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| samrose | kanzure you may be interested in public-lod@w3.org lots of discussions there about some ideas similar to what you are doing with YAML and dependency ideas | 08:41 |
| kanzure_ | okay. I'm on the public-sem-web@w3.org list which is about bio + RDF-like stuff | 08:44 |
| kanzure_ | I'll check out -lod | 08:44 |
| kanzure_ | Analytical Biochemistry, Volume 137, Issue 1, 15 February 1984, Pages | 08:45 |
| kanzure_ | 156-160, An economic “power supply” using a diode for agarose and | 08:45 |
| kanzure_ | polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis, Y. Kadokami, K. Takao and K. | 08:45 |
| kanzure_ | Saigo | 08:45 |
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| samrose | Kanzure: is "Linking Open Data" there are some ideas there that are related to creating dependencies among open data, kind of like what you are thinking about doing with YAML/Python | 09:20 |
| samrose | Kanzure this is one related example http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lod/2009Jan/0030.html | 09:24 |
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| kanzure_ | I don't know what we'd do without Eric Hunting. :-) | 12:17 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=961 phd desks. | 13:04 |
| gene | hahahaha | 13:08 |
| gene | you started watching herbie yet? | 13:09 |
| kanzure_ | yes, but I stopped the other night because mplayer hiccuped and then dad died | 13:12 |
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| gene | ok | 13:19 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/folders.html <-- me keeping myself busy. thinking about organizing files. | 13:45 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www.congrex.nl/09c17/ The IJCAI-09 Workshop on Artificial Intelligence in Space | 14:41 |
| UtopiahGHML | (2001 Space Odyssey) | 14:42 |
| kanzure_ | http://bitcoin.org/ yet another p2p currency piece of crap | 14:55 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www.howtoorganizestuff.com/ .. nice juxtaposition with howstuffworks. | 16:28 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: it occurs to me that the debtools "use-case scenario" parameter selection mechanism could be used to help automate folder packrat behavior. | 16:31 |
| kanzure_ | All hail c2.com. http://web.archive.org/web/20070329052658/http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~maratb/readings/NoSilverBullet.html | 16:38 |
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| kanzure_ | http://www.labautopedia.org/mw/index.php/Main_Page "Created by the Association for Laboratory Automation (ALA), LabAutopedia is a collaborative compilation of the world's laboratory automation knowledge continually grown and updated by an online community. " | 17:06 |
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| kanzure_ | crap, I have to write a eulogy. | 20:06 |
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| fenn | "the more time you have to spend typing out the path name" ever heard of tab-completion? | 22:18 |
| fenn | dunno what you mean debtools use-case scenario | 22:19 |
| fenn | obviously sorting things by intended use is a good way to find it when you need it | 22:19 |
| fenn | http://www.aislebyaisle.com/ if only they delivered... | 22:36 |
| fenn | "These gains flow from the transformation of computer manufacture from an assembly industry into a process industry." | 22:39 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: ultimately folders should only be seen if I'm fixing something (or making something new) | 22:43 |
| kanzure_ | I like how I don't have to deal with 'systems folders' on a day to day basis unless I need to | 22:43 |
| fenn | hasnt it always been like that? | 22:44 |
| kanzure_ | no, I have these ridiculously huge tree structs on my hard drives for squirrling things into various corners of the partitions. | 22:44 |
| fenn | what about the 'locate' command? | 22:44 |
| kanzure_ | it helps :) | 22:44 |
| fenn | namazu is ok too | 22:45 |
| kanzure_ | search is not the solution | 22:45 |
| fenn | especially for info that you didnt do the squirreling | 22:45 |
| kanzure_ | anyway, now that I have your attention | 22:45 |
| * fenn braces for impact | 22:45 | |
| kanzure_ | well I'm just starting to notice that Eric is starting to want to do a fablab-like startup thingy | 22:45 |
| kanzure_ | (Eric Hunting) | 22:45 |
| fenn | he's been wanting to do that for a couple years | 22:45 |
