| --- Day changed Fri May 15 2009 | ||
| fenn | "The population increases, the wilderness decreases. Already people propose to put glittering solar power collectors all over perfectly good deserts, instead of in orbit, as God intended." | 01:30 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | amen | 01:30 |
| fenn | i'm surprised i dont have this book by pournelle | 01:31 |
| any36007168 | err, if the collectors are in orbit, won't people be saying the microwave antennas on earth, in the perfectly good deserts, irradiating all god's critters, is also bad? | 01:41 |
| fenn | no because most of the power will be used in orbit anyway | 01:43 |
| fenn | the actual size of the antenna is not that big in the grand scheme of things | 01:43 |
| fenn | compared to what would be needed for the same area covered with solar collectors | 01:44 |
| fenn | erm, same power output of solar collectors | 01:44 |
| any36007168 | but the power hitting the ground from the space collector is larger than the sunlight hitting the ground | 01:44 |
| any36007168 | it's also likely more bioactive | 01:44 |
| fenn | why do you say that? | 01:45 |
| any36007168 | microwaves | 01:45 |
| fenn | are you made up of microwave antennae? | 01:45 |
| any36007168 | leaves block sunshine and offer shade, microwaves will go thru the leaves and enter the aminals under | 01:45 |
| any36007168 | no, but neither is the lasagna in the nukebox atm | 01:46 |
| fenn | keep in mind the frequency would be tuned for minimal absorption by water, since there's so much water vapor in the atmosphere already | 01:46 |
| fenn | the antenna grid would 'block' the microwaves and cause 'shade' underneath | 01:46 |
| fenn | or it's not a very good antenna | 01:46 |
| any36007168 | and if it is that good, someone will surely complain the birds cannot fly thru it | 01:47 |
| any36007168 | or they get fried sitting on it | 01:47 |
| fenn | anyway all this was thoroughly thrashed back in the 70's so i suggest looking at old arguments if you really care | 01:47 |
| any36007168 | i don't, i say install thermal solar | 01:47 |
| fenn | and cover all those perfectly good deserts?? | 01:47 |
| any36007168 | put a ring around cities in the south, especially near theocean, and use sea water to cool the system, making fresh water as a byproduct | 01:48 |
| fenn | uh, what? | 01:48 |
| fenn | how is that even remotely related to thermal solar? | 01:48 |
| any36007168 | there's enough power plants near cities now, just feed them 900F oil during the day to make power with | 01:48 |
| any36007168 | thermal solar, gets hot, the cold side needs cooling, the "waste" heat can evaporate water, condenced water is unsalty | 01:49 |
| fenn | ok | 01:49 |
| fenn | why a ring around the city? | 01:49 |
| any36007168 | Alabama, Fla, and Ga are fighting for river water already, and last yr all 3 has water rationing | 01:50 |
| fenn | that's because they dump most of it on the ground | 01:50 |
| fenn | anyway, one problem at a time | 01:50 |
| any36007168 | a ring saves distribution costs and could coincide with some plans to make more superloop interstates around the cities | 01:51 |
| any36007168 | there's 3 coal fired power plants around Bham, a ring intersecting them could convert them to hybrid plants | 01:51 |
| fenn | solar power doesn't need transporation infrastructure nearby | 01:53 |
| any36007168 | a ring around Atl would hit Norcross, Roswell, Marietta, Douglasville, all big electricity users | 01:53 |
| fenn | neither does electricity distribution | 01:53 |
| any36007168 | i know it doesn't, but Bham and Atl both have been tlaking about larger loops of interstates away from the cities themselves | 01:53 |
| fenn | damn i had this great image of the area of solar collectors needed to power the US, superimposed on the map of the US | 01:54 |
| any36007168 | well, electricity distribution is suffering some, it seems, else there wouldn't be money in the fed budget for building more electricical grids | 01:54 |
| any36007168 | that's another thing, if you put all the solar collectors in NM, one storm could kill the entire output | 01:55 |
| fenn | sure, more mcmansions have been built in the last 20 years than the previous century combined | 01:55 |
