| --- Day changed Tue Apr 21 2009 | ||
| DrTread | fenn, get open office! | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | i usually dont bother looking at .ppt because it's either garbled or the content was worthless in the first place | 00:00 |
| DrTread | LULZ True! | 00:00 |
| fenn | and open office is a huge slow pig | 00:00 |
| fenn | but now i have space to install it so i guess i might as well | 00:00 |
| DrTread | i use NeoOffice | 00:01 |
| kanzure- | fenn: liking your hdd? | 00:01 |
| kanzure | pdf: http://heybryan.org/bioreactor/2008-10-28%20Algal%20biomass%20extraction%20presentation.pdf | 00:01 |
| DrTread | slow pig? as opposed to MS Office? | 00:01 |
| fenn | compared to any software i use regularly | 00:02 |
| DrTread | kanzure, the .ppt opened just fine in NeoOffice :) | 00:02 |
| DrTread | right. | 00:02 |
| kanzure- | sorry, I don't understand pumpkin language | 00:02 |
| DrTread | Love the picture of the ridiculously old ferrofilter | 00:03 |
| kanzure- | :) | 00:03 |
| fenn | 500 days to evaporate a liter of water? god i knew academics were slow but that's absurd | 00:04 |
| DrTread | ok, i'm going this time, for sure. ni ni | 00:05 |
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| fenn | by electromagnetic meant http://www.originoil.com/technology/low-cost-oil-extraction.html | 00:06 |
| kanzure- | there's a group here at ut that we're working with that does electromagnetic disruption of algae | 00:07 |
| kanzure- | they apparently did barrels of algae studies back in the day | 00:07 |
| kanzure- | but we're not convinced. | 00:07 |
| fenn | well it seems easy enough | 00:07 |
| fenn | why not just try it | 00:08 |
| kanzure- | truthfully? because the pi is scared of patents | 00:08 |
| kanzure- | or scared of infringing on their patents or something | 00:08 |
| fenn | do you guys actually have any algae to experiment on? | 00:08 |
| kanzure- | yes | 00:08 |
| kanzure- | this is mostly ran by biologists | 00:09 |
| fenn | patents are no reason to not replicate an experiment | 00:09 |
| kanzure- | algae we actually have down. | 00:09 |
| kanzure- | we're also getting stuff from http://utex.org/ | 00:09 |
| kanzure- | I'm supposedly writing an interface to help automate the selection of strains from their database | 00:09 |
| kanzure- | and then a custom database app for our lab to manage all of that information magical goodness | 00:09 |
| kanzure- | such as the nile red fluoroscopy results, etc. | 00:09 |
| kanzure- | and cell counting results and such | 00:09 |
| kanzure- | we're currently working only with one or two strains at the moment though | 00:09 |
| fenn | and if 'back in the day' is more than 20 years the patent is expired by now | 00:10 |
| kanzure- | no, it's "recent" | 00:10 |
| kanzure- | two years? | 00:10 |
| fenn | oh, 'recent' back in the day | 00:10 |
| fenn | really? radionics was hot shit in the 1970's | 00:10 |
| fenn | i'm too lazy to find it, but hulda clarke's zapper is based on some other doctor who found resonant electrical frequencies of common parasites and pathogens; he'd put that electrical signal into the body to 'explode' the cells | 00:15 |
| fenn | when you realize that the average bacterial cell is basically a capacitor it makes some sense | 00:16 |
| fenn | charged up to something like 1.2V with proton gradient across the membrane | 00:16 |
| kanzure- | I should have spent some more time on the math tonight instead of continuing to be feeling sick | 00:17 |
| kanzure- | I wanted to figure out the maximum amount of energy that could be dispensed per cell | 00:17 |
| kanzure- | without going under | 00:17 |
| fenn | well what percentage of bacteria is oil? | 00:18 |
| fenn | erm, algae | 00:18 |
| kanzure- | of the mass? | 00:18 |
| kanzure- | I don't quite know off the top of my head | 00:18 |
| kanzure- | but we've been doing some quantifications of that | 00:18 |
| kanzure- | at least in terms of cell counting | 00:19 |
| fenn | something like 50% right? for GE strains | 00:19 |
| kanzure- | our strains are non-GE and are doing 50% | 00:19 |
| fenn | i dont know if that number is volume or mass | 00:19 |
| kanzure- | 50% lipids :) | 00:19 |
| fenn | or dry mass | 00:19 |
| kanzure- | right. neither do I. but apparently we say that number a lot. | 00:19 |
| fenn | 50% bullshit :P | 00:19 |
| kanzure- | (why is this funded again?) | 00:20 |
| fenn | because they have clout | 00:20 |
| kanzure- | ? | 00:20 |
| fenn | so if it's volume, then let's say the cell diameter is 20 microns | 00:21 |
| kanzure- | 5 to 25 microns is what we're working with (at the moment) | 00:21 |
| fenn | so that's 33 picoliters of volume | 00:21 |
| fenn | so 16 pl of oil | 00:22 |
| fenn | diesel is 39MJ/gal | 00:22 |
| fenn | so you're getting 164 microjoules in oil per cell | 00:23 |
| fenn | consider that to be equivalent to 30 microjoules of electricity after conversion losses | 00:23 |
| fenn | which isnt much | 00:23 |
| fenn | still with me? | 00:24 |
| kanzure- | yes | 00:24 |
| kanzure- | was away for a few moments | 00:24 |
| kanzure- | I have no idea what the conversion efficiency is | 00:24 |
| fenn | what is a typical cell count per liter of nutrient solution? | 00:24 |
| fenn | i figured 20% conversion efficiency | 00:24 |
| kanzure- | gah, I know this one | 00:24 |
| fenn | you have to burn the oil, turn cranks, transform it to a useful voltage, etc | 00:25 |
| fenn | honestly i think biofuel is a terrible waste | 00:25 |
| kanzure- | I don't know what the cell counts are | 00:25 |
| kanzure- | I want to say 1e5 per ml | 00:25 |
