| --- Day changed Sun May 31 2009 | ||
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| fenn | all right why are my monitor colors inverted | 04:40 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | sigh.. seems to be a spontaneous hardware problem | 05:07 |
| * fenn just wants a head up display | 05:08 | |
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| kardan| | hey folks, do you know http://makeitfair.org | 08:32 |
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| nsh | can anyone access this: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/fj.09-131995v1 ? | 09:42 |
| kanzure- | nsh: http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Design,%20expression,%20and%20characterization%20of%20a%20multivalent,%20combination%20HIV%20microbicide.pdf | 10:32 |
| nsh | thanks man | 10:34 |
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| kanzure- | eventually I need to type out a more thorough plan for the myostatin project | 12:46 |
| kanzure- | http://www.permafacture.org/ | 14:44 |
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| kanzure- | found a brain in the austin area who responded to my request for 'mad scientists' | 15:01 |
| kanzure- | called him too, and talked for a while. he wants to build a plasma cutter. (elliot) | 15:03 |
| kanzure- | hm. I need more brains to help me process all of the combinatorial emails that I need to be sending out to update everyone about their projects. | 15:42 |
| kanzure- | I'm thinking of making a mailing list just for my own updates just for people that want to keep track of absolutely everything I do | 15:42 |
| fenn | wasnt that the point of hplusroadmap? :P | 15:42 |
| kanzure- | oh right | 15:43 |
| kanzure- | this is a nice review: http://heybryan.org/books/papers/microfluidics/Continuous%20flow%20separations%20in%20microfluidic%20devices.pdf | 15:43 |
| kanzure- | (looking over some papers to find which software packages they've used) | 15:43 |
| kanzure- | CFD-ACE+ seems to be popular | 15:43 |
| fenn | wow blender has soft body physics | 15:43 |
| kanzure- | deformation simulation ? | 15:43 |
| fenn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdusMZlBbQ4 | 15:45 |
| fenn | looks like it's just mesh based, which leads to sort of a collapsed blood cell look when the object surface self intersects | 15:47 |
| kanzure- | no price on the website for CFD-ACE+ | 15:47 |
| kanzure- | http://www.esi-group.com/products/Fluid-Dynamics/cfd-ace | 15:47 |
| fenn | please explain what this means: | 15:48 |
| fenn | so i just had a dream where i was trapped in a VR environment running on my 1996 macintosh with all my old infini-D models | 15:48 |
| fenn | while dreaming i noticed an interesting effect, which was that fluids (air moving fast enough) interacted with "flesh" | 15:48 |
| fenn | so i was wondering if there existed fluid simulators with multiple different types of fluid, and is this being done as a way to simulate 'meat' on top of a rigid skeleton? | 15:48 |
| kanzure- | isn't that what "multiphysics" means? | 15:49 |
| kanzure- | anyway, I think that's called "mass transfer" | 15:49 |
| fenn | mass transfer? | 15:50 |
| kanzure- | where you have some mass in a certain part of the fluid, or it's a different fluid mass within another fluid or something | 15:50 |
| kanzure- | yeah, because there are different fluids with different masses distributed differently throughout the overall fluid medium | 15:50 |
| kanzure- | right? | 15:50 |
| fenn | momentum transfer? | 15:50 |
| kanzure- | oil and water should be a common multi-fluid simulation that people do | 15:50 |
| fenn | multiphysics = "combining chemical kinetics and fluid mechanics" which doesnt sound like what i'm after | 15:51 |
| fenn | yeah you'd think oil and water would have been done to death by now | 15:51 |
| kanzure- | ok, who do I know who I should ask about CFD software | 15:52 |
| kanzure- | rauchwerk definitely, maybe treadwell, | 15:52 |
| kanzure- | resnick? | 15:52 |
| kanzure- | resnick doesn't seem to do any actual engineering though | 15:52 |
| kanzure- | les? does les know anything? | 15:52 |
| kanzure- | he seemed to know a lot about expensive software packages | 15:53 |
| fenn | les knows a lot of weird things | 15:53 |
| drazak_ | I think 3ds can do the air-flesh interactions, to some degree | 15:54 |
| drazak_ | I know it has stuff in it for rendering air-hair | 15:54 |
| fenn | well i was also thinking about how.. you know, meat sags on the skeleton when subjected to g-forces | 15:55 |
| fenn | like imagine you're simulating a basset hound | 15:57 |
| kanzure- | fenn: you coming over tonight? | 16:01 |
| kanzure- | I actually have food this time | 16:01 |
| fenn | sure | 16:02 |
| fenn | i even struggled out of bed early today so that i might be able to sleep tonight (ha) | 16:02 |
| fenn | did you find a "real" grocery store? :) | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | albertson's | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | I don't like how I've become more physical lately | 16:03 |
| kanzure- | but | 16:03 |
| fenn | that's life :\ | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | should I re-consider hosting a weekly or monthly meetup or something? | 16:04 |
| fenn | har har | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | because it's getting hard to get people to meet me at the same time each week or something | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | or you guys keep missing each other because you all suck or something | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | on the other hand, I'm not sure rauchwerk would be interested in showing up to listen to a bunch of transhumanists yabber on, for instance | 16:04 |
| kanzure- | blah. too many small groups.. | 16:04 |
| fenn | oh, i dont think a jibber jabber session would be productive | 16:05 |
| kanzure- | it probably wouldn't be. | 16:05 |
| kanzure- | what about a file sharing session? or "design schematic sharing session" or something. | 16:05 |
| kanzure- | weren't we just talking about this the other day? | 16:05 |
| kanzure- | this is going nowhere. nevermind. | 16:05 |
| fenn | i'm basically resigned to the next month being sheer boredom and uselessness | 16:05 |
| kanzure- | I'm just angry that I have to be emailing everyone separately and introducing them individually to each other | 16:06 |
| kanzure- | I'll get over it | 16:06 |
| fenn | do you have the power supply to that enormous laptop? | 16:06 |
| kanzure- | three, but none of them work | 16:06 |
| fenn | er. hm | 16:06 |
| kanzure- | two of them have the same problem (cut wires), the other one has some sort of internal problem that I have not diagnosed yet | 16:06 |
| kanzure- | the wires were cut so that I could fix a fourth power supply for it (which has also died) | 16:07 |
| fenn | was the psu to the tablet the original? because it didnt seem to connect electrically very well (have to hold it in) | 16:07 |
| kanzure- | maybe it's not? campbell just handed it over to me | 16:07 |
| kanzure- | I have a soldering iron and some solder and so on, but not much else- so BYOT if you want to take a look and maybe fix one of the adapters | 16:08 |
| kanzure- | or you could possibly convince me to just order one over the internet :p | 16:08 |
| fenn | order a psu? | 16:08 |
| kanzure- | we're talking about the big laptop right? | 16:09 |
| fenn | ya | 16:09 |
| kanzure- | the power adapter? | 16:09 |
| kanzure- | yes, that's how I have more than one | 16:09 |
| kanzure- | fenn: do you have a UT ID card? | 16:09 |
| fenn | yes | 16:10 |
| fenn | my login doesnt work in student labs | 16:10 |
| kanzure- | nah, was asking because of the busses | 16:10 |
| fenn | oh, how does that work btw | 16:11 |
| kanzure- | heh, I've been paying out the nose for the bus rides | 16:11 |
| kanzure- | but it turns out the ID cards can be swiped for a free ride | 16:12 |
| fenn | ah good it works for staff too | 16:13 |
| fenn | for 'main line' at least | 16:13 |
| kanzure- | ok maybe I need to start keeping a giant matrix/grid and start marking off what I've told each person | 16:14 |
| kanzure- | "mom - transhumanism? [ check ]" | 16:15 |
| drazak_ | lol | 16:15 |
| kanzure- | "andrew hessel - pcr thermocycler device patents went through? [check]" "mom? [no]" | 16:15 |
