| --- Day changed Fri Dec 26 2008 | ||
| * kanzure_ sleeps. | 00:26 | |
| gene | Sleep is for slackers | 00:38 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure_ | Sleep is for the weak | 00:46 |
| bkero | kanzure_: That's generally what happens when you get news coverage. | 00:47 |
| bkero | Especially AP and slashdot. | 00:47 |
| kanzure_ | I've got Slashdot coverage before, but not AP. | 00:47 |
| kanzure_ | AP >>>> Slashdot in terms of distribution. | 00:47 |
| kanzure_ | I like one of the Slashdot comments: | 00:48 |
| kanzure_ | "Bah, nothing good will come from garages!" | 00:48 |
| kanzure_ | "I was conceived in a garage, you insensitive clod!" | 00:48 |
| gene | heh it made fark too, got a scary tag | 00:49 |
| bkero | Bah | 00:52 |
| bkero | Fundies scared of a little engineering | 00:52 |
| gene | and idiots | 00:52 |
| bkero | I just hope that the gov't doesn't start cracking down at at-home science. | 00:52 |
| bkero | You already need a physicians license to order some medical equipment. :( | 00:53 |
| kanzure_ | Deadly. | 00:55 |
| bkero | My ass is deadly. Motorcycles are deadly. People are wimps. | 00:55 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/7lom8/amateurs_are_trying_genetic_engineering_at_home/ | 00:57 |
| gene | where I live it's illegal to sell glassware, but that doesn't stop fry's from selling it | 00:59 |
| bkero | glassware? You're kidding. that's just stupid. | 01:02 |
| gene | I live in texas | 01:02 |
| gene | go figure | 01:02 |
| bkero | Why stop from selling glass? | 01:02 |
| gene | oh I forgot to say scientific glassware | 01:02 |
| gene | you know in maryland it's harder to get a flask than it is to get a gun | 01:03 |
| bkero | Yea I just go to the campus surplus store here | 01:03 |
| bkero | Wash them out and stick 'em in an autoclave and they're pretty good. | 01:03 |
| gene | THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A CAMPUS SURPLUS STORE? | 01:03 |
| kanzure_ | the 1989 act, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, | 01:04 |
| kanzure_ | eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Sec. 481.002.53.H. | 01:04 |
| kanzure_ | that's where the texas-flask bullshit comes from. | 01:04 |
| gene | the strange thing is that maryland has a bunch of biotech companies | 01:04 |
| bkero | Here there is :) | 01:05 |
| bkero | Glassware for $0.50 each | 01:05 |
| gene | psst fry's still sells beakers, heck I even seen them carry glass tubes | 01:05 |
| bkero | Beakers, graduated cylinders, all sorts of things. | 01:05 |
| willPow3r | fry's electronics? | 01:05 |
| gene | yes fry's electronics | 01:06 |
| gene | don't tell the coppers | 01:06 |
| willPow3r | maybe i *am* the coppers | 01:10 |
| gene | no you aren't the coppers, the coppers were a 1980s heavy metal band | 01:11 |
| willPow3r | where are they now? | 01:12 |
| gene | who knows | 01:13 |
| * kanzure_ likes 80s heavy metal / hair metal. | 01:13 | |
| * bkero has the hair, and the band. | 01:16 | |
| bkero | As noted by his picture on http://www.osuosl.org/info/people | 01:16 |
| gene | I for one like heavy metal binding proteins | 01:16 |
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| xp_prg2 | my flash is coming along quite nicely :> | 02:00 |
| * bkero flashes xp_prg2 | 02:07 | |
| xp_prg2 | wahoo :> | 02:07 |
| * bkero flashes xp_prg2 to xp_prg3 | 02:08 | |
| bkero | CRITICAL: Checksum error. | 02:08 |
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| UtopiahGHML | how well do classical compression algorithms handle DNA? achieving significant compression or not really? | 03:47 |
| willPow3r | http://shop1.frys.com/product/2648172?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG | 04:10 |
| willPow3r | im not sure i trust this "wild goose" brand | 04:10 |
| willPow3r | i wonder if making meth would be a good science fair project | 04:12 |
| willPow3r | carson-dellosa, the company that makes wild goose chemistry equipment, is also a christian education company | 04:13 |
| wrldpc | bizarre | 04:25 |
| willPow3r | they must be banking on muslim fundamentalists | 04:37 |
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| kanzure_ | http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1073317&cid=26233119 what's a reflow oven? | 11:32 |
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| jihaaad | drazak: | 12:21 |
| jihaaad | paging drazak | 12:21 |
