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| faceface | can you simulate physical systems in cad like in garrysmod? | 02:48 |
|---|---|---|
| faceface | I remember you guys talking about things on this topic, so I guess the answer is yes, I'm just wondering how quickly you can build physically realistic 'stuff' using things like pythonOCC | 02:49 |
| faceface | and how much more physically realistic it is compared to garrys mod (where there are no gyroscopic effects for example). | 02:49 |
| genehacker | yes faceface | 03:13 |
| genehacker | I believe garry's mod does simulate gyroscopic effects | 03:14 |
| genehacker | just rigid body kinematics | 03:16 |
| genehacker | IE what I'm having a test over | 03:17 |
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| kanzure | http://www.sci-mate.org// | 07:48 |
| kanzure | what? | 07:48 |
| kanzure | http://www.sci-mate.org/forum/index.php?topic=22.new#new | 07:49 |
| kanzure | I don't understand why this is novel | 07:49 |
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| kanzure | uh oh, don't know who to send this email to. there's a certain set of people that I know that expect to be updated when I have something exciting happen, like an interview, except I don't know the bounds of this set any more since it's so large | 08:53 |
| kanzure | what's all this about surface plasmon-enhanced stuff? | 09:12 |
| myelinza1 | now that I think about it, zotero is somewhat like my firefox extension that I wrote in 2007 to enable numberpad-scoping of google search results with an autoscroll feature | 10:18 |
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| faceface | kanzure: actually I wanted to set something like scimate up | 11:32 |
| faceface | called 'biobuddy' | 11:32 |
| faceface | in bioinformatics there is a specific bottleneck between biologists and informaticians | 11:32 |
| faceface | often biologists need some very simple informatics, and informatics need some very simple bio | 11:33 |
| faceface | the idea was to partner bio ppl with data with info ppl with algs. | 11:33 |
| faceface | each buddy would result in a pub. | 11:33 |
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| kanzure | faceface: that's neat. why would it result in a publication though? says who? | 12:31 |
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| fenn | because the result of anything at all in academia is a paper | 12:46 |
| * kanzure turns into a paper | 12:46 | |
| fenn | it's like a blog... with references, and a paywall | 12:46 |
| kanzure | fenn: should I try to pick a date for you, me and jonathan cline to meet up? | 12:46 |
| kanzure | I really think it would be better if he figured out how to use irc | 12:47 |
| kanzure | but that doesn't seem to be the case so far.. | 12:47 |
| fenn | i mailed him yesterday about meeting; he said he'd be on campus today 1-6 | 12:47 |
| kanzure | oh | 12:47 |
| kanzure | well then. | 12:47 |
| fenn | i said something like 'um, parking, wah! call me i guess' | 12:47 |
| kanzure | there's a small parking lot on the south wall of my building | 12:48 |
| kanzure | you can sometimes get away with parking there if it's not a busy day | 12:48 |
| kanzure | using this: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/CADgears2/gears.py can you make multiple objects display on the screen? even without the file reading stuff. I seem to be unable to display multiple objects read from a file, and I've been using every debugging trick in the book (passing fake data, using constants instead of reading, etc.) | 12:54 |
| * fenn grumbles about yet another script named 'gears.py' | 12:55 | |
| kanzure | you better not look at the code. | 12:55 |
| kanzure | it's hideous :( | 12:55 |
| fenn | too late | 12:55 |
| kanzure | *explosions* | 12:55 |
| fenn | int(float())? | 12:57 |
| fenn | you can use a relative path for visualizerOutput.txt | 12:57 |
| fenn | why isnt this in a git repo | 12:58 |
| kanzure | try this one: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/CADgears2/gears_20090415.py (fixes the stupid int(float())) | 12:58 |
| kanzure | because my git repos always fail | 12:58 |
| fenn | am i supposed to open this from InteractiveViewer? | 12:58 |
| kanzure | yes | 12:58 |
| kanzure | there's an "execute script" option under the 'File' menu | 12:59 |
| fenn | do you have to do export CSF_GraphicShr='' to run InteractiveViewer? | 12:59 |
| * kanzure nods | 13:00 | |
| kanzure | but you have to set the value. | 13:00 |
| fenn | ok i see some super mario coins | 13:00 |
| kanzure | oh really? how many? | 13:00 |
| fenn | five | 13:00 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 13:00 |
| kanzure | did you do anything to fix it? | 13:00 |
| kanzure | are you using gears_20090415.py ? | 13:00 |
| fenn | and i think there was a rod/cylinder but it disappeared when i rotated | 13:01 |
| kanzure | you probably just visually lost track of it | 13:01 |
| kanzure | ok, /me goes back to the older version to see what's up | 13:01 |
| kanzure | gee, you know, version control would be great here | 13:01 |
| kanzure | oh wait | 13:01 |
| * kanzure hunts down the old git notes | 13:01 | |
| fenn | no it wasnt a rod, just one of the disks on-end | 13:01 |
| fenn | i have to exit InteractiveViewer to reload it | 13:02 |
| kanzure | supposedly display.EraseAll() should do the trick | 13:02 |
| kanzure | but it never works for me. | 13:02 |
| fenn | i didnt do anything but download visualizerOutput.txt and change the path in the file | 13:03 |
| fenn | didnt download _20090415 | 13:03 |
| kanzure | ok, don't bother | 13:03 |
| kanzure | aw. InteractiveViewer crashes upon trying to load that script over here. how did I write it then? | 13:06 |
| kanzure | or, erm, use it before | 13:06 |
| kanzure | oh, it's because the path is relative | 13:06 |
| fenn | it's kind of annoying that python doesn't give you a linenumber mechanism along with the readline() method | 13:08 |
| kanzure | yay display.EraseAll() works now | 13:08 |
| fenn | instead of print "foo" + str(i) + "bar" | 13:10 |
| fenn | print "foo", i, "bar" | 13:10 |
| kanzure | huh. makes sense. I was trying first print "foo" + i | 13:10 |
| kanzure | but + would be the + operator for integers | 13:11 |
| fenn | also i think it's worth defining a Gear object before stuffing all the values into opencascade | 13:12 |
| kanzure | I had that in my glxgears.py thingy. so yeah I'll go back to that soon. | 13:12 |
| fenn | unless you're really comfortable with pythonOCC introspection | 13:12 |
| kanzure | nope | 13:12 |
| fenn | didnt think so | 13:12 |
| fenn | oh, another trick for string formatting is like printf | 13:12 |
| kanzure | I know about printf :) | 13:13 |
| kanzure | I told you this code was bad. | 13:13 |
| fenn | print "foo %i bar" % i | 13:13 |
| fenn | ok | 13:13 |
| fenn | er, %s | 13:13 |
| fenn | %d dammit | 13:13 |
| kanzure | %d | 13:13 |
| fenn | just try every letter until you get it | 13:13 |
| kanzure | :( | 13:13 |
| fenn | sprinkle numbers and decimal points for added effect | 13:13 |