| kanzure- | but I think this is wrong | 00:25 |
| kanzure- | so anyway, 1e5 * 164 microjoules = microjoules per milliliter | 00:26 |
| fenn | i hate how i always find these 'lab experiments' which are just a bunch of questions for students | 00:26 |
| fenn | and the questions are what i want to know but i'd have to re-do the damn experiment to get the answer | 00:27 |
| kanzure- | so for 10k gallons, that's about 605 MJ | 00:27 |
| fenn | wait a minute, what number are you after? the amount of oil extracted? the amount of energy returned? | 00:27 |
| kanzure- | um. | 00:27 |
| kanzure- | well, I just want to see if the amount of energy returned is greater than the amount of energy put into the system for extraction/harvesting | 00:28 |
| kanzure- | wait, shouldn't that be impossible? | 00:28 |
| kanzure- | I should be looking at efficiency numbers | 00:28 |
| fenn | ok then you want to consider the energy in a usable form | 00:28 |
| fenn | since you won't be burning diesel directly in order to lyse cells | 00:28 |
| kanzure- | what? | 00:28 |
| kanzure- | I thought you said you already assumed 20% efficiency or something | 00:28 |
| fenn | 605MJ chemical != 605MJ electrical | 00:28 |
| kanzure- | blah, okay, so we magically come up with some microjoule content per each cell in terms of final product | 00:29 |
| fenn | its simple, multiply chemical energy by conversion efficiency | 00:29 |
| fenn | that's the amount of electrical energy available from the algae | 00:29 |
| kanzure- | heh whereas you get 39 MJ/gal for diesel. neat. | 00:29 |
| kanzure- | I figure that it would then be significantly less than 605 MJ | 00:30 |
| kanzure- | (due to non-perfect conversion efficiency) | 00:30 |
| fenn | units '(1e5/ml)*10000gal*(20micron)^3*4pi/3' gal | 00:30 |
| fenn | 33.5 gal of oil | 00:30 |
| fenn | oops, divided by two | 00:31 |
| kanzure- | what's all that about the volume and so on? | 00:31 |
| kanzure- | of the individual algae? | 00:31 |
| fenn | total cell volume | 00:31 |
| fenn | add up the volume of all the individual cells | 00:32 |
| kanzure- | okay? | 00:32 |
| kanzure- | what does that have to do with the 10,000 gal though? | 00:32 |
| kanzure- | the algae is in the 10,000 gal at first | 00:32 |
| fenn | dunno, you picked 10kgal | 00:32 |
| fenn | i assume that's the size of some tank | 00:33 |
| kanzure- | eh, right | 00:33 |
| fenn | i wish units would make it easy to define arbitrary symbols/units like 'cell' | 00:33 |
| kanzure- | I don't like doing math in irc. octave is way better. | 00:33 |
| kanzure- | fenn: wonder if pq lets you define arbitrary units? | 00:33 |
| kanzure- | erm, octave isn't way better | 00:34 |
| kanzure- | I meant to say programming is way better | 00:34 |
| fenn | units lets you define arbitrary units but not at the command line as far as i know | 00:34 |
| fenn | isnt octave a programming language? | 00:34 |
| kanzure- | everything is possible at the CLI with the proper usage of awk, sed and perl | 00:34 |
| kanzure- | yes, but I'm not sure which one it is | 00:34 |
| fenn | it's "not-matlab" | 00:34 |
| kanzure- | ah right | 00:34 |
| kanzure- | "definitely not matlab" | 00:35 |
| fenn | is pq in debian? | 00:35 |
| kanzure- | it's in pypi.python.org | 00:35 |
| * fenn pouts | 00:35 | |
| kanzure- | I'm sure python has a shell interface to pypi that we don't know about | 00:36 |
| kanzure- | since perl has the cpan interface to cpan.org .. just figuring the python peeps would want a piece of that hot sexy action | 00:36 |
| fenn | i'm so sick of incompatible package managers | 00:37 |
| kanzure- | ok. I'm sick and have class tomorrow morning. I'm out. will act like I'm doing math later. | 00:37 |
| fenn | gnite | 00:37 |
| kanzure- | 'alien' is a good attempt. | 00:37 |
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| fenn | d'eaux | 00:41 |
| fenn | import quantities as pq | 00:41 |
| fenn | it's not even called pq | 00:41 |
| fenn | hm it has a stupid custom license, that's probably why it's not in debian | 00:44 |
| kanzure- | "These facts show that protozoa are able to be used as a micro manipulator/actuator" | 00:49 |
| kanzure- | ack, I'm "sleeping" | 00:49 |
| genehacker | WTF? | 00:50 |
| genehacker | how? | 00:50 |
| genehacker | control em with light? | 00:50 |
| genehacker | magnetic fields? | 00:50 |
| kanzure- | close | 00:50 |
| kanzure- | DC electric fields. so almost. | 00:51 |
| genehacker | ah | 00:51 |
| kanzure- | "electrical potential gradient" | 00:51 |
| genehacker | oh I get it | 00:51 |
| genehacker | mess with protons and stuff | 00:51 |
| genehacker | seems I missed some interesting conversatiosn | 00:51 |
| kanzure- | what's your favorite protozoan? | 00:52 |
| genehacker | amoeba | 00:55 |
| genehacker | cuz I can't think of anything else right now | 00:55 |
| genehacker | anything that doe phototaxis is cool too | 00:55 |
| kanzure- | wasn't there something that is attracted to high frequency strobe lights? | 00:56 |
| genehacker | http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=803138 | 00:56 |
| genehacker | dunno | 00:56 |
| genehacker | can't get this page too load looks interesting | 00:56 |
| genehacker | yeah it looks like it | 00:57 |
| genehacker | my PDF reader is broken | 00:58 |
| genehacker | damn | 00:58 |
| fenn | python setup.py develop | 00:58 |
| fenn | This uses setuptools to install a link in your site-packages directory which points to your source directory. This allows you to make changes in the source directory without having to reinstall | 00:58 |