| jihaaad | DRAZAK | 12:22 |
| jihaaad | DRAZAK | 12:22 |
| jihaaad | I HEARD YOU WERE BUILDING A CHEAP PCR MACHINE | 12:23 |
| jihaaad | I WANTED TO HELP LOL | 12:23 |
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| jihaaad | cuz i know 'bout heaters n shut | 12:27 |
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| drazak | jihaaad: uh, I'm using peltier devices and fans | 12:52 |
| jihaaad | what is yo black ass using to measure temp | 12:52 |
| drazak | some thermistors | 12:52 |
| drazak | 4 of them, in 4 different tubes each with the solution, to use as temperature controlls but not final electrolysis | 12:53 |
| jihaaad | Why not something like a thermocouple? | 12:53 |
| jihaaad | Can you show me what you have so far? | 12:53 |
| jihaaad | Or is it just an idea in your head? | 12:53 |
| drazak | nowhere | 12:53 |
| drazak | I haven't had time to build it yet | 12:53 |
| jihaaad | You have plans? | 12:54 |
| drazak | I haven't had time to draw them up | 12:54 |
| drazak | but it seems pretty simple | 12:54 |
| jihaaad | Don't you think we could have a few more tubes? | 12:55 |
| drazak | there'll be more than 4 | 12:55 |
| jihaaad | Also, is aluminum our ideal material, since it heats and cools so quickly? | 12:55 |
| drazak | just 4 of them are for temp control | 12:55 |
| jihaaad | (For the block) | 12:55 |
| drazak | uhm | 12:55 |
| drazak | no | 12:56 |
| drazak | you want something with a little more temp control than aluminium | 12:56 |
| jihaaad | hey if you don't want input/help then you can quit being a faggot | 12:56 |
| jihaaad | and say so | 12:56 |
| drazak | I'm not being a faggot | 12:56 |
| jihaaad | You're always being a faggot. | 12:56 |
| -!- jihaaad changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: fags | 12:56 | |
| jihaaad | Fag. | 12:56 |
| jihaaad | Anyway | 12:57 |
| jihaaad | What do you suggest, if not aluminum? | 12:57 |
| drazak | water, use the peltier device to get water hot, and then have a rack for 50um cuvettes, and a peltier device right on top to prevent condensation, and then jut hook it up to a microcontroller | 12:58 |
| jihaaad | So you're proposing a rack sitting above a little reservoir? | 12:58 |
| jihaaad | Or therein? | 12:59 |
| drazak | yeah | 12:59 |
| jihaaad | draw me a pictar | 12:59 |
| drazak | no, I'm busy | 12:59 |
| jihaaad | use mspain | 12:59 |
| drazak | lol, mspaint | 12:59 |
| drazak | I'm on linux | 12:59 |
| jihaaad | YOU ARE NOT TOO BUSY FOR SCIENCE | 12:59 |
| jihaaad | FUCKING FAGS | 12:59 |
| drazak | yes, I am | 12:59 |
| drazak | sorry! | 12:59 |
| jihaaad | what are you doing that is more important than science | 12:59 |
| drazak | stuff that I get paid for | 13:00 |
| drazak | ! | 13:00 |
| jihaaad | Science comes first. Sex follows closely thereafter. | 13:00 |
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| kanzure_ | jihaaad: Wrong. You're supposed to combine the two, you see. | 13:29 |
| drazak | :P | 13:33 |
| drazak | yep | 13:34 |
| drazak | my ex and I used to joke about having sex with molecular interactions on the ceiling | 13:34 |
| kanzure_ | wait, what? | 13:35 |
| kanzure_ | you mean, written out on the ceiling? | 13:35 |
| kanzure_ | Hrm. I have a challenge to set forth- can anybody find some ridiculously complicated step-by-step instructions? I'm wondering how to classify what's unapproachable to step-recipes. | 13:44 |
| kanzure_ | For instance, control structures are a bit different in step-by-step recipes. Timers and so on have to be represented as "set the timer" and such, and then "link up the timer to such-and-such activity" or something. | 13:44 |
| kanzure_ | so in that case, time-based instructions can be encoded in individual linear steps | 13:45 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.twine.com/item/11yngqm3s-34z/space-com-simulation-shows-bacteria-could-live-on-mars Mars Environment Simulation Chamber (MESC) | 13:48 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.opensourcesensing.org/ wtf | 13:59 |
| kanzure_ | Joseph Jackson just linked to that on om | 13:59 |
| jihaaad | my ex draws molecules on me | 13:59 |
| jihaaad | but not very often | 13:59 |
| jihaaad | it's usually math | 13:59 |
| jihaaad | usually trig for whatever reason | 13:59 |
| jihaaad | bitch is insane | 13:59 |
| kanzure_ | jihaaad: What's the most complicated set of instructions you've had to ever execute? | 14:05 |