| kanzure- | seriously though | 16:15 |
| drazak_ | no, I know, I've thought of doing that before too | 16:15 |
| kanzure- | why didn't you? | 16:15 |
| fenn | "talk to your parents about transhumanism, before it's too late' | 16:15 |
| kanzure- | UPDATE: "talk to remaining parent about transhumanism, before it's too late" | 16:16 |
| kanzure- | heh | 16:16 |
| drazak_ | because I'd put stuff on there that I wouldn't want people to see, and if it's digital, people can see it | 16:16 |
| drazak_ | people, meaning people on the list | 16:16 |
| kanzure- | yeah so I have a huge issue figuring out what's supposed to be private or not or whatever | 16:16 |
| kanzure- | or who gets to see what or who doesn't | 16:16 |
| drazak_ | mhmm | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | like, should I be hiding from my professors that I'm a super open source hardware advocate and I'm hungry for blood? | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | or should I not bother explaining that to them since it would take one too many conceptual leaps to explain it? | 16:17 |
| drazak_ | it depends on the professors | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | right .. but then should I tell them when we're starting to market an open source hardware product? | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | or when I get on an editorial board for a journal of abundance? | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | or is that something that people don't advertise? | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | *advertize | 16:17 |
| fenn | if you think they're interested | 16:17 |
| kanzure- | damn brits | 16:17 |
| drazak_ | you know | 16:18 |
| fenn | if they're not interested you just come off as an arrogant 'me me me' person | 16:18 |
| drazak_ | you should run a thinktank publication | 16:18 |
| kanzure- | I don't have a good model of what other people are interested in | 16:18 |
| kanzure- | I just assume I'm interested in mostly everything | 16:18 |
| kanzure- | but this doesn't seem to work for everyone | 16:18 |
| fenn | maybe you're an arrogant 'me me me' person :P | 16:18 |
| kanzure- | well yeah | 16:18 |
| drazak_ | people put ideas in for review by others by email or on some sort of thinktank mailing list | 16:18 |
| kanzure- | but what do you want ME to do about it? | 16:19 |
| drazak_ | :P | 16:19 |
| kanzure- | drazak_: yet another mailing list? | 16:19 |
| drazak_ | kanzure-: yes damnit! | 16:19 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html | 16:19 |
| fenn | time to resurrect hplusroadmap? | 16:19 |
| fenn | not that i ever read it or anything in the past | 16:19 |
| kanzure- | oh, I guess I can now run a mailing list again since I'm back on time warner cable | 16:20 |
| drazak_ | well | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | I think I'll try out the giant matrix idea | 16:20 |
| kanzure- | or something | 16:20 |
| fenn | i suggest a hash | 16:21 |
| drazak_ | what you do is have people email you ideas that are well formatted and thought out, and then have people be subscribers, and post once a week with all the ideas presented to you, and the emails on the ideaers | 16:21 |
| fenn | or dict.. whatever | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | it would be nice to keep track of who I've been ignoring or something | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | "time to ask treadwell wtf he's up to" | 16:21 |
| fenn | heh | 16:21 |
| kanzure- | I seem to have this pattern of ignoring some people | 16:21 |
| fenn | bastard never responded to my request for materials property data sources | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | not on purpose of course, but just because I'm not emailing them frequently enough to realize that I've forgotten them | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | for instance, I haven't been talking with tito jankowski much | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | even though we probably have a lot to talk about | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | or not | 16:22 |
| fenn | you can't maintain 100% connectivity with everyone in the universe | 16:22 |
| kanzure- | sure I can. I just need to automate my "checkups" on them or something | 16:23 |
| kanzure- | and then filter for interesting bullshit | 16:23 |
| kanzure- | a simple cron job? | 16:23 |
| fenn | do you think this will uncover significant information that wouldn't otherwise spontaneously show itself? | 16:23 |
| kanzure- | hm | 16:23 |
| kanzure- | so here's how it could work | 16:24 |
| kanzure- | I could keep a log of the different projects that each person has been telling me about | 16:24 |
| kanzure- | I'll write these down in a general note format | 16:24 |
| kanzure- | then when the cron job comes up, it will email each of the people and say something like | 16:24 |
| kanzure- | "last time we talked, you were going on about .. * list here pulled from the file" | 16:24 |
| fenn | heh you probably could actually automate that | 16:24 |
| kanzure- | (I commonly forget what I last told somebody about, so it gets very random if I last told them about me being sent to a home, and now all of the sudden I'm talking about totally different things) | 16:25 |
| fenn | some simple word substitutions so they dont think you're quoting verbatim | 16:25 |
| kanzure- | well, I wouldn't mind manually writing down the notes in some non-verbatim format | 16:25 |
| kanzure- | since I should be keeping track of that shit anyway in the first place :p | 16:25 |
| fenn | pff stupid other peoples projects | 16:26 |
| fenn | nobody does anything cool anyway | 16:26 |
| kanzure- | huh | 16:28 |
| kanzure- | one of the authors of scipy lives in austin | 16:28 |
| kanzure- | treadwell just recommended I go stalk him down to ask him about the CFD software stuff | 16:28 |
| fenn | is he on IM? | 16:29 |
| fenn | (treadwell) | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | no | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | 16:29 | |
| kanzure- | Travis Oliphant Travis Oliphant | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | Enthought Inc. | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | 1-512-536-1057 | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | http://www.enthought.com | 16:29 |
| kanzure- | oliphant@enthought.com | 16:29 |
| fenn | that sounds familiar | 16:29 |
| fenn | then again i'm brain damaged or something | 16:30 |
| kanzure- | he gave a presentation last week | 16:31 |
| kanzure- | http://static.slidesharecdn.com/swf/ssplayer2.swf?doc=numpychacomayavi-090528025000-phpapp01&stripped_title=python-for-scientific-computing-webinar-may-22-2009 | 16:31 |
| fenn | oo you mean i get to pay $2500 for a powerpoint presentation? really? | 16:32 |
| -!- DrTread [n=chatzill@cpe-70-112-223-97.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 16:32 | |
| fenn | hi DrTread | 16:33 |
| DrTread | howdy | 16:33 |
| drazak_ | more people from austin :P | 16:33 |
| fenn | DrTread: just curious, did you ever get an email from me about material property databases? | 16:33 |
| DrTread | sorry for my absence. i've been living with my head inside MakerBot for the last month | 16:33 |
| DrTread | hmmmm.... checking.... | 16:33 |
| kanzure- | oh hi DrTread | 16:33 |
| kanzure- | thanks for the Travis Oliphant reference | 16:34 |
| DrTread | can't find it, fenn | 16:34 |
| DrTread | you're welcome, kanzure | 16:34 |
| fenn | hm. well that lends support to my 'academic people never get my emails' hypothesis | 16:34 |
| DrTread | pfffft. | 16:34 |
| fenn | also 'academic people delete my emails on sight' hypothesis | 16:35 |
| * fenn shrugs | 16:35 | |
| kanzure- | people actually delete emails? | 16:35 |
| DrTread | i can't find the pair of forceps i just put down 15 seconds ago, why should i be able to find your emails? | 16:35 |
| DrTread | :) | 16:35 |
| kanzure- | DrTread: there are a few people who have been thinking about building a desk that tracks where you put shit | 16:36 |
| kanzure- | it's kind of related to the "smart wetlab bench" project | 16:36 |
| DrTread | occasionally delete mass emails. surely, i wouldn't have deleted something so important as this! | 16:36 |
| kanzure- | and also vern's third arm for electronics benches | 16:36 |
