| --- Day changed Fri Mar 20 2009 | ||
| kanzure | (12:01:38 AM) Amy Sun: nah, we had some lawyers craft a "ok for personal and experimental use" generic thing | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| gene | you know I don't even know if afghanistan has IP laws yet | 00:02 |
| kanzure | I don't think you understand how backwards that is | 00:03 |
| gene | hmmmm... I wonder if micronesia has IP laws | 00:06 |
| fenn | what is wrong with standard licenses? why did they make their own license? | 00:06 |
| kanzure | (12:02:24 AM) Amy Sun: as far as i'm told by the smari's of the world, nothing comprehensive exists | 00:07 |
| kanzure | (12:05:27 AM) Amy Sun: no one i've ever met - that's academic, industry, defense, or hacker community - bats an eyelash to ask if they are allowed to use something | 00:07 |
| kanzure | (12:06:35 AM) Amy Sun: it's like having a rigid schedule to follow at burning man | 00:07 |
| fenn | it matters if i'm going to share designs based on your work | 00:08 |
| fenn | copyright applies to publishing/distribution, not use | 00:09 |
| kanzure | (12:10:12 AM) Amy Sun: you either keep a idea completely secret 'cause you're a dumbass and think that no one else could have that idea, or you get over it and start engaging with others | 00:10 |
| kanzure | blah | 00:10 |
| kanzure | she doesn't get it. | 00:10 |
| fenn | it's about enabling people to take your idea and extend it | 00:11 |
| fenn | if you have a custom license that restricts people's use to personal and experimental use only, you'll only get mediocre involvement from hobbyists (if that) | 00:11 |
| fenn | it's really not even about ideas, it's infrastructure | 00:12 |
| fenn | i can say "parametric associative solid modeler" but it doesn't mean I have one running in another window | 00:12 |
| kanzure | :11 < fenn> it's about enabling people to take your idea and extend it | 00:12 |
| kanzure | 00:11 < fenn> it's about enabling people to take your idea and extend it | 00:12 |
| kanzure | (12:12:43 AM) Amy Sun: that'd be great if more than 3 people could agree on which license | 00:12 |
| kanzure | blah | 00:12 |
| fenn | any license | 00:13 |
| kanzure | I told her that | 00:13 |
| fenn | sorry to turn you into a transponder :\ | 00:13 |
| kanzure | (12:13:27 AM) Amy Sun: which license, bryan | 00:13 |
| kanzure | what if I say GPL? | 00:13 |
| gene | hey what chat app are you using kanzure? | 00:13 |
| kanzure | go away | 00:13 |
| kanzure | pidgin | 00:13 |
| fenn | i think GPL is fine for fab lab's mission | 00:14 |
| fenn | i dont understand MIT's insistence on non-commercial-use licenses for everything | 00:14 |
| kanzure | (12:14:53 AM) Amy Sun: not all people, and it turns out there are open * people that are vehemently against some part of the GPL | 00:15 |
| kanzure | (12:15:08 AM) Amy Sun: I can't tell you what, i just know they flooded my inbox and have all kinds of chats with each other about it | 00:15 |
| fenn | you can't please all of the people all of the time | 00:15 |
| kanzure | right | 00:15 |
| kanzure | (12:15:35 AM) Amy Sun: no, i'm letting any maker chose their own thing | 00:15 |
| kanzure | (12:15:48 AM) Amy Sun: that's what's in our charter, if you come in a lab we don't inflict anything on you | 00:15 |
| kanzure | (12:16:04 AM) Amy Sun: if we fund your project, we give up the right to inflict anything on you | 00:16 |
| fenn | ok whatever, i'm talking about hired programmers that are writing fablab software | 00:16 |
| fenn | is that different? | 00:16 |
| fenn | stuff like cad.py | 00:17 |
| fenn | or fablib | 00:17 |
| kanzure | (12:17:32 AM) Amy Sun: we don't have anything that we're releasing that's code only | 00:17 |
| kanzure | (12:17:40 AM) Amy Sun: we = larger fab projects | 00:17 |
| kanzure | (12:18:03 AM) Amy Sun: everything i know of, like cad.py or whatever, has been licensed however the author(s) wanted | 00:18 |
