| --- Day changed Thu Oct 02 2008 | ||
| ybit | http://www.unicornscan.org/ | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| ybit | pk, nooooo! | 02:28 |
| ybit | ... | 02:28 |
| ybit | oi faceface | 02:28 |
| ybit | why are we not subjected to three faces currently? | 02:29 |
| ybit | procto: what exactly is logarchy doing? | 02:53 |
| ybit | sounds like they have a good idea for a future civ | 02:53 |
| UtopiahGHML | ybit: want to apply to Blinkenshell? | 02:53 |
| ybit | UtopiahGHML: sure | 02:53 |
| ybit | if it takes awhile, i will have to do it tomorrow night or this weekend | 02:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | nope the test=10min | 02:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | the rest is getting vouched by 2 persons and that just hanging around in the channel helping | 02:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | if you are social it's like 2 days max | 02:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | then the following day the admin opens you account | 02:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | so in the end if you are "dedicated" you could have it opened tomorrow :P | 02:55 |
| UtopiahGHML | (they "work" on .se time) | 02:55 |
| ybit | i might wait until this weekend when i am most active | 02:55 |
| kanzure | Hi all. | 02:58 |
| kanzure | ybit: skype please | 02:58 |
| procto | ybit: it's just a general framework that can be applied | 02:59 |
| procto | ybit: I'm involved with seasteading, and hoping to have a logarchy up on a seastead at some point during my life | 02:59 |
| procto | thing about logarchy is that it's compatible with different electoral, political, and economic systems | 02:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: nathan and michel on skype if you want to be bothered to have yet another chat protocol | 03:04 |
| ybit | http://www.magcloud.com | 04:05 |
| UtopiahGHML | I need a graph database library in PHP... | 04:07 |
| ybit | UtopiahGHML: http://datamob.org/resources maybe? | 04:09 |
| ybit | http://www.infochimps.org -- i think this belongs on the hplusroadmap wiki somewhere... | 04:10 |
| ybit | or maybe it should just be bookmarked | 04:11 |
| kanzure_ | what is it? | 04:15 |
| UtopiahGHML | ybit: graph as in mathematical graph, networks, not visually displaying data | 04:16 |
| ybit | kanzure: infochimps -- "Free Redistributable Rich Data Sets" | 04:17 |
| kanzure_ | cool :) | 04:17 |
| kanzure_ | http://theinfo.org/ | 04:17 |
| ybit | ah, i visited theinfo.org recently. me likey | 04:18 |
| ybit | UtopiahGHML: http://www.hotscripts.com/Detailed/16749.html PHP+Graphviz tool | 04:19 |
| ybit | a lot of php tools for graphiz: http://www.graphviz.org/Resources.php | 04:20 |
| kanzure | ybit: soon you will have a fancy data set from me | 05:24 |
| kanzure | and throwing it into graphviz will be simple | 05:24 |
| willPow3r | kanzure, one login isn't enough? | 07:47 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, graph database? What doing? | 07:50 |
| faceface | ybit, I have enough face | 07:50 |
| UtopiahGHML | faceface: relational database, no, object database, no, graph database specialized in network oriented datastructure, yes. | 08:18 |
| faceface | yes | 08:24 |
| faceface | what doing? | 08:24 |
| faceface | I wanted to write a MySQL 'graph plugin', but I didn'y get round to it | 08:24 |
| UtopiahGHML | I guess the best thing to do is too look at a real life example : | 08:25 |
| faceface | I had a big 'graph database' hand out at one point... | 08:25 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://neo4j.org/ | 08:25 |
| faceface | kanzure___, are you still interested in this http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v2/n3/abs/nprot.2007.96.html? | 08:25 |
| faceface | or was that last week? | 08:25 |
| faceface | or should I say kanzure | 08:26 |
| faceface | they do good stuff in Gronigen | 08:26 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, OK, I know what a GraphDB is, my question is, what do you want one for? I am curious | 08:27 |
| UtopiahGHML | oh | 08:28 |
| faceface | I am interested in graph queries | 08:28 |
| faceface | specifically traversing ontologies | 08:28 |