| kanzure_ | just keeping track of a list of people interested in it | 22:46 |
| fenn | ok | 22:46 |
| kanzure_ | Todd Huffman is interested too. He's considering doing it with his own money. | 22:46 |
| fenn | i doubt he would be willing to go anywhere or use a lab not built by him | 22:46 |
| kanzure_ | Since he partly funded the Afghanistan fablab, I think I he might be able to pull it off | 22:46 |
| fenn | considering doing what? | 22:47 |
| fenn | oh "fablab-like startup" you mean techshop.ws but less teh suck? | 22:47 |
| kanzure_ | pulling up a fablab-startup. Todd's idea is more based around "ycombinator but geared towards fablabs", so fablab+incubator. | 22:47 |
| kanzure_ | sort of. | 22:47 |
| fenn | yc is a venture capital fund | 22:47 |
| kanzure_ | yes, but with us at the core heh' <- not going to lie here. | 22:47 |
| fenn | i could make a pretty cool techshop | 22:48 |
| kanzure_ | Todd's a smart guy, he understands the "fablabs making more fablabs" idea | 22:48 |
| fenn | indeed | 22:48 |
| kanzure_ | so no worries there | 22:48 |
| fenn | it might actually have some impact if it were semi-self-replicable | 22:48 |
| kanzure_ | and since he does bilconference, who knows, he might have magical angel investors | 22:48 |
| fenn | so, i think it should be in austin, or anywhere but {boston, ny, sf} | 22:49 |
| fenn | since they are already saturated | 22:49 |
| kanzure_ | anywhere but? | 22:49 |
| kanzure_ | huh | 22:49 |
| kanzure_ | but the problem with other areas is that tools and materials aren't as easily grabbable | 22:49 |
| fenn | grabbable? | 22:49 |
| kanzure_ | fetchable? | 22:49 |
| fenn | have you ever heard of "the rust belt" | 22:49 |
| kanzure_ | this ain't it | 22:49 |
| * fenn doesnt know his texas geography | 22:50 | |
| kanzure_ | (and no, not really, I'm in the wrong part of the continent) | 22:50 |
| kanzure_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt | 22:50 |
| kanzure_ | that graph makes me cry | 22:50 |
| fenn | for robotics stuff the best place to be is san diego | 22:50 |
| fenn | for semiconductor surplus crap i mean | 22:50 |
| fenn | but there are a lot of good old machine tools in ohio-ish | 22:50 |
| kanzure_ | right | 22:51 |
| kanzure_ | I think it's a mix of where the investors are, and where the cheap equipment is | 22:51 |
| fenn | yeah the investors are generally nowhere near cheap equipment | 22:51 |
| kanzure_ | hrm | 22:51 |
| kanzure_ | "Afghanistan!" | 22:52 |
| kanzure_ | "erm. how about Austin?" | 22:52 |
| fenn | no shit | 22:52 |
| fenn | that's basically my take on OLPC | 22:52 |
| fenn | wow 'Ohio is a 'closed shop' state, which means workers can be forced to join a union whether they wish to or not.' | 22:53 |
| kanzure_ | yikes | 22:53 |
| kanzure_ | so when I try to formulate an explanation of what sort of startup I'd hope this would be, it turns into saying "design firm" | 22:53 |
| kanzure_ | but really I just mean to say 'cygnus + fablab' I guess | 22:53 |
| fenn | what services are you providing | 22:53 |
| fenn | better to say what you do rather than what you "are" (insert reference to e-prime here) | 22:54 |
| kanzure_ | design consulting? Implementation? | 22:54 |
| fenn | specific use case please | 22:54 |
| fenn | i would like a build a fully automated grocery store, ca you do that? | 22:54 |
| kanzure_ | some random company needs us to design them some manufacturing assembly equipment. We say we'll do it cheaper (or whatever), we license it all open source and so on, make our money from it, and apply it to what we need to get done in our tech-base of free stuff anyway. | 22:55 |
| fenn | most manufacturing equipment is all just overpriced lego-blocks anyway | 22:55 |
| fenn | unless it's a "unit" | 22:55 |
| kanzure_ | I don't know if there's some better idea to come across than "a super machine shop" | 22:55 |
| kanzure_ | because I'm going to be unhappy without any equipment | 22:56 |
| fenn | what does this equipment do | 22:56 |
| kanzure_ | fancy our interest | 22:56 |
| fenn | heh | 22:57 |
| fenn | you could make motorcycles | 22:57 |
| fenn | i mean, buy motorcycles and put stickers on them | 22:57 |
| kanzure_ | basically I'm taking the redhat/cygnus model and going from there. | 22:57 |
| fenn | the other day i was thinking about cnc-cutting styrofoam insulation into moulds for concrete countertops | 22:57 |