| kanzure- | I was working on a firefox extension earlier today where they force us to manually do that | 00:58 |
| kanzure- | or something | 00:58 |
| kanzure- | rectangular-shaped archae microorganisms http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Thermoproteus | 01:09 |
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| kanzure- | protist information server http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/ with over 81,000 images | 01:15 |
| kanzure- | time to crawl. | 01:15 |
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| kanzure | gah, you guys are so boring. | 04:12 |
| kanzure | can't a guy waking up in the middle of the night at least wake up to schemes for world domination? :/ | 04:13 |
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| kanzure- | hehe | 09:24 |
| kanzure- | Print your AFM | 09:24 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Print%20your%20atomic%20force%20microscope.pdf | 09:25 |
| kanzure- | explores AFM via 3D goo squirtin' | 09:25 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/How%20to%20build%20a%20plastic%20AFM.html | 09:25 |
| kanzure- | er, better link for that last one - http://web.archive.org/web/20080106164837/http://www.biophysik.physik.uni-muenchen.de/PlasticAFM/ | 09:26 |
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| kanzure- | oh my. | 09:30 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/AFM/ | 09:30 |
| kanzure- | STL and SLDPRT models of an AFM scope for SLS printing | 09:30 |
| kanzure- | \o/ | 09:31 |
| kanzure- | I win teh internets | 09:31 |
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| kanzure | "History isn't a sine wave of endless ... patterns. It's ... a helix that brings similar events around in a different orbit." | 12:53 |
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| kanzure | huh. the wall street journal just randomly called me up. | 13:30 |
| kanzure | http://wsj.com/ | 13:35 |
| kanzure | is this prestigous? | 13:35 |
| UtopiahGHML | yes | 13:44 |
| UtopiahGHML | Im sure a full 1st page would bring exposure and potentially lot of money :-# | 13:45 |
| kanzure | huh? why? | 13:45 |
| UtopiahGHML | because people with money read it and they have money because they are used to invest in project that will work, they read it because they are eager to make even more so a well presented project... will tempt them | 13:46 |
| kanzure | why don't I know about this? | 13:47 |
| UtopiahGHML | (should look for a demographic study of the readers though) | 13:47 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://weblogs.jomc.unc.edu/talkingbiznews/?p=3182 | 13:49 |
| kanzure | The Journal subsequently conducted a world-wide investigation of the causes and significance of 9/11, using contacts it had developed during its business coverage of the Arab world. In Kabul, Afghanistan, a Wall Street Journal reporter bought a pair of looted computers which had been used by leaders of Al Qaeda to plan assassinations, chemical and biological attacks, and mundane daily activities. The encrypted files were decrypted and translated.[40] It was during this coverage that Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and killed by terrorists. | 13:52 |
| kanzure | The encrypted files were decrypted and translated.[40] It was during this coverage that Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and killed by terrorists. | 13:52 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wall_Street_Journal | 13:53 |
| UtopiahGHML | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFdItYkCQ5U :\ | 13:54 |
| UtopiahGHML | Kevin Warwick quick talk, video posted 7 avril 2009 | 13:54 |
| kanzure | Captain Cyborg? | 13:55 |
| * kanzure salutes | 13:55 | |
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| kanzure- | hi fenn_ | 14:46 |
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| kanzure- | hey genehacker | 16:01 |
| kanzure- | did you see the AFM SLDPRT files? | 16:02 |
| genehacker | no | 16:02 |
| kanzure- | I posted it to diybio | 16:02 |
| kanzure- | the parts are meant to be SLS'd | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | and then there's a BOM of the screws required and so on | 16:03 |
| genehacker | REALLY? | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | the people that first made it, used it to study DNA | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | yes | 16:03 |
| genehacker | sequence it? | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | well, no. but they were able to do 600 consecutive reads of the molecule. | 16:03 |
| genehacker | how much does it cost? | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | I don't know | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | but there's a BOM | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | and links to the parts on the web | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | so conceivably it can be figured out | 16:03 |
| genehacker | they have SLS machines downstairs | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/AFM/ | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | the PDF is the paper | 16:04 |
| nsh | kanzure, why did the WSJ call you? | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | the HTML page is their BOM and such | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | nsh: interview. | 16:04 |
| nsh | re: diybio? | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/AFM/How%20to%20build%20a%20plastic%20AFM.html | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | diybio and such, yes | 16:04 |
| nsh | ok | 16:04 |
