| --- Day changed Sun Sep 21 2008 | ||
| kanzure | hah | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | classic | 00:03 |
| kanzure | pointing at a monitor | 00:03 |
| kanzure | fenn: if you check wtf_2.html you'll see at line 471 that they have <input name="ct100$ContentMain$txtMatGroupID" where txtMatGroupID is a variable in the javascript; do you think that they are silly enough to actually be replacing the variables in the element's name property? Or that it's the actual name of the variable? So far I'm having trouble figuring this one out without laboriously checking this by hand. | 00:34 |
| fenn | i think that's just the form element name | 00:37 |
| kanzure | why would it have a $ in it? | 00:39 |
| kanzure | in front of the names of variables | 00:39 |
| kanzure | which can't be a coincidence | 00:39 |
| kanzure | on top of that, there's two variables side by side to each other | 00:39 |
| fenn | uh, it's the economy! | 00:39 |
| kanzure | no self-respecting programmer would do that | 00:39 |
| kanzure | hm? | 00:39 |
| fenn | maybe they have no self respect | 00:39 |
| kanzure | but it's harder to parse | 00:39 |
| kanzure | what if I did $blah$blah2$blah4, how is the receiving end supposed to know I used different variables than $ContentMain$btnReset ? | 00:40 |
| kanzure | erm | 00:40 |
| kanzure | $ContentMain$txtMatGroupID | 00:40 |
| fenn | it's just a string | 00:40 |
| fenn | the client doesnt expand the variable names like in a shell | 00:41 |
| kanzure | so maybe they're checking for the presence of ct10011000 or something | 00:41 |
| kanzure | argh | 00:41 |
| kanzure | okay | 00:41 |
| kanzure | so the client is sending the variable name with the '$' in it? | 00:41 |
| fenn | yep | 00:41 |
| fenn | i think they are just lazy and used code generating tools | 00:41 |
| kanzure | are we sure they aren't using some AJAX black magic? | 00:41 |
| fenn | no, i dont know any ajax black magic | 00:41 |
| kanzure | well, for example: | 00:42 |
| kanzure | document.getElementByID('this element id thingy').name | 00:42 |
| kanzure | then using this 'name' variable, split by '$' | 00:42 |
| kanzure | and then like in perl and php, $$name. $name is "bryan", so $$name means "think of this as $bryan" | 00:42 |
| kanzure | that'd be some black magic. | 00:42 |
| fenn | the name is unique because it's made from the tree hierarchy | 00:43 |
| fenn | like domain names | 00:43 |
| kanzure | hm | 00:43 |
| kanzure | another piece of evidence is that nowhere in the wireshark log file is there 'ContentMain =' suggesting that they really are passing the string with the $'s | 00:44 |
| kanzure | <input type="image" name="ctl00$ContentMain$btnSubmit" id="ctl00_ContentMain_btnSubmit" src="../images/buttons/btnFind.gif" alt="Find" border="0" /> | 00:50 |
| kanzure | oh, nevermind | 00:50 |
| kanzure | 'Anthony Atala.' re: the molded organs/tissues | 01:07 |
| kanzure | Anyway, my wget fails. | 01:19 |
| kanzure | Any ideas why? | 01:20 |
| kanzure | Fails as in, they send me to an error page. | 01:20 |
| fenn | what's the error? | 01:21 |
| kanzure | The __VIEWSTATE variable does not change from one request to the other | 01:21 |
| kanzure | the error is just "something's wrong, we've told ourselves about it so please move along" | 01:21 |
| kanzure | and I have all of the variables on the page | 01:22 |
| kanzure | so either they aren't sending the $'s in their POST request, or some of the variables are set somewhere in the js | 01:22 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Melancholy_of_Haruhi_Suzumiya_(anime) | 02:56 |
| kanzure | re: mac.html | 02:56 |
| kanzure | (2008-09-20 22:03:37) Charlie: They meet in the welch building in the basement on fridays | 03:00 |
| kanzure | (2008-09-20 22:03:49) Charlie: they have one cyberpunk anime showing | 03:00 |
| kanzure | (2008-09-20 22:03:56) kanzure: Will they show Lain? | 03:00 |
| kanzure | (2008-09-20 22:04:02) Charlie: what is lain? | 03:00 |
| kanzure | brain explodes | 03:00 |
| kanzure | bkero: Where's your lain dir? | 03:00 |
| kanzure | http://65.111.186.55/data/ <-- why isn't it here? | 03:03 |
| kanzure | Ruroni Kenshin over Lain? To shame. | 03:05 |
| fenn | hmm i watched one episode of 'serial experiments lain' and got disgustedly bored | 03:08 |
| ybit | fenn, glad you survived | 03:08 |
| ybit | nothing of yours was swept away? | 03:09 |
| fenn | i was about to say 'died of boredom' but i guess i'm still alive, sorta | 03:09 |
| * fenn flops about on the floor | 03:09 | |
| kanzure | guess that would've lasted something like | 03:09 |
| kanzure | 5 minutes | 03:09 |
| fenn | i do believe there is a java hijack on my konqueror session | 03:10 |
| kanzure | "what is lain" is a reference to lain | 03:10 |
| kanzure | Erm. As confusing as that sounds. | 03:11 |
| fenn | right. | 03:11 |
| fenn | did lain say that or her alter ego? | 03:11 |
| kanzure | I've only stolen up to the fourth episode, so I'm not entirely sure. | 03:11 |
| fenn | its not really cyberpunk though, more like emo-punk with computers | 03:12 |
| kanzure | try to ignore the emo | 03:13 |
| kanzure | heh' | 03:13 |
| kanzure_ | ? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA | 03:13 |
| kanzure | oops | 03:14 |
| kanzure | must have had something sitting on the keyboard | 03:14 |
| kanzure | oops, the thing was me | 03:14 |
| fenn | Yuki is in fact a "humanoid interface," or an artificial human, created by the extraterrestrial Integrated Data Entity | 03:14 |
| kanzure | 'This entity grows with the expansion of the universe and the addition of more data.' | 03:15 |
| fenn | which came first, the universe or the data? | 03:16 |
| kanzure | 'Three years prior to the storyline, an extraordinary explosion of data came from one of the islands of Japan. At the source of this odd, spontaneous generation of data, they found Haruhi Suzumiya.' | 03:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: the third option. | 03:16 |
| * fenn claps one hand | 03:16 | |
| kanzure | I've thought about showing up at the local Austin Zen Center, but then I realize that I might as well not | 03:17 |
| kanzure | since it's equivalent. | 03:17 |
| kanzure | erm. | 03:17 |
| fenn | let us walk the way less traveled, and eat a hot dog on fridays | 03:17 |
| fenn | brian is <blink> NOT </blink> going to the zen center today | 03:17 |
| fenn | english spoken language is severely lacking in words to describe quantum phenomena | 03:19 |
| kanzure | also, the <blink> tag is the most terrible abomination in the history of the web | 03:19 |
| fenn | what about MySpace? | 03:19 |
| kanzure | myspace utilizes the <blink> | 03:20 |
| kanzure | so, by inheritance. | 03:20 |
| fenn | they would have found a way to blink even without the tag | 03:20 |
| kanzure | why couldn't *I* have written the 500 million dollar cesspool? | 03:21 |
| kanzure | it's not like the scripts are particularly hard | 03:21 |
| kanzure | select from db, post to db | 03:21 |
| kanzure | nothing hard. | 03:21 |
| fenn | its a network effect | 03:21 |
| fenn | more people using <social website> makes <social website> more useful | 03:21 |
| fenn | especially when it's set up so as not to be friendly with other social websites | 03:22 |
| kanzure | how does that make sense anyway? | 03:22 |
| fenn | data un-portability | 03:22 |
| kanzure | wouldn't you have to be friendly | 03:22 |
| fenn | vendor lock-in | 03:22 |
| kanzure | to get the snowballing going? | 03:22 |
| fenn | no | 03:22 |
| kanzure | apparently not | 03:22 |
| kanzure | but still | 03:22 |
| kanzure | physical possibilities and all? | 03:22 |
| fenn | because there aren't any other sites in the beginning anyway (nothing of consequence at least) | 03:22 |
| kanzure | so | 03:23 |
| kanzure | it's not like these websites are changing | 03:23 |
| fenn | yeah yeah meta aggregate ghost layer yarr | 03:24 |
| kanzure | why don't they just write bots/people to serve as the interfaces | 03:24 |
| kanzure | yeah | 03:24 |
| kanzure | okay | 03:24 |
| kanzure | so it's been thought of | 03:24 |
| kanzure | next subject. | 03:24 |
| fenn | they do, as a result there's a massive spam problem in *-social website | 03:24 |
| kanzure | we've been over this | 03:24 |
| kanzure | heh' | 03:24 |
| fenn | whuff | 03:24 |
| kanzure | not whuffles though | 03:25 |