| fenn | i want to force (yes force) anyone who creates a derivative of my mechanical designs to publish their code and/or cad files, but it's not possible in the current US legal system AFAIK | 00:21 |
| fenn | i don't see why a circuit board should qualify but a laser cut piece of acrylic does not | 00:22 |
| fenn | I want standard licenses for hardware designs just like in software | 00:23 |
| fenn | hmm i worded that wrong , i dont care if someone makes things for personal use without redistributing their code, it's when they are redistributing the physical objects themselves that they have to redistribute the code | 00:23 |
| kanzure | fenn, why do they have to care about licenses? | 00:23 |
| kanzure | I mean, ultimately? | 00:24 |
| fenn | they == MIT and friends? | 00:24 |
| kanzure | why does anyone with a fablab have to care about licenses | 00:24 |
| fenn | because it lets you know what you are allowed to do | 00:24 |
| kanzure | what if they just do it | 00:24 |
| kanzure | and then they build a super laser and kill you if you speak up | 00:24 |
| fenn | then you are at risk for getting sued and have no defense | 00:25 |
| kanzure | sued? they'll just build a machine gun and kill your lawyers | 00:25 |
| fenn | try building a machine gun, i dare you | 00:25 |
| kanzure | well, suppose the design files are out there :) | 00:25 |
| fenn | they are, i almost bought the book | 00:25 |
| gene | I believe there is an open source machine gun | 00:25 |
| gene | no it's no the Ak47 | 00:25 |
| fenn | its a smooth bore SMG | 00:25 |
| fenn | fires 22 caliber i believe | 00:26 |
| gene | hmm... why no use a motor to spin the bullet up | 00:26 |
| fenn | anyway, guns are not much use against tanks and cruise missiles | 00:26 |
| fenn | and we dont really want to get into a war over copyrights do we? | 00:27 |
| fenn | i mean really | 00:27 |
| gene | yeah but you could make a [REDACTED] | 00:27 |
| kanzure | well supposedly the only people that would be involved would be those that are really into this 'just give it away' stuff | 00:27 |
| fenn | you dont get any advantage from copyright-free society until you have a whole heck of a lot of people participating | 00:27 |
| fenn | kanzure: not everyone in a fablab will "just give everything away" as we've seen from amy's "non commercial use" license | 00:29 |
| kanzure | (12:30:12 AM) Amy Sun: i'm looking for hundreds of thousands of $ to send people off to do fabulous things in various ways, running a lab in a freaking war zone, and doing a phd... licensing stuff is really really low on my list of thing I care about | 00:30 |
| fenn | fair enough | 00:30 |
| gene | start development on laser force fields | 00:31 |
| gene | or AB domes | 00:31 |
| kanzure | (12:31:34 AM) Amy Sun: spekaing of which, we're funding undergrad proposals to have the mobile lab go to places in the lower 48 and do stuff | 00:31 |
| gene | domes for protection against missiles | 00:31 |
| gene | real easy and cheap to make | 00:32 |
| kanzure | (12:32:19 AM) Amy Sun: technically you'll have to find an mit undergrad collaborator 'cause most of tmoney will have "mit ugrad involvemnt" strings | 00:32 |
| gene | wait, Amy's from Mit? | 00:33 |
| kanzure | yes | 00:33 |
| kanzure | all fablab people are | 00:33 |
| kanzure | heh: "come down here to austin so that we can rip off your epilog laser cutter" | 00:34 |
| kanzure | (12:34:17 AM) Amy Sun: oops did i fail to mention that we'll put priority on proposals that involve some audience/community and basically make it necessary for the lab to go to them instead of you to the lab | 00:34 |
| fenn | i dont think mobile fablab can really help us, beyond showing how things should be done | 00:35 |
| fenn | limited time access to tools.. i can buy that locally from a job shop | 00:35 |
| fenn | i would have a backlog of jobs for a laser cutter but I DONT HAVE THE SOFTWARE | 00:36 |
| fenn | specifically a timing pulley outline script | 00:37 |
| kanzure | http://scripts.mit.edu/~emu/fab/?p=1152 | 00:37 |