| genehacker | is that a hyperprecision hyperexpensive optical stage I see? | 16:05 |
| genehacker | I think it is | 16:05 |
| kanzure- | well, screw it | 16:05 |
| kanzure- | just use a piezo tweet from the $100 STM design | 16:06 |
| genehacker | no cool images? | 16:08 |
| kanzure- | it's in the paper | 16:09 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Single-molecule%20cut-and-paste%20surface%20assembly.pdf | 16:09 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Print%20your%20atomic%20force%20microscope.pdf | 16:09 |
| genehacker | of molecules? | 16:09 |
| kanzure- | right, they do single molecule shit | 16:09 |
| genehacker | I'm looking at the paper | 16:09 |
| kanzure- | and I don't know why, why not just do big stuff at first? | 16:09 |
| genehacker | could they detect if a molecule is present in air? | 16:10 |
| kanzure- | well, it's air-exposed if that's what you mean | 16:10 |
| genehacker | IE could I detect if lead is present in tuna | 16:10 |
| kanzure- | in the other paper they were assembling structures made out of DNA | 16:11 |
| genehacker | or something like that | 16:11 |
| kanzure- | by hybridizing strands attached to the probe tip | 16:11 |
| kanzure- | which, as it happens, is a good way to transfect cells too | 16:11 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 16:11 |
| kanzure- | there were some recent studies about stabbing bacteria 50 or 60 times with an AFM tip | 16:11 |
| kanzure- | and it survives | 16:11 |
| kanzure- | yeah, in that cut-and-paste paper they have a 10x10 micrometer letter "M" made out of oligos | 16:12 |
| genehacker | oh yeah I found a perfect method for mounting a head mounted display | 16:12 |
| kanzure- | ? | 16:12 |
| genehacker | http://www.metalgearsolid.cz/images/games/mgs4/stroje/solid_eye2.png | 16:13 |
| genehacker | this | 16:13 |
| genehacker | strap to head | 16:13 |
| kanzure- | eh, only if you don't have to adjust its distance in front of your eye | 16:14 |
| kanzure- | also, that's not good for flip-displays where you want to be able to recover the use of your eye rapidly by a hand flipping motion | 16:14 |
| genehacker | make it clear | 16:14 |
| genehacker | ideally you'd have some augmented reality set up | 16:15 |
| kanzure- | "analysis of potential mating trajectories and grasp .." | 16:15 |
| kanzure- | did you see the paper about moving stem cells around in the human body by using magnets? | 16:16 |
| genehacker | read article | 16:16 |
| kanzure- | the paper is from 2005 | 16:16 |
| genehacker | didn't read paper | 16:16 |
| genehacker | no | 16:16 |
| kanzure- | but they are only now getting a business out of it | 16:16 |
| kanzure- | so it's something relatively straightforward | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | you just need to make sure the organism has mechanoreceptors | 16:17 |
| genehacker | huh | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | and then go find yourself the metal microbeads | 16:17 |
| ybit | haven't read it yet: http://www.philosophy.ox.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/3853/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | and then make sure your magnetic field looks right | 16:17 |
| ybit | it's from bostrom | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | hrm | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | I'm not sure how I feel about bostrom writing a brain emulation roadmap | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | he'll probably just rant about philosophy :/ | 16:18 |
| kanzure- | and then cite dennet and call it quits | 16:18 |
| ybit | :P | 16:18 |
| genehacker | you know I was disappointed to learn that the robotic graspers they're using with the robotics lab just use force feedback to pick stuff up | 16:18 |
| genehacker | I want a robot that can assemble anything from parts | 16:19 |
| kanzure- | what? | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | force feedback is useful though | 16:20 |
| genehacker | analysis of mating trajectories? | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | right | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | I was making a joke | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | it was a paper about robotic grasping and such | 16:20 |
| genehacker | oh | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | it was something I was reading for skdb | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | but you laughed when you first heard the title | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | so I thought you were thinking about human mating or something | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | so when you mentioned a HUD, I figured it was an appropriate time to cite that joke | 16:21 |
| genehacker | it does sound funny | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | you know what, nevermind | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | <-- is a terrible comedian | 16:21 |
| genehacker | ah well | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | now then | 16:21 |
| genehacker | hey, are you going to go print that AFM? | 16:22 |
| genehacker | or at least get a quote on it | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | I'll definitely look into getting a quote | 16:22 |
| genehacker | I'd like to figure out how much it cost to 3d print things down there | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | and if they won't do it | 16:22 |
| genehacker | I'm still waiting on my reprap parts | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | then ponoko and shapeways will be happy to | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | there are also a few machined parts involved | 16:23 |