| kanzure_ | there's some code base (or not, presently), and then consulting, feature-specific development, technical support, installation at a price. Or comissioned work. | 22:58 |
| fenn | what's "installation" mean | 22:58 |
| kanzure_ | "help I ordered my fablab but it's all in a lot of boxes and I'm technically illiterate at this point" | 22:59 |
| fenn | oh | 22:59 |
| fenn | uh.. | 22:59 |
| kanzure_ | *my superfablab | 22:59 |
| kanzure_ | meh | 22:59 |
| fenn | hmm | 22:59 |
| kanzure_ | also, the basic idea of the "buy" button on packages in skdb of course | 22:59 |
| fenn | this is sort of what i'm planning for hextatic/hexegrity | 22:59 |
| fenn | open source but you can buy a kit or i can assemble/troubleshoot for you | 23:00 |
| kanzure_ | plus plus "feel free to hire us to do something even more awesome, or something that you need that would be a pain in the ass for you to hire developers for" | 23:01 |
| fenn | do = software development? or hardware development? | 23:01 |
| kanzure_ | both? | 23:01 |
| kanzure_ | (read that as "what's wrong with both?") | 23:02 |
| kanzure_ | I'd hope it'd be more hardware, but I'm by far the last person to have issues doing software consulting in that sort of context | 23:02 |
| kanzure_ | heh. google's "20% rule" (of personal projects) .. "I made an automated grocery store with my 20% last month.." [or whatever's reasonable for that sort of time commitment- depends on what's laying around and available in the repos] | 23:04 |
| fenn | automated grocery store doesn't really work well on a personal budget | 23:04 |
| kanzure_ | well it'd be with the superfablab-machine-shop-awesome-thing's resources, that'd be my guess | 23:05 |
| fenn | i mean, i can slap a box of beans on the shelf pretty easily | 23:05 |
| fenn | it's sort of a network effect, you can go to this one place and have your whole list dumped in a box on a conveyor belt in twenty seconds | 23:05 |
| fenn | on the other hand i like the way trader joe's stocks only generic products | 23:06 |
| fenn | you've probably never heard of trader joe's | 23:06 |
| kanzure_ | nope. sorry. | 23:06 |
| fenn | sort of a cross between whole foods and costco | 23:06 |
| fenn | i spent an hour sorting visually-identical yet incompatible clear plastic food containers | 23:07 |
| kanzure_ | ok | 23:07 |
| fenn | (today) | 23:07 |
| fenn | so much for intercompatible parts | 23:07 |
| kanzure_ | ugh, so many different plastic tuperware product lines | 23:08 |
| kanzure_ | asshats. that's what they are. | 23:08 |
| fenn | indeed | 23:08 |
| fenn | i've forbidden the use of tupperware products in my home | 23:08 |
| fenn | but even the supposedly compatible tapered cylindrical containers are not always | 23:09 |
| kanzure_ | why do they even stock the different plastic tupperware product lines in the stores though? | 23:09 |
| kanzure_ | have you ever walked through those? I've been through with my mom many years ago | 23:09 |
| kanzure_ | and it's kind of unreasonable. | 23:09 |
| kanzure_ | "why do you stock all 12 of these? they are practically identical." | 23:09 |
| kanzure_ | "well, it's options" | 23:09 |
| kanzure_ | *cough* | 23:10 |
| kanzure_ | "choose your poison" I guess. | 23:10 |
| fenn | i generally go with the one that will be around in five years | 23:10 |
| fenn | too bad there is no open source tupperware container :P | 23:11 |
| fenn | i should do that | 23:11 |
| kanzure_ | heh. late night infomercials. | 23:12 |
| fenn | requirements: cnc lathe, two blocks of wood, vacuum forming machine | 23:12 |
| fenn | nfc where to get polypropylene sheet though | 23:12 |
| kanzure_ | what thickness | 23:12 |
| gene | you could 3d print some tupperware fenn | 23:12 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=15654&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1&top_cat=0 | 23:13 |
| fenn | gene: i'll believe it once it's been demonstrated | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | 0.25" http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=15654&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1&top_cat=0 | 23:13 |
| gene | ok send me a model of the tupperware you want to replicate | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | 0.5" http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=15656&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1&top_cat=0 | 23:13 |