| * kanzure generally doesn't care about reputation economies | 03:25 | |
| fenn | you know, ustream's automatic censorship policy is 99 times better than #space's policy of forced self-censorship | 03:25 |
| kanzure | #space has a forced policy of self-censorship? | 03:25 |
| fenn | if you say a cuss word they will "remind" you that it's a "family oriented channel" | 03:25 |
| kanzure | what the fuck? | 03:25 |
| fenn | of course, calmly discussing mass genocide is apparently OK | 03:26 |
| fenn | etc and so forth | 03:26 |
| kanzure | family oriented | 03:26 |
| fenn | the funny thing about trying to rid the language of cuss words is that new ones will always show ub | 03:26 |
| kanzure | I assume means christian | 03:26 |
| fenn | up | 03:26 |
| fenn | no, i think it just means "no cuss words" | 03:26 |
| fenn | also, ostensibly religion and politics are banned topics, but the enforcement is not up to par with cuss words | 03:27 |
| kanzure | #space bans politics of space? | 03:28 |
| fenn | i'm not sure | 03:28 |
| fenn | there doesnt seem to be much conversation there except what i initiate | 03:28 |
| kanzure | hah, | 03:28 |
| kanzure | #space_politics | 03:28 |
| kanzure | There's conversation there on a periodic basis when there's NASA streaming some videos | 03:28 |
| fenn | right, there's that, and there's periodic weather-nerds and mars rover nerds | 03:29 |
| fenn | but no discussion of technology or "wtf do we do now" | 03:30 |
| fenn | which one would think is sort of crucial to space exploration/development | 03:30 |
| kanzure | nobody remembers that NASA was a bunch of guys with rockets in their backyards at first | 03:30 |
| fenn | actually they were airplane guys | 03:30 |
| fenn | NACA | 03:30 |
| kanzure | what about the original three? | 03:31 |
| fenn | hence why we have a fucking airplane as a space shuttle | 03:31 |
| kanzure | erm, well | 03:31 |
| kanzure | heh | 03:31 |
| fenn | where's my atomic rocket! | 03:31 |
| kanzure | right where you left it | 03:32 |
| kanzure | under the Jupiter brain | 03:32 |
| fenn | take a left at Dry Wells, NM | 03:32 |
| fenn | </obscure reference="destination moon"> | 03:32 |
| kanzure | Heinlein? | 03:32 |
| kanzure | me fails | 03:33 |
| fenn | i just watched it yesterday | 03:33 |
| fenn | it was pretty good, given the budget constraints and no cold war and no space flight etc etc | 03:34 |
| fenn | at no time was i like "pff thats ridiculous" | 03:34 |
| fenn | unlike most hollywood movies today | 03:34 |
| fenn | they forgot to show the scene at the end where everyone died of radiation poisoning though :P | 03:35 |
| kanzure | I don't mean to be obvious, but have you noticed how terrible the storylines of the hollywood movies are now? we're not talking "Arnold can't possibly take 20,000 bullets in abs!" | 03:36 |
| kanzure | but if you look at the superhero movies and the Omega Man movies etc., there's usually one phrase near the beginning that they always repeat at the end to give it some sort of story line.. like "you suck", then at the end "you no longer suck" | 03:36 |
| kanzure | which is significantly worse than Arnold wrestling down an F18. | 03:36 |
| kanzure | 'erm. sorry. rant ending. | 03:37 |
| fenn | what was the scifi book where there was an infectious fungus whose spores grow in human lung tissue, rendering the planet inhabitable and driving humanity into sealed habitats? | 03:40 |
| fenn | uninhabitable* | 03:41 |
| fenn | that whole flammable/inflammable thing | 03:41 |
| fenn | uninflammable? | 03:41 |
| fenn | i think i learn fast because i have a fast "forgetting curve" i.e. if i learn something and don't hear about it ever again, i wont be able to summon up that memory as easily at a given later time | 03:43 |
| fenn | as someone with a slower forgetting curve | 03:44 |
| procto | fenn: probably means somethng is wrong with your hippocampus :) | 03:46 |
| fenn | i wouldnt be surprised | 03:46 |
| fenn | in high school i think i had several distinct personalities inhabiting me | 03:46 |
| procto | DPD? | 03:47 |
| fenn | i never went to a psychiatrist or anything, in fact i think i mostly expressed it through online role playing games | 03:47 |
| fenn | it wasnt like a total blackout thing you see in movies | 03:48 |
| procto | oh no, I'm quite familiar with DPD | 03:48 |
| fenn | the theory i came up with was that my soul had gotten bored and abandoned my body, leaving it vacant, and then other opportunistic souls took up residence | 03:48 |
| procto | "dissociatve personality disorder". what you see in the movies is the nonexistant "multiple personality disorder" | 03:49 |
| procto | dissociative* | 03:49 |
| fenn | but i functioned just fine and could summon (?) each personality at will | 03:49 |
| procto | right | 03:49 |
| * fenn hates psychological phenomena labeled "disorder" | 03:50 | |
| procto | the DSM IV catalogues many so-called disorders. But the requirement for a diagnosis is that | 03:50 |
| fenn | is that what? | 03:50 |
| procto | it has to affect well-being significantly | 03:50 |
| procto | everyone is a little bit of everything | 03:50 |
| fenn | hrm. according to who? | 03:50 |
| procto | a little bit schizophrenic, a little bit schizoid | 03:50 |
| procto | well, usually according to the person experiencing the issues, combined with opinions of close humands as well as psychiatric personnel, which is totally not a perfect system | 03:51 |
| procto | but the public's perception of the way psychiatric diagnosis is made is very skewed | 03:51 |
| fenn | i was very surprised when (many years later) reading the falun gong book, which i suppose is derived from buddhist mythology, of snakes and foxes possessing people | 03:51 |
| fenn | because two of my inhabitants were foxes and one was a snake? lizard thing | 03:51 |
| procto | they thing somehow if you match a list of symptoms, bam you're suddenly a "schizophrenic" or maybe "schizoid" or whatever | 03:52 |
| procto | think* | 03:52 |
| procto | there is no such thing as an objective evaluation of such things | 03:53 |
| procto | at the same time, there is a sort of fluid consensus reality | 03:53 |
| fenn | "if it affects you" seems like it would have more to do with your environment and expectations than you personally | 03:53 |
| procto | which moves back and forth | 03:53 |
| kanzure | indeed | 03:53 |
| procto | right, excatly | 03:53 |
| fenn | but if my hippocampus is damaged, wtf does that have to do with public perceptions or not? | 03:53 |
| procto | the issue is to observe the friction that your reality may experience with that so-called consensus reality | 03:53 |
| fenn | either it's damaged or it isn't | 03:53 |
| procto | that friction may at times grow very great | 03:54 |
| procto | sometimes this may be merey as far as things such as social more | 03:54 |
| kanzure | "your reality" is what now? | 03:54 |
| fenn | this is why psychologists are a bunch of bullshit artists, because they make everything up on the spot | 03:54 |
| fenn | then they parrot each other and call it science | 03:54 |
| procto | although I rather distrust the general practice of psychology | 03:54 |
| procto | but I would very strongly dispute that assertion | 03:55 |
| procto | much of psychology borders on the pseduo-sciece | 03:55 |
| procto | science* | 03:55 |
| fenn | people still believe freud had something worthwhile | 03:55 |
| procto | but there are many earnest, and more importantly, rigorous practioners | 03:55 |
| procto | very few psychologists do these days | 03:55 |
| fenn | religious practicioners | 03:55 |
| procto | and those never graduate from accredited institutions (not that accreditation is something I rely on. I am merely making a point that it is a fringe idea within psychology as well) | 03:56 |
| procto | in the general public freud gets much greater credence than among psychs | 03:56 |
| procto | which is why there are psychoanalysts still. if there's demand, there will be supply. | 03:56 |
| kanzure | the best psych would be an autist .. because he could be a fish, a turtle, or perhaps a kangaroo | 03:57 |
| kanzure | hm | 03:57 |
| kanzure | people screaming in hallway | 03:57 |
| fenn | aroo? they should make a black market for psychoanalysts | 03:57 |
| procto | I am no great defender of the field of psychology. I have been known to disparage it often. | 03:57 |
