| --- Day changed Thu Mar 26 2009 | ||
| wrldpc | yes | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| gene | cool, who is he? | 00:04 |
| wrldpc | he runs geekdad.com | 00:20 |
| wrldpc | s/he runs/he sometimes contributes to | 00:21 |
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| fenn | graph/object visualization: http://nodebox.net/code/index.php/Graph | 01:25 |
| fenn | made for mac >:\ | 01:27 |
| fenn | "Lots of people tend to think that God, and science, are very, very big. But not as big as Harry Potter." | 01:30 |
| fenn | oo a web interface http://nodebox.net/perception/ | 01:31 |
| fenn | these guys are tearing graphsynth a new asshole | 01:31 |
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| fenn | i wonder what the dataset is - wordnet? | 01:38 |
| fenn | "In the case of our example graph, life is more important than anything. Other important things (the darker nodes) are money, security, health, fitness, love, experience and attitude." | 01:43 |
| fenn | apparently they pulled that analysis out of a bunch of natural language text | 01:43 |
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| fenn | well that was certainly quick and easy to get going: http://imagebin.org/42947 | 02:28 |
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| fenn | kurzweil eat your heart out: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=95491 that's a virtual companion if i ever saw one | 02:57 |
| fenn | "This is my first post on Blender Artists" geeez | 03:04 |
| fenn | i'm always amazed when these things actually work http://imagebin.org/42966 | 03:53 |
| fenn | so far for an "os x only" application it's been quite easy | 03:54 |
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| fenn | Maid San is seriously fun to play around with | 05:00 |
| fenn | I've never seen such a well rigged model | 05:00 |
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| fenn | http://imagebin.org/43075 i think i'm getting the hang of it | 06:05 |
| fenn | .. and then i click 'render' and it blows away all my changes | 06:06 |
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| fenn | and bouncing back to nodebox again i'll leave you with flower generators and people generators http://ludivinelechat.be/Latifolia.html http://ludivinelechat.be/Modular_body.html | 07:05 |
| kanzure | should I know who Maid San is? | 07:54 |
| kanzure | is she Hand Maid May? | 08:04 |
| kanzure | re: virtual companion. Joseph and I were talking about some software for that. He thinks it would be very profitable. | 08:29 |
| kanzure | and then some of my background in automatic story generation (rougelikes, etc.) might make that interesting (or not) | 08:29 |
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| kanzure | a study of how bryan wastes his time from year to year: http://heybryan.org/school/neurocomparison.html | 11:27 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/school/Biology/3-25-06,%20Protozoa%20Expedition%20Plan%20-%20real.html | 11:27 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/school/Biology/notes/03-27-07,%20Biology%20presentation%20notes.html | 11:27 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/school/Psychology/2008-03-24.html | 11:27 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/school/Psychology/2009-03-24.html | 11:27 |
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| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/How_bryan_wastes_his_time | 11:36 |
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| kanzure | http://replicatorinc.com/blog/abou/ | 11:58 |
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| kanzure | woah | 12:17 |
| kanzure | neat | 12:17 |
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| kanzure | what determines whether or not two parts will fit together? is it tension? | 14:00 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Modeling%20and%20Simulation%20of%20the%20Assembly%20of%20Snap%20Joints.pdf | 14:10 |
| kanzure | pg 2 has a great model of snap joints in terms of a stiffness matrix for insertion and removal | 14:11 |
