| --- Day changed Wed Dec 31 2008 | ||
| kanzure_ | emlyno: heh | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure_ | emlyno: now imagine how it must be for the people on that list that hate philosophy | 00:09 |
| kanzure_ | and are actually just plain ol' engineers | 00:09 |
| emlyno | I responded to that guy | 00:09 |
| emlyno | he actually is talking about namespaces and inheritance | 00:10 |
| emlyno | just doesn't know it | 00:10 |
| emlyno | imo | 00:10 |
| kanzure_ | I'm still not convinced that OOP is better than Paul's natural language | 00:15 |
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| kanzure_ | fenn: so, alec got back to me. "I've been meaning to strike up correspondence with you, actually" | 00:15 |
| kanzure_ | and whenever wrldpc gets back on, tell him that alec has been circulating the archives and to go ask for a copy | 00:15 |
| kanzure_ | emlyno: what I mean to say is that it sounds like the OOP strategy has all of the same categorical-related problems as Paul's | 00:19 |
| emlyno | oh do explain | 00:24 |
| emlyno | you know the whole XML namespace thing is the same concept? | 00:25 |
| kanzure_ | I'm not as familiar with how XML namespaces are supposed to work as I pretend to be | 00:25 |
| emlyno | well same idea | 00:26 |
| emlyno | I'm not either btw, but generally, | 00:26 |
| emlyno | you can define a namespace, and your tags can be | 00:26 |
| emlyno | <namespace::tagname /> | 00:27 |
| emlyno | something like that | 00:27 |
| emlyno | it dissambiguates | 00:27 |
| emlyno | and elsewhere in your document you reference schema(s) which play some role in declaring the namespaces, allowed tags, and schema itself | 00:28 |
| kanzure_ | oh, but supposedly there's some formal process for xml namespaces or something | 00:29 |
| kanzure_ | but just as a disambiguator, ok. | 00:29 |
| emlyno | http://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_namespaces.asp | 00:29 |
| emlyno | No formal process | 00:30 |
| kanzure_ | paul's plan was just Semantic Mediawiki | 00:30 |
| kanzure_ | all mediawiki installations are able to create namespaces too | 00:30 |
| kanzure_ | so it's fundamentally not very different | 00:30 |
| emlyno | you can define your own namespaces, stick them online wherever you like, | 00:30 |
| kanzure_ | I don't see how it functionally improves on the architecture really | 00:30 |
| emlyno | and refer to them by uri | 00:30 |
| * kanzure_ is still waiting to hear about fenn's ideas for treating materials as packages rather than creating all this OOP nonsense | 00:30 | |
| emlyno | me too | 00:31 |
| kanzure_ | in the mean time, I sleep | 00:31 |
| kanzure_ | the other hu-mans return tomorrow, so I guess I should party while I can. | 00:31 |
| emlyno | so anyway, what namespaces do for you is, that if two people choose to use the same namespace independently, they can communicate, you know? | 00:31 |
| emlyno | sleep is good, cu | 00:31 |
| kanzure_ | yes, I know | 00:31 |
| kanzure_ | I've had enough intranamespace collisions for one lifetime already.. | 00:31 |
| emlyno | well you shouldn't be using those dynamically typed languages then :-) | 00:32 |
| emlyno | software that fails to compile when you make a mistake is a gift from the gods | 00:34 |
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| kanzure_ | alec just linked me to http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/tor2web | 00:56 |
| kanzure_ | (Aaron did the RSS spec when he was 14) | 00:56 |
| kanzure_ | which reminds me of http://advogato.org/article/972.html | 00:56 |
| willPow3r_ | mmm... belvedere | 01:09 |
| willPow3r_ | its actually gross as fuck but its polish | 01:12 |
| willPow3r_ | what do you expect? | 01:12 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www-tc.pbs.org/newshour/rss/media/2008/12/30/20081230_biology.mp3 | 11:08 |
| kanzure_ | podcast | 11:08 |
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| * kanzure_ just got an email from Ian Jackson | 11:21 | |
| wrldpc | it was a radio blurb? not video? | 11:21 |
| kanzure_ | not video | 11:35 |
| kanzure_ | well | 11:35 |
| kanzure_ | on the show it had video | 11:35 |
| kanzure_ | " | 11:55 |
| kanzure_ | " To use an analogy, the solid rocket boosters never make it to space - | 11:55 |
| kanzure_ | but the shuttle doesn't achieve liftoff without them." | 11:55 |
| wrldpc | mm | 14:15 |
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| fenn | from the distributed bug tracker article comments: | 14:43 |
| fenn | webgit (not released yet AFAIK), to Git, where users can edit files in Git just by using their browser. | 14:43 |
| fenn | The other is a wiki currently backed by Git and using asciidoc-files (but markup and backend are pluginable), uWiki is announced on freshmeat. The homepage will also be written using uWiki, so that it can easily be tracked using Git. | 14:43 |
| fenn | looks like webgit never took off | 14:44 |
