| --- Day changed Sun Nov 23 2008 | ||
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7CRZZlnmKo huh, a video on a flexible manufacturing system. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWH8wyBFzpA&feature=related fms simulator. nothing fancy going on here though. | 00:07 |
| fenn | <- not impressed | 00:13 |
| fenn | maybe i'm a whiner but why dont we see more little turtle-robots driving around independently, instead of conveyor belts | 00:15 |
| fenn | they could even be air powered for instant recharging each cycle | 00:16 |
| fenn | for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWsMdN7HMuA (kiva robots) | 00:17 |
| fenn | now they just need to get rid of the human | 00:19 |
| fenn | centralized grid stuff is pretty icky though | 00:20 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWsMdN7HMuA (kiva robots) | 00:46 |
| kanzure | ugh | 00:46 |
| kanzure | stupid copy+paste button thingy mapping | 00:46 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brba0CdOA7k <- are they advertizing child labor? hrm. | 00:59 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/getsmepg.pl?/html/METV.htm&&&SME& Manufacturing engineering television | 01:02 |
| fenn | what's that ripping noise? | 01:22 |
| kanzure | where when? | 01:24 |
| fenn | sme tv | 01:24 |
| kanzure_ | while I'm doing the video dance, I've rediscovered "Anima Mundi", the spinoff to Koyaanisqatsi: | 01:29 |
| kanzure_ | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2391673215252131298&ei=K7EoSYKuL4SargLH-6WJCw&hl=en | 01:29 |
| kanzure_ | "it contains no actors, has no plot and has no script" | 01:29 |
| fenn | sounds like my video game | 01:29 |
| kanzure | Koyaanisqatsi has some sequences of manufacturing environments to complement its themes ("life out of balance") but personally I'd be interested in seeing more of the mechanical side of things. | 01:31 |
| kanzure | maybe it'd just be "How It's Made" with the original audio and any people stripped | 01:31 |
| fenn | yeah much of koyaanisqatsi was supposed to be illustrating the futility of progress | 01:31 |
| kanzure | ah, did you see it? | 01:32 |
| kanzure | Tony had to beat me with a stick for about a year until I finally got around to watching it | 01:32 |
| kanzure | Now it rests on a shelf with some others. | 01:32 |
| fenn | yeah it's pretty cool | 01:33 |
| fenn | i saw it with a live performance of the soundtrack | 01:33 |
| kanzure | an orchestra in a pit underneath the projection screen? | 01:33 |
| fenn | pretty much | 01:34 |
| fenn | philip glass was my first exposure to "techno" music, so my mom thinks i'm super into his music or something | 01:35 |
| kanzure | I've been trying to figure out a way to classify the mood that is given off by these videos plus things like THX 1138 (and whatever of THX that remains in the original Star Wars) | 01:35 |
| kanzure | the intersection of THX and Star Wars I mean. 'industrial' is partly the right classification. | 01:35 |
| fenn | i know what you mean | 01:36 |
| kanzure | techno (sometimes) exploits that same theme. | 01:36 |
| kanzure | well, 'industrial trance' is probably why but that's cheating, it's in their categorical name | 01:36 |
| fenn | i remember the first time i saw a cnc machine.. it was in the "international space station" IMAX movie | 01:37 |
| fenn | i was like HOLY SHIT look that that thing go! | 01:37 |
| kanzure | I don't know why Lucas has lost his touch with his original themes | 01:39 |
| kanzure | (no, not "hope and justice and the good side") | 01:40 |
| kanzure_ | otherEric has gotten back to me on ultrasound brain stimulation | 01:46 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.dreamviews.com/community/showpost.php?p=950639&postcount=29 | 01:46 |
| fenn | origami is not too much different from sheet metal bending | 01:47 |
| kanzure | campbell and another student are big into sheet metal bending actually | 01:48 |
| kanzure | that's a large portion of other research going on in ADL. | 01:48 |
| kanzure | 'large', meh, bad choice of words | 01:48 |
| fenn | that's "the other research" going on | 01:49 |
| kanzure | but he did point out that there are some important differences | 01:49 |
| kanzure | for instance, bending sheet metal twice is not doable | 01:49 |
| kanzure | like bend from one corner to the middle, then bend the adjacent edge to the middle <--- not going to happen | 01:49 |
| kanzure | but with origami on typical paper, sure. | 01:50 |
| fenn | depends on the metal and the thickness | 01:50 |
| kanzure | one of the origami pdfs that I was reading the other day was trying to come up with various 'paper models' or 'material models' | 01:50 |
| fenn | actually, i bet you could do it with some kind of plastic insert to spread the strain (less creasing, more plastic flow) | 01:50 |
| kanzure | for various possible folds and manipulations of the materials | 01:51 |
| fenn | "paper model" = simulation parameters right? | 01:51 |
| kanzure | yes, ambiguity :/ | 01:51 |
| kanzure | model of the 'dynamics' of paper | 01:51 |
| kanzure | material properties. | 01:52 |
| fenn | i think most of the ambiguity in english is that there's no process for creating a new word | 01:52 |
