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| gene | ok the pot's not broken but it looks like the regulator is | 00:34 |
|---|---|---|
| gene | damn | 00:34 |
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| gene | HELP! FOR SOME REASON THERE'S A YAHOO TOOLBAR IN MY FIREFOX HOW DO I KILL IT? | 01:20 |
| bkero | gene: kill it with fire...fox | 01:20 |
| gene | I tried | 01:20 |
| procto | does anyone here enjoy steganography at all? | 01:23 |
| gene | sǝʎ ʎɥʍ | 01:27 |
| bkero | procto: I'm a big fan of plausable deniability if that's any consolation | 01:30 |
| gene | it is a lot of fun to send "fuck you CIA" messages encrypted just over weakly | 01:34 |
| procto | Well, here it is anyways http://www.mockingeye.com/index.php/2008/12/29/unistegpy-hiding-text-in-text-using-unicode/ | 01:40 |
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| fenn | heh 0.005 m^2 of meat | 08:48 |
| fenn | hello there elias` | 08:48 |
| fenn | kanzure_: not sure what this is supposed to mean: outputRequirement = ingredient("", Measurement('7 cm^2')) | 08:50 |
| fenn | there has to be 7 cm^2 of empty space? | 08:51 |
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| kanzure_ | fenn: yes. the idea is that the outputRequirement of the step that matches/satisfies/solves that, will assemble the burger and make all components exist within that 7 cm^2. | 09:57 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: Emlyn was talking with me last night and wants to do full OOP here, i.e. where the "inputs" are an abstract object class (SomePaperTypeHere for, say, a papermachine or origamifoldingmachine). It's more specific than 'units', but I can't help but feel it leads down a bad path. | 11:19 |
| kanzure_ | What if we opt to let this version just be breadth-first only? This means that each package has a BOM and a Bill of Technologies, and there's no computational representation of how all of those materials and technologies fit together. But each individual technology, of course, has its own instructions. The disadvantage is that there's no ability to search for alternatives re: the BOM/BOT lists, and most of the metadata stuff we were hoping for becomes inapplicable. Also, no package-level instructions for combining the instructions of each package on the BOT list. :-/ | 11:24 |
| kanzure_ | for alternatives re: the BOM/BOT lists, and most of the metadata stuff we were hoping for becomes inapplicable. Also, no package-level instructions for combining the instructions of each package on the BOT list. :-/ | 11:25 |
| kanzure_ | unless there's a better way to do the 'ingredient' class so that materials can be referenced throughout the system (it's just a material plus a quantative measurement). Emlyn also suggested having these 'ingredient' objects as skdb packages. | 11:30 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.mel.nist.gov/div826/msid/sima/item2000/b05teets.pdf <- ECIX (electronic component information exchange). | 11:42 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.si2.org/ecix | 11:43 |
| kanzure_ | http://archives.si2.org/si2_publications/pinpak/ | 11:43 |
| kanzure_ | an example: http://archives.si2.org/si2_publications/pinpak/SampleInstances/KM736.xml | 11:43 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.protimingdiagrams.com/tdml.htm '"announced the release of the Timing Diagram Markup Language (TDML) v1.0, an open industry-standard language for the exchange of interactive timing diagrams for digital systems."' | 11:49 |
| kanzure_ | Neat, Temple will be speaking in Austin in April. | 12:38 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=filetype:step+ISO-10303-21&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 <- 12 step files on the internet. heh' | 12:46 |
| kanzure_ | So this isn't too bad for some information - http://www.invert-a-bolt.com/data/F-87747-01.STEP but this does not look serious: (CONVERSION_BASED_UNIT('DEGREE',#10)NAMED_UNIT(#9)PLANE_ANGLE_UNIT()); | 12:48 |