| kanzure | heh, 'ComPlier' is a "pair of pliers" (not really a pair) using compliant joints (a q-joint), made from a single piece of metal | 14:18 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Effort%20Flow%20Analysis%20-%20Force%20Flow%20Analysis.pdf | 14:35 |
| kanzure | see page 103, figure 4.7. An odd way to go about doing this. I'm not sure if Greer is going to go into how to calculate whether or not two parts will become dislodged or their connection otherwise broken.. | 14:36 |
| kanzure | strain-displacement law, stress-strain law (Material Constitutive Relationship), equations of equilibrium (force or stress) | 14:39 |
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| kanzure | hah | 15:23 |
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| wrldpc_ | http://cgi.cse.unsw.edu.au/~wyos/skyrails/ | 15:49 |
| wrldpc_ | network vis | 15:50 |
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| willPow3r | pretty neat | 15:59 |
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| willPow3r | does it run on linux? | 16:06 |
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| kanzure | http://designexplorer.net/ | 16:37 |
| kanzure | http://www.axelkilian.com/newscreens/nmm/final/finaljoint/jointmatrix.html Final results from joint exploration and optimization in CATIA, OCTAVE, and EXCEL | 16:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.axelkilian.com/projectpages/prototyping.html | 16:40 |
| wrldpc_ | I think so, Will. | 17:10 |
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| kanzure | fenn: do you know about 'tab and slot'? | 17:16 |
| kanzure | something about 'friction fit' | 17:17 |
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| gene | heh you told fenn about the parts? | 17:23 |
| kanzure | no? | 17:24 |
| kanzure | wait, what? | 17:24 |
| gene | the things that don't fit | 17:30 |
| gene | got my laptop fixed | 17:31 |
| gene | it seems different... | 17:32 |
| gene | like a new implant | 17:32 |
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| gene | btw, how can I get me an MEA implant like captain cyborg? | 17:38 |
| kanzure | heh heh http://ddf.mit.edu/people/index.html I was right, Dan Smithwick (Physical Design Co.) is listed as 'people' at that lab | 17:42 |
| gene | ??? | 17:43 |
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| kanzure | http://www.universaljointdesign.com/wwwcms/welcome.php?menu=135&submenu=209&subsubmenu=313 | 17:52 |
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| gene_ | http://www.prometheus2.net/ | 18:00 |
| gene_ | a fusion reactor that might work | 18:00 |
| gene_ | http://www.prometheus2.net/ICC_2002_POSTER.pdf | 18:04 |
| gene_ | also works as a nice EMP gun unfortunately | 18:07 |
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| fenn | plasma cannon, not EMP gun | 18:44 |
| kanzure | fenn: friction joint? yes? no? | 18:48 |
| fenn | that's some lasercut acrylic crap no? | 18:49 |
| kanzure | I don't know | 18:49 |
| kanzure | I'm asking you :) | 18:49 |
| kanzure | all of this physicaldesignco stuff is apparently using friction joints | 18:49 |
| fenn | i have no idea what the context is | 18:49 |
| kanzure | but none of the papers I've read from the MIT site (super secretive about it) does mathematical modeling of friction joints | 18:49 |
| kanzure | eh, have you read my latest OM email? | 18:49 |
| fenn | no | 18:50 |
| kanzure | addendum to that email: the shape grammar for the wood designs- http://heybryan.org/books/papers/wood_shape_grammar-Sass.png | 18:50 |
| * fenn goes back to puttering around the house for a while | 18:50 | |
| kanzure | anyway, you upload a CAD file, | 18:50 |
| kanzure | they spit out a kit with instructions on how to build your thingy | 18:50 |
| kanzure | (particularly for architecture) | 18:50 |
| gene_ | fenn, it's a plasma cannon that is an EMP gun | 18:51 |
| gene_ | I don't believe it | 18:51 |
| gene_ | all the "gears" in my dynamics book don't have real gear profiles | 18:51 |
| kanzure | hah | 18:52 |
| kanzure | yeah, so the lab guys told me to make the gear visualizer just draw cylinders | 18:52 |
| kanzure | without teeth | 18:52 |
| kanzure | :-/ | 18:52 |
| gene_ | well it's a bit more truthful | 18:52 |
| kanzure | hah | 18:52 |
| gene_ | looks less cooler though | 18:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: it works with CNC cut materials too. | 18:53 |
