanzure | http://followfornow.com/toc | 01:05 |
|---|---|---|
| * kanzure points out that Roy found me, I didn't find him. | 01:05 | |
| ybit | i'm guessing you were interviewed? | 01:46 |
| kanzure | No. | 01:50 |
| kanzure | Just that he found me. | 01:50 |
| kanzure | Apparently he's in the Austin area. | 01:50 |
| kanzure | a lot of those people in that TOC are good names to know | 01:50 |
| kanzure | for instance, I came across Howard a few years back because of his work re: well.com | 01:50 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WELL | 01:50 |
| kanzure | 'The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, normally shortened to The WELL, is one of the oldest virtual communities in continuous operation. It currently has about 4,000 members. It is best known for its Internet forums, but also provides email, shell accounts, and web pages. The discussion and topics on the WELL range from the deeply serious to the generally silly, depending on the nature and interests of the participants.' | 01:50 |
| kanzure | 'The WELL was started by Stewart Brand and Larry Brilliant in 1985, and the name is partially a reference to some of Brand's earlier projects, including the Whole Earth Catalog. T' | 01:51 |
| kanzure | Stewart Brand == http://longnow.org/ and http://web.archive.org/ | 01:51 |
| kanzure | Whole Earth Catalog == http://kk.org/ http://wired.com/ http://edge.org/ | 01:51 |
| * kanzure decided to cut down the music he listens to the portions that he repetitively listens at. http://heybryan.org/aspiemusic/ | 01:52 | |
| kanzure | Whole Earth also implicates Bucky Fuller | 01:58 |
| kanzure | and as you'll note, fenn takes a liking to some of Fuller's work | 01:59 |
| kanzure | especially re: hextatic | 01:59 |
| kanzure | which is partly the reason he's here in the first place | 01:59 |
| kanzure | hm | 01:59 |
| ybit | so you listen to japanese music | 02:08 |
| ybit | i get in the mood often as well | 02:08 |
| kanzure | mostly because I don't understand it | 02:09 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/music2/Macross%20Plus%20-%20Information%20High.mp3 | 02:10 |
| kanzure | I'll have to throw up a streaming server one day. | 02:10 |
| ybit | heh, right, it's easy work through. it's similar to just an instrumental piece playing in the background | 02:10 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/music2/X%20Japan%20-%20Silent%20jealousy.mp3 | 02:11 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/music2/Pokemon%20-%20Japanese%20Theme%20Song.mp3 | 02:11 |
| kanzure | That's about it. | 02:11 |
| ybit | oh wow, | 02:12 |
| ybit | i have 4mb left on my hard drive o_O | 02:12 |
| kanzure | yeah .. | 02:12 |
| kanzure | all of those databases ;-) | 02:12 |
| ybit | hehe, it may may be | 02:13 |
| kanzure | too much ASCII, not enough code | 02:13 |
| ybit | waiting on du -a | sort -n to tell me exactly what though | 02:13 |
| ybit | ah | 02:13 |
| kanzure | I've found I like the graphical disk visualization tools | 02:13 |
| ybit | my virtual drive | 02:13 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-06-16_the_vild.png | 02:13 |
| ybit | i like this because it's quicker | 02:14 |
| ybit | i like this song btw | 02:14 |
| kanzure | which one? | 02:14 |
| ybit | it reminds me of my partying days | 02:14 |
| ybit | not saying i wouldn't party still now, just don't have as much time | 02:15 |
| kanzure | time is created, not destroyed | 02:15 |
| ybit | staying awake destroys sleep :) | 02:15 |
| kanzure | ybit: pm | 02:16 |
| kanzure | another one just while I'm linkbombing music, http://heybryan.org/music2/GammaRay%20-%20CD2%20-%2001%20-%20Rebellion%20in%20dreamland.mp3 | 02:20 |
| ybit | actually the reason partying hard has stopped is because, for me, it's a matter of wasting brain cells or getting something accomplished | 02:20 |
| kanzure | heh | 02:20 |
| kanzure | at least you've "been there, done that" | 02:20 |
| ybit | oh have i :) | 02:23 |
| ybit | btw, not quite sure this is the place to discuss me past | 02:27 |
| ybit | so i'll change subjects | 02:27 |
| kanzure | eh? | 02:29 |
