| --- Day changed Thu Sep 11 2008 | ||
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| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: Semi-intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKbzbeipmI http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ | diy bio tools: http://biohack.sf.net/ | Automated societal knowledge (put it to work): http://heybryan.org/exp.html | Channel wiki: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ | F/OSS re: Kurzweil: http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ | 00:01 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzur1 [] [Mon Aug 11 14:37:25 2008] | 00:01 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 00:01 | |
| [ bkero] [ fenn ] [ freer ] [ kanzure__] [ Phreedom] [ willPow3r] | 00:01 | |
| [ chizu] [ fenn_] [ kanzure] [ Overand ] [ procto ] [ ybit ] | 00:01 | |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal] | 00:01 | |
| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 00:01 | |
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| willPow3r | happy sept. 11th, everybody | 07:20 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html | 07:32 |
| jm | ;-) | 07:34 |
| willPow3r | lol | 07:34 |
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| willPow3r | http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tmodis/Kurzweil.htm | 09:09 |
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| fenn_ | i guess that would be interesting if i had read the book | 09:25 |
| -!- You're now known as fenn | 09:25 | |
| willPow3r | i only got through the first couple chapters | 09:25 |
| willPow3r | but modis says himself that he couldn't get past page 150 | 09:26 |
| fenn | heh | 09:26 |
| willPow3r | because its all based on ballpark figures made by other scientists | 09:26 |
| willPow3r | omfg singularitarians are so fucking ignorant | 09:48 |
| fenn | who are these 'singularitarians' everyone keeps talking about? | 09:54 |
| willPow3r | people who believe that kurzweil's predictions about the future progress of technology are fact | 09:55 |
| fenn | do they actually refer to themselves as 'singularitarian'? | 09:55 |
| willPow3r | yes, indeed they do | 09:55 |
| willPow3r | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularitarianism | 09:56 |
| willPow3r | they are, more or less, like christian soldiers, only for the singularity meme rather than the christian one | 09:57 |
| fenn | i always thought the word was sort of a derisive comparison with religious fanatics | 09:58 |
| fenn | not something to be trumpeted proudly | 09:58 |
| willPow3r | heh | 09:58 |
| willPow3r | ironically, thats what it's becoming | 09:58 |
| willPow3r | trying to convince a believer to take scientific skepticism seriously is like trying to disprove religion | 10:00 |
| willPow3r | since it's only a belief, it can't be done | 10:00 |
| willPow3r | because the singularity hasn't happened yet, singularitarians have all the freedom they need to keep redefining their belief | 10:01 |
| willPow3r | so it becomes an extremely parasitic and contagious meme | 10:02 |
| willPow3r | i'm not saying that singularity is bad or impossible, just that the whole idea should be taken with a very large grain of salt | 10:03 |
| willPow3r | and that the idea is diverging from what it started out as: a simple, yet powerful, concept, being taken out of context and hugely overexaggerated | 10:05 |
| willPow3r | i mean, if you look at yudkowsy's "4 qualities that define a singularitarian," that looks an awful lot like the beginnings of a pentateuch for a system of belief | 10:07 |
| willPow3r | and the current purveyors of singularitarianism (kurzweil, bostrom, yudkowsky) are becoming prophesized by this new following | 10:08 |
| willPow3r | its very, very important to remember that the singularity is only an extrapolated data point on a graph, not some unknowable being to be idolized | 10:09 |
| willPow3r | which it is becoming. by singularitarians. | 10:09 |