| kanzure | gene_: do you know how to do discrete PDEs? | 18:53 |
| gene_ | if the picture show that they are cogs I could make an argument to my dynamics teacher that I can't answer the question because gear tooth is wrong | 18:54 |
| kanzure | I've only ever done continuous PDEs for surfaces and volumes | 18:54 |
| gene_ | uh I did why? | 18:54 |
| kanzure | do you know how? just the basic 'how' (not the whole thing) | 18:54 |
| gene_ | I might be able to | 18:54 |
| kanzure | I'm considering it from the perspective of figuring out some of the partial derivatives of a finite surface (from a CAD file- which is not defined by a continuous mathematical function..) | 18:55 |
| gene_ | I think I totally forgot what I learned in diff eq | 18:55 |
| gene_ | I forgot to make backups | 18:55 |
| kanzure | woah, | 19:02 |
| kanzure | http://diybio.org/2009/03/15/this-week-in-diybio-match-15-2009-edition/ | 19:02 |
| kanzure | forrest mims replied | 19:02 |
| gene_ | who's forrest mims? | 19:03 |
| kanzure | electronics demigod | 19:04 |
| kanzure | http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1151 "first name basis" heh | 19:04 |
| nsh | Forrest Mimms: intelligent-design advocate | 19:13 |
| nsh | (and part-time non-retard) | 19:13 |
| nsh | writing for his journal may lead to high irony-factor publications | 19:14 |
| nsh | *mims | 19:15 |
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| kanzure | fenn: thanks. | 21:09 |
| kanzure | your email didn't wrap. | 21:10 |
| fenn | didn't wrap? | 21:12 |
| kanzure | usually you use a 72 to 80 char line width | 21:13 |
| kanzure | your client does, at least | 21:13 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_fit <- is useful. thanks for the reference too. | 21:13 |
| kanzure | is 'amount of interference (distance)' == 'allowance' ? | 21:14 |
| fenn | looks wrapped to me http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/d563adc00341b0f7 | 21:14 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 21:14 |
| gene | what distance is it kanzure | 21:16 |
| gene | could we do it with the parts? | 21:16 |
| fenn | btw (reference from that wikipedia article) this is a pretty awesome resource http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~jackh/eod/manufact/ | 21:16 |
| fenn | "engineer on a disk" | 21:16 |
| fenn | if you are trying to do press fit with acrylic, i'd advise against it | 21:17 |
| fenn | acrylic likes to crack unless everything is perfect | 21:18 |
| kanzure | where'd you get the idea of someone trying to do press fit with acrylic? | 21:18 |
| fenn | you had some acrylic thing machined a week ago | 21:18 |
| fenn | also, the MIT fablab people love to make press-fit tabs on their craft crap | 21:18 |
| fenn | like the oomlout wire stripper | 21:19 |
| kanzure | the physicaldesignco guy (Dan Smithwick) is doing human-inhabitable architecture with press-fit tabs-and-slot connections. | 21:20 |
| kanzure | I'm not seeing any clue as to whether or not they know their max load and so on | 21:20 |
| kanzure | in one of their papers, their demo for a graph grammar technique was a string that assembled into the following sentence: "THE ARCHITECTS SUED THE ENGINEERS" | 21:21 |
| kanzure | I don't think they have much respect for engineers :) | 21:21 |
| fenn | their loss | 21:23 |
| fenn | there's more to a house than a plywood wall anyway | 21:24 |
| kanzure | http://ddf.mit.edu/projects/CABIN/index.html | 21:24 |
| kanzure | that's their "instant cabin" project | 21:24 |
| * kanzure watches http://ddf.mit.edu/projects/CABIN/images/DDFG_House_Computer_Model.wmv | 21:25 | |
| * kanzure watches http://ddf.mit.edu/projects/CABIN/images/DDFG_House_Construction.wmv | 21:28 | |
| fenn | looks like a huge pain in the ass to me | 21:31 |
| kanzure | go figure: http://mit.edu/yourhouse/press1.html it cites physicaldesignco. yep. yay for people being in bed together. | 21:31 |
| fenn | of course they are the same people | 21:31 |
| fenn | what did you expect? | 21:32 |
| kanzure | little gnomes assembling houses for me? | 21:32 |
| fenn | er, yah, of course.. | 21:32 |
| kanzure | but really, what's so bad about it being a pain in the ass? | 21:32 |
