| --- Day changed Thu Feb 05 2009 | ||
| kanzure3_ | http://www.greenergadgets.com/index.php/design-competition/ "vote now for your favorite greener gadgets" | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| gene_ | so what do you say that just for the heck of it we enter our bioreactor in that campus challenge thign | 00:08 |
| gene_ | http://www.greenergadgets.com/index.php/design-competition/ | 00:09 |
| gene_ | I used to have a problem with one computer I had, it had a primarily plastic case | 00:10 |
| gene_ | needless to say, it almost jammed AM radios | 00:10 |
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| UtopiahGHML | for the person who shared the link on stigmergic collboration there is also (Springer 2006) http://rapidshare.com/files/165310709/ebook.Stigmergic_Optimization_Studies_in_Computational_Intelligence.3540346899.zip | 03:41 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://biosciences-ashish.blogspot.com/ | 05:58 |
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| kanzure3_ | "Control of a system is exercised by the element with the greatest | 08:15 |
| kanzure3_ | variety of behavioral responses." | 08:15 |
| nsh | source? | 08:15 |
| fenn | what's that from? | 08:15 |
| fenn | systemantics? | 08:15 |
| kanzure3_ | yes | 08:15 |
| fenn | aha. i knew it | 08:15 |
| fenn | because it was totally wrong yet stated confidently | 08:16 |
| * nsh smiles | 08:16 | |
| kanzure3_ | viruses? | 08:16 |
| fenn | gravity? | 08:16 |
| kanzure3_ | flap fast enough and you win? | 08:17 |
| fenn | TMI | 08:18 |
| kanzure3_ | ? | 08:18 |
| * nsh is no longer following | 08:20 | |
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| kanzure3_ | http://tropicaldisease.org/ another OSDD-like open source drug discovery project | 08:28 |
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| kanzure2- | Say, I wonder if it would help the diybio list if we forced everything about security to some alternative list, like diybio-security | 11:38 |
| kanzure2- | or rather, | 11:38 |
| kanzure2- | diybio-fearmongering | 11:38 |
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| kanzure3_ | well now, that's interesting | 17:32 |
| kanzure3_ | have just entered the facebook seen for ADL | 17:32 |
| kanzure3_ | David, the guy doing automated product disassembly work, lists favorite TV shows as "Neon Genesis Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Love Hina, Muteki Kanban Musume, Samurai Champloo, Ergo Proxy, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱)," | 17:32 |
| gene | haha | 17:34 |
| gene | must be an otaku | 17:34 |
| gene | wonder if I should join the group | 17:34 |
| kanzure | *scene | 17:34 |
| kanzure | he doesn't seem like the type. | 17:35 |
| gene | that's what they say about things like that sometimes | 17:36 |
| gene | automatic product disassembly? | 17:37 |
| kanzure | using graphsynth though :( | 17:37 |
| kanzure | basically, | 17:38 |
| kanzure | maximizing mass recovered and minimizing the total disassembly time (presumably the unit here is 'steps') | 17:38 |
| gene | what we really need is a piece of software that takes solidworks assemblies, and turns them into commands for how to move robot arms | 17:39 |
| kanzure | do we not have that? | 17:39 |
| kanzure | I mean, that's not terribly hard | 17:39 |
| gene | or maybe just serve as a 'goal' for the robot to do that | 17:39 |
| gene | really? | 17:40 |
| kanzure | can you dig me up a link that describes the solidworks assembly fileformat? | 17:40 |
| kanzure | once you know the file format, you can wire that up into the Robot Research Group's software, | 17:40 |
| kanzure | or in a worst case scenario, I figure we can generate simple instructions like which order things have to go in | 17:40 |
| kanzure | and then at the very end the fine motor detail like forces and stuff | 17:40 |
| gene | I mean have the robot recognize what the finished product is supposed to look like, so if it makes a mistake it doesn't mess up | 17:40 |
| kanzure | (which is where it gets complicated, but the easy stuff first) | 17:41 |
| kanzure | oh | 17:41 |
| kanzure | that's kind of stupid though | 17:41 |
| kanzure | why not let it do it blind? | 17:41 |
| gene | it's harder to do blind | 17:41 |