| kanzure_ | oh neat | 12:54 |
| kanzure_ | I found the old Regli/NIST "national design repository" | 12:54 |
| gene | who's temple | 12:54 |
| kanzure_ | http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/repository/ | 12:54 |
| kanzure_ | I thought this was lost/dead/never-to-be-found .. cool. | 12:54 |
| kanzure_ | gene, Temple is famous for her "My mind is a web browser" article | 12:54 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.grandin.com/inc/mind.web.browser.html | 12:54 |
| gene | Temple Grandin? | 12:54 |
| kanzure_ | "My Mind is a Web Browser: How People with Autism Think" | 12:55 |
| gene | oh that Temple | 12:55 |
| gene | Please don't refer to people by their first name only | 12:55 |
| gene | for example: "do you know Ray?" | 12:55 |
| kanzure_ | who else could it have been? | 12:55 |
| kanzure_ | Ray would probably mean Kurzweil in this context. | 12:55 |
| gene | better: "do you know Ray Bradbury" | 12:56 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, there's also Robert Bradbury, who writes about Dyson sphere stuff, but nevermind | 12:57 |
| gene | do you ever give half an ip address? | 12:57 |
| gene | HAHAHAHAHA | 13:00 |
| gene | so guess what I found on my computer? | 13:00 |
| gene | apparently when I installed autocad 2000, I also installed some quite obsolete plotter drivers | 13:01 |
| kanzure_ | gene, do you know of any datasheet standards for non-electronic products? | 13:02 |
| gene | like? | 13:03 |
| kanzure_ | huh? well, like electronics datasheets. | 13:03 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/ | 13:03 |
| gene | what non-electronic products? | 13:03 |
| kanzure_ | anything: nuts and bolts, kitchenware, musical instruments, etc. | 13:04 |
| gene | I don't think there are any standards | 13:05 |
| kanzure_ | example: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Datasheets-pdf-12/168635.pdf | 13:05 |
| gene | I mean I got some datasheets on pumps Sata gave me | 13:06 |
| gene | I can see why there should be some, and why you want them | 13:07 |
| gene | coding for SKDB? | 13:07 |
| kanzure_ | trying to figure out if there's a better way to do "interchangeable parts" in recipes/instructions/designs. | 13:11 |
| kanzure_ | the whole concept of 'interchangeable parts' *sucks* if you're not able to query a database to find relevant parts that meet the specs you need or whatever | 13:11 |
| kanzure_ | somebody failed to finish the industrial revolution | 13:11 |
| * kanzure_ grumbles | 13:11 | |
| kanzure_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchangeable_parts | 13:15 |
| kanzure_ | "In the U.S., Eli Whitney saw the potential benefit of developing "interchangeable parts" for the firearms of the United States military, and thus, around 1798, he built ten guns, all containing the same exact parts and mechanisms, and disassembled them before the United States Congress." | 13:15 |
| kanzure_ | not thematic at all .. no siree. | 13:16 |
| kanzure_ | theatrical, rather. | 13:16 |
| kanzure_ | "The Congress was immensely impressed and ordered a standard for all United States equipment. " <- what standard? | 13:16 |
| samrose | hey y'all | 13:19 |
| kanzure_ | Hi samrose. | 13:19 |
| samrose | working with Open Cascade over next couple of weeks, and will have some files to play around with. | 13:20 |
| kanzure_ | *poke* also check out brlcad. | 13:21 |
| samrose | can you remind me where you currently have skdb available for download? ah, yeah will check out brlcad again | 13:21 |
| samrose | kanzure_ maybe I am fantasizing that you had a repo with code online somewhere? | 13:23 |
| * kanzure_ checks his ip address real quick :-) | 13:24 | |
| kanzure_ | http://70.113.54.112/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi and http://70.113.54.112/git/skdb.git for cloning. | 13:24 |
| kanzure_ | samrose: Don't know if you've been following my rant today, but basically I'm pretty sure that "interchangeable parts" is a giant scam and that technological ability doesn't actually exist ;-) | 13:25 |