| any36007168 | so spreading them out makes some sense | 01:55 |
| fenn | diversification of energy sources makes more sense | 01:55 |
| any36007168 | ok | 01:56 |
| fenn | i mean at least it'll be windy during a nuclear winter :P | 01:56 |
| any36007168 | question: does wind ever pay for itself at the multimegawatt levels they instal windmills at now? | 01:56 |
| fenn | depends what you mean 'pay for itself' | 01:56 |
| fenn | it certainly doesn't cost more to build the windmill than the energy it generates is worth | 01:57 |
| any36007168 | generate enough electricity at wholesale rates to cover the installation and capital costs, and maintenance | 01:57 |
| any36007168 | $millions for one tower that's 2 megawatts peak? | 01:57 |
| fenn | coal isnt free either | 01:58 |
| any36007168 | umm,, did someone say it waS? | 01:58 |
| fenn | there's a tradeoff, windmills are more up front | 01:58 |
| any36007168 | but you say there's proof somewhere they do pay for themselves? | 01:59 |
| fenn | coal or natural gas costs money every MWh | 01:59 |
| fenn | no, i bet the numbers are really confused due to all the various subsidies to both types of power generation | 01:59 |
| any36007168 | T Boone Pickens halted his plans for a huge wind farm last yr | 01:59 |
| fenn | i'm sure windmills are more subsidised but still, if there were no other option it wouldn't be all that bad | 01:59 |
| fenn | and the way we make windmills currently is stupid | 02:00 |
| any36007168 | yeas, we basicallyimport them | 02:00 |
| fenn | see all the various kite proposals for instance | 02:00 |
| fenn | http://imagebin.org/49129 | 02:13 |
| fenn | previously mentioned "area superimposed on map" diagram | 02:14 |
| fenn | image from http://www.coolearthsolar.com/CoolEarth_SP2006.pdf | 02:14 |
| fenn | i think those guys have a pretty good design btw | 02:15 |
| fenn | there was another collector design which was just a giant sphere with a plane of mylar through it | 02:17 |
| fenn | a pressure differential caused the mylar to curve | 02:17 |
| any36007168 | has the mylar been tested? i tried it here on earth, so did DOE, and it failed both of us | 02:18 |
| any36007168 | err, re: http://imagebin.org/49129 ; lets not generate 100% of the entire earth's power | 02:19 |
| any36007168 | what does bother me a lot, is the air pollution is increasing at a rate making terrestrial solar power real iffy | 02:20 |
| fenn | on earth? | 02:22 |
| any36007168 | yeas? | 02:22 |
| fenn | it costs too much to launch solar collectors so the idea is to mine aluminum from the moon | 02:22 |
| fenn | then you have big arrays of aluminum foil | 02:22 |
| fenn | these focus on silicon collectors | 02:23 |
| any36007168 | silicon can overheat badly in space, unles you found a great heat radiator for them? | 02:23 |
| any36007168 | afaik, the space station has no focussing solar arrays | 02:23 |
| any36007168 | woah, : In a report Wednesday, the Paris-based International Energy Agency estimates new electronic gadgets will triple their energy consumption by 2030 to 1,700 terawatt hours, the equivalent of today's home electricity consumption of the United States and Japan combined. | 02:24 |
| any36007168 | The world would have to build around 200 new nuclear power plants just to power all the TVs, iPods, PCs and other home electronics expected to be plugged in by 2030 | 02:24 |
| any36007168 | sounds like someone needs to check their math | 02:25 |
| any36007168 | From: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/print?id=7576544 | 02:25 |
| genehacker | don't you mean build solar cells on the moon and mass driver them to earth | 02:26 |
| genehacker | I think high altitude windpower might be the answer | 02:27 |
| any36007168 | the jet stream wanders too much to harness | 02:27 |
| genehacker | but when you get it | 02:27 |
| genehacker | you can get as much as a decent coal plant | 02:28 |
| genehacker | in less area than a decent coal plant, if you you just consider the wind turbine | 02:28 |
| genehacker | or let me go check those calculations again | 02:28 |
| genehacker | http://bolonkin.narod.ru/Article_Wind_Energy_English.htm | 02:29 |