| UtopiahGHML | to evolve from a wiki with a classical filesystem or classical DB to a way to handle data it holds in a consistent fashion | 08:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | and be able to have a fully "querable" wiki | 08:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | (mixing user modification and API modification basically) | 08:29 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, its the future | 08:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | thus facilitating automated agent suports | 08:29 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, have you groked SMW yet? | 08:29 |
| faceface | cool | 08:29 |
| UtopiahGHML | nop, doesn't ring a bell, what is it? | 08:30 |
| faceface | I really want to get my head into SMW, semantic media wiki | 08:30 |
| faceface | but I haven't had time | 08:30 |
| faceface | its semantic web for mediawiki | 08:30 |
| faceface | they have a query interface that seems to mirror XSLT | 08:30 |
| faceface | or XPah | 08:30 |
| faceface | it was so strange thinking about hierarchical queries after so many years of thinking about relations | 08:31 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, about 'api modifications', the guy behind DPL is going in that direction with his DPL + graph vis wiki | 08:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | hmmm yep I checked SMW a while ago (>1 year) but it wasn't what I was looking for at the time (too complex for the end-user and too little applications ready, basically very low ROI) | 08:32 |
| faceface | ROI? | 08:32 |
| UtopiahGHML | return on investment | 08:32 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, there is a SMW extension called Semantic Query or something | 08:32 |
| UtopiahGHML | technical cost vs concrete features benefits | 08:32 |
| faceface | OK | 08:32 |
| faceface | this is friendly http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Dynamic_Page_List | 08:32 |
| faceface | ROI ROI | 08:32 |
| UtopiahGHML | having just 23h57 per day you have to think ROI :) | 08:33 |
| faceface | It allows you to combine Wgraph with DPL to generate 'software' in the wiki | 08:34 |
| faceface | http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page | 08:34 |
| UtopiahGHML | hmmm problem is my current wiki is using pmWiki, do those solutions prodive way to "import" existing data? | 08:34 |
| faceface | pmWiki? | 08:34 |
| UtopiahGHML | very flexible wiki | 08:34 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, there are libraries for wiki to wiki conversion, then you need to run MW to enable the DPL / Wgraph stuff | 08:35 |
| UtopiahGHML | but that unfortunately doesn't provide a clear API and can't handle massive amount of data | 08:35 |
| faceface | he is forging ahead | 08:35 |
| faceface | UtopiahGHML, not in a 'live' system... I'm thinking of a one off migration | 08:35 |
| faceface | http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Scatter_Demo_2 | 08:35 |
| faceface | its so cool | 08:35 |
| UtopiahGHML | the good think with MW is... that I guess it has the largest active community | 08:35 |
| faceface | yup, and WP proves its scaleable | 08:36 |
| Utopiah | sorry, irssi crash... | 08:37 |
| Utopiah | faceface: ideally Id use a structure like #OpenCog will use since Im into AI, the thing is (by luck?) my targeted architecture (hypergraph) is also what OpenCog decided to use | 08:38 |
| faceface | what is the open cog? | 08:38 |
| Utopiah | what I consider the more prosiming unifying AI project today | 08:38 |
| Utopiah | (what some like to call "AGI") | 08:39 |
| faceface | Utopiah, ... you want ... your wiki to be intelligent? | 08:39 |
| Utopiah | not really :) | 08:40 |
| Utopiah | what is the structure of a wiki? | 08:40 |
| faceface | what is the way of tao? | 08:41 |
| Utopiah | what is the structure of a brain? | 08:41 |
| Utopiah | the hypergraph seem to be the most ready to use model for a convergence let's say | 08:41 |
| Utopiah | so let's imagine one who would to enjoy what the Net can offer since it's (probably) the fastest evolvy ecosystem today | 08:42 |
| Utopiah | one would want its data organized in a fashion that agent (including remote agents like API from other websites) to "play" with the data | 08:42 |
| Utopiah | eventually seing his system itself as a potential useful other agents | 08:43 |
| faceface | yes, thats the idea of SMW | 08:43 |
| faceface | have you read the 'cyber infrastructure for Biology' paper? | 08:43 |
| faceface | also my friend Vincent has worked on some neat stuff like this | 08:44 |
| faceface | you can find his publications here: http://www.vincent-wolowski.net/ | 08:44 |