| willPow3r | watch out for these people, they are going to give a bad name to science and anything having to do with research in advancement of human capability (medicine included) | 10:11 |
| willPow3r | http://www.haibane.info/2008/03/02/singularity-skeptic/ | 10:12 |
| willPow3r | off to class. l8r | 10:13 |
| fenn | enjoy | 10:13 |
| fenn | that singularity skeptic blog article is pretty weak | 10:31 |
| fenn | i dont think he really understands what he's talking about | 10:32 |
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| fenn | i dont really get these "math question" captchas - if someone can write a spambot that can recognize horribly burred distorted text, surely they could add two numbers together | 10:50 |
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| procto | fenn when you reach "ut my sense of the human brain (which is partly religious" | 12:49 |
| procto | you should stop reading | 12:49 |
| procto | and write off the article as bunk | 12:49 |
| procto | and almost all the comments harp on the endless point of human exceptionalism | 12:50 |
| procto | "we are motivated" | 12:50 |
| procto | of course we are motivated. we fucking evolved. the basic evolutionary imperative of "survive to next generation" | 12:51 |
| procto | that's it. | 12:51 |
| * kanzure didn't get through Kurzweil's book either | 13:05 | |
| kanzure | SL4 is filled with tons of 'singularitarians' | 13:05 |
| kanzure | now there's people joining those mailing lists looking for "singularitarian jobs" | 13:06 |
| procto | ... | 13:06 |
| procto | kurzweil makes plenty of errors of optimism and sort of ommitting things | 13:06 |
| procto | but he doesn't accept fundamentally wrong models | 13:07 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ <- why kurzweil sucks | 13:07 |
| procto | I've read all of those | 13:07 |
| kanzure | true, he's not as bad as yudkowsky's fanbase | 13:07 |
| kanzure | remember, I was living /with/ his fanbase | 13:07 |
| kanzure | cultists | 13:07 |
| procto | highly unsatisfactory attack on kurzweil | 13:07 |
| procto | they're mostly against his motivation and interpretation of possible future developments | 13:07 |
| procto | I agree with some of yudkowsky's ideas. I agree with some of kurzweil's ideas. I am not a "fan" of *anyone*. That's the big problem... | 13:08 |
| procto | How can you claim to be doing any sort of thinking while you are in thrall to someone's personality? | 13:08 |
| procto | I don't understand it. | 13:08 |
| procto | oh well. | 13:08 |
| procto | kanzure: the ... was for the singularitarian jobs. | 13:08 |
| procto | just fyi | 13:09 |
| procto | kanzure: I just registered for a self-design independent study course I'm going to be doing this semester | 13:09 |
| procto | called it "Exploring the Exocortex" | 13:09 |
| procto | basically, I'm going to start recording every day of my life on camera | 13:09 |
| procto | tagging the results | 13:09 |
| procto | and then training various learners on it | 13:09 |
| procto | until they know my daily life, and what my behavior SHOULD be based on my calendar | 13:10 |
| procto | better than I do | 13:10 |
| kanzure | procto: do you know of my years of paralysis? | 13:10 |
| procto | (I'm very bad at it) | 13:10 |
| procto | kanzure: no? | 13:10 |
| kanzure | from age 13 to 16 or so, I would come home and sit and just type for hours to do autobiographical recounts of the day | 13:10 |
| kanzure | somewhat like tagging | 13:10 |
| kanzure | it _does not work_ | 13:10 |
| kanzure | you will KILL yourself | 13:10 |
| procto | well, I don't remember what I did today | 13:10 |
| procto | that's why I will video everything | 13:11 |
| kanzure | yes,but it's the tagging .. | 13:11 |
| procto | the point is basically that I just don't have the time to do the tagging automatically | 13:11 |
| procto | there are people who are better at such things that I can get in a semester | 13:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.speakeasy.org/~lion/nb/ "How to make a complete map of every thought you think" | 13:12 |