| kanzure | how so | 17:41 |
| kanzure | I mean, if you have all of the data up front | 17:42 |
| gene | one of the main costs of automatic assembly is programming the robots | 17:42 |
| kanzure | no, this can be done automatically | 17:42 |
| kanzure | I mean, the programming thereof | 17:42 |
| kanzure | that's what CAM is.. | 17:42 |
| gene | what if you drop a bolt? how do you pick it up? | 17:42 |
| kanzure | why would you drop a bolt | 17:43 |
| kanzure | it's supposed to be programmed to not drop a bolt.. | 17:43 |
| kanzure | have the bolts coming in via feeder tube to the mechanically actuated arm thingy that screws the bolts.. | 17:43 |
| gene | well Kanzure, feeders have to be designed for each bolt, each part | 17:44 |
| kanzure | true, but to some extent the details are only slightly variable between each part | 17:44 |
| kanzure | consider a catalog of bolts | 17:44 |
| gene | hmmm.... | 17:44 |
| kanzure | at most, I can imagine variation in a few size dimensions | 17:45 |
| kanzure | anything else though? | 17:45 |
| gene | one robotic arm one part | 17:45 |
| gene | not very efficient | 17:45 |
| kanzure | nobody said that :) | 17:45 |
| kanzure | I thought you knew about workercells | 17:46 |
| kanzure | or robotic arm cells or whatever | 17:46 |
| gene | a dedicated assembly for putting in one part might be more efficient | 17:46 |
| kanzure | that's true of course. | 17:46 |
| kanzure | just saying: | 17:46 |
| gene | so what I am saying is one robotic arm almost all parts | 17:46 |
| wrldpc | does bkero just tape down the penny electrodes? | 17:46 |
| kanzure | (1) it is possible to program robotic arm worker cells to assemble a variety of differenyl dimensioned parts | 17:46 |
| gene | really? | 17:46 |
| kanzure | (2) it is also possible to somewhat automatically generate custom-made assembly jigs thingies | 17:46 |
| kanzure | for #1, see CAM to some extent I guess | 17:46 |
| kanzure | wrldpc: heh, don't know :) | 17:47 |
| gene | I thought workercells need cameras? | 17:47 |
| wrldpc | hehe | 17:47 |
| kanzure | gene: one robotic arm for all parts. I think that's possible, but I'm not sure | 17:47 |
| kanzure | gene: really? cameras? | 17:47 |
| kanzure | hrm | 17:47 |
| gene | yeah | 17:47 |
| kanzure | why would they *need* cameras? | 17:47 |
| gene | to know where the part is | 17:47 |
| gene | to know if something is wrong | 17:47 |
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| gene | so you say #1 is possible? Has it been done? | 17:48 |
| gene | is there software to do #1? | 17:48 |
| kanzure | I thought so? CAM software, right? | 17:50 |
| kanzure | but yes, there's been some papers I've recently linked to | 17:50 |
| kanzure | that do automatic assembly instruction generation | 17:50 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/ click the "date added" or whatever, and then click it again so that you can order the list of files by most recent | 17:50 |
| kanzure | and then there are a few papers that are obviously related to this theme | 17:50 |
| gene | well then that makes the challenge of building a replicator a lot easier | 17:51 |
| kanzure | how so? | 17:52 |
| kanzure | I mean, that's why we're doing the software that we're doing in here .. | 17:52 |
| kanzure | automatic assembly instructions etc. | 17:52 |
| gene | we don't have to design the jigs | 17:52 |
| kanzure | well, arguably, jigs might be useful in some situations like #2 | 17:52 |
| gene | so what does it take to make a robotic arm that can assemble itself from parts? | 17:53 |
| kanzure | it's more important to ask how to make those parts though | 17:54 |
| kanzure | and then if those operations are doable by a robotic arm, etc. | 17:54 |
| kanzure | didn't we already talk about this? | 17:54 |
| kanzure | sometime last year, maybe in October. | 17:54 |
| kanzure | check the logs | 17:54 |
| gene | http://www.motoman.com/products/robots/models/DA20.php | 17:58 |
| gene | jigless assembly | 17:58 |
| gene | hmmm... | 18:02 |
| gene | I think I now have more appreciation for having two arms | 18:02 |
| gene | http://www.eetimes.com/special/special_issues/millennium/milestones/kilby.html | 18:05 |
| gene | http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1964-Hybrid.html | 18:10 |