| kanzure | to .. what? | 02:29 |
| ybit | anything but that of course :) | 02:31 |
| kanzure | are you a wanted criminal? :) | 02:31 |
| ybit | heh, naah | 02:32 |
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| fenn | re: du | sort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filelight | 07:08 |
| fenn | i recently re-discovered the whole earth catalog myself | 07:09 |
| fenn | they are gradually putting all the back issues back online | 07:09 |
| fenn | apparently stewart brand was the first to publish gerard o'neill's work, because he was the only one interested :\ | 07:10 |
| fenn | "So the Whole Earth Catalog is responsible for the colonization of space." http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Services/Education/SpaceSettlement/CoEvolutionBook/Interview.HTML | 07:11 |
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| kanzure | fenn: nice interview | 13:50 |
| fenn | yar | 13:50 |
| fenn | i am reading the letters sent in by readers, its rather painful | 13:50 |
| kanzure | negative? | 13:55 |
| kanzure | link? | 13:56 |
| fenn | click on table of contents and then debate | 13:57 |
| fenn | surprisingly paul ehrlich (most cynical tech-hater environmentalist ever) actually seemed to like the idea | 13:58 |
| ybit | well, f' that | 13:59 |
| ybit | the second life transhumanist meeting | 13:59 |
| ybit | my voice chat doesn't work in SL | 14:00 |
| fenn | most of the negative letters are based on errors in reasoning/scientific knowledge, so they're not really worth reading (unless you enjoy reading that sort of thing) | 14:00 |
| kanzure | ybit: I said 'fuck that' to SL transhuman-groups too ... Anders promised me an IRC gateway to the SL chat, but no. | 14:01 |
| kanzure | fenn: prospects don't look good | 14:02 |
| * kanzure goes downstairs to grab a bite | 14:02 | |
| ybit | + litesim would be the way to go as far as virtual worlds are concerned | 14:03 |
| ybit | opensim has too much bloat, bugs, and .net specific crap | 14:04 |
| fenn | here's a sample: "It is impossible, using available technology, or any likely to be available in the next generation, to refine metals and do other heavy industrial operations in space, or on the moon's surface, and any technology we ever develop to do it will be enormously expensive. The reason is that in a vacuum there is no medium to carry away excess heat. A rough figure often given is that it takes about 50 tons of water (and no one has estimated how many tons of air) to make one ton of steel." | 14:05 |
| fenn | and then a torrent of "we should fix earth first!11" | 14:06 |
| -!- nsh- is now known as nsh | 14:07 | |
| fenn | i'd love to be able to point to some nasa experiment proving them wrong of course, but that doesn't seem to be on their agenda | 14:07 |
| fenn | (nasa's agenda) | 14:07 |
| fenn | you can tell this guy's a real team player: "Space is not Heaven. It is not even Disneyland. It is an environment as hostile and deadly as the core of a nuclear reactor or the inside of a tank of nerve gas." | 14:20 |
| fenn | oh well i thought it was funny | 14:21 |
| kanzure | ' I would think that in the long run, the tendency toward community diversity, the diversity of governments, diversity of the ways people choose to live, the kinds of architecture that they choose to have, and so on, would be enormous.' | 15:12 |
| kanzure | Israel comes to mind | 15:16 |
| fenn | as the sort of culture you expect to come about in space colonies? | 15:19 |
| fenn | in some ways i agree, as far as the high tech farmer aspect, but then there won't be millions of angry arabs surrounding your space colony either | 15:20 |
| kanzure | no | 15:20 |
| kanzure | Israel was artificial, no? | 15:21 |
| kanzure | I was thinking that you need a very motivated group of people that really want to get out | 15:21 |
| fenn | oh, that's a given | 15:21 |
| fenn | i mean, there are so many people that would jump for the opportunity it's not even funny | 15:22 |
| kanzure | 'After World War I, the League of Nations approved the British Mandate of Palestine with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people."[7] ' | 15:22 |
