| --- Day changed Thu Sep 25 2008 | ||
| kanzure | undergraduate research fellowship, believe it or not | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | $1k~ | 00:00 |
| fenn | i finally found an ebook of "the humane interface", so now i get to decide whether to read it or not | 00:04 |
| fenn | raskin has some fun stuff on his website, like http://jef.raskincenter.org/unpublished/twestid_wrods.html and http://jef.raskincenter.org/published/i_before_e.html | 00:08 |
| kanzure | what's good about the humane interface? | 00:12 |
| kanzure | humane, not human? | 00:12 |
| kanzure | oh, alsa force reload yay | 00:15 |
| biopunk | hi ybit... sorry for the latency | 00:49 |
| ybit | np | 00:55 |
| ybit | http://jef.raskincenter.org/unpublished/twestid_wrods.html | 00:56 |
| ybit | oh, right | 00:57 |
| ybit | heh, got the link from fenn | 00:57 |
| ybit | good find | 00:57 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyetap | 01:03 |
| ybit | "ePI Lab research strengths include wearable computing hardware and Open Source Mediated Reality software." http://www.eyetap.org/about_us/hilab/index.html | 01:05 |
| ybit | http://www.eyetap.org/research/eyetap.html | 01:08 |
| ybit | http://www.eyetap.org/research/wearables/wearhow/index.html | 01:08 |
| ybit | ^ "In this paper, I provide instructions on how to build a hobbyist's wearable computer system that is modular, easy to re-configure and maintain, etc.. " | 01:09 |
| kanzure | heh, me was browsing eyetap.org the other day | 01:11 |
| kanzure | wearable TV sets? hah. I wouldn't have guessed. | 01:12 |
| ybit | http://wearcam.org/pictures.html -- new one looks much slimmer | 01:13 |
| kanzure | http://wearcam.org/ece1766/pnmpwadd/dusters/v52cropprocund.jpg <-- wtf | 01:14 |
| ybit | heh | 01:15 |
| ybit | example of slimmer design: http://wearcam.org/italian_design/bests/dsc560b.jpg | 01:16 |
| kanzure | I wonder what those head mounts are | 01:17 |
| kanzure | slimmer = costlier? | 01:17 |
| kanzure | http://genesis.eecg.toronto.edu/head-mounted-displays.html | 01:17 |
| ybit | heh, http://genesis.eecg.toronto.edu/steve_vr4.jpg | 01:18 |
| ybit | what's with the antennas | 01:18 |
| ybit | http://www.hitl.washington.edu/research/shared_space/ | 01:20 |
| ybit | http://www.hitl.washington.edu/artoolkit/ | 01:20 |
| kanzure | in the 90s you had HAM, not 8021941941g or whatever | 01:20 |
| kanzure | 802.11g? | 01:20 |
| kanzure | 801.11g? | 01:20 |
| bkero | 802.11n is the new hotness | 01:21 |
| bkero | In the 90s you had shortwave. | 01:21 |
| bkero | You still have shortwave. | 01:21 |
| kanzure | http://engwear.org/ | 01:24 |
| kanzure | erm, stupid link | 01:24 |
| kanzure | nevermind, they've moved to handhelds | 01:24 |
| kanzure | http://www.eyetap.org/wearable/hardwear.html | 01:41 |
| kanzure | aha - monocular display: http://www.liteye.com/ | 01:42 |
| kanzure | http://www.eyetap.org/wearable/wear-hard-07/2007837.html http://jakeofalltrades.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/25-head-mounted-display/ | 01:50 |
| kanzure | Hm. The comments are still being posted to that 2007 post. | 01:54 |
| kanzure | WPT70133 is about $90 to $130 depending on which page you find on the website. | 01:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-31.txt | 01:57 |
| kanzure | http://hackaday.com/2007/10/07/25-head-mounted-display/ | 01:58 |
| fenn | sweet, now all it needs is a gripper arm and a shotgun and i can sample melted nuclear reactor cores | 02:25 |
| kanzure | what's the shotgun for? | 02:29 |
| fenn | shooting at the now solidified melted blob of uranium and assorted nastiness | 02:31 |
| fenn | to break off pieces | 02:31 |
| fenn | i saw it on the Nova chernobyl episode | 02:31 |
| kanzure | I don't understand how they do those headmounts. | 02:34 |
| kanzure | the screens are cheap to buy | 02:34 |
| kanzure | that's fine, I can do that | 02:34 |
| kanzure | but are they using some custom hinges or somethign? | 02:34 |