| kanzure | meta-script | 13:13 |
| fenn | hey that's what unit tests are for right :P | 13:14 |
| kanzure | eval() and then arrayofvals = range('a','z') | 13:14 |
| kanzure | (who needs documentation) | 13:14 |
| fenn | actually since it's a string you could do it in normal code (no eval) | 13:14 |
| kanzure | ok, so just assemble \%'s | 13:14 |
| fenn | last night i was working on getting a simple parallel port avr programmer going | 13:15 |
| kanzure | now that display.EraseAll() works, I can make the script a method and just reload it instead of continuously loading a path to the script etc. it's nice when things work. | 13:16 |
| fenn | no matter what i did, nothing worked | 13:16 |
| kanzure | what is the programmer made out of? is this one of the makeshift "plug in some resistors and transistors and hope it works" ? | 13:16 |
| fenn | then at the very end, on a whim i tried the usbtiny programmer i had made earlier which isnt supposed to work on old USB port | 13:16 |
| fenn | and miraculously it works | 13:16 |
| fenn | so now i'm really confused | 13:16 |
| fenn | yeah resistors | 13:16 |
| fenn | i also have a buffered programmer someone made for me a long time ago, but i might have broken it (that's why i was building the simple resistor one) | 13:17 |
| fenn | anyway i can't get a sensible result from the parport | 13:17 |
| fenn | voltages all over the place and i can't seem to get it to change the pin i want | 13:17 |
| fenn | but it changes other pins | 13:18 |
| kanzure | what? pin changing? of the parallel port pins? | 13:18 |
| fenn | maybe i'm looking at the connector wrong? | 13:18 |
| fenn | change of pin state, from on to off | 13:18 |
| fenn | so i'm glad the usbtiny programmer works but i can only find one of them (i know i stole one back from IU robo club before I left) | 13:19 |
| fenn | oh maybe it's in this tub here (usb gadgets) | 13:19 |
| fenn | ah good there it is | 13:20 |
| fenn | now to see if it works | 13:20 |
| fenn | whoever came up with standard A and B connectors is an idiot | 13:21 |
| fenn | oh, right i have to program the programmer first :) | 13:22 |
| kanzure | "I am program, programmer, and that which is programmed." | 13:22 |
| fenn | I AM USBTINY | 13:23 |
| kanzure | treadwell is trying to convince me that the tiny DLP/DMD chip thingies are what I need | 13:24 |
| kanzure | but these things are still expensive.. | 13:24 |
| fenn | are they? i dont know where to actually buy them | 13:24 |
| fenn | nor have i ever actually seen a unit price | 13:24 |
| fenn | you would assume TI would sell them on digikey | 13:24 |
| fenn | all these people talking about <$0.01 RFID tags but i cant find them for <$1 | 13:29 |
| kanzure | volume? | 13:31 |
| kanzure | volume unit discounts | 13:32 |
| fenn | $0.50 in qty 5000 | 13:32 |
| fenn | maybe that really is the best so far | 13:33 |
| fenn | i just have a hard time believing they'd put a $0.50 RFID tag in just about anything you buy at a retail store | 13:33 |
| fenn | hm printed tags only came out in february 2009? wtf | 13:37 |
| fenn | maybe the little sticker thingies are just resonant circuits, not really RFID | 13:37 |
| kanzure | wtfwtfwtf | 13:41 |
| kanzure | times a million | 13:41 |
| kanzure | http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15426 | 13:41 |
| kanzure | " | 13:41 |
| kanzure | This small size MEMs (Micro Electro Mechanical Systems) assembly made for a blinding output video projection unit. Consists of a .76" x .62" assembly which contains over a million mirrors mounted to a flexible PC cable with tiny gold fingers. Each mirror represents one pixel. We have no info on these however, these were rejected by QC for slight imperfections or scratches. Sold "AS IS" only- No returns. The original cost of these was over $100 each! G15426" | 13:41 |
| kanzure | $23 | 13:41 |
| kanzure | erm, $3 | 13:41 |
| fenn | yeah good luck interfacing to it | 13:42 |
| kanzure | what's that port interface? is that some standard that I already know? | 13:42 |
| kanzure | heh | 13:42 |
| fenn | i have a bunch of them already; havent we been over this? | 13:42 |
| kanzure | oh, I thought you said you didn't know how to acquire them? | 13:43 |
| fenn | well, ok, perhaps that wasn't 100% perfect way to say it | 13:43 |
| kanzure | "I don't know where to actually but them" | 13:43 |
| fenn | i dont know where to buy them with documentation on how to use it | 13:44 |
| fenn | just finding some datasheets could help in figuring out the interface to these $3 chips tho | 13:44 |
| fenn | i have no idea if there is any standard interface or what | 13:45 |
| kanzure | emil and I are doing a 9 pm monsters-vs-aliens movie. | 13:45 |
| kanzure | at the imax down the street | 13:45 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/gears/CADgears2/2009-04-15.png | 13:46 |
| kanzure | guess something must be going right | 13:46 |
| kanzure | "Docs? We're talking Electronic Goldmine here, Bryan! | 14:05 |
| kanzure | I've not run across any yet on Google. Perhaps we could throw this out to the Robot Group? | 14:05 |
| kanzure | As we don't need to create video, we might be able to bootstrap the documentation ourselves. How hard could it be? Let's see...64 pins, 2 states each = 1.8E19 possibilities. You and I could split the job between us, leaving only 9E18 possibilities each." | 14:05 |
| fenn | there's only 25 and i can guess what 4 of them are (power, ground) | 14:08 |
| fenn | this is what they actually look like http://imagebin.org/45615 | 14:09 |
| kanzure | hm | 14:10 |
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| kanzure | Hi branstrom. | 14:11 |
| branstrom | Hi kanzure! | 14:11 |
| kanzure | who be? | 14:11 |
| branstrom | Found this channel through WTA - transhumanism.se - http://www.biopunk.org/swedish-transhumanists-t78.html | 14:12 |
| kanzure | Ah, that's unfortunate. I was hoping you were someone else who I just asked to join the channel. :) | 14:12 |
| kanzure | Anyway, welcome. | 14:12 |
| kanzure | we're currently complaining about the lack of DMD documentation | 14:13 |
| kanzure | care to join us? | 14:13 |
| branstrom | I think maybe transhumanism.se should be separated from biopunk.org? | 14:13 |
| branstrom | DMD means what? | 14:13 |
| kanzure | digital mirror device. It's a micromechanical mirror array. | 14:13 |
| fenn | super high resolution in a chip | 14:13 |
| branstrom | Uh, go ahead, I'll listen in... | 14:13 |
| fenn | they are used in digital projectors | 14:14 |
| kanzure | transhumanism.se used to be aleph.se, ran by Anders Sandberg | 14:14 |
| kanzure | but now Anders is some silly philosopher at Oxford | 14:14 |
| fenn | it's long been an idea of mine to turn one into a head mounted display | 14:14 |
| fenn | wtf is a biopunk | 14:16 |
| branstrom | Someone should take hold of it. I could design a static site or a blog | 14:16 |
| branstrom | I'm sure there are people who would help raise it into some remote part of the collective consciousness | 14:17 |