| kanzure | Lion Kimbro understands .. "this *will* kill you" | 13:12 |
| kanzure | the MIT/Austin list guy understands <--- it /did/ kill him | 13:12 |
| kanzure | did it for 12 years .. | 13:12 |
| procto | I'm doing it for at most a month | 13:13 |
| procto | just to have data | 13:13 |
| procto | that's the point, I don't want to actually have to do it | 13:13 |
| procto | but to export it to the exocortex | 13:13 |
| procto | but to incentivize good feature extractors, I need to have a system that already deals with that type of data | 13:13 |
| procto | I don't care at the moment what is happening INSIDE my brain | 13:15 |
| procto | i.e. mapping my thgouths, etc. | 13:15 |
| procto | I only care about figuring out things like being aware of the behaviors that surround getting to an appointment on time. | 13:15 |
| procto | a calendar can remind me that I have an appt | 13:15 |
| procto | a calendar doesn't have a model of the appropriate sequence of behaviors for making it in time to the appointment | 13:16 |
| procto | and thus can't notice deviations | 13:16 |
| procto | anyways, the exact goal of the course will get refined over the semester | 13:16 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/utsvt-body-team | 13:17 |
| kanzure | grr, more mailing lists | 13:17 |
| * procto will be back later | 13:17 | |
| * kanzure too | 13:34 | |
| * kanzure is on the payroll | 15:12 | |
| willPow3r | fenn, the author of that singularity skeptic blog used "partly religious" when he referred to the brain to mean something which we will probably never fully understand, leaving explanation and purpose to The Unknowable | 15:26 |
| willPow3r | who some consider to be a god in one form or another | 15:26 |
| willPow3r | and that idea isn't exactly far fetched or incorrect | 15:26 |
| willPow3r | at least not as far fetched as some singularitarians are willing to go in defining their belief of the future | 15:28 |
| willPow3r | its vaguely reminiscent of the heaven's gate cult. | 15:28 |
| willPow3r | "drink the magic kool aid/red pill/microchip and be whisked away to a wonder utopia" | 15:30 |
| kanzure | yes, drink it! | 15:30 |
| willPow3r | wonderful* | 15:30 |
| * kanzure has drunk the koolaid | 15:30 | |
| willPow3r | i think that was just regular jungle juice | 15:30 |
| willPow3r | kanzure | 15:30 |
| willPow3r | probably with a little too much TAAKA vodka | 15:31 |
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| kanzure | Hey biopunk | 15:42 |
| biopunk | hi kanzure | 16:04 |
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| kanzure | What's up? | 16:07 |
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| biopunk | not much.. sorry for the latency ;) | 16:55 |
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| bkero | Any of you guys look at using perfluorocarbons as artificial blood? | 17:48 |
| kanzure | Pardon? | 18:22 |
| * kanzure just got back from a seminar on zinc fingers for gene targetting | 18:22 | |
| kanzure | apparently it's becoming quite the respectable nonkilling alternative to retroviruses | 18:22 |
| bkero | kanzure: blood substitutes | 18:23 |
| bkero | perfluorocarbons as an artificial oxygen carrier. | 18:23 |
| bkero | I was looking up Cray Blood that's used to cool computers, which brought me to fluorinert, which is a perfluorocarbon, which had some studies linked to it about using it for liquid breathing, or as a blood substitute. | 18:24 |
| kanzure | isn't there more to blood than the hemoglobin? :( | 18:24 |
| bkero | http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=137239 | 18:25 |
| kanzure | first, I need to steal some anime-disco music | 18:30 |
| kanzure | any servers to hit? | 18:30 |
| bkero | anime--disco? | 18:31 |
| bkero | wtf? | 18:31 |
| bkero | You could try some Initial D | 18:31 |
| bkero | That's pretty japanese | 18:31 |
| bkero | Try back on the Rocks | 18:32 |
| kanzure | What I really want is the group that I completely forget the name of. | 18:32 |