| gene | more info | 18:10 |
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| kanzure3_ | hahah | 18:22 |
| kanzure3_ | marc fawzi "I think that in general, you're good at finding information, but as far as your ability to reason, ..." | 18:22 |
| kanzure3_ | this guy needs to fall over and die | 18:22 |
| kanzure3_ | I have never wished ill harm to anyone | 18:22 |
| kanzure3_ | but seriously. | 18:22 |
| gene | φ | 18:24 |
| gene | just figured out unicode | 18:25 |
| gene | oh yeah did you hear the ME 3d printer is broken? | 18:26 |
| gene | :( | 18:26 |
| fenn | whoops.. guess i shouldnt have printed that monkey wrench | 18:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: marc fawzi has invaded the postscarcity/abundance mailing list | 18:28 |
| kanzure | and now claims that I lack reasoning skills | 18:28 |
| kanzure | what in the fuck is going on | 18:29 |
| kanzure | how do I stop this *NOW* | 18:29 |
| kanzure | I've tried talking to Joseph Jackson about Marc | 18:29 |
| kanzure | Paul agrees that Marc is a terrible thing, | 18:29 |
| kanzure | but this troll is still hurting things | 18:29 |
| kanzure | what do I do? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/postscarcity (also, Nathan is apparently now at Factor E Farm) | 18:29 |
| fenn | heh dunno man, i'm just happy he's not on OM anymore :) | 18:30 |
| kanzure | hah | 18:30 |
| kanzure | did you listen to Joseph's talk over the radio? | 18:30 |
| fenn | no | 18:30 |
| gene | this is what the stock market did 〽 | 18:30 |
| fenn | i meant to remind you to dump the stream to disk but i forgot | 18:30 |
| fenn | i think i've heard just about everything there is to hear about "post-scarcity" anyway | 18:31 |
| kanzure | it's true, nothing new was really said | 18:31 |
| kanzure | though this was more for me to see where Joseph was in all of this, | 18:31 |
| kanzure | whether or not he understands etc. and it seems like he does | 18:31 |
| gene | ❶ | 18:32 |
| gene | ❷ | 18:32 |
| gene | ☣ | 18:33 |
| fenn | one way to do robotic assembly without machine vision or feeders is to line up your parts in boxes | 18:33 |
| kanzure3_ | http://www.blogtalkradio.com/fastforwardradio there was a download link for the mp3 but now the page sucks because the site sucks. | 18:33 |
| fenn | gene there are like 30,000 unicode symbols.. | 18:33 |
| gene | you can also use laser scanners | 18:33 |
| gene | I know | 18:33 |
| gene | I am surprised they would even have ☣ in there | 18:34 |
| fenn | that looks like crap in xterm | 18:34 |
| gene | or for that matter this ✈▌▌ | 18:34 |
| kanzure3_ | http://groups.google.com/group/postscarcity/msg/68d88131cf38aa7b | 18:34 |
| kanzure3_ | okay, that's it | 18:34 |
| kanzure3_ | "Look inside yourself for the answer" | 18:34 |
| kanzure3_ | fuck him. | 18:34 |
| gene | is it time to b& him? | 18:35 |
| gene | behold the time cube: ⬔ | 18:36 |
| fenn | all i see is a box | 18:36 |
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| kanzure | gene, you going to the robot group meeting tonight? | 19:02 |
| kanzure | I'm trying to get Max More, Natasha, and Amil (or however you spell his name) to go | 19:02 |
| kanzure | hitching a ride with Derek Bridges in his tiny little two-seater truck | 19:03 |
| nsh | are you going to try and pass yourselves off as very realistic cyborgs? | 19:06 |
| nsh | *androids even | 19:06 |
| kanzure | I seem to have already fooled you foolish mortals | 19:06 |
| nsh | i had my suspicions :-) | 19:07 |
| gene | why we do this: | 19:20 |
| gene | http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=613 | 19:20 |
| wrldpc | wtf does fawzi do besides philosophize? | 19:24 |
| wrldpc | nvm | 19:24 |
| gene | when's the robot group meeting? | 20:03 |
| gene | if you say today, no | 20:04 |
| nsh | tonight | 20:05 |
| nsh | he said | 20:05 |
| gene | damn | 20:06 |
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| kanzure | Well that was interesting. | 23:29 |
| kanzure | I went to the robot group meeting | 23:29 |
| kanzure | and spontaneously encountered David Treadwell | 23:29 |
| kanzure | quite interesting in person | 23:29 |
| kanzure | I'd put him in the same room with Steve.. | 23:30 |
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