| --- Day changed Tue Oct 21 2008 | ||
| UtopiahGHML | (I also had a "I need all the romz ever" period of my life) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | "White and nerdy" was a title done by Aphex Twins or something. | 00:00 |
| kanzure | Yep, rom hacking to the core. | 00:00 |
| bkero | UtopiahGHML: I still do that. I have every rom ever. | 00:00 |
| UtopiahGHML | bkero: I have a 2 players big wood arcade pad :) | 00:01 |
| bkero | Full MAME cabinet here at work | 00:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | yeah | 00:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | MAME | 00:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | well I don't have the real cabinet but I did dream about it | 00:02 |
| UtopiahGHML | (that was "too much" confession , the whole channel froze) | 00:06 |
| kanzure | Trying to act like I'm doing stuff. | 00:07 |
| UtopiahGHML | stuff, always a good cover | 00:07 |
| willPow3r | i hate it when i forget to take my meds | 01:01 |
| nathan_ | Hello comrads. | 01:01 |
| willPow3r | privet | 01:02 |
| kanzure | Hey nathan_. | 01:03 |
| kanzure | fenn: you awake? | 01:03 |
| kanzure | nathan_: Did my instructions reach you well? | 01:03 |
| nathan_ | they were quite informative! | 01:03 |
| nathan_ | enough to land a newb into an irc chatline. | 01:04 |
| kanzure | nathan_: So maybe you'd like to mention a few bits about what it was that you were thinking of re: software for business automation. | 01:06 |
| fenn_ | ya | 01:10 |
| nathan_ | Yes. To begin, the ultimate goal is the automate the entire workforce. To begin however, the plan is to look at jobs that can be modeled and then transfered into a software package. | 01:11 |
| -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn | 01:11 | |
| nathan_ | kanzure: you mentioned that a large part of university administration could be automated? What sort of jobs did you have in mind? | 01:12 |
| nathan_ | for a bit a background dealing with my assumptions, see effortlesseconomy.com | 01:13 |
| kanzure | Schedule optimization, conflict checking, forms for students to take actions such as adding/dropping courses and so on; scheduling of rooms and keys to be checked out at certain times, grading of assignments (it's the exceptions that people should be eyeing); etc. | 01:13 |
| fenn | much of that is already automated at IU | 01:13 |
| kanzure | Hi drazak. | 01:13 |
| drazak | does anyone know of any work done on biomining? | 01:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: Same here. I still have to go talk with people though. | 01:13 |
| kanzure | drazak: Yes. | 01:14 |
| drazak | kanzure: :D | 01:14 |
| kanzure | drazak: See John Cumbers at NASA and my moontank project (which is currently not up - the wiki and such) | 01:14 |
| nathan_ | kanzure: you mentioned social conflict. What sort of barriers do you foresee? | 01:14 |
| kanzure | nathan_: Corporate culture | 01:14 |
| fenn | unions | 01:14 |
| kanzure | drazak: Tomorrow I'm giving some presentations on photobiomining and extraction processes via centifugation and microencapsulation. Here's a good start: http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/Recovery_of_microalgal_biomass_and_metabolites_-_process_options_and_economics.pdf | 01:15 |
| drazak | kanzure: actually, I was thinking that there might be a way to simply make the metals an excretion | 01:16 |
| kanzure | There's a few papers that talk about that, I've glanced over them in the last 48 hours or something. Uhm. Yeah. People are doing it. Let me see if I can't get you a ref. | 01:16 |
| kanzure | For some reason it's a highly popular topic combined with wastewater / sewage treatment. (wtf?) | 01:17 |
| drazak | yeah | 01:17 |
| kanzure | 'Biosorbents for metal recovery' | 01:17 |
| kanzure | Yeah, 'metal recovery'. | 01:17 |
| fenn | plating factories have a lot of metals-contaminated water to treat | 01:18 |
| nathan_ | Is anyone familier with the work of Stafford Beer? More particularly, Project Cybersyn? | 01:18 |
| kanzure | Hey StormtrooperTK79. | 01:19 |
| StormtrooperTK79 | Greetings | 01:19 |
| fenn | nathan_: i guess not. | 01:19 |
| kanzure | drazak: http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/Acidophiles in bioreactor mineral processing.pdf | 01:19 |
| kanzure | nathan_: I'm looking. | 01:19 |
| fenn | sorta reminds me of jacques fresco | 01:19 |
| kanzure | Oh, you've mentioned it before. Or maybe Eric. | 01:19 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn | 01:19 |
| kanzure | ' It was essentially a network of telex machines that linked factories with a single computer centre in Santiago, ' | 01:19 |
| kanzure | Is shogunx online? | 01:19 |
| kanzure | Hi shogunx. | 01:26 |
| shogunx | you rang? | 01:26 |
| shogunx | heh heh | 01:26 |
| kanzure | nathan_ was just discussing Project Cybersyn. It made me think of your deployments that you've been throwing around down south :-) | 01:27 |
| shogunx | how have you been? | 01:27 |
| kanzure | Been doing well. | 01:27 |
| kanzure | School is .. a lot of work. But good times. | 01:27 |
| kanzure | Yourself? | 01:27 |
| shogunx | plugging away. biz is slow, but then everyones is. | 01:28 |
| shogunx | i wish i was in s. america already with the solarnet... so far just africa. | 01:28 |
| kanzure | I'm fairly certain that's still south of me. I haven't looked at the exact coords though. | 01:29 |
| shogunx | heh | 01:29 |
| kanzure | I wonder if you've plugged into a Fab Lab yet. | 01:30 |
| shogunx | other than my little hackshop, negative, but methinks you are referring to an organized effort of some description. | 01:30 |
| kanzure | You haven't heard of it? | 01:30 |