| jihaaad | in what? | 14:06 |
| kanzure_ | anything but programming | 14:06 |
| jihaaad | C? ASM? Cooking? | 14:06 |
| jihaaad | oh | 14:06 |
| kanzure_ | anything that could be expressed as a recipe, though | 14:06 |
| jihaaad | That's an incredibly abstract question | 14:06 |
| kanzure_ | Yes :( | 14:06 |
| jihaaad | "Go to college, make good grades"? | 14:06 |
| kanzure_ | Heh. | 14:06 |
| jihaaad | why? | 14:06 |
| kanzure_ | I'm still working on recipe representation | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | if a linear model of recipes is ok, then I'll go do that | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | I can tell you, the most complex things I've done in C are various rainbow-table related things | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | but PSL provides for some more abstract concepts | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | and | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | in ASM | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | Just shellcode. | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | And in cooking | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | eggs | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | those fucking things | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | are impossible | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | you should buy a PSL | 14:07 |
| jihaaad | remarkable guns | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.protocol-online.org/ <-- most of these are "step one, step two" things, where each step is pretty easy | 14:07 |
| kanzure_ | but thereeee's a few that I'm either forgetting or vageuly remember that are ridiculously complicated | 14:08 |
| kanzure_ | and can't be reduced to "step one, step two" sort of things. | 14:08 |
| jihaaad | why are you doing this | 14:08 |
| kanzure_ | "Harvest log phase growing cells (trypsinization is OK), wash twice in PBS, pellet by centrifugation (2000 rpm, 5 min in table top centrifuge, or 3 min in microfuge), resuspend carefully and completely in Lysis Buffer (see solutions), incubate at RT 5 min with frequent vortexing, and freeze in ETOH/dry ice bath. Repeat freeze/thaw cycle twice (3 times total) and store at -70°C until ready to quantitate proteins. Try to suspend 105 cells/l5 ml LB. The number of cells need not be exact, but you need a minimum of 5x105 cells in 75 ml to have accurate results, and if you have too many cells in a small volume, they will not resuspend or lyse well." | 14:09 |
| kanzure_ | to systematize it. | 14:09 |
| jihaaad | more complex action requires a longer recipe | 14:09 |
| jihaaad | In order to tell them how to do something like that | 14:09 |
| kanzure_ | I'm also thinking of stuff like "How to assemble your new chair" | 14:09 |
| jihaaad | I'd take at least 3 pages | 14:10 |
| kanzure_ | assembling a chair has easy instructions though | 14:10 |
| jihaaad | Why, though? | 14:10 |
| kanzure_ | I guess I should be asking about "nonlinear instructions/recipes". but usually those can be broken down into linear recipes, right? All parallel programs can be simulated on a linear processor, is that correct? | 14:10 |
| kanzure_ | something like that. | 14:10 |
| kanzure_ | why => because it has to be done? :) | 14:11 |
| jihaaad | Why must it be done? | 14:12 |
| jihaaad | Honestly, it seems like pointless semantic BS to me | 14:12 |
| kanzure_ | semantic is about "meaning". I don't care about meaning. | 14:12 |
| jihaaad | Apparently so | 14:12 |
| kanzure_ | I'm trying to figure out a computational representation of recipes so that we can generate instructions that are both machine readable and human readable. Now, I don't care what they actually mean, but as long as there's a computational representation of the steps, that's the important part. | 14:13 |
| jihaaad | but | 14:13 |
| jihaaad | current machine-readable instructions ARE human-readable | 14:14 |
| jihaaad | iff human is not a complete retard | 14:14 |
| kanzure_ | right, so you can convert stuff like "FOLD on line A to point B" to something more verbose and bullshitty that a human would pur about (whatever) | 14:15 |
| jihaaad | or you can represent it in c | 14:15 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.wgbh.org/cainan/article?item_id=1991546 <-- a supposedly hard recipe, | 14:15 |