| faceface | Building a Semantic Search Engine. Presentation, Department of Chemical System Engineering, Komiyama Laboratory, Tokyo University, Tokyo, Japan, February 3, 2004. [.pdf] | 08:44 |
| Utopiah | 'cyber infrastructure for Biology' ? based on mimetic? | 08:45 |
| faceface | what what? | 08:45 |
| faceface | no | 08:45 |
| faceface | not mimetic | 08:45 |
| faceface | http://nrgwiki.nature.com/cyberinfrastructureforbiology/show/HomePage | 08:46 |
| Utopiah | hmmm the more I look at those WM extensions the more Im considering a switch... what do you think is the core of the MW community? (to check what is available now, what is the spirit, etc... and betting on how it will evolve) | 08:47 |
| faceface | Utopiah, uncertain | 08:47 |
| faceface | see #mediawiki | 08:47 |
| faceface | they are active... there are a few good devs... | 08:48 |
| faceface | Byron is a controll freak... | 08:48 |
| faceface | all revisions go through byron, and thats final | 08:48 |
| faceface | (ime) | 08:48 |
| fenn | control freak? wikipedia? you must be kidding! | 08:48 |
| Utopiah | do you know if there is anything related to the use of GraphDB as the underlying strcture? | 08:48 |
| faceface | heheh | 08:48 |
| faceface | they are not too close to the wp community | 08:48 |
| faceface | they are like... uh... users? | 08:48 |
| wrldpc | wiki is all controlhawks. | 08:49 |
| Utopiah | strange way to see an open community but maybe it's efficient... | 08:49 |
| faceface | Utopiah, no | 08:49 |
| faceface | just a pairs list or something | 08:49 |
| faceface | Utopiah, I wanted to get svn commit access to one extension in the MW svn server - it was a no go | 08:49 |
| faceface | just one extension! | 08:49 |
| faceface | that is why many extensions are developed off site, and also just directly on mediawiki.org | 08:50 |
| Utopiah | I see | 08:50 |
| faceface | There are so many extensions because of an unwillingness to integrate into the core | 08:50 |
| faceface | however... that said... there is a lot of exciting stuff going on in the extension community | 08:50 |
| faceface | esp. bio. | 08:50 |
| faceface | wrldpc, turns out that way for some reson often | 08:51 |
| Utopiah | the last thing that amazed you there? | 08:51 |
| faceface | wikipathways | 08:51 |
| faceface | its a pahtway editor in the wiki | 08:51 |
| wrldpc | does anyone here actually sub to nature? | 08:51 |
| faceface | also (a bit boring) I am excited by the 'data integraton' efforts in MW | 08:51 |
| faceface | wrldpc, http://network.nature.com/people/dan/profile | 08:52 |
| wrldpc | I sent off a rather pointed message encouraging them to go "free." | 08:52 |
| wrldpc | interesting | 08:52 |
| faceface | Utopiah, my MW / bio projects are pretty amazing too ;-) | 08:53 |
| faceface | http://pdbwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page | 08:53 |
| faceface | http://biodatabase.org/index.php/Main_Page | 08:53 |
| faceface | also you should see http://bio.cc/index.html/index.php/Main_Page | 08:54 |
| faceface | wrldpc, write a 'letter to nature', get people to sign it | 08:54 |
| wrldpc | good idea | 08:54 |
| faceface | You just got to cram it all in to 200 words :-) | 08:55 |
| faceface | well... I need to go do my day job... any tips on how to get by on less sleep? | 08:55 |
| Utopiah | more sport, better nutrition but overall the trick is... | 08:57 |
| Utopiah | PASSION! :D | 08:57 |
| wrldpc | hey faceface have you heard of the project John Cumbers from Brown wants to do where people would swab their toilets and mouthes and so on and ... | 08:58 |
| Utopiah | but ... A candle that burns twice as bright and twice as long | 08:58 |
| wrldpc | Does anyone know about this? | 08:58 |
| Utopiah | not sure it exsits, your choice though :) | 08:58 |
| faceface | Utopiah, yeah... I get bored though ... I am a dysfunctional | 08:58 |
| faceface | wrldpc, no | 08:58 |
| faceface | wrldpc, what is it? | 08:59 |
| faceface | 'eco-genomics'? | 08:59 |
| wrldpc | bioinformatics project | 08:59 |
| wrldpc | sorta | 08:59 |
| faceface | like environmental sampling? | 08:59 |
| wrldpc | they want to track where stuff is ... open source, yes envirosamp | 08:59 |
| faceface | its the future :-) | 08:59 |
| wrldpc | bingo | 08:59 |
| wrldpc | have a good day! | 08:59 |
| faceface | you too | 08:59 |
| Utopiah | faceface: how can you be bored in such a time and place... :) | 08:59 |