| genehacker | High speed air Darreus rotor at an altitude 1 km (fig.4) | 02:32 |
| genehacker | Let us consider a rotor having the diameter of 100 m, a length of 200 m (work area is 20,000 sq.m). When the wind speed at an altitude H=10 m is V =6 m/s, then at an altitude H = 1000 m it is 13 m/s. The full wind power is 13,46 MW. Let us take the efficiency coefficient 0.35, then the power of the Installation will be N = 4.7 MW. The change of power from wind speed is: V = 5 m/s, N =... | 02:32 |
| genehacker | ...2.73 MW; V = 6 m/s, N = 4.7 MW; V = 7 m/s, N = 7.5 MW; V = 8 m/s, N = 11.4 MW; V = 9m/s, N = 15.9 MW; V = 10 m/s, N = 21.8 MW. | 02:32 |
| genehacker | At an altitude of H = 13 km with an air density 0.267 and wind speed V = 40 m/s, the given installation will produce power N = 300 MW. | 02:32 |
| any36007168 | 300MW is a small coal plant | 02:33 |
| genehacker | 300 MW is about how much a decent coal plant | 02:33 |
| genehacker | or a large one | 02:33 |
| genehacker | I forgot | 02:33 |
| any36007168 | decently to small | 02:33 |
| any36007168 | large is 750MW and up | 02:34 |
| genehacker | oh | 02:34 |
| kanzure | what have I missed? | 02:34 |
| genehacker | well still 300 MW of wind power | 02:34 |
| genehacker | hey what was that video you sent me the other day? | 02:34 |
| any36007168 | at the price of a 13km ! | 02:35 |
| any36007168 | tower | 02:35 |
| genehacker | yeah about that | 02:35 |
| genehacker | the author of this paper has a couple designs for towers to space | 02:35 |
| any36007168 | 2 BIG problems with http://www.coolearthsolar.com/technology , 1) at 200 suns, the solar cell won;t last, 2) in sunlight the plastic balloon it's in won't last even one summer | 02:36 |
| genehacker | some of which don't need carbon nanotubes | 02:36 |
| genehacker | well it is being cooled | 02:36 |
| any36007168 | i tried a solar reflector using mylar rated for green houses, it was powdered before summer was ended | 02:37 |
| genehacker | what was powder? | 02:37 |
| any36007168 | ingredients | 02:37 |
| genehacker | how did it powder? | 02:37 |
| any36007168 | the UV in sunlight | 02:38 |
| genehacker | you can get more UV resistant film | 02:38 |
| any36007168 | it didn't get hot till it was powdering, it powdered first from the UV before heat temperatures rose | 02:38 |
| genehacker | what do you mean powdered? | 02:39 |
| any36007168 | this was supposed to be worth 2 yrs in full sunlight | 02:39 |
| genehacker | explain what happened to the mylar | 02:39 |
| any36007168 | powdered: converted from stable film to blow-in-the-breeze-talc-looking-stuff | 02:39 |
| genehacker | was this clear mylar? | 02:40 |
| genehacker | was it outdoor rated mylar? | 02:40 |
| any36007168 | clear with reflective al backing | 02:40 |
| any36007168 | outdoor and green\house rated | 02:40 |
| any36007168 | said to last 2 yrs, or forever indoors | 02:41 |
| genehacker | perhaps try putting the aluminium coated side so it's the only one exposed in the sun | 02:41 |
| genehacker | yeah indoors | 02:41 |
| any36007168 | said to last 2 yrs, or forever indoors | 02:41 |
| any36007168 | it did not last even one summer | 02:41 |
| genehacker | indoors? | 02:41 |
| any36007168 | outdoors where it was good for 2 yrs | 02:42 |
| any36007168 | damn, look at the facts i listed for you repeatedly | 02:42 |
| genehacker | perhaps you should try the stuff they want to use for inflatable space structures | 02:42 |
| genehacker | oh | 02:42 |
| any36007168 | DOE had no better luck than i did | 02:42 |
| genehacker | course I think some of the space stuff uses exotic UV cure plastics | 02:43 |
| fenn | regular polyethylene film will self destruct in sunlight in about 2 months | 02:43 |
| genehacker | hmmm... so that's what happened to my balloon | 02:44 |
| fenn | there are additives (hindered amine light stabilizers) you can use to prevent the reaction from spreading | 02:44 |
| fenn | you can also add UV-absorbing dyes, but then you lose that energy | 02:44 |
| genehacker | built a solar powered balloon, did some tests on it, wind picked up, and now it could be in China for all I care | 02:45 |
| fenn | there are also other materials like tefzel which simply dont degrade in sunlight | 02:45 |