| DrTread | fenn, possible keywords? | 16:36 |
| DrTread | lol @ third arm. | 16:36 |
| kanzure- | just call me Dr. Octavious | 16:36 |
| DrTread | nice idea, if only i could place things as precisely as the robot expects them | 16:37 |
| kanzure- | use hooks | 16:37 |
| kanzure- | then pass a string over a plane and get the tool hooked on it | 16:37 |
| kanzure- | just don't stab yourself :) | 16:37 |
| DrTread | **cuts off hands** **replaces them with hooks** | 16:37 |
| kanzure- | no, I mean, use hooks on the tools | 16:37 |
| kanzure- | then it doesn't have to be precisely positioned | 16:37 |
| DrTread | OH! now you tell me! | 16:37 |
| kanzure- | kind of like how airforce fighters land on a moving landing platform with giant rubber band stopper dealies | 16:38 |
| DrTread | what do i do wif these bloody stumps now? | 16:38 |
| kanzure- | how are you typing | 16:38 |
| DrTread | Pencil in teeth | 16:38 |
| fenn | DrTread: subject was [Open Manufacturing] Re: openmaterials.org (fwd) | 16:38 |
| kanzure- | huh. well. if you rush to the hospital, they can reattach the hands | 16:38 |
| DrTread | too late. fed them to the cats. ;) | 16:39 |
| drazak_ | kanzure-: a smart wetlab bench would be awesome | 16:39 |
| drazak_ | if expensive | 16:39 |
| DrTread | ah, yes. openmaterials.org | 16:39 |
| DrTread | i have volunteered my services to them | 16:39 |
| DrTread | **looks for reply** | 16:39 |
| kanzure- | drazak_: someone at diybio was thinking about it. they wanted to integrate a camera so that you could do an instant replay to make sure you didn't pipette something already, or whatever | 16:39 |
| drazak_ | well, that would be cool, I was thinking rfid and big warnings if you were going to do something dangerous | 16:39 |
| kanzure- | warnings when what happens? | 16:40 |
| DrTread | yes, received a reply from Caterina Mota. | 16:40 |
| fenn | kanzure-: omg that would be so useful | 16:40 |
| fenn | seriously i dont know how many times i had that problem | 16:40 |
| kanzure- | it's like getting lost in a trance and then not knowing what the fuck just happened | 16:40 |
| kanzure- | I don't know how other people deal with it | 16:40 |
| kanzure- | the guy who was counting cells by hand through the 'scope too .. how do you make sure you don't count the same cell twice? | 16:41 |
| DrTread | WOW! the solution to where i just put those forceps! Just yesterday I found the last of the MakerBot parts I lost whilst assembling it. | 16:41 |
| fenn | DrTread: er.. but, do you know any sources of unencumbered materials data? | 16:41 |
| kanzure- | imagej is better at that task :) | 16:41 |
| DrTread | the JANF tables are pretty much unencumbered. | 16:41 |
| DrTread | JANAF | 16:41 |
| kanzure- | the who? | 16:41 |
| drazak_ | kanzure-: a HUD/camera that follows the eye and notices where it stops and puts a red dot there | 16:42 |
| fenn | journal of analytical something something | 16:42 |
| DrTread | Joint Army Navy AirForce materials properties tables. BIG book | 16:42 |
| kanzure- | drazak_: wait, what? I was thinking of something that would just record the lab bench in general | 16:42 |
| kanzure- | but why follow the eye? | 16:42 |
| drazak_ | well for counting cells | 16:42 |
| kanzure- | oh | 16:42 |
| kanzure- | okay | 16:42 |
| kanzure- | I do notice that when I'm pipetting over hundreds of tubes, my eyes start to block out everything else | 16:42 |
| kanzure- | and I just focus on the current tube that I'm working with | 16:43 |
| kanzure- | it's an interesting state of mind | 16:43 |
| drazak_ | it'd be a microscope eyepiece | 16:43 |
| kanzure- | it's kind of like when reading and you lose your place | 16:43 |
| DrTread | http://openlibrary.org/b/OL4693854M/JANAF-thermochemical-tables. | 16:43 |
| kanzure- | eyemarks: so you never "lose your place" again | 16:43 |
| DrTread | a pipetting robot would be nice. | 16:43 |
| kanzure- | well yes that too | 16:44 |
| kanzure- | or just integrate everything on to the same chip so that you don't have to pipette anything at all | 16:44 |
| fenn | pipetting robot would certainly fix a much broader range of problems | 16:44 |
| drazak_ | kanzure-: ooh, glasses that have a HUD for hilighting | 16:44 |
| kanzure- | human error is pretty broad | 16:44 |
| DrTread | yes. i've always loved the concept of "normal accidents" | 16:44 |
| kanzure- | btw, someone told me yesterday about some money that he has put into a HUD glasses thingy | 16:44 |
| fenn | DrTread: do you think an average university library would have JANAF tables? | 16:45 |
| kanzure- | some cheap inexpensive screen glasses that he's coming out with "soon" | 16:45 |
| DrTread | yes. Average, you mean like UT? | 16:45 |
| fenn | yeah | 16:45 |
| DrTread | ;) | 16:45 |
| kanzure- | fenn: http://lib.utexas.edu/ might have it listed on the "online databases" section | 16:45 |
| * fenn wonders if he's going to have to OCR this | 16:45 | |
| DrTread | they're up to their 30th edition now. so almost any technical library should have one or many | 16:46 |
| fenn | this has stuff like tensile strength of alloys right? | 16:46 |
| DrTread | yes. absolutely. | 16:47 |
| DrTread | most of it is metals information, welding, heat treating, strengths, IIRC, altho there's lots of thermochemical data aimed at combustion & explosions. you know, military stuff | 16:48 |
| DrTread | i'm trying to clean up my office this weekend. how could so much crap accumulate in just 9 months? | 16:50 |
| DrTread | kanzure, i'm still waiting for you to catalog everything in my house for me. | 16:50 |
| -!- splicer [n=patrik@h177n3c1o261.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 16:51 | |
| kanzure- | DrTread: maybe next weekend? | 16:52 |
| DrTread | OK, it's a date! ;) | 16:55 |
| DrTread | it's also a 2-year-long job, i'm afraid. | 16:56 |
| DrTread | i'm still trying to organize my resistors. then, move on to capacitors.... | 16:56 |
| * fenn mumbles something about an inventory robot | 16:56 | |
| DrTread | :D At least i have one of those for my books! | 16:56 |
| fenn | DrTread: throw out everything except power resistors and start fresh | 16:56 |
| fenn | at $0.001 each you can't go wrong ordering new ones | 16:57 |
| fenn | then get only reasonable numbers you actually use | 16:57 |
| DrTread | true. but what about all of the rest of the stuff? do i throw out my collection of Si, Ge & ZnS lenses, too? | 16:57 |
| fenn | no of course not | 16:58 |
| DrTread | Photomultiplier tubes? High-voltage power supplies? | 16:58 |
| * fenn drools | 16:58 | |
| DrTread | Random bits of plumbing? | 16:58 |
| fenn | uh, maybe | 16:58 |
| DrTread | Yeah, i think the last one is a candidate for the dust bin. | 16:58 |
| fenn | did i mention the fab is painfully short of "junk"? | 16:58 |
| DrTread | why, no. no you didn't. need some? | 16:59 |
| fenn | yeah | 16:59 |
| kanzure- | :) | 16:59 |
| kanzure- | oh btw I also have some junk in some boxes to hand off | 16:59 |
| fenn | your junk sucks | 16:59 |
| kanzure- | have you looked yet? | 16:59 |
| DrTread | my car will thank you. it might be nice to get it into the garage some day. | 16:59 |
| fenn | it's all CRT monitors and .. CRT monitors | 16:59 |
| kanzure- | nah, there's some other stuff | 16:59 |
| kanzure- | that I grabbed from the robot group guys | 16:59 |
| DrTread | LOL I threw out my favorite 1950s CRT monitor a few years ago. hated to see it go. very steampunk. | 17:00 |
| fenn | kanzure-: based on what they were showing off, i'm scared to ask | 17:00 |
| kanzure- | it's the good junk :p | 17:00 |
| DrTread | but useless. i did keep some of those new-fangled transistor thingies, however | 17:00 |
| kanzure- | DrTread: did you see what I was thinking of adding to my apartment? | 17:00 |
| DrTread | the blinkey light stuff? yeah | 17:01 |
| kanzure- | no, not blinking lights | 17:01 |
| kanzure- | http://woodysprops.com/005.jpg http://woodysprops.com/037.jpg | 17:01 |
| DrTread | girlz find that geek stuff trez sexxxy | 17:01 |
| kanzure- | ridiculously huge interfaces and custom keyboards | 17:01 |
| kanzure- | giant lever for "ENTER" | 17:01 |
| kanzure- | fenn suggested a radar for detecting incoming enemy missiles | 17:01 |
| kanzure- | however I seem to have no enemies at the moment | 17:01 |
| kanzure- | so that might have to wait | 17:01 |