| kanzure | Hrm, so MIT has these little "build almost anything" labs that they deploy in third world countries. | 01:31 |
| shogunx | negative | 01:31 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FabLab | 01:31 |
| shogunx | thats pretty spiffy. | 01:31 |
| kanzure | Ghana, Sekondi-Takoradi , Pretoria, Soshanguve. | 01:31 |
| kanzure | Any of those near you? | 01:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_fab_lab <-- I hadn't seen this. | 01:32 |
| nathan_ | Iceland... | 01:32 |
| fenn | yeah i wonder what's in it | 01:32 |
| shogunx | ghana is not so far away. i am in nigeria, tunisia, and soon benin. | 01:32 |
| fenn | certainly can't haul around a waterjet cutter | 01:32 |
| kanzure | nathan/fenn - there was something on the openmanufacturing list about a challenge to make a replicator out of a vehicle | 01:33 |
| kanzure | mobile-fablab heh' | 01:33 |
| fenn | mini-cnc mill, laser cutter, vinyl cutter, cnc router | 01:33 |
| fenn | could use a lathe, but i guess that's too advanced for college students :P | 01:34 |
| fenn | the army had a mobile machine shop trailer | 01:35 |
| kanzure | had? | 01:35 |
| fenn | eh, the photos i saw were black and white | 01:35 |
| kanzure | experimental dealy? | 01:35 |
| fenn | this was like WWII | 01:35 |
| kanzure | Hah hah hah! | 01:36 |
| kanzure | Dad just emailed me. | 01:36 |
| kanzure | He found me cited on Wikipedia. | 01:36 |
| nathan_ | Yes, the challenge was to have an autonomous vehicle that could duplicate itself with found objects. | 01:37 |
| kanzure | I was using an analogy to automated milk crate pickup service robots, from the old antique days of milkservice trucks. | 01:37 |
| drazak | kanzure: where? :P | 01:37 |
| nathan_ | MIT's mobile fab lab could easily go in that direction. | 01:37 |
| kanzure | The crates are really a good standard. | 01:37 |
| kanzure | drazak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopunk#Biopunk_as_biohacker | 01:37 |
| fenn | nathan_: making their own tools would be a start... | 01:38 |
| kanzure | WTF | 01:39 |
| kanzure | djkf.a;kjf;fka | 01:39 |
| kanzure | Noah's dad was looking into purchasing the mobile fablab. | 01:39 |
| nathan_ | with the rate of Moore's law, its like $20 now, right? | 01:40 |
| kanzure | Noah is the fellow friend of David (our CBA contact :-) who shows up every once in a while. | 01:40 |
| fenn | what's $20? | 01:40 |
| nathan_ | the mobile fablab. | 01:40 |
| fenn | a milk crate? :) | 01:40 |
| kanzure | Hey Noahj. | 01:41 |
| nathan_ | the milk crate the mobile fablab makes... rofl! | 01:41 |
| Noahj | Hardo. | 01:41 |
| fenn | nathan_: sadly, there hasn't been much research on low cost machine tools in the last 50 years | 01:41 |
| kanzure | nathan_: Did you see fenn's find of the mini machining factory? The 40x40x40 mm beast. | 01:41 |
| drazak | you know | 01:41 |
| fenn | except for recent innovations involving MDF and gas pipe on cnczone... | 01:41 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/manufacturing/minifactory/ has the papers | 01:41 |
| drazak | I bet I could come up with a mini biolab that can do almost anything | 01:41 |
| fenn | but i wouldnt call those machine tools | 01:41 |
| drazak | shy of synthesizing dna and proteins | 01:42 |
| kanzure | drazak: That's what I was doing over the summer sort of. | 01:42 |
| kanzure | drazak: http://heybryan.org/winfree.html | 01:42 |
| kanzure | drazak: There's a way to make DNA and organisms "build shit". | 01:42 |
| kanzure | drazak: bkero was talking about RNA logic yesterday. We were using transcriptional logic, so it was DNA based. | 01:42 |
| drazak | hm | 01:42 |
| fenn | drazak: seems DNA synthesis would be pretty straightforward to miniaturize, and it's fairly common thing to need | 01:42 |
| kanzure | First step is making a Turing pattern turn into this collective growth of sugar crystals .. xp_prg wants to immediately move to 3D cell-manufacturing, but I keep telling him. | 01:42 |
| drazak | you could build dna with reverse transcriptaes, if you have an original sequence | 01:43 |
| kanzure | hrm. Having the wiki down sucks. | 01:43 |
| drazak | fenn: well, I meant so that you can do anything in a short period of time | 01:43 |
| kanzure | I should link to the retarded polymerase project / fenn's writozyme. | 01:43 |
| kanzure | bio is slow. | 01:43 |
| nathan_ | how do I msg direct? or better yet, find a list of commands? | 01:43 |
| kanzure | nathan_: type /help | 01:43 |
| kanzure | nathan_: irssi also has its own set of commands | 01:43 |
| kanzure | nathan_: /msg person hello | 01:43 |
| xp_prg | kanzure I trust you :> | 01:43 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: Have you looked into interface1.php yet? | 01:44 |
| drazak | kanzure: aye, but sometimes speed /and/ mobility are important | 01:44 |
| fenn | or if you want to direct a comment at someone you can type the first few letters of thier nick and press tab | 01:44 |
| drazak | with the /best/ technology, you can have a mobile bio lab for ~30k | 01:44 |
| drazak | :S | 01:44 |
| kanzure | drazak: Are you pulling that number out of your ass? | 01:44 |
| fenn | what is "best"? | 01:44 |
| fenn | with the "best" technology, it'd be free | 01:45 |
| fenn | gratis | 01:45 |
| fenn | well, both really | 01:45 |
| * drazak eyerolls | 01:45 | |
| drazak | you knwo what I meant | 01:45 |
| fenn | not really | 01:45 |
| * kanzure doesn't. | 01:45 | |
| fenn | a chip fab costs about $10 billion | 01:45 |
| kanzure | well, unless you go totally used | 01:45 |
| kanzure | and even then .. | 01:45 |
| xp_prg | kanzure I am at work I can't until I stop working, I will tonight don't worry! | 01:45 |
| fenn | can't buy used chip fabs cause they're still in use (otherwise they wouldnt have built them) | 01:46 |