| kanzure | http://scripts.mit.edu/~emu/fab/?p=1198 | 00:38 |
| fenn | now that is cool | 00:39 |
| fenn | progress towards a self replicating fab (well, replicating from cheap commodities at least) | 00:39 |
| gene | fabs that can build fabs that can build fabs | 00:40 |
| gene | sweet | 00:40 |
| fenn | i made some chip programmers for the robotics club and they were the single most useful project there | 00:40 |
| kanzure | they didn't have burners/flashers? | 00:40 |
| fenn | i guess that says more about how sucky the club was than anything :P | 00:41 |
| fenn | the commercial burners didnt work right | 00:41 |
| fenn | there were several models to choose from too | 00:41 |
| kanzure | (12:41:21 AM) Amy Sun: feel free to come to me with mostly-fully-baked ideas | 00:41 |
| kanzure | (12:41:39 AM) Amy Sun: if we can't help directly, we mightbe able to point you to grant sources | 00:41 |
| gene | chip burners? | 00:42 |
| gene | burn wires into the chips? | 00:42 |
| kanzure | no, microcontroller programmers | 00:42 |
| kanzure | you have to send the program to it | 00:42 |
| gene | it makes the program permanent correct? | 00:42 |
| kanzure | "permanent" | 00:42 |
| fenn | plz add http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/ to the DIY electronics bench | 00:43 |
| gene | runs faster that way I hear | 00:43 |
| fenn | gene you're thinking ASIC vs FPGA which is a totally different issue | 00:46 |
| fenn | microcontrollers that use flash for program instructions are rate limited by the time to load data from the flash memory (compared to an equivalent ram-based processor) | 00:47 |
| gene | ok | 00:47 |
| gene | corrected | 00:47 |
| fenn | what does she mean 'come to me with ideas'? | 00:48 |
| gene | build an AB dome! | 00:49 |
| gene | let me pull the paper from arxiv | 00:50 |
| fenn | the electron gas thing? | 00:50 |
| gene | no, but by the same guy | 00:51 |
| gene | http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0802/0802.1871.pdf | 00:51 |
| fenn | oh yes i remember this | 00:52 |
| fenn | ball bearings right | 00:52 |
| gene | this might work better for protecting the fab lab | 00:52 |
| gene | http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0802/0802.0315.pdf | 00:52 |
| gene | this would work better for protecting the city around the fablab | 00:53 |
| fenn | different paper, same idea | 00:53 |
| fenn | i was reading something about defense from nuclear ICBM's | 00:53 |
| gene | very different idea | 00:53 |
| fenn | using an inflatable dome with ball bearings attached | 00:54 |
| gene | same idea as last paper | 00:54 |
| gene | well on the the first paper you've got weird net things | 00:54 |
| gene | not inflatable | 00:54 |
| gene | or is it? | 00:54 |
| fenn | he doesnt say anything about nuclear weapons though | 00:54 |
| gene | same basic principle | 00:55 |
| gene | I love to see one of these IRL | 00:55 |
| fenn | 1) get some tefzel film | 00:56 |
| fenn | 2) inflate | 00:56 |
| fenn | did i miss anything? | 00:56 |
| gene | I don't think so | 00:57 |
| gene | that's the basic Idea | 00:57 |
| gene | or something like that | 00:58 |
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| fenn | huh? fablab.af projects is password protected? | 01:00 |
| fenn | http://scripts.mit.edu/~emu/fab/?page_id=868 | 01:01 |
| fenn | heh "undo send" for gmail | 01:05 |
| fenn | now THAT's innovation! | 01:05 |
| fenn | now we just need an undo for CNC | 01:06 |
| fenn | and trailer parks | 01:07 |
| gene | undo CNC is what some reprap people are trying to do | 01:09 |
| fenn | sweet, the new pythonocc script caches swig operations | 01:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: I sent an email about how to implement that to the mailing list | 01:16 |
| kanzure | so yeah. | 01:16 |
| gene | hmmmm... it's early in afghanistan | 01:17 |
| fenn | now the build is dying on g++ BRepBlend_wrap.cc and i cant seem to get an error message out of g++ | 01:23 |