| drazak_ | just remember, in DrTreads house of fab, put nothing back where it was | 17:02 |
| DrTread | North Korea is always a threat. | 17:02 |
| DrTread | as is Captain Hammer! | 17:02 |
| kanzure- | DrTread: in particular, I was thinking of making a console that will display papers from my science paper collection | 17:02 |
| kanzure- | and have giant knobs for manipulating the PDF viewer settings (zoom in/out, page up/down, scroll, etc.) | 17:03 |
| kanzure- | maybe also a few knobs for background color or something | 17:03 |
| kanzure- | it's a machine that goes ping for SCIENCE! | 17:03 |
| DrTread | drazak_ LOL I never put anything in the same place twice. taking a clue from chess, that would be a draw. | 17:03 |
| drazak_ | DrTread: :P | 17:03 |
| fenn | so i was thinking we could have a recirculating pile of communal junk | 17:03 |
| DrTread | kanzure- it's called a microfiche reader. | 17:03 |
| kanzure- | is that some microfilm thingy? | 17:04 |
| drazak_ | yes | 17:04 |
| DrTread | yes. | 17:04 |
| kanzure- | fenn: why not just keep it in the fablab? | 17:04 |
| fenn | right | 17:04 |
| fenn | by recirculating i meant to convey the image of convection | 17:04 |
| drazak_ | kanzure-: I can get my hands on some microfilm if you want | 17:05 |
| kanzure- | drazak_: can you give me a reason to want microfilm? | 17:05 |
| DrTread | my junk pile let me down today. i needed a 16 mm Teflon rod. i thought i had a 1" rod, so n/p, right? turns out it is a 1-1/2 inch OD, 1 inch ID tube. fail | 17:05 |
| fenn | with a fluidized bed, the big pieces of junk would surface to the top and be easily removed | 17:05 |
| fenn | that condenses the most information/utility into the smallest space | 17:06 |
| DrTread | oh, i like that idea. like ore flotation. | 17:06 |
| fenn | you know, i could kill two birds with one stone by disassembling/cataloging drtread's junk for campbell | 17:07 |
| DrTread | happily, Small Parts Inc., via Amazon.com to the next-day-air-for-$3.9-extra rescue! | 17:08 |
| fenn | beats the hell out of disassembling toasters | 17:08 |
| kanzure- | heh | 17:08 |
| DrTread | that's JUNQUE with a Q! | 17:08 |
| kanzure- | now you're optimizing :) | 17:08 |
| fenn | combinatorics | 17:08 |
| kanzure- | the correct phrase is | 17:08 |
| kanzure- | combinatorics, bitches | 17:08 |
| DrTread | :O | 17:08 |
| drazak_ | no no, combinatorics, biatches | 17:09 |
| DrTread | yesterday, i calculated that the upper bound on tweets during my lifetime is 10^15. | 17:09 |
| fenn | bitches, combinatorics! | 17:09 |
| kanzure- | DrTread: why did you do that | 17:09 |
| DrTread | and that of those, no more than 10^3 are likely to be truly useful to me. | 17:10 |
| DrTread | i need a 1:10^12 reduction filter. | 17:10 |
| fenn | how many dB is that? | 17:10 |
| DrTread | 120 dB | 17:10 |
| DrTread | one of my tweeple is a semiotician | 17:11 |
| kanzure- | on that note, | 17:11 |
| DrTread | we were discussing txt filters | 17:11 |
| kanzure- | I've started to notice that the good papers that I read all follow a similar pattern in their title | 17:11 |
| DrTread | oh? | 17:11 |
| kanzure- | or use similar words or something | 17:11 |
| kanzure- | yes | 17:11 |
| kanzure- | especially those with the words "direct", "evidence", "confirmation", "manipulation", "influences", "modifies", "regulates", .. | 17:12 |
| kanzure- | :p | 17:12 |
| fenn | confirmation bias? | 17:12 |
| kanzure- | probably | 17:12 |
| DrTread | got a rule that will fit in a Regular Expression? | 17:12 |
| kanzure- | heh | 17:12 |
| kanzure- | um | 17:12 |
| kanzure- | no, but I'm sure a lexical parser could be written | 17:13 |
| fenn | unfortunately regex is bad for natural language processing | 17:13 |
| fenn | there should be some kind of 'sloppy regex' | 17:13 |
| kanzure- | this goes back to my dreams of automatically searching through the literature for the islands of regularity and connectivity | 17:13 |
| DrTread | Too bad i don't talk with a Lisp | 17:13 |
| kanzure- | so that I don't have to discover subsets of science that I should have known about years ago, and instead learn it sooner | 17:13 |
| fenn | can't you use web of science? | 17:14 |
| fenn | science citation index* | 17:14 |
| kanzure- | yes of course | 17:14 |
| fenn | you just need some good graph visualization software | 17:14 |
| kanzure- | but that doesn't help you explore stuff you don't already know about | 17:14 |
| kanzure- | I need some data to visualize as a graph in the first place | 17:14 |
| DrTread | that's why i like searching through paper indices | 17:14 |
| fenn | scrape, bitches! | 17:14 |
| kanzure- | scrape what | 17:15 |
| kanzure- | it's not a top-down directory | 17:15 |
| fenn | web of science | 17:15 |
| kanzure- | but you need to give it queries | 17:15 |
| fenn | well, seed it with your paper collection | 17:15 |
| kanzure- | okay | 17:15 |
| * fenn wonders how many years this will take | 17:16 | |
| DrTread | my brain is a darned good filter for the possibly interesting, just not 120 dB worth of filtering. | 17:16 |
| kanzure- | fenn: two until I convince myself it's worth doing | 17:16 |
| kanzure- | and then a weekend of perl hacking | 17:16 |
| kanzure- | a weekend of cringing over the fact that it's in perl | 17:16 |
| kanzure- | and then a weekend wondering why my connection is so slow | 17:16 |
| DrTread | wow, you're quick. | 17:16 |
| kanzure- | DrTread: I wrote the script to download Nature in a weekend .. | 17:16 |
| fenn | Citation Map Visualizing citation data in the Web of Science | 17:16 |
| kanzure- | scraping isn't hard, it's the other stuff that is hard | 17:16 |
| DrTread | LOL I wrote a script to search eBay for about 1000 rare minerals | 17:17 |
| fenn | then you discovered the 'save search' feature? | 17:17 |
| DrTread | speaking of, that script has suffered bit rot. must rewrite... | 17:17 |
| kanzure- | a month ago I was working on my firefox plugin to keep track of google scholar queries. I have confirmed that it sucks to work with XUL. | 17:18 |
| DrTread | LOL... it optimized the searches, condensing words with asterisks wherever possible. | 17:18 |
| DrTread | still, 1000 minerals made a lot of saved searches. | 17:18 |
| DrTread | my biggest problem is the mineral "Samsonite". I can't figure out how to filter out all of the luggage! | 17:18 |
| fenn | or kryptonite | 17:19 |
| DrTread | Nooooo! That makes me sooooo weak!!!! | 17:19 |
| DrTread | and keeps my bike from being stolen | 17:19 |
| fenn | the would-be bike thieves just can't muster the effort to break your lock | 17:20 |
| DrTread | oh sh*t... there are my calipers under my keyboard | 17:20 |
| DrTread | locks only keep one safe from the the marginally honest | 17:20 |
| fenn | what about a REALLY BIG LOCK | 17:21 |
| DrTread | and the forceps are behind the calipers on my keyboard tray. | 17:21 |
| fenn | a chain the size of your forearm and ten times as heavy | 17:21 |
| fenn | to complement your carbon fiber frame | 17:21 |
| DrTread | like this: http://www.daleyblog.com/weblog/images/fortress-lock-tm.jpg | 17:23 |
| DrTread | a materials scientist friend of mine had a discussion with a bike salesman about whether or not a particular bike was made of pure Scandium. | 17:24 |
| fenn | sounds unlikely | 17:25 |
| fenn | used in aluminum alloys? | 17:25 |
| DrTread | yep. Al + 0.1 to 0.5% Sc | 17:26 |
| DrTread | doesn't take much. | 17:26 |
| DrTread | looking for a #73 drill bit. my usual sources are out. building my own MakerBot extruder, so a #72 or a #76 will have to do. | 17:40 |
| fenn | i imagine a range of sizes to play with would be useful | 17:43 |
| DrTread | indeed. I have a #71; can't find #74-#75. At least not at the moment. I shall continue to rummage thru the Junque stash. | 17:46 |
| DrTread | and of course, buying only 1 at a time leads to frustration. if you look at a #74 funny it'll break. | 17:48 |
| fenn | i guess i dont understand what guido is trying to do with his 'ipod pcr usb gadget' | 17:48 |
| fenn | DrTread: just do a sane feed per rev and it'll work fine | 17:49 |
| fenn | diameter/100 or so | 17:49 |
| DrTread | just handling them is risky, and they best run @ 10 000 RPM or more | 17:49 |
| fenn | well you have to turn the workpiece, not the drill bit | 17:50 |
| DrTread | right. in lathe | 17:50 |