| genehacker | what about graphene? | 02:45 |
| fenn | but they're 400x more expensive (migt not matter in the long run though) | 02:45 |
| genehacker | sure that doesn't degrade in sunlight | 02:45 |
| fenn | graphene is science fiction at this point | 02:45 |
| fenn | 400x was referring to tefzel | 02:46 |
| fenn | vs polyethylene | 02:46 |
| genehacker | well some people down here made a centimeter sized patch of the stuff | 02:46 |
| fenn | good for them | 02:46 |
| fenn | i have no idea what the bulk properties of graphene are like | 02:46 |
| genehacker | I want bigger patches though... | 02:46 |
| fenn | but it really sounds stupid to try to use it for a balloon | 02:46 |
| genehacker | stupid? | 02:46 |
| fenn | just because you can | 02:47 |
| genehacker | it's really really really strong and really really light | 02:47 |
| fenn | is it really really really cheap and flexible and transparent and self cleaning and UV resistant? | 02:47 |
| fenn | and "environmentally friendly" | 02:47 |
| genehacker | no, why? | 02:48 |
| fenn | because those are the imporant properties when you're making vast solar collector arrays | 02:48 |
| genehacker | why flexible? | 02:48 |
| fenn | because | 02:48 |
| genehacker | electrospun something something woven semiconductor nanofibers? | 02:49 |
| fenn | why dont you go learn about real engineering | 02:50 |
| genehacker | doing that | 02:51 |
| nsh | http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/05/ribonucleotides/ | 02:52 |
| nsh | RNA abiogenesis achieved | 02:52 |
| genehacker | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TXF-4DXBTFM-4&_user=108429&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000059713&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=108429&md5=f599c457b63910c26801206c8ed9bce9 | 02:52 |
| genehacker | yeah heard about that | 02:52 |
| fenn | i really doubt RNA was the first replicating molcule | 02:53 |
| kanzure | ellington does too. | 02:53 |
| genehacker | hey can you make biosensors with aptamers? | 02:54 |
| kanzure | uh, hell yes? | 02:54 |
| nsh | it occurs to me that it's probably a case of descent in scale | 02:54 |
| fenn | how do you select for specificity? | 02:54 |
| kanzure | light | 02:55 |
| nsh | alternatively stated: increase in informational compression | 02:55 |
| kanzure | conformational changes associated with a rhodopsin protein | 02:55 |
| genehacker | so I want to test for anthrax | 02:55 |
| fenn | i mean specific vs broad attachment | 02:55 |
| kanzure | what? | 02:55 |
| kanzure | specific versus broad ? | 02:55 |
| nsh | there were replicating macrosystems before the first replicating molecular system | 02:55 |
| fenn | say you have a sensor that detects only one chemical vs one tat detects a family of chemicals | 02:55 |
| kanzure | okay? | 02:55 |
| genehacker | I want something that can sense if there are deadly neurotoxins, and a whole bunch of things and fits in my backpack | 02:56 |
| fenn | well as i understand it, aptamers are found by selecting for attachment to a substrate | 02:56 |
| kanzure | but yeah, there are tons of papers about ellington and biosensors with aptamers | 02:56 |
| fenn | so you're only selecting for broad affinity | 02:56 |
| kanzure | no, it can do sub-family discrimination | 02:56 |
| genehacker | so I could have known what caused the chemistry building to be evacuated the other day | 02:57 |
| kanzure | mustard gas is the typical excuse. | 02:57 |
| fenn | genehacker: why dont you just ask? | 02:57 |
| kanzure | fenn, where did you find that lipson paper? | 02:57 |
| fenn | my dad sent it after i told him about a-design | 02:58 |
| kanzure | why can't *my* dad send me cool papers | 02:58 |
| genehacker | because wouldn't it be awesome to have a biosensor that could detect anthrax or swine flu or stuff like that | 02:58 |
| * fenn mumbles something about ouija boards | 02:58 | |
| kanzure | genehacker: ellington has got it down to a science. to the point where he's so completely bored out of his mind of biosensors. | 02:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: so, I still have a few functions to read through in the code | 02:59 |