| genehacker | they might be free | 16:23 |
| kanzure- | maybe I can get diybio to give me money for the project? | 16:23 |
| genehacker | anyway, we need to find a tiny cheap bw lcd screen | 16:24 |
| genehacker | to see if we can't make a gene synth | 16:24 |
| kanzure- | what's wrong with the LED capillary gene synthesizer approach? | 16:24 |
| genehacker | show me | 16:24 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/A%20scalable%20method%20for%20multiplex%20LED-controlled%20synthesis%20of%20DNA%20in%20capillaries.pdf | 16:25 |
| genehacker | could we do 600,000 mer with it? | 16:25 |
| kanzure- | no | 16:25 |
| kanzure- | think 40mer | 16:25 |
| kanzure- | in 16 hours | 16:25 |
| genehacker | boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnng | 16:27 |
| kanzure- | how long did it take you to type that | 16:27 |
| * nsh smiles | 16:27 | |
| genehacker | around 5.4 seconds | 16:27 |
| kanzure- | nsh: check this out :) | 16:28 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Direct%20observation%20of%20one-dimensional%20diffusion%20and%20transcription%20by%20Escherichia%20coli%20RNA%20polymerase.pdf.1.jpeg | 16:28 |
| genehacker | any way the deal with maskless array synthesis, is that we can make DNA microarrays for testing if we have cancer or what not | 16:28 |
| kanzure- | what, genetic markers of cancer? | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | have I told you about pinkarmy yet? | 16:29 |
| genehacker | yeah, but I don't recall what they're trying to do | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | we're doing oncolytic viruses to selectively infect cancer cells in the human body | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | (and kill those cells, in particular) | 16:30 |
| genehacker | well the thing is we can put a whole bunch of 80 mer sequences on a chip | 16:30 |
| genehacker | I'm wondering how big an image we want on that chip | 16:31 |
| kanzure- | too bad the pixel density sucks for the 50 inch LCDs | 16:31 |
| genehacker | how big do we want the image on the chip? | 16:31 |
| kanzure- | ok, suppose you have some error rate that you are going to get | 16:32 |
| kanzure- | big enough to make the error rate inconsequential | 16:32 |
| genehacker | I need to know this so I can use some optic formulas to calculate what lenses we'd need and if this is feasible | 16:32 |
| genehacker | ah well I have to go | 16:32 |
| fenn_ | wow this toy is $94 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7591575275.html | 16:49 |
| -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn | 16:49 | |
| fenn | that's a lot of hardware | 16:50 |
| fenn | 17 servos, a gyro, and a tiny linux SBC | 16:51 |
| fenn | i can't even get a gyro for under $40 | 16:52 |
| kanzure- | http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/ultrasound-imaging-now-possible-smartphone-20461.html | 17:21 |
| kanzure- | oh god it runs windows :( | 17:22 |
| kanzure- | laser lipolysis | 17:25 |
| kanzure- | huh | 17:25 |
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| kanzure- | this is a neat organism: http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/PDB2/PCD4710/htmls/09.html | 17:45 |
| kanzure- | or this: http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/PDB2/PCD4709/htmls/81.html | 17:45 |
| kanzure- | Micrasterias thomasiana | 17:47 |
| kanzure- | http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/PDB/Images/Chlorophyta/Micrasterias/thomasiana/sp_03.html | 17:47 |
| kanzure- | http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/PDB2/PCD4710/htmls/28.html | 17:48 |
| * fenn wonders if kanzure has found a new hobby | 17:48 | |
| kanzure- | shape :) | 17:50 |
| fenn | pokemon | 17:52 |
| kanzure- | yeah :( | 17:52 |
| * kanzure- has been coughing up a lung. it's painful. | 17:55 | |
| xp_prg | what is that Kanzure? | 17:58 |
| kanzure- | what is what? | 18:00 |
| ybit | a lung, duh! | 18:00 |
| xp_prg | that picutre 28.html | 18:00 |
| kanzure- | I think it's Micrasteri thomasiana | 18:00 |
| xp_prg | it makes a shape, I wish I understood how it knew what shape to make | 18:01 |
| kanzure- | crescentin | 18:01 |
| kanzure- | it's a protein | 18:01 |
| kanzure- | look it up | 18:01 |
| kanzure- | what's electrowetting? is it really just the change in contact angle due to an electric potential? | 18:01 |
| kanzure- | xp_prg: see this. http://heybryan.org/books/papers/Bacterial%20cell%20curvature%20through%20mechanical%20control%20of%20cell%20growth.pdf | 18:02 |
| xp_prg | crescentin causes shape to occur? | 18:02 |
| ybit | project polymath? funny that their first course is on web design | 18:03 |
| ybit | good idea, needs a little tuning though | 18:03 |
| kanzure- | project polymath hasn't done anything | 18:03 |
| kanzure- | I contacted them and stalked them down, but nothing happened | 18:03 |
| kanzure- | xp_prg: not really | 18:03 |
| xp_prg | kanzure well what does? | 18:04 |
| kanzure- | but it's a way to force them to change shape | 18:04 |
| fenn | huh. there's youre AFM photodiode strip http://www.taosinc.com/productdetail.aspx?product=18 | 18:04 |
| fenn | for $10 | 18:04 |
| fenn | supposedly | 18:04 |
| kanzure- | 34 pixel zones? not ba | 18:11 |
| kanzure- | *ad | 18:12 |
| kanzure- | *bad | 18:12 |
| kanzure- | I don't think that means what I think it means though | 18:12 |
| ybit | i am failing to see how we will ever transfer our gray matter to another substrate or at even create onto and retreive memory from bmi. help me please. | 18:12 |