| kanzure | dynamics under applied force, let's go with that | 01:52 |
| fenn | s/that/because/ | 01:52 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu9z9piim2w tie-fighter factory | 01:54 |
| kanzure | hm that was boring | 01:58 |
| kanzure | nevermind | 01:58 |
| kanzure | thought it would actually show the factory part :) | 01:58 |
| kanzure | I just played through it the other week .. | 01:59 |
| fenn | looks like Halo with swords | 02:05 |
| kanzure | in one part of the level you're jumping around on the giant robotic arms and slicing through tie-fighters, force-pushing them into each other, that sort of thing. | 02:08 |
| gene_ | kanzure you there? | 02:36 |
| gene_ | guess you aren't | 02:37 |
| kanzure_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_manufacturing wasn't expecting this to have actual content | 02:37 |
| kanzure_ | yeah, I'm here. | 02:37 |
| kanzure_ | You have to give me more than 30 seconds. | 02:37 |
| gene_ | ok | 02:41 |
| kanzure | gene, if you have an flv viewer app check out http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/videos/ | 02:45 |
| fenn | mix me up a ball of gundanium alloy | 02:48 |
| kanzure | not gundamium? | 02:49 |
| kanzure | oh, the phonetics. | 02:49 |
| fenn | *n and *m are interchangeable in japanese | 02:49 |
| fenn | er, wait nevermind, wrong letter | 02:49 |
| fenn | uh, i guess it sounds cooler that way | 02:49 |
| * kanzure nods | 02:50 | |
| gene_ | how about graphene fenn? | 02:50 |
| gene_ | will that work | 02:50 |
| fenn | i was just referring to creative uses of microgravity alloys | 02:51 |
| fenn | oh wow an explanation: "Gundanium's name is actually an acronym; it stands for Genetic on Universal Neutrally Different Alloy. The suffix -nium was added to distinguish it from similar alloys being made on Earth. In the After Colony Universe, the word "Gundam" is derived from this acronym (GUNDAnium Mobile suit)." | 02:52 |
| fenn | you betcha | 02:52 |
| gene_ | genetic? | 02:52 |
| * kanzure thought you were making it up. | 02:52 | |
| * fenn shrugs | 02:52 | |
| fenn | supposedly they use nanomachines in the process somewhere | 02:52 |
| gene_ | heh | 02:52 |
| kanzure | it's neutrally different! | 02:52 |
| gene_ | it might be carbon nanotube truss composite | 02:53 |
| fenn | it kinda pissed me off how in gundam wing Trowa goes back to his home colony and whips up a new gundam in like a week with no help | 02:53 |
| kanzure | gundam was before CNTs became popular | 02:53 |
| kanzure | fenn: do you have a reference to the video? | 02:53 |
| fenn | gene_: no it's some kind of titanium and/or ceramic | 02:54 |
| gene_ | I know | 02:54 |
| fenn | a reference to the video? | 02:54 |
| kanzure | episode number or something | 02:54 |
| fenn | uh, lemme look | 02:54 |
| gene_ | I am suggesting something else that might work in reality | 02:54 |
| fenn | i have the episodes on cd somewhere | 02:54 |
| kanzure | I'll add it to my "people who pwn me" (Tony Stark's 'power exoskeleton in a week' is in the pot) | 02:54 |
| kanzure | gene_: not really, it's easier to fetch titanium than it is to do the CVD for CNT growth | 02:55 |
| gene_ | I don't have the viewer app | 02:55 |
| kanzure | gene_: try mplayer | 02:55 |
| gene_ | I know but in the future.... | 02:55 |
| kanzure | what future? | 02:55 |
| gene_ | THE FUTURE | 02:56 |
| gene_ | but can you get radically high strength to weight ratio with ceramics or metals? | 02:58 |
| fenn | there are other molecules besides nanotubes you know | 02:59 |
| fenn | some sort of boron nitride fiber would be really strong i bet | 02:59 |
| gene_ | hmmm... or something with flourine | 02:59 |
| gene_ | fluorine is the most electronegative element | 03:00 |
| kanzure | yes, we are aware of this. | 03:00 |
| gene_ | it forms the strongest bonds | 03:00 |
| fenn | STOP THE PRESSES | 03:00 |
| gene_ | why? | 03:00 |
| fenn | FLUORINE DECLARES NEUTRALITY | 03:00 |
| kanzure | and kindly asks to be left alone | 03:00 |
| gene_ | yeah it does only bond to one atom at a time though which rather sucks | 03:01 |
| kanzure | do you know your chemistry? | 03:01 |
| gene_ | yeah | 03:01 |
| kanzure | erm, not chem 101, I mean things like inorganic chem, pushing around functional groups in organic chem, that sort of thing | 03:02 |
| gene_ | no | 03:02 |
| gene_ | do you? | 03:02 |
| kanzure | nope, but I do have bullshit detectors | 03:02 |
| gene_ | crap I think I might have made an error | 03:03 |
| kanzure | Nope, you're right about fluorine | 03:03 |
| gene_ | ok | 03:03 |
| fenn | huh this is interesting "Exposing the tubes to high magnetism causes most of them to line up in the same direction, increasing their collective strength" http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/10/buckypaper-race-to-market.html | 03:03 |
| kanzure | but chemistry is rarely just "find an electron donor and hope it works" | 03:03 |
| gene_ | COOL! | 03:03 |
| gene_ | now apply electron beam | 03:04 |
| gene_ | and weld em together | 03:04 |
| kanzure | there was another alignment mechanism too | 03:04 |
| gene_ | yeah there are a bunch | 03:04 |