| fenn | maybe it doesnt matter for the nozzle | 17:50 |
| DrTread | well, the nozzle is a nice brass hex. easy to hold in jaws. | 17:51 |
| fenn | people make babington burners by epoxying in a bit of wire and pulling out the wire | 17:51 |
| DrTread | cool idea! | 17:51 |
| DrTread | so long as the wire is properly deburred. maybe i could cut then dissolve burrs in acid or electrolytically. | 17:52 |
| fenn | just yank on it til it breaks? | 17:53 |
| fenn | you're probably over thinking it | 17:54 |
| DrTread | maybe. face shield + welder's apron + kevlar gloves + hydraulic ram + jig + ??? | 17:54 |
| DrTread | breaking hardened steel wire is not my idea of fun. | 17:54 |
| DrTread | of course, steel wire dissolves.... | 17:55 |
| DrTread | maybe a string of cotton candy would be easier? ;) | 17:55 |
| fenn | wire brushes have lots of loose bits of hardened steel wire | 17:55 |
| fenn | with sharp tips | 17:55 |
| fenn | might not be small enough though | 17:56 |
| fenn | nevermind, just drill it | 17:56 |
| DrTread | i'm thinking those are rather large, 0.02" or so? | 17:57 |
| DrTread | or even larger | 17:57 |
| DrTread | yes. drill. good. | 17:57 |
| DrTread | but first, i need a brass hex cap that's got a small thin spot @ the tip. how to thin it down to 0.05" so that the drill can handle the cut. Patience, and a good supply of brass hex. | 17:59 |
| fenn | measure the hole depth in the cap, cut off excess? | 18:00 |
| fenn | you have a depth indicator for the lathe? i suppose you could use calipers | 18:00 |
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| fenn | not like .05" is hard to measure | 18:00 |
| DrTread | no, not really, even for an inside measurement. | 18:01 |
| DrTread | but i don't want to take it out of the lathe to measure it if i don't have to. screws up concentricity. | 18:02 |
| DrTread | will think about best work flow. | 18:03 |
| fenn | i guess i assumed you could measure it while held in the chuck jaws, but your chuck is pretty small eh? so can't do that | 18:04 |
| DrTread | oh, it's large enough. no problem there. | 18:04 |
| DrTread | what i think i'll do is counterbore & thread, then drill out a smaller spot with a #50 bit or so from one end, then measure the depth and overall length of the hex. | 18:06 |
| DrTread | then flip it around & face the end until the thinnest part should be 0.05". The DRO should be able to tell me within 0.002". | 18:07 |
| DrTread | Then put the micro chuck in the tailstock & drill the #72 hole. Easy! | 18:08 |
| DrTread | must make allowance for conical shape of #50 drill bit tip, of course. | 18:09 |
| DrTread | **looks at end of depth gauge on calipers** | 18:10 |
| fenn | isn't that what i just said? | 18:11 |
| * fenn mumbles about lack of machining process language | 18:11 | |
| DrTread | yes, probably was. not like i'm an expert, either. just a geek with a lathe in his garage. | 18:12 |
| fenn | arent we all | 18:12 |
| DrTread | end of depth gauge on calipers is 0.089" on diagonal, so I'll use a #43 drill. | 18:13 |
| DrTread | Yep, so say we all. | 18:14 |
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| DrTread | Anybody built a CNC package from hobbycnc.com? I'm thinking $7-8k from my lathe's manufacturer is a bit steep. | 18:17 |
| DrTread | $400 starting point seems much more reasonable. | 18:18 |
| DrTread | but not turnkey | 18:18 |
| fenn | agreed | 18:22 |
| fenn | hobbycnc is crap | 18:22 |
| fenn | xylotex is slightly better crap, but the general consensus is to get geckos | 18:22 |
| fenn | there is new a "low price" $39/axis gecko | 18:22 |
| fenn | personally i'm going with servos even if it means i have to make everything from scratch | 18:24 |
| fenn | steppers just suck too much | 18:24 |
| DrTread | hmmm...servos require more zen than steppers | 18:25 |
| fenn | tell me about zen when your stepper skips a few steps in the middle of a ten hour job | 18:27 |
| kanzure- | zen steppers? | 18:31 |
| DrTread | true that! OK, so geckos require one controller per axis. recommendations for motors? | 18:31 |
| DrTread | no. steppers have no zen. | 18:31 |
| fenn | automationdirect if you just want to throw money at it and be done | 18:33 |
| fenn | or you can spend eternity on ebay | 18:33 |
| DrTread | quote from one of my yahoo groups: "You may want to check out the DIY-CNC group if you plan to move forward. The road is not as easy or cheap as you might think at first." | 18:36 |
| fenn | this is true | 18:36 |
| fenn | then again you just spent $700 on a plywood box | 18:36 |
| fenn | excuse me "cnc machine" | 18:36 |
| DrTread | true. but it's very cute. | 18:36 |
| DrTread | and it has gotten me over my activation barrier. | 18:37 |
| DrTread | ok, just joined DIY-CNC. | 18:40 |
| DrTread | just what i need: more bacon in my inbox. :( | 18:40 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html | 18:40 |
| kanzure- | link to the DIY-CNC list please? | 18:40 |
| DrTread | mmmmm..... bacon..... speaking of, it's time for dinner. | 18:40 |
| -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] | 18:41 | |
| DrTread | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY-CNC/ | 18:41 |
| fenn | (psst i think he meant bacn) | 18:41 |
| kanzure- | hm yet another mailing list | 18:42 |
| DrTread | yes, yes. **rolls eyes** | 18:42 |
| fenn | spamlike crunchy bits you might want after all | 18:42 |
| kanzure- | cheap-pcr-development | 18:42 |
| kanzure- | wtf why is hessel, cline, cowell, etc. already on this list | 18:42 |
| fenn | hey someone should start a diy-* aggregator list | 18:42 |
| kanzure- | this is a scam | 18:42 |
| fenn | filter out all the politics and bullshit and just forward hardcore engineering progress | 18:42 |
| fenn | kanzure-: history tells me they are starting a company :( | 18:43 |
| kanzure- | it would be too depressing because nothing would go through | 18:43 |
| fenn | hahahahahaa | 18:43 |
| kanzure- | http://groups.google.com/group/cheap-pcr-development | 18:43 |
| fenn | well at least i wouldnt have to spend all my time reading mailing lists then | 18:44 |
| fenn | (not like i have to, but it's a good distraction/excuse) | 18:44 |
| DrTread | if you have your 120 dB information filter inline | 18:45 |
| kanzure- | why is hessel the "group owner" | 18:45 |
| fenn | You cannot view the group's content or participate in the group because you are not currently a member. Members must be approved before joining. | 18:45 |
| fenn | too much bother | 18:45 |
| DrTread | kanzure- seems to have such a filter. mine is only 80 dB or so. that's a factor of 10 000. | 18:45 |
| fenn | i'll make my own damn cheap pcr | 18:46 |
| kanzure- | so | 18:46 |
| kanzure- | originally when I first got involved with diybio, I thought that there was some conspiracy or something | 18:46 |
| kanzure- | because everyone talked like they were in a company with each other already | 18:46 |
| fenn | which conspiracy? | 18:46 |
| kanzure- | but I couldn't prove it | 18:46 |
| kanzure- | well it just seemed like they all hated me or something | 18:46 |
| DrTread | it's the bilderberger group & the trilateral commission. | 18:47 |
| kanzure- | in a way that suggested that they were doing something they weren't telling me about | 18:47 |
| fenn | dude, 'crowdsourcing' its the new web 2.0 capitalist oppression | 18:47 |
| DrTread | too much money involved, really. why cure cancer if you can't make a billion off of it? | 18:47 |
| DrTread | i blame Bob Dole. | 18:47 |
| fenn | that's funny because hessel is mister 'open source cancer cures' | 18:48 |
| fenn | i blame evan bayh | 18:48 |
| DrTread | unintended consequence of giving universities patent rights to federally funded discoveries. | 18:48 |
| fenn | actually i blame reagan for killing the space program | 18:48 |
| fenn | well if this page ever loads it has steppers on it http://web5.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Motion_Control/Stepper_Systems/Motors_-z-_Cables | 18:49 |
| fenn | for something like $30 | 18:49 |
| DrTread | i blame Lee Harvey Oswald for killing the space program. | 18:49 |
| DrTread | didn't you just say to go servo? | 18:50 |
| fenn | yes | 18:50 |
| fenn | i didnt expect you to actually do that though | 18:50 |
| fenn | because there's currently no cheap solution in existence (this is one of my projects that never gets done) | 18:50 |