| * ybit blushes | 18:12 | |
| kanzure- | http://microfluidics.ee.duke.edu/ | 18:13 |
| ybit | -at | 18:13 |
| kanzure- | ybit: bmi would be a way to interface with computers | 18:13 |
| kanzure- | not necessarily have correlates of 'memory' | 18:13 |
| kanzure- | I don't know what 'memory' is | 18:13 |
| kanzure- | however, if you want to be occupied for a while, look up the artificial hippocampus brain implants | 18:13 |
| ybit | i kind of have this feeling my brain is trapped until cloned, at which point it isn't even 'mine' | 18:15 |
| kanzure- | hrm. so droplets can be controlled under direct electric control? | 18:15 |
| ybit | anywho, off to read | 18:15 |
| ybit | (cloned in the sense of being emulated) | 18:16 |
| kanzure- | lots of neat videos | 18:16 |
| fenn | ybit: kurzweil gets around this with the concept of 'prosthetics' | 18:17 |
| fenn | where more and more of you gets vested in the prosthetics as a gradual process until the brain itself no longer matters | 18:18 |
| kanzure- | so, I've been lowering my expectations or something | 18:18 |
| kanzure- | I mean, not in a degrading way, but in the sense that it'd be cool to just be able to somehow get something similar to me spawned | 18:19 |
| kanzure- | even in the sense of genetic cloning | 18:19 |
| kanzure- | now, the brain would be nice to be able to copy | 18:19 |
| fenn | ybit: typical example is a nanobot that attaches itself to a neuron and takes over its function | 18:19 |
| kanzure- | but I don't think I'm going to become depressed if I can't figure it out .. | 18:19 |
| ybit | fenn: right, gradual replacement. i'll have to look into this, but i'm failing to see how exactly parts are going to be replaced | 18:19 |
| kanzure- | as long as my toolchain keeps me in the loop | 18:19 |
| ybit | fenn: oh. | 18:19 |
| kanzure- | ybit: this is also what the "godseed" is about | 18:20 |
| ybit | fenn: i forgot about that. | 18:20 |
| fenn | kanzure-: you're too young to be thinking about having kids | 18:20 |
| ybit | :P | 18:21 |
| ybit | i seem to recall a problem whereby the nanobot has a difficult time copying the exact state of the neuron | 18:22 |
| kanzure- | what information is worth copying? | 18:22 |
| kanzure- | this is kind of why you should be around to fine tune the systems | 18:22 |
| ybit | how philisophical is that question? | 18:23 |
| kanzure- | hrm | 18:23 |
| kanzure- | state = information | 18:23 |
| kanzure- | that's what I meant | 18:23 |
| kanzure- | what states are worth copying? I mean, what variables are you talking about? | 18:23 |
| fenn | won't linking to http://heybryan.org/books/papers/AFM/ in an email cause google to spider your paper collection? | 18:23 |
| kanzure- | the fact that there's some random protein attached to some random neuronal membrane somewhere in your prefrontal cortex? | 18:23 |
| kanzure- | yes | 18:23 |
| kanzure- | fenn: but actually I'm more worried about /books/ more than /books/papers/ | 18:23 |
| ybit | i seem to recall a lot of information concerning connections are stored in each neuron | 18:24 |
| kanzure- | and I figure that /books/ won't be indexed because of how slowly it loads | 18:24 |
| fenn | kanzure-: but it's all the same tree | 18:24 |
| ybit | are/being | 18:24 |
| kanzure- | fenn: I know :( | 18:24 |
| fenn | then why did you do that? | 18:24 |
| kanzure- | maybe this is bad, I don't know | 18:24 |
| kanzure- | because because | 18:24 |
| kanzure- | blah | 18:24 |
| kanzure- | I don't want to set up robots.txt | 18:24 |
| * kanzure- goes to fix | 18:24 | |
| * ybit is off to read | 18:25 | |
| kanzure- | okay. fixed. | 18:26 |
| kanzure- | hm | 18:27 |
| kanzure- | http://www.google.com/search?q=heybryan.org+books+papers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a | 18:28 |
| kanzure- | or more appropriately I guess: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&hs=SiP&num=100&q=site%3Aheybryan.org+inurl%3Apapers&btnG=Search | 18:28 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/?C=M;O=D | 18:38 |
| kanzure- | added two papers on the brainbow mice | 18:38 |
| kanzure- | the recombinant gfp stuff | 18:38 |
| * fenn mumbles something about selling USB AFM's on ebay | 18:41 | |
| kanzure- | interesting idea | 18:42 |
| kanzure- | I searched ebay the other day and didn't see anything re: AFMs | 18:42 |
| kanzure- | how much do you think they would go for? | 18:42 |
| kanzure- | http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=scanning+electron+microscope&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_odkw=atomic+force+AFM&_osacat=0 | 18:43 |
| kanzure- | oh fuck | 18:43 |
| kanzure- | $110k for a SEM | 18:43 |
| genehacker | hahaha bacterial pokemon | 18:50 |
| genehacker | oh wait protist | 18:50 |
| genehacker | oh yeah, my favorite protist is slime mold | 18:50 |
| genehacker | they swarm | 18:51 |
| ybit | what to focus on: aubrey's 7 deadly things or gradual uploading, hmm... | 18:51 |
| genehacker | well let's make a nanobot first | 18:52 |
| genehacker | also what freaks me out is memory loss | 18:52 |
| ybit | i don't mind losing some memory if i'm going to be able to store a lot more than i currently can. i'm not fine with meory loss now, but it occurs often | 18:54 |
| genehacker | no I mean in the long run | 18:54 |
| genehacker | the LONG run | 18:54 |
| ybit | explain please | 18:54 |
| kanzure- | ybit: first step is figuring out what memory is | 18:54 |
| genehacker | thousands of years | 18:54 |
| kanzure- | or if you're just bullshitting yourself :/ | 18:54 |