| fenn | egad 152 comments, time to set up a forum | 02:34 |
| fenn | kanzure: are you asking why they cost $thousands for some lcd screens and a bit of optics? | 02:35 |
| kanzure | yep | 02:35 |
| kanzure | no | 02:35 |
| kanzure | I'm asking how to build the headmount aspect of it | 02:35 |
| kanzure | the fact that it's an lcd and some wires shouldn't matter that much | 02:35 |
| kanzure | what's so special? superpowered headband or something? | 02:35 |
| kanzure | are they just gluing some extension to the back of the lcd? | 02:36 |
| fenn | uh, wha? just get a safety visor or welding mask or something | 02:36 |
| kanzure | that's kind of bulky | 02:36 |
| kanzure | I'm looking at the monocular systems | 02:36 |
| fenn | well how much do you expect the thing to weigh? | 02:36 |
| kanzure | sacrifice one eye. | 02:36 |
| kanzure | I don't care, I just want to sacrifice only one eye. | 02:36 |
| fenn | i have a petzl black diamond headlamp which seems to be a good design head mount | 02:37 |
| kanzure | http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Produit=463 | 02:37 |
| fenn | anyway, flexible elastic like that has to have the weight balanced | 02:37 |
| kanzure | upper left-hand corner | 02:38 |
| kanzure | so just glue it from the front hanging down or something? | 02:38 |
| kanzure | doesn't sound too elegant of a solution. | 02:38 |
| fenn | but a rigid headband like on a welding mask can deal with off-balance | 02:38 |
| fenn | glue is bad, forget you ever heard of it | 02:38 |
| fenn | duct tape too | 02:38 |
| kanzure | so, what's the solution? | 02:38 |
| fenn | zip-ties are almost tolerable, sometimes | 02:38 |
| kanzure | velcro? | 02:38 |
| fenn | velcro is good, carpet tape is good for light weight | 02:39 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_tie | 02:39 |
| fenn | nuts and bolts are best | 02:39 |
| kanzure | hm. | 02:39 |
| kanzure | but on all of the other systems on eyetap.org and such, | 02:39 |
| kanzure | there's always a bit of an extension in use | 02:39 |
| kanzure | instead of it just hanging off of a headband | 02:39 |
| fenn | wow i can get tefzel zip ties | 02:40 |
| kanzure | good for fighting freiza, you se | 02:40 |
| kanzure | *see | 02:40 |
| kanzure | http://wearcam.org/ece1766/pnmpwadd/dusters/v52cropprocund.jpg <-- these. | 02:40 |
| marainein | is something more discrete possible? | 02:42 |
| kanzure | probably, but I'm not interested in discrete really | 02:42 |
| fenn | wow i had no idea petzl made so many different headlamps | 02:42 |
| fenn | marainein: discrete != discreet | 02:42 |
| kanzure | I figure the monocular system is a better idea than not | 02:42 |
| kanzure | oh crap | 02:42 |
| kanzure | *discreet | 02:43 |
| * marainein refines his vocabulary | 02:43 | |
| fenn | why are they carrying ultra large flashlights? | 02:43 |
| marainein | those are phasors | 02:43 |
| kanzure | to appeal to miners? | 02:43 |
| fenn | ok, in foreground is petzl headlamp, background is safety mask | 02:52 |
| fenn | http://www.fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0830.JPG | 02:52 |
| kanzure | how far does the mask extend from actual face? | 02:53 |
| fenn | 2-3 inches | 02:53 |
| fenn | it's very comfortable | 02:53 |
| kanzure | looks like the glass is on some pegs or something | 02:53 |
| fenn | i only wear it for a few hours at a time max though | 02:53 |
| fenn | yes the lens is removable | 02:53 |
| fenn | or whatever you call it | 02:53 |
| kanzure | easy to mount, say, an lcd? | 02:53 |
| fenn | i think i'd make an arm from plastic | 02:54 |
| fenn | and mount it on one of those knobs on the temples | 02:54 |
| kanzure | a locking mechanism with the knobs? | 02:55 |
| fenn | anyway the nice feature of that mask is the knob in the back, which adjusts the headband width (push in to turn, release to lock) | 02:55 |
| kanzure | ah | 02:55 |
| fenn | and they are $12 from harbor freight so its no big deal to chop up | 02:55 |