| bkero | Malice Mizer? | 18:32 |
| kanzure | the japanese group that does ridiculously awesome epic dance tracks | 18:32 |
| kanzure | No, not so mainstream | 18:33 |
| * bkero shrugs | 18:33 | |
| kanzure | endmix | 18:33 |
| kanzure | hm | 18:33 |
| kanzure | Crap. I've forgotten the name. | 18:33 |
| kanzure | Exit Trance. | 18:35 |
| kanzure | bwahah | 18:35 |
| bkero | Crazy Japanese. | 18:35 |
| kanzure | hm, Initial D is listed as some of their covers | 18:36 |
| bkero | lol | 18:36 |
| kanzure | What's with you and lol? | 18:37 |
| * bkero shrugs | 18:37 | |
| kanzure | :) | 18:37 |
| bkero | quick gut reaction to irony | 18:37 |
| kanzure | still? | 18:37 |
| kanzure | you never purged it? | 18:37 |
| bkero | and this _IS_ the internet, isn't it? | 18:37 |
| kanzure | *what* ?! | 18:38 |
| kanzure | Any particular Initial D soundtracks? | 18:38 |
| kanzure | erm | 18:38 |
| kanzure | tracks | 18:38 |
| kanzure | http://deimonstar.com/files/Juns%20Mp3/Initial%20D%20Soundtrack/ | 18:38 |
| kanzure | http://raggak.animechild.org/Crap/Music/ | 18:39 |
| * kanzure grabs the zip | 18:39 | |
| kanzure | I'm in love with this server -> http://www.saitekanime.com/music/ | 18:41 |
| bkero | Not bad | 18:42 |
| kanzure | 1 MB/sec | 18:44 |
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| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/camera/aws/view.html <-- I feel old. | 21:15 |
| kanzure | just got those photos from some very, very old friends | 21:16 |
| bkero | Er | 21:17 |
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| bkero | kanzure: Have you ever used http://www.biosql.org/wiki/Main_Page ? | 21:27 |
| bkero | Apparently some people set it up and populate it with the entire NCBI taxonomy set. | 21:27 |
| kanzure | Yummy. | 21:28 |
| kanzure | NCBI only releases their dataset to you if you fill out a few forms. | 21:28 |
| kanzure | I guess I have somewhat legitimate reasons now, but it's still annoying. | 21:28 |
| bkero | How about the entire GenBank or EMBL or Swissprot public | 21:29 |
| kanzure | Swissprot? | 21:29 |
| kanzure | EMBL? | 21:29 |
| kanzure | But yes, I'd like to torrent GenBank. | 21:29 |
| bkero | google is your friend :) | 21:29 |
| bkero | http://www.embl.de/ | 21:29 |
| kanzure | http://expasy.org/sprot/ | 21:29 |
| kanzure | you know what, fuck this | 21:30 |
| kanzure | I can spider genbank. | 21:30 |
| bkero | lol | 21:30 |
| bkero | How big do you think genbank is | 21:30 |
| bkero | ? | 21:30 |
| kanzure | Meh. | 21:30 |
| kanzure | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Ftp/ | 21:30 |
| kanzure | Woah, this isn't bad. | 21:31 |
| kanzure | ftp://bio-mirror.net/biomirror/genbank/ | 21:31 |
| kanzure | ftp://bio-mirror.jp.apan.net/pub/biomirror/genbank/ (Japan) | 21:32 |
| kanzure | ftp://bio-mirror.kr.apan.net/pub/biomirror/genbank/ (Korea) | 21:32 |
| kanzure | ftp://bio-mirror.sg.apan.net/biomirrors/genbank/ (Singapore) | 21:32 |
| bkero | That's maybe 1TB? | 21:32 |
| kanzure | How much of it is unique? | 21:33 |
| kanzure | I can't quite tell the difference between the datasets there except the filename, which isn't helpful. | 21:33 |
| bkero | Yea | 21:33 |
| kanzure | ftp://ftp.ncbi.nih.gov/genbank/genomes/H_sapiens/ | 21:33 |
| kanzure | For instance, | 21:33 |
| bkero | ftp://bio-mirror.net/biomirror/genbank/README.genbank | 21:33 |
| kanzure | 94 MB, and then a 1 GB file | 21:33 |
| kanzure | Yes, I read the readme. | 21:33 |
| kanzure | foo | 21:33 |
| bkero | JESUS | 21:33 |
| bkero | The files in this directory comprise GenBank Release 167.0, in the | 21:33 |
| bkero | GenBank flatfile format. | 21:33 |
| kanzure | hs_phs0.fna.gz Survey sequence (approx 0.5 - 1 x coverage) | 21:34 |
| kanzure | hs_phs1.fna.gz Unordered contigs (each >2kb) | 21:34 |
| kanzure | hs_phs2.fna.gz Ordered contigs (each >2kb) | 21:34 |
| kanzure | hs_phs3.fna.gz Finished sequence | 21:34 |
| kanzure | Heh. | 21:34 |
| bkero | Looks like GenBank is pulling in EMBL data | 21:34 |
| kanzure | All of them are the whole release? Bah .. | 21:34 |
