| --- Day changed Fri Jul 17 2009 | ||
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| kanzure | yaml.constructor.ConstructorError: expected a scalar node, but found mapping | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | in "<string>", line 6, column 12: | 00:08 |
| kanzure | blockhole: !part | 00:08 |
| kanzure | genehacker: multiple proteins from a solution | 00:08 |
| kanzure | based on mass and/or density | 00:09 |
| kanzure | (not sure which) | 00:09 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure master * r5d1467c / pymates/pymates.py : ugh, errors with pymates - http://bit.ly/6fuYm | 00:10 |
| genehacker | multiple proteins seperated? | 00:26 |
| genehacker | if so let's build one | 00:26 |
| genehacker | also check out Precision Monolithic Casting in Fluidics Quarterly 9 in the Eng Library | 00:27 |
| genehacker | will give scans later | 00:27 |
| genehacker | how about around lunch tomorrow? | 00:34 |
| kanzure | maybe. | 00:35 |
| kanzure | i need to do something in the morning, but I will probably be on campus by noon | 00:35 |
| genehacker | ok cool | 00:37 |
| kanzure | I'm not digging the MPTS crosslinks for the monoliths in the CD protein purification device | 00:38 |
| genehacker | yes me either | 00:38 |
| genehacker | sigma aldric | 00:38 |
| kanzure | *crosslinker | 00:38 |
| genehacker | you mean what they used for the colum | 00:39 |
| genehacker | n | 00:39 |
| kanzure | yes | 00:39 |
| kanzure | I'd like to see a micrograph of the column. | 00:39 |
| kanzure | oh wait they had one in the paper | 00:39 |
| genehacker | it's some weird silicon compound | 00:40 |
| genehacker | maybe DRT could make it | 00:40 |
| genehacker | you have >3 ochem books | 00:40 |
| genehacker | can I borrow one | 00:40 |
| kanzure | which one | 00:40 |
| genehacker | anyone | 00:40 |
| kanzure | um. sure. I recommend the PDFs though. | 00:40 |
| kanzure | you sure you want a physical book? | 00:40 |
| kanzure | dead tree format | 00:41 |
| genehacker | PDFs? | 00:41 |
| genehacker | where? | 00:41 |
| genehacker | fork em over! | 00:41 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/Chemistry/ | 00:41 |
| kanzure | i think the principle of their MTPS-crosslinked column may be similar to the logarithm involved in gel electrophoresis | 00:41 |
| genehacker | what? | 00:42 |
| kanzure | it doesn't look like hte proteins have any particular chemical interaction with the column | 00:42 |
| genehacker | oh | 00:42 |
| kanzure | do you remember the experiment in physics class where you would have this bed board of nails, | 00:42 |
| genehacker | well duh | 00:42 |
| kanzure | you would put it on an elevation | 00:42 |
| genehacker | yes | 00:42 |
| kanzure | and then roll marbles down and track where they would land with a probability distribution | 00:42 |
| kanzure | I suspect that's what's going on here | 00:43 |
| genehacker | ummmm | 00:43 |
| genehacker | more like gel electrophoresis | 00:43 |
| genehacker | where heavier stuff goes slower | 00:44 |
| genehacker | or do you not get the principle of gel electrophoresis | 00:44 |
| genehacker | or do I not understand what you're talking about? | 00:45 |
| kanzure | gel electrophoresis can be described by a logarithm | 00:45 |
| genehacker | how so? | 00:46 |
| genehacker | give me the formula | 00:47 |
| kanzure | small fragments travel much faster than large fragments | 00:47 |
| kanzure | consider the ferguson plot | 00:48 |
| kanzure | http://www.his.com/~djt/ferguson.gif | 00:48 |
| genehacker | heybryan is down | 00:48 |
| genehacker | and that shows? | 00:49 |
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| kanzure | it should be back up | 00:49 |
| kanzure | it's the log of mobility versus gel concentration | 00:49 |
| genehacker | yup | 00:49 |
| kanzure | guess that's not as helpfulexplaining it | 00:49 |
| genehacker | mobility goes WAY DOWN with gel concentration? | 00:50 |
| genehacker | got it | 00:50 |
| kanzure | http://www.aesociety.org/areas/ferguson.php | 00:50 |