| drazak | best, as in current technology needed | 01:46 |
| xp_prg | did you ever get your mediawiki back up man? | 01:46 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: No. It will be up Eventually. | 01:46 |
| xp_prg | I have people interested in the project | 01:46 |
| kanzure | xp_prg - send them in here for now | 01:46 |
| xp_prg | well can we move it to a place that they can get to it? | 01:46 |
| fenn | drazak: maybe you meant "satisfactory" or "complete" | 01:46 |
| xp_prg | dude they don't do irc :( | 01:46 |
| drazak | fenn: complete works, I guess | 01:46 |
| drazak | kanzure: that number wasn't out my ass, but regardless | 01:47 |
| drazak | it was a generalization, I haven't inventoried anything, yet | 01:47 |
| kanzure | xp_prg I can zip up the mysql databases for you if you want. | 01:48 |
| nathan_ | asjdfjkl;sdf | 01:49 |
| fenn | damn these new-fangled computers | 01:49 |
| nathan_ | more like gar-fangled. | 01:51 |
| kanzure | Nathan probably needs a tutorial or two for operating irssi. | 01:51 |
| kanzure | pgup/pgdown to see unread stuffs. | 01:51 |
| fenn | i wonder if christian siefkes has ever read "the moon is a harsh mistress" | 01:51 |
| xp_prg | kanzure can you just recreate the wiki some where? | 01:51 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: Probably. If I remember the sequence of commands. | 01:52 |
| fenn | or "footfall" | 01:52 |
| kanzure | The problem is that I have to turn off the server for a sec to move the hdd. | 01:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: funny, my old CS teacher just emailed me linking over to "The Man Who Folded Himself", which was either a Heinlein book too or links over to a Heinlein book about bootstraps and timetravel (sadly about timetravel .. otherwise good titles) | 01:52 |
| kanzure | by 'just' I mean a few seconds ago | 01:53 |
| kanzure | kk, Server dead. | 01:53 |
| kanzure | Ping? | 01:54 |
| fenn | basically any sort of space development results in the possibility of destroying large portions of earth with asteroids | 01:54 |
| kanzure | where'd that come from? | 01:55 |
| kanzure | oh, moon is a harsh mistress | 01:55 |
| kanzure | Sorry. | 01:55 |
| fenn | the "dont do harm" principle argument | 01:55 |
| Noahj | Any sort? Doesn't the ISS fall into that category? | 01:55 |
| fenn | Noahj: the bigger the asteroid, or the faster it's traveling, the bigger the explosion | 01:55 |
| * kanzure asked the engineering study abroad office today whether or not he could do study abroad on ISS. | 01:56 | |
| fenn | E = 0.5mv^2 | 01:56 |
| kanzure | Hey nathan__. | 01:56 |
| Noahj | But the ISS isn't likely to make bits of the earth easier to destroy with asteroids, is it? | 01:56 |
| nathan__ | Hello | 01:56 |
| kanzure | nathan_ -- oh crap. I just disconnected the server, so do not reload the page. It doesn't exist any more. | 01:57 |
| fenn | Noahj: they do a lot of advanced propulsion research on ISS, is that what you're asking? | 01:58 |
| fenn | a VASIMR engine would be useful for blowing up the earth with asteroids, see | 01:58 |
| fenn | but anyway that's just camping, not really development | 01:58 |
| Noahj | I'm asking what you meant by any sort of space development resulting in the possibility of destroying large portions of the earth with asteroids | 01:59 |
| Noahj | *looks up VASIMR* | 02:00 |
| Noahj | Ah. What would you consider space development? | 02:00 |
| fenn | i mean the sort of things useful for moving around asteroids in order to colonize them are also useful for blowing up the earth | 02:00 |
| fenn | or lunar regolith or whatever | 02:00 |
| Noahj | Ooh, that sounds wildly fantastic | 02:01 |
| fenn | welcome to #hplusroadmap | 02:01 |
| elias` | there ought to be a way to index sites like nature, sciencedirect, maybe sciencemag, etc. in a reasonably intelligent way such that you would have a representation of the sites' content that you could incrementally update and also automate the download of the actual content (I think just PDFs in this case) from the index information | 02:01 |
| fenn | elias`: wget -rk -nc | 02:01 |
| fenn | but these sites are by design hard to mirror | 02:01 |
| elias` | that's the crude approach, AFAICS | 02:02 |
| fenn | wget is not crude :( | 02:02 |
| fenn | if i called it a "dynamic agent-based system" would it sound better? | 02:02 |
| kanzure | Noahj: drazak was talking about biomining earlier tonight. So, asteroid colonization, biomining, the reactor work going on too. | 02:02 |
| kanzure | fenn: don't forget to add 'virtual' or 'cyber' | 02:02 |
| fenn | fuzzy | 02:03 |
| Noahj | Hmm. Aren't the laws a little restrictive in the whole launching huge rockets department? | 02:03 |
| kanzure | dynamic fuzzy-agent cyber system | 02:03 |
| kanzure | Noahj: Laws? | 02:03 |
| nathan__ | ok | 02:03 |
| kanzure | Are you going to stop because of laws ? | 02:03 |
| fenn | i think it's generally illegal to launch huge rockets, or explain how to do so | 02:03 |
| fenn | ITAR etc | 02:03 |
| kanzure | "CFD codes are teh evil!" | 02:04 |
| fenn | ITAR is basically "dont do harm principle" codified | 02:04 |
| kanzure | My father asks, "I have a basic question. What are the four or five main pieces of technology one would need to create a synthetic life form that has an intelligence approaching human?" Argh. Guess I have to go down the "wtf is intelligence" path with him. | 02:04 |
| fenn | it also covers centrifuges, six axis milling machines, and biotech | 02:04 |
| kanzure | is that so? | 02:05 |
| Noahj | Intelligence is something that can beat any human at Arimaa | 02:05 |
| fenn | its like they peeked in my bookmarks before writing the treaty | 02:05 |
| Noahj | Unfortunately this definition means that most humans aren't intelligent | 02:05 |