| wrldpc | this was cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZM9XkcS2zQ | 14:56 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: alec claims he's packaging a debian package for a git2web thing | 15:05 |
| fenn | i dont want git2web i want web2git | 15:05 |
| kanzure_ | I might be calling it by the wrong name | 15:05 |
| kanzure_ | wrldpc: really, you should post a link to the videos to the diybio list.. | 15:06 |
| fenn | gitweb already provides the functionality of git2web more or less | 15:06 |
| wrldpc | k | 15:06 |
| kanzure_ | wtf how does my 'biotech toolkit howto' video have 646 views | 15:06 |
| kanzure_ | it sucked | 15:06 |
| * fenn is slogging through emails about "semiotics" | 15:06 | |
| fenn | it has a cool title | 15:06 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: giving me some more info on how to treat materials as skdb packages would be nice | 15:06 |
| kanzure_ | heh | 15:06 |
| fenn | blarg | 15:07 |
| fenn | there's black boxing and there's introspection (duck typing) | 15:07 |
| fenn | i dont believe in globally unique identifier crap | 15:07 |
| kanzure_ | but how is this different from what emlyn has been talking about (i.e., OOP hell) | 15:07 |
| fenn | it's not, how is what emlyn is talking about a problem? | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | "yay let's give a printer a PaperForPrinterOnly object!" | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | *input of a PaperForPrinterOnly object! | 15:08 |
| kanzure_ | how is that *not* a GUID? | 15:08 |
| fenn | for attribute in PaperForPrinterOnly: assert paper-like-object hasattr(attribute) | 15:08 |
| fenn | i dont think we really need a new object just for that though | 15:09 |
| fenn | it's essentially the input requirements of the printer | 15:09 |
| fenn | so instead: for attribute in printer.requirements: assert ... | 15:09 |
| kanzure_ | so the input requirements, then, is not a package. | 15:10 |
| kanzure_ | instead it's an object | 15:10 |
| kanzure_ | defined elsewhere in the system it seems? | 15:10 |
| fenn | it's a list of requirements, which could be either measurements of interfaces | 15:10 |
| fenn | interface derives from measurement i guess | 15:10 |
| fenn | s/of/or/ | 15:11 |
| fenn | interface is a list of attributes | 15:11 |
| kanzure_ | still feels like an OOP situation sprouting here. .. how are you going to force everyone to use the same Objects? | 15:11 |
| fenn | if they don't, I will kill them. | 15:11 |
| fenn | seriously though, the code will break if they dont use the objects | 15:12 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/oldwww/codeninja/ | 15:12 |
| fenn | its sorta like asking "how are you going to enforce that people use the right function names in your library?" | 15:13 |
| fenn | well, if they don't, it won't compile | 15:13 |
| kanzure_ | but how do you know it will break? they will just come up with a new object | 15:13 |
| kanzure_ | instead of wading through 20,000 other packages | 15:13 |
| fenn | i hope the documentation would be good enough that it would be easier to use what exists than to write all new code | 15:13 |
| fenn | what is the alternative? | 15:14 |
| fenn | there's only so much you can do with introspection | 15:14 |
| kanzure_ | maybe I should just wait for you to type out some code so that I can see what you mean. | 15:15 |
| fenn | you have to say "is there a pipe coming out of it?" and it looks and says "no, there's only a tubular projection orifice" | 15:15 |
| kanzure_ | where everything goes, where what defines what, etc. | 15:15 |
| * kanzure_ pops some Adderall | 15:15 | |
| fenn | unless there's some way to link the concept "pipe" and "tubular projection orifice" then you can never resolve that "miss" | 15:16 |
| fenn | and like i said before, i dont think we have enough computer power to do every simulation between every package in every configuration | 15:16 |
| fenn | there has to be _some_ level of black box | 15:17 |
| fenn | or you end up running a simulated universe | 15:17 |
| fenn | (the set of all possible simulated universes, really) | 15:17 |
| fenn | how's the Adderall going? | 15:20 |
| fenn | i wonder if i can get a bunch of space nerds to telerobotically mow my lawn | 15:21 |
| kanzure_ | I'd do it, if I can get the mower every once in a while | 15:33 |
| kanzure_ | the Adderall goes well | 15:33 |
| kanzure_ | give it another 20 minutes to kick in. | 15:33 |
| kanzure_ | yay it's on | 15:36 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.pbs.org/newshour/video/module.html?mod=0&pkg=30122008&seg=4 | 15:37 |
| kanzure_ | Can anybody get a rip? | 15:37 |
| fenn | how bout i post replicable plans for the mower ins tead | 15:39 |
| kanzure_ | You have schematics? | 15:40 |
| fenn | http://www-tc.pbs.org/newshour/video/2008/12/30/20081230_4_living_machines.flv | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | fsck | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | thank you | 15:42 |
| fenn | i used "download helper" an annoying firefox plugin | 15:42 |
| kanzure_ | gasp, firefox. | 15:44 |