| kanzure | right, but this is about ~8 million people | 15:22 |
| kanzure | unfortunately they already have their home now :( | 15:22 |
| fenn | sure, until nuclear bombs get smuggled in | 15:22 |
| nsh | i wish they'd found them a national home in alaska somewhere | 15:23 |
| kanzure | until? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | in Alaska? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | why not just put them in the ocean for that matter? | 15:23 |
| nsh | yeah, that would have been much better for the future-history of the world | 15:23 |
| fenn | put who in the ocean? | 15:23 |
| nsh | (alaska, not the ocean) | 15:23 |
| nsh | i wonder... | 15:23 |
| nsh | if we could convince overwhelmingly people of the multiple worlds interpretation of qm | 15:24 |
| kanzure | fenn: the jews | 15:24 |
| nsh | we could set up a random number generator with three equally weighted results | 15:24 |
| kanzure | nsh: please, no MWI in here :( | 15:24 |
| kanzure | it hurts me too much | 15:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: they didnt have that idea, much less the technology to implement it, in 1945 | 15:24 |
| nsh | in one world, all the jews get killed, in another, all the arabs get killed, and in another, both | 15:25 |
| kanzure | I know. | 15:25 |
| nsh | each would be fine by virtue of quantum immortality | 15:25 |
| kanzure | nsh: let's not kill | 15:25 |
| * nsh smiles | 15:25 | |
| kanzure | how about we kill YOU? or anyone who proposes killing each other | 15:25 |
| kanzure | hm | 15:25 |
| * kanzure ducks | 15:25 | |
| fenn | according to MWI that means everyone's dead somewhere or other | 15:25 |
| nsh | yeah, it's a win-win | 15:26 |
| fenn | they should have sent the jews to finland | 15:26 |
| * nsh wishes his teeth were less sensitive andor the milk less cold | 15:29 | |
| nsh | gah, this paper is terribly-written: http://ppp.unipv.it/Collana/Pages/Libri/Saggi/Volta%20and%20the%20History%20of%20Electricity/V&H%20Sect4/V&H%20365-376.pdf | 15:30 |
| kanzure | hm, symbolic metrology? | 15:33 |
| nsh | representing physical quantities by symbolic structures rather than bare numbers | 15:34 |
| kanzure | physical quantities or physical materials? | 15:36 |
| nsh | the one i wrote | 15:37 |
| kanzure | :( | 15:38 |
| fenn | nsh: units are your friend :) | 15:40 |
| fenn | then you get into GD&T which sucks | 15:40 |
| nsh | GD&T? | 15:41 |
| fenn | there's a whole science of metrology, with much 'tacit knowledge' meaning its not even possible to explain how to do it | 15:41 |
| fenn | geometric dimensioning and tolerancing | 15:41 |
| kanzure | not possible to explain how? | 15:41 |
| fenn | well, i'm specifically thinknig of how these soviet scientists were measuring the damping coefficient of sapphire crystals by hanging from a spider silk thread lubricated 'just so' with pork grease | 15:42 |
| fenn | the americans couldnt get the same value until they visited the lab and got hands on instruction | 15:43 |
| * nsh expresses confusement | 15:43 | |
| fenn | not having been there, i can't explain it :) | 15:43 |
| kanzure | I'm having trouble remembering | 15:43 |
| kanzure | just what it is that I was planning on doing right now | 15:43 |
| fenn | you were remembering where the CPU was | 15:44 |
| kanzure | still no CPU :( | 15:44 |
| kanzure | but something project related | 15:44 |
| kanzure | I guess I was working on the brain visualization stuff | 15:44 |
| fenn | say, isnt all the google maps stuff rather... 2d? | 15:45 |
| kanzure | there's also Google Earth | 15:45 |
| kanzure | and fMRI data sets on the net for 3D reconstruction | 15:45 |
| kanzure | plus the ontology and 20 micrometer study that the Allen Institute graciously gave in their data.zip file | 15:45 |
| fenn | uh, i just dont really get why you need or want a 2d map of the brain | 15:46 |
| kanzure | more the idea of users seeing it in their browser | 15:46 |
| fenn | its like having a 1d street map | 15:46 |
| kanzure | and being able to tag their psychological-stuffs and correlate with other users | 15:46 |