| kanzure | a few months ago I was talking about an idea of having differetn nodes in a graph of a design as "terminators" | 02:59 |
| genehacker | really can he make a biosensor that can be exposed to air for months without being exposed to the thing that I'm looking for and still work | 03:00 |
| kanzure | where thesse "terminators" are like "typing up the loose ends" in a design | 03:00 |
| kanzure | the "loose ends" are in the sense of whether or not the design passes dimensional analysis without failure | 03:00 |
| kanzure | in a-design, it can be broadly said that there are "terminators" and "correlators" | 03:00 |
| kanzure | a correlator is not a frontier node on the graph of the design. | 03:00 |
| kanzure | a correlator says something about the relation of one variable on one of its ports/interfaces to another port/interface | 03:01 |
| kanzure | and thus how that variable propogates from one part to the next in an overall design. | 03:01 |
| fenn | um, nodes/edges anyone? | 03:01 |
| genehacker | cool | 03:01 |
| kanzure | what? I said nodes and edges | 03:01 |
| genehacker | I don't understand any of it | 03:01 |
| fenn | as far as i can see you're reinventing graph theory with new buzzwords | 03:02 |
| -!- any36007168 is now known as katsmeow | 03:02 | |
| kanzure | ok, which previous-older-buzzwords should I be using? | 03:02 |
| fenn | is node and edge not what you mean? | 03:02 |
| genehacker | I haven't slept very much so I'm AFK | 03:02 |
| kanzure | I'm trying to distinguish between two different types of nodes in a graph-design-thingy | 03:02 |
| fenn | god les is playing this awful ipod SDK tutorial video and i can't think straight | 03:03 |
| kanzure | "hi, I'm a mac SDK tutorial." | 03:03 |
| kanzure | "hi, I'm a PC SDK tutorial" | 03:03 |
| kanzure | anyway, the idea is that the component library/repository exists to provide the 'terminators' in a graph | 03:03 |
| fenn | "hi, I'm Linux. RTFM" | 03:03 |
| kanzure | and of course also the 'correlators' | 03:04 |
| kanzure | (since they are both nodes/parts/components obviously) | 03:04 |
| kanzure | I like calling it "tying up the loose ends" | 03:04 |
| kanzure | it's like keeping track of which physical units you still need to take care of, or something | 03:05 |
| kanzure | once all loose ends are tied up, the design is 'complete'. | 03:05 |
| fenn | this is for just electromechanical systems? | 03:06 |
| fenn | like springs and motors and stuff? | 03:06 |
| fenn | i mean, you can construct arbitrarily complex logical systems | 03:06 |
| kanzure | I think it would work for hydraulics and the other domains that were included in a-design | 03:07 |
| kanzure | although I don't know why he had it constrained to domains .. | 03:07 |
| kanzure | the domains shouldn't matter .. just match units. | 03:07 |
| fenn | ok just making sure you arent getting into protocol design or something | 03:08 |
| fenn | example | 03:08 |
| fenn | .. an example would be helpful | 03:09 |
| kanzure | er, I have a diagram, but it's not as helpful as you think | 03:09 |
| fenn | can you provide any evidence this isn't purely theoretical masturbation? | 03:09 |
| fenn | why aren't dimensional units good enough? | 03:09 |
| kanzure | oh, but I think dimensional units are good enough | 03:10 |
| kanzure | er, the code in question or code of interest is .. /me digs up the lines | 03:10 |
| fenn | campbell determined whether the system was complete by whether there were any unbounded variables | 03:10 |
| fenn | you can bound a variable by connecting it to some other component or to ground | 03:11 |
| kanzure | line 245 in update.lisp | 03:11 |
| fenn | s/it/the component it references/ | 03:11 |
| fenn | one moment | 03:11 |
| kanzure | what I call "terminators" provide that boundedness | 03:11 |
| kanzure | which are given in the component library by the components. | 03:11 |
| fenn | weird | 03:12 |
| fenn | .update.lisp.swp cannot be used on this computer. | 03:12 |
| fenn | The file was created on ubuntu, or the file has been damaged. | 03:12 |
| kanzure | "correlators" string correlators together so that "terminators" that actually have "seemingly incompatible" (but obviously ultimately not incompatible) | 03:12 |