| fenn | uh.. $5 per sheet? | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | 1" http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=15656&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1&top_cat=0 | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | hrm | 23:13 |
| fenn | i think it should be like 0.2mm | 23:13 |
| gene | I get for the most part free 3d prints | 23:13 |
| fenn | or about 8 mil | 23:14 |
| gene | that's thick | 23:14 |
| kanzure_ | 1.5 mm http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=15650&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1&top_cat=0 | 23:14 |
| gene | so I've been thinking about your UAV idea fenn | 23:14 |
| gene | and how you might implement it | 23:14 |
| fenn | yeah the skyhook is ok | 23:14 |
| fenn | needs a sort of runway though | 23:14 |
| gene | http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/ModernMechanix/3-1935/plane_mail.jpg | 23:15 |
| gene | check this out | 23:15 |
| fenn | or maybe not, not sure how quickly it goes up vs sideways | 23:15 |
| fenn | it actually shoots the package at the plane? | 23:16 |
| gene | skyhook is great for picking up mail given that there is little wind, cheap hydrogen and few trees in pick up area | 23:16 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: so just keep the startup idea still cooking.. if there's a better way than 'consulting pluses' to make it happen, I'll listen. but direct development might sound stupid to investors ('gee, sounds like I won't make money in a post-money system.") | 23:16 |
| gene | no it gets attached to the cable | 23:16 |
| * kanzure_ goes | 23:16 | |
| gene | catapult just makes sure it's going as fast as the plane is | 23:16 |
| gene | but that's a fairly complex mechanism | 23:17 |
| fenn | yeah | 23:17 |
| gene | really only suitable for an exchange hub | 23:17 |
| gene | I think electric might be the way to go | 23:17 |
| fenn | and you have to drop off a package to pick up a package | 23:18 |
| gene | you could have a hook go down instead | 23:18 |
| gene | maybe there are more old patents on airplane mail | 23:19 |
| gene | another drop off mechanism is a tall pole with a Y on top | 23:22 |
| fenn | i generally want it to be free of ground infrastructure | 23:23 |
| gene | to deliver the package the plane extend a cable with an aerodynamic pod | 23:23 |
| fenn | a balloon and a string could be mailed out as a promotional item | 23:23 |
| fenn | some sort of hydrogen reaction in a bag for filling the balloon | 23:24 |
| gene | the plane flies through the Y and releases the cable | 23:24 |
| fenn | that would just rip the y apart or break the cable | 23:24 |
| gene | and the package is delivered | 23:24 |
| gene | not if it is a steel y | 23:25 |
| fenn | the reason fulton's skyhook works is the balloon/cable has almost zero mass | 23:25 |
| gene | the problem with the skyhook is that the balloon gets released | 23:25 |
| gene | and wind | 23:25 |
| fenn | you've got this package going 900 miles an hour and that kinetic energy has to go somewhere | 23:25 |
| fenn | the balloon needn't get released | 23:25 |
| gene | you can slow an RC plane down to slow speeds if you build it right | 23:26 |
| fenn | sure you can make it hover if you build it right | 23:26 |
| gene | that might work | 23:26 |
| fenn | see previous discussion of how two tethered planes going in a circle is really a big helicopter | 23:27 |
| gene | hover above the spot, and lower package to ground via cable and cut cable | 23:27 |
| gene | string is fairly cheap and used in packaging | 23:27 |
| fenn | kanzure_: maybe you need to attach some "context" metadata to your in/out going email | 23:29 |
| fenn | and then sort based on that | 23:29 |
| fenn | i wonder if you mean to link here earlier instead http://c2.com/cgi/wiki/wiki?FileSystemAlternatives | 23:34 |
| fenn | or some other c2 link | 23:37 |
| fenn | A "white panties" directory, a "blonde" directory, an "asians" directory. What do you do do with a blonde in white panties, or a picture of a blone and asian both in white panties? | 23:40 |
| fenn | and those damned blonde asians just mess everything up | 23:40 |
| gene | ??? | 23:49 |
| gene | any of you guys checked out the moon tonight? | 23:49 |
| gene | it's lunar perigee | 23:50 |
| fenn | fascinating. | 23:51 |
| fenn | it's what, 5% bigger than normal? | 23:51 |
| gene | yeah | 23:52 |
| gene | where I am there's a halo around the moon | 23:53 |
| gene | white panties directory, WTF? | 23:55 |
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