2008-12-28.log

--- Day changed Sun Dec 28 2008
* bkero shrugs. Looks normal to me.00:07
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kanzure_"how should one off himself?" - Andrew the robot00:23
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kanzure_http://sugarshot.org/downloads/propellant_spec.doc00:46
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* kanzure_ has hit 72,000 messages in his inbox.10:53
kanzure_unread.10:53
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wrldpcLove you mothafuckas.11:05
wrldpcholy shit.11:05
wrldpcbbiab11:06
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* SL4observer forgets how to use the IRC ghostkill command :P11:37
SL4observerok, this is kinda insane:11:38
SL4observerWhy can't I get Help from this program?11:38
SL4observerThe Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which was used in previous versions of Windows and it is not supported in Windows Vista.11:38
SL4observerFor more information, see Windows Help program (WinHlp32.exe) is no longer included with Windows on the Microsoft support website.11:38
kanzure_Hah.11:43
kanzure_http://irchelp.org11:43
kanzure_or /msg nickserv help11:43
SL4observerthanks :)11:44
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PeerInfinitythat worked, thanks :)11:45
PeerInfinityit was the GHOST command11:45
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fennI am 50% here12:12
fennthe other half is still frozen12:12
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-!- gene changed the topic of #hplusroadmap to: lasers12:15
kanzure_"Another thing blogs and open source software have in common is that they're often made by people working at home. That may not seem surprising. But it should be. It's the architectural equivalent of a home-made aircraft shooting down an F-18. Companies spend millions to build office buildings for a single purpose: to be a place to work. And yet people working in their own homes, which aren't even designed to be workplaces, end up being more productive."12:20
kanzure_http://www.paulgraham.com/opensource.html12:21
kanzure_I don't know why I'm reading graham this morning12:21
kanzure_http://rsss.anu.edu.au/~janeth/OSBusMod.html  paper on OSS biotech thingy, lots of references to CAMBIA and ESR ..12:35
fennsay, you know... i dont think the skdb page is hopelessly unrecoverable12:44
fenni have to fix it up for my "portfolio" anyway12:44
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kanzure_fenn, you've missed the diybio mailing list explosion12:48
kanzure_+20 members/day of "omglol where do I start?!? give me teh codes!!!"12:49
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fennmeh12:50
fenndid anyone write a FAQ12:50
geneoh shit I need to join that too12:50
fennlet's see if hugo elias is interested in OM: http://groups.google.com/group/wildcat-cad/browse_thread/thread/2c8e52512889410a12:51
genewho is Hugo Elias?12:52
genehttp://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/models/m_ffire.htm12:53
genethis hugo elias?12:53
fennprobably12:54
fennthe guy behind liquidpcb.org12:54
kanzure_it's odd, but I seem to have trouble writing code because of a knee problem. I can't go 20 minutes without having to jump up and walk around.12:55
kanzure_fenn, Bruce Perens expressed some preliminary interest in om12:56
fennwell, that's good i guess12:56
kanzure_something about a grant coming up in a year that is related.12:56
fennkanzure_: maybe you have "cabin fever"12:56
fennit's rare in texas, but I have heard of a few cases down there12:57
kanzure_this is physical pain12:57
fennsweet, hugo elias has exactly the code I want for SMIRF12:57
fennand he works at shadow robotics, IIRC13:00
fennthe airmuscle walker/hand people13:00
kanzure_class ingredient: some sourced material variable (CAS ID? matweb ID? etc.), plus a measurement object13:10
kanzure_class step: input = ingredient(), output = ingredient(), parameter = pointer to a filename (like my.gcode), or something like that. Also, an optional specific-id to reference a package that solves this, or a list of possible solutions13:10
kanzure_class recipe: steps (list of step objects), ingredients (list of ingredient objects)13:11
kanzure_I'm not convinced that the ingredient class is going to work out.13:11
fennme either13:12