| kanzure | CVD is supposed to provide one alignment mechanism of course in their growth | 03:04 |
| kanzure | but that's not what I'm thinking of. | 03:04 |
| gene_ | proteins? | 03:04 |
| fenn | thinking of the yarn spinner? | 03:04 |
| kanzure | I'm not aware of proteins to align CNTs in their growth process. | 03:05 |
| kanzure | yarn spinners? | 03:05 |
| fenn | i was surprised at how simple the CVD recipe for CNT's was | 03:05 |
| kanzure | I have a zip on the server somewhere if you want, re: CNTs. | 03:05 |
| * kanzure looks around | 03:05 | |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/nano/CNTs/ | 03:06 |
| kanzure | huh, one of those methods uses ultrasound | 03:07 |
| gene_ | yup | 03:08 |
| gene_ | they use sonicators too | 03:08 |
| gene_ | speaking of which, you said you might go down to the lab right now? | 03:09 |
| gene_ | or soon? | 03:09 |
| kanzure | Maybe soon. I don't know. | 03:09 |
| gene_ | um... isn't it a little late? | 03:10 |
| gene_ | and I don't think we have any samples | 03:11 |
| kanzure | Late? What time is it? | 03:11 |
| kanzure | If I do end up going, I'd fetch some more algae. | 03:11 |
| gene_ | it's 9:10 | 03:11 |
| gene_ | well tell me if you do | 03:12 |
| gene_ | now would be a great time to sonicate | 03:12 |
| kanzure | Less people to bump into, sounds fine with me. | 03:12 |
| kanzure | DId you replace the tip of the sonicator? | 03:12 |
| gene_ | no | 03:12 |
| kanzure | Did you have to? | 03:12 |
| gene_ | YES | 03:12 |
| gene_ | we have too | 03:12 |
| gene_ | the people who own it | 03:12 |
| gene_ | really mistreated it | 03:13 |
| gene_ | the tip is pitted | 03:13 |
| gene_ | which is very very very bad for a sonicator | 03:13 |
| gene_ | pits mean places for vacuum to form | 03:14 |
| gene_ | and water rushes back into the pits VERY FAST | 03:15 |
| gene_ | and erodes the metal | 03:15 |
| gene_ | even more | 03:15 |
| gene_ | besides we have to use the cell disrupting horn anyway | 03:15 |
| gene_ | oh yeah inkscape is awesome for drawing double spirals | 03:18 |
| fenn | why do you need double spirals? | 03:18 |
| gene_ | because they are awesome | 03:19 |
| kanzure | .. | 03:19 |
| gene_ | and look really cool | 03:20 |
| gene_ | that's why | 03:20 |
| kanzure | because of the filter that he was talking about a few weeks ago | 03:20 |
| fenn | oh | 03:20 |
| kanzure | the spiral one. | 03:20 |
| gene_ | Haven't you ever watched Gurren Lagann Fenn? | 03:20 |
| gene_ | that's why spirals are awesome | 03:21 |
| fenn | jeez i thought you would at least throw in a schauberger quote or something | 03:22 |
| gene_ | Fenn I am afraid that you've figured it all out | 03:22 |
| gene_ | and the reason why we have DARPA funding | 03:23 |
| fenn | i cant figure out if it's a gun bunny show or a gundam ripoff | 03:23 |
| gene_ | you must now get a mind wipe | 03:23 |
| gene_ | anyway who is Schauberger? | 03:25 |
| fenn | spiral/vortex guy | 03:25 |
| gene_ | free energy? | 03:25 |
| fenn | possibly | 03:25 |
| fenn | i've often thought a lot of these "free energy" machines really were doing low energy fusion reactions without realizing it | 03:26 |
| gene_ | yeah right | 03:27 |
| fenn | well, when you're older and know more, please remember | 03:27 |
| gene_ | prove that they produce neutrons then we'll talk | 03:28 |
| gene_ | speaking of neutrons | 03:28 |
| fenn | hard to detect low energy neutrons | 03:28 |
| gene_ | I wonder if you used a pryoelectric neutron source and aimed it at some americium if you could make a nuclear powersource | 03:30 |
| gene_ | that is below critical mass | 03:30 |
| gene_ | so I don't have to get 3.2 kilos of americium | 03:33 |
| gene_ | http://thefutureofthings.com/articles/26/americium-power-source.html | 03:33 |
| fenn | yes | 03:33 |
| fenn | read about 'particle accelerator burnup' | 03:33 |
| fenn | nuclear waste disposal strategy | 03:34 |
| fenn | unfortunately it's not permitted under current anti-proliferation treaties b/c it involve "reprocessing" the waste | 03:35 |
| gene_ | you mean I could use americium from a smoke detector to power my laser? | 03:35 |
| fenn | not really | 03:35 |
| gene_ | why | 03:35 |
| fenn | because you dont have 3.2 kilos of americium | 03:36 |
| gene_ | I know | 03:36 |
| fenn | maybe if you had some really fantabulous x-ray and neutron deflectors | 03:36 |
| fenn | reflectors | 03:36 |
| fenn | blah | 03:36 |
| gene_ | that's where the pyroelectric stuff comes it | 03:36 |
| fenn | gene i think you'd like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzy1RNJBUo4 | 03:38 |
| gene_ | I don't get it | 03:39 |
| gene_ | WTF is a bunny girl fighting darth vader? | 03:41 |
| gene_ | I don't get it | 03:41 |
| gene_ | fenn i think you'd like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAbhJk4YJns | 03:42 |
| fenn | oh man the original is even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xLAVWf-N3c | 03:47 |
| gene_ | lol backpack missiles | 03:58 |
| kanzure | Huh. Saul and Wilhelm did the hand crank for OLPC. | 04:13 |
| gene_ | huh? | 04:14 |
| gene_ | You mean Eric? | 04:14 |
| gene_ | link? | 04:15 |
| * kanzure nods | 04:15 | |
| kanzure | No link. This is just trivia from somebody who learned about me at Convergence08. | 04:15 |