| kanzure_ | there's some demo code in the repo for recipes, | 13:25 |
| kanzure_ | in an attempt to represent "interchangeable [solutions] to steps" | 13:25 |
| kanzure_ | but the way that it's being done is not optimal. Check out recipes/recipes.py near the last few lines to see what I mean. | 13:26 |
| samrose | kanzure_ i think you are right in some ways about interchangeable parts, unless you are working with legos or some such thing | 13:26 |
| kanzure_ | :) | 13:28 |
| samrose | there was a guy up here in Michigan, named Alden B Dow, who was extending that "lego" interchanability idea to production of physical object design, back in the 1940's. He was from the Dow Chemical family | 13:32 |
| kanzure_ | earlier today I found that ECIX is an XML DTD standard for electronics datasheets, which seems to do everything from per-pin wattage specs to physical layout. Globalspec and thomasnet seem to have datasheets for some parts in their db, but it's very hit-and-miss and not standardized across their dataset. | 13:34 |
| samrose | when I try to clone warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout. | 13:37 |
| samrose | on http://70.113.54.112/git/skdb.git | 13:37 |
| kanzure_ | heh, I've had this error before, one sec. | 13:38 |
| kanzure_ | uh in the mean time | 13:40 |
| kanzure_ | http://fennetic.net/git/gitweb.cgi | 13:40 |
| kanzure_ | http://fennetic.net/git/skdb.git | 13:40 |
| kanzure_ | but that doesn't contain the recipe update. | 13:40 |
| kanzure_ | samrose: try now? | 13:43 |
| kanzure_ | nope, nevermind | 13:43 |
| samrose | kanzure_ yes, was same error | 13:44 |
| samrose | fennetic worked. I am going to mirror your dev, but use mercurial and hatta wiki, if you don't mind, and eventually moin wiki, once project to mount mercurial repo is done in moin | 13:51 |
| kanzure_ | still fixing error thing. hrm.. | 13:53 |
| kanzure_ | samrose: try this? mkdir skdb; cd skdb; git init; git remote add origin http://70.113.54.112/git/skdb.git ; git pull origin master ; | 13:56 |
| samrose | all works save fatal: Couldn't find remote ref master | 13:58 |
| kanzure_ | odd, it works on my system .. but I was using 'add origin http://localhost ..." | 13:59 |
| kanzure_ | so apparently I don't know how to use git appropriately. | 14:01 |
| samrose | probably just a web serving problem | 14:18 |
| samrose | here is the fennetic repo in hg http://socialsynergyweb.org/hg/repos/hgwebdir.cgi/skdb/ | 14:18 |
| samrose | I will add hatta in a moment... | 14:19 |
| samrose | there, just added | 14:21 |
| samrose | kanzure_ what is the license for your software? | 14:52 |
| kanzure_ | fenn had his code under a gpl license, and I guess that makes my code gpl too | 14:54 |
| kanzure_ | all of these 1903 references to 'interchangeable parts' really only mean "factories that are very precise". | 15:00 |
| kanzure_ | so it was all a scam: http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/The%20Legend%20of%20Eli%20Whitney%20and%20Interchangeable%20Parts.pdf | 15:20 |
| gene | wait a minute Dow's chemical processing plants are like legos? | 15:29 |
| gene | lego I mean | 15:29 |
| kanzure_ | "Honoré Blanc, Mémoire important sur les fabrications des armes de guerre (Paris: Cellot, 1790)." | 15:30 |
| kanzure_ | can anybody fetch that for me? | 15:30 |
| gene | what the first paper on interchangeable parts | 15:31 |
| kanzure_ | no, the 1790 paper I just cited | 15:31 |
| gene | not now I might be spending the next few days in meatspace | 15:31 |
| kanzure_ | btw, chemical processing plants are made up of "unit operations" | 15:31 |
| gene | so like lego? | 15:31 |
| kanzure_ | and these are somewhat like legos, except not terribly standardized | 15:31 |
| kanzure_ | not really. it's meant to be like lego, but it fails. still need to connect machines together with custom methods IIRC | 15:32 |