fenn"material" is a lot more general13:13
fennor maybe even "substance"13:13
kanzure_oh, just semantics?13:14
fennyou already  have the assumption that there's a step with an input and an output13:14
kanzure_this is for making the package13:14
kanzure_so, if the package is a hamburger13:14
fennwhich package?13:14
kanzure_um, let me explain I guess13:15
fennyes yes it works fine for recipes13:15
kanzure_the point is to try to find packages in skdb that solve that step13:15
kanzure_so, if you have a step for 'take physical mass and apply heat' that might be a microwave13:15
kanzure_the input is the physical mass (hamburger) and the output is plus some temperature or something13:15
kanzure_is there a situation where there's no input/outputs of a package in skdb?13:16
fennyou can jam any situation into any cognitive model if you try hard enough13:16
fenna machine rusting, or a radiation hazard, what are the inputs and outputs?13:16
kanzure_is that recipe related?13:17
fennmayhaps i'm just being contrary13:17
genekanzure write code on treadmill13:19
genewell the weather is nice outside13:20
fenn<3 paul graham: "I'd like to suggest an alternative word for someone who publishes online. How about "writer?""13:20
kanzure_heathen! burn him!13:21
kanzure_gene: I've done that before, actually13:21
geneif input is hamburger then get meat, get bread, get lettuce13:21
kanzure_what?13:22
kanzure_no, we're not talking about that13:22
kanzure_input to an abstract 'step'13:22
genefind meat centroid, find bread centroid, find lettuce centroid13:22
kanzure_think of it as a pipeline flow diagram of the recipe.13:22
kanzure_the 'get' function could be satisfied by human, or by robotic controller13:23
geneput lettuce and meat on lower bun centroid, put top bun centroid onto system centroid13:23
kanzure_the 'heat it up' step could be satisfied by "here's how to build a fire" or "microwave" (and possibly "here's how to make a microwave")13:23
fenni was wandering through the user interface today before i woke up13:23
kanzure_?13:23
genecooking is a bit different13:24
kanzure_the microwave user interface?13:24
fennthere could be a tree of dependencies, and for each one there's a button for "buy" "make" or "trade"13:24
geneyou have to worry about temperature distribution13:24
geneand stuff like that for some recipes13:24
fennbuy would show an array of online providers with b2b stuffs13:24
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kanzure_yay b2b stuffs13:24
fennmake would spit out instructions or cam files13:24
genecool can I find B2B 405 nm laser diodes?13:25
fennand trade would link to some kind of distributed ebay/mfg.com thing13:25
kanzure_yep13:25
genewhat about chromium doped AR end coated YAG rod?13:25
fennwhat about it13:25
kanzure_I was yep'ing fenn, btw.13:25
kanzure_b2b stuffs depends magically on suppliers cooperating with us.13:26
fenn405nm is like, violet?13:26
geneyes fenn it is violet13:26
geneit is what bluray uses and what HD-DVD used13:26
fennoh, blu-ray diode, that should be easy to find13:26
geneyeah I got one for $3013:27
fennso that's a stupid question to ask13:27
fennbad gene! darwin, exterminate him!13:27
geneok so how do we get suppliers to cooperate?13:27
geneincentives?13:28
fenncustomers ordering from them13:28
kanzure_we could be a bitch about it.13:28
fennif onlinemetals gets $50M in click-through orders, somebody is bound to take notice13:29
kanzure_for instance, some suppliers have online HTML ordering forms, which surfraw can deal with13:29
kanzure_they sometimes also only want email or phone calls13:29
kanzure_so, for email, UBL13:29
kanzure_for the phone, automated phone ordering13:29
genesuppliers tend to hate small orders13:29
kanzure_give them the finger. see how they like that.13:29
geneblog about them13:29
kanzure_huh?13:29
fenngene: rrrf is the way to handle that situation13:29
fenndistributors don't have to be huge13:30
geneRRRF can get a chinese factory to make linear steppers13:30
fennO RLY13:30
geneoops meant can't13:30
fennbut somebody makes them13:30
fennotherwise WE will make them13:30
geneyeah but they can't get a factory to custom make them13:31
fennwell, whatever, why would you want a custom commodity part?13:31
genebecause sometimes that what's you need13:31
fennsometimes your design engineer is a fucktard and needs to be shot13:31