| kanzure | seemingly incompatible units, can be made to solve a design to completion. | 03:13 |
| kanzure | the correlators are the "i, r, d" list thingy in update.lisp or Embodiments.lisp (probably the second one) | 03:13 |
| fenn | so correlators are the equations and terminators are the values | 03:13 |
| kanzure | nah, correlators are in the component library too .. which have various parametric parameters stuffs | 03:14 |
| fenn | i'm sorry but looking at lisp just isnt going to help me understand | 03:14 |
| kanzure | terminators just provide that final 'boundedness' which is qualitative | 03:14 |
| kanzure | the 'boudedness' stuff is always qualitative in a-design, it's a tag | 03:15 |
| fenn | eh i guess | 03:16 |
| fenn | 1/0 is clearly unbounded | 03:16 |
| fenn | force on an unconstrained mass, well, that's more open to interpretation | 03:16 |
| fenn | i mean, moving the mass might be the whole point of the syste | 03:17 |
| kanzure | in the weighing machine example, campbell had a 'goal range' on the foot pad of 0 to 300 lbs. | 03:17 |
| kanzure | (the foot pad was the 'source' and primary input element of that particular system) | 03:17 |
| fenn | what do i r and d stand for? | 03:18 |
| kanzure | d is differentiator | 03:18 |
| kanzure | i is integrator | 03:18 |
| fenn | r is .. proportional? | 03:18 |
| kanzure | r is something that doesn't start with r | 03:18 |
| kanzure | um. | 03:18 |
| fenn | that still doesnt explain anything | 03:18 |
| kanzure | it does if you stare at a few key pieces of information | 03:19 |
| kanzure | (1) Embodiments.lisp the line with (2 4 6) and so on; this expresses a dependency between ports 2, 4, and 6 -- and at the end of that line you will see a "c" IIRC (as opposed to r, d, or i) | 03:19 |
| kanzure | (2) in update.lisp, update-through-across and the function that it calls (the one that is named somewhat similarly but with a -terms in the name) | 03:20 |
| kanzure | (3) In Embodiments.lisp, the lines that look like this: ((a b) c d x), which appear after the area with thingies that match #1. | 03:20 |
| kanzure | somehow these string together so that it makes sense. | 03:20 |
| kanzure | (it especially helps with the commented version if you happened to grab it) | 03:21 |
| fenn | for a bearings (2 4 6) == inner diameter, outer diameter, b ?? | 03:22 |
| kanzure | aha | 03:22 |
| kanzure | r = dissipator | 03:22 |
| kanzure | do you have Embodiments.2009.* ? | 03:22 |
| fenn | no | 03:23 |
| kanzure | for the rotational bearing in the Embodiments file, | 03:23 |
| kanzure | ; (2 4 6) <- dependencies on other variables which correspond to the parameters passed to lambda (2 = v1, 4 = f, 6 = v2) | 03:23 |
| fenn | i think you should explain this to me tomorrow | 03:24 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Embodiments.2009.05.13.lisp | 03:25 |
| kanzure | okay. | 03:25 |
| ybit | kanzure, and really anyone, what's your method for discovering new research papers? | 03:57 |
| ybit | i've thought about building a scraper to search to keep an eye on certain keywords in all DBs that i have acess to, and a few others which i don't. | 03:58 |
| ybit | -"to search" | 03:58 |
| bkero | You guys should come to oregon. | 08:58 |
| bkero | I've prepared waffles. | 08:58 |
| kanzure | ybit: most people monitor RSS feeds or something of particular journals. | 14:35 |
| UtopiahGHML | and journals start to have RSS feeds too, which is prety helpful | 14:39 |
| kanzure | ybit: my main method of the discovery of new, interesting papers is having friends who read interesting papers that they send to me | 14:41 |
| fenn | mmm waffles | 16:25 |
| kanzure- | fenn: in the future, would you be willing to rename the pdf files you upload to attempt to be more descriptive | 16:36 |
| fenn | would 'symbolic regression' be better? | 16:42 |
| fenn | at the time i uploaded, i hadnt actually read the paper | 16:42 |
| fenn | so you can see how it might be difficult to come up with a name | 16:43 |
| fenn | i should be riding my bike to the lab soon | 16:43 |
| kanzure- | yes. | 16:53 |
| kanzure- | er, yes you should be riding | 16:54 |
| kanzure- | symbolic regression is vague. nevermind about the renaming if you haven't read it. | 16:54 |