| gene_ | huh | 04:15 |
| gene_ | I wish there was a way to sudo apt get food | 04:17 |
| kanzure | Even if there was, you're not running linux. | 04:20 |
| kanzure | And there's no apt port for windows IIRC. | 04:20 |
| gene_ | I know | 04:20 |
| gene_ | but if there was | 04:20 |
| kanzure | well, that's what we're doing in here.. | 04:20 |
| kanzure | apt-get food would just mean some driver interfaces to various actuators linked up to a food inventory | 04:21 |
| gene_ | could we try to synthesize flavor molecules? | 04:21 |
| gene_ | make strawberry flavor fish? | 04:21 |
| kanzure | Organic chemistry stuff? | 04:21 |
| kanzure | Flavors are like cyclosomethings. hrm. | 04:22 |
| fenn | kanzure: there's two eric wilhelms btw | 04:22 |
| kanzure | fenn: and counting the one that showed up in here? | 04:22 |
| gene_ | hell Kanzure | 04:23 |
| fenn | one is an architectural/cadcam/perlmonkey and the other is some MIT flunky instructables squid guy | 04:23 |
| gene_ | they're a bunch of weird molecules | 04:23 |
| kanzure | fenn: right | 04:23 |
| gene_ | that are secret | 04:23 |
| gene_ | and maybe proprietary | 04:23 |
| fenn | secret sauce | 04:23 |
| kanzure | fenn: btw, I think we're already a sort of squidlabs, except we suck because we don't have physical space. | 04:23 |
| gene_ | indeed fenn | 04:23 |
| kanzure | Molecules aren't proprietary. | 04:23 |
| fenn | heh yeah squidlabs is a "do-tank" | 04:23 |
| gene_ | http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm | 04:24 |
| fenn | also they have access to a vast network of bay-area people with too much money, it seems | 04:24 |
| gene_ | some are according to some people | 04:24 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah, they seem like pricks. | 04:24 |
| * fenn doesnt care about french fry flavoring | 04:25 | |
| fenn | kanzure: ah, but they don't, that's what's amazing | 04:25 |
| gene_ | read on further down the article | 04:25 |
| gene_ | to the part about flavorist | 04:25 |
| gene_ | s | 04:25 |
| gene_ | wonder if you could get arrested for illegally compiling food | 04:25 |
| gene_ | then again there was that court ruling that says it's ok to 3d scan something in and make it | 04:26 |
| fenn | maybe then it would be "cool" enough for you to work on that subject? | 04:26 |
| kanzure | fenn: I think they just stumbled on to the right deals at the right time or something. This kind of happens at MIT I suspect. | 04:26 |
| gene_ | did you read about how squidlabs got founded Kanzure? | 04:27 |
| kanzure | I'm sure there's some silly Kevin Kelly involvement or something with ycombinator | 04:27 |
| gene_ | no | 04:28 |
| gene_ | but kite surfing was involved | 04:28 |
| kanzure | yeah, our CBA MIT contact talks about Saul's kite surfing ventures | 04:28 |
| gene_ | heh | 04:29 |
| gene_ | yeah | 04:29 |
| gene_ | been contemplating making a kite for a kite board | 04:29 |
| kanzure | That's not going to work for your transportation system that you wanted to make. | 04:29 |
| kanzure | Mostly because of the trees and the buildings around campus. | 04:29 |
| gene_ | yeah | 04:29 |
| gene_ | I know | 04:30 |
| gene_ | it's not related to my transportation thing | 04:30 |
| fenn | stupid trees and buildings | 04:30 |
| fenn | they're always getting in the way | 04:30 |
| gene_ | don't even get me started on trees fenn | 04:30 |
| fenn | we just need to build a giant dirigible | 04:31 |
| gene_ | always getting in the path of my solar airship | 04:31 |
| fenn | then we can drop bombs on all of them | 04:31 |
| gene_ | giant balloons aren't very expensive to build | 04:31 |
| gene_ | I built a 6 meter diameter saucer shaped balloon for about $5 | 04:32 |
| gene_ | I think | 04:32 |
| gene_ | you know come to think of it | 04:33 |
| gene_ | they have all these hot air vents coming out of the ground where I live | 04:33 |
| gene_ | Maybe I could capture that hot air | 04:34 |
| gene_ | and put it in a balloon | 04:34 |
| gene_ | a solar balloon | 04:34 |
| gene_ | to supercharge it | 04:34 |
| gene_ | or inflate it | 04:34 |
| kanzure | The six degrees of separation game should be updated to be 'how many degrees to the next Einstein' game. | 04:42 |
| fenn | the next einstein? | 04:43 |
| kanzure | insert some target here | 04:43 |
| fenn | "there could be an einstein lurking next door"? | 04:43 |
| kanzure | or "how far within the social tree do you have to go before you can be reasonably sure that you've .." bleh, it's just the "A Thousand Beautiful Wives" game I guess. | 04:44 |
| kanzure | Nevermind. | 04:44 |
| fenn | its just the erdos/bacon number thing right? | 04:44 |
| kanzure | other random thingy- if you can convince companies that 'being open' is as good as 'being green', maybe you can get some legislation passed that makes them give kudos to employees who mentor on open source projects, but not contribute. | 04:45 |
| kanzure | yeah | 04:45 |
| kanzure | oh wait, legislation is stupid | 04:45 |
| kanzure | nevermind | 04:45 |
| kanzure | I must not be thinking straight, this kid from CA is really making me stupid. | 04:45 |