| jihaaad | stop reinventing the wheel | 14:15 |
| kanzure_ | but ass I read it, it's just a linear sequence of steps | 14:15 |
| jihaaad | it ain't gonna get no rounder | 14:15 |
| kanzure_ | I agree that it should directly use an instruction set architecture that everyone is familiar with | 14:16 |
| kanzure_ | preferably RISC | 14:16 |
| jihaaad | no please god no | 14:16 |
| kanzure_ | better than CISC. | 14:16 |
| jihaaad | i bet you want it to be big-endian too | 14:16 |
| jihaaad | fucking freak | 14:16 |
| jihaaad | x86 4 lyfe | 14:17 |
| jihaaad | represent | 14:17 |
| jihaaad | Comp sci folks need to quit making pointless abstractions | 14:18 |
| jihaaad | They do not serve to clarify, only to distort and confuse | 14:18 |
| jihaaad | People do not and will not ever think like computers. | 14:18 |
| jihaaad | Computers do not and will not think like people. | 14:18 |
| kanzure_ | It's pretty obvious to me that recipes are a list of instructions. | 14:19 |
| kanzure_ | Sorry. | 14:19 |
| jihaaad | We add complexity without adding features | 14:19 |
| jihaaad | well, yeah | 14:19 |
| jihaaad | but | 14:19 |
| jihaaad | What's the point of translating recipes into an invented machine code? | 14:20 |
| jihaaad | One which no existing machine can currently read? | 14:20 |
| jihaaad | You have a perfectly good C compiler | 14:20 |
| jihaaad | and yet you want to draft up some zany RISC processor which nobody will know how to use | 14:20 |
| kanzure_ | Actually, machines do read these instructions, like: gcode, whatever format various printers accept (some old stuff accepted straight-up ASCII), etc. | 14:20 |
| jihaaad | Okay | 14:21 |
| jihaaad | Explain to me | 14:21 |
| jihaaad | in two sentences | 14:21 |
| jihaaad | what you are trying to do | 14:21 |
| jihaaad | and then, explain, in one sentence, why | 14:21 |
| kanzure_ | overall, or what I'm asking of you? heh' | 14:22 |
| jihaaad | Overal. | 14:22 |
| jihaaad | *Overall | 14:22 |
| kanzure_ | I'm coming up with a recipe representation format that rivels PSL ( http://www.mel.nist.gov/psl/ ) for the representation of processes, recipes, instructions, in a specific data format. | 14:23 |
| kanzure_ | The recipes can't just be "Natural Language" crap, because that's just asking for another Wikipedia. | 14:23 |
| kanzure_ | ooh: Clinical Laboratory Procedure Markup Language, CLP-ML | 14:24 |
| jihaaad | So, you're creating a language to represent algorithms. | 14:24 |
| jihaaad | ... | 14:24 |
| jihaaad | real inventive | 14:24 |
| jihaaad | fucking why | 14:24 |
| jihaaad | C | 14:24 |
| jihaaad | they had it right in the 70's | 14:25 |
| kanzure_ | it just needs to be a data format, not executable code. | 14:25 |
| jihaaad | C works anyway | 14:25 |
| jihaaad | why not xml | 14:25 |
| kanzure_ | the code is simple: go to each referenced package and call the English serialization function given the parameters (like where to fold or whatever) to make more complete instructions for that specific action | 14:25 |
| kanzure_ | well, what schema in xml? etc. | 14:25 |
| kanzure_ | psl provides one, but nobody knows how to use psl really | 14:26 |
| kanzure_ | and the psl guys are dead | 14:26 |
| jihaaad | learn to use PSL | 14:26 |
| jihaaad | This is even worse than reinventing the wheel | 14:26 |
| kanzure_ | so that's why I'm thinking of just using functionCAD, which is really just this graph-based approach of "A -> B" | 14:26 |
| jihaaad | They reinvented the wheel so you're reinventing their wheel | 14:26 |
| jihaaad | More abstraction != good | 14:26 |
| jihaaad | Okay, let's say we have a manufacturing thing, right? A robot. | 14:27 |
| jihaaad | In theory, we could feed it your language and it would build a firearm | 14:27 |
| jihaaad | or something | 14:27 |
| jihaaad | yes? | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | we'd feed it parameters or whatever, yeah | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | like gcode :) | 14:27 |
| jihaaad | so | 14:27 |
| jihaaad | Your hypothetical language would be more abstract | 14:27 |
| kanzure_ | what I'm trying to find is the "thingy" that says "ok, give the robot here this gcode file. now stir for 20 minutes" | 14:27 |
| jihaaad | the problem is | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | imagine a human doing that | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | and a robot doing it | 14:28 |