| fenn | it just dies silently | 01:23 |
| fenn | oh heh, no space left on device | 01:24 |
| fenn | i guess i should buy a hard drive now that i have some money | 01:25 |
| fenn | oh sure now it gives me the error | 01:27 |
| kanzure | heh. I've found a good use for all of those finger prints on scotch tape. | 01:37 |
| kanzure | I wonder how wide these lines are. | 01:37 |
| fenn | now you just need to genetically engineer fluidic fingerprints | 01:38 |
| fenn | ...or something | 01:38 |
| kanzure | I'm not sure if CD patterning works. | 01:41 |
| kanzure | I mean, with the 0.2 micron microchannels | 01:42 |
| kanzure | guess I'll have to bring in this piece of tape+sharpie+CD thingy to the lab's scope | 01:42 |
| kanzure | http://hackaday.com/2005/05/01/making-new-fingerprints/ | 01:49 |
| kanzure | oh, an original | 01:50 |
| kanzure | "The goal is to get an exact image of the fingerprint, for further use as mold, out of which the dummy is made. The easiest way is to print the image on a transparency slide (the ones normally used for an overhead projector) with a laser printer. The toner forms a relief, which is later used similar to letter press printing. Wood glue is suitable for producing the dummy (Figure 7)" | 01:50 |
| kanzure | http://www.ccc.de/biometrie/fingerabdruck_kopieren.xml?language=en | 01:50 |
| kanzure | so you're printing it out anyway | 01:52 |
| gene | oh saw that | 01:55 |
| gene | thinking of making me some ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US PRINTS just for the lulz | 01:55 |
| gene | 0.2 micron eh? | 02:00 |
| gene | hmmm.... I'd like to see how small one could make a fluidic amplifier with channels that size.... | 02:01 |
| gene | 0.2 micron is about the size of old transistors on an old IC | 02:01 |
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| kanzure | "the google founder's wife started 23andme, Esther is the venture capitalist who invested in them + she is behind space commercialization efforts/some of Diamandis projects" | 09:16 |
| kanzure | fuuuck | 09:17 |
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| bkero | Yea | 11:37 |
| bkero | You didn't know that? | 11:37 |
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| kanzure_ | Hello world. | 16:12 |
| kanzure_ | Geir Helleloid suggests looking into 'convergence accelerators' but otherwise keeps away from partial differential equations. | 16:12 |
| gene | hey kanzure figure out what this means: | 16:14 |
| gene | http://www.whatsinthebox.nl/anti.jpg | 16:14 |
| gene | part of an ARG | 16:14 |
| kanzure_ | gah, a triple integral? | 16:15 |
| kanzure_ | do I have to? | 16:15 |
| gene | is it really a triple integral? | 16:15 |
| gene | from -n to n? | 16:15 |
| gene | or is it technobabble? | 16:15 |
| kanzure_ | yes, there is such thing as a triple integral if that's what you ask | 16:15 |
| gene | the ABS things and -n to n freaked me out though | 16:16 |
| gene | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU_reTt7Hj4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgadgets.boingboing.net%2F2009%2F03%2F20%2Fshort-film-whats-in.html&feature=player_embedded | 16:16 |
| gene | related to this | 16:16 |
| gene | www.whatsinthebox.nl | 16:17 |
| gene | all links are somehow related | 16:19 |
| gene | it could be an ARG | 16:20 |
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| fenn | interesting way to make a TV display http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipkow_disk | 17:07 |
| fenn | perhaps a good use for photochemical milling? | 17:07 |
| gene_ | hmmmmm.... | 17:08 |
| gene_ | make a nipkow disk with a nipkow disk? | 17:08 |
| fenn | not enough resolution | 17:12 |
| bkero | http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/opencog | 18:04 |
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| kanzure_ | Any help on gnome themes? I'm trying to get the taskbar to work like it does on my KDE installations, but the font isn't easily configurable via gconftools-2 or the other obvious configuration panels. | 18:45 |