| fenn | branstrom: the more generic and all encompassing you make your organization, the more people will get upset when it turns out not to be what they first imagined | 14:18 |
| fenn | see for example 'world transhumanist association' | 14:18 |
| fenn | 'swedish transhumanist association' is only one step down | 14:19 |
| branstrom | It's pretty narrow already, don't you think? | 14:19 |
| fenn | most transhumanists are highly individualistic and don't like people speaking in their place | 14:19 |
| fenn | especially a do-nothing media-hog organization | 14:20 |
| fenn | especially when all they ever talk about is ethics and laws, things that won't exist in a transhumanist context anyway | 14:21 |
| fenn | but whatever, it's just a domain name | 14:21 |
| branstrom | Hmm, true, but so are humanists, and they're on the rise. As long as you can agree on some principles, I think there's a fair chance you can accomplish something. In addition to being individualistic, I think we also like to be activists? | 14:21 |
| branstrom | And activists have everything to gain by working together toward some common goal... | 14:22 |
| fenn | i don't know what 'activist' means anymore | 14:22 |
| fenn | running around in the street throwing tear gas canisters at riot cops? is that an activist? | 14:22 |
| fenn | writing snarky comments to slashdot, activist? | 14:22 |
| fenn | working on boring but potentially liberating technology; activist? | 14:23 |
| branstrom | Are you so sure we won't have ethics and laws once the ball starts rolling? Maybe they'll just be incredibly more complex? | 14:23 |
| fenn | doing said work at evil corporation/government institution X? | 14:23 |
| fenn | branstrom: of course ethics will still be around; but it's stupid to try to predict what people will be worried about (hint: history has shown that it was never what people predicted) | 14:24 |
| branstrom | People who want to help the technological revolution come sooner rather than later, and want to bring discussion of all the aspects of it out into the public consciousness in some way, that's an activist in this context, I think | 14:26 |
| fenn | most important is to fix many small, easily solveable problems, not worry about grand philosophical dilemmas | 14:26 |
| fenn | little things like, you know, not dying | 14:26 |
| kanzure | why is it that people that think promoting discussion is so noble? | 14:27 |
| branstrom | Except if you focus too much on the “little“ things, maybe the grand stuff floats out of your control and just evolves mindlessly, and we don't want that, do we? | 14:27 |
| kanzure | anyoen worth their salt is already discussing it | 14:27 |
| kanzure | branstrom: if you want to help make transhuman projects a reality, give me a fabrication facility | 14:28 |
| kanzure | not a discussion place | 14:28 |
| fenn | i'm tired of discussion, and i suspect anyone who's been aware of the subject for longer than i have, is also tired of discussion | 14:28 |
| fenn | maybe i'm just tired | 14:29 |
| branstrom | Hm. | 14:29 |
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| branstrom | So what would you do if you had... fabrication facilities? | 14:30 |
| fenn | kanzure: were there usenet groups about these topics in the 80's? | 14:30 |
| kanzure | fenn: there were mailing lists, but yes | 14:31 |
| kanzure | extropy-chat goes back to the 80s, it's where everyone cool used to hang out | 14:31 |
| kanzure | now they're just old farts who don't do anything | 14:31 |
| kanzure | anders, eli, ray, etc. | 14:31 |
| fenn | futurists | 14:31 |
| fenn | not doers | 14:31 |
| branstrom | Just increase everyone's intelligence to make them see the issues more clearly? :) | 14:31 |
| kanzure | wtf is intelligence? | 14:31 |
| fenn | dirty word | 14:31 |
| fenn | just increase everyone's godliness | 14:32 |
| kanzure | nonsense word | 14:32 |
| branstrom | Have you read On Intelligence? | 14:32 |
| kanzure | yes | 14:32 |
| branstrom | Okay. | 14:33 |
| branstrom | Still not clear on what it is? | 14:33 |
| kanzure | he just wrote a bunch of little artificial neural networks | 14:34 |
| kanzure | and came up with some silly HTM theory, which while nice, isn't about intelligence | 14:34 |
| fenn | but kanzure, it's a magic bullet! | 14:35 |
| fenn | it must be the one answer we've always been looking for | 14:35 |
| kanzure | oh really? | 14:35 |
| kanzure | okay branstrom solve all my problems | 14:35 |
| fenn | obviously, because the universe arranges itself around simple elegant mathematical laws | 14:35 |
| branstrom | I have to say I find it increasingly convincing... Read it this autumn | 14:35 |
| kanzure | convincing of what? | 14:35 |
| branstrom | Of course the theory isn't perfect, but no scientific theory starts out with all the pieces put together. It's an incremental process. I think this is a solid theory to start from. | 14:36 |
| kanzure | theory of what? | 14:37 |
| branstrom | And they've got it working, haven't they? | 14:37 |
| branstrom | Intelligence. | 14:37 |
| kanzure | you can't have a theory when you don't define what you're talking about | 14:37 |
| fenn | "It is the ability to make predictions about the future that is the crux of intelligence." is his definition of intelligence | 14:37 |
| kanzure | oh please | 14:37 |
| kanzure | by that standard, if I make something that combinatorially generates text files of all possible sentences, I'll have the smartest thingy in the universe | 14:37 |
| fenn | of course there are numerous counterexamples: music, interpersonal relationships, pattern recognition, abstraction | 14:38 |
| * kanzure goes back to his programming | 14:38 | |
| fenn | goal-seeking is something we're futzing with right now | 14:39 |
| branstrom | I don't think you've tried to understand it. | 14:39 |
| fenn | running a zillion simulations won't help find the path to the goal | 14:39 |
| fenn | branstrom: you're right; i've had all of 7 minutes to read about it | 14:39 |
| kanzure | branstrom: I don't think you know what I'm saying either. | 14:40 |
| fenn | but i can tell you right now that anyone who tries to squeeze "intelligence" into a tiny little box is going to fail | 14:40 |
| kanzure | what I'm saying is that "intelligence" is a buzzword and it doesn't actually exist- no matter how godly people try to describe themselves | 14:40 |
| branstrom | What godly people? What do you mean by that word? How do they try to describe themselves? | 14:41 |
| kanzure | they say "people are intelligent" | 14:41 |
| kanzure | or "this person is intelligent" | 14:41 |
| branstrom | And what's a “tiny little box“? | 14:41 |
| kanzure | conceptualization | 14:41 |
| branstrom | So what are you saying, that we can't have a unifying theory of intelligence? | 14:42 |
| kanzure | exactly! because it's bogus! | 14:42 |
| branstrom | Please use proper argumentation. | 14:42 |
| kanzure | you can't have a "unifying theory" of something that doesn't exist. | 14:43 |
| fenn | there's no logical proof for the existence/non-existence of intelligence | 14:43 |