| kanzure_ | doing gcode? Yeah, it's a bad example | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | Which is going to be more precise? | 14:28 |
| kanzure_ | a better example would be something like printing out vs. hand-copying a book | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | The human might stir for 20ish minutes | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | exactly | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | so | 14:28 |
| kanzure_ | or the origami folding machine versus a professional origami folder | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | human language sucks for manufacturing/science in general | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | this is why we have math | 14:28 |
| kanzure_ | and yet people use it. | 14:28 |
| jihaaad | We need to specify exactly, human language leaves a lot of wiggle room for interpretation | 14:29 |
| jihaaad | "Well, he said stir, but fuck that, I'm going to vortex" | 14:29 |
| jihaaad | you keep reinventing wheels, and as a result, you'll never build the car | 14:30 |
| jihaaad | and if you do | 14:30 |
| jihaaad | nobody will know how to drive it | 14:30 |
| jihaaad | or power it | 14:30 |
| jihaaad | or which way to sit therein | 14:31 |
| kanzure_ | you're not really helping to answer my question | 14:31 |
| jihaaad | Which was? | 14:31 |
| kanzure_ | whether there's something that I'm going to miss with linear recipes/instructions | 14:31 |
| jihaaad | Branches. | 14:31 |
| kanzure_ | hrm | 14:31 |
| jihaaad | You'll have to branch out and execute each branch | 14:31 |
| jihaaad | OOE | 14:31 |
| jihaaad | is what it's called when processors do it | 14:32 |
| jihaaad | out of order execution | 14:32 |
| jihaaad | then you're looking at branch prediction, branch table buffers, etc... | 14:32 |
| kanzure_ | No, I think linear instructions do branching. "If the chicken is black, then go to section 4." | 14:32 |
| jihaaad | Of course, but you'll be writing an insane amount of code | 14:32 |
| jihaaad | just write an interpreter! | 14:33 |
| kanzure_ | Saadawi G, Harrison JH. A lightweight XML editor for clinical | 14:35 |
| kanzure_ | laboratory procedure manuals. Arch Pathol Lab Med 2004;128: | 14:35 |
| kanzure_ | 1104. | 14:35 |
| jihaaad | UNREASONABLY COMPLEX MARKUP LANGUAGES AHOY, CAPTAIN | 14:37 |
| jihaaad | "sir C is too easy to use and makes too much sense" | 14:38 |
| jihaaad | FIRE THE ABSTRACTION TORPEDOES | 14:38 |
| jihaaad | yes sir | 14:38 |
| kanzure_ | yeah, because all chair assembly instruction manuals should just be a giant .c file. | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | "sir it worked nobody has any fucking clue what the hell is going on and the language is actually not useable" | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | BAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | or | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | phrase them in simple G code | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | for a machine | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | for a person | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | Tell him how to do it | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | aloud. or in writing. | 14:39 |
| jihaaad | maybe some pictures. | 14:39 |
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| kanzure_ | if only overloading was more dynamic. "We see that there are 20 different solutions to this function, and 30 to this one, but only 5 combinations that make it so that the two functions match up specifically." | 15:14 |
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| gene | lol FIRING AWAY CAPTAIN! | 16:09 |
| gene | drazak I am perplexed | 16:11 |
| gene | as to how that is possible | 16:12 |
| drazak | gene: what is? | 16:44 |
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| kanzure_ | part of the problem goes back to kernel time sharing algorithms and the like, the traditional monolithic-vs.-microkernel debate. but ultimately userspace should be full of linear stuff, so. | 17:42 |
| kanzure_ | so maybe I'll just write a few wrappers for linked/ordered lists and call it quits. | 17:42 |
| kanzure_ | http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1073673&cid=26235239 Bruce Perens did 4chan? | 18:11 |
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| kanzure_ | lo ybit. | 19:02 |