| kanzure | it's not like this map is telling them where to go... | 15:46 |
| kanzure | so calling it a map is odd anyway :-) | 15:47 |
| fenn | hrmph | 15:47 |
| kanzure | so the problem is that it's not all that functional | 15:47 |
| kanzure | it's just more data | 15:47 |
| fenn | right | 15:47 |
| kanzure | I was hoping I could use this as a 'computational scaffold' | 15:47 |
| kanzure | so that if I was to sit here with some biofeedback stuff | 15:47 |
| kanzure | I could at least look at some fancy computer recipes for targetting regions of the model | 15:47 |
| kanzure | or correlate it to BibTeX or other users and their data | 15:48 |
| kanzure | while it would be awesome if it works, the implementation details sound flaky | 15:48 |
| kanzure | does that make sense? | 15:48 |
| kanzure | I'm afraid it might not, and that's why I'm sitting here doing nothing | 15:48 |
| kanzure | one interesting result would be to see if it could be used to train neural tissue slices in specific ways | 15:50 |
| kanzure | sort of? | 15:50 |
| kanzure | trading the different ways of training cultures as 'data sets' (or 'training sets') which is somewhat already done with the ANN peoples (the simple ANN bullshit stuff (handwritten rec, OCR, ..)) | 15:51 |
| kanzure | oh, that's right | 15:53 |
| kanzure | I'm more interested in life support systems | 15:53 |
| * kanzure realizes that these data sets aren't necessarily usable in that way | 15:54 | |
| fenn | not unless you can measure the connection strengths | 15:58 |
| kanzure | don't know if connection data is relevant here | 15:59 |
| kanzure | originally I was hoping to use this for the 'sustained attention' setup stuff | 16:00 |
| kanzure | which is still practical of course, but it's sort of a mini bootstrap problem | 16:00 |
| kanzure | granted, not one as painful as skdb | 16:00 |
| kanzure | just have to go get the hardware *first* | 16:00 |
| kanzure | and then throw together the data | 16:00 |
| kanzure | fenn: btw, democritus, the fellow in here the other day, has supposedly received $200k for 'viral banking' | 16:01 |
| kanzure | in VC funding | 16:01 |
| nsh | hmm | 16:03 |
| nsh | physics is so wrong :-/ | 16:03 |
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| fenn | what is 'viral banking' and why would someone invest in it? | 16:11 |
| * nsh is also interested in the answers to those questions | 16:13 | |
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| kanzure | yep, too much psychology | 17:46 |
| kanzure | I guess I shouldn't attend to attention | 17:46 |
| nsh | hmm? | 17:48 |
| kanzure | I guess I assuming that I could use autism as a way to get to attention | 17:48 |
| kanzure | +was somewhere in there :) | 17:48 |
| nsh | ah | 17:54 |
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| kanzure | fenn: somebody wants to write a grant proposal for your writozyme | 18:51 |
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| kanzure | I'm open to suggestions as to where to find a new relayhost for heybryan.org outgoing email :-/ | 21:43 |
| kanzure | http://apogeenet.net/ is the isp but there's no information regarding relayhosts available on the site | 21:43 |
| kanzure | in fact there's basically nothing on the site | 21:43 |
| ybit | kanzure, the only reason you don't want to do 3d simulations is because of the immense resources needed? | 23:39 |
| kanzure | more or less :-) | 23:40 |
| kanzure | but I wouldn't mind it | 23:41 |
| kanzure | I just don't see short term payoff | 23:41 |
| kanzure | payoff as in results that are functionally relevant, not money or anything | 23:41 |
| kanzure | fenn has previously tried to convince me of otherwise | 23:48 |
| kanzure | don't know if we want to bring up those discussions again ? I mean, I'm probably wrong | 23:49 |
| ybit | def. bring them up again :) | 23:50 |
| kanzure | as in, convince me | 23:50 |
| kanzure | heh' | 23:50 |
| ybit | me? not me, i could attempt to convince you if i wasn't tired, but it would just be laughable right now | 23:53 |
| ybit | bb soon | 23:53 |
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