| branstrom | So intelligence doesn't exist? But you and me, we're intelligent, no? | 14:43 |
| kanzure | we're what? | 14:43 |
| fenn | what a semantic clusterfuck | 14:44 |
| branstrom | We understand the world around us, don't we? We can make predictions and we possess abstract knowledge about the goings-on in the complex world that we live in? | 14:44 |
| branstrom | Did you really read his book, or did you just read the back cover? | 14:45 |
| kanzure | I read his book. | 14:45 |
| kanzure | I don't see what any of that has to do with whether or not "intelligence" is a true thing. | 14:45 |
| branstrom | Why would we not be intelligent? I don't get it. | 14:45 |
| fenn | hm why don't i have this book yet, do either of you have a pdf? | 14:46 |
| kanzure | yes, one moment. it's somewhere. /me digs | 14:46 |
| branstrom | fenn: I put a torrent on mininova.org last year | 14:46 |
| branstrom | http://www.mininova.org/tor/1625824 | 14:46 |
| kanzure | hm, nope, don't have it on the server | 14:47 |
| kanzure | anyway | 14:47 |
| branstrom | Audiobook + PDF. | 14:47 |
| kanzure | it's actually not worth it, the wikipedia article is a good summary of the arguments | 14:47 |
| branstrom | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory-prediction_framework This one? Okay... | 14:47 |
| kanzure | I honestly don't see why you had to change the conversation from "intelligence" to "understanding" and "predictions" etc. etc. | 14:48 |
| kanzure | you're just changing the terminology.. | 14:48 |
| branstrom | Well, please explain your frustration in better detail. | 14:48 |
| kanzure | what? | 14:48 |
| kanzure | you're the one who believes in this magical thingy called "intelligence" :p | 14:48 |
| kanzure | that's why I said "we're what?" | 14:49 |
| kanzure | because you were essentially saying "we're magical" | 14:49 |
| kanzure | and I completely disagree | 14:49 |
| branstrom | I haven't called it magical | 14:49 |
| kanzure | you said "we're intelligent, aren't we?" | 14:49 |
| branstrom | Magic implies undecipherable mystery, which is far from what I mean | 14:49 |
| kanzure | then why do you use the word "intelligence" ? | 14:50 |
| kanzure | or why do you believe in "intelligence" ? | 14:50 |
| branstrom | What word should I use, then? | 14:50 |
| kanzure | for what? | 14:50 |
| branstrom | I don't think we've grown up in the same semantic climate... :) | 14:50 |
| fenn | the point is there's no overarching concept that covers everything | 14:50 |
| kanzure | "what word should I use, then?" what word .. "for what" use are you going to use the word? | 14:50 |
| fenn | ugh.. "real intelligence" vs "artificial intelligence" | 14:52 |
| branstrom | Look, every word is ripe with assumptions supplied by our culture and upbringing and so on | 14:52 |
| kanzure | so what? | 14:52 |
| kanzure | what I am wondering is "for what". you asked me a question: "which word should I use then?" | 14:53 |
| branstrom | We can't really have a conversation if I have to define every word I use. | 14:53 |
| kanzure | that's true | 14:53 |
| kanzure | but it's not like that | 14:53 |
| kanzure | maybe you're not talking about anything? | 14:53 |
| fenn | can't you guys argue about eugenics or something | 14:53 |
| kanzure | hah | 14:53 |
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| branstrom | Do you guys watch Fringe? | 14:54 |
| branstrom | :D | 14:54 |
| kanzure | Walter Bishop is based off of me. | 14:54 |
| kanzure | (I'm Bryan Bishop, the real life version of the character) | 14:54 |
| branstrom | Oh! That's... disconcerting. | 14:54 |
| kanzure | :p | 14:54 |
| branstrom | And strangely erotic. | 14:55 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Bishop_(Fringe)#Walter_Bishop | 14:55 |
| branstrom | The intelligence conversation is making me tired, we'll continue tomorrow, kay? | 14:55 |
| branstrom | Someone's maliciously edited out the reference to you as the true basis of the character ;) | 14:57 |
| fenn | deletionists | 14:57 |
| kanzure | the scum of the internet | 14:57 |
| kanzure | you'll never find a more rechid hive of scum and vilany | 14:57 |
| branstrom | Spelled “wretched“, fyi | 14:58 |
| branstrom | Who are you guys, anyway? | 14:58 |
| fenn | mad scientist, internet anomaly | 14:58 |
| fenn | something like that | 14:58 |
| branstrom | I'm 22, from Sweden, web programmer + designer. Soon to be Cognitive Science student. | 14:59 |
| fenn | what sort of answer were you looking for? | 14:59 |
| fenn | i'm 26 from indiana, USA, now in austin texas to set up a hacker space. soon to be playing with wearable computers | 14:59 |
| kanzure | i'm 19, from austin texas, employed in a bajillion academic labs and a bajillion startups and am secretly an anomaly of the internet manifesting itself in the form of Ai | 15:00 |
| kanzure | nice to meet you | 15:00 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/ | 15:00 |
| * fenn kicks fennetic.net | 15:01 | |
| fenn | not worth what i paid for it :D | 15:01 |
| kanzure | you paid for it? | 15:01 |
| fenn | no | 15:01 |
| kanzure | ah I see | 15:01 |
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| fenn | mendeley resells your email to spammers | 15:03 |
| fenn | oh wait, false alarm | 15:03 |
| fenn | that was some other chem/bio thing i signed up as joe/blow | 15:03 |
| branstrom | Nice to meet you guys, too. | 15:04 |
| kanzure | joe blow? I know that guy. | 15:04 |
| branstrom | Wow, you got a lot going on, kanzure. More than I have, anyhow. | 15:04 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/chats/2009-04-14_SingularityHub_interview.html | 15:05 |
| kanzure | that's a recent interview I did, maybe it will help understand what I'm up to? | 15:05 |
| branstrom | Just a Rails programmer in the icier part of Sweden. Right near the edge of the wood. Real quiet. o_o | 15:05 |
| kanzure | rails doesn't make you evil. quite the opposite. | 15:06 |
| branstrom | Thanks, reading | 15:08 |
| fenn | wow newegg sells rice cookers? | 15:10 |
| fenn | you know a rice cooker would make a decent bio reactor | 15:11 |
| fenn | assuming it were properly hacked for precise temperature control | 15:12 |
| branstrom | kanzure: Have you written anything on the non-existence of intelligence, that might be illuminating to someone like me? | 15:16 |
| branstrom | What about “abstraction“? | 15:17 |
| branstrom | You don't think there's an over-arching algorithm to the sensory data processing taking place in our brains? | 15:17 |
| fenn | no | 15:18 |
| branstrom | I'm pretty much going into Cognitive Science because I'm fascinated by the possible consequences of Hawkins' theory. | 15:18 |
| fenn | hence 'emotion' vs 'rational thought' vs 'intuition' | 15:19 |
| branstrom | Hmm, what if I take back “brains“ and replace it with “neocortex“? | 15:20 |
| fenn | argh motherfucking asshats | 15:20 |
| fenn | Thanks for you interest in OpenWetWare! Unfortunately, we have a new policy regarding usernames where we ask you to give | 15:20 |
| branstrom | fenn: alright | 15:20 |