| kanzure- | although over time it gets hard to manage folders of files with random names like "39491.pdf" and "141411-SCIENCE.pdf" which is what you get when you straight-up download papers these days. | 16:54 |
| fenn | ok see you in 40 mins | 17:04 |
| -!- any80629391 is now known as katsmeow | 17:47 | |
| -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk | 18:17 | |
| ybit | and don't forget the sciencedirect naming convention 'article.pdf' | 18:21 |
| faceface | I wish MediaWiki had a decent 'end-note' style plugin for papers | 18:59 |
| faceface | its citation management is lame | 18:59 |
| nsh | sofixit? | 19:06 |
| faceface | yup | 19:17 |
| faceface | do you like Philip Glass? | 19:17 |
| faceface | oh wait, I know that | 19:18 |
| faceface | where was that Koyaanisqatsi link | 19:18 |
| faceface | ? | 19:18 |
| fenn | kanzure-: i won't be at sata's; campbell requested i talk with him at around 4:10 | 20:59 |
| fenn | faceface: google video i believe | 21:00 |
| * fenn twiddles his thumbs and eats a cookie | 21:01 | |
| fenn | hi genehacker | 21:06 |
| fenn | what are you up to today? | 21:06 |
| genehacker | hello | 21:06 |
| genehacker | why? | 21:06 |
| genehacker | if it involves anything fun, then no | 21:06 |
| fenn | hah | 21:06 |
| genehacker | I have to study for a final tomorrow | 21:06 |
| fenn | just curious.. i'm on campus | 21:06 |
| genehacker | what are you doing? | 21:07 |
| fenn | about to go in for a dreadful interview with campbell | 21:07 |
| genehacker | oh | 21:07 |
| genehacker | where are you? | 21:07 |
| fenn | adl | 21:07 |
| fenn | ok i shouldnt keep the man waiting | 21:08 |
| genehacker | I might be around the engineering library after 7 | 21:08 |
| fenn | ok i will ping you if i'm still here | 21:08 |
| * fenn departs | 21:08 | |
| fenn | well that was nice | 21:31 |
| genehacker | nice as in for real? | 21:34 |
| --- Log closed Fri May 15 21:53:58 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Wed Dec 24 15:05:38 2008 | ||
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| gene_ | well another thing is that the wireless internet at my house uses a long encryption key that is rather hard to transfer | 15:25 |
| clonedgene | well I'm about to have a go at it | 15:27 |
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| clonedgene | checking disk for integrity | 15:35 |
| clonedgene | disk is ok | 15:37 |
| clonedgene | installation is go | 15:39 |
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| clonedgene | oh shoot forgot to backup | 15:44 |
| kanzure_ | .. | 15:49 |
| kanzure_ | so, I totally forgot that the conventional stove is spiraled. | 15:50 |
| clonedgene | ??? | 15:50 |
| clonedgene | the conventional stove? | 15:50 |
| clonedgene | btw kanzure know any good automatic backup applications | 16:03 |
| kanzure_ | in linux, you can do rsync on a cron entry | 16:09 |
| kanzure_ | apt-cache search backup | 16:09 |
| kanzure_ | does anybody know the IP of my lab machine? | 17:18 |
| clonedgene | yeah 127.0.0.1 | 18:00 |
| clonedgene | check the logs | 18:12 |
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| kanzure_ | clonedgene: why would 127.0.0.1 be the external IP address. | 18:44 |
| kanzure_ | isn't that a sort of stupid thing to say? | 18:44 |
| kanzure_ | http://demo.cs.brandeis.edu/golem/ | 18:45 |
| kanzure_ | ^ is hod's work | 18:45 |
| kanzure_ | "In the Golem project (Genetically Organized Lifelike Electro Mechanics) " ... <- ouch. | 18:46 |
| kanzure_ | Ah neat, it has a download. | 18:46 |
| clonedgene | it's a joke kanzure | 19:46 |
| * kanzure_ activatesssss artififical laughter box | 19:47 | |
| clonedgene | you said you have access to the mostly unused ME supercomputer right? | 19:47 |
| kanzure_ | theoretically. I don't have the 'keys' yet. | 19:47 |
| kanzure_ | actually it's more like a cluster | 19:48 |
| clonedgene | we should run golem on it | 19:48 |
| clonedgene | and then print off a couple robots | 19:48 |
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| kanzure_ | just clicking around on instructables, | 22:33 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.instructables.com/id/SFBG7VGF54HJ7TI/ | 22:33 |