| gene | drazak the molecular interactions part | 19:04 |
| ybit | oi kanzure_ | 19:05 |
| ybit | gene [nod] | 19:05 |
| gene | Ugh I don't want to restart my computer to install this software | 19:06 |
| ybit | what software? | 19:06 |
| ybit | messing with your kernel? | 19:06 |
| gene | driver software for a clearance USB microscope | 19:06 |
| kanzure_ | you're doing it wrong. | 19:06 |
| kanzure_ | use modprobe. | 19:06 |
| gene | what's modprobe? | 19:07 |
| kanzure_ | adds a driver to kernelspace without rebooting | 19:07 |
| ybit | man modprobe, no? :) | 19:07 |
| gene | well this driver was probably hacked from a webcam | 19:08 |
| kanzure_ | So, Paul was complaining earlier today about safety and diybio, and was saying "ok, so we should just put everything into remote cells for tinkering". I wonder how he lives with his wife? | 19:08 |
| gene | HAHAHAHA | 19:08 |
| kanzure_ | I'm serious though. | 19:08 |
| kanzure_ | an honest issue. | 19:08 |
| gene | Kanzure let me tell you a little something about e.coli | 19:09 |
| gene | laboratory strains of e.coli have gone through so many generations, that they are now adapted to only living in a lab | 19:09 |
| gene | they can | 19:09 |
| gene | 't live in your gut | 19:10 |
| gene | btw this driver isn't even workin | 19:10 |
| gene | it thinks the webcam in my laptop is the microscoe | 19:10 |
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| kanzure_ | I think the point of modprobe was lost on him. | 19:15 |
| ybit | my feeds are getting out of hand | 19:19 |
| kanzure_ | I've stopped reading. | 19:19 |
| ybit | the curse of holidays | 19:19 |
| ybit | come on, you got to read some | 19:19 |
| ybit | wikinews at the least | 19:20 |
| kanzure_ | No, as it turns out, I get the same crap through email. | 19:20 |
| ybit | (to stay in touch with the world) | 19:20 |
| ybit | heh, there is a lot of redundancy | 19:20 |
| kanzure_ | stay in touch with .. what? | 19:20 |
| ybit | possible disasters? there could be a natural disaster occuring in a city you are about to visit | 19:21 |
| ybit | would help to know that | 19:21 |
| ybit | someone could beat you to what you're working on, would be nice to know that | 19:22 |
| ybit | agree, disagree? | 19:26 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not sure any more. News reading hasn't really led to anything spectacularly productive except obsessive compulsive information hoarding, meanwhile the fundamental underlying issues are still at stake (i.e., all of these damn iGEM projects in sloppy submission styles) | 19:27 |
| ybit | i've noticed this | 19:34 |
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| gene | woo the microscope works | 19:42 |
| kanzure_ | Neat, Bruce Perens replies to email. | 20:07 |
| gene | who's bruce perens? | 20:22 |
| gene | and what would you do with a 130x cheapass usb microscope? | 20:22 |
| kanzure_ | Make lots of microbe videos. | 20:26 |
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| kanzure_ | Bruce Perens is the guy who did OSI and at one point was a big head guy behind debian. If you saw "Revolution OS", he was one of the guys talking after ESR, RMS, and Linus. | 20:27 |
| gene | yeah big microbes | 20:27 |
| kanzure_ | erm, I'm sorry, not microbes, planarians and the like | 20:27 |
| gene | Yeah I know what you mean | 20:27 |
| gene | hey you know how I can tell the software this microscope uses is from a webcam? | 20:28 |
| gene | the software has various "effects" | 20:29 |
| gene | not very useful for a microscope if you ask me | 20:30 |
| kanzure_ | "Relational database theory describes the manipulation of hyper-rectangles, but we fake it very badly with indexes we actually have algorithms for. Did you ever wonder why no one has built a massively distributed SQL database despite the obvious value? It is not because it is theoretically impossible, but because it is only possible if someone discovers a general algorithm for indexing hyper-rectangles -- faking it is not distributable. " | 20:31 |
| willPow3r | tl;dr | 20:32 |
| kanzure_ | I thought that Google does distributed SQL sort of though | 20:32 |
| kanzure_ | i.e., caching and the like. | 20:32 |
| kanzure_ | What's the deal? | 20:32 |
| gene | reminds me of my compsci roommate's homework | 20:32 |
| gene | he had to turn a sentence into an nth dimensional vector | 20:33 |