| fenn | your full (publication) names. Please reapply for an account with your full name, and we'll be happy to process the | 15:20 |
| fenn | account quickly. | 15:21 |
| branstrom | fenn: what kind of wearable computers? | 15:24 |
| fenn | the small and unobtrusive kind, with head mounted display and advanced input devices | 15:24 |
| fenn | i.e. not a bar of soap with tiny screen and impossible buttons | 15:25 |
| branstrom | Advanced input devices? | 15:26 |
| branstrom | Still wearable, even though they're “advanced“? | 15:26 |
| fenn | right now the plan is beagleboard, myvu crystal hacked apart to resemble a microoptical, 3D accelerometer, 2D gyro, GPS module, and finger mouse; will be researching eye trackers for look-and-blink interface | 15:26 |
| branstrom | Beagleboard? Myvu? | 15:27 |
| fenn | 15:27 | |
| branstrom | Yeah, yeah. | 15:28 |
| kanzure | fenn: do you need me to rough up the OWW people? | 15:34 |
| kanzure | an email I just received: "I am not a total n00b--to use the WoW-speak--when it comes to the world of biobacking, transhumanism, etc, but I really want to get into the community to learn more." | 15:34 |
| kanzure | biobacking heh | 15:34 |
| kanzure | how tall can you make a drop of water before it succumbs to gravity effects? | 15:36 |
| * fenn mumbles something about naked singularities | 15:39 | |
| fenn | call it 2mm | 15:40 |
| fenn | it depends on the surface it's on | 15:40 |
| kanzure | fenn: I'm answering the latest DIYbio post asking about ways to transfer genes into organisms. | 15:41 |
| kanzure | so I'm trying to think of the right word for "take the DNA of the organism, splice in a gene through restriction cuts, then ligate it together and then use " | 15:42 |
| kanzure | uh, and then use the method where you tap into a cell and inject new DNA with a physical giant pointy sharp thingy | 15:42 |
| kanzure | somatic transfer? | 15:42 |
| kanzure | have people done that? | 15:42 |
| branstrom | If I'd have to blink every time I wanted to click, my cornea would probably get a lot of scratches? | 15:43 |
| kanzure | does your cornea get scratched every time you blink? | 15:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_cell_nuclear_transfer | 15:44 |
| kanzure | hrm. I don't think people have transferred genomic DNA with SCNT though | 15:44 |
| branstrom | No, maybe it'd work. But wouldn't you get tired eventually? | 15:44 |
| kanzure | branstrom: the mouse was a bad idea. | 15:45 |
| kanzure | I don't like clicking. | 15:45 |
| branstrom | Neither do I, but blinking would be marginally worse. | 15:45 |
| branstrom | I think. | 15:45 |
| kanzure | hum. dunno. at least you sometimes don't realize you're blinking? | 15:45 |
| fenn | why arent there any 'green' notebook drives? this ought to be an obvious marketing gimmick | 15:45 |
| branstrom | Why don't we jump straight to mind control? | 15:46 |
| fenn | branstrom: the look-and-blink interface has a lot of unknowns and will probably change significantly | 15:46 |
| fenn | branstrom: perhaps you should ask the KGB about that | 15:46 |
| kanzure | fenn: gene transfer methods, go! | 15:47 |
| branstrom | BCI, I mean... | 15:47 |
| kanzure | retrovirus, plasmids, SCNT, | 15:47 |
| kanzure | anything else? | 15:47 |
| kanzure | meiosis, mitosis, .. | 15:47 |
| fenn | with two displays, one right, one left, you could only click on the right display if you wink with right eye, etc | 15:47 |
| fenn | people dont generally wink on accident | 15:48 |
| fenn | then you need two eye trackers though, which precludes a simple one-side attachment | 15:49 |
| fenn | i was also considering a 'ear twitch detector' | 15:49 |
| fenn | this would be easy to do, integrated with the glasses and well hidden, but it might get tiring after a while | 15:50 |
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| branstrom | A tongue movement detector thingie might work? | 15:50 |
| fenn | no thanks | 15:50 |
| fenn | there are other face muscles that could be used too | 15:51 |
| fenn | i dont know their names though | 15:51 |
| kanzure | SCNT isn't used as a gene vector? | 15:52 |
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| fenn | kanzure: do you want that drive back eventually? | 16:02 |
| fenn | my mom is asking what i want for my birthday | 16:03 |
| fenn | trying to reduce the number of if/and/or/else statements :) | 16:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: no, you can have it | 16:12 |
| kanzure | but I still think I'm being stupid by giving that to you instead of something with good stuff loaded on it | 16:12 |
| kanzure | this would be a chance to reduce my SPOFiness | 16:12 |
| fenn | yes | 16:12 |
| fenn | i havent installed it yet | 16:13 |
| kanzure | go ahead and use it for now. I have a few others. | 16:15 |
| kanzure | I must be the laziest person on earth, you've been here for, what, two months? and I still haven't got around to this? | 16:15 |
| kanzure | hey cis-action. | 16:17 |
| kanzure | fenn: any ideas on coloring objects in pythonocc? I think it's the "Quantity" module from occ. | 16:18 |
| kanzure | Quantity.Quantity_Color. but then I'm not sure how to set a color. | 16:19 |
| cis-action | hey guys. | 16:21 |
| fenn | there was an example of coloring | 16:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: test_XDE.py .. but that's not what I want. | 16:22 |
| kanzure | oh, display.DisplayColoredShape(wire.Wire(), 'RED') | 16:23 |
| fenn | yeah | 16:23 |
| kanzure | which of course isn't implemented blah | 16:23 |
| fenn | it's not? i remember seeing screenshots | 16:24 |
| kanzure | well, in BRepFeat_example.py it uses display.DisplayColoredShape(wire.Wire(), 'RED') but there's no display.DisplayColoredShape() in InteractiveViewer.py | 16:24 |
| fenn | ./src/Display/OCCViewer.py: def DisplayColoredShape(self,shape,color): | 16:24 |
| kanzure | not found | 16:25 |
| kanzure | wtf-age | 16:25 |
| kanzure | is "svn up" supposed to work? | 16:25 |
| kanzure | oh, svn up * | 16:26 |
| fenn | OCC.Display.OCCViewer.Viewer3d.DisplayColoredShape | 16:26 |
| kanzure | what am I supposed to do with that? | 16:26 |
| fenn | hell if i know | 16:26 |
| fenn | https://mail.gna.org/public/pythonocc-users/2009-03/msg00101.html | 16:27 |
| fenn | er, i mean https://mail.gna.org/public/pythonocc-users/2009-03/msg00098.html | 16:28 |
| kanzure | guess it's time for me to rebuild pythonocc | 16:30 |
| kanzure | (though I don't know why) | 16:30 |
| kanzure | ack | 16:33 |
| kanzure | "here's a standard protocol for PCR <english braindump>" *wtf* | 16:33 |
| kanzure | it hurts so much :( | 16:33 |
| kanzure | why doesn't anybody understand | 16:34 |
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| kanzure | why hasn't anybody stolen the NCBI public domain genomes yet? | 17:05 |
| kanzure | see typical "wah, people will copyright or patent something you put into the public domain" arguments | 17:05 |
| kanzure | then point to the public domain genomes | 17:05 |
| fenn | because NCBI provides free hosting | 17:17 |