| Noahj | But it's otherwise a good definition | 02:05 |
| fenn | sounds like a crap definition to me | 02:06 |
| fenn | kanzure: you could use the "what if we simulate a brain on a huge computer" argument | 02:07 |
| kanzure | What am I arguing? nonexistence of intelligence? | 02:07 |
| fenn | how to create a synthetic intelligence | 02:07 |
| kanzure | oh, right | 02:08 |
| Noahj | Just hand your dad GEB and Society of Mind | 02:08 |
| fenn | and some ANN and FPGA literature | 02:08 |
| kanzure | Noahj: I'm finally setting aside the time to do a full read of GEB, as it turns out. | 02:08 |
| kanzure | I quote from that book more often than I should .. for someone who hasn't read it. | 02:09 |
| Noahj | I don't quote from that book as much as I ought to, for someone who's read it twice | 02:11 |
| nathan__ | in regard to simulating the brain with computation, first it would need to be reverse engineered, right? This article relates... sprectrum.ieee.org/jun08/6268 | 02:11 |
| kanzure | Maybe I shouldn't readi t at all? | 02:11 |
| kanzure | yeah, reverse engineering of drosopholia or a fly or some such | 02:11 |
| nathan__ | yup. | 02:12 |
| Noahj | Do VASIMR engines actually exist and work? | 02:12 |
| kanzure | nathan__ Do you know about my computational neuroscience works? | 02:12 |
| nathan__ | kanzure: nay | 02:12 |
| kanzure | nathan__ One of my side projects is a cerebellum simulator and a "brain on a disc", a linux distrobution of comp-neurosci packages. | 02:12 |
| kanzure | *distribution | 02:12 |
| fenn | Noahj: yes, but they are too heavy for practical use right now | 02:12 |
| nathan__ | kanzure: that relates well with automating the workforce. ;) | 02:13 |
| nathan__ | kanzure: what steps are you taking to accomplish the "brain on a disc" and would it be an AGI? | 02:14 |
| kanzure | nathan__ It would most certainly not be AGI. | 02:14 |
| kanzure | I have most of the software packages already assembled. What's left is me taking a few hours to read through the "live CD howto" docs to throw it all together into an ISO. | 02:15 |
| fenn | what do you forsee people doing with it? | 02:15 |
| kanzure | farting on it. | 02:15 |
| Noahj | Using it as a frisbee | 02:15 |
| nathan__ | would it be able to interact with a human on human terms? Look at source code and alter it to do what a user might want and such? | 02:15 |
| fenn | yes of course, and blessing it with holy penguin pee | 02:15 |
| kanzure | These packages include NEURON, GENESIS, PDP++, Emergence, all sorts of different packages. | 02:15 |
| Noahj | I've noticed that that's what people do with CDs | 02:16 |
| kanzure | No, it's a collection of different simulation packages, some that do membrane physics, others that do neuron physics. | 02:16 |
| Noahj | And you can't exactly hand them an ISO | 02:16 |
| Noahj | They're all well-trained from the AOL years | 02:16 |
| nathan__ | ahh. | 02:16 |
| fenn | but why go to all this trouble just so people can fart on it? | 02:17 |
| kanzure | fenn: This is why I haven't put much effort into it. | 02:17 |
| kanzure | And thus it is incomplete. | 02:17 |
| kanzure | I wanted to do "building brains", remember? | 02:17 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/buildingbrains.html | 02:17 |
| kanzure | And it just so happens that I got into a "Building Brains" class in uni heh'. | 02:17 |
| fenn | oh well. maybe it will boost your slashdot score | 02:19 |
| kanzure | what is it these days? | 02:20 |
| fenn | +229 croissants, -194 fishbones | 02:20 |
| kanzure | Hey nsh-. | 02:22 |
| kanzure | Hrm. Everyone died. | 02:30 |
| kanzure | fenn: Automated design of genetic regulatory networks for use in the neurofarm ideas .. that sort of thing. Wired in to Mr. Gene or own DNA synthesizers and such; simulations are okay, but at this rate it's easier to just grow the damn neurons than build chip fabs. | 02:31 |
| nathan__ | okay. So I'm preparing to write a draft outlining this automation business model in the spirit of open source. We can observe 1) What are the most abundant jobs that are solely done by computer that is the easiest to automate/program? 2) When these software packages are sold, how will profits be shared? I'm thinking of a universal stock ownership plan, where profits are allocated equally. To solve the "equal pay for equal work" problem. How might tha | 02:38 |
| kanzure | Cutoff @ "How might tha" | 02:38 |
| nathan__ | what computation has been done with neurons in research or in practice? | 02:40 |
| kanzure | What are you asking? | 02:40 |
| nathan__ | have neurons, say in a flask, been used to do calculations? | 02:41 |
| kanzure | yes | 02:41 |
| kanzure | DeMarse, for example, has neurons in a dish flying jets. | 02:41 |
| nathan__ | Thomas? | 02:42 |
| kanzure | yes | 02:42 |
| wrldpc | Does anyone have a link to the biomining Cumbers concept? | 02:46 |
| kanzure | No. John's on the diybio mailing list though. | 02:47 |
| kanzure | Once the wiki spontaneously reappears online, I'm sure I can get you a link. | 02:47 |
| nathan__ | Hrm. so here's a task profs spend a great deal of time on. Grading papers. Rather than reading paper by paper, if it is the usual Q&A format, the prof could place keywords that identify the right answer, or write the answer into a sentence a few sentences in a manner a student might answer the question, and bewm, put the exames into a printer like device that scans the pages, defines what is right or wrong, and issues a grade, no prof red ink require | 02:51 |
| kanzure | nathan__ Around here, we all have a million and one plus ideas like that. Again, it's not so much the technical idea as it is convincing professors to use that system. (And, by the way, I wouldn't bother with professors like that. Grading via keywords sucks.) | 02:52 |