| gene | so you can compare sentences with each other | 20:34 |
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| kanzure_ | gene: what was the comparison operation? | 20:37 |
| kanzure_ | i.e., how do you compare two given words? | 20:37 |
| gene | I forgot you represent each word as a vector and it's incidence is the magnitude of the vector | 20:39 |
| gene | I don't know | 20:39 |
| gene | I'll have to ask my roommate when I can get back | 20:39 |
| kanzure_ | You could do a hack with WordNet, but I'm wondering what the assignment was asking specifically for. | 20:39 |
| gene | I don't remember what it was about my roommate didn't understand it | 20:40 |
| kanzure_ | multidimensional vector stuff is common in web search algorithms, for instance. but anyway. | 20:41 |
| gene | yeah it was something like that | 20:43 |
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| drazak | gene: ? | 21:31 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: what about specific materials in your Measurements class? i.e., "20 g of CAS ID #338024" ? I guess we can come up with a class that encapsulates sourcing of things, which has a member variable for the measurements/units | 21:59 |
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| procto | gene: he was either turning it into a markov chain or a a document-term matrix | 22:27 |
| procto | kanzure_: google does something totally different | 22:28 |
| procto | kanzure_: BigTable is a column based db | 22:28 |
| procto | relational DBs are incredibly powerful... for some thirgs. | 22:28 |
| procto | things* | 22:28 |
| procto | they are NOT good for things like documents | 22:28 |
| procto | which is what google indexes and what most of human-produced content is like | 22:29 |
| procto | which is why I use couchdb for my personal projects | 22:29 |
| procto | a lot of people use RDBs because they have become ubiquitous, and are proctically synonymous with what people understand DBs to be | 22:31 |
| procto | kanzure_: the assignment sounds like it has to do with latent semantic analysis | 22:31 |
| * kanzure_ has some done some wacky cross-table queries with indices pointintg back to indices in weird criss-cross directions | 22:41 | |
| kanzure_ | It's not pretty. | 22:41 |
| kanzure_ | hrm. Somebody from Australia just phoned me to tell me to keep my grades up. I wonder how much that costed him. | 22:41 |
| gene | again? | 22:57 |
| gene | I don't get it, I don't want to know | 22:57 |
| gene | kanzure do you know any good PCB layout tools a | 23:12 |
| drazak | gene: they all suck | 23:13 |
| drazak | :S | 23:13 |
| gene | yeah but which one sucks least | 23:14 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www.brpreiss.com/books/opus7/html/page84.html what's the meaning of the (object) on line 1? Inheritance? | 23:26 |
| kanzure_ | class blah (object): | 23:26 |
| gene | drazak do you prefer freeforming | 23:27 |
| drazak | gene: paper and a mech drawing table | 23:29 |
| * drazak nods | 23:29 | |
| gene | what's a mech drawing table? | 23:30 |
| kanzure_ | probably what you were drawing on in the mech drawing class. | 23:30 |
| drazak | gene: a table with a thing that adjusts to different angles | 23:31 |
| gene | oh | 23:31 |
| gene | you seem very old fashioned, how do I use the save function on paper? | 23:31 |
| drazak | scanner | 23:32 |
| drazak | :P | 23:32 |
| gene | what OS does paper run? | 23:32 |
| kanzure_ | drazak: http://brlcad.org/ | 23:32 |
| gene | alibre.com | 23:32 |
| gene | http:/alibre.com | 23:32 |
| gene | it ain't open source but it's free | 23:33 |
| gene | bah BRL cad's a primitive based constructor isn't it? | 23:33 |
| gene | that's what second life uses | 23:34 |
| kanzure_ | what do you mean 'uses' | 23:34 |
| drazak | eaglecad | 23:34 |
| drazak | I just find them restraining | 23:34 |
| kanzure_ | what, you can't import custom data? | 23:34 |
| gene | is eaglecad free? | 23:34 |
| kanzure_ | import custom data to second life, I mean | 23:34 |
| gene | that's why I hate it | 23:35 |
| gene | oops I meant to say that's why I hate it vehemently | 23:35 |
| gene | WHAT? I HAVE TO PAY TO USE THIS TEXTURE? | 23:36 |
| gene | eagle cad link ? | 23:38 |
| gene | one of my favorite apps for primitive type modelling and mesh based modeling is metasequioa | 23:40 |
| gene | might've spelled it wrong | 23:41 |
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