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| kanzure | fenn: I don't think that's a reasonable retort. | 17:35 |
| fenn | because everyone that wants genome data already knows about NCBI? | 17:36 |
| fenn | answers.com succeeded (i guess) in 'stealing' wikipedia because they have good SEO | 17:36 |
| fenn | you can't really advance a genome, so there's no 'embrace and extend' danger | 17:37 |
| kanzure | huh? evolution? | 17:38 |
| kanzure | hrm | 17:39 |
| kanzure | I see. it's questionable what an "advancement" was | 17:39 |
| fenn | er.. well, the whole concept of patenting a genome doesn't make sense anyway, so the logic is kinda broken | 17:39 |
| kanzure | but if somebody hooked up a magical advancement super magic bullet machine to the genome repo at NCBI, then would they be concerned and take it down? | 17:39 |
| kanzure | I guess. | 17:39 |
| kanzure | it's just an interesting anomaly on the internet | 17:39 |
| fenn | on another planet there might be a torrent of all genome data | 17:40 |
| fenn | but this is earth, where people don't give a shit | 17:40 |
| kanzure | is there any field that studies internet anomalies? astronomers study anomalies in space, but who studies internet anomalies? | 17:40 |
| fenn | snopes? | 17:40 |
| kanzure | heh | 17:40 |
| kanzure | snopes: "nope, bryan isn't an ai. stop asking." | 17:40 |
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| kanzure | Hello drt. | 17:59 |
| kanzure | yay, is that you david? | 17:59 |
| drt | hello kanzure | 18:00 |
| drt | yep it is i | 18:00 |
| kanzure | fenn: treadwell is here | 18:00 |
| kanzure | we can now proceed to take over the world | 18:00 |
| fenn | yosh. | 18:00 |
| kanzure | drt: earlier today we were complaining about the lack of documentation on DMD's. | 18:00 |
| fenn | engage power to the plasmak cannons | 18:00 |
| drt | kanzure, i've figured it out. if we each buy 4 of those MEMS devices and check a billion per second | 18:01 |
| drt | we could finish in 30 years | 18:01 |
| fenn | partly lack of documentation, partly simple lack of availability to 'normal people' | 18:02 |
| fenn | if it's a component of a $500 projector it can't cost that much per unit | 18:03 |
| drt | so buy one & take it apart | 18:03 |
| fenn | that provides a source of reverse-engineering data, not documentation | 18:04 |
| fenn | i'm concerned the chips they use will be power hogs | 18:04 |
| fenn | not the DLP but the video interface stuff | 18:04 |
| drt | if we just want the end result, we only need to hack the optics | 18:04 |
| fenn | if you guys are doing DNA synthesis, that's much less demanding than wearable displays | 18:05 |
| drt | fire teh lazorz @ the mems. the image part of the circuit doesn't need hacking | 18:06 |
| fenn | so, $500 is ok for DNA synthesizer hardware? | 18:06 |
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| kanzure | oh, he's right you know | 18:07 |
| kanzure | it would be nice to be able to display images of course | 18:07 |
| fenn | yeah i know | 18:07 |
| kanzure | which is a good reason to just go with giant LCDs | 18:07 |
| kanzure | hrm | 18:07 |
| fenn | you can display images on a DLP in a fairly straightforward way :) | 18:08 |
| kanzure | if you have the documentation. | 18:08 |
| fenn | if you have a whole projector you dont need documentation | 18:08 |
| kanzure | wait, am I thinking of a DMD? or a DLP? | 18:08 |
| kanzure | which one is the micromirror device? | 18:08 |
| fenn | DLP is texas instrument's marketing for DMD's | 18:08 |
| kanzure | which one has pixels for light generation? | 18:10 |
| drt | how big do the pixels need to be? | 18:10 |
| fenn | the smaller the better | 18:10 |
| fenn | you'll run into diffraction soon enough | 18:10 |
| drt | which means... a few microns, then? DVD lazor resolution? | 18:11 |
| fenn | lasers won't fix it | 18:11 |
| fenn | and we don't have cheap UV lasers anyway | 18:12 |
| fenn | there's two optics problems: the size of the focusing lens, and the wavelength of light | 18:12 |
| kanzure | drt: I haven't done the maths yet | 18:12 |
| kanzure | but ideally, you need an array of something like 100x100 | 18:12 |
| kanzure | because you're building a strand of DNA at each spot | 18:12 |
| kanzure | and so more => better | 18:12 |
| fenn | 100x100 is pitifully small | 18:13 |
| drt | so a BluRay lazer optic system would be better. | 18:13 |
| drt | it's as good as we'll do for cheap | 18:14 |
| drt | the MEMS devices have a megapixel or so | 18:14 |
| fenn | a spinning disc? | 18:14 |
| fenn | the wavelength is somewhat constrained; it has to be energetic enough to remove the photolabile group but not so much that is blasts the dna into pieces | 18:15 |
| fenn | kanzure: do you know what wavelength they use? | 18:15 |
| drt | no need for spinning disc. expand the beam to fit the entire MEMS array, but focus it so it'll converge on the synthesis | 18:15 |
| kanzure | no. I don't have any wavelength specs for photolithography / DNA synthesis | 18:16 |
| drt | so don't use UV! DNA doesn't like UV. | 18:16 |
| fenn | drt: ok, so you're just using the blu-ray laser? not the lens/carrier | 18:16 |
| drt | sunburn, and all that | 18:16 |
| drt | right. just the laser | 18:16 |
| drt | gotta run... be back in 20 min... | 18:16 |
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| drt | back | 18:35 |
| kanzure | hey. | 18:37 |
| kanzure | I just wrote a very long email to diybio :( | 18:37 |
| kanzure | hah, nathan asked me for a "brief" description. oops | 18:38 |
| fenn | kanzure you really should try to avoid linux-specific jargon when trying to convince biologists to put things in computer readable formats | 18:41 |
| fenn | it just makes you look like a wingnut | 18:41 |
| drt | Site-specific binding and stretching of DNA molecules at UV-light-patterned aminoterpolymer films | 18:42 |
| drt | Jörg Opitz et al 2004 Nanotechnology 15 717-723 | 18:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: can you pick anything out in particular? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | drt: do you need me to get that for you? | 18:43 |
| fenn | In practice, if the | 18:43 |
| fenn | thermocycler ends up with an ethernet connection, then you'd just | 18:43 |
| fenn | dump/cat the file to it, or something, or if it's USB-wired, you | 18:43 |
| fenn | wouldn't send it through /dev/eth0 but rather elsewhere like a mounted | 18:43 |
| fenn | device. | 18:43 |
| kanzure | oh | 18:43 |
| kanzure | yes, that was particularly bad, I agree | 18:44 |
| kanzure | drt: here it is: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Site-specific%20binding%20and%20stretching%20of%20DNA%20molecules%20at%20UV-light-patterned%20aminoterpolymer%20films.pdf | 18:44 |
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| kanzure | Hey samrose. | 18:44 |
| drt | try this one instead. it's available online. Thanks, Canada! | 18:44 |
| drt | Jörg Opitz et al 2004 Nanotechnology 15 717-723 | 18:44 |
| drt | oops | 18:45 |