| kanzure | you get instructions tailored to the specific design | 21:32 |
| fenn | WTF | 21:32 |
| kanzure | even conceivably "Maid May" walk through videos | 21:32 |
| fenn | avoiding work is THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT | 21:33 |
| kanzure | isn't this much less work though? | 21:33 |
| kanzure | I've never built a house | 21:33 |
| kanzure | it's the "kit" idea. | 21:34 |
| fenn | if you have a CAD design, the appropriate materials (pre-cut) and tools, it can go together just as fast | 21:34 |
| fenn | they're comparing a kit car to a horse drawn carriage | 21:34 |
| kanzure | yes, but we don't have a way to automatically generate instructions for random assembly files | 21:34 |
| fenn | when they should be competing against like, a ford taurus or something | 21:34 |
| kanzure | I think the model here would be to have a bin of legos that you select from to build something that you print out the instructions for | 21:36 |
| kanzure | except instead of legos it's pre-cut materials that fit together in some standardized way | 21:37 |
| gene | synsects might be better than gnomes | 21:39 |
| kanzure | although falling into the 'standard interconnect' trap of doom is probably a bad idea | 21:39 |
| kanzure | the algorithm largely works only on single structures, just rigid bodies, so it wouldn't make sense to suddenly change construction type half-way through (would it?) | 21:40 |
| gene | hmm... standard interconnect | 21:43 |
| kanzure | .. would be awesome if it worked for support structures/frameworks for other tools. that would be more appropriate. | 21:43 |
| gene | automatic construction+ automatic resource requsition+ automatic design= ever expanding house that eats up continents | 21:43 |
| kanzure | hm, a tensegrity graph grammar | 21:48 |
| gene | speaking of tensegrity I want a fullair | 21:50 |
| fenn | one thing annoys me about these generative grammar people is they totally ignore the concept of min-a-max | 21:52 |
| kanzure | http://radio.weblogs.com/0119080/stories/2003/02/04/galleryMinamaxAndOtherSpac.html | 21:53 |
| kanzure | "documenting a personal quest for non-toxic housing" | 21:53 |
| kanzure | eric? | 21:53 |
| fenn | yeah that's how i found it, he rants about it all the time | 21:53 |
| fenn | the info isn't online, still need to OCR those scans | 21:53 |
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| fenn | min-a-max = legos for construction + triangulation | 21:54 |
| fenn | somehow they forgot to tell the architects that a cube isn't a stable structure | 21:55 |
| kanzure | is this how you were thinking of moving large machining tools away from using mass as a mechanism of stabilization? | 21:55 |
| kanzure | I've not seen min-a-max, or tensegrity, or other weird architecture building thingies have as easy-to-use systems as "snap to fit stuff into place" | 21:56 |
| kanzure | but I also have not been looking | 21:56 |
| kanzure | (but I should start) | 21:56 |
| fenn | eh, good luck | 22:01 |
| fenn | the world is broken, as you may already know | 22:01 |
| fenn | min-a-max would be useful for various machinery, yes | 22:01 |
| fenn | machine tools in particular though i was planning on the stewart platform | 22:01 |
| fenn | which is based on the same octahedral geometry | 22:02 |
| fenn | i guess once the toolchain is in place (generative functional-constraint cad program) it will end up being made out of min-a-max components most likely | 22:03 |
| kanzure | when I look at stewart platforms, it doesn't look like the same octahedral min-a-max geometry | 22:07 |
| fenn | do you see the octahedral frame? http://www.mel.nist.gov/galleryph/intelsys/images/hxpro1.jpg | 22:12 |
| gene | min a max? | 22:12 |
| fenn | the idea is that frame (blue stuff) would be made from min-a-max components | 22:12 |
| fenn | min-a-max nodes can do other geometry besides octahedrons as well | 22:13 |
| fenn | gene: a shape grammar system for architecture http://radio.weblogs.com/0119080/images/MinAMax/uns6.jpg | 22:13 |
| gene | I've seen that somewhere | 22:14 |
| gene | I forget where | 22:14 |
| fenn | in the link from 21:51? | 22:14 |
| gene | no | 22:14 |
| gene | looked at that | 22:15 |