| wrldpc | thanks | 08:59 |
| faceface | Utopiah, I am 'purpose disoriented' | 08:59 |
| faceface | I don't really know what I want or why... I am conflicted. | 09:00 |
| Utopiah | strange since you seem to have your own projects | 09:00 |
| faceface | anyway... I 'feel' like I should go do my boring day job... Its like a pressure... | 09:00 |
| faceface | I do them in my spare time... hence the need for less sleep | 09:00 |
| faceface | nice talking to you Utopiah | 09:00 |
| Utopiah | my pleasure | 09:01 |
| Utopiah | have a nice day | 09:01 |
| fenn | faceface: try doing your personal projects while at normal job | 09:03 |
| Utopiah | fuck your normal job, move to what you really live for, find a way to monetize it. | 09:04 |
| fenn | well, yeah, but that takes passion | 09:04 |
| Utopiah | indeed | 09:06 |
| Utopiah | but that's when your life really starts :) | 09:07 |
| faceface | anyone married | 09:16 |
| faceface | ? | 09:16 |
| Utopiah | gosh no | 09:21 |
| faceface | heheh | 09:22 |
| faceface | I thought I was taking a job that supported my interests | 09:22 |
| faceface | but it was also a compremize for me and my wife | 09:22 |
| faceface | I think I'll have to become a 'group leader' just to get to work on what I want to! | 09:23 |
| Utopiah | entrepreneur is the spirit | 09:23 |
| Utopiah | and it's a long time investment | 09:23 |
| faceface | OK, lets start a business | 09:23 |
| Utopiah | the risk is not not to bet but not to know that you are betting anyway | 09:23 |
| faceface | I really need someone to talk to about that.... | 09:24 |
| Utopiah | opportunity cost basically | 09:24 |
| faceface | I have a killer idea if we can get to prototype within 6 months | 09:24 |
| Utopiah | well, Im a idea management pro | 09:24 |
| faceface | cool... the problem with 'nextGen' sequencing is that its too good - too much data too quickly. We don't have enough disks. | 09:25 |
| Utopiah | yep | 09:25 |
| faceface | turn the problem on its head - lets encode our DNA data as DNA, then we can store vast quantities of data in a cupboard | 09:25 |
| faceface | we can get massive data transfer rates by shipping DNA using UPS | 09:25 |
| Utopiah | hmmm I met a woman on Berkeley working on a similar problematic but she wasn't going the same way | 09:26 |
| faceface | the idea is to design a 'DNA encoding' that maximizes ease of reading | 09:26 |
| Utopiah | yep I see | 09:26 |
| faceface | exactly, we have a slight edge | 09:26 |
| faceface | the two novel things that we bring together are | 09:26 |
| Utopiah | problem is... cost of "DNA printing", isn't it very brittle and costly so far? (maybe not 2D structures thought, dunno) | 09:26 |
| fenn | lol i have a direct DNA to DNA nano sequencer data storage machine - polII | 09:27 |
| fenn | III | 09:27 |
| faceface | 1) the DNA encoding - lots of check sums and handeling of repeat regions, 2) the 'DNA protectant' molecule that we use to store data at rtp | 09:27 |
| faceface | fenn, its error prone ;-) | 09:27 |
| faceface | Utopiah, exactly, we need to design a micro fluidic dna sequencing chamber | 09:27 |
| faceface | microfluidics is getting very cheap, so its easy to design and print a 'chip' that will controll the flow of ATCG into a reaction chamber. | 09:28 |
| fenn | cost of DNA printing is what all the "retarded polymerase" stuff is about | 09:28 |
| faceface | really? | 09:28 |
| fenn | sorta | 09:29 |
| faceface | that stuff where I was like 'what are you guys going on about'? | 09:29 |
| fenn | it's also for realtime in-vivo expression of arbitrary genes | 09:29 |
| fenn | but whatever, it's vaporware | 09:29 |
| faceface | sure | 09:30 |
| fenn | <- bitter old man | 09:30 |
| faceface | taq isn't expensive though | 09:30 |
| fenn | is the patent up yet? | 09:30 |
| faceface | I need a prototype no? | 09:30 |
| fenn | oh i was just curious | 09:31 |
| fenn | always wanted a vat of e-coli spewing out metric tons of taq polymerase | 09:31 |
| faceface | but my feeling is that there is only a short window on this one | 09:31 |
| fenn | i dont really see what sort of situation would require dna data storage? | 09:32 |
| fenn | i mean what do you do with it | 09:32 |
| faceface | fenn, when I sequence your genome for $10, then the genome of your gut, then the genome of your brain, then again at age 2 and again at age 6 and again and agin, | 09:32 |
| faceface | then stick it into DNA | 09:32 |