| fenn | legislation will just be taken advantage of and dilute the term | 04:46 |
| fenn | like "carbon credit trading" | 04:46 |
| fenn | gimme a fucking break | 04:46 |
| kanzure | like I said, I'm being stupified | 04:47 |
| kanzure | You should all probably ignore me for the rest of the night. Just saying. | 04:47 |
| fenn | sparkfun has some neat stuff for cheap: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8668 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8844 | 04:47 |
| kanzure | Somebody mentioned a deal with sparkfun | 04:47 |
| kanzure | Oh :) | 04:47 |
| kanzure | It was Dave and unptnt.com with a sparkfun deal. | 04:47 |
| gene_ | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8668 | 04:54 |
| gene_ | this is cool too | 04:54 |
| fenn | didnt i just link to that? | 04:55 |
| gene_ | shoot you did | 04:56 |
| gene_ | I didn't notice that you posted to links | 04:56 |
| gene_ | so how do you use the camera | 04:56 |
| fenn | i2c | 04:56 |
| fenn | um, what do you mean? | 04:57 |
| gene_ | how do you get video out of it | 04:57 |
| fenn | i suppose for starters i'd dump the camera output to the lcd screen | 04:57 |
| fenn | with an avr in between | 04:57 |
| fenn | or use SMBus or maybe ftdi chips have some i2c mode | 04:58 |
| gene_ | what code goes on the avr? | 04:58 |
| kanzure | Me thinks you'd have to look at the ISA to figure out which pins are in what registers. | 04:58 |
| kanzure | or interrupts, not registers | 04:59 |
| fenn | jpeg decompression and just general glue code for going from i2c to spi | 04:59 |
| fenn | avr might not be fast enough for jpeg though, but i bet the cam has raw mode | 04:59 |
| kanzure | cameras output jpeg streams on something other than usb/firewire? | 04:59 |
| fenn | are you going to make me read the datasheet? :) | 04:59 |
| gene_ | what would you do with it? | 05:00 |
| fenn | attach it to my mobile borg glasses | 05:00 |
| gene_ | oh | 05:00 |
| fenn | i'm pissed that in 2008 consumer video glasses are still only ~640x480 | 05:01 |
| gene_ | the camera is pretty low res too | 05:01 |
| fenn | 1.3MP isnt bad | 05:01 |
| fenn | >3MP is useless in low light anyway | 05:02 |
| gene_ | heh | 05:02 |
| fenn | unless you are NASA or something | 05:02 |
| fenn | the pixels dont have enough area so you get swamped with noise | 05:02 |
| fenn | problem is probably worse with tiny pinhole cameras like that | 05:03 |
| gene_ | yeah | 05:03 |
| gene_ | had plenty of experience with that :) | 05:03 |
| fenn | so, glasses + button + microsd card would be neat | 05:04 |
| fenn | or maybe attach it to one of those micro helicopters | 05:05 |
| gene_ | glasses+camera+loads of computational power | 05:05 |
| gene_ | that would be awesome | 05:05 |
| fenn | it does onboard jpeg compression | 05:05 |
| gene_ | especially if you do optic flow | 05:05 |
| gene_ | and have it avoid walls | 05:05 |
| gene_ | or hands | 05:06 |
| gene_ | make a swarm | 05:06 |
| gene_ | MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH | 05:06 |
| kanzure | Hi mmarmer. :) | 05:14 |
| mmarmer | hi | 05:14 |
| kanzure | Maybe you could do a one line intro or something. | 05:14 |
| mmarmer | Hi everybody, my name is max, and I"m from San Francisco. I've been talking with Bryan and am just seeing what you all are up to | 05:17 |
| fenn | ah, so you are the one who wants to legislate away all our rights to enslave others | 05:18 |
| kanzure | Hrm. I don't think so fenn. wrong person? | 05:18 |
| fenn | some other kid from CA? | 05:18 |
| kanzure | No, there was some ambiguity there. The thing about legislation was just my random idea. | 05:19 |
| gene_ | what legislator? | 05:31 |
| gene_ | you can take my clone farm from my cold dead body! | 05:31 |
| gene_ | And I don't plan on dying anytime soon! | 05:32 |
| gene_ | I don't have a clone farm | 05:33 |
| kanzure | Still working on that whole, uh, artificial womb thing. | 05:33 |
| gene_ | you don't need to use artificial ones | 05:36 |
| gene_ | you just uh... hire surrogates | 05:36 |
| kanzure | Good luck doing that when you're half way across the galaxy. | 05:37 |
| gene_ | why? | 05:37 |
| kanzure | presumably you'd want the resultant organism local. | 05:38 |
| gene_ | I'm talking about harvest clones kanzure | 05:40 |
| fenn | what's wrong with cows? | 05:58 |
| fenn | heh you could "bootstrap" your way up from a mouse | 05:59 |
| kanzure | ? | 05:59 |
| fenn | mouse gives birth to rabbit gives birth to wombat gives birth to cow gives birth to human | 05:59 |
| kanzure | Replacing organs with slightly more complicated organs with different union-sets of compatability? | 05:59 |
| fenn | or something like that | 05:59 |
| fenn | sure, if it's in space it's easy to make it a sterile environment, so you can use SCID organisms | 06:00 |
| kanzure | I'd just be concerned about figuring out the xenotransplant compatabilities. | 06:01 |
| kanzure | would just take time, that's all | 06:01 |
| kanzure | pig skin is a well-known human skin substitute, for instance | 06:01 |
| kanzure | *well-known compatible human skin .. | 06:01 |
| fenn | really? with or without immunomodulating drugs? | 06:02 |
| fenn | s/modulate/supressing/ | 06:02 |