| gene | oh yeah | 22:15 |
| gene | I remeber | 22:15 |
| gene | some IRL building | 22:15 |
| fenn | they sort of remind me of some snap-fit toys i had as a kid | 22:15 |
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| fenn | fwiw snap-fit is infinitely superior to press-fit construction | 22:21 |
| fenn | the restoring force drives the assembly back into its ideal configuration, rather than just holding it still | 22:22 |
| gene | both suck in comparison to screws | 22:23 |
| fenn | so you get negative feedback vs integrating over the total misalignment | 22:23 |
| fenn | screws are easy to disassemble, but snap-fit doesn't have to be difficult to disassemble | 22:23 |
| fenn | the laser cutter people can't figure out how to do snap-fit construction | 22:24 |
| fenn | but that doesn't mean we're stuck with press-fit | 22:24 |
| kanzure | does snap-fit work with metals? | 22:25 |
| kanzure | doesn't the material have to be elastic? | 22:25 |
| fenn | yes | 22:26 |
| fenn | my motorcycle has plastic panels with nubs that snap into rubber grommets in the metal frame | 22:26 |
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| kanzure | so it snaps into the rubber, not the metal | 22:27 |
| fenn | there are a lot of electronic connectors based on snap-fit beryllium copper | 22:27 |
| fenn | and "snaps" like on jackets | 22:27 |
| kanzure | I remember looking over USB, but I don't remember what type it is | 22:27 |
| kanzure | ethernet/ RCJ 45 is snap-fit, I know that much | 22:28 |
| kanzure | RJ 45 | 22:28 |
| fenn | that's the plastic flexing though | 22:28 |
| kanzure | not snapping? | 22:28 |
| fenn | and really it's more of a lock than snap-fit | 22:28 |
| gene | hmmm... show me some good examples of snapfit | 22:28 |
| fenn | i'm not your fucking engineering professor | 22:28 |
| kanzure | then who is? | 22:28 |
| kanzure | because these clowns aren't | 22:28 |
| gene | can you do really high precision stuff that can easily disassemble with snap fit? | 22:29 |
| kanzure | in snap fit, the idea is that as you force something into some socket, it deforms, and then once it gets past a certain points, it 'bounces' back but by that time it's locked | 22:29 |
| kanzure | however doesn't that mean that one degree of motion or something would be used for de-snapfitting? | 22:29 |
| kanzure | is lego a good example of snap fit? | 22:30 |
| fenn | no | 22:30 |
| kanzure | http://www.seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/structure-designs/small-snap-fit-parts-easy-seastead-construction | 22:30 |
| fenn | well, the little roll pins maybe | 22:30 |
| fenn | lego bricks are press fit | 22:31 |
| fenn | keep in mind that people are sloppy with terminology | 22:31 |
| fenn | in fact i just made up these terms snap fit and press fit | 22:31 |
| kanzure | are you sure? because I've been seeing those terms all day | 22:31 |
| kanzure | http://www2.basf.us/businesses/plasticportal/images/pic_tools_snap.jpg <-- snap fit? | 22:32 |
| fenn | you know, pirates used to have a supersition that nails would interact with the earth's magnetic field and pull you to the bottom of the ocean, so they made entire ships all with interlocking peg construction | 22:33 |
| fenn | or maybe it was just that it would interfere with the compass, but whatever | 22:33 |
| kanzure | heh, superstitions leading to coincidentially good design strategies | 22:33 |
| kanzure | snap fits seem to only be for plastics | 22:34 |
| kanzure | http://engr.bd.psu.edu/pkoch/plasticdesign/snap_design.htm | 22:34 |
| fenn | because plastics are the only easily customizable shape material | 22:35 |
| fenn | metal jacket snaps are the only counterexample i can think of | 22:35 |
| fenn | snap rings are made of spring steel | 22:35 |
| fenn | i doubt you've ever taken out a driveshaft | 22:36 |
| fenn | not talking about the ones with holes that you use snap ring pliers on | 22:36 |
| * fenn prays for an engineering ontology to descend from heaven | 22:37 | |
| bkero | bakelite | 22:38 |
| fenn | sorry, they're called "set rings" | 22:38 |
| fenn | crx driveshaft: http://imagebin.org/43245 | 22:40 |
| fenn | bkero: all polymers are 'plastics' in my book | 22:41 |