| nathan__ | kanzure: is there language comprehension software that could translate what answer is right or wrong when reading human language? | 02:56 |
| kanzure | No. | 02:56 |
| nathan__ | How long would it take with x amount of people, if such a thing could be determined? | 02:57 |
| kanzure | Huh? | 02:59 |
| fenn | to write a natural language processing system? several years with a good team of talented people | 03:03 |
| fenn | but it's one of those black swan AI things anyway | 03:03 |
| nathan__ | is there an os sofware with that goal in mind? | 03:06 |
| kanzure | My recommendation is to avoid. | 03:06 |
| nathan__ | aiight. | 03:06 |
| nathan__ | kanzure, would you suggest be pursued? | 03:07 |
| nathan__ | [what] | 03:08 |
| kanzure | Some of my work is in big giant number crunching domains .. like automated design via optimization and search algorithms over definable possibility spaces (not natural language stuff). :-) But there's also such things as ecommerce platforms and supply chain tech-upgrades and whatever .. all sorts of things. | 03:09 |
| kanzure | Anything but AGI/natural-language/intelligence. | 03:09 |
| kanzure | It sounds so contrary, doesn't it. | 03:10 |
| nathan__ | well, it needs to be as practical as possible. | 03:11 |
| kanzure | Ah, good. | 03:11 |
| nathan__ | first looking to things that work, like search algorithms, measuring task times, productivity enhacement. That's something known to work. Familier with Marshall Brain's Manna? In the novel, he describes a system that tells a human operator how to perform tasks. I know a guy who uses a system like this in warehouse loading. I don't yet know the company that makes the device. That may be a lead... | 03:17 |
| kanzure | One of the original features of SKDB/OSCOMAK was to output instructions for making parts and systems. | 03:19 |
| fenn | taylor & gilbreth, myeah | 03:21 |
| fenn | minimize therbligs | 03:21 |
| fenn | all well and good for optimizing straightforward problems, but how do you know what data to put into the system so that it can find the path to sidestep the problem entirely? | 03:22 |
| kanzure | I suspect you don't. | 03:24 |
| nathan__ | Its systems like these that are bound to meet AGI at the middle. An assistive program could work using search algorithm of previous entries of a user, as in, acting like an assistant: "I see you've entered in these keystrokes thus far. Do you want to do option A) (most frequently executed activity) B) C) ect. | 03:25 |
| kanzure | How the hell is that AGI? | 03:25 |
| nathan__ | its not. | 03:25 |
| nathan__ | ignore the first sentence. | 03:26 |
| kanzure | Yeah, so have I told you about the "Semantic Search Facilitator" stuffs? Genetic algorithms on top of the words that you use plus connectivity information from WordNet to help you generate permutations and combinations on your queries to get increasingly more (and perhaps better) results. | 03:26 |
| kanzure | Was meant for my Googling habits. | 03:27 |
| fenn | nathan__: according to raskin, that sort of "adaptive interface" is really hard for humans to work with | 03:27 |
| fenn | because we build habits, and then the machine changes on us suddenly | 03:27 |
| fenn | its like if you staircase decided to have one less step | 03:28 |
| nathan__ | kanzure: probably, I just haven't looked into it. | 03:28 |
| nathan__ | have a link? | 03:28 |
| kanzure | Only one, and not really. | 03:29 |
| kanzure | https://www.mit.jyu.fi/agora-center/inbct/InBCT2004/InBCT31/InBCT312_Report_May_2004.ppt | 03:29 |
| kanzure | Even better: | 03:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.cs.jyu.fi/ai/OntoGroup/InBCT_May_2004.html | 03:29 |
| fenn | MIT finland, where do i sign up? | 03:29 |
| kanzure | oh | 03:30 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/2008-07-31/ has some related papers. | 03:30 |
| * kanzure checks out for the night. | 03:43 | |
| Noahj | Goodnight | 03:45 |
| * bkero checks in for the night. | 03:45 | |
| bkero | Good evening, bellhop. | 03:45 |
| * willPow3r wasn't aware that people actually still sleep. this is the 21st century, isn't it? | 03:46 | |
| fenn | sir, there seems to be a problem with your luggage | 03:47 |
| fenn | i've sent it down to security for analysis | 03:47 |
| * fenn whispers to bkero, "it was ... vibrating" | 03:48 | |
| Noahj | Not everyone has enough willPow3r to stay awake. | 03:49 |
| willPow3r | lol | 03:49 |
| willPow3r | willPow3r comes in pill/powder form | 03:50 |
| willPow3r | also time release capsules | 03:50 |
| fenn | oh, shove it | 03:50 |
| bkero | What | 03:50 |
| fenn | coffee enema | 03:50 |
| willPow3r | cooled down first, one would hope. | 03:52 |
| fenn | 37C is about right | 03:52 |
| willPow3r | 98C water up one's anus would not be entirely pleasant. | 03:52 |
| bkero | Why not? | 03:53 |
| willPow3r | i'm just speculating. | 03:54 |
| bkero | How about a pinecone enema? | 04:03 |
| willPow3r | forward or reverse pinecone orientation? | 04:03 |
| willPow3r | i think spikes-forward would be least damaging | 04:04 |
| fenn | i'm sorry i started this, can we all just go back to being friends? | 04:04 |
| fenn | bkero: still in new yawk? | 04:05 |
| bkero | Yes. | 04:06 |
| bkero | For another couple months I'm afraid. | 04:07 |
| bkero | Unless google sees fit to move me to Mountain View. | 04:07 |
| willPow3r | bkero, have you been to mountain view? | 04:07 |
| bkero | I lived in the bay area for 3 years. | 04:07 |
| bkero | Yes, I've been to Mountain View. | 04:07 |
| bkero | It's preferably to Manhattan IMHO. | 04:08 |
| willPow3r | nice. | 04:08 |
| willPow3r | i didn't really like it there, at least compared to san diego | 04:08 |