| fenn | oh you might be able to use a mesa 7i22 and some l298's | 18:51 |
| fenn | with emc2 | 18:51 |
| fenn | hm google doesnt find 7i22 | 18:51 |
| DrTread | how about servo with quadrature feedback? | 18:53 |
| fenn | The MESA 7I43 is a low cost, general purpose programmable I/O card that connects to the host computer via USB or PC parallel port. The 7I43 uses a 200K or 400K gate Xilinx FPGA for all logic | 18:53 |
| fenn | you have to use parallel port with emc though | 18:53 |
| DrTread | parallel port? that's the one thing my Junque bin does NOT contain. | 18:54 |
| fenn | too bad, you need it for CNC | 18:54 |
| DrTread | oh, wait. yes. an ethernet to parallel converter. | 18:54 |
| fenn | 7i43 is $89 | 18:54 |
| DrTread | nevermind. | 18:54 |
| fenn | and you need a real parport, not some junky adapter crap | 18:54 |
| DrTread | **sulks** | 18:54 |
| DrTread | the world has run on USB for 15 years. | 18:55 |
| fenn | just get a pci parport card for $10 on ebay | 18:55 |
| fenn | USB is not suited for machine control | 18:55 |
| DrTread | **jams pci port into Mac Pro tower** | 18:55 |
| fenn | too much latency and jitter, and too many drivers | 18:55 |
| fenn | Mac Pro running a CNC? what? | 18:56 |
| DrTread | you're right. too simple for the computer. | 18:56 |
| fenn | more like, computer too complicated for the task | 18:56 |
| DrTread | true. | 18:56 |
| DrTread | latency is only a problem is the driver board doesn't have onboard memory. | 18:57 |
| DrTread | dumb drivers are sooooo 20th century | 18:57 |
| fenn | hrmph | 18:57 |
| DrTread | take my Cupcake CNC MakerBot, for instance... | 18:57 |
| fenn | a paragon of engineering quality | 18:58 |
| DrTread | 2 GiB SD card. | 18:58 |
| fenn | wait a minute | 18:58 |
| DrTread | a paragon of open source engineering quality. ;) | 18:58 |
| fenn | oh don't get me started.. that thing is a piece of shit | 18:59 |
| fenn | anyway back to cnc controls | 18:59 |
| DrTread | right. | 18:59 |
| fenn | the bits have to hit metal at some point | 18:59 |
| fenn | now either that happens in a microcontroller, or a realtime PC | 18:59 |
| DrTread | Yes. Microcontroller will do just fine, I think. | 18:59 |
| fenn | thing is, CNC control turns out to be a lot harder than most people imagine when they sit down and start writing microcontroller code | 19:00 |
| fenn | so, my advice, is to get an old pentium 4 desktop computer with a parallel port | 19:00 |
| fenn | and install emc2 on it | 19:00 |
| DrTread | oh, ok. why reinvent the wheel, eh? | 19:00 |
| DrTread | but at some point, technology must move on. will parallel cards be available in 5 years? | 19:01 |
| fenn | yes, as an add-on | 19:01 |
| fenn | there are PCIe parport cards | 19:01 |
| DrTread | oh, ok. | 19:01 |
| fenn | and maybe by then we will have ported emc2 to something reasonable like arm9 | 19:02 |
| fenn | $10 for a cnc control isnt too much is it? | 19:03 |
| fenn | i wish i knew more about computers | 19:03 |
| fenn | then i could just port it myself | 19:03 |
| DrTread | not at all. :) i'm sure someone will do it for us. | 19:04 |
| DrTread | Port to the Nintendo DSi | 19:04 |
| fenn | swpadnos says he will do it if someone pays him | 19:04 |
| DrTread | $5 | 19:04 |
| fenn | maybe if we wait long enough he'll just do it | 19:05 |
| DrTread | ok. i'll go make dinner. will he be finished before i get back? :p | 19:06 |
| kanzure- | fenn: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/pcr-stuff.html | 19:06 |
| kanzure- | joseph jackson has some nice comments near the bottom | 19:06 |
| kanzure- | andrew hessel also weighs in at some point | 19:07 |
| fenn | politics, politics, politics... | 19:08 |
| kanzure- | I wonder how anybody gets anything done like this | 19:09 |
| kanzure- | it's like the blind leading the blind, or something | 19:09 |
| fenn | wtf, they're afraid someone will steal their super neato idea? | 19:10 |
| kanzure- | I'm so confused | 19:10 |
| fenn | me too | 19:11 |
| fenn | looks like me and hessel are on the same page | 19:12 |
| kanzure- | ok, do people really think this is how you get stuff done? | 19:12 |
| kanzure- | fenn: joseph's comments later are the only other thing worth reading really | 19:12 |
| DrTread | nope. this is not how you get stuff done. it's how you lead others away from your real ideas so you can make lots of money by inventing everything new yourself. | 19:13 |
| fenn | i really doubt that | 19:14 |
| kanzure- | DrTread: have you seen this happen before? | 19:14 |
| kanzure- | why is it that these people think that they are making progress by hiding everything from the people that actually get shit done? | 19:15 |
| DrTread | :) all the time. | 19:15 |
| fenn | i mean these guys dont have the technical competence to invent anything, new or used | 19:15 |
| kanzure- | heh | 19:15 |
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| DrTread | it's the patent attorneys' doing. | 19:15 |
| fenn | DrTread: hey, where do they teach you about patents n stuff? | 19:16 |
| kanzure- | in federal found-me-in-the-ass prison | 19:16 |
| kanzure- | *pound | 19:16 |
| kanzure- | or found. either way. | 19:16 |
| fenn | i dont like how it's all just a big sort of intimidation factory | 19:17 |
| DrTread | kanzure- i didn't know you knew of such things! | 19:17 |
| kanzure- | I don't | 19:17 |
| DrTread | yes. what fenn said. | 19:17 |
| fenn | he saw it on a movie | 19:17 |
| DrTread | LOL | 19:17 |
| DrTread | follow the money. the ones making the money are the best patent attys & the corporations who can hire them | 19:18 |
| DrTread | ok. i'm ssrly hungry now. microwaving dinner. | 19:19 |
| kanzure- | I'd rather just follow the machinery .. | 19:19 |
| kanzure- | why is it that people assume that making up secret groups is the best way to get stuff done | 19:19 |
| kanzure- | although I guess I can use the experience with the sata lab as catalysis | 19:22 |
| kanzure- | gene's device wasn't particularly designed using reasoning | 19:22 |
| kanzure- | but for some reason we're going forward with it? | 19:22 |
| kanzure- | has any actual work occurred anywhere here? | 19:22 |
| kanzure- | someone once told me that all real work that happens in the world is because somebody sat down and solved system of partial differential equations for a project, and everything else is just bullshit | 19:23 |
| fenn | $100k to make some $10 thermocyclers.. someone can't do math | 19:23 |
| kanzure- | *solved a system of partial differential equations | 19:23 |
| kanzure- | the work to profit ratio is out of alignment apparently | 19:24 |
| fenn | that's not profit, that's research costs | 19:24 |
| drazak_ | we don't need any research | 19:24 |
| drazak_ | someone just has to build a damned prototype | 19:24 |
| fenn | USB! | 19:24 |
| fenn | um, and lazzors | 19:25 |
| fenn | if i didnt think it would work i wouldnt be reading this crap, of course | 19:26 |
| fenn | TAMU is the triangle heater with teflon tube wrapped in a spiral around it right? | 19:28 |
| kanzure- | don't know if it was a spiral or not | 19:29 |
| fenn | here's my idea for a usb lazer pcr machine | 19:29 |
| fenn | batch-based pcr segment, i dont care how you do it. probably a spiral microfluidic 4-quadrant heater/peltier thingy | 19:30 |
| fenn | then when that's done it goes into a straw shaped single lane gel cartridge | 19:30 |
| kanzure- | sure | 19:31 |
| kanzure- | where's the laser | 19:31 |
| kanzure- | you promised me a laser | 19:31 |
| fenn | the gel runs and a UV led + photodiode reads the absorbance spectrum as the dna goes by | 19:31 |
| fenn | oops s/led/laser/ | 19:31 |
| kanzure- | there actually may be a way to do it without a gel, and instead an array of tiny little posts | 19:31 |
| fenn | but that's expensive and vaporware nanotech crap | 19:31 |
| kanzure- | huh? no? | 19:31 |
| fenn | we have gels, we can make gels with grocery store items | 19:32 |
| kanzure- | the pegs could be fabricated while you're making yer spiral | 19:32 |
| kanzure- | s/fabricated/photolithographized/ | 19:32 |
| fenn | no, the spiral isnt that small | 19:32 |
| fenn | spiral only needs 20-30 turns; that can be done with laser printer toner and shrinky dink or silicone or whatever | 19:32 |
| kanzure- | huh, I wonder if you could just immobilize an array of beads instead of posts | 19:32 |
