| --- Day changed Sun Jan 11 2009 | ||
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| gene_ | I don't want to know | 00:00 |
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| fenn | http://www.shirky.com/writings/ontology_overrated.html some diagrams, blarg | 00:05 |
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| kanzure_ | http://roboticscourseware.org/ | 11:41 |
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| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/shots/2009-01-11_AustinAmericanStatesman_obit.png | 11:56 |
| --- Log closed Sun Jan 11 12:12:04 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Sat Jan 17 14:30:05 2009 | ||
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| kanzure | samrose: I just got an email from Zach Smith. | 14:38 |
| kanzure | apparently he's the only programmer behind thingiverse | 14:38 |
| kanzure | and he's totally for the packaging format stuffs :) | 14:38 |
| kanzure | and in fact it seems like he'd be willing to do some collaboration | 14:38 |
| kanzure | you mentioned you were wanting to do something similar a while back, esp. re: the web interface. | 14:39 |
| genehacker_ | hahaha | 15:02 |
| kanzure | Zack Hoecken, I mean. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | genehacker_: Are you back yet? | 15:03 |
| genehacker_ | I know who Zach is | 15:03 |
| genehacker_ | I will be today why? | 15:03 |
| kanzure | Just wondering. Sata was asking when he was at my house on Thursday. | 15:03 |
| genehacker_ | I'm thinking of making some stuff for thingiverse | 15:04 |
| kanzure | will you CC-BY-SA it? | 15:04 |
| genehacker_ | well I don't think I will be able to take much in the way of algae samples | 15:04 |
| kanzure | *will you license it as CC-BY-SA | 15:04 |
| genehacker_ | in order to take an algae samples I have to take 2 liters of water | 15:05 |
| genehacker_ | yeah sure | 15:05 |
| genehacker_ | does SKDB work to some degree? | 15:05 |
| genehacker_ | could I throw a bunch of parts into it to see if I could make something that could assemble itself from the parts? | 15:06 |
| kanzure | to some degree. let me explain: | 15:07 |
| kanzure | you can throw those parts in, yes, and if you wanted to see if they could make all of the parts that you throw in, that would be doable | 15:07 |
| kanzure | but what you want to do is check *assembly* which is something a bit different than just make-dependencies | 15:07 |
| kanzure | for just the make-dependency analysis, you don't need to do much really | 15:07 |
| kanzure | but for assembly, that would require the instructions to be in some data object | 15:08 |
| genehacker_ | could you do it for legos? | 15:08 |
| kanzure | so here's how you'd do assembly checking | 15:08 |
| kanzure | you'd look at the instructions for assembling the overall part, and then you'd check to see if each of the steps involved goes to the other parts only | 15:08 |
| kanzure | so if you say "step 2 move part 3 to part 4" then it will stab you in the face | 15:09 |
| kanzure | unless 'move' is a part too. | 15:09 |
| kanzure | (and it won't actually look like "step 2 move part 3 to part 4" .. that's why I say XML/YAML/data-object-thingy) | 15:09 |
| kanzure | there was this huge thread on om about recipe representation actually | 15:09 |
| kanzure3 | http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/tree/browse_frm/thread/a8d8ee245aaae97d/7a19a3b45e8f94d5?rnum=1&q=recipe+representation&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fopenmanufacturing%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2Fa8d8ee245aaae97d%3Ftvc%3D1%26q%3Drecipe%2Brepresentation%26#doc_7a19a3b45e8f94d5 | 15:10 |
| genehacker_ | lego cad software has a handy dandy, make into step feature | 15:10 |
| kanzure | lego instructions are always pictorial though | 15:10 |
| kanzure | right? | 15:10 |
| genehacker_ | yeah | 15:10 |
| kanzure | hrm, I might as well check it out though | 15:10 |
| kanzure | I do remember using a lego cad program once, but it wasn't from Lego the company | 15:11 |
| genehacker_ | then download MLcad | 15:11 |
| kanzure | is this the one with "make into step"? | 15:11 |
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| genehacker_ | yeah | 15:12 |
| genehacker_ | it's still pictorial though | 15:12 |
| kanzure | so basically: state of your lego construction before, state of your lego thingy afterwards, | 15:12 |