fenntwo situations for custom parts:13:32
fennhigh performance13:32
fennmass production13:32
geneI need a 100ft by 3 ft roll of 15 micrometer black HDPE sheeting13:32
fenni need a 100km rotating multiline Spectra tether, parked in an elliptical orbit13:33
genemany plastics manufacturers that make plastic with a thickness of 15 micrometers make the plastic into garbage bags13:34
kanzure_drazak: You want to go help out this guy? http://groups.google.com/group/diybio-chicago/browse_thread/thread/6d9a0ca8880e30c6/057fc0c689416f41#057fc0c689416f41  re: waterbaths.13:34
kanzure_waterbaths for pcr, I mean.13:34
fenngene: i fail to see how this is a custom part?13:34
fennhuh well i'm supposed to be ripping out a moldy wall13:35
genecompanies won't sell you just the flat unturned into garbage bag plastic13:35
genewhat you do for thermocycling is this:13:36
geneget styrofoam, ep tubes, oven, thermometer, brownie pan, water13:37
genedrill holes in strofoam for ep tubes, fill pan with water, put ep tubes with sample in hole 13:38
kanzure_fenn: while we're talking about ui, I was thinking it'd be nice to wrap/expose the python array/list manipulation methods, specificially geared to recipes. just something on my todo list once I figure out how I'd best like to do the initializers.13:38
geneput ep tube styrofoam assemblage in water put in oven,13:40
genecheck water temperature and adjust accordingly13:40
drazakkanzure_: water baths are slow and manual13:45
geneis this from personal experience drazak?13:51
drazakyes, and they give bad results13:53
geneheh, I've used one in bioclass but never in research13:55
geneso have you used them in apps where results and consistency matter13:56
geneit actually should be pretty cheap to make a peltier based thermal cycler13:56
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drazakyeah14:26
drazakwhich is what I've worked on when I have free time14:26
drazakbut I'm busy with other stuff14:26
kanzure_'open gel box 2.0' reference on diybio list.14:39
kanzure_blah, I want my damn packaging format14:39
geneyou guys know anyway to see if a voltage regulator works?15:11
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kanzure_yay, Vern replied about his 'robobench'15:35
kanzure_it appeared in Nuts & Volts magazine15:35
genelink?15:47
kanzure_I was saked not to, but hold on a sec15:47
kanzure_1980s RadioShack Armatron15:49
kanzure_ref to the Iron Man arms :-)15:49
kanzure_CrustCrawler AX-12+ SmartArm15:50
kanzure_Dynamixel servo motors15:50
kanzure_Alex Dirks15:51
kanzure_blah, Vern got free parts from CrustCrawler, Inc. 15:51
kanzure_oh the dynamixel is the programmable choreography servo motor stuff.15:51
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geneSYNTAX ERROR: please refrase above posts into a coherent sentence15:57
kanzure_Alex Dirks at CrustCrawler was able to get Vern Graner a CrustCrawler AX-12+ SmartArm, which he was working on turning into a robo-helping-hand ("robobench") for his electronics bench.15:58
genea robotic helping hand with super powerful motors?15:59
kanzure_in this case I don't think so15:59
kanzure_it looks pretty flimsy if you ask me, and I'm not seeing a data sheet15:59
kanzure_but anyway, Vern's presently working on a systematic 'tool gallery' that the arm can switch tools out on16:00
kanzure_and then a foot pedal system for switching tools or something16:00
genecool16:00
kanzure_one of the pics shows the obvious use of holding a pcb while you solder.16:00
kanzure_"hand me a scalpel"16:01
geneif it could be made more dextrous it might be able to solder things for you16:01
geneyeah like I am going to trust a robot with a sharp piece of steel16:01
kanzure_there are other solutions for that IIRC16:02
kanzure_(for mass soldering)16:02
geneJK I trust our robot overlords16:02
kanzure_also, how would you tell it where to solder? guestimating the xy coords?16:02
kanzure_I guess you could have a webcam and overlay a coord grid16:02
kanzure_but you also have to account for obstructions and objects16:02
kanzure_have to fit your hands into tiny places and such that don't show up on a birds-eye-view.16:03
geneno you make your PCB on a computer components and all, buy all components from mouser, put em in the respective bins, and have your robot friend do the rest16:04
geneSMD components only of course16:04