| fenn | even if they're brittle thermoset material like bakelite | 22:41 |
| fenn | technically steel is a plastic material | 22:42 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic | 22:43 |
| kanzure | so, in the case of the min-a-max base to the stewart platform, why is that optimal? | 22:44 |
| kanzure | and what type of fits/joints were being used there? | 22:45 |
| kanzure | http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tensegrity_Dome.jpg how much load could this take? | 22:46 |
| kanzure | are these at all 'parametrically defined' ? | 22:46 |
| fenn | there are different ways to make the joints; i dont really like the way pearce does it with the smooshed metal inserted into a slotted cylinder | 22:47 |
| fenn | geodesic domes are by definition parametrically defined | 22:48 |
| fenn | diameter, frequency | 22:48 |
| kanzure | so it's peg-in-hole | 22:48 |
| fenn | no | 22:49 |
| kanzure | smooshed metal inserted into a slotted cylinder? | 22:49 |
| fenn | http://radio.weblogs.com/0119080/images/MinAMax/joint.gif is what i'm referring to | 22:49 |
| fenn | i think that looks like crap | 22:49 |
| fenn | here is a neater way, but more involved construction http://challenge.bfi.org/application_summary/66 | 22:51 |
| fenn | argh fucking javascript bullshit | 22:51 |
| fenn | well you get the idea | 22:52 |
| fenn | http://challenge.bfi.org/sites/challenge.bfi.org/files/IMGP1245.jpg | 22:52 |
| kanzure | I figure it might be worthless if the only thing that I can get out of the shape grammar for splitting up a design into connectable puzzle pieces | 22:52 |
| kanzure | but if there's some incentive like support frames for non-mass-'anchored' cnc machines | 22:53 |
| kanzure | or other possible tools, then that sounds like something worth doing | 22:53 |
| gene | smooshed metal into sloted cylinder = cheap | 22:53 |
| fenn | not convinced | 22:54 |
| fenn | the other thing is also just stamped metal | 22:54 |
| gene | I wonder, how big would a subunit have to be for a fullair | 22:57 |
| fenn | the trend is that smaller subunits have higher performance ratio than larger ones | 23:01 |
| fenn | once you get past a certain dome frequency (3 i think) you start to have to worry about making a truss frame | 23:01 |
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| fenn | or the sphere will dimple | 23:01 |
| gene | http://www.zenoli.net/2007/01/geodesic-origami/ | 23:03 |
| gene | hmmmm... | 23:03 |
| gene | yeah | 23:03 |
| fenn | i did something like that in college | 23:03 |
| fenn | mine wasnt nearly as cool though | 23:03 |
| fenn | same colors even | 23:03 |
| fenn | cool - apt-cache show dome | 23:05 |
| gene | http://www.airshiptg.org/businessscienceoverview.htm | 23:17 |
| gene | this might actually make sense if electric cars take off | 23:17 |
| bkero | protip: Heavy steel objects are not conductive to flying well | 23:18 |
| gene | who needs an electric motor connected to a driveshaft connected to a wheel | 23:18 |
| gene | when you can have a ball that is a motor | 23:19 |
| gene | well it | 23:19 |
| gene | doesn't fly | 23:19 |
| gene | and if you getting spinning fast enough, you might be able to make it so it can dislodge any ferromagnetic objects | 23:21 |
| bkero | You can probably get a VW Lupo tuned right to do 100mph, seat 4, and have 10 CuL of storage | 23:22 |
| gene | ??? | 23:23 |
| bkero | For the PI-AXP | 23:25 |
| fenn | can't quite tell if it's serious or not | 23:28 |
| gene | PI-AXP? | 23:29 |
| bkero | It's in the link | 23:30 |
| kanzure | fenn didn't answer me :( | 23:34 |
| kanzure | not that it's answerable. | 23:34 |
| fenn | what was the question? | 23:36 |
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| fenn | a min-a-max frame is a convenient place to mount machine components, that's all | 23:45 |
| fenn | it's optimally convenient i guess | 23:46 |
| fenn | i wish pythonocc would hurry up and get done | 23:47 |
| fenn | the API i mean | 23:47 |
| bkero | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/google-launches-project-to-boost-python-performance-by-5x.ars | 23:49 |
| fenn | JIT compiler, isnt that what psyco does? | 23:50 |
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