| bkero | It's not so bad | 04:09 |
| willPow3r | but i can imagine it being completely different than NY | 04:09 |
| bkero | Once you get used to being another face in the crowd. | 04:09 |
| willPow3r | heh | 04:09 |
| willPow3r | dont you have to drive a prius to live there? | 04:09 |
| bkero | That's a pretty big misconception. | 04:09 |
| willPow3r | about the bay? | 04:10 |
| willPow3r | or ny | 04:10 |
| bkero | You'll get ostracized if you drive something big and shitty for no reason. | 04:10 |
| bkero | And I support that. | 04:10 |
| bkero | In New York you just don't own a car. | 04:10 |
| willPow3r | that seems like such an interesting lifestyle to me | 04:11 |
| willPow3r | not owning a car | 04:11 |
| bkero | I'd rather build a car. | 04:11 |
| bkero | Or ride an electric bicycle. ;) | 04:11 |
| willPow3r | motorcycles are efficient | 04:12 |
| willPow3r | you could also go the jetpack route | 04:13 |
| bkero | Motorcycles are sort of efficient. | 04:14 |
| bkero | Not nearly as efficient as I'd like. | 04:14 |
| bkero | Go look up what the efficiency is on internal combustion engines. | 04:14 |
| willPow3r | pretty low, like 22% or something | 04:14 |
| willPow3r | are they producing hybrid bikes yet? | 04:15 |
| bkero | Uh | 04:15 |
| bkero | The military is making diesel motorcycles | 04:16 |
| bkero | Does that count? | 04:16 |
| willPow3r | not really what i had in mind | 04:16 |
| willPow3r | diesel engines are designed for high-torque applications | 04:17 |
| willPow3r | why are they putting them on bikes? | 04:17 |
| bkero | Yes they are :p | 04:17 |
| bkero | Diesel engines are VERY high torque | 04:17 |
| willPow3r | link? | 04:18 |
| bkero | uh | 04:18 |
| bkero | http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/dieselTorque.html | 04:18 |
| willPow3r | thx | 04:18 |
| bkero | Higher compression | 04:18 |
| willPow3r | i was looking to see why they're being put on motorcycles. | 04:19 |
| bkero | fuel consumption | 04:19 |
| bkero | 96mpg | 04:20 |
| fenn | a folding electric moped like this would be about right: http://www.coroflot.com/public/individual_set.asp?individual_id=89369&set_id=34598 | 04:22 |
| willPow3r | looks like most motorcycles get about half that | 04:23 |
| fenn | motorcycles have terrible gas efficiency for the load they move | 04:23 |
| willPow3r | http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=6963 | 04:24 |
| willPow3r | the honda unicorn gets 129 mpg | 04:25 |
| willPow3r | standard ICE | 04:25 |
| fenn | that looks like my honda from 1982 | 04:25 |
| fenn | except the exhaust pipe is black | 04:25 |
| fenn | http://www.motorcycleminnesota.com/110103/10/image1.jpg | 04:26 |
| willPow3r | that's your bike? | 04:27 |
| fenn | same model | 04:27 |
| willPow3r | pretty sweet | 04:27 |
| fenn | i never ride it though so it's a bit dusty :) | 04:27 |
| willPow3r | not your typical rice rocket | 04:27 |
| -!- percent is now known as jihaaaaad | 04:47 | |
| ybit | why is there an 'internet on/off' button on the modem | 04:54 |
| ybit | i thought the isp might be having problems, not that kind of problem | 04:54 |
| jihaaaaad | why are you gay | 04:57 |
| jihaaaaad | why | 04:58 |
| jihaaaaad | explain that | 04:58 |
| fenn | an accidental brain imprinting when i was 10 | 04:58 |
| jihaaaaad | Well, we knew that | 04:58 |
| jihaaaaad | I was asking ybit | 04:58 |
| fenn | our society has no initiation rituals you see, so it's just left up to chance | 04:58 |
| -!- jihaaaaad is now known as percent | 04:58 | |
| percent | Just to show my true face. | 04:58 |
| -!- percent is now known as jihaaaad | 04:58 | |
| UtopiahGHML | SensorWeb 2.0: Service-Oriented Middleware for Heterogeneous Sensor Networks | 08:00 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://www.gridbus.org/sensorweb/SensorWeb2-0_Release_Notes.pdf | 08:00 |
| faceface | kanzure, I just watched your biotech you toob git tutorial | 08:15 |
| faceface | its nice, if only because you list some of the features of the project. | 08:15 |
| jonathan_ | i'm looking for mr. bryan | 08:43 |
| jonathan_ | bishop | 08:44 |
| jonathan_ | and if anyone has successfully installed libsbml on OS/X let me know | 08:44 |
| UtopiahGHML | hi jonathan_ , you could ask kanzure I think he knows him | 08:48 |
| fenn | my sarcasm detector is going off.. | 08:54 |
| fenn | jonathan_: you might have better luck in #bioinformatics | 08:55 |
| fenn | bryan seems to be on a standard sleep schedule lately | 08:56 |
| jonathan_ | cynics often mistake politeness for sarcasm lol | 08:57 |
| fenn | i'm working on graphing sleep schedules right now: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/sleepz/test.html | 08:58 |
| fenn | (blue = sleep) | 08:58 |
| UtopiahGHML | fenn: how do you log that? | 08:58 |
| UtopiahGHML | lightbulb sensor? :) | 08:59 |
| fenn | its a text file that i obsessively log every activity in | 08:59 |
| UtopiahGHML | you do it manually? | 09:00 |
| fenn | that's the beginning from 3 years ago, so there's some gaps (wasnt in the habit yet) | 09:00 |
| UtopiahGHML | what's the result? the added value so far? | 09:00 |
| fenn | um, pretty colored boxes arent enough for you? | 09:00 |
| UtopiahGHML | I guess you analyze them | 09:01 |
| fenn | that's what i'm doing right now | 09:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | a friend of mine is working on a personal life logger | 09:01 |
| UtopiahGHML | I guess he'd enjoy seing the result of your work | 09:02 |
| fenn | ok | 09:02 |
| fenn | i was thinking of sending my logs + parser to the supermemo guy | 09:02 |
| jonathan_ | if you blur your eyes it looks like the coast of italy | 09:02 |
| fenn | hah | 09:03 |
| UtopiahGHML | with Corsica? | 09:03 |