| procto | Nevertheless, your assertions in regards to it are largely unfounded | 03:57 |
| procto | to pop the conversational stack a few times | 03:58 |
| procto | as is often the case, it boils down to an espitemological issue | 03:58 |
| fenn | there is no definition of 'proper functioning' so there can be no diagnosis of 'improper functioning' hence the whole naming scheme of improper functioning they have created, which happens to be the entire foundation of their "science" is crap | 03:58 |
| fenn | DSM = the codified naming scheme | 03:59 |
| fenn | i challenge a psychologist to go five minutes without citing something from DSM | 03:59 |
| procto | right. every DSM version that gets further ammended. | 03:59 |
| procto | as I said, the DSM lists a lot of "disorders" | 03:59 |
| procto | but just because you fit the symptoms for a "disorder" doesn't mean you've got a diagnosis | 04:00 |
| fenn | it's a patchwork theory, a good sign that the whole field is rotten | 04:00 |
| kanzure | psychology is more about (not) coping | 04:00 |
| procto | the DSM is more for psychiatrists, btw | 04:00 |
| procto | ok, all I'm getting here is blanket statements about a field... some of which I've shared in the past | 04:00 |
| kanzure | drunk kids not cleaning up their bodily excess fluids it seems | 04:00 |
| procto | psychology is at the taxonomy stage | 04:01 |
| fenn | sorry i get them mixed up usually | 04:01 |
| fenn | they're both bullshit fields | 04:01 |
| procto | sciences go through the taxonomy stage, then the terminology stage | 04:01 |
| kanzure | please stop. | 04:01 |
| kanzure | heh' | 04:01 |
| procto | before they can get to the theoretical stage. | 04:01 |
| kanzure | there is no good that can come from this | 04:01 |
| procto | first the domain must be mapped, hence taxonomy. | 04:02 |
| fenn | i'm trying to figure out how to fix my life and also deal with the fact that psychologists are bullshit artists, so what am i supposed to do? | 04:02 |
| kanzure | fenn: what happened to your computational universalism here, eh? | 04:02 |
| kanzure | "the map is the territory" my ass. | 04:02 |
| procto | just as with physics, many people kept making theories even while the main taxonomy stage was going on | 04:02 |
| kanzure | fenn: fix what? | 04:02 |
| fenn | well i sleep 12 hours a day, have zero motivation, eat way too much chocolate, and generally do nothing but surf the net | 04:03 |
| kanzure | geeze, sounds like | 04:03 |
| kanzure | everyone I know | 04:03 |
| procto | so psychology is right now cataloging phenomena, and in the meantime people are trying to do both theoretical and practical things with what exists, to varying degrees of success | 04:03 |
| fenn | telling me to 'get some exercise' is futile because i dont have the motivation to do that | 04:03 |
| kanzure | steve is like that, mark is like that, I'm sort of like that - can't afford to be sleeping all the time of course (I'll give up Real Soon Now though), | 04:03 |
| procto | don't have time to sleep | 04:03 |
| procto | I work work work | 04:04 |
| procto | I can't wait to graduate | 04:04 |
| procto | so I can work some more | 04:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: my point is that it's not something that needs to be fixe | 04:04 |
| kanzure | fixed | 04:04 |
| procto | I have a day job, and also a startup (working on it right now. I live at my CEO's over the weekends) | 04:04 |
| kanzure | maybe you should just not be around people telling you to fix the unfixable | 04:04 |
| fenn | kanzure: but the thing is i _want_ to do stuff, i dont want to just surf the net all day | 04:04 |
| procto | well, if you think it should be fixed, it may be that you feel that you could increase your utlity? | 04:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: you want to do, what? | 04:05 |
| procto | fenn: I've experienced a very similar state during my 2nd year of college. | 04:05 |
| fenn | i have a list of projects 5 pages long, career-ish aspirations, transhuman aspirations | 04:05 |
| procto | I took a year off and started working. | 04:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: and why aren't they being done? | 04:05 |
| procto | that's where I gained my motivation | 04:05 |
| kanzure | technical problems, yes? | 04:05 |
| fenn | because i sit there and stare at things for two hours and then realize i havent done anything and go lay down for a while | 04:06 |
| procto | I met people who didn't evaluate me based on arbitrary critera, but rather on the quality of my output | 04:06 |
| kanzure | the person taking care of steve, Amy | 04:06 |
| kanzure | Amy was in college, she was in college twice | 04:06 |
| kanzure | the first time around she became "ill" | 04:06 |
| kanzure | in the autistic sort of way | 04:06 |
| kanzure | she literally stayed in bed and didn't move for a few months | 04:06 |
| fenn | ouch | 04:06 |
| kanzure | she might not be the most qualified person to take care of him of course, but she seems to be doing ok now | 04:06 |
| kanzure | steve's so much fun. | 04:07 |
| kanzure | in the sense that I think he could match the 2 hours of staring with 16 hours of staring or something | 04:07 |
| fenn | hrm | 04:07 |
| fenn | this guy saul griffith seems to get a ton of shit done | 04:08 |
| kanzure | saul works down the hall from our CBA contact, or something | 04:08 |
| fenn | and still be interesting and cool and stuff | 04:08 |
| kanzure | eh? | 04:08 |
| fenn | bleh, i dont want to gush about saul griffith | 04:08 |
| procto | ah, I met griffith's HowToons partner a few weeks ago | 04:08 |
| kanzure | fenn: have you tried speed? | 04:08 |
| procto | I'd recommend modafinil over speed | 04:09 |
| fenn | no, should I? what is speed exactly anyway, and why is it illegal in some forms and legal in other? | 04:09 |
| procto | modafinil has nearly no side effects | 04:09 |
| kanzure | I'm on adderall XR for what it's worth, it's some d-amphetamines which is a form of speed | 04:09 |
| kanzure | speed is illegal mostly because methamphetamine is addictive and usually laced with shit | 04:09 |
| fenn | i'm not convinced it solves anything, honestly | 04:09 |
| fenn | name one project you've completed in the last month | 04:10 |
| procto | amphetamines have more "physiological" effects | 04:10 |
| kanzure | fenn: schedule optimizer | 04:10 |
| procto | so hence, I recommend modafinil | 04:10 |
| procto | it gives focus and definition | 04:10 |
| kanzure | are you looking for "results" like "project completion" ? | 04:10 |
| procto | without affecting your perceptions | 04:10 |
| kanzure | that's down the dark side o the force | 04:10 |
| fenn | does nsh do modafinil too? | 04:11 |
| kanzure | hm | 04:11 |
| kanzure | nsh might be naturally extropic or whatever you want to call it | 04:11 |
| fenn | kanzure: i'm looking for results like, "ah, that was a good day" at least once a week | 04:11 |
| fenn | not, "gee what did i do this year anyway" | 04:11 |
| procto | modafinil is basically "anti boredom" | 04:11 |
| kanzure | procto: fenn could be stimulated by a leaf for a few hours on end | 04:12 |
| kanzure | it's not quite the same thing as flat out boredom methinks | 04:12 |
| fenn | that sounds vaguely sexual | 04:12 |
| kanzure | uhm | 04:12 |
| kanzure | not in that way | 04:12 |
| procto | well, I'm sure that can be arranged too | 04:12 |
| kanzure | anyway, the boredom that children complain about is kind of the same thing, kind of not | 04:12 |
| kanzure | right? | 04:12 |
| fenn | its not boredom, its like i'm turned around inside and pushing against myself | 04:13 |
| kanzure | is it the same as when I'm on/off my medication? | 04:13 |
| kanzure | i.e., when I revoke my thinking license for the night | 04:13 |
| fenn | i dont know, what's the difference? | 04:13 |
| kanzure | you guys haven't noticed? | 04:13 |
| kanzure | hm. | 04:13 |
| fenn | sometimes you spew massive quantities of links and sometimes you just talk | 04:13 |
| kanzure | Heh, "the two modes of Bryan". No, that's not it. | 04:14 |
| kanzure | it's usually when I start to forget everything that I was thinking about earlier in the day | 04:14 |
| kanzure | talking in circles or trying to remember how to solve a particularly ridiculous semantic problem | 04:14 |