| kanzure | Haven't looked into it that well. | 06:02 |
| kanzure | But it's done for burn victims, for instance. | 06:02 |
| fenn | i've heard of using potato skin as a temporary bandage | 06:03 |
| kanzure | is potato skin a sufficient type of skin? | 06:03 |
| fenn | for burn victims | 06:04 |
| fenn | also there was some kind of tissue culture thing | 06:04 |
| fenn | odd that there's no articles about artificial skin on wikipedia | 06:07 |
| gene_ | electrospun pcl | 06:18 |
| gene_ | It's a cellular scaffolding | 06:19 |
| fenn | for skin substitute? | 06:19 |
| gene_ | yeah | 06:19 |
| gene_ | for a bit | 06:19 |
| fenn | makes sense | 06:19 |
| kanzure | pcl, a plastic? | 06:19 |
| fenn | polycaprolactone | 06:19 |
| fenn | starch based plastic | 06:20 |
| kanzure | s/actone/acetone/ ? | 06:20 |
| fenn | oops i'm thinking PLA.. PCL is similar though | 06:20 |
| fenn | lactone = ketone of lactic acid | 06:20 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprolactone | 06:21 |
| gene_ | yup a plastic | 06:21 |
| gene_ | the same plastic that the straws in the cafeteria are made of | 06:21 |
| fenn | PCL is opaque white, and PLA is clear | 06:23 |
| gene_ | wait | 06:23 |
| gene_ | you mean to tell me that they are different? | 06:24 |
| gene_ | I always though they were the same thing | 06:25 |
| fenn | no, but quite similar | 06:25 |
| gene_ | damn you're right fenn | 06:25 |
| gene_ | both are good for tissue engineering | 06:27 |
| kanzure | What, do they use contact sealant? | 06:28 |
| gene_ | super glue? | 06:28 |
| gene_ | cyranoacrylate? | 06:29 |
| gene_ | aka really awesome stuff | 06:29 |
| gene_ | hmm... I wonder if I could melt down this PLA cup | 06:30 |
| gene_ | it's temperature tolerance rated at 110 deg f | 06:30 |
| gene_ | in my microwave | 06:30 |
| gene_ | DAMN | 06:31 |
| gene_ | polymorph is PCL | 06:32 |
| gene_ | not PLA | 06:32 |
| gene_ | hey kanzure why not grow corn | 06:35 |
| gene_ | I mean just the corn cob | 06:35 |
| kanzure | What did I tell you about not completing your sentences? | 06:35 |
| kanzure | :( | 06:35 |
| gene_ | you didn't tell me that | 06:35 |
| kanzure | Yes I did. I'll go fetch it from the logs if I have to. I was saying "just tell me the whole thing instead of using cliffhangers". It's more efficient if you just be verbose. | 06:36 |
| gene_ | ok | 06:36 |
| kanzure | that would be awesome | 06:36 |
| gene_ | biologists have managed to grow just the cotton on cotton plants | 06:37 |
| kanzure | and you want to process this into a plastic? | 06:37 |
| kanzure | Can you give me the paper ref on growing just the cotton? | 06:38 |
| gene_ | yes and eat it | 06:38 |
| gene_ | that too | 06:38 |
| fenn | "just the cotton"? | 06:40 |
| * fenn pictures big puffy balls of white growing on the dirt | 06:40 | |
| gene_ | yeah | 06:40 |
| kanzure | Here in Texas, we breed tumbleweed. | 06:40 |
| gene_ | in a petri dish | 06:40 |
| gene_ | that's what it looks like | 06:40 |
| gene_ | sans dirt | 06:41 |
| kanzure | Many are unaware that tumbleweed is an actual species. | 06:41 |
| kanzure | Tracking across the land, the tumbleweed migrates yearly from Texas to Alaska on its 4,000 mile journey. | 06:41 |
| fenn | wow | 06:41 |
| fenn | alaska must be full of tumbleweeds then | 06:41 |
| gene_ | heh | 06:42 |
| gene_ | maybe we could use tumbleweeds to transport things | 06:42 |
| fenn | like tumbleweed seeds! | 06:43 |
| gene_ | I can't find the paper on growing just the cotton, but I did find this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_Lamb_of_Tartary | 06:43 |
| kanzure | fenn: ooh! yeah, we can have a self-transporting tumbleweed breeding operation! | 06:43 |
| kanzure | the suckers will never know what they're paying for | 06:43 |
| gene_ | genetically modified doom-tumbleweed | 06:44 |
| gene_ | that hunts down people | 06:44 |
| fenn | and manipulates the weather for its propulsion system | 06:45 |
| fenn | giant radar sphere | 06:45 |
| gene_ | bah, why manipulate the weather, when you can do what sailboats do | 06:46 |
| fenn | woah there, getting a little too high tech for me | 06:46 |
| gene_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Beating_an_upwind_course.svg | 06:46 |
| gene_ | not really | 06:46 |
| fenn | i think albatrosses do something like this | 06:47 |
| gene_ | ALBATROSS | 06:48 |
| gene_ | it might be a bit hard though | 06:48 |
| gene_ | you can't really have a keel on a tumble weed | 06:48 |
| gene_ | you'd have to have tiny arms or something that reach out and grab the ground | 06:49 |
| gene_ | in the right places | 06:49 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_soaring | 06:49 |
| kanzure | I still want to try out the origami folding glider thing + mounted IR camera for surface mineral discovery | 06:51 |
| kanzure | (weather balloon launch) | 06:51 |
| gene_ | solar balloon launch | 06:51 |
| gene_ | no need for hydrogen | 06:51 |
| gene_ | able to go like 500 miles in a day | 06:52 |
| gene_ | they are somewhat hard to launch | 06:52 |
| gene_ | and too easy to launch without a payload | 06:52 |
| fenn | what's this solar balloon stuff? | 06:55 |
| gene_ | what I explained above | 06:56 |
| fenn | bah | 06:56 |