| fenn | konqueror doesnt have flash installed, and i like it that way | 15:45 |
| fenn | sheesh. "where's your biology license" wtf is that supposed to solve | 15:48 |
| kanzure_ | gasp! you don't have a level three classification! you *can't* fuck! | 15:49 |
| fenn | welcome to China! | 15:49 |
| kanzure_ | "god kills a kitten every .." | 15:52 |
| kanzure_ | that could be made into an interesting 4chan meme I'm sure. | 15:52 |
| kanzure_ | okay | 15:58 |
| kanzure_ | here we go | 15:58 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL4l8tg8oOU | 15:58 |
| fenn | hmm 4chan mention and anonymous youtube URL | 16:10 |
| fenn | do I really want to look? | 16:10 |
| kanzure_ | the youtube url is supposed to be the news clip | 16:10 |
| kanzure_ | yesterday I asked how long it would take to get the clip on youtube | 16:10 |
| kanzure_ | so apparently I have to do it myself :p | 16:10 |
| fenn | ah | 16:10 |
| kanzure_ | "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation." | 16:11 |
| kanzure_ | holy shit | 16:11 |
| kanzure_ | they work fast? | 16:11 |
| kanzure_ | "Rejected (length of video is too long)" | 16:11 |
| kanzure_ | hjlfdj;k.fdaskjl;fadsl; | 16:11 |
| fenn | you can probably chop off the breast cancer stuff at the end to get it under 10 mins | 16:12 |
| kanzure_ | how cruel | 16:13 |
| fenn | i sort of wonder why the magical 10 minutes | 16:13 |
| kanzure_ | you know that's how they sometimes deal with breast cancer, right? | 16:13 |
| kanzure_ | "eh just chop it off" | 16:13 |
| fenn | we're living in the dark ages, remember | 16:13 |
| kanzure_ | oh. | 16:13 |
| kanzure_ | gah, I have no video editing tools | 16:14 |
| kanzure_ | suggestions? | 16:14 |
| fenn | one sec | 16:14 |
| kanzure_ | gopchop? inigo? openmovieeditor? | 16:15 |
| fenn | mencoder 20081230_4_living_machines.flv -ovc copy -oac copy -endpos 10:00 -o yourvid.flv | 16:16 |
| kanzure_ | why can't youtube just shop it off | 16:16 |
| kanzure_ | shop heh' | 16:17 |
| fenn | mencoder 20081230_4_living_machines.flv -ovc copy -oac copy -endpos 532 -o yourvid.flv | 16:17 |
| kanzure_ | mencoder is from where now? | 16:17 |
| fenn | that's the right endtime | 16:17 |
| fenn | from a shell, silly | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | apt-cache search mencoder -> vstream-client ? | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | but installing vstream-client doesn't get it. | 16:18 |
| fenn | wtf | 16:18 |
| fenn | it comes with mplayer | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | but.. | 16:18 |
| fenn | have you never ripped a video before in linux? | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | guess not | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | wtf, apt-get install mplayer is downloading some stuff | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | how is it that I can run mplayer though without | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | without mplayer being installed? | 16:18 |
| kanzure_ | maybe it's a new package | 16:19 |
| kanzure_ | nope, mencoder still not found | 16:19 |
| fenn | mencoder is its own package apparently | 16:19 |
| fenn | oh, i'm using debian-multimedia btw | 16:19 |
| kanzure_ | dfjladka | 16:19 |
| kanzure_ | okay | 16:19 |
| * kanzure_ goes to the sources | 16:19 | |
| fenn | the regular debian mplayer package is fubared | 16:19 |
| fenn | go to debian-multimedia.net | 16:19 |
| fenn | er, .org | 16:20 |
| fenn | and then add some stuffs to your /etc/apt/sources.list | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | righ right | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | deb http://debian-multimedia.org/ etch main | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | apt-get update | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | the whole song and dance. | 16:20 |
| fenn | but i dont get why you wouldnt have mencoder if you have mplayer already | 16:20 |
| kanzure_ | hrm, broken packages? | 16:21 |
| kanzure_ | "the following packages have unmet dependencies: libavcodeccvs51, libavformatcvs51, libavutilcvs49, libpostproccvs51" | 16:21 |
| kanzure_ | -f install doesn't fix. | 16:22 |
| kanzure_ | am fixing.. | 16:22 |
| kanzure_ | mencoder still not found. Even after fixing those problems, and installing mplayer. | 16:30 |
| kanzure_ | Ah, separate package. | 16:31 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IIWH6Hhcnc <-- new url. wait for it to process please. | 16:46 |
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| kanzure_ | hi PeerInfinity. | 16:49 |
| PeerInfinity | hi kanzure :) | 16:50 |
| PeerInfinity | thanks again for showing me this chatroom :) | 16:51 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IIWH6Hhcnc finally | 16:55 |
| PeerInfinity | congratulations :) | 17:03 |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 31 17:55:10 2008 | ||
| --- Log opened Thu Jan 01 23:56:42 2009 | ||
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| kanzure_ | Back on my box. | 23:56 |
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