| kanzure | it's also the part of the day when I start wandering around pacing trying to figure out what to do | 04:15 |
| fenn | i chalked that up to the whole feynman "get a bunch of things bumping around in your head" phase | 04:15 |
| kanzure | chalked? | 04:15 |
| fenn | categorized | 04:16 |
| kanzure | you'd think that after all of these years that I'd have some mechanism constructed to prevent these situations of "what to do what to do" pacing periods, but I've slowly come to the realization that the medication actually helps to solve that problem sort of | 04:16 |
| kanzure | I mean, I could think of a million ways to solve that problem | 04:16 |
| kanzure | i.e., todo lists | 04:16 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/todo.html <- massive todo lists | 04:16 |
| kanzure | but as it turns out, those only work when, surprise, I'm on adderall | 04:16 |
| kanzure | huh | 04:16 |
| fenn | yes i would call "what to do what to do" boredom, and that's not a problem for me usually | 04:17 |
| kanzure | hm | 04:17 |
| kanzure | so you know what to do, all that's left is actually doing it, and you don't want to go do these things? | 04:17 |
| fenn | very easily pacified with a dose of wikipedia :\ | 04:17 |
| kanzure | random surfing doesn't count | 04:17 |
| * kanzure hasn't learned to randomly surf when I hit these points of his days | 04:17 | |
| kanzure | maybe this is a good thing ;-) | 04:17 |
| fenn | t0day i read about "cargo cults" | 04:18 |
| kanzure | cargo cults? | 04:18 |
| * kanzure goes to -- | 04:18 | |
| kanzure | ah, you're sly. | 04:18 |
| fenn | in vanuatu they airdropped all sorts of cargo during WWII for the american soldiers | 04:18 |
| fenn | there came about a religion whereby through imitating american soldiers one could attract the cargo, which came from ancestor spirits of course | 04:19 |
| procto | not just vanuatu | 04:19 |
| procto | they're still quite big in papua new guinea | 04:19 |
| fenn | so they built mock airstrips and radios out of coconuts and bamboo | 04:19 |
| fenn | yes, this is a general phenomenon, extending way beyond just islanders | 04:19 |
| procto | they are especially common in countries with english-based creoles | 04:19 |
| procto | hence vanuatu, where they speak bislama, and papua new guinea, where they speak Tok Pisin | 04:19 |
| fenn | often extending to consumer psychology, corporate culture, and religion in general | 04:20 |
| procto | right | 04:20 |
| procto | it's the confusion of correlation for causation | 04:20 |
| procto | it's a very very general bias | 04:20 |
| procto | that's evolved into us, for increased fitness :) | 04:20 |
| fenn | yay bayesian integrators! | 04:20 |
| fenn | then i tacked over to 'guns germs and steel' which is about why the europeans had all the technology in the first place, and from there to the lost mystical science of Geography, which is the basis for me wanting to move to Iceland | 04:22 |
| kanzure | #wrongplanet.chat/2008-05-08.223020-0500CDT.txt:(2008-05-09 00:25:10) Superkuh: I mean to say that I have no motivation to do anything and am fine with it. ;) | 04:23 |
| kanzure | He has learned the secret! Stone him! | 04:23 |
| fenn | fling poo! | 04:23 |
| kanzure | of all things? why poo? | 04:24 |
| ybit | modafinil | 04:24 |
| ybit | oh how i miss it | 04:24 |
| ybit | i get it in a month | 04:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: it's a very.. primate.. thing | 04:24 |
| kanzure | but the stones | 04:24 |
| kanzure | the mass. | 04:24 |
| ybit | haven't been on modafinil since finding this channel | 04:24 |
| ybit | sadly | 04:24 |
| fenn | let's compromise with pretified dinosaur dump | 04:24 |
| ybit | the todo lists do indeed get completed | 04:24 |
| fenn | petrified* | 04:24 |
| kanzure | ybit: And are the days good days? | 04:25 |
| ybit | yes | 04:25 |
| ybit | i had a massiver turnaround | 04:25 |
| ybit | changed my major | 04:25 |
| ybit | moved to a new city | 04:25 |
| fenn | after taking modafinil? | 04:25 |
| kanzure | hah | 04:25 |
| kanzure | that's some powerful superdrug :p | 04:25 |
| fenn | hey it could happen | 04:25 |
| kanzure | will it teleport me off this rock? | 04:25 |
| fenn | no, you need salvia divinorum for that | 04:26 |
| kanzure | that's still not illegal? | 04:26 |
| fenn | dunno | 04:26 |
| ybit | was working with a friend on something similar to yacy, met phreedom and we discussed freefab intensely.. then it ran out... and i was in a bigger city, and became depressed and moved back home | 04:26 |
| kanzure | I know somebody I was living with in palo alto had tried it before | 04:26 |
| kanzure | michael, namely | 04:26 |
| kanzure | depressed? | 04:27 |
| kanzure | world's going to end and all that? | 04:27 |
| fenn | i'm sort of concerned about taking mood altering drugs and having my personality completely wiped out/unrecognizable | 04:27 |
| fenn | kanzure: anissimov? | 04:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah | 04:27 |
| fenn | zoinks | 04:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah to both. | 04:27 |
| kanzure | It's not so much personality wipe out as it is transhuman upgrade I guess | 04:28 |
| ybit | it was a combination of a girlfriend's death, lots of marijuana, antidepressants, and eventually modafinil that led me to where i am now | 04:28 |
| fenn | i'm confused, you're both saying 1) depression 2) modafinil... happy 3) no modafinil depressed again, right? | 04:28 |
| kanzure | nope, | 04:28 |
| kanzure | I'm not saying any depression | 04:28 |
| ybit | i was just thinking that i do need it because my memory feels shot without it | 04:29 |
| fenn | what do you mean "depressed? worlds going to end and all that?" then? | 04:29 |
| ybit | and i'm so much slower at performing tasks | 04:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: ybit mentioned depression | 04:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: so I was wondering what he meant by depression. | 04:29 |
| kanzure | my dad thought I had depression | 04:29 |
| kanzure | before he learned about asperger's | 04:30 |
| kanzure | and then it was like a saint had touched his shoulders as he began to understand | 04:30 |
| kanzure | this was after he kicked me out of the house | 04:30 |
| fenn | oh, it's very hard to categorize depression, i think its a bad bit of folk psychology | 04:30 |
| ybit | though modafinil also may be used depression possibly | 04:30 |
| ybit | i did have depression | 04:30 |
| fenn | not helped by megapharm corp ssri market | 04:30 |
| ybit | you probably have a point | 04:31 |
| fenn | lol kanzure people often become much more tolerable when you dont have to live with them | 04:31 |
| kanzure | ah. | 04:31 |
| ybit | not sure when i became bipolar though, it was recently diagnosed | 04:31 |
| fenn | kanzure: did anissimov say how modafinil affected his life? | 04:32 |
| * ybit guesses the religious experience | 04:32 | |
| kanzure | fenn: he was doing salvia for a while | 04:32 |
| fenn | i think he would be excommunicated if he claimed having a religious experience | 04:32 |
| kanzure | not modafinil | 04:32 |
| fenn | oh, ok, total crossed signals then | 04:33 |
| kanzure | you also crossed signals on the depression bit | 04:33 |
| ybit | my friend is supposed to send me a paper he wrote during college showing the correlation between religious children and mental disorders | 04:33 |
| ybit | manic* | 04:33 |
| kanzure | correlation between religious children and .. | 04:33 |
| kanzure | was it good statistics, i.e. adjusting for the relative size of religious v. nonreligious children? | 04:33 |
| ybit | eh, mania | 04:34 |
| kanzure | by 'religious' I suppose I mean religious parents, i.e. even parents that are first-generation atheists. | 04:34 |
| kanzure | or agnostics. | 04:34 |
| ybit | good question, haven't seen it yet | 04:34 |
| kanzure | anyway, that's a hard study to do correctly | 04:34 |
| kanzure | (correct in the statistical sort of way) | 04:34 |
| ybit | ah wait, it was kids in cults | 04:34 |
| ybit | religious cults | 04:34 |
| ybit | which is also hard to specify | 04:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: oh wait, that kuhquote is out of context | 04:35 |
| kanzure | his next message was | 04:35 |
| kanzure | #wrongplanet.chat/2008-05-08.223020-0500CDT.txt:(2008-05-09 00:26:43) Superkuh: JoeLlama: Today I made a magetic stirrer for yeast cultures for making beer. | 04:35 |
| kanzure | so surely that day doesn't count. | 04:35 |
| ybit | kanzure, did Mind say he would interview you another time since you two weren't able to do it today? | 04:36 |
| kanzure | Perhaps. | 04:37 |
| kanzure | uhm, I think he said yes | 04:37 |
| ybit | good | 04:37 |
| fenn | good old videophones dont transcribe so well | 04:38 |
| kanzure | agreed. | 04:38 |
| fenn | honestly, how do all those blind genius _cope_? | 04:38 |
| kanzure | euclid etc.? | 04:38 |
| fenn | genii? | 04:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: ever read erdos' biography? | 04:38 |
| fenn | no | 04:38 |
| kanzure | "The Man Who Loved Only Numbers" | 04:38 |
| fenn | was he blind? | 04:38 |
| kanzure | no, but hold on | 04:38 |
| kanzure | one day his good friend bet him to not take his amphetamine for an entire month | 04:39 |
| kanzure | and see if his ideas would still flow and work and so on | 04:39 |
| kanzure | and so, Erdos, having the ego that he did, took the bet | 04:39 |
| kanzure | (for something like $10 or something? it was the 1970s) | 04:39 |
| kanzure | anyway, | 04:39 |
| kanzure | he commented that he would wake up and his ideas simply wouldn't flow | 04:39 |
| ybit | are you using konversation as your chat client now? [kanzure] | 04:39 |
| kanzure | and he would just stare at the paper for many hours | 04:39 |
| kanzure | ybit: no, I'm using pidgin | 04:40 |
| ybit | oh | 04:40 |
| kanzure | so once the bet was over he took the damn money and went back on the meds | 04:40 |
| fenn | often there is a U+FEFF character at the beginning of the line | 04:40 |
| kanzure | my line? | 04:40 |
| fenn | its some kind of unicode byte order verifier | 04:40 |
| kanzure | are my lines bad? | 04:40 |
| fenn | supposed to be a space but shows up as a dotted square in xterm, but otherwise no problem at all | 04:41 |
| kanzure | I sometimes see it in pidgin for weird reasons | 04:41 |
| fenn | so, er, how are amphetamines different from other vasodilators? | 04:41 |
| fenn | like, say, caffiene | 04:42 |
| kanzure | caffeine seems to have the exact opposite effect on me | 04:42 |
| kanzure | namely sleepiness | 04:42 |
| fenn | grragg fscking caffiene fucked up my spelling | 04:43 |
| fenn | the person, not the chemical | 04:43 |
| kanzure | are you seeing people? | 04:43 |
| kanzure | in particular, mr.caffiene | 04:44 |
| fenn | seeing people? as in, romantically? (no) | 04:44 |
| fenn | its that his nick is intentionally spelled wrong and i've typed it so many times i spell the word wrong now | 04:45 |
| kanzure | as in, schizophrenic visions of mr.caffiene | 04:45 |
| kanzure | oh, it's a person on irc? | 04:45 |
| fenn | ya | 04:45 |
| * kanzure didn't know | 04:45 | |
| kanzure | could have been somebody from the history books | 04:45 |
| kanzure | that's what I was thinkig. | 04:45 |
| kanzure | *thinking. | 04:45 |
| fenn | i lost the spelling bee because of the ie ei thing | 04:45 |
| fenn | i spelled it 'protien' | 04:45 |
| fenn | perfectly logical of course, but worng | 04:46 |
| kanzure | narf | 04:46 |
| fenn | they werent very big on etymology | 04:46 |
| fenn | spelling is useless without etymology anyway | 04:47 |
| fenn | otherwise just use the IPA | 04:47 |
| fenn | or bastard alphabets like katakana | 04:47 |
| * kanzure wanted to learn katakana, thinking it was the japanese's mandarin english fix | 04:48 | |
| kanzure | but that has multiple things wrong with it | 04:48 |
| kanzure | namely, mandarin is chinese, not a chinese-to-english fix | 04:48 |
| fenn | confused mandarin with pidgin? | 04:48 |
| kanzure | maybe? | 04:49 |
| kanzure | I thought pidgin was some islander language | 04:49 |
| ybit | fenn, what do you use to scan your books? | 04:49 |
| fenn | pidgin is simplified english used by many island cultures | 04:49 |
| fenn | and chinese | 04:49 |
| fenn | or something | 04:49 |
| kanzure | there's a text-fix for chinese, is what I mean | 04:49 |
| kanzure | there's a text fix for japanese, I know that much | 04:49 |
| fenn | oh, like guo biao? | 04:49 |
| kanzure | we see it all the time on lyrics sites | 04:49 |
| kanzure | guo biao? maybe. | 04:49 |
| fenn | romaji? | 04:49 |
| kanzure | romanification sounds closer | 04:49 |
| kanzure | so probably, yes. | 04:49 |
| fenn | romaji is japanese written with roman characters, like 'konichi wa' | 04:49 |
| kanzure | yes | 04:50 |
| fenn | actually it should be konnichi wa | 04:50 |
| ybit | even though to type it out it's "kon'nichiha" | 04:50 |
| fenn | you can type wa right? | 04:50 |
| kanzure | I thought so. | 04:51 |
| * kanzure knows a little. :) | 04:51 | |
| ybit | ????? = kon'ichiha ????? = kon'nichiwa | 04:51 |
| fenn | dammit xterm is supposed to understand unicode so why doesnt that work | 04:51 |
| ybit | nichiha* | 04:52 |
| kanzure | works in pidgin | 04:52 |
| fenn | works when i paste into another xterm | 04:52 |
| kanzure | wtf? | 04:52 |
| fenn | probly some screen nonsense | 04:52 |
| fenn | yep | 04:52 |
| kanzure | charlie wants me to start a local transhuman group | 04:53 |
| fenn | DO EET | 04:53 |
| * ybit needs a book scanner and binding machines | 04:53 | |
| ybit | -a | 04:53 |
| ybit | and um, scanning* | 04:53 |
| * kanzure needs an automated page flipping mechanism and webcam | 04:53 | |
| fenn | book scanner, ok, why binding? | 04:54 |
| * kanzure doesn't actually need a webcam | 04:54 | |
| ybit | so i can bind the pages of the paper i print | 04:54 |
| fenn | 5MP camera works pretty well for digitizing text (OCR) | 04:54 |
| kanzure | ocr hardly works last I tried it | 04:54 |
| fenn | ybit: but why would you print books if you're trying to get rid of them by digitizing them? | 04:54 |
| kanzure | with the google tools | 04:54 |
| fenn | google has ocr tools? | 04:55 |
| kanzure | in their code repository | 04:55 |
| kanzure | their 'official' ocr projects | 04:55 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/projects/autoscholar/ the image has a reference to the name of the ocr project | 04:55 |
| Nofaris_ | kanzure is an aspie? | 04:55 |
| fenn | i used some adobe thingy in 2002-2003 and it worked pretty well (typewriter font) | 04:55 |
| fenn | kanzure wishes he were an aspie | 04:56 |
| Nofaris_ | lol | 04:56 |
| Nofaris_ | I kind of do as well | 04:56 |
| Nofaris_ | give me an excuse. | 04:56 |
| ybit | i'm not trying to get rid of the books, i simply borrow them from libraries, scan them, and when i'm ready to read, print them out. i prefer regular books when reading for long periods, otherwise i get distracted on a computer ("oooh buttons, let's play") | 04:56 |
| fenn | those damned newtypes get all the glory | 04:56 |
| ybit | though, if i can find a decent ebook reader maybe, i might not print them out | 04:57 |
| fenn | ybit: why not just get them from library when ready to read them? | 04:57 |
| ybit | the olpc would do such a thing | 04:57 |
| kanzure | Nofaris_: I'm technically diagnosed as ADHD, and fenn's observation is more or less correct. | 04:57 |
| ybit | or i could do that, and if i remember a line or a phrase, search for it after scanning | 04:58 |
| ybit | suppose that makes sense | 04:58 |
| ybit | -bookbinding | 04:58 |
| fenn | ybit: http://positron.org/projects/A51/ | 04:58 |
| fenn | unfortunately the evil corporate empires of Amazon and Sony have prohibited such coolness from ever arriving at your doorstep | 04:59 |
| kanzure | now charlie wants to name my transhuman group | 04:59 |
| fenn | pinky and the bryan | 04:59 |
| fenn | maybe that's too cult-of-bryan | 05:00 |
| ybit | fenn: http://spectrum.ieee.org/sep08/6765 | 05:02 |
| ybit | would prefer one of those | 05:02 |
| ybit | the tft display looks too much like a typical display on mobile devices | 05:02 |
| kanzure | fenn: I don't want a cult-of-bryan .. I'm already bryan, I want more/better. | 05:03 |
| fenn | ybit: it's not a typical tft lcd, it's e-ink man! | 05:03 |
| ybit | :) | 05:03 |
| fenn | electric paper | 05:03 |
| fenn | latex microspheres coated with polarized black ink on one side | 05:03 |
| fenn | turn off the power and nothing happens | 05:04 |
| fenn | reflects ambient light | 05:04 |
| kanzure | so, names? | 05:05 |
| kanzure | I would rather have no name, of course | 05:05 |
| kanzure | but this makes it hard to talk about things | 05:05 |
| fenn | plastic logic's big thing is flexible transistors | 05:05 |
| fenn | they partnered with e-ink for obvious reasons | 05:05 |
| ybit | "all hail __ group" | 05:05 |
| kanzure | "We're all individuals!" "I'm not!" | 05:06 |
| kanzure | "Yes! We're _all_ individuals." | 05:06 |
| ybit | eh, forgive the mispelling | 05:06 |
| ybit | don't beat me please | 05:06 |
| ybit | hehehe | 05:06 |
| fenn | is this the jewish peoples liberation front? | 05:07 |
| ybit | fuck no! | 05:07 |
| kanzure | piss off, we're the people's front of judiah | 05:07 |
| ybit | or that | 05:07 |
| kanzure | people's front? I thought we were the popular front | 05:07 |
| kanzure | no | 05:07 |
| kanzure | he's over there | 05:07 |
| kanzure | splitter! | 05:07 |
| ybit | :P | 05:07 |
| kanzure | those men are gods. | 05:07 |
| fenn | the other day i saw "excalibur" | 05:08 |
| fenn | suddenly it all made sense | 05:08 |
| kanzure | hm? | 05:08 |
| fenn | its a terrible king arthur movie | 05:08 |
| fenn | all completely serious of course | 05:08 |
| fenn | but every scene i expect them to break out into some monty python skit | 05:08 |
| fenn | "WHAT is the purpose of the Grail?" | 05:09 |
| kanzure | how about | 05:09 |
| fenn | "WHO does the Grail serve?" | 05:09 |
| kanzure | 'transhuman commons' ? | 05:09 |
| kanzure | That's sufficiently vague, right? | 05:09 |
| fenn | the word "transhuman" sucks | 05:09 |
| kanzure | 'people's augmentation front' would be cool too | 05:09 |
| fenn | Front of Augmenting People! | 05:10 |
| fenn | sorry, bad acronym pun | 05:10 |
| kanzure | heh | 05:10 |
| fenn | oops did i kill it | 05:11 |
| kanzure | I probably need to do a recursive acronym or risk being slain by the gnu hurds | 05:11 |
| ybit | fenn: thanks for the A51 link, there are some interesting projects there | 05:11 |
| fenn | indeed | 05:11 |
| fenn | i think it probably looks not quite as cool close up, due to the way laser cutters work | 05:12 |
| * ybit gets some sleep before his Spanish lesson in the morning | 05:12 | |
| ybit | unaffiliated with the university of course | 05:12 |
| fenn | buona notte | 05:12 |
| * ybit waves goodnight | 05:12 | |
| fenn | i mean, buenos nachos | 05:12 |
| kanzure | noches | 05:13 |
| ybit | buenas noches* | 05:13 |
| kanzure | buenas? really? | 05:13 |
| kanzure | not buenos? | 05:13 |
| fenn | noche is feminine | 05:13 |
| kanzure | huh. | 05:14 |
| kanzure | makes sense. | 05:14 |
| fenn | i guess | 05:14 |
| kanzure | well, which would you prefer, you see | 05:14 |
| fenn | the whole concept of gendered nouns always seemed a bit silly to me | 05:14 |
| kanzure | 'synthetic commons' | 05:14 |
| kanzure | how about that? | 05:14 |
| fenn | like, is a fire truck male or female? | 05:14 |
| fenn | well, it depends if it has a hose or not! | 05:14 |
| kanzure | rosa is red, so it's female | 05:14 |
| fenn | el camion, la camioneta | 05:15 |
| fenn | truck and pickup, respectively | 05:15 |
| fenn | after learning spanish, english-speakers' misuse of the subjunctive tense started to annoy me | 05:16 |
| kanzure | hahah | 05:16 |
| kanzure | 'synthetic commons' | 05:16 |
| kanzure | first result is Kaitlin Thaney | 05:17 |
| kanzure | if you remember, I met Kaitlin up in California | 05:17 |
| fenn | yep | 05:17 |
| fenn | i am male after all | 05:18 |
| kanzure | good, good | 05:18 |
| fenn | describing a 'commons' as 'anything the king doesnt want' seems rather medieval | 05:21 |
| fenn | it doesnt really capture the essence of "this thing we are building together" | 05:23 |
| kanzure | that group is still rather mysterious to me | 05:23 |
| kanzure | maybe I'm just inheriting typical woman-mystique subroutines or something | 05:23 |
| fenn | what group? | 05:24 |
| kanzure | the creative commons people | 05:24 |
| kanzure | she was being flown around 10,000 miles in 8 days to speak at something like a bajillion conferences | 05:24 |
| kanzure | everybody was floored when she started citing her itinerary | 05:24 |
| kanzure | CBA tells me that "the creative commons is like google except less ambitious" | 05:25 |
| fenn | er, where does that money come from? | 05:25 |
| kanzure | but they're fairly damn ambitious | 05:25 |
| kanzure | yeah | 05:25 |
| kanzure | that's what I want to know. | 05:25 |
| fenn | does it all just go into publicity? | 05:25 |
| kanzure | not really | 05:25 |
| kanzure | if you'll remember, ybit's find of neurocommons and their Google Moupse project | 05:25 |
| kanzure | is an example | 05:25 |
| kanzure | turns out Alan, who ybit and I have spoken with, is Kaitlin's coworker etc. | 05:25 |
| fenn | i know PLoS is mostly funded by NSF | 05:26 |
| kanzure | whenever the creative commons shows up somewhere, in person, it always seems like they're working on "something big" | 05:27 |
| kanzure | but they never quite say what or how they're going about it | 05:27 |
| fenn | hah | 05:27 |
| fenn | because their strategy is the reprap 'throw it into the wild an see what happens' | 05:27 |
| fenn | i guess | 05:27 |
| kanzure | don't you have an addiction to cc music or something? | 05:28 |
| fenn | they always seemed like a competitor because of the whole 'which license should i choose, creative commons or GNU-*" thing | 05:28 |
| kanzure | right | 05:28 |
| fenn | no, i dont go out of my way to observe copyright law, unless it's computer code related | 05:28 |
| kanzure | "they're like google but not .. because they only want everything to be free" | 05:28 |
| fenn | but they watered down their name with "a license for everybody" even slaving capitalist scum | 05:29 |
| fenn | enslaving | 05:29 |
| fenn | malglico | 05:30 |
| kanzure | hrm | 05:30 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art/ <-- Since I haven't uploaded my art collection in a while. | 05:31 |
| fenn | its just a bunch of squares circles and triangles! | 05:32 |
| kanzure | don't you mock me. | 05:32 |
| fenn | is this markram? http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art/tools3.jpg | 05:32 |
| fenn | or is that some silly paint smeared on canvas stuff | 05:33 |
| * fenn has a suspicion this is just all the images kanzure has downloaded | 05:35 | |
| kanzure | unfortuantely it's not. | 05:35 |
| kanzure | to the second. | 05:35 |
| kanzure | to the first, I seem to recall it being smeared, but mentioned on or near a page of markram | 05:35 |
| fenn | i added to my bookmarks: http://fenn.freeshell.net/bookmarks.html | 05:36 |
| * fenn doubts anyone cares | 05:36 | |
| kanzure | unknown host | 05:36 |
| fenn | hmm | 05:36 |
| kanzure | added what to your bookmarks? | 05:36 |
| fenn | http://fenn.freeshell.org/bookmarks.html | 05:37 |
| fenn | an extra year's worth of crap | 05:37 |
| * fenn yawns | 05:37 | |
| kanzure | can you give me the adr instead? | 05:37 |
| fenn | it's not an extensive catalog like your monstrosity, just things i find interesting | 05:37 |
| kanzure | the internet archive is ran by aspies. | 05:38 |
| kanzure | or more severe autists. I haven't figured that one out yet | 05:38 |
| fenn | it goes with the job i think (librarian) | 05:39 |
| fenn | how could it be any other way? | 05:39 |
| fenn | try this http://fenn.freeshell.org/bookmarks-09-20-08.adr | 05:39 |
| kanzure | oops | 05:39 |
| kanzure | stupid piece of crap | 05:40 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art2/ more (27 MB more ..) | 05:40 |
| kanzure | erm | 05:40 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/art/art2/ more (27 MB more ..) | 05:40 |
| * fenn sets to downloading | 05:41 | |
| kanzure | you really want to? | 05:42 |
| * fenn shrugs | 05:42 | |
| kanzure | easy to delete I guess | 05:42 |
| fenn | gqview is so fast it's like flipping through a book | 05:42 |
| kanzure | I just use kde's image viewer | 05:42 |
| kanzure | easy left/right arrow functionality | 05:42 |
| fenn | gwenview? | 05:43 |
| fenn | or kuickshow | 05:43 |
| kanzure | 'eog' | 05:43 |
| fenn | you mean EYE OF GNOME? | 05:44 |
| fenn | heretic! | 05:44 |
| kanzure | wtf | 05:44 |
| kanzure | I should have noticed that it's gtk | 05:45 |
| kanzure | it's not like this blends in with the qt stuff | 05:45 |
| fenn | nothing wrong with gtk, its the gnome that bothers me | 05:45 |
| kanzure | what? why? | 05:46 |
| kanzure | am I mixing stuff when I'm not supposed to be? | 05:46 |
| fenn | the 5000 multiply dependent packages that all install a bunch of cartoony crap even though i just wanted a spreadsheet app | 05:46 |
| fenn | gnome in itself isnt too bad (if you dont know any other way) | 05:47 |
| fenn | but i try to keep my system free of the infestation | 05:47 |
| fenn | i like to know what every package does | 05:48 |
| kanzure | so either you're a minimalist or you just like to overload yourself | 05:50 |
| marainein | hey, have you guys seen this talk?: http://www.vimeo.com/1427419 | 05:51 |
| marainein | (it's a proposal to destroy lipofuscin with lasers) | 05:51 |
| kanzure | Not quite yet. | 05:52 |
| fenn | kanzure: think of it as LysoSENS for computers :) | 05:52 |
| kanzure | I'm totally blanking out on lipofuscin. /me hits Google Scholar | 05:52 |
| marainein | the stuff that lysosens is gonna target | 05:52 |
| fenn | is there a way to download vimeo clips without registering? | 05:52 |
| marainein | inside lysosomes | 05:52 |
| marainein | i don't remember registering | 05:53 |
| fenn | i mean download, not just view in a browser with a flash plugin that doesnt really work right | 05:53 |
| kanzure | fenn: I wish I knew all man pages for all packages installed. | 05:53 |
| marainein | I don't know | 05:53 |
| * fenn just reads the abstract on the page | 05:54 | |
| kanzure | apt-get show blah? | 05:55 |
| fenn | lipofuscin stuff | 05:55 |
| fenn | hmm 1/10 full power explodes worms | 05:57 |
| kanzure | microwave? | 05:57 |
| marainein | laser | 05:58 |
| marainein | the lipofuscin in old worms absorbs it | 05:58 |
| marainein | and they explode | 05:58 |
| marainein | but young worms don't | 05:58 |
| bkero | kanzure: My lain dir? | 05:58 |
| kanzure | meep, yes | 05:58 |
| marainein | the laser will only penetrate about an inch through tissue at the wavelength they want, so an obvious problem is how to get it inside a human | 06:00 |
| fenn | stick it up yer ass | 06:00 |
| kanzure | good news! it's a supository | 06:01 |
| fenn | do different organs accumulate lipofuscin at different rates? | 06:02 |
| marainein | i think non dividing tissue has higher levels than dividing tissue | 06:03 |
| fenn | brain, retina, and (other internal organs) | 06:04 |
| fenn | not sure i want an unfocused laser pulse in my eye | 06:04 |
| fenn | and brain surgery sucks in general | 06:05 |
| marainein | apparently it's already been done | 06:05 |
| marainein | "Ophthalmology research has shown that pulsed lasers selectively destroy aged Retinal Pigment Epithelial (RPE) cells that are loaded with lipofuscin, allowing new lipofuscin-free cells to repopulate the RPE, effectively rejuvenating the tissue." | 06:05 |
| marainein | as i understand it, the lipofuscin has a different absorbance spectrum to normal body molecules, which is why a laser on that wavelength will target it only, and not damage anything else | 06:09 |
| Nofaris_ | So awesome | 06:11 |
| fenn | lipofuscin is sort of purplish brown | 06:13 |
| fenn | retinal pigments in general have a different absorbance spectrum to normal body molecules | 06:15 |
| kanzure | '(2008-09-21 02:03:52) maradydd: i'm going to need some controller logic for this electroporator, and i like the idea of building something that i can solder together and then forget about, rather than doing it all in software' | 07:01 |
| kanzure | from over in #diybio | 07:01 |
| kanzure | just because you're all lazy | 07:02 |
| kanzure | except ybit, bkero, and procto | 07:02 |
| kanzure | 'In a New York Times interview in April 1969, Alden Whitman asked writer Vladimir Nabokov: "How do you rank yourself among writers (living) and of the immediate past?" Nabokov answered: "I often think there should exist a special typographical sign for a smile -- some sort of concave mark, a supine round bracket, which I would now like to trace in reply to your question."' | 07:06 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon | 07:07 |
| kanzure | Fahlman is never ,ever going to be known for anything else. | 07:07 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman | 07:07 |
| kanzure | Poor guy. | 07:07 |
| kanzure | 'Fahlman received his bachelor's degree and master's degree in 1973 from MIT, and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. His thesis advisors were Drs Gerald Sussman and Marvin Minsky.' | 07:08 |
| kanzure | I knew it. Minsky's been trying to do ai with :-) alone. | 07:08 |
| kanzure | http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~sef/sefSmiley.htm | 07:11 |
| kanzure | from Tony's end of the world | 08:03 |
| kanzure | http://maps.google.com/maps?cbp=1,361.5599999999999,,0,5&cbll=-37.829295,144.984678&ll=-37.829295,144.984678&layer=c | 08:03 |
| kanzure | click north arrow on the street viewer | 08:03 |
| kanzure | nsh! | 11:00 |
| kanzure | you weren't hit by a hurricane | 11:00 |
| kanzure | so what's your excuse? | 11:00 |
| nsh | friends visited from the uk | 11:00 |
| kanzure | kind of boring. | 11:00 |
| nsh | also, no internet in my new squat^Wflat | 11:00 |
| nsh | relatively :-) | 11:00 |
| nsh | any developments? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | we've been making bets on your (lack of?) use of drugs | 11:10 |
| nsh | how's fat's the pot? | 11:13 |
| * nsh chuckles at own wit | 11:13 | |
| nsh | *how | 11:13 |
| kanzure | it's a exponential plot | 11:17 |
| * nsh smiles | 11:18 | |
| nsh | no drugs of late | 11:18 |
| ybit | fenn, my "fast video download" add-on in firefox lets me easily download from most video sites, including vim | 16:08 |
| willPow3r | ybit: link | 16:08 |
| ybit | "[00:56] <kanzure> good news! it's a supository" :P | 16:09 |
| ybit | willPow3r: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3590 | 16:15 |
| ybit | there are bound to be similar or even better add-ons | 16:15 |
| ybit | kanzure, i like your art | 16:16 |
| ybit | what did you use? | 16:16 |
| ybit | ..to make them | 16:17 |
| ybit | aside from artisitc inspiration :P what were the tools used? | 16:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: I stole all of it. | 18:27 |
| ybit | oh | 18:31 |
| * ybit didn't read that part of the convo | 18:32 | |
| ybit | wonder why i'm so lazy that i don't want to type conversation | 18:32 |
| kanzure | you don't want to type? | 18:33 |
| kanzure | hm, the site isn't loading for me in firefox | 18:35 |
| kanzure | Why do torrents take a dive in speed when the tracker announces? | 19:25 |
| spookact | diving in speed is the #1 feature of the bittorrent protocol | 19:33 |
| fenn | kanzure: do you know anyone from "team prometheus" from n-prize competition? | 20:16 |
| fenn | rocket stuff | 20:17 |
| kanzure | none of that rings a bell | 20:19 |
| kanzure | nanosat competition? /me remembers there being the cubesat competitions, and the pingpong sat competitions, but not nanoset | 20:19 |
| kanzure | *nanosat | 20:19 |
| fenn | some dude from austin wanted to use emc2 to control his rocket | 20:20 |
| kanzure | Oh, this was something from the UK. Yes, I remember seeing it, even posting it on the blog | 20:20 |
| kanzure | did you point him in my direction? there's some people here I can point him towards | 20:20 |
| fenn | no, this was yesterday, i'm just skimming the logs | 20:21 |
| fenn | monroe_l@68.203.16.252 | 20:22 |
| kanzure | http://www.n-prize.com/ | 20:22 |
| fenn | i wonder why the upper limit on payload mass is 20g | 20:23 |
| kanzure | "The N-Prize is a challenge to launch an impossibly small satellite into orbit on a ludicrously small budget, for a pitifully small cash prize." | 20:23 |
| kanzure | "Are we serious? <click to load page ...> Yes." | 20:23 |
| fenn | Entrants are responsible for everything, organisers are responsible for nothing. | 20:24 |
| kanzure | blah | 20:24 |
| kanzure | anyway, we have an experimental rocket group here that does some cubesat stuff, or nanosat or something | 20:24 |
| willPow3r | these [x]-prizes are a lame attempt to get science to go the direction they want it to go | 20:24 |
| kanzure | including ham radio operations on the 12th floor of the aerospace building | 20:24 |
| fenn | willPow3r: so? | 20:25 |
| fenn | willPow3r: got a better idea? | 20:25 |
| kanzure | willPow3r: many would argue that it "spurs innovation!" | 20:25 |
| willPow3r | it does, but they need to dangle a larger piece of cheese | 20:25 |
| kanzure | bah | 20:25 |
| kanzure | $30 million isn't large enough? | 20:25 |
| kanzure | Google Lunar X Prize | 20:25 |
| fenn | no | 20:25 |
| fenn | not even close | 20:25 |
| fenn | apollo cost $50 billion or so | 20:26 |
| willPow3r | not if you can make billions from such an invention | 20:26 |
| willPow3r | or process | 20:26 |
| fenn | not sure how much lunaya cost | 20:26 |
| kanzure | here's my plan right now | 20:26 |
| kanzure | or rather, here's what I'm thinking | 20:26 |
| fenn | er, lunokhod | 20:27 |
| kanzure | Google Maps (or anything else equivalent) backend + mindat.org's mining information and suppliers | 20:27 |
| kanzure | automated procurement with mail delivery to/from these places, as already occurs of course, just in a "web 2.0" friendly framework (whatever that means) | 20:27 |
| kanzure | design/planning system to help you download yer rocket, get the parts, get the space you need to assemble it, blah blah blah | 20:27 |
| kanzure | community collaborative platforms already exist for instance | 20:27 |
| kanzure | then you can do some p2p sharing of specific, discrete tasks on the assembly line .. generated from the design files or some such | 20:28 |
| kanzure | no proof that it will assemble correctly of course, just look at NASA's terrible failure with the metric system on occassion | 20:28 |
| kanzure | closing a few of these gaps should help things along I'd think | 20:28 |
| fenn | so, uh, how do you make sure it actually gets to orbit? | 20:28 |
| kanzure | I was talking in generalities | 20:29 |
| kanzure | rocket is one use of the system | 20:29 |
| kanzure | tracking of rocket is a hard problem like always, no? | 20:29 |
| kanzure | the experimental rockets lab here is piggybacking on some other satellites IIRC | 20:29 |
| kanzure | (the group is like 10 undergrads and a graduate advisor or something) | 20:29 |
| fenn | lamesauce | 20:30 |
| kanzure | piggybacking/bootstrapping is no shame | 20:30 |
| kanzure | how hard would it be to launch a truly freenode in orbit? | 20:30 |
| kanzure | I mean, what's the cost of most of these comm sats anyway? | 20:30 |
| fenn | depends what it does | 20:30 |
| kanzure | after launch, it's just maintaining ground communication facilities right? | 20:30 |
| fenn | often the sat costs much more than the launcher | 20:30 |
| kanzure | sure, the launchers are "off the lot" stuff that costs a few million IIRC | 20:31 |
| kanzure | I'm not well versed in those logistics | 20:31 |
| fenn | something like $10M for a decent size launch | 20:31 |
| fenn | you cant exactly buy a small rocket | 20:31 |
| fenn | also, you're leasing their ground facilities like tracking and comms | 20:32 |
| kanzure | what about comms for a commsat after it's launched? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | just a giant dish somewhere? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | in a few hours - 'Find out the latest MitoSENS news and discuss recent progress with Methuselah Foundation researcher Mark Hamlainen. This is the line of SENS research that received the huge donation from Peter Theil. The Sunday Evening Update is the only place you can get and in-depth interview with a cutting edge aging researchers such as Mark Hamalainen.' | 20:33 |
| kanzure | (only because I'm still sitting in the channel. I lost interest in the stream a few months ago.) | 20:33 |
| fenn | cutting edge aging research is not all that exciting | 20:33 |
| fenn | its not like it will suddenly change everything overnight | 20:34 |
| fenn | maybe some patent race | 20:34 |
| * kanzure still wants the long tail of bloggers (etc.) to have anti-aging research kits | 20:34 | |
| kanzure | even if it's a $500 biochem kit that lets them permutate through a few tests that have to be done on some variables, splitting up the work like torrent trackers split up downloading | 20:35 |
| kanzure | or other work partioning algorithms | 20:35 |
| kanzure | particion? | 20:36 |
| kanzure | partition | 20:36 |
| kanzure | anyway. I think that the framework I've kicking around might be useful. I don't know though. if you get everything into a package to the point where people just have to press a button and follow the cookies, is it going to work? meh | 20:37 |
| fenn | seems like it would cost more than just doing it in a central location | 20:38 |
| kanzure | that's a very minor peanuts excuse | 20:40 |
| kanzure | fine then, centralize it | 20:40 |
| kanzure | what do I care? | 20:40 |
| kanzure | the point is that it needs to be something that others can pick up and work on if it fizzles out | 20:41 |
| fenn | yes | 20:41 |
| kanzure | i.e., keep a dir on a server somewhere | 20:41 |
| fenn | everything should be like that, imho | 20:41 |
| fenn | too bad humans are such greedy bastards | 20:41 |
| kanzure | gimme gimme gimme | 20:42 |
| fenn | hmm so their strategy is to launch a light gas gun into suborbital trajectory, then fire a barium/titanium cylinder horizontally at 16000 ft/sec | 20:42 |
| fenn | it's a pretty good idea i think | 20:43 |
| kanzure | their? | 20:44 |
| fenn | team prometheus | 20:44 |
| kanzure | arbitrary selecion of barium and titanium? | 20:44 |
| kanzure | how'd that happen? | 20:44 |
| fenn | barium so it will burn bright green on re-entry | 20:44 |
| fenn | titanium is strong at high temperatures and lightweight | 20:45 |
| kanzure | http://meg.web.psi.ch/subprojects/calorimeter/prototype.html calorimeter output | 21:05 |
| kanzure | erm, not output | 21:06 |
| kanzure | more like index | 21:06 |
| kanzure | uh, | 21:06 |
| kanzure | xenon photon detector actually | 21:06 |
| kanzure | "What's the difference between national defense against biowarfare and a national health care system?" | 21:15 |
| marcel_inuse | the first one primary saves solders? | 21:51 |
| kanzure | blah, of course they would do that | 22:38 |
| kanzure | session timeouts on the matweb downloads | 22:38 |
| kanzure | I had (most of) the indices downloaded, was going to go fetch all of the rest of the search pages | 22:38 |
| kanzure | erm, of the category pages I mean | 22:38 |
| kanzure | but the session timed out of course | 22:39 |
| kanzure | "error, you haven't used this server in over 24 hours, please come back to me" | 22:39 |
| kanzure | What does '15135dd30619457f902229b03619841a' look like? | 23:24 |
| fenn | an md5 sum | 23:25 |
| kanzure | nope | 23:26 |
| kanzure | I've been talking with the md5crackb0t on rizon, that's no md5 sum | 23:26 |
| kanzure | googling around for some 'hash code identification charts' but they don't exist | 23:26 |
| fenn | why do you say it's not an md5? | 23:27 |
| fenn | anyway, some kind of 128 bit code represented as hex characters | 23:27 |
| kanzure | The hash bot doesn't find a match in its superlarge db | 23:28 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:28 |
| fenn | doesn't find a match? so what | 23:28 |
| kanzure | well, I'm trying to figure something functional out obviously | 23:28 |
| kanzure | matweb is making this kind of annoying | 23:29 |
| fenn | there's 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 possible different 128 bit codes.. | 23:29 |
| kanzure | I mean, it's not enough for them to have a hash for each and every page or whatever | 23:29 |
| kanzure | but on top of this | 23:29 |
| kanzure | they also want you to get a new hash for changing the size of your view or something | 23:29 |
| kanzure | and when I duplicate it, after sitting and waiting in wireshark and extracting the POST etc., it still doesn't really work for the 200 results per page that I want | 23:29 |
| fenn | of course, that way you can just send the hash for an entire session state | 23:29 |
| kanzure | it would be better if I could do 50,000 results per page, | 23:30 |
| fenn | then they look up that hash in their table of clients and serve the page it's associated with | 23:30 |
| kanzure | but they seem to limit at n=200 | 23:30 |
| kanzure | but I can't even duplicate /that/ with wget | 23:30 |
| kanzure | once I get that, it would be nice to get 50k | 23:30 |
| kanzure | yeah, I know | 23:30 |
| kanzure | hrm | 23:59 |
| kanzure | peculiar :) | 23:59 |
| kanzure | http://asia.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=CSPHERE05 | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