| ybit | genehacker: i'm not asking about the how long 'long' is :P | 18:55 |
| ybit | kanzure, true, hmm | 18:55 |
| genehacker | ah well | 18:55 |
| genehacker | you know what would be great? | 18:56 |
| ybit | (^ rhetorical i'm guessing) | 18:56 |
| genehacker | if matter was infinitely divisible | 18:56 |
| fenn | ybit: gradual uploading has a higher overal redundancy in the end.. with 'ageless pseudo-immortality' you can still get run over by a truck | 18:56 |
| kanzure- | unfortunately not | 18:56 |
| kanzure- | gene doesn't ask rhetorical questions | 18:56 |
| kanzure- | even though they are supposed to be rhetorical | 18:56 |
| fenn | genehacker: but it is, i swear! | 18:57 |
| genehacker | if matter was infinitely divisible, you could make a smaller and smaller computer that was more power yet takes less energy | 18:57 |
| kanzure- | hm. so brainbow was done in 2007? | 18:57 |
| kanzure- | time flies. | 18:57 |
| kanzure- | why hasn't anyway copied brainbow yet? | 18:58 |
| ybit | fenn: it would only be done to 'stay alive' until this 'upload' is complete.. | 18:58 |
| fenn | wow that's cool | 18:58 |
| kanzure- | I want more pretty pictures | 18:58 |
| kanzure- | fenn: did you see the paper? | 18:58 |
| fenn | no | 18:58 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers//Transgenic%20strategies%20for%20combinatorial%20expression%20of%20fluorescent%20proteins%20in%20the%20nervous%20system.pdf | 18:58 |
| kanzure- | followup / related paper- http://heybryan.org/books/papers//A%20technicolour%20approach%20to%20the%20connectome.pdf | 18:59 |
| genehacker | eventually the energy needed for computation approaches zero... | 18:59 |
| kanzure- | really beautiful. I read it a few years ago, but didn't have it on the server | 18:59 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: you saw brainbow too, right? | 18:59 |
| genehacker | I believe so | 18:59 |
| fenn | can they do micro MRI yet? i'm sure i've heard about it but i forget | 18:59 |
| kanzure- | erm, something about enhanced imaging by sticking in metal electrodes | 19:00 |
| fenn | genehacker: you're wrong about that.. there's a minimum 'bit erasure energy' | 19:00 |
| kanzure- | but really, that paper has the most beautiful images I've ever seen in a paper | 19:00 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 19:00 |
| kanzure- | fenn: didn't anders come up with a number for that? | 19:00 |
| genehacker | interesting | 19:00 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: it's in his paper about supercomputing superobjects | 19:00 |
| kanzure- | maximum computation per some space volume or something | 19:00 |
| fenn | i dont think anders came up with it, he just examined the consequences | 19:00 |
| kanzure- | written by Anders Sandberg | 19:00 |
| genehacker | I'm saying if matter was infinitely divisible | 19:00 |
| kanzure- | oh. | 19:00 |
| genehacker | but it isn't | 19:00 |
| kanzure- | yay for images: http://images.google.com/images?q=brainbow&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi | 19:00 |
| genehacker | micro mri as in about millimeter features | 19:01 |
| fenn | no as in micro meter features | 19:01 |
| genehacker | MRI sux :( | 19:01 |
| fenn | you're just jealous | 19:01 |
| genehacker | MRI really only looks at blood vessels from what I hear | 19:02 |
| genehacker | we really need a doping agent that hooks up to neurons to see them | 19:02 |
| fenn | there's plenty of protons in a neuron | 19:03 |
| genehacker | or something like that | 19:03 |
| kanzure- | blah. firefox crashed. now I remember why I don't use firefox. | 19:03 |
| genehacker | yeah there's plenty of protons in everything else too | 19:05 |
| fenn | i think what you'd really want to see is sodium or calcium | 19:07 |
| fenn | but i dont think those have a nuclear magnetic field | 19:07 |
| genehacker | yup | 19:09 |
| genehacker | you do that with a laser unfortunately | 19:09 |
| fenn | do what | 19:09 |
| fenn | why are all these brainbow images so low rez | 19:10 |
| kanzure- | hrm. | 19:12 |
| fenn | a protein called aequorin releases blue light upon binding with calcium. | 19:13 |
| kanzure- | images: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/brainbow/ | 19:13 |
| kanzure- | I like this one: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/brainbow/brainbow2.jpg | 19:16 |
| fenn | i want a gigapan :( | 19:16 |
| kanzure- | mouse brain atlas is kinda like that | 19:16 |
| kanzure- | although the images don't overlap because they are individual slices | 19:16 |
| kanzure- | so I've been working on a firefox extension while I've been sick | 19:33 |
| kanzure- | to help me search google scholar | 19:33 |
| kanzure- | basically it keeps track of search queries that have been sent to google scholar | 19:33 |
| kanzure- | it's kinda my magical device thingy to keep track of query permutations that you've already exhausted | 19:33 |
| kanzure- | just need an annoying way to notify you that you're running the same search again. hrm. | 19:33 |
| kanzure- | I'm thinking of a sidebar that just lists similar queries that you've run. | 19:33 |
| fenn | does google alerts cover google scholar? | 19:33 |
| kanzure- | not to my knowledge | 19:34 |
| kanzure- | also, how does one set up google alerts for 35,000 previously executed queries? | 19:34 |
| fenn | with a bot | 19:34 |
| fenn | do you have those 35k queries? | 19:34 |
| kanzure- | google doesn't like bots (ironically). | 19:34 |
| kanzure- | no :( | 19:34 |
| kanzure- | it's stored on their servers | 19:34 |
| kanzure- | I have access to the pages, but they don't like me going through the list | 19:35 |