| faceface | its a 'permanant record' for re-reading | 09:33 |
| faceface | like a tape backup | 09:33 |
| fenn | why not use tapes? | 09:33 |
| faceface | too expensive | 09:33 |
| faceface | too many data | 09:33 |
| faceface | too slow | 09:33 |
| fenn | is there no compression algo? | 09:33 |
| fenn | i mean you and me are 99% similar | 09:34 |
| faceface | well... | 09:34 |
| * faceface sulks | 09:34 | |
| faceface | but its good to talk about 'alternatives' | 09:34 |
| faceface | I mean a patent needs that right? | 09:34 |
| faceface | fenn, also tissue expression could vary a lot, next gen gives you expression levels, splice variants etc. | 09:35 |
| fenn | dont get me wrong, DNA is a fantastic data storage device | 09:36 |
| fenn | but it's a pain in the ass to work with | 09:36 |
| faceface | it seems to work | 09:36 |
| faceface | ah... you know about any microfluidic considerations when working with DNA? | 09:36 |
| faceface | there is a formidible group in cambridge that develops microfluidics for biotech | 09:37 |
| fenn | um, how do you get past the typo problem? | 09:37 |
| faceface | fenn, checksums | 09:37 |
| fenn | probability of a typo increases exponentially with sequence length | 09:37 |
| faceface | and redundancy... like read correction on any modern disk | 09:37 |
| faceface | I am sure we can think of some 'optimal encodings' | 09:38 |
| fenn | i dont know much about how microfluidics actually works (beyond a popular science level) | 09:38 |
| faceface | also, we need read optimized ... i.e. taylored to certain hardware | 09:38 |
| faceface | you trap a bubble of your aquious reagent in an oil flow. then you can manipulate the bubbles | 09:38 |
| fenn | but how does this actually build up a sequence? | 09:39 |
| faceface | i.e. read off bubble colour, sort, merge, store etc | 09:39 |
| fenn | is it just the conventional modified NTP + cap molecule? | 09:39 |
| faceface | you have a chamber with some fixed primers and taq, then you flow ATCG over the primer... actually I don't know! | 09:40 |
| faceface | that is where my plan falls down... I'm an idiot! | 09:40 |
| fenn | hrm | 09:40 |
| fenn | "where the bits hit the road" | 09:40 |
| faceface | somehow we need to keep taq in the 'reaction chamber' then we need to flow ntp at a time, then we need to get out the DNA and put in new primers. | 09:40 |
| fenn | flow one ntp at a time won't work | 09:41 |
| faceface | why? | 09:41 |
| fenn | either too much diffusion or it's too slow | 09:41 |
| faceface | I don't mean one molecule, just one type | 09:41 |
| faceface | microfluidics is fast, you can process 100's of bubbles per second | 09:41 |
| fenn | my idea was that you sensitize the taq with some frequency of laser and this only allows it to pick up a certain nucleotide | 09:42 |
| faceface | each bubble needs to be one NTP.... and we need to only add one base per bubble... | 09:42 |
| faceface | fenn, any ref? | 09:42 |
| fenn | no | 09:42 |
| faceface | any chem to spontainously 'prime' the end of the DNA for reaction? | 09:42 |
| fenn | not needed, taq does that | 09:43 |
| faceface | DNA-* + NTP -> DNA-NTP + * -> DNA-NTP-* +NTP -> DNA-NTP-NTP + * -> ... | 09:44 |
| faceface | fenn, but I only want to add one base at a time | 09:44 |
| faceface | taq is there ready to add as many NTP's as it can get its hands on right? | 09:44 |
| faceface | or do you controll that with ATP? | 09:44 |
| faceface | I'll need to read up to get more details | 09:44 |
| fenn | well, the idea was to have another "clock" frequency | 09:44 |
| fenn | so you have 3 lasers | 09:45 |
| fenn | 2 spcify the nucleotide | 09:45 |
| fenn | the third cements it in place | 09:45 |
| faceface | I'll do some reading. | 09:45 |
| faceface | I think there is scope for a 'strategic aliance' ;-) | 09:46 |
| fenn | this was some idea i came up with years ago, i honestly have no idea if there's anything out there | 09:46 |
| fenn | " An undefined problem has an infinite number of solutions. | 09:49 |
| fenn | what a bunch of crap | 09:49 |
| fenn | must have been a mathematician, not an engineer | 09:50 |
| Utopiah | that's infinitely unuseful :) | 09:51 |
| kanzure_ | Utopiah: for what it's worth, I too want graphdb or graph-fs, and *not* in semantic mediawiki form. | 11:00 |
| Utopiah | ideally I would find a Lisp wiki using GraphDB... | 11:01 |
| Utopiah | (and super ideally be able to convert my existing wiki instance to it in 1 command ;) | 11:03 |