| kanzure | and then it just spits out a rendering of the state change? | 15:12 |
| genehacker_ | yeah, and you can figure it out from there | 15:12 |
| genehacker_ | pretty much | 15:12 |
| kanzure | not what I was hoping for, but ok | 15:13 |
| genehacker_ | I don't really know that much about it | 15:13 |
| genehacker_ | I haven't tried the make step feature | 15:13 |
| kanzure | ldraw027.exe hangs on extraction via wine. | 15:16 |
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| kanzure | "processing archive: Z:\... \n archive date: 1997-07-25 00:05:24 \n Continue extraction? no" <- infinite loop | 15:17 |
| kanzure | or something. | 15:17 |
| kanzure3 | http://arj.sourcearchive.com/documentation/3.10.22/arjsfx_8c-source.html blah .. have to compile it myself maybe? | 15:19 |
| samrose | kanzure, yeah! I am interested for sure | 15:19 |
| samrose | met Zack Smith online | 15:19 |
| kanzure | ah, good | 15:19 |
| samrose | we should figure out a way to coordinate. I was mirroring your backend work, and trying to make it all work with python tools (mercurial, hatta wiki, etc) | 15:20 |
| kanzure | well, supposedly that's what OM is for | 15:20 |
| kanzure | if it weren't for the damned economists | 15:20 |
| kanzure | naysaying economists as it were.. | 15:20 |
| samrose | mercurial = GIT hatta = whatever that wiki engine you were using is, etc | 15:20 |
| genehacker_ | well what I want to find out is if there is a set of lego parts capable of apply enough force to put together and pull apart other lego parts | 15:21 |
| kanzure | what I recommended to Zach was that he could help out by just dumping the CC content and then I'd write up some shell scripts to pretty up the data a bit | 15:21 |
| samrose | ah, yeah. I am probably jumping ahead a bit | 15:21 |
| kanzure | but his data will not have an 'instructions format' nor interoperability information. | 15:21 |
| kanzure | nor dependency information | 15:22 |
| kanzure | so at a minimum I want to get the data set out there | 15:22 |
| kanzure | and then we can all go on a metadata spree all over it heh' | 15:22 |
| kanzure | (as opposed to me writing a crawler over thingiverse, which I would have done anyway, but at least this way we might get some of the data in a pretty format) | 15:23 |
| kanzure | genehacker_: wait, what? That sounds simpler than what you wanted to do earlier. | 15:23 |
| kanzure | just go look at the lego catalog for lego actuator parts.. | 15:23 |
| genehacker_ | I mean sets of parts capable of grasping parts | 15:24 |
| kanzure | brb, fetching lunch | 15:25 |
| genehacker_ | packing so I am semi here | 15:26 |
| kanzure | wow | 15:33 |
| kanzure | so it worked, it's a 'pending transaction' according to the broker/bank | 15:33 |
| kanzure | for precisely $0.37 | 15:34 |
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| genehacker_ | afk, email if you have any questions kanzure | 17:24 |
| kanzure | k | 17:24 |
| kanzure3 | well that's disappointing. Wesley Crusher grew up to become a twitterfag: http://twitter.com/wilw | 18:15 |
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| kanzure | Hi samrose. | 19:19 |
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| * kanzure goes over his father's financial records | 23:25 | |
| kanzure | "last updated: 2009-01-05" .. blah.. | 23:26 |
| kanzure | hrm. this is rather revealing. wtf is all of this. | 23:26 |
| fenn | death and taxes, which do you think will be conquered first? | 23:26 |
| kanzure | (1) what would happen if the house spontaneously went up in flames now? insurance policies are still in effect | 23:27 |
| fenn | is there some way to access a deceased person's online accounts? | 23:27 |
| kanzure | (2) yes | 23:27 |
| kanzure | thousands of passwords all written down in a neatly organized notebook and excel doc | 23:27 |
| kanzure | cross-referenced to account numbers, totals, projections, mutual funds, stocks, bonds, assets, property, .. | 23:28 |
| kanzure | this is sick. | 23:28 |
| fenn | well, that's nice if they keep that info around, but i dont write down passwords for example | 23:28 |
| kanzure | s/they/he/ | 23:28 |
| kanzure | ok, time for me to go do some logging in | 23:30 |
| kanzure | I doubt the others would bother to save teh transaction logs anyway | 23:30 |