| fenn | how do you access that? | 19:35 |
| kanzure- | I enabled a "track my searches" button somewhere | 19:36 |
| fenn | this cnc design looks eminently replicable with raw materials input http://joescnc.com/themachines-06.php | 19:37 |
| genehacker | damn fenn | 19:39 |
| genehacker | that looks pretty nice | 19:39 |
| fenn | "Plans for the Joe's 06 CNC Router have and always will be open source and FREE." | 19:39 |
| fenn | bah | 19:42 |
| fenn | "By downloading these plans you are agreeing to use them for personal use ONLY! not to be used in any reproduction of the machine or parts other than personal use without my expressed permission." | 19:42 |
| fenn | makes me want to call up shonen bat | 19:43 |
| kanzure- | " | 19:43 |
| kanzure- | " | 19:43 |
| kanzure- | Genetically encoded fluorescent sensors of membrane potential | 19:43 |
| kanzure- | ah, voltage-sensitive dyes | 19:44 |
| kanzure- | neat. | 19:44 |
| kanzure- | so, it would be neat to infect yourself with a bacteriophage that adds in that fluorescent probe | 19:52 |
| kanzure- | you'd be the "glowing brain" superhero guy | 19:52 |
| fenn | you mean supervillain guy | 19:59 |
| genehacker | indeed | 20:01 |
| kanzure- | just because I have a beard doesn't make me a supervillain | 20:05 |
| fenn | yes it does | 20:05 |
| fenn | well, a villain at least | 20:05 |
| fenn | certainly not a superhero - how many superheroes have beards? none | 20:06 |
| kanzure- | vegeta? | 20:07 |
| fenn | you mean prince vegeta, intergalactic supervillain? | 20:07 |
| fenn | he has a beard? | 20:07 |
| fenn | i never got that far | 20:08 |
| kanzure- | really? | 20:09 |
| kanzure- | do you want to watch it with me sometime? i'm only slightly joking | 20:09 |
| kanzure- | I guess I mean do you want the download links | 20:09 |
| fenn | "How does Superman shave? Surely he has a beard of steel?" | 20:09 |
| fenn | no, i think i've seen enough dragonball | 20:09 |
| fenn | green arrow had a beard, though he always struck me as somewhat 'on the edge' | 20:10 |
| kanzure- | tony stark | 20:25 |
| fenn | villain | 20:25 |
| kanzure- | wtf? | 20:26 |
| fenn | superheroes are imbued with their powers by god | 20:26 |
| fenn | tony stark was a violent capitalist oppressor | 20:26 |
| kanzure- | you're not being fun. | 20:30 |
| kanzure- | "Where's the fire! I always found that expression interesting especially since my lab assistant was killed in a fire." | 20:32 |
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| -!- fenn [n=fenn@cpe-72-177-52-180.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] | 20:41 | |
| kanzure- | all of these papers suck. I want to find fancy images of in vivo stuff. | 20:41 |
| -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn | 20:42 | |
| kanzure- | but nobody publishes images because it costs an arm and a leg | 20:42 |
| kanzure- | http://www.stemcellschina.com/ | 20:51 |
| fenn | hm. i dd'd a 1GB image to my 512MB SD card and now linux swears it's a 1GB disk | 21:00 |
| wrldpc | lol@$110K SEM | 21:06 |
| wrldpc | as soon as I get a lot of money I'll buy you all a bunch of stuff. | 21:06 |
| wrldpc | including the sem. | 21:06 |
| wrldpc | something better. | 21:06 |
| wrldpc | bbiab | 21:06 |
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| kanzure- | "Regulating gene expression with light-activated oligonucleotides." bwahah | 21:08 |
| kanzure- | oh. azobenzene. | 21:11 |
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| DrTread | evening. | 21:18 |
| kanzure- | Good evening. | 21:18 |
| kanzure- | DrTread, did you see the AFM CAD files I posted? | 21:18 |
| DrTread | no. on heybeiab? | 21:19 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/AFM/ | 21:19 |
| DrTread | make that heybrian | 21:19 |
| kanzure- | also, I was surprised to learn today that fenn had never seen brainbow- so just in case you've been missing out- | 21:19 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/books/papers/brainbow/ | 21:19 |
| DrTread | out of the loop, eh? | 21:20 |
| fenn | neurology's not my thing | 21:20 |
| kanzure- | wait, what? | 21:20 |
| kanzure- | brains? | 21:21 |
| DrTread | I am greedily reading Theodore Gray's new book | 21:22 |
| kanzure- | ooh. "Gene silencing in mammalian cells using light-activated antisense agents" | 21:25 |
| DrTread | Oooh cool! is there a gene for stupidity? | 21:25 |
| kanzure- | " | 21:25 |
| kanzure- | " | 21:25 |
| kanzure- | Restriction enzyme-free mutagenesis via the light regulation of DNA polymerization | 21:25 |
| kanzure- | they must be tapping into our brains again | 21:26 |
| kanzure- | light-activation of gene function in mammalian cells via ribozymes | 21:30 |
| kanzure- | neat too | 21:30 |
| DrTread | I received a reply from lfilip. | 21:31 |
| DrTread | I'll go for a tour on thurs or Fri. | 21:32 |
| kanzure- | you sent email? tis good | 21:33 |
| DrTread | yes. you told me to, Brain. | 21:34 |
| DrTread | I mean Bryan. :-) | 21:34 |
| kanzure- | wonder if photolabile DNA synthesis is capable of adding a photocaging group on to the oligos | 21:35 |
| kanzure- | http://angosypublishing.com/ supposedly a free 3D body thingy | 21:42 |
| kanzure- | ah, http://visiblebody.com/ | 21:42 |
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| kanzure- | infrasound? | 23:31 |
| kanzure- | "Mental abilities of male relatives of psychotic patients" | 23:34 |
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| kanzure- | "Relation of mathematical ability to psychosis" | 23:41 |
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