| drt | http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/RPAS/rpv?hm=HInit&afpf=v96-281.pdf&journal=cjc&volume=74 | 18:45 |
| drt | there | 18:45 |
| kanzure | drt: that link above gives you it. | 18:45 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Site-specific%20binding%20and%20stretching%20of%20DNA%20molecules%20at%20UV-light-patterned%20aminoterpolymer%20films.pdf | 18:45 |
| drt | full paper | 18:45 |
| samrose | hey kanzure | 18:45 |
| drt | but it's not about DNA, but it uses the same photolabile leaving group | 18:45 |
| kanzure | drt: I have some papers that you might be interested in about photolabile photochemistry DNA stuff | 18:45 |
| kanzure | you can see them at the top of the list here: | 18:46 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/?C=M;O=D | 18:46 |
| drt | mkay | 18:46 |
| drt | i'll get right on that ;) | 18:51 |
| kanzure | what? | 18:55 |
| kanzure | I'm so confused. | 18:56 |
| drt | reading your list of references | 18:59 |
| drt | ...reading... | 19:00 |
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| xp_prg | kanzure you here? | 19:03 |
| drt | reading the paper from the Affymetrix peeps "Efficiency of light directed synthesis..." | 19:06 |
| drt | i'lll disappear for a few minutes whilst I read this. talk amongst yourselves | 19:06 |
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| kanzure- | xp_prg: yes | 19:23 |
| kanzure- | drt: :) hope you like my paper collection | 19:23 |
| kanzure- | drt: if you want, we can physically arrange for you to get a copy of the data. there's over 40 GB of juicy papers. | 19:24 |
| drt | indeed! | 19:24 |
| drt | OOOOOoooo! | 19:24 |
| kanzure- | hehe :) | 19:24 |
| kanzure- | do you have any paper archives? | 19:24 |
| drt | it's like getting a PhD all over again! | 19:24 |
| kanzure- | hah | 19:24 |
| drt | Yep. About 250 pounds of 'em. | 19:24 |
| kanzure- | wait then. | 19:24 |
| fenn | is that a good thing? | 19:24 |
| kanzure- | where then is my phd? | 19:24 |
| fenn | er, the phd i mean | 19:25 |
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| * kanzure- demands a phd | 19:25 | |
| kanzure- | genehacker: hey | 19:25 |
| genehacker | hey | 19:25 |
| kanzure- | drt: genehacker is the one making a reprap | 19:25 |
| fenn | phd's for everybody! | 19:25 |
| drt | LOL. You haven't suffered enough to have a PhD! | 19:25 |
| genehacker | so you talked to Dr. Pryor | 19:25 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: drt is david treadwell, a materials guy who's been helping out with me | 19:25 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: I talked with pryor a while back, yeah | 19:25 |
| genehacker | and? | 19:26 |
| kanzure- | he offered me a summer job but I didn't take it | 19:26 |
| kanzure- | wait, he is interested in what I'm doing? | 19:26 |
| kanzure- | he didn't seem too interested when I mentioned it to him | 19:26 |
| kanzure- | I mentioned OROCOS to him and he didn't get all excited or anything | 19:26 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: should I send an email to pryor? | 19:27 |
| genehacker | if you want | 19:27 |
| fenn | how is it that you actually talk to professors? when i was a freshman they wouldn't even look at me | 19:27 |
| genehacker | he knew what a fablab was | 19:27 |
| fenn | 'do you have an appointment?' | 19:27 |
| genehacker | there was this event here discussing the science of ironman | 19:27 |
| genehacker | plus this guy is pretty cool | 19:28 |
| kanzure- | wtf, science of ironman | 19:28 |
| * kanzure- missed it :( | 19:28 | |
| genehacker | damn | 19:28 |
| genehacker | Err, more like engineering of ironman | 19:28 |
| genehacker | you know what? | 19:28 |
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| kanzure- | cave + iron + man => iron man | 19:28 |
| -!- splicer_ [n=patrik@h8n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 19:29 | |
| genehacker | dude, didn't you see the posters? | 19:29 |
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| drt | everyone wants to talk to Bryan. we're drawn to him like moths to an oxidative plasma | 19:29 |
| genehacker | oxidative plasma? | 19:29 |
| kanzure- | so he knew me? that's good | 19:29 |
| kanzure- | nope | 19:29 |
| genehacker | like a plasmak? | 19:29 |
| genehacker | oh you know what? | 19:30 |
| * fenn repeatedly bashes head into monitor | 19:30 | |
| kanzure | gah, too much lag. | 19:30 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: so, re: robotic arms + SLS. I have a new project in the automated design lab | 19:30 |
| kanzure | okay, anyway. | 19:30 |
| kanzure | oh. there I go. | 19:30 |
| genehacker | they can design purpose built robotic workcells in about a day now | 19:30 |
| kanzure | basically we get to do SKDB with ADL | 19:31 |
| kanzure | and campbell is thinking of hiring new people over the summer to work on stuff | 19:31 |
| fenn | o rly | 19:31 |
| kanzure | fenn should still show up :) | 19:31 |
| genehacker | pryor's working on a "I can't show you this because the military said I can't" project to make an automatic bomb assembly system | 19:31 |
| kanzure | bah. | 19:32 |
| genehacker | you know they assemble bombs right there on the ship? | 19:32 |
| kanzure | do they manufacture the parts on the ship? | 19:32 |
| genehacker | no | 19:32 |
| genehacker | they put them together | 19:32 |
| fenn | some replacement parts are made with SLS machines | 19:32 |
| genehacker | with a bunch of humans that work 72 hour shifts | 19:32 |
| drt | oooh! a self-replicating bomb! now that's a career without a future! | 19:32 |
| genehacker | what they do is they have like missile bodies and war heads and stuff like that I presume | 19:33 |
| genehacker | speaking of bombs... | 19:33 |
| kanzure | ok sent an email | 19:34 |
| genehacker | http://www.google.com/patents?id=3IApAAAAEBAJ&dq=fluidic+guidance | 19:34 |
| genehacker | to pryor? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:34 |
| genehacker | well I won't be able to talk much, you see I haven't had any sleep | 19:34 |
| genehacker | fluidic guidance of railgun launched missiles | 19:35 |
| genehacker | maybe we could adapt it to make a fluidically guided people seeker | 19:35 |
| kanzure | as fenn said, "you're just interested in it because it has the word fluid in it" | 19:36 |
| genehacker | yeah so? | 19:36 |
| genehacker | it's cool is it not? | 19:36 |
| genehacker | a missile guided by a 4 pixel fluidic camera | 19:37 |
| genehacker | a thermal imaging camera | 19:38 |
| genehacker | http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D97J48IO2.html | 19:48 |
| genehacker | huh? | 19:48 |
| genehacker | well I'm afk | 19:48 |
| drt | ttfn | 19:51 |
| kanzure | pythonocc is broken now? wah. | 19:52 |
| kanzure | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'delete_NISDisplay3d' | 19:53 |
| kanzure | oh, I wasn't root when I installed it | 20:01 |
| kanzure | Neat. I have display.DisplayColoredShape() now. | 20:01 |
| fenn | pics or gtfo | 20:10 |
| fenn | no, i dont really care, i just wanted to say that | 20:11 |