| UtopiahGHML | need to blur your mind a bit to but... yep i can see it ;) | 09:03 |
| fenn | i'll add a few more months so you can see some trends | 09:03 |
| jonathan_ | "Nocturnal bifurcation scheduling yields self-similarity cycles to continental plate techtonics" | 09:04 |
| UtopiahGHML | fenn: and eventually detect patterns and propose improvements, Id totally use that | 09:05 |
| fenn | ok reloadski | 09:06 |
| jonathan_ | your circadian rhythm clearly has some drift to it | 09:17 |
| fenn | indeed | 09:18 |
| fenn | hence why i am awake at 5 am | 09:18 |
| jonathan_ | try replacing your lightbulbs with full spectrum florescents | 09:18 |
| jonathan_ | or get married to an accountant-type | 09:20 |
| fenn | why an accountant? | 09:20 |
| jonathan_ | they are very strict schedule types usually | 09:21 |
| jonathan_ | and follow rules boringly & rigidly | 09:21 |
| fenn | hm, the period when i'm awake in the daytime was my bike tour | 09:22 |
| jonathan_ | or you could get some pet birds. meh. 100% guaranteed to wake up | 09:22 |
| fenn | i have a couple "pet" roosters | 09:22 |
| fenn | result = i want to kill them, every day | 09:22 |
| fenn | but usually i just go back to sleep | 09:23 |
| UtopiahGHML | best thing to do to sleep well for me : sport 45min per day | 09:38 |
| UtopiahGHML | (before 8pm and light meal in the evening) | 09:38 |
| kanzure | Server randomly cutoff last night. | 12:07 |
| kanzure | Power supply this time. | 12:07 |
| kanzure | http://sl4.org/chat/ | 12:34 |
| kanzure | http://transmissionsfrombeyond.com | 12:36 |
| jonathan_ | anyone know if a team has ever built "POSaM: a fast, flexible, open-source, inkjet oligonucleotide synthesizer and microarrayer" | 15:57 |
| faceface | jonathan_, sounds good | 16:30 |
| jihaaaad | Sup, gentlemen? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | http://www.wired.com/techbiz/startups/magazine/16-11/ff_openmanufacturing?currentPage=all | 17:06 |
| kanzure | WTF | 17:06 |
| kanzure | Oh. Just Arduino. | 17:07 |
| kanzure | jonathan_: Those guys have. | 17:09 |
| kanzure | The POSAM guys I mean. | 17:09 |
| kanzure | http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ | 17:09 |
| faceface | I can't get graphviz working under R, can someone plot this graph for me? http://pastebin.com/d7dac2a8b | 17:09 |
| bkero | You crazy fringe scientists. | 17:09 |
| faceface | A B pairs are edges, count(*) is edge weight | 17:09 |
| faceface | I wanted something quick, but Rgraphviz is just a pain | 17:09 |
| bkero | I usually use jpgraph | 17:09 |
| bkero | I hear good things about pygraph though. | 17:10 |
| * faceface just needs something quick | 17:11 | |
| faceface | i.e. phone a friend ;-) | 17:11 |
| faceface | just wondered if you had the tools | 17:11 |
| faceface | I spent maybe 20 mins trying to get Rgraphviz up, and its finally ready and it segfaults | 17:11 |
| kanzure | What does rgraphviz do? | 17:12 |
| faceface | I could have done it by hand that quickly! | 17:12 |
| kanzure | Why not just call graphviz through the shell? | 17:12 |
| bkero | ? | 17:12 |
| faceface | kanzure, its an R library that provides an API to graphviz | 17:12 |
| faceface | oh... | 17:12 |
| faceface | does it take pairs list as input? | 17:13 |
| faceface | Its such a basic graph format | 17:13 |
| faceface | pple don't support it though | 17:13 |
| faceface | It reads attributed graph files and writes drawings. - where is format defined? | 17:14 |
| kanzure | Graphviz can do stuff like a -> b if you want. | 17:14 |
| faceface | kanzure, got an example? | 17:14 |
| kanzure | the format is defined in the grammar files | 17:14 |
| kanzure | uh | 17:14 |
| kanzure | digraph G { \n a -> b [label "hahahah"]; \n b -> c \n } | 17:15 |
| kanzure | uhm, add semicolon after c | 17:15 |
| kanzure | brb | 17:15 |
| faceface | do I have to label all nodes? | 17:15 |
| faceface | OK, I see not | 17:15 |
| faceface | neato my.graph | 17:16 |
| faceface | Error: Layout was not done. Missing layout plugins? | 17:16 |
| faceface | ? | 17:16 |
| faceface | G2g | 17:16 |
| faceface | thanks for help | 17:17 |
| faceface | sorry for quitting | 17:17 |
| UtopiahGHML | kanzure: any free reliable API/webservice that I could call with graphviz data and get .png or .svg file in return? | 17:17 |
| faceface | export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/graphviz :D | 17:19 |
| faceface | Error: Layout was not done. Missing layout plugins? | 17:19 |
| faceface | GAAAA | 17:19 |
| jihaaaad | I think I speak for all hackers when I say: Fucking Turks. | 17:51 |
| bkero | durk durka | 17:56 |
| jihaaaad | Amen. | 17:58 |
| jihaaaad | so | 17:58 |
| jihaaaad | how do i change an electron's spin, guys | 17:59 |
| bkero | Murder John McCain. | 18:00 |
| jihaaaad | hush | 18:01 |
| jihaaaad | theyll hear us | 18:01 |
| jihaaaad | fucktard | 18:01 |
| kanzure | UtopiahGHML: http://bloodgate.com/graph-easy/ gives you PNG. | 18:01 |
| jihaaaad | DUMBASS, I ASKED HOW TO CHANGE THE SPIN OF AN ELECTRON | 18:01 |
| jihaaaad | NOT FOR MORE WEB2.0 SHIT | 18:02 |
| jihaaaad | YOU DONT LISTEN KANZURE | 18:02 |
| jihaaaad | EVER | 18:02 |
| bkero | http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2008/10/support-atheist-bus-campaign-and-see.html | 18:15 |
| UtopiahGHML | jihaaaad: do you have e-tourette syndrom? | 18:45 |
| kanzure | ".. bioflocculant produced by nonalgal microbial cultures have been assessed for | 18:51 |
| kanzure | flocculating microalgal cells (Hee-Mock et al., 2001). The bacterium Paenibacillus sp. AM49 | 18:51 |
| kanzure | is known to produce a bioflocculant that has proved effective for harvesting Chlorella | 18:51 |