| bkero | At least nucleotide bases can be 2-bit bit. :) | 21:35 |
| kanzure | 20 minutes to get a gigabyte. Meh. I guess it's not life-or-death. | 21:35 |
| kanzure | What type of down/up do you get at Intel? | 21:35 |
| bkero | Intels connection is shit | 21:36 |
| bkero | Although I have an I2 connection at oregonstate. | 21:36 |
| bkero | Bouncing between 600 and 1.2MB | 21:36 |
| kanzure | Bah. | 21:37 |
| kanzure | But at least you have clusters. | 21:37 |
| bkero | Heh | 21:37 |
| kanzure | don't tell me that's not quite true either .. | 21:37 |
| bkero | actually | 21:38 |
| * kanzure groans | 21:38 | |
| bkero | bio-mirror.net = magpie.bio.indiana.edu | 21:38 |
| kanzure | right | 21:38 |
| bkero | My friend runs the supercomputer on campus there. | 21:38 |
| kanzure | How super is it? | 21:38 |
| bkero | Mainframe super | 21:38 |
| bkero | It's on the top 500 list | 21:38 |
| bkero | http://www.top500.org/site/systems/876 | 21:40 |
| kanzure | Heh, they give the top500 in XML format on the site | 21:41 |
| bkero | I can probably get him to send it to you. :P | 21:41 |
| kanzure | the whole cluster? | 21:41 |
| bkero | No, the data from the ftp | 21:41 |
| kanzure | that's not quite as exciting | 21:41 |
| bkero | lol | 21:41 |
| bkero | You want a cluster? | 21:41 |
| kanzure | unless he can get it to me in less than the 13 minutes remaining | 21:41 |
| kanzure | Yes, especially an exponentially growing cluster if you would | 21:41 |
| kanzure | maybe a supercluster | 21:41 |
| bkero | I can get quad cores with 4gb of ram for less than $500 a node | 21:42 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/clusters.html | 21:43 |
| kanzure | now that /me thinks about it I should have kept the superclusters | 21:43 |
| bkero | Strike that, $400 per node | 21:43 |
| kanzure | node != just the microprocessor ? | 21:44 |
| bkero | No | 21:44 |
| kanzure | Then why mention the ram? | 21:44 |
| bkero | Node = one commodity "computer" | 21:44 |
| kanzure | != means "not equal" | 21:44 |
| kanzure | anyway | 21:44 |
| kanzure | Awesome. | 21:44 |
| kanzure | I wish you would have mentioned that a few months ago. | 21:44 |
| bkero | Aww, did you ahve an opportunity? | 21:44 |
| kanzure | No, I wasted a large chunk of cash on a new box. | 21:45 |
| bkero | Yea. These boxes have onboard video, and no hard drives... | 21:45 |
| kanzure | just a little over double .. | 21:45 |
| kanzure | oh | 21:45 |
| kanzure | Well then. Nevermind. | 21:45 |
| bkero | Wow, damn, I hope you got something good. | 21:45 |
| bkero | $550 would get you good video and a 500gb | 21:46 |
| kanzure | 2 TB, four video cards, eight monitors, quadcore, 4 GB ram, .. | 21:46 |
| bkero | what | 21:46 |
| kanzure | ? | 21:46 |
| bkero | Is that what you got? | 21:46 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:46 |
| bkero | Absurd | 21:47 |
| kanzure | Overpriced? | 21:47 |
| bkero | 8 monitors? | 21:47 |
| kanzure | Heh. | 21:47 |
| kanzure | CRTs. | 21:47 |
| bkero | oh | 21:47 |
| kanzure | So it was cheap. | 21:47 |
| bkero | God | 21:47 |
| bkero | SO MUCH POWER DRAW | 21:47 |
| bkero | and SO MUCH EYE CANCER | 21:47 |
| kanzure | CANCER | 21:47 |
| * kanzure has to boot up with a radiation suit | 21:47 | |
| bkero | Buy one of these | 21:48 |
| bkero | and tell me how much it draws | 21:48 |
| bkero | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001 | 21:48 |
| bkero | dinner time, spicy curry! | 21:48 |
| kanzure | what do I do with an fna file? | 22:02 |
| kanzure | 'FASTA file format, nucleic acid sequences' | 22:02 |
| kanzure | looks like I might be able to split it up if I wanted to but why wasn't it in the first place? | 22:03 |
| kanzure | each entry in the fna file looks like http://earth.lab.nig.ac.jp/~dclust/cgi-bin/barley_pub/blast_viewer/showflatdata.cgi?CLNID=5005&CLNLIBID=54&DBID=1 | 22:04 |
| kanzure | specially the portions separted by the hr elements on the page | 22:04 |
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