| fenn | heh like <drumroll> a gel chromatography column? | 19:33 |
| kanzure- | oh crap | 19:33 |
| fenn | anyway agarose works with short dna fragments, which i can't say for relatively low rez microfluidics thingies | 19:34 |
| kanzure- | it's kind of sad that nobody on diybio has bothered to make the uv led spectrophotometer device yet | 19:34 |
| fenn | oh i have paper access now so i can look up my paper request | 19:34 |
| fenn | for dna vs uv absorbance | 19:35 |
| kanzure- | what paper request? | 19:35 |
| kanzure- | oh, I thought we found that for you at 300 nm? | 19:35 |
| kanzure- | or something | 19:35 |
| fenn | i suppose the easiest way to do this would be to do the experiment | 19:35 |
| fenn | "keiki gels for real this time" | 19:36 |
| fenn | dammit where's my clone | 19:36 |
| kanzure- | he's over here in the closet | 19:36 |
| kanzure- | he says he wants food | 19:36 |
| fenn | arent you supposed to be harvesting brains? | 19:36 |
| kanzure- | yes | 19:36 |
| kanzure- | sorry, I'll get right on that again | 19:36 |
| fenn | ok we need a technically competent hot young intern who will work on my projects for free and feel grateful for the opportunity | 19:37 |
| fenn | preferably not schizophrenic like last time | 19:37 |
| kanzure- | surely somebody would be interested if they get something like a 10% cut in all of bryan's future earnings :p | 19:37 |
| kanzure- | but they have to be good .. | 19:37 |
| kanzure- | she has to be good, I mean | 19:38 |
| fenn | although the hotness could be a factor in the decision | 19:38 |
| fenn | 10% in all future earnings? that's ridiculous | 19:38 |
| kanzure- | 1%? | 19:38 |
| kanzure- | what is it worth to get shit done | 19:38 |
| fenn | eh. i dont know | 19:38 |
| fenn | its the 'all future earnings' that doesnt sound right | 19:38 |
| kanzure- | oh | 19:39 |
| kanzure- | yeah, that sounds like the same trap that happens in marriage | 19:39 |
| kanzure- | er, anyway | 19:39 |
| fenn | yeah i've had this conversation before | 19:39 |
| fenn | how about a transcriptionist | 19:40 |
| kanzure- | or a personal assistant | 19:40 |
| fenn | or some automated transcription software | 19:40 |
| kanzure- | I am just fine at transcribing | 19:40 |
| fenn | or even just sound recorder | 19:40 |
| kanzure- | what I need is someone to keep track of myself | 19:40 |
| fenn | an Agent | 19:41 |
| kanzure- | nah, sound recording you have to go cycle back through the data | 19:41 |
| fenn | i mean, "an agent" | 19:41 |
| kanzure- | yep, an agent | 19:41 |
| fenn | (agents dont deserve to be capitalized) | 19:41 |
| kanzure- | so it occurs to me that maybe where we're going wrong is that we're letting all this bullshit "business" get involved | 19:41 |
| kanzure- | maybe that's where things are fucking up? | 19:41 |
| fenn | get involved where? | 19:41 |
| fenn | everywhere? | 19:41 |
| kanzure- | yes | 19:41 |
| DrTread | Wow. Aparently I missed some important stuff! | 19:41 |
| fenn | i can't wipe my ass without someone calculating estimated return on investment | 19:41 |
| fenn | DrTread: just the usual scheming | 19:42 |
| DrTread | so i see. | 19:42 |
| DrTread | what is the estimate of kanzure's future earnings? $1B? | 19:42 |
| kanzure- | maybe if we cleanse ourselves of contacts with businessfolks, we could focus on other things? | 19:42 |
| DrTread | so 1% is $10M? | 19:42 |
| kanzure- | or at least for myself | 19:42 |
| fenn | depends how long he lives and whether money exists beyond 2050 | 19:42 |
| kanzure- | for someone who doesn't like money much, you're sure predicting I'll make a lot of it :p | 19:43 |
| DrTread | i'm not going to need much money by 2050, if i'm typical. | 19:43 |
| fenn | kanzure-: like getting a job in R&D at a megacorp? | 19:43 |
| fenn | or a minicorp? | 19:43 |
| kanzure- | I doubt that would make me a billionaire | 19:43 |
| fenn | as 'lead consultant kanzure industries' or something | 19:43 |
| kanzure- | unless I misunderstand something | 19:43 |
| kanzure- | heh lead consultant kanzure industries | 19:44 |
| DrTread | you could design a disk operating system for the Osborne computer | 19:44 |
| kanzure- | *10,000 emails a day of ranting* | 19:44 |
| fenn | kanzure-: i've talked with les about the whole agent thing, and apparently they don't exist or are extremely rare | 19:44 |
| fenn | and this is for just selling furniture stuffs | 19:44 |
| fenn | "i'm not going to need much money by 2050, if i'm typical" meaning what? | 19:45 |
| kanzure- | he plans to fail at life extension | 19:46 |
| fenn | boo | 19:46 |
| kanzure- | immortality or bust | 19:46 |
| fenn | what about your pet sentient corporation-grandkids? | 19:46 |
| kanzure- | ? | 19:46 |
| fenn | they have to eat money or they'll starve | 19:46 |
| fenn | vanish in a puff of smoke | 19:46 |
| fenn | kanzure-: i think a lot of the problem is people with "drive" also have a lot of "experience" they've accumulated on earth, and as a consequence have soaked up a lot of business worldview | 19:48 |
| kanzure- | what? | 19:48 |
| kanzure- | but why doesn't that drive them to just build shit instead of doing the bullshit raindance? | 19:48 |
| fenn | so then it's a choice between people who understand what you are trying to do, and people who have the wherewithal to do it | 19:49 |
| fenn | because they are caught up in business stuff instead of building it | 19:49 |
| fenn | maybe we need a buddy system | 19:50 |
| DrTread | speaking of... check out this guy: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1153299926232 | 19:50 |
| kanzure- | buddy system? | 19:50 |
| fenn | take a business person and a free love and happiness person, put them in a dark hole full of technar and see what happens | 19:50 |
| kanzure- | you mean, a patron? | 19:50 |
| fenn | patrons dont exist, as far as i can see | 19:51 |
| fenn | mythical creature, black swan | 19:51 |
| DrTread | i'm afraid that's a bit naïve. as they say, "the business of business is business." nothing more, nothing less. | 19:51 |
| fenn | DrTread: you're speaking in riddles | 19:51 |
| kanzure- | maybe I should stop assuming that anybody gets anything done in the world | 19:51 |
| kanzure- | but then how do you explain the machines that you see all over the place? | 19:52 |
| fenn | kanzure-: it would explain why we're living in the past | 19:52 |
| fenn | no jetpacks, etc | 19:52 |
| kanzure- | but then why do giant cnc machines exist? | 19:52 |
| fenn | because it's 1940's technology | 19:52 |
| kanzure- | and super awesome factories? | 19:52 |
| kanzure- | so? | 19:52 |
| fenn | pff | 19:52 |
| fenn | 'super awesome'? | 19:52 |
| kanzure- | it's not like time changes whether or not something is possible | 19:52 |
| fenn | have you actually been to any factories? | 19:52 |
| kanzure- | eh, just car factories unfortunately | 19:52 |
| kanzure- | and a few semiconductor fabs but not really | 19:53 |
| fenn | discovery channel specials do not present an unbiased selection of reality | 19:53 |
| kanzure- | so? those places still exist .. somewhere. | 19:53 |
| kanzure- | and somehow they happened. | 19:53 |
| fenn | i'm inclined to believe it's all a sham | 19:53 |
| DrTread | Giant machines all exist because they were needed for the War Effort. | 19:54 |
| fenn | and there's a guy next to the robot fixing each part where the robot messed up | 19:54 |
| fenn | wasnt there a factory they built next to the car factory to disassemble/fix/reassemble the cars coming out? | 19:54 |
| DrTread | IC chips exist for the same reason. | 19:54 |
| fenn | DrTread: good point | 19:55 |
| fenn | what we need is a War on Poverty :D | 19:55 |
| kanzure- | people still buy new machines for some reason though | 19:56 |
| kanzure- | in spite of the war | 19:56 |
| kanzure- | so that doesn't explain it | 19:56 |
| kanzure- | er, in spite of the lack of a war | 19:56 |
| kanzure- | I guess you could claim that during the time of war was when all of the real work was done | 19:57 |
| fenn | yeah pretty much | 19:59 |
| DrTread | we had a war on poverty. the Johnson administration's "Guns & Butter" campaign. | 19:59 |
| DrTread | didn't work. | 19:59 |
| fenn | because it was a joke? | 19:59 |
| fenn | 'guns and butter' for real? | 19:59 |
| DrTread | only partially. | 19:59 |
| DrTread | yes 4 realz | 19:59 |