| gene_ | why does it have to be an origami glider kanzure | 06:57 |
| kanzure | It doesn't. It just has to fold up a bit and be able to deploy while dropping or just before drop/deployment. | 06:57 |
| kanzure | Just because for large surface areas and good glide ratios you can't just have a small paper plane dropped from the bottom of the ballooning setup. | 06:58 |
| gene_ | you don't need fold up wings | 06:58 |
| gene_ | http://www.solar-balloons.com/photos.html | 06:59 |
| gene_ | http://www.solar-balloons.com/images/submissions/zwsb1.jpg | 06:59 |
| gene_ | what minerals are you looking for? | 07:02 |
| gene_ | And why look for minerals when you can you use micropower impulse radar to scan for people, like lost hikers | 07:03 |
| fenn | huh why not just make a black hot air balloon | 07:03 |
| fenn | still having a hard time believing that it can actually work | 07:04 |
| gene_ | I did fenn :) | 07:04 |
| gene_ | it works great | 07:05 |
| gene_ | so great that number 3 escaped | 07:05 |
| fenn | so like, why can't i just fill a trash bag with air in the sun | 07:05 |
| gene_ | no enough volume | 07:05 |
| gene_ | trash bag is too thick | 07:05 |
| fenn | thin trash bag | 07:05 |
| fenn | cheapo special | 07:05 |
| gene_ | you have to use special trash bags | 07:05 |
| gene_ | yep | 07:05 |
| fenn | hm | 07:06 |
| gene_ | smaller than 20 micron | 07:06 |
| gene_ | 15 micron tends to be the smallest you can get | 07:07 |
| ybit | http://github.com/sr/git-wiki/ | 07:08 |
| gene_ | you want some figures for engineering solar balloons fenn? | 07:08 |
| gene_ | Kanzure I found the thing on vat grown cotton | 07:10 |
| gene_ | http://www.botany.utexas.edu/facstaff/facpages/mbrown/ovule.htm | 07:10 |
| fenn | gene_: what's the payload of a 4-bag tetroon? | 07:11 |
| gene_ | I don't know | 07:12 |
| gene_ | never built one | 07:12 |
| gene_ | I built something like a 20 bag tetroon | 07:12 |
| gene_ | the amount of lift you get is about 60g/m3 | 07:12 |
| gene_ | if that's what you want to know | 07:12 |
| fenn | ok | 07:12 |
| fenn | hydrogen is cheap :P | 07:13 |
| fenn | 1kg/m^3 | 07:13 |
| gene_ | damn | 07:13 |
| gene_ | guess so | 07:13 |
| gene_ | I might be wrong fenn | 07:13 |
| gene_ | that just a figure I remember off the top of my head | 07:14 |
| fenn | i'm just amazed that it works at all | 07:14 |
| fenn | wouldnt it work better to use clear bags and have a black sheet suspended in the middle? | 07:15 |
| gene_ | it works when you scale it up to really large | 07:15 |
| gene_ | yeah | 07:15 |
| fenn | or you could do clear on one side reflective on the other, with a black target plate | 07:16 |
| fenn | and keep the balloon aligned to the sun somehow | 07:16 |
| gene_ | but it's harder to do | 07:16 |
| gene_ | then your plastic melts | 07:16 |
| fenn | well, doesnt' have to be plastic | 07:16 |
| gene_ | you know if you take black plastic abs sheet out into the sun it melts | 07:17 |
| gene_ | then what do you propose using? | 07:17 |
| fenn | anodized titanium i guess | 07:17 |
| gene_ | that might be heavy | 07:18 |
| gene_ | how many grams per meter per micron? | 07:18 |
| fenn | dunno, titanium is pretty lightweight as far as metals go | 07:18 |
| fenn | might be a challenge finding titanium film thin enough, but you could etch it or something to reduce the thickness | 07:19 |
| fenn | also you could make ripstop webbing if you etched it | 07:19 |
| fenn | like on parachutes | 07:19 |
| gene_ | or make titanium foil via vacuum coating | 07:20 |
| fenn | beryllium is the best to use, if i remember my solar sail papers | 07:20 |
| fenn | s/solar/laser/ | 07:20 |
| gene_ | but the best material to make a solar balloon out of, might be graphene | 07:20 |
| fenn | heh | 07:20 |
| gene_ | a single atom thick layer of graphene | 07:20 |
| fenn | at that point, might as well make a vacuum balloon | 07:20 |
| gene_ | coated with something to make it black | 07:21 |
| gene_ | well | 07:21 |
| gene_ | what material is the frame made out of? | 07:21 |
| fenn | btw gene_ have you read about the floating geodesic sphere cities? | 07:21 |
| gene_ | diamond? | 07:21 |
| gene_ | yes | 07:21 |
| gene_ | on venus | 07:21 |
| fenn | nanotube fantasticium | 07:21 |
| fenn | well it would work on earth too | 07:22 |
| gene_ | oh | 07:22 |
| gene_ | bucky domes made of bucky tubes, that's almost a fractal | 07:23 |
| gene_ | it looks like it would work on earth without fantasticium | 07:25 |
| gene_ | it would be very expensive though | 07:26 |
| fenn | i cant seem to find my way around orion's arm anymore | 07:26 |
| gene_ | back to the original topic of origami | 07:27 |
| gene_ | you know DARPA has at points, looked into micro air vehicles made of folded etched silicon with integrated sensors | 07:28 |
| gene_ | so you can make billions of them | 07:28 |
| fenn | ah found what i was looking for: http://www.orionsarm.com/civ/Fullairs.html | 07:28 |
| gene_ | already read about it on an alternative website | 07:29 |
| gene_ | man | 07:31 |
| gene_ | I want an autofab | 07:31 |
| gene_ | oh krek! | 07:34 |
| fenn | titanium horseshoes are popular among amish people! | 07:36 |
| gene_ | really? | 07:37 |