| faceface | Similarly to concepts in electrical engineering, the objective in the Synthetic Biology is the development of standardized DNA building blocks, which can be easily combined and which allow the reconstruction of cells, e.g. bacteria into bioreactors. Scientists in the Synthetic Biology thereby aim at the development of bioreactors capable of producing far more complex compounds than currently possible using the conventional methods of classica | 11:05 |
| faceface | l biotechnology | 11:05 |
| faceface | http://sb4.biobricks.org/ | 11:06 |
| kanzure_ | faceface: you might be interested in knowing of my synthetic biology circuit creator project | 11:07 |
| faceface | kanzure_, I just pasted for your benefit | 11:07 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/biobricks/ contains my work in progress. | 11:07 |
| faceface | but I'll have a look | 11:07 |
| kanzure_ | faceface: surely you knew about biobricks beforehand? | 11:07 |
| faceface | not that they had a conference | 11:07 |
| kanzure_ | :) | 11:07 |
| faceface | http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/geneart-ag-presents-its-work/story.aspx?guid={3E3BE543-8D0C-4BC1-973C-DD3B37908D76}&dist=hppr | 11:08 |
| kanzure_ | yeah, I'm missing that this year | 11:08 |
| faceface | (when I pasted I didn't realize it was BioBricks) | 11:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/01/AR2008100101149.html | 12:35 |
| kanzure | http://globalnation.inquirer.net/mindfeeds/mindfeeds/view/20081002-164190/In-Crisis-A-View-from-the-Trenches | 12:35 |
| kanzure | http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/300/13/1580 | 12:35 |
| faceface | jama? | 13:16 |
| faceface | google won't let me look at the wahington post | 13:17 |
| nsh | wgat? | 13:30 |
| faceface | good idea | 13:30 |
| faceface | ? | 13:30 |
| fenn | what's with all the wall-street mumbo jumbo? | 13:37 |
| Utopiah | fenn: just bankers requiring explicit forced donations from non-bankers in order to boost their ROI despite the market fluctuations, nothing new really | 13:52 |
| Utopiah | (alias Robin Hood^-1 alias classical world resources redistribution) | 13:54 |
| fenn | i meant why was kanzure posting links to these pointless newspaper articles | 13:55 |
| nsh | the contain encoded messages, clearly | 13:57 |
| faceface | complexity? | 14:08 |
| * nsh was just being glib | 14:37 | |
| bkero | glubglubglub | 14:38 |
| kanzure___ | fenn: received those links from somebody pointing out the commonality of 'complexity' between the recent articles | 17:06 |
| kanzure___ | not sure it has much relevance of course :) | 17:07 |
| * kanzure___ just saved and submitted http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/me302/2008-10-02_terminal_support_final.jpg | 17:08 | |
| kanzure___ | 'part mating' is a joke. | 17:08 |
| kanzure___ | a bad joke. | 17:08 |
| fenn | highly unenlightening, as any drafted diagram ought to be | 17:10 |
| kanzure___ | you already know I'm being prodded into following a workbook :) | 17:15 |
| kanzure___ | what's the longest you've gone writing code without testing it? | 20:36 |
| kanzure___ | bwaahahah. four hours of coding and only one syntax error. | 21:09 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/repo/2008-10-02.pl | 22:39 |
| kanzure | wtf | 22:39 |
| kanzure | I don't remember writing the majority of that .. | 22:39 |
| kanzure | "This goes to the heart of the infamous "Grounding Problem" in machine intelligence and to a pragmatic view of semantics. Simply put, the "meaning" of any referent corresponds with its observed effect within a particular context. No end-to-end grounding is ever ultimately needed nor ultimately possible." | 23:13 |
| kanzure | "This strikes me as especially funny when it involves would-be AI creators imagining that a "relatively simple" computer program could encapsulate a process delivering "intelligence" while they remain blithely unaware and unconcerned about the essential contribution of the layers of software, microcode, electronic hardware, turtles all the way down... (within an environment of adaptation supporting such activity.)" | 23:13 |
| kanzure | "Interesting that the first successful private commercial launch to orbit was achieved right at the peak of the end of capitalism." | 23:28 |
| kanzure | 75359 | 23:57 |
| kanzure | :) | 23:57 |
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