| kanzure | had your fill for the day? | 20:11 |
| fenn | i do wish the 'gears' would look sorta like gears, or at least be in the same plane | 20:19 |
| kanzure | they are supposed to be in the same plane. | 20:20 |
| kanzure | they don't look like gears because I don't know enough about gears to make something that reasonably correctly approximates gears | 20:20 |
| kanzure | my idea though is to let users dump in standard gear CAD files in the future | 20:20 |
| kanzure | so that this program will just position them | 20:20 |
| kanzure | and the detail is a function of *their* laziness instead of mine | 20:20 |
| kanzure | (because I'm a rotten bastard?) | 20:20 |
| fenn | to the core | 20:20 |
| kanzure | so I'm using display.DisplayShape(cylinders[3], 'RED') and when I rotate around, sometimes the surface is yellow, sometimes it's red, sometimes it's white | 20:21 |
| kanzure | as if there's a light source being simulated | 20:21 |
| * fenn wonders if cline is ever going to call | 20:21 | |
| kanzure | but then in wireframe mode, the outline is always red (never color changing) | 20:21 |
| kanzure | what's up with this? | 20:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: he's never really called me except to say that he's lost or something | 20:22 |
| kanzure | (or lost looking for a space to park) | 20:23 |
| * kanzure heads down to the imax and to some food | 20:25 | |
| fenn | hmm. having a hard time articulating why i don't like the openwetware 'full name' policy | 20:35 |
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| fenn | "it's not clear how many people we are losing because they are "freaked out" that people can edit their work under a pseudonym, this number may be larger than the number of people who would be upset about having their real name associated with edits on the site." | 21:08 |
| fenn | i must be missing something | 21:09 |
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| kanzure | fenn: the whole point is to let anybody edit | 21:20 |
| kanzure | why would we want to restrict diybio? etc. | 21:20 |
| kanzure | it's very hard to program without documentation | 21:36 |
| kanzure | how do I fix this lighting issue? | 21:36 |
| kanzure | interesting. if I set the color to 'blue' in wireframe mode, and then switch to shaded mode, the 'blue' doesn't actually stick. how weird. | 21:38 |
| kanzure | but then if I go back to wireframe, it's back to blue | 21:38 |
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| -!- kanzure- [n=bryan@66.112.232.220] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 22:09 | |
| kanzure | any ideas on fixing this problem? | 22:30 |
| fenn | can you post the script that exhibits the bug? | 22:30 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/scripts/pythonocc-coloring-error.py | 22:33 |
| fenn | weird | 22:34 |
| kanzure | you see it? | 22:35 |
| kanzure | I think XPDE might be what I'm looking for, but I'm scared of it because I have no idea where the documentation is | 22:35 |
| fenn | bah. no readline on the python shell | 22:35 |
| fenn | hm. ctrl+up-arrow | 22:36 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:36 |
| kanzure | I thought you would know that :) | 22:37 |
| kanzure | there is also some arrow navigation with the popup menus, btw | 22:37 |
| fenn | i like wxwidgets because of its strategic value in destroying microsoft, not because it's intrinsically well designed software | 22:40 |
| kanzure | where'd that comment come from | 22:41 |
| fenn | the weird shell interface | 22:41 |
| kanzure | huh? now I'm confused | 22:43 |
| fenn | nevermind | 22:43 |
| kanzure | the shell implements python. | 22:43 |
| fenn | yeah but it has all sorts of extra features that don't work the way you expect | 22:43 |
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| kanzure | hey drt | 22:53 |
| * kanzure is hanging out with emil tonight | 22:53 | |
| drt | aye, kanzure | 22:53 |
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| -!- drt is now known as DrTread | 22:54 | |
| DrTread | NickServe is unhappy with my use of "drt", so i'm now the more descriptive "DrTread" | 22:54 |
| DrTread | yes, yes, it has capital letters. think of it as shouting my name. | 22:55 |
| fenn | that's totally unprofessional. i demand you use your full name and middle initial, so that others don't feel "freaked out" that an anonymous person could read and respond to their comments | 22:57 |
| kanzure | shouting hurts my dendirtes | 22:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: I don't know if DrTread reads diybio or not | 22:57 |
| kanzure | so he might not get that | 22:57 |
| fenn | probably not | 22:57 |
| DrTread | am so out of teh loopz :( | 22:57 |
| DrTread | i spends to much tymz readn teh lolcatz | 22:58 |
| fenn | DrTread: do you think it's reasonable to require someone to register and post under their full name to an 'open science' wiki? | 22:58 |
| DrTread | Yes. | 22:58 |
| fenn | even if they're not doing 'science' | 22:58 |
| DrTread | so why are they posting to a science wiki? | 22:59 |
| fenn | because some idiot decided to make that the place where development happens | 22:59 |
| DrTread | ah. | 22:59 |
| DrTread | "real" is a funny word in this context. who's doing the checking? | 23:00 |
| fenn | good question, apparently they are too cowardly to use their real name | 23:01 |
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| fenn | science is in quotes because it's not really about science anyway, it's about biological engineering | 23:06 |
| DrTread | hmmm. i have friends who post on rather dangerous chemistry bboards using a nick, but their real name is visible | 23:09 |
| fenn | nothing dangerous, this is pretty mundane stuff | 23:09 |
| fenn | part of what's so maddening is i can't think of any solid reasons either for or against | 23:10 |
| kanzure | DrTread: is it the sciencemadness or rougesci forum? | 23:10 |
| DrTread | as long as ur not making aerosolized anthrax | 23:10 |
| DrTread | sciencemadness | 23:10 |
| kanzure | yep :) | 23:10 |
| kanzure | been there, done that | 23:10 |
| DrTread | uh, ok. :) | 23:10 |
| DrTread | first you get a dead sheep | 23:10 |
| DrTread | and some clay... | 23:10 |
| kanzure | hrm | 23:11 |
| fenn | then catapult the dead sheep into a secret bioweapons bunker, and while they're busy with that you sneak in and steal the anthrax! | 23:11 |
| DrTread | LOL "fechez les vacces" as the french kniggits said | 23:13 |
| kanzure | googlestalk: quantified self meetup | 23:23 |
| kanzure | mark carranza | 23:23 |
| kanzure | http://www.kk.org/quantifiedself/ | 23:23 |
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| kanzure | fenn: I need a scheme to get steve to move down here | 23:31 |
| kanzure | maybe I'll use the XCAF_Doc stuff, though I can't figure out how to display the h_doc object in the interactiveviewer | 23:39 |
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| kanzure | hey cis-action | 23:50 |
| cis-action | hey | 23:56 |
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