| gene | well then I want all the "lego parts" | 15:32 |
| gene | yeah and sometimes you have to use very special catalysts | 15:32 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, this one cites the Blanc paper - http://www.compilerpress.atfreeweb.com/Anno%20Aldler%20Making%20Things%20the%20Same%20Representation,%20Tolerance%20and%20the%20End%20of%20the.htm "to produce functionally identical artifacts" | 15:33 |
| kanzure_ | that's not interchangeable parts .. that's just being precise and not sucking.. | 15:33 |
| gene | but if chemplants are legos then that makes your BH toolkit seem a lot more feasible | 15:33 |
| gene | speaking of Eli Whitney, you know he didn't make any profit from the cotton gin, the prototype got stolen and was pirated | 15:35 |
| gene | but he did invent the mill | 15:35 |
| kanzure_ | he also lied about interchangeable parts | 15:39 |
| gene | how so? | 15:41 |
| kanzure_ | he was broke. wanted money. so he told congress what they wanted to hear. | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | see that last pdf link. it's on the first few pages. | 15:43 |
| gene | ok thanks | 15:45 |
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| samrose | gene: i am talking about this http://www.abdow.org/t16-unit-block-systems.aspx | 15:59 |
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| fenn | "Emlyn also suggested having these 'ingredient' objects as skdb packages." yes that was the original idea | 16:30 |
| fenn | since i dont see much technological infrastructure difference between cold rolled steel bars and a cold rolled steel bolt and a stamped auto body | 16:31 |
| fenn | to fix "remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref" you have to do git-update-server-info or something.. this is specific to http only | 16:35 |
| fenn | i think it's rather lame | 16:35 |
| fenn | i dont know why you think interchangeable parts is a scam | 16:36 |
| fenn | "works for me"(tm) | 16:36 |
| fenn | read up on optical comparators | 16:37 |
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| kanzure_ | "I am the chief architect at Name Withheld - an Austin company that designs competitive X86 microprocessors. I am presently attending UT as a PhD student just for fun. You seem to be really intelligent, and I would like a chance to meet you." | 16:54 |
| kanzure_ | yay | 16:54 |
| kanzure_ | oh shit he's a patent agent | 17:00 |
| kanzure_ | I find it strange how quickly the discussions on diybio have turned to patents.. | 17:04 |
| fenn | might be interesting to talk to (if you dont gnaw his head off) | 17:06 |
| gene | Name Withheld, I've worked there | 17:07 |
| gene | tell him that you patent something and make the patent public | 17:07 |
| gene | like Mark Tilden did with his nervous net patent | 17:07 |
| fenn | can anyone explain this to me: | 17:08 |
| fenn | Academic Membership | 17:08 |
| fenn | Non-corporate Personal $250 | 17:08 |
| fenn | Individual Affiliated with | 17:08 |
| fenn | an Accredited Institution $ 0 | 17:08 |
| kanzure_ | huh. | 17:09 |
| fenn | seems like it should be the other way around | 17:09 |
| fenn | back to the cryo chamber for me | 17:12 |
| gene | remember to have your brain frozen first fenn | 17:13 |
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| kanzure_ | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/t/93a354079b5bfdbb <--- Longest email *ever* (or maybe not) | 20:10 |
| kanzure_ | just about openness and diybio, super mega awesome link dump thing | 20:11 |
| wrldpc | That's a treatise! ;D | 21:13 |
| kanzure_ | heh | 21:29 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, where's my adp1 link? | 21:40 |
| kanzure_ | aha. found it. | 21:51 |
| kanzure_ | http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1075583&cid=26260521 "Not only that, this developer somehow managed to get angel investment for a Firefox plug-in?" | 22:53 |
| kanzure_ | bwahaha | 22:53 |
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