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| kanzure | with infinite gel concentration, mobility hits zero | 00:50 |
| genehacker | FUNDAMENTALS OF NUCLEATION AND GROWTH | 00:50 |
| genehacker | FUCK YEAH | 00:50 |
| genehacker | that's on my homework | 00:50 |
| genehacker | oh wait maybe not | 00:52 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure master * r257b63a / pymates/monday.py : it would be nice if this worked by monday - http://bit.ly/ifxf1 | 01:02 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: Meredith L. Patterson master * r0047918 / docs/mlp-workingnotes : | 01:08 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: Committer: Meredith L. Patterson | 01:08 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: On branch master | 01:08 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: Changes to be committed: | 01:08 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: (use "git reset HEAD <file>..." to unstage) | 01:08 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: new file: docs/mlp-workingnotes - http://bit.ly/5ndE2 | 01:08 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: kanzure master * re684bc8 / wiki/views.py : merged maradydd's notes - http://bit.ly/btAfY | 01:08 |
| genehacker | ??? | 01:13 |
| genehacker | where can I access the chat logs | 03:26 |
| genehacker | heh | 03:29 |
| genehacker | eznurak | 03:29 |
| fenn | why does cia say "changes to be committed:" | 05:07 |
| fenn | i wish one could add comments to comments | 05:09 |
| fenn | it'd probably just turn into some sort of torah-splosion | 05:09 |
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| fenn | i must admit i dont see the point of this http://gitorious.org/free-manufacturing | 06:34 |
| fenn | nor do i understand smari's reply, which seems non-sequitur | 06:34 |
| Smari | fenn, It was an attempt to guide him onto the right track without outright saying that he was barking up the wrong tree. | 06:35 |
| Smari | besides, he isn't. | 06:35 |
| Smari | What he's done so far is fairly good | 06:39 |
| fenn | is there a human-readable view of the latex somewhere? | 06:39 |
| fenn | i dont actually know how to render latex | 06:40 |
| Smari | hang on, I'll do it. | 06:40 |
| Smari | By all means learn it. It's a good typesetting system. | 06:41 |
| fenn | bah | 06:41 |
| Smari | it's on its way... | 06:41 |
| fenn | asciidoc does everything i want | 06:41 |
| Smari | that must mean that you do not want normal people to read your documents. Nor have pretty equations. Nor have beautiful diagrams or good margins or awesome PDF files. | 06:42 |
| fenn | you know i really hate "pretty equations" with a passion | 06:42 |
| Smari | haha | 06:42 |
| Smari | why? | 06:42 |
| fenn | and latex always seems to make this bobbly up-down text which nobody but me ever mentions | 06:43 |
| fenn | Smari: they assume you know wtf they mean in the first place | 06:43 |
| Smari | fenn, don't confuse pretty equations with arrogant mathematicians. | 06:43 |
| fenn | how am i supposed to know what "d" stands for, or that funny squiggle, or your particular arrangement of glyphs | 06:43 |
| fenn | there's no sense to it | 06:44 |
| fenn | its 100% pure arbitrary convention | 06:44 |
| Smari | So is writing in general, isn't it? | 06:44 |
| fenn | at least i can look up words | 06:44 |
| Smari | You can look up notation too. | 06:44 |
| fenn | how do you look up glyphs positioned with respect o another? | 06:44 |
| Smari | mathematical notation has been very much improved over the last 100 years, but it still suffers from its users being very arrogant and not wanting to spend time explaining what the hell they mean. | 06:44 |
| Smari | Juxtaposition bears context, which, if you understand the functionality encoded in a glyph, you will also understand. | 06:45 |
| fenn | how do you look up notation? | 06:45 |
| Smari | How do you look up symbols in general? | 06:48 |