| fenn | Item 31192-2VGA $3.99 311923.99002ROB | 02:56 |
| fenn | 02:56 | |
| fenn | gah | 02:56 |
| fenn | http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46526 | 02:57 |
| kanzure | I still don't understand the design of such an arm. | 02:57 |
| fenn | more evidence that you are a disembodied AI | 02:57 |
| fenn | take a quarter section of a cylinder about 1 inch tall and radius 6 inches | 02:58 |
| fenn | stated other way: take a 1 by 6 rectangle of plastic, bend to 6 inch radius | 02:58 |
| * fenn knows pi should be in there somewhere meh | 02:59 | |
| kanzure | just a stupid cylinder? | 02:59 |
| kanzure | how would that connect to the knob and i.e. not fall off? | 02:59 |
| fenn | you drill a hole, the knob just has a nut in it which attaches to a nut molded into the headband ( i think) | 02:59 |
| fenn | it goes where the flip up mask would, normally | 03:00 |
| kanzure | right | 03:00 |
| kanzure | btw, I take offense to that | 03:00 |
| kanzure | I'm pretty sure I'm embodied | 03:00 |
| * kanzure pokes | 03:00 | |
| kanzure | okay, I guess I can see something now | 03:01 |
| kanzure | what about the mount to the display? | 03:01 |
| kanzure | besides the obvious answer of a plastic surface on which to mount velcro, | 03:01 |
| kanzure | with velcro on the lcd as well. | 03:01 |
| kanzure | is there a better plan? | 03:01 |
| fenn | hm i must be a vampire, no mirrors.. will have to use webcam instead | 03:04 |
| fenn | gawd xawtv sucks | 03:06 |
| fenn | i give it the "dork-o-rama" award | 03:17 |
| fenn | it hasn't achieve nerdbomber status yet | 03:17 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/snap-unknown-20080924-231450-1.jpeg http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/snap-unknown-20080924-231511-1.jpeg http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/snap-unknown-20080924-231528-1.jpeg | 03:18 |
| fenn | does this make me look fat? | 03:18 |
| fenn | hmm third one is wrong | 03:18 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/snap-unknown-20080924-232042-1.jpeg http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/snap-unknown-20080924-232155-1.jpeg | 03:24 |
| fenn | surprisingly difficult to take pics of the back of your head | 03:24 |
| fenn | so that's the rigid headband, and i think it's the way to go | 03:26 |
| fenn | the flexible band from the flashlight has a plate that pushes against your forehead and it gets uncomfortable after a couple hours (at least as a flashlight you can move it to different positions without affecting function much) | 03:27 |
| kanzure | what's that thingy on the back | 03:40 |
| fenn | the knob to adjust headband size | 03:42 |
| fenn | i think you could easily get rid of the frankenstein knobs because there's a 3/8" square region underneath where the knob mounts, you could turn it inside out | 03:42 |
| fenn | oo At 60 cd/m2, a full-color SVGA+ or SVGA 3D OLED-XL display running at 60 Hz requires less than 250 mW | 03:47 |
| fenn | am wondering how bright is 60cd/m2 exactly | 03:47 |
| kanzure | warning: do not look into laser with remaining eye. | 03:48 |
| kanzure | which one does 60 cd/m^2 ? | 03:48 |
| fenn | this is from emagin.com | 03:49 |
| fenn | its the fluffy marketing page | 03:49 |
| fenn | man konqueror used to be bulletproof, now it crashes constantly and is slow as a dog | 04:02 |
| * fenn suspects the GNU flash plugin | 04:02 | |
| fenn | hrm not installed.. | 04:03 |
| kanzure | gnash? | 04:03 |
| fenn | it used to just not show any flash crap, now it (tries to) | 04:04 |
| * fenn starts chopping away at xml files | 04:05 | |
| kanzure | for what? | 04:05 |
| fenn | there's no way to remove plugins | 04:05 |
| * fenn drops a bloody carcass of excised plugin | 04:11 | |
| fenn | i just realized i haven't double clicked on anything for years | 05:02 |
| bkero | What's a double click? | 05:03 |
| bkero | Is that like clicking twice on something? | 05:03 |
| kanzure | it's an ad server | 05:03 |
| fenn | yes, amazon patented the single click, so all new web developers have to use double click | 05:04 |
| fenn | unles doubleclick.net patented that too | 05:05 |
| kanzure | 21977. | 12:54 |
| kanzure | http://www.dartmouthatlas.org <-- maps healthcare spending in the US according to the extropian mailing list | 12:58 |
| kanzure | http://www.project10tothe100.com/ | 13:00 |
| kanzure | Hm. A lot of good articles were just posted to that mailing list. | 13:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/23/what-went-wrong.html print your own money, local currencies | 13:00 |
| kanzure | Keith Henson complaining about ITR | 13:00 |
| kanzure | ITAR | 13:01 |
| kanzure | and that Google funding opportunity. | 13:01 |
| -!- Phreedom_ is now known as p1tbull | 13:02 | |
| kanzure | Hi p1tbull. | 13:02 |
| * kanzure runs off to class | 13:02 | |
| p1tbull | :) | 13:03 |
| * nsh waves to * | 13:04 | |
| nsh | so | 13:04 |
| nsh | LETS for information manipulation | 13:05 |
| nsh | (local exchange trading schemes) | 13:05 |
| nsh | schemes or systems, i forget | 13:05 |
| nsh | so, the real currency is no longer particularly physical, monitary or laborial capital, as traditionally envisioned | 13:06 |
| nsh | nor specifically information-as-data | 13:06 |
| nsh | but rather the interface of intelligent agent and information | 13:07 |
| nsh | intelligent tranformation of information as the tradeable commodity | 13:07 |
| nsh | what would be nice, in terms of increasing the self-organisational competancy of the microeconomy(ies), would be if the (movement, exchange, flow) of currency itself would be a substrate for computation | 13:10 |
| nsh | an economy is a decentralised, autopoietic (self-maintaining) processing system that projects externalities (information not explicit in the economic data) onto the exchange of monitary and other financial instruments | 13:11 |
| nsh | in-so-much-as the decision-making which informed the flow of currency around the economic network is informed by intelligent, conscious (and to a certain extent, rational) agents, the system acts as a hypercomputer on the explicit economic data | 13:13 |
| nsh | the agents playing the role of 'oracles' | 13:13 |
| nsh | so, the degree to which this decentralised, highly-parallel and oracular computational architecture is efficiently employed depends on the level of accessible complexity in the exchanged values within the economy | 13:19 |
| nsh | as analogy: physically-speaking, there is the same degree of complexity involved in the physics of your computer whether it's on or off, "nature" doesn't suddenly need to devote more of its "computational resources" to the system just because you're using it productively | 13:20 |
| nsh | but when the computer is on, there is 'simply' a massively higher degree of accessibility to the complex physical operations that would be taking place anyway within the molecules of the computer's components | 13:21 |
| nsh | correlations are formed between the internal informational processes of the system (electron/hole dynamics, etc.) and meaningful externalities | 13:22 |
| nsh | (words you're typing or reading, data on the internet, etc.) | 13:22 |
| nsh | in the same way, one could theoretically 'harness' the computational complexity of the information processing inherent to an economic system such that its dynamics were correlated to meaningful, humanly-accessible data | 13:23 |
| nsh | now, in a sense, this already occurs, as any economy is, at heart, a (relatively) robust and resiliant decentralised risk-processing computer | 13:25 |
| nsh | however, as is demonstrated currently by world economic events, the self-organisational competancy, as demonstrated by the resistance to cascade of small-scale instabilities toward large-scale instabilities, of the macroeconomy, well, leaves much to be desired | 13:26 |
| nsh | and, i would suggest it might well be argued, the degree to which the computational processing inherent to the system is productively employed is almost minimal | 13:27 |
| nsh | perhaps vanishingly so: like using a laptop as a paper-weight, you might say | 13:27 |
| nsh | my thesis is that this inefficiency of utilitisation is a consequence of the triviality of information exchange internalised to the system | 13:29 |
| nsh | to wit: money-as-(essentially integer)-number | 13:29 |
| nsh | another possibly apt analogy here would be towards Wolfram's demonstration of a 'complexity threshold' below which only trivial ('random' or highly repetative) computations can be performed by an iterative system (cellular automatic, recursive functions, yadda-yadda) | 13:31 |
| nsh | or the results of the Santa Fe group on the types of complex system, and the optimal zone between predictable and chaotic behavior (class III systems, iirc) | 13:32 |
| nsh | so, the theory is that if, within some (ecology of) Local Exchange Trading Schemes, which -- rather than dealing with essentially trivial 'flat', monotonically-increasing, quantities (ie, any analogue of money) -- process information via the exchange of complex and semantically-meaningful data structures, themselves highly-correlated to each other and/or externalities of the system, | 13:35 |
| nsh | it would be possible to create a form of economic 'super-organism' of intelligent agent-based information transformation, manipulation, and utilisation | 13:37 |
| nsh | (analogy here is to bee and the superorganism of the hive) | 13:37 |
| nsh | *bees | 13:37 |
| nsh | instead of pheremones and physical motility, the communicative substrate would be the internet-facilitated exchange of data-structures representing the commoditised trading of information-manipulation for useful gain | 13:39 |
| nsh | the complexity (and hence self-organisation competancy) would result from the interaction of the agents and the nontrivial information exchanged, and emergent patterns derived from these interactions | 13:40 |
| nsh | coupling to real external interests, in the form of necessities, gain of utility, as well as the darwinian competition inherent to any relatively-deregulated market-based economy, would drive the evolution of the system to greater degrees of functionality | 13:42 |
| nsh | the low latency of internet-enabled communications and the high level of (almost) ubiquitous data-processing capabilities would allow for greater integration of the exchanged commodities (information of value) in the form of long-range correlations | 13:44 |
| nsh | such as are inherent in any physical system which falls under the general banner of superconductivity (macroscopically-quantum dynamics) | 13:45 |
| nsh | such systems being characterised by high levels of efficiency (low resistance, wasted energy) and co-operativity | 13:46 |
| nsh | (low degree of internal antagonism of dynamics) | 13:46 |
| nsh | ------------thought-dump complete-------------- | 13:47 |
| ybit | related to LETS: http://openmoney.info/ | 13:54 |
| nsh | yeah, there are some neat ideas floating about | 13:55 |
| nsh | but they all seem to be struck on the idea of wealth or money as something you measure on a flat line | 13:56 |
| nsh | and move about in simple quantities | 13:56 |
| nsh | like tricking out a chariot as far as i'm concerned | 13:56 |
| nsh | you might end up with a badass looking chariot, but it ain't gonna get you very far | 13:57 |
| * nsh wants a chariot | 13:57 | |
| nsh | fucking sycophants :-/ | 14:23 |
| ybit | class is calling | 14:41 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not understanding why trade has to be the fundamental property. | 17:22 |
| * kanzure_ has read nsh's discussion in ##sl4 | 17:36 | |
| kanzure_ | Everyone of these darned singularitarians is approaching it from the opposite direction, i.e. hearing eli first, not from their own musings and attempts to struggle with the possibility space | 17:37 |
| kanzure_ | this makes it particularly hard to propose alternatives to them. | 17:37 |
| kanzure_ | http://genetrap.org/ | 17:41 |
| kanzure_ | Hi nsh. | 19:27 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not understanding. Why trade? | 19:27 |
| kanzure_ | hrm. There needs to be a better way to seed the repository. | 19:42 |
| kanzure_ | but in the mean time, some code to check for the intersection of design graphs couldn't hurt. | 19:42 |
| * kanzure_ hunts for food | 19:42 | |
| fenn | you said it, nsh, whuff! | 20:28 |
| fenn | now go write a webpage with some annoying CMS and give it a fancy progressive-sounding name | 20:29 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: that can be taken both ways | 20:52 |
| kanzure_ | both in the sense of "uh, implementation" and "ha, I'm making a cunning observation about the still pathetic state of the internets" | 20:53 |
| fenn | that was the intent | 20:53 |
| fenn | but more important is just to get it in a more public form than some irc channel | 20:53 |
| kanzure_ | oh, you were serious :( | 20:54 |
| fenn | no | 20:54 |
| kanzure_ | well, yes, that's true | 20:54 |
| kanzure_ | just dump the logs into an html page I guess. | 20:54 |
| fenn | sure | 20:54 |
| fenn | take the initiative, captain ahab | 20:54 |
| fenn | i mean, uh, oh worthy leader | 20:54 |
| fenn | i guess i'll slap it up on my sad excuse for a webpage and check the logs in a year to see if anyone has looked at it | 20:56 |
| kanzure_ | it's interesting how google doesn't thoroughly index my rants | 20:56 |
| kanzure_ | I suppose I don't link to them elsewhere on the accessible webs, mostly just by linkdroping in chats | 20:57 |
| fenn | the html rants? or wiki rants? | 21:01 |
| kanzure_ | html rants | 21:01 |
| kanzure_ | wiki rants seem to be indexed actually | 21:01 |
| kanzure_ | O.o | 21:01 |
| fenn | that figures. your site is pretty small and should have been completely indexed within a month | 21:02 |
| fenn | so the links are just not reachable from anywhere | 21:02 |
| kanzure_ | front pae | 21:02 |
| kanzure_ | page | 21:02 |
| kanzure_ | also, it's currently at 24723 | 21:02 |
| fenn | dunno. check your robots.txt? | 21:03 |
| kanzure_ | Arlon. Thermabonde-45. Uncured silicone. Thermal management polymer. Maximum service temperature - air - 232 Celsius. | 21:03 |
| kanzure_ | http://arlon-std.com/ | 21:03 |
| kanzure_ | Heh, my multivariable calculus TA sends out emails to his class that are pgp signed :) | 21:09 |
| kanzure | yay, "Douglas Engelbart confirmed you as a friend on facebook" | 22:00 |
| kanzure | gotta catch 'em all | 22:00 |
| kanzure | hah, drug bust in the city. 100 kg of marijuana. | 22:03 |
| fenn | peanuts | 22:03 |
| fenn | austin time exchange network.. sounds like a bad idea | 22:04 |
| kanzure | time exchange? | 22:04 |
| fenn | i can spend 5 minutes fixing your problem, or all day banging my head against a wall | 22:05 |
| kanzure | what problem? | 22:05 |
| kanzure | what? | 22:05 |
| fenn | it's supposed to be a money alternative | 22:05 |
| kanzure | Dale Kipp, Director of MatWeb 2020 Kraft Drive Blacksburg, VA 24060 USA (540) 552-5300 | 22:06 |
| kanzure | Hm. He's on facebook. | 22:08 |
| kanzure | what is it that nsh says? fight the enemy from within or something? | 22:08 |
| kanzure | or was that Luke Skywalker? | 22:08 |
| * kanzure just finished reading part 1 of "Dark Empire" | 22:08 | |
| fenn | it's a saying from the aliens in "aliens" | 22:09 |
| -!- Phreedom_ is now known as Phreedom | 22:24 | |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/starwars/1001.png star wars disappoints me here. | 23:04 |
| kanzure | oops | 23:13 |
| kanzure | wrong hdd | 23:13 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/starwars/1001.png | 23:13 |
| kanzure | Does anybody have a patents torrent? | 23:36 |
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