| kanzure_ | heh. watching some television. one of the commercials was for a vehicle, and they were demonstrating musical notes being played by traveling down a road with bumps at specific intervals | 19:23 |
| kanzure_ | I guess that says more about their crappy suspension than anything else? | 19:23 |
| gene_ | hahahahaha | 19:29 |
| gene_ | THEIR MIND CONTROL BEAMS CLEAR DO NOT WORK ON US, AS WE STILL RETAIN LOGIC WHILST WATCHING TV | 19:30 |
| kanzure_ | but still, that does sound like a fun hack to do. i.e., making different sounds based off of gratings but tuned to different types of tires or crappy cars? | 19:34 |
| kanzure_ | "warning: your car sucks" | 19:34 |
| bkero | Until the car rattles apart | 19:41 |
| fenn | i wish les' cat had a RFID tag | 19:50 |
| fenn | there was a strip of highway in new mexico (?) that played a song as you drove on it, but eventually the neighbors went crazy and got it removed | 19:51 |
| kanzure_ | how hard is potassium hydroxide (KOH) to obtain? | 19:53 |
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| kanzure_ | huh, nevermind | 19:56 |
| kanzure_ | I'm reading a paper on carbon nanotube actuators | 19:56 |
| kanzure_ | in electrolyte solutions. one of the solutions that they worked with was just salt. | 19:57 |
| kanzure_ | and then a sheet (3 mm x 20 mm x 20 to 50 microns thick) of carbon nanotube paper (obtained via vacuum filtration of an item bought from some random CNT provider company) | 19:57 |
| kanzure_ | they apparently worked with some scotch tape on that step | 19:58 |
| kanzure_ | anywho, when you run a dc potential of about ~1 volt, "a deflection of about a centimeter was observed" | 19:58 |
| gene_ | potassium hydroxide | 19:59 |
| gene_ | hmmm... | 19:59 |
| gene_ | it's easy to obtain in nature, but IRL there are some issues | 19:59 |
| kanzure_ | "when a square wave potential was applied, oscillation was visually observed up to at least 15 Hz as the actuator pushed the electrolyte back and forth" | 19:59 |
| kanzure_ | it's ok, salt will do fine | 19:59 |
| kanzure_ | screw the KOH | 19:59 |
| gene_ | 15 HZ wow! | 19:59 |
| kanzure_ | "up to at least" :) | 20:00 |
| kanzure_ | how is that "up to" | 20:00 |
| kanzure_ | if they mean to say "at least" | 20:00 |
| kanzure_ | hrm | 20:00 |
| kanzure_ | that's with graphite nanotubes, btw. which sounds promising to me, except that most nanotube synthesis formulas that I remember reading are hideously complex in the sense that they require gas chambers and gas chambers tend to explode if you're an idiot | 20:01 |
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| kanzure_ | Jonah Lehrer, "The Brain, Revealed: With Custom Built Robots and Assembly-Line | 20:17 |
| kanzure_ | Efficiency, Scientists at the Allen Brain Institute Are Creating an Atlas of the Human Mind, | 20:17 |
| kanzure_ | Mapping Every Gene and Neuron in Our Most Complex Organ," Wired Magazine, | 20:17 |
| kanzure_ | Vol. 11, No. 4, pp. 88-95,118 (April 2009). | 20:17 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Giant-Stroke,%20Superelastic%20Carbon%20Nanotube%20Aerogel%20Muscles%20-%202009%20-%20Baughman.pdf | 20:18 |
| kanzure_ | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Carbon%20Nanotube%20Actuators%20-%201999.pdf | 20:18 |
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| kanzure_ | someone with too much money: "rapid prototyping of 3D structures from multiwalled carbon nanotube forests by selective laser sintering" | 20:51 |
| fenn | why is that too much money? sounds like a good idea to me | 20:56 |
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| kanzure_ | I guess I'm just seeing a lot of buzzword papers | 21:00 |
| kanzure_ | people like to jump on the CNT bandwagon | 21:00 |
| fenn | CNT's are pretty amazing | 21:00 |
| kanzure_ | back in 2007 I knew more about CNTs than I do now | 21:01 |