kanzure_SMT?16:04
kanzure_but yes, the smart way to do it would be custom-made PCBs where you know what you have.16:04
genewhat you want to solder circuit kits with a robot?16:06
genespeaking of which I might make one of these http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=C689716:09
geneit's a bit expensive though16:10
genehttp://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Mar1963/PE_Mar1963.htm16:11
geneheh16:11
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kanzure_fenn: I think we need a 'workspace object' for defining the constraints on what's being assembled, or instructed, or anything like that.16:36
kanzure_skdb.UnitError: 5 cm^216:54
kanzure_wtf?16:54
kanzure_running units in interactive mode tells me that it's ok to have '5 cm^2'16:55
kanzure_oh, is this your attempt at getting everyone to use standard units, fenn?17:06
fennno, it should work, i'm figuring out why it doesnt right now17:06
kanzure_are you getting the same error?17:09
fennyes17:09
fennit's barfing in the number recognition regex17:09
fenn([+-]?\d*\.?\d*([eE][+-]?\d+)?)?(\D*)$17:10
fennhuh. did I write that? :)17:10
kanzure_gene: SELECT * FROM `batter-stuff` WHERE material='barium-titanate powder'17:11
* kanzure_ ponders gene's SQL interface.17:11
kanzure_*battery-stuff17:11
fennoh it's because the 2 in ^2 is a number17:12
kanzure_fenn, why don't we have a wizard app to help create regexps yet?17:12
fennand it wants (not-number)17:12
fennthere is one, in kate17:12
kanzure_you mean ^H?17:12
fennand probably some standalone app too17:12
fenn^H?17:12
kanzure_erm, ^R17:12
kanzure_for the replace thingy17:12
fennyeah17:12
kanzure_that's just a list of some common things that people search for17:13
kanzure_it's a start..17:13
kanzure_(I use it all the time, although it only takes a few times to remember ^ and $)17:13
fennso.. i was sort of going on the assumption that a unit was a number and then a bunch of strings17:14
fenni might just dump all the sanity checking stuff17:14
fenncomment out this line to bypass the error: if match is None: raise UnitError, string17:16
kanzure_ok, setting up gitweb here.17:20
kanzure_can't remember. setting the $projectroot in gitweb.cgi to /path/to/skdb/master/ isn't quite right. in /path/to/ I did git-clone your skdb.git17:24
kanzure_I missed a step17:24
kanzure_http://www.loria.fr/~molli/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Seegit2   not bad.17:40
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kanzure_fenn: http://70.113.54.112/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi17:58
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gene_I can't get it18:38
kanzure_gene_: ?18:42
gene_your link has rotted18:42
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kanzure_hrm18:50
kanzure_gene_: try now. 18:52
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gene_what is the link to?19:00
kanzure_the skdb git repo19:10
kanzure_anyway, I'm reading through the case files that slashdot linked to19:10
kanzure_when they're asking the prospective jurors about file trading opinions, or if they have ever traded files, it's pretty sad19:10
kanzure_all of them say they've mostly used email19:11
kanzure_but then "nope, never traded files"19:11
kanzure_*BULLSHIT*19:11
gene_there are a lot of incomptent people out there19:24
gene_I'll give you 519:25
gene_I'll give you 5 bucks if you can figure out what is wrong with my laser driver19:26
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kanzure_fenn, would you comment on the repository changes I made, particularly recipe.py?20:42
genehttp://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/steam_armatron/20:54
genewow the armatron is quite the piece of engineering20:54
kanzure_haha the expressions on their faces.21:26
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geneKanzure tell me: how the heck does a potentiometer break?23:11
kanzure_I've busted a few by losing the soldering buds sort of.23:12
kanzure_Does that count?23:12
geneno electrically23:14
geneI got a pot that won't change it's resistance23:14
genemust have got too hot I guess23:14
genehttp://twittypic.com/?p=47523:24
bkerogene: that can happen if you overpower the pot23:54
geneI think I overheated it23:55

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