| kanzure- | I guess I don't really believe that nothing can really get done without a war being present | 20:01 |
| DrTread | of course, as Herman Goering said, "Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat." Except he said it in German. | 20:01 |
| fenn | goering was a fatass | 20:01 |
| kanzure- | so I guess it's back to my roadmap plans for artificial in vitro meat, nuclear family dna synthesizer+sequencer combo, etc. | 20:01 |
| DrTread | indeed! | 20:01 |
| kanzure- | fenn: you showing up? | 20:01 |
| fenn | ug | 20:02 |
| kanzure- | ug ug | 20:02 |
| fenn | should i drag my assortment of earthly posessions? | 20:02 |
| fenn | i.e. car | 20:02 |
| kanzure- | um, that's up to you | 20:03 |
| kanzure- | that probably didn't help | 20:03 |
| * fenn commits to being undecided | 20:03 | |
| fenn | "opportunity cost. In a theoretical economy with only two goods, a choice must be made between how much of each good to produce. As an economy produces more guns (military spending) it must reduce its production of butter (food), and vice versa. | 20:04 |
| DrTread | isn't Wikipedia grand? | 20:04 |
| fenn | hm that came from 'investopedia' | 20:05 |
| DrTread | ah. | 20:05 |
| kanzure- | fenn: you might as well bring over your stuff. | 20:06 |
| DrTread | it sounded too high-fallutin for WP | 20:06 |
| kanzure- | since it's not much apparently | 20:06 |
| kanzure- | why can't I be a *rich* evil angry mad scientist, instead of just a relatively tool-less guy? | 20:11 |
| kanzure- | maybe I'll go make some islands a la Lex Luthor | 20:12 |
| fenn | i told you stark was a super villain didnt i | 20:12 |
| kanzure- | methods of geoengineering novel continents | 20:13 |
| kanzure- | bah, come on google scholar, work for me! | 20:13 |
| DrTread | just don't use protomatter to make your islands. sure, it's quick, but the terraformed islands quickly become unstable. | 20:17 |
| kanzure- | I'm thinking artificial volcanoe creation plus artificial triggering | 20:17 |
| fenn | how about geopolymer + pneumatically stabilized platforms | 20:17 |
| kanzure- | geopolymer? | 20:18 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geopolymer | 20:18 |
| fenn | like cement + dirt | 20:18 |
| fenn | hmm and some sort of bio generated tensile strength component is probably necessary too | 20:19 |
| fenn | hemp fibers for instance | 20:20 |
| fenn | but a marine organism would be better | 20:20 |
| kanzure- | yes | 20:20 |
| kanzure- | what about a land mass created out of manure | 20:20 |
| kanzure- | hrm, probably too hazardous | 20:20 |
| kanzure- | and that's probably why trash barges aren't being used to create islands yet | 20:21 |
| DrTread | i thought the entire state of Louisiana was made of trash barges?? | 20:21 |
| kanzure- | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Land_mass | 20:23 |
| DrTread | kanzure- is there anything about which you don't have a file of links?! | 20:24 |
| kanzure- | how to actually get stuff done | 20:25 |
| kanzure- | this is the one secret that has eluded me | 20:25 |
| DrTread | here's the link for that: http://www.brepettis.com/blog/2009/3/3/the-cult-of-done-manifesto.html | 20:27 |
| kanzure- | but bre doesn't actually know anything | 20:27 |
| kanzure- | or do much either.. | 20:28 |
| kanzure- | this also seems to encourage people to do things wrong | 20:29 |
| kanzure- | if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right | 20:29 |
| DrTread | but bre has gobs of personality. | 20:29 |
| kanzure- | and if you don't know, you might as well figure out how | 20:29 |
| kanzure- | so what? | 20:29 |
| DrTread | two words: | 20:30 |
| fenn | bre has enough personality for his own youtube ad campaign | 20:30 |
| DrTread | Britney Spears | 20:30 |
| DrTread | she could be your angel investor. | 20:30 |
| kanzure- | what? | 20:30 |
| DrTread | based solely on her personality's ability to generate cash. | 20:30 |
| kanzure- | but that has nothing to do with getting stuff done | 20:31 |
| kanzure- | you seem to be too tied up in the cult of money | 20:31 |
| DrTread | LOL So why don't i have a job, then? | 20:31 |
| DrTread | a **real** job, that is | 20:31 |
| fenn | money is correlated with getting stuff done but not causative | 20:31 |
| kanzure- | because you're too busy promoting people who have personalities that seem to suggest they don't want money but in fact they really do because they're bullshitting you since they don't actually know anything | 20:32 |
| fenn | in fact it can be downright disruptive most of the time | 20:32 |
| DrTread | hmmmm... true. | 20:32 |
| DrTread | on both counts. | 20:32 |
| DrTread | money seems to have a negative correlation with happiness. | 20:32 |
| kanzure- | yawn | 20:33 |
| kanzure- | not this again | 20:33 |
| fenn | undefinable term | 20:33 |
| fenn | system gaming infinite autocorrective feedback loop | 20:33 |
| DrTread | i don't know what it is, but i know it when i see it. | 20:33 |
| fenn | porn = wisdom | 20:33 |
| kanzure- | "dude, that guy is *wise*!" | 20:34 |
| fenn | wisdom drives technology development | 20:34 |
| * fenn shuts up | 20:34 | |
| fenn | ugh why am i reading this bre pettis crap | 20:35 |
| fenn | avast! off o my screen ye blarney goat | 20:36 |
| kanzure- | because someone has invaded your feedback loops | 20:36 |
| fenn | i dont have feedback loops, only a series of tubes | 20:36 |
| kanzure- | where do they go? | 20:36 |
| fenn | around | 20:37 |
| kanzure- | urhm, what? | 20:37 |
| DrTread | happiness: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200906/happiness | 20:37 |
| fenn | ...must.. click.. | 20:37 |
| fenn | aha, i already read it. beat that, innernet! | 20:38 |
| fenn | it was JFK | 20:38 |
| fenn | multiple gunment, grassy knoll | 20:38 |
| DrTread | one of them was. | 20:38 |
| fenn | ronald reagan was the shooter | 20:38 |
| DrTread | magic bullet, john Connolly was the shooter | 20:39 |
| DrTread | ricocheted off the windshield... | 20:39 |
| DrTread | connolly had the gun surgically implanted in his wrist, which is why he refused surgery or post mortem | 20:41 |
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| DrTread | scaring myself. this is starting to make too much sense. | 20:41 |
| genehacker | kanzure you there? | 20:42 |
| kanzure- | genehacker: yes | 20:42 |
| genehacker | where are you again? | 20:42 |
| genehacker | you had dinner? | 20:42 |
| kanzure- | no, not yet | 20:42 |
| kanzure- | I'm at the lair | 20:42 |
| genehacker | you want to go get dinner at texadelphia? | 20:43 |
| kanzure- | sure | 20:43 |
| kanzure- | now? | 20:43 |
| genehacker | how soon can you get here? | 20:43 |
| kanzure- | get where? | 20:43 |
| genehacker | I am outside ETC | 20:43 |
| kanzure- | it would take too long for me to get there, sorry | 20:43 |
| genehacker | oh well bye then | 20:44 |
| DrTread | **sigh** another MakerFaire ends without my presence. (and no, i was not going just to see bre) | 20:47 |
| kanzure- | tito claims that he was going to be doing something there | 20:47 |
| kanzure- | but he might just be bullshitting an audience | 20:48 |
| DrTread | a common passtime. | 20:48 |
| fenn | goodbye cruel internets | 20:49 |
| kanzure- | ? | 20:49 |
| fenn | packing up server | 20:49 |
| kanzure- | bring extension cords | 20:49 |
| fenn | i wish | 20:49 |
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| DrTread | i've been tied to teh computorz for too long. must recharge lazorz myselfs | 20:51 |
| DrTread | the question is: beer or scotch? | 20:51 |
| kanzure- | don't those fuck with your receptors? | 20:51 |
| DrTread | they're the little erasers on the blackboard of life. | 20:52 |
| kanzure- | is that racist somehow? | 20:52 |
| DrTread | greenboards? whiteboards? LCD screens? | 20:56 |
| DrTread | scotch it is. :D | 20:57 |
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| fenn | hofstadter's law | 21:54 |
| kanzure- | sounds unfun | 21:56 |
| kanzure- | are you sure you don't mean to invoke murphy's law? | 21:56 |
| fenn | prefer not to | 21:57 |
| fenn | let's see if i can drive 2 blocks without getting arrested | 21:57 |
| kanzure- | didn't know you were that paranoid | 21:58 |
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| DrTread | arrested? | 22:03 |
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