| kanzure_ | do you remember the list of different manufacturing processes? | 21:01 |
| fenn | i wouldnt call what they did "rapid prototyping" or "selective laser sintering" | 21:01 |
| kanzure_ | all I'm seeing now is chemical vapor deposition processes, but I'm sure there's more | 21:01 |
| fenn | there used to be some soot-purification methods but i guess they're too expensive and yield the same result | 21:02 |
| fenn | lots of ways to make soot | 21:02 |
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| kanzure_ | oh, there was one way that I remember reading about using STMs to manufacture single CNTs between the tip and the surface | 21:08 |
| kanzure_ | but that was for making a single nanotube at a time. | 21:08 |
| kanzure_ | I guess if you have an array of tips and you run a current through all of them at once you can do it in parallel | 21:08 |
| kanzure_ | but you'd really have to have a lot of tips :/ | 21:08 |
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| kanzure_ | there was another recent paper that I read where someone (probably Kuhp) assembled nanopillars by a monolayer array of somewhat larger nanospheres | 21:09 |
| kanzure_ | so in between the nanospheres were the areas that the pillars would emerge or be layered (etc.) | 21:09 |
| kanzure_ | however, I don't think this is all electrically active since you'd need a separate way of addressing all of them to turn them into a giant parallel STM tip surface thingy for the CNT synthesis method | 21:10 |
| fenn | what if you had a nanotube forest instead of one tip | 21:18 |
| fenn | or does the tip have to be a certain material? | 21:19 |
| fenn | February 8, 2005 - Lamina Ceramics today announced it has developed an ultra-high lumen LED white light engine 14 times brighter than any previously demonstrated white light LED array. The 28,000 lumen solid-state device is 5 inches square and is powered by 1,400 watts. | 21:24 |
| fenn | must be water cooled | 21:24 |
| gene_ | what's a light engine? | 22:04 |
| gene_ | heck if they make LED arrays that bright I want em in something that can pump a laser | 22:04 |
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| fenn | just use a diode laser | 22:12 |
| gene_ | diode laser? | 22:14 |
| fenn | that's right | 22:15 |
| gene_ | well you see lockheed martin made a super high power laser using a LED array pumped block of YAG | 22:16 |
| fenn | sweet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Laser_diode_array.jpg | 22:18 |
| gene_ | that's not it | 22:18 |
| fenn | i don't care | 22:19 |
| fenn | YAG is YAG | 22:19 |
| fenn | it's either arc pumped or diode pumped | 22:19 |
| fenn | they use HID lamps right? | 22:20 |
| fenn | for some reason you need RF current | 22:20 |
| gene_ | huh? | 22:20 |
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| fenn | i will ask next time i talk to the laser guy | 22:22 |
| fenn | RF Excited Krypton Arc Lamps for Pumping Nd: YAG Lasers | 22:23 |
| fenn | the answers are within your reach | 22:23 |
| gene_ | flashlamp | 22:23 |
| fenn | ah here we go | 22:24 |
| fenn | The baseline assumption is that an electrodeless lamp should exhibit substantially improved lifetime and reliability over a dc arc lamp | 22:24 |
| fenn | Radio frequency energy is coupled into the annular lamp from an induction coil | 22:24 |
| gene_ | cool | 22:25 |
| fenn | that was from 1974 | 22:25 |
| fenn | so it would make sense that an old laser cutter would use that technology | 22:25 |
| gene_ | heh ruby lasers are cool | 22:26 |
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| kanzure_ | whee, I like how I get no support from ##gnome | 22:54 |
| kanzure_ | (it's probably not the official channel, but still) | 22:54 |
| fenn | irc is useless for anything moderately popular | 22:55 |
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| kanzure_ | it's just very idle tonight | 23:22 |
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| fenn | i'm feeling the same way | 23:29 |