| kanzure | vulgaris (Hee-Mock et al., 2001)." | 18:51 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/Harvesting of Chlorella vulgaris using a bioflocculant from Paenibacillus sp. AM49.pdf | 18:53 |
| bkero | What bioflocculant are they using? | 18:55 |
| kanzure | Heh. "Chlorella vulgaris was obtained from the Culture Collection of Algae at the University of Texas at Austin and grown in a modified Chu 13 medium (Yam-aguchi et al. 1987)." <-- Fuck yes. | 18:56 |
| bkero | That your lab? | 18:56 |
| UtopiahGHML | thanks for the link kanzure but Ill probably go for http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/PmGraphViz | 18:56 |
| kanzure | Nope. That's where my lab stole their algae from though. | 18:56 |
| bkero | Ooo | 18:56 |
| kanzure | It means it's down the damn hall. | 18:56 |
| bkero | Are you working with native strains, or something chosen for a certain yield, or engineered? | 18:57 |
| kanzure | It's definitely highly selected. | 18:57 |
| bkero | For yielding what? | 18:57 |
| kanzure | It's living aound a pH of 7. | 18:57 |
| bkero | Methane production? Oil density? | 18:57 |
| kanzure | High lipid production. | 18:57 |
| kanzure | I have a pptx if you want it. | 18:58 |
| kanzure | But pptx sucks. | 18:58 |
| bkero | I don't have anything that will open pptx | 18:58 |
| kanzure | This has been inhibiting me from reading all of the details, so as you can imagine, .. | 18:58 |
| kanzure | Oh wait. I have something | 18:58 |
| bkero | A shotgun to the face? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | Nah, I installed something last time this came up, and it was working, but generated crappy powerpoints. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | Anyway, it looks like they're testing the biomass clumping efficiency based off of how much the mice weigh. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | After feeding the mice with the bioflocculant+algae solutions. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | Interesting. Don't know why they couldn't at least report seeing clumps under the microscope or what. | 19:03 |
| kanzure | ' Paenibacillus favisporus sp. nov., a xylanolytic bacterium isolated from cow faeces ' well then. | 19:07 |
| kanzure | Too bad calcite isn't a good substitute for calcium chloride as a salt. | 19:14 |
| kanzure | Heh. Nevermind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride " It can be produced directly from limestone, " | 19:14 |
| kanzure | http://chaos.ph.utexas.edu/~abeer/ ' We study experimentally the latent time development of growth patterns formed by Paenibacillus type-T bacteria in poor media. We perform quantitative experimental investigations by analyzing growing complex structures. In particular, we go beyond the studies of individual colonies and explore colony-colony interactions (see image below) in order to elucidate long distance signaling and' | 19:20 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Artificial_aging_of_mice.pdf 'Clinical signs of aging verified by morphometrical analysis of brain tissue were observed in young mice 4 months after administration of brain extract from old mice (5 intraperitoneal injections).' <-- Aging is a disease. | 19:30 |
| kanzure | " Producing the specified 26.2 tons of P. tricornutum biomass annually requires an array of 75 tubular photobioreactors each having a volume of 0.8 m^3." | 19:44 |
| kanzure | delicious | 19:44 |
| UtopiahGHML | someone know a good way to render pages and take screenshots? | 20:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | like some URL2PNG API | 20:31 |
| kanzure | What rendering engine do you want to use? | 20:34 |
| UtopiahGHML | Gecko but actually if I could have all the famous one and compare that would be awesome | 20:35 |
| UtopiahGHML | I could automatize my tests | 20:35 |
| kanzure | I've never had the rendering engines do much good for me. | 20:38 |
| -!- splicer_ is now known as Splicer | 20:39 | |
| fenn | mmmm algae tofu | 21:27 |
| fenn | calcium chloride derived from seawater is what's used to condense soymilk for pressing into tofu | 21:27 |
| xp_prg | msg nickserv identify password | 21:41 |
| wrldpc | headed to this: http://apps.dfhcc.harvard.edu/calendar/event_view.php?eid=1614&instance=2008-10-21 | 22:24 |
| wrldpc | love the tofu | 22:24 |
| bkero | <3 tofu | 22:25 |
| Splicer | looks interesting | 22:48 |
| Splicer | I saw Hefner has only 2 gf:s now. I love the way alpha males get away with that. | 22:51 |
| bkero | I'd be fine with 1. | 22:59 |
| Splicer | Maybe Hefner has got one of yours | 23:02 |
| kanzure | bkero: Neochloris Oleoabundance | 23:02 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/2008-10-21%20Algal%20biomass%20extraction%20presentation.ppt | 23:03 |
| kanzure | The review that Mac linked to: electrophoresis.pdf | 23:07 |
| kanzure | erm | 23:07 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/electrophoresis.pdf | 23:08 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Acinetobacter_ADP1.pdf <- Acinetobacter instead of ecoli for diy experimentation | 23:10 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/Acinetobacter_instead_of_ecoli.html | 23:17 |
| Splicer | Someone on the diybio thred about that said the main reason diyers are going to go for e-coli is that that's the most well documented cell. They have a valid point. | 23:18 |
| kanzure | Hrm. I need to come up with some information on filtration techniques. | 23:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: There's a ton o limestone around this area, so I was hoping. | 23:20 |
| kanzure | I used to live a mile away from a limestone mining operation. | 23:20 |
| fenn | they sell cacl2 in 50 pound bags for sidewalk de-icing | 23:44 |
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