| kanzure_ | seriously though. "ok, good luck finding components that match this general look." | 22:34 |
| kanzure_ | http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/26/Simple-Tiramisu <-- heh, at the bottom, near "Copyright Michael Chu 2004". Interesting diagram. | 22:44 |
| kanzure_ | http://reml.sourceforge.net/ recipe exchange markup language | 22:45 |
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| kanzure_ | http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe-formats | 22:47 |
| kanzure_ | http://web.archive.org/web/20070112225127/http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html computerized cooking, RXOL. "in postfix" | 22:49 |
| kanzure_ | "Its grammar is the grammar of cooking itself. It uses postfix, or "Reverse Polish," notation to describe recipes exactly as logicians use it to describe inferences or computer scientists use it to describe computations." | 22:50 |
| kanzure_ | "Is cooking fun? | 22:52 |
| kanzure_ | Those who have savored the joy of sitting down to a meal they have prepared, whose adrenaline has surged at the challenge of mastering a complex menu in time for a deadline, whose soul has relaxed at the gentle rhythms of kneading bread or chopping onions, will hesitate before answering "No."" | 22:52 |
| clonedgene | What do you mean cooking isn't fun? | 23:06 |
| kanzure_ | Huh? Where does it say that? | 23:07 |
| kanzure_ | see the email to om under 'recipe representation' | 23:07 |
| kanzure_ | for the full quote | 23:07 |
| clonedgene | no | 23:07 |
| kanzure_ | "I hate the usual recipe format, and can only work from recipes written in Reverse Polish Notation, which allows them to be processed by computers." | 23:08 |
| clonedgene | just finished much of the cooking process for creme brulees | 23:08 |
| clonedgene | oh damn | 23:08 |
| clonedgene | http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/32/Creme-Brulee-Cregraveme-Brucircleacutee | 23:09 |
| drazak | clonedgene: that is the best recepie site EVER | 23:09 |
| clonedgene | guess this isn't really cooking for engineers then | 23:09 |
| clonedgene | indeed it is | 23:09 |
| kanzure_ | dmundie@sei.cmu.edu | 23:10 |
| kanzure_ | rawr | 23:10 |
| * kanzure_ stalks | 23:10 | |
| clonedgene | what's with the email address | 23:11 |
| drazak | I have to email some dude about getting time in his orgsynth lab | 23:13 |
| kanzure_ | http://web.archive.org/web/20070110221005/http://www.anthus.com/index.html | 23:16 |
| kanzure_ | http://web.archive.org/web/20070222062032/www.anthus.com/Recipes/Sampler.html standardized recipe sampler | 23:16 |
| kanzure_ | http://web.archive.org/web/20070222062126/www.anthus.com/Literature/Quotes.html heh, a huge quotes file. | 23:18 |
| kanzure_ | 23:18 | |
| kanzure_ | You are born in pain; you live in fear; you die alone: Merry Christmas. - Old Scottish Christmas greeting. | 23:18 |
| kanzure_ | "A critical examination of almost any popular cookbook will reveal an endless supply of superfluous, insulting drivel that Shannon would characterize as having no information content." | 23:23 |
| kanzure_ | "Culinary equipment. Paradoxically, information on the proper utensils for a recipe is an intrusion on the recipe itself. The fact of the matter is that noodles cooked in a coffee pot taste just fine, that steak sautéed in a pressure cooker, and potatoes boiled in a frying pan, and omelettes made in a wok, and cake baked in a souflé dish, etc., etc., are virtually indistinguishable from their more usual equivalents. The choice of equipment is largely a matter of common sense and the material at hand. A cook who, reading "sauté the onion in butter," needs to be told to do it in a frypan, needs a general education, not a more verbose recipe." | 23:23 |
| clonedgene | kanzure you should tell him about molecular gastronomy, the science of food | 23:41 |
| clonedgene | some molecular gastronomists recommend exposing your food to vacuum in the cooking process | 23:45 |
| clonedgene | or to cook your food in vacuum | 23:46 |
| clonedgene | I think that food should be sonicated to bring out the flavor | 23:47 |
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