| fenn | dammit why don't i have a fab lab yet | 23:29 |
| gene_ | hmmm... I wonder if I could get away with electroetching in my dorm room.... | 23:32 |
| gene_ | kanzure could you find out if sharpie ink is nonconductive? | 23:32 |
| kanzure_ | drat, I don't have my ohm meter with me | 23:41 |
| gene_ | I need to find mine so I can carry it around in my back pack | 23:41 |
| kanzure_ | hm. carbon arc plasma via sucrose + 30 volts + 20 amps over a 0.5 mm gap between two copper electrodes. | 23:41 |
| kanzure_ | (to produce CNTs) | 23:41 |
| kanzure_ | (acqueous sucrose) | 23:42 |
| gene_ | efficiency? | 23:42 |
| kanzure_ | 20% purity yielding 7 mg/min when the medium is salt instead of sucrose | 23:43 |
| kanzure_ | that doesn't really say much on efficiency though | 23:43 |
| kanzure_ | what is your measure/definition of efficiency in this situation? | 23:43 |
| gene_ | sweet | 23:43 |
| gene_ | mass in vs mass nanotubes out | 23:43 |
| gene_ | IE how much crap isn't nanotubes | 23:43 |
| kanzure_ | fenn: I'm still surprised that the osh bank stuff got into wired | 23:43 |
| kanzure_ | the urge to just bullshit my way on to wired.com is very strong | 23:44 |
| kanzure_ | but it's kind of pointless without having substantial that actaully works | 23:44 |
| kanzure_ | *actually | 23:44 |
| kanzure_ | gene_: a lot of the crap isn't going to be nanotubes. | 23:44 |
| kanzure_ | they sometimes call these things "carbon onions" | 23:44 |
| gene_ | is 20% of the stuff that's with the nanotubes nanotubes? | 23:44 |
| fenn | 20% isnt that good | 23:45 |
| kanzure_ | "we found that a 90 degree angle between the two electrodes produces the highest yield" | 23:45 |
| fenn | really, that's weird | 23:45 |
| gene_ | very odd | 23:45 |
| kanzure_ | "The highest yield and the best quality were obtained when a mixture of ferrocene–nickelocene was used as catalyst and xylene as carbon source." | 23:45 |
| fenn | maybe there's some kind of vortex that's created | 23:46 |
| fenn | like a z-pinch electrode | 23:46 |
| kanzure_ | plasma vortex dynamics! | 23:46 |
| kanzure_ | quick, write a draft and submit it to arxiv! | 23:46 |
| fenn | maybe we'll make it to wired | 23:46 |
| gene_ | plasma vortex amplifier? | 23:46 |
| gene_ | osh bank? | 23:46 |
| kanzure_ | I wouldn't bother asking about the osh bank | 23:46 |
| fenn | nickelocene sounds dangerous | 23:46 |
| kanzure_ | why, because of the -cene ? | 23:46 |
| gene_ | it is | 23:46 |
| fenn | dunno, reminds me of nickel carbonyl | 23:47 |
| gene_ | You know many organic chemists tend to die of horrible nasty cancers | 23:48 |
| gene_ | I think they are one and the same fenn | 23:48 |
| kanzure_ | another way that they do the arc-discharge-in-water method for CNT synthesis is by using two graphite electrodes | 23:48 |
| kanzure_ | so the carbon is supplied by the graphite electrodes | 23:48 |
| kanzure_ | it's too bad that I'm not as hip on my electronics as I should be | 23:48 |
| kanzure_ | how am I going to come up with 30 volts and 20 amps in a circuit? | 23:48 |
| gene_ | oops they aren't fenn my bad | 23:49 |
| gene_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickelocene | 23:49 |
| gene_ | cool molecule | 23:49 |
| fenn | well at least it doesn't have carbon monoxide groups stuck to it | 23:50 |
| kanzure_ | "Carbon onions with hydrophilic characteristics were synthesized through irradiating carbon black suspension using millisecond pulsed laser at room temperature. Laser energy absorption resulted in the structure transformation of carbon black and the formation of hydrophilic groups on the surface of carbon onion. Carbon onions with hollow cores and the incomplete graphitic shells were produced from the starting materials under high | 23:51 |
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| fenn | “I may look like a scientist but I’m actually also a ninja” | 23:59 |
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