| fenn | is datahub like for screen scraping? | 23:35 |
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| genehacker | hey kanzure, you there? | 23:45 |
| genehacker | I'm back | 23:45 |
| kanzure3 | yes | 23:45 |
| kanzure3 | just going through dad's financials | 23:45 |
| kanzure3 | and reading fenn's guinea-pig log. | 23:45 |
| kanzure3 | fenn, are you maintaining consistent written ways of saying the same activities that you have done over long periods of time? i.e., the domestics prefix seems to be common, but net isn't domestic, or something | 23:46 |
| fenn | yes the categories are consistent except for the first six months or so | 23:50 |
| fenn | out of four years | 23:50 |
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| kanzure3 | fenn, let's say that you spontaneously do something new today that hasn't been said before | 23:50 |
| kanzure3 | and then you do this same new thing a few months from now | 23:50 |
| genehacker_ | winblows just crashed | 23:50 |
| kanzure3 | how do you preserve the categorization? | 23:50 |
| fenn | um.. i don't | 23:51 |
| kanzure3 | without digging through the logs | 23:51 |
| kanzure3 | don't do anything new, or don't preserve it? | 23:51 |
| kanzure3 | I guess I'm looking at it the wrong way | 23:51 |
| fenn | i figure a category with 2 entries isnt much worse than 2 categories with one entry | 23:51 |
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| kanzure3 | "long-term analysis v. back-tracing at a particular time for something bad" | 23:51 |
| fenn | or something good | 23:52 |
| kanzure3 | (whereas the analysis stuff would require very coherent classification) | 23:52 |
| fenn | i wish i had figured out some way to keep track of how i feel (physiologically) | 23:52 |
| fenn | not really | 23:52 |
| fenn | consider words as tags | 23:53 |
| kanzure3 | pulse, weight, blood pressure, but this doesn't convey much information unless you spontaneously get radiation sickness | 23:53 |
| genehacker | what are you talking about, what did I miss? | 23:53 |
| kanzure3 | yeah, even if words were tags, I was thinking of 'using the data for broad generalizations' which data generally shouldn't be used for | 23:53 |
| kanzure3 | genehacker: obsessive compulsive life logging | 23:53 |
| fenn | a post on a mailing list you arent subscribed to | 23:53 |
| genehacker | ah cool | 23:53 |
| * kanzure3 glances at dad's obsessive compulsive financial logging.. | 23:54 | |
| kanzure3 | all hail the mighty dollar | 23:54 |
| fenn | i wonder if datahub does anything | 23:54 |
| kanzure3 | oops, sorry, lemme check the emails | 23:54 |
| kanzure3 | http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/DataHub | 23:55 |
| kanzure3 | so it looks like django to me | 23:56 |
| fenn | yeah but what is the end result? | 23:56 |
| kanzure3 | well, the email was talking about folders for the 'main steps of the work cycle' | 23:56 |
| fenn | is there a demo or screenshots or something? | 23:56 |
| kanzure3 | scrape-parse-put somewhere-document-visualize | 23:56 |
| genehacker | hey the dollar is the best thing we have until wuffie | 23:56 |
| fenn | genehacker: why can't we do whuffie now? | 23:57 |
| kanzure3 | but what could these templates be? parsing is the domain of regexps, surely there's no black magic in this datahub thingy | 23:57 |
| kanzure3 | why can't we do no money now? | 23:57 |
| * kanzure3 hands out free energy | 23:57 | |
| fenn | http://bitchun.org/ | 23:57 |
| kanzure3 | http://bitcoin.org/ | 23:57 |
| fenn | hrm seems bitchun went downhill | 23:57 |
| kanzure3 | <-- is secretly just an associative bayesian filtering system | 23:58 |
| genehacker | kanzure you can't get free energy, you can however steal energy from other universes | 23:58 |
| kanzure3 | genehacker: free as in monetarily free | 23:58 |
| kanzure3 | free as in really free. | 23:58 |
| genehacker | monetarily free a hundred billion years from now? | 23:58 |
| kanzure3 | restate? | 23:58 |
| genehacker | after all the stars die and things get cold | 23:59 |
| fenn | if one could steal energy from other universes, why dont we see a deficit of energy? | 23:59 |
| fenn | anyway it's academic.. we get 1kW/m^2 on earth approx 12 hours a day | 23:59 |
| genehacker | it's a joke fenn, it'd be better emigrate to other universes than steal energy from them | 23:59 |
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