| fenn | according to my favorite internet encyclopedia | 07:37 |
| gene_ | of course | 07:39 |
| fenn | heh this guy mounted webcams to his trained eagle | 07:40 |
| gene_ | oh krek it's 1:40 | 07:41 |
| fenn | so? | 07:41 |
| gene_ | it's time to get the recommend 4 hrs of dreams per week I need | 07:47 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-11-23_marioarena.png <-- Good stuff. Wine is finally running Mario Arena. | 16:56 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.allegro.cc/depot/MarioArena | 16:57 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.allegro.cc/files/depot/1140/marioarena085.zip | 16:57 |
| kanzure_ | gah, got an 88 combo. | 17:58 |
| kanzure_ | Used to be better. :( | 17:59 |
| kanzure_ | Hi mmarmer. | 18:01 |
| kanzure_ | http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/11/23/1851200.shtml "Machine condenses drinking water out of thin air - in other news, man releases pimped up dehumidifier!" | 20:00 |
| kanzure_ | "How long will we have to wait before Linux has support for the binary language of moisture vaporators?" | 20:00 |
| kanzure_ | hehe | 20:01 |
| kanzure | God these guys are idiots. "Have you considered using a neural network to store manufacturing knowledge?" NO. | 21:31 |
| kanzure | kfjkasdljkafsdlafjskd | 21:31 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://uclassify.com/ApiDocumentation.aspx | 21:35 |
| UtopiahGHML | (free classification API based on text analysis) | 21:36 |
| kanzure | typealyzer knows my MBTI. :-/ | 21:38 |
| kanzure | hah | 21:38 |
| kanzure | It even plots over a picture of a brain "which parts Bryan is likely using" | 21:38 |
| kanzure | Doesn't look very accurate. | 21:38 |
| kanzure | In fact, I doubt they know anything about neuroscience. This is stupid. | 21:38 |
| UtopiahGHML | (regarding the slashdot news, on another scale, there is also large wind turbines to collect water) | 21:39 |
| kanzure | Hm. I really need a new relayhost. | 21:54 |
| kanzure | I've been sending CFPs to wikicfp@gmail.com, but apparently they are all jerks and don't post the stuff they get by email. | 21:55 |
| kanzure | How do they expect their users to post if they don't post? | 21:55 |
| kanzure | In fact, there should be a CFP file format. | 21:55 |
| kanzure | which would ideally contain the TeX files for layouting | 21:56 |
| kanzure | as well as deadline information | 21:56 |
| kanzure_ | Hm. Just got another guy doing a rocket design on sugpro mailing list. | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p281/gregkdc/minirocket001.jpg | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p281/gregkdc/minirocket005.jpg | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p281/gregkdc/minirocket002.jpg | 22:18 |
| kanzure_ | http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p281/gregkdc/minirocket003.jpg | 22:19 |
| kanzure_ | Maybe I'll just start offering "free digitization services -- just do a braindump and image dump and I'll try to come up with digitized designs because you hate documentation apparently." | 22:20 |
| kanzure_ | benefits them too for future re-use. | 22:20 |
| kanzure_ | Reading Freitas more closely, he mentions 'Sallowsgrams' with a ref to Hofstadter | 23:08 |
| kanzure_ | http://stason.org/TULARC/education-books/hofstadter-geb/6-Hofstadter-Pangrams-Sallowsgrams.html | 23:08 |
| kanzure_ | I have trouble believing that the best that Freitas was able to find for a reference on breaking down manufacturing systems into cycles and links (etc.) was Suh [1160] with a "functionality matrix" -- http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/Figures/3.61.JPG <-- this is stupid. | 23:11 |
| kanzure_ | it's something that Campbell deals with sort of. | 23:11 |
| kanzure_ | not really, but he works with tables like that on occassion | 23:11 |
| kanzure | Whenever I go back to read the pointrel docs I can't help but think of http://twistet.com/ | 23:37 |
| fenn | but how else do you deal with the fact that any tool will eventually be used as a hamer? | 23:54 |
| fenn | (re: functionality matrix, which i dont get at all) | 23:55 |
| kanzure | what do you mean "how else"? the functionality matrix doesn't deal with that case (of using anything as a hammer) in the first place.. | 23:55 |
| kanzure | hrm, Smari is asking for some advice for Iceland. Yikes. | 23:56 |
| kanzure | They have very few material resources and supposedly a collapsed economy. | 23:57 |
| fenn | basalt!!! | 23:57 |
| fenn | and internet scams, of course | 23:57 |
| kanzure | heh, this is a new one | 23:57 |
| kanzure | we'll name it the "reverse Iceland scam" | 23:58 |
| fenn | the other guy i know from iceland is trying to finish his sailboat so he can sail away.. anywhere's fine as long as it's not iceland | 23:58 |
| kanzure | yikes. | 23:58 |
| kanzure | I really have no idea what to suggest to them since the infrastructure for managing these 'rapid response required' stuff isn't available | 23:59 |
| kanzure | to put in place the technical means, I mean | 23:59 |
| kanzure | social means, I don't know how useful that would be to them.. | 23:59 |
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