| Smari | When encountered with, say, the greek letter xi, how do you know what it is? | 06:48 |
| Smari | http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html <-- this helps. | 06:48 |
| Smari | http://smari.yaxic.org/fmas.pdf | 06:49 |
| fenn | doesnt detexify require me to have the latex source in the first place? | 06:51 |
| Smari | if you don't like equations, how do you signify things like, oh, say, Maxwell's equations? | 06:51 |
| fenn | that is to say, not a "pretty equation" | 06:51 |
| fenn | i just dont like the hieroglyphics | 06:51 |
| fenn | math is cool | 06:51 |
| Smari | So you're okay with integral symbols and 'dx' and division lines and subscripts and powers and all that? | 06:52 |
| fenn | but most equations would generate a "error: foo is undefined" if a computer tried to read it | 06:52 |
| fenn | (and the surrounding text) | 06:52 |
| fenn | Smari: NO that's the crap i'm against | 06:53 |
| Smari | That's because computers trying to parse that typically don't have the ability to realize abstract relationships. | 06:53 |
| Smari | They expect every variable to have a value. | 06:53 |
| fenn | there's nothing abstract about it | 06:53 |
| Smari | Are you saying that y = a+bx is not abstract? | 06:53 |
| Smari | That that particular formula is completely useless without the granted context of the symbols having values? | 06:54 |
| fenn | the problem with that is you dont know which symbols are constants | 06:54 |
| Smari | Then assume none to be. | 06:54 |
| fenn | you have to 'just know' that x is a variable and b is a constant | 06:54 |
| Smari | x need not be a variable, b need not be a constant. | 06:54 |
| fenn | fine | 06:54 |
| Smari | You could plot that function for varying values of b and a.. | 06:55 |
| fenn | but 99% of the time, an arrogant mathematician will expect you to know that you're parameterizing x | 06:55 |
| Smari | yeah, I agree that that is a very bad thing. | 06:55 |
| Smari | I generally don't disagree with you on this.. it is very arbitrary. | 06:55 |
| fenn | see "zen of python" etc etc | 06:56 |
| Smari | but I'm trying to convey that in this case the price of criticism is a viable alternative. | 06:56 |
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| fenn | er, please reformulate that last sentence | 06:56 |
| Smari | Show me a sensible contextual syntax with which I can describe, to grab an model at random from the book beside me, Padé approximants. | 06:57 |
| fenn | well, lisp is one example.. | 06:57 |
| fenn | not that i'm saying everyone should switch to lisp overnight | 06:57 |
| Smari | Where everything looks the same; very horrible to visually parse. | 06:58 |
| Smari | The thing about math notation is that it's whiteboard friendly. | 06:58 |
| fenn | (and only whiteboard friendly) | 06:58 |
| Smari | And for people like mathematicians who do all of their thinking on whiteboards, that's fine. | 06:58 |
| Smari | As long as they realize that it's only one of many possible notations. | 06:58 |
| fenn | i just wish it didnt creep into everything else | 06:59 |
| Smari | One of my professors once ran through a proof in symbolic logic that you could, logically and without contradiction, use the same symbol repeatedly in a logical statement with different meanings. | 06:59 |
| fenn | dammit there ought to be download/executable source for every engineering paper | 06:59 |
| Smari | but yes, most notation does suck. I don't know how often I've been confused by notation of something relatively simple... and I'm with Lockhart on the issue that teaching notation should be secondary to teaching mathematics. | 07:00 |
| Smari | A lot of schools teach notation as if it were mathematics. | 07:01 |
| Smari | Teach kids to manipulate symbols in a notational grammar, without understanding the underlying abstraction. | 07:01 |
| fenn | 93 pages in category Mathematical Notation | 07:01 |
| fenn | i'm glad computers can't parse hieroglyphics | 07:02 |
| Smari | you hit a kid over the head with (a+b)² = a²+2ab+b² often enough and he'll remember it and possibly be able to use it, but it won't do him a bit of good because he won't understand it unless he starts playing around with it and explores the implications. | 07:02 |
| Smari | Actually.. have you seen Fortress? | 07:02 |
| Smari | http://research.sun.com/projects/plrg/PLDITutorialSlides9Jun2006.pdf | 07:03 |
| Smari | Check it out. | 07:03 |
| fenn | wasnt that sort of the point of haskell? but without all the icky symbols | 07:04 |
| fenn | "program structure should reflect the science" | 07:05 |
| Smari | Dude. You can't even open a file in Haskell without resorting to Voodoo. | 07:09 |
| Smari | Haskell doesn't reflect any science except computer science. | 07:09 |
| Smari | I would love to see somebody try to write something like haplotype association analysis software in Haskell. | 07:10 |
| fenn | actually that sounds like something it'd be good at | 07:10 |
| fenn | factoring large sets | 07:11 |
| Smari | Perhaps. | 07:11 |
| Smari | Still sounds like a very far-fetched thing.. | 07:11 |
| Smari | Lunchtime. Let's see if I can find some food. | 07:12 |
| fenn | "maybe you should have to ask for sequential execution" (from fortress) | 07:12 |
| Smari | isn't it like, 7 in the morning for you? | 07:12 |
| fenn | yes, i got up a couple hours ago | 07:12 |
| Smari | Damnit, my falafel isn't hot through | 07:19 |
| Smari | rushing too much | 07:19 |
| fenn | burn it! burn it all! | 07:19 |
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| kanzure | Smari: you can't generally google an equation. | 07:43 |
| Smari | kanzure, agreed. | 07:45 |
| fenn | paul hasnt been writing to OM, maybe that's why it seems much more topical than usual | 07:45 |
| Smari | hahaha | 07:46 |
| Smari | I don't know which is funnier.. that you should make that connection, or that you should consider it to be currently topical. | 07:48 |
| kanzure | it's just sad that paul is so far off track | 07:49 |
| kanzure | so that can't be it:) | 07:49 |
| fenn | Smari: well i'm quite excited about that cable based dremel thingy | 07:50 |
| fenn | maybe i've just been seduced by the video production | 07:51 |
| Smari | fenn, me too. I set it as "featured video" on the fablab.is/wiki | 07:52 |
| Smari | Before that there was no such thing as a "featured video" on the wiki ;) | 07:52 |
| fenn | heh | 07:52 |
| kanzure | huh didn't know fablab.is had a wiki | 07:52 |
| kanzure | it would be nice plugin for djangit to have git-pull requests for documentation from multiple wikis or something for a common fablab namespace | 07:53 |
| kanzure | just a pipe dream | 07:53 |
| fenn | that's what samrose is on about "flows" | 07:53 |
| fenn | git seems to work well enough for the linux kernel | 07:54 |
| Smari | kanzure, the wiki is the only thing I touch on fablab.is; the rest is managed by an ass-backwards web management system that only works in Internet Explorer. | 07:54 |
| Smari | Not my choice. | 07:54 |
| Smari | Company policy. | 07:54 |
| Smari | Another reason for why I'm quitting. | 07:54 |
| fenn | news, drama! | 07:55 |
| fenn | what could be more exciting than running a fab-lab in the middle of the ocean? | 07:55 |
| kanzure | on this episode of hplusroadmap, smari meets the league of doom and faces a tough decision | 07:55 |
| fenn | Smari: did Kokompe ever go anywhere? | 07:56 |
| kanzure | fenn, do you know what this error is really saying? | 08:04 |
| kanzure | yaml.constructor.ConstructorError: expected a scalar node, but found mapping | 08:04 |
| kanzure | in "<string>", line 6, column 12: | 08:04 |
| kanzure | blockhole: !part | 08:04 |
| fenn | it's probably the line before it | 08:05 |
| fenn | is that code up somewhere? | 08:06 |
| kanzure | yes, it's in pymates/models/blockhole.yaml | 08:06 |
| kanzure | and the error is generated when running pymates/tests.py | 08:06 |
| fenn | where are you pushing to lately, github? | 08:06 |
| kanzure | for some reason when I push to /var/www/skdb.git/ my git wants to push to /var/www/skdb/ | 08:06 |
| kanzure | it's up to date on hte server | 08:06 |
| kanzure | *the | 08:07 |
| fenn | urls: | 08:08 |
| fenn | - 'http://heybryan.org/' | 08:08 |
| kanzure | ? | 08:08 |
| fenn | uh wait nevermind | 08:08 |
| Smari | fenn, not really. | 08:12 |
| kanzure | it might be because of the word scalar in my pymates.py code | 08:12 |
| Smari | fenn, The project died because most of the people involved had never worked on a distributed free software project before and therefore didn't know how to use mailing lists and chatrooms effectively. :P | 08:13 |
| Smari | fenn, there is a fairly neat bunch of code though.. | 08:13 |
| Smari | A pretty powerful CSG engine that is just begging to be used for something real. | 08:13 |
| kanzure | CSG? really? | 08:14 |
| kanzure | can you link to that? | 08:14 |
| fenn | is this code available for mere mortals to share/modify? | 08:14 |
| fenn | cam.py had some weird license | 08:14 |
| Smari | 3cm/minute, 30 cm, ... 90 minutes. | 08:14 |
| Smari | fenn, MIT license, not very weird. | 08:14 |
| Smari | I don't know where the git currently lives... | 08:15 |
| kanzure | Smari: that whole "don't know how to collaborate" issue has come up with the diybio folks too :/ | 08:15 |
| kanzure | Smari: you should wrangle your code more effectively | 08:15 |
| Smari | another cause of it dying is that the repo kept getting moved around without anybody being notified. | 08:15 |
| fenn | in particular cam.py said "Permission granted for experimental and personal use;" | 08:15 |
| fenn | whatever that means | 08:16 |
| Smari | we originally hosted it on the MIT Media Lab cluster, but that crashed (!) and it got pushed to davidad.net, and from there somewhere else. | 08:16 |
| kanzure | davidad.net is david dalrymple | 08:16 |
| kanzure | hah | 08:16 |
| fenn | i thought the point of universities was that they hosted stuff for you | 08:17 |
| Smari | kanzure, yup | 08:17 |
| kanzure | i stalked david last year and met him | 08:17 |
| Smari | haha | 08:17 |
| Smari | I met him for the first time in Norway. | 08:17 |
| kanzure | bachelors degree at age 12, CBA by age 15, taught by kurzweil and gershenfeld-- I hated him immediately | 08:17 |
| kanzure | (I kid, I kid) | 08:18 |
| * kanzure has been jealous | 08:18 | |
| Smari | Second time in Chicago, third time in Boston. It seems that I never meet Fab Lab folks twice in the same country. | 08:18 |
| Smari | (Boston is in Massachusetts, Chicago is in Illinois. I don't consider federations to be countries) | 08:18 |
| kanzure | wouldn't have guessed by anarchism.is | 08:19 |
| Smari | ;) | 08:19 |
| Smari | laser etching marble is coming out at a loss. | 08:19 |
| kanzure | could you find the repo? that would be hot | 08:19 |
| Smari | yeah | 08:19 |
| Smari | or | 08:19 |
| Smari | rather | 08:19 |
| Smari | I'll make a tarball and share it | 08:20 |
| fenn | repo would be better eventually | 08:20 |
| Smari | true | 08:20 |
| Smari | but I don't have one at the moment ;) | 08:20 |
| Smari | Hmm. | 08:20 |
| * fenn has to go pretend to do stuff | 08:20 | |
| Smari | Are you guys familiar with Forrest Green perchance? | 08:20 |
| Smari | He's from Austin methinks. | 08:21 |
| Smari | uploading the tarball now.. perhaps I should have "make clean" in it first, but I didn't, so there. | 08:22 |
| kanzure | people like you who don't 'make clean' are the reason why .. somethings omething something | 08:23 |
| kanzure | I'm sure you can come up with something sufficiently insulting there | 08:23 |
| Smari | Woah | 08:24 |
| Smari | There's some very neat stuff in there. | 08:24 |
| kanzure | oh? | 08:24 |
| Smari | I had forgotten about a lot of it. | 08:24 |
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| Smari | okay, uploaded with objects :P | 08:30 |
| Smari | http://smari.yaxic.org/kokompe.tar.gz | 08:30 |
| Smari | a lot of the beauty resides in engine/ | 08:31 |
| Smari | there's some UI attempts in other directories, mostly failed | 08:31 |
| Smari | http://i32.tinypic.com/beiu10.jpg | 08:32 |
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| kanzure | 37MB? | 08:41 |
| Smari | *shrug* | 08:41 |
| kanzure | I am sometimes surprised about how large sources can get | 08:42 |
| kanzure | for instance, I recall firefox being something like 150 MB | 08:42 |
| Smari | Uncompressed it contains 29 MB of testcases. | 08:43 |
| kanzure | O.o | 08:43 |
| kanzure | huh, david dalrymple actually contributed code? | 08:43 |
| samrose | hey kanzure, how are the grammars we discussed yesterday generally generated? | 08:43 |
| kanzure | oh, I thought this was the silly desktop environment thingy for semantic webs | 08:43 |
| Smari | kanzure, yes? | 08:43 |
| kanzure | samrose: you should read graphsynth.com I guess. but allow me to explain. | 08:43 |
| samrose | I am reading now | 08:43 |
| samrose | looks like they enter in | 08:44 |
| Smari | kanzure, so more than half of the archive is just .stl files, etc. | 08:44 |
| samrose | to tables | 08:44 |
| kanzure | samrose: in graph grammars, there are sets of rules. a "rule" is basically a search-and-replace rule that finds something like on the left and then replaces what it finds with the right | 08:44 |
| kanzure | so yes, a domain expert has to come up with the grammar rules | 08:44 |
| kanzure | however, recently one of the programs that Tanin has been working on in the lab | 08:44 |
| kanzure | is a way to automatically extract rules from a graph | 08:44 |
| samrose | based on Chomsky's theories, looks like | 08:44 |
| kanzure | given something like "what the graph generically solves" and "the actual solution" | 08:44 |
| kanzure | yes | 08:44 |
| kanzure | (one of the boxes in the lab is named chomsky) | 08:45 |
| kanzure | so there's this tree of possibilities that is generated | 08:45 |
| samrose | does the automatic extraction use Natural Language Processing by chance? | 08:45 |
| kanzure | by successive application of different recognized left-hand sides | 08:45 |
| samrose | ah | 08:45 |
| kanzure | samrose: I don't know what that means | 08:45 |
| kanzure | in the case of rule extraction, there are two graphs that are being worked with | 08:45 |
| samrose | I have been working with natural language processing as a way to auto tag content | 08:46 |
| samrose | and looking at graphsynth, it made me think that it could apply to these grammars | 08:46 |
| kanzure | (1) a "Function Structure Graph" which shows nodes and edges connecting together to symbolically represent something like "import human energy, convert to mechanical energy" | 08:46 |
| kanzure | (2) the "Component Structure Graph" (CSG) | 08:46 |
| kanzure | er, CFG. Component Flow Graph or Configuration Flow Graph | 08:46 |
| kanzure | anyway, the CFG is where you see parts connected to one another that solve something in the Function Structure Graph | 08:46 |
| kanzure | so in automatic rule extraction it's something like taking a look at the tags in the CFG and look at what functions they claim to be solving | 08:47 |
| kanzure | and from there you can extract possible new rules to try out on your data set | 08:47 |
| samrose | I see | 08:47 |
| samrose | that is really awesome | 08:47 |
| kanzure | fenn and I think it's kind of lame | 08:47 |
| kanzure | it works though | 08:47 |
| kanzure | but not for actual engineering | 08:48 |
| samrose | Well, the concept is interesting | 08:48 |
| samrose | if you are interested in networks, stuff like that | 08:48 |
| kanzure | right | 08:48 |
| samrose | the evolutionary design that I have been keeping track of works with different data | 08:49 |
| samrose | but the process is somewhat similar | 08:49 |
| kanzure | Smari: looks like you have some algebraic classes in kokompe for some reason. did you consider sympy? | 08:51 |
| Smari | kanzure, no we didn't. The algebra in kokompe is a real interval algebra that nobody seems to have devised in software before... at least not freely available. | 08:52 |
| kanzure | literature references? | 08:52 |
| Smari | There's a file there somewhere, OpenCAD.pdf, which is a slideshow from a talk I gave in Chicago that explains the concept. | 08:52 |
| kanzure | okay, thanks | 08:53 |
| samrose | I wonder if this rule extraction could work with natural language processing. So that you could take something like skdb data, and process it first, then sort based on names, verbs etc etc, then train a program to use this to build rules. | 08:53 |
| kanzure | samrose: did you see monday.py? | 08:53 |
| samrose | nat lang processing outputs data like this http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing/blog/stanford-parser | 08:53 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/257b63a5f99b33582dec43c7fc39af179eb2dc48/pymates/monday.py | 08:53 |
| Smari | kanzure, that said, it was made in OpenOffice, so it might exist as .odp or even (gasp!) .ppt | 08:54 |
| kanzure | so, compatibility is a method that I'm supposedly writing | 08:54 |
| kanzure | which will figure out whether or not two parts can be combined | 08:54 |
| kanzure | this is not the same thing as a grammar rule really | 08:54 |
| kanzure | one idea for "automated design" that I've been meaning to flesh out more thoroughly goes something like this.. | 08:54 |
| kanzure | there are all sorts of protocols in biology and other industries | 08:55 |
| kanzure | even in cooking, and each requires different instruments at different calibrations | 08:55 |
| kanzure | and different parameterizations | 08:55 |
| kanzure | so it would be hot if you could somehow figure out a chain of parts or tools that effectively implement the same solution | 08:55 |
| kanzure | even if they look different | 08:55 |
| kanzure | so, for instance, there's this peanut-butter-jelly functionCAD file running around here somewhere on mst.edu (somewhere)- it shows the process or recipe of making a PBJ sandwhich. but you could implement the machine with a giant toaster-thingy, or you could have someone in a kitchen carry it out | 08:56 |
| kanzure | so it might not be rule-building, but the end result- a sort of 'automated' design- is kind of the same | 08:56 |
| samrose | yes, this seems dependent on how "solution" is represented | 08:57 |
| samrose | what I mean: | 08:57 |
| samrose | how a machine can compare outcomes | 08:57 |
| kanzure | if you're interested in the comparison of outcomes, | 08:58 |
| kanzure | there's a paper that I have been writing on that | 08:58 |
| samrose | and know a similar solution has been acheived | 08:58 |
| kanzure | I turned it in last friday | 08:58 |
| kanzure | see the "clustering" header here: | 08:58 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/scripts | 08:58 |
| kanzure | we did a comparison of designs via something called a DSM | 08:58 |
| kanzure | an adjacency matrix of components from the database | 08:58 |
| kanzure | and then took the euclidean norm of the matrix difference | 08:58 |
| kanzure | and called this the "difference" | 08:58 |
| samrose | I am familiar with clustering | 08:58 |
| samrose | interesting | 08:59 |
| kanzure | there are also some other distance-metrics, like principle-component analysis | 08:59 |
| kanzure | which should definitely be incorporated | 08:59 |
| kanzure | (I threw together k-means clustering of the euclidean distance metrics. Nothing spectacularly interesting.) | 08:59 |
| Smari | I've got a paper to write later on on the ferry: "An infrastructure-centric view of the Icelandic financial collapse"... I'm not sure whether to write it in English or Icelandic though. | 09:00 |
| Smari | Yay, I can't wait for today's ferry ride! | 09:00 |
| kanzure | ferry ride off or on to the island? | 09:00 |
| Smari | off | 09:00 |
| Smari | Going home for the weekend. | 09:00 |
| samrose | where is "home"? | 09:00 |
| Smari | 3 hours out at sea, just me, my laptop, loud music, no Internet. :) | 09:00 |
| Smari | Reykjavík. | 09:01 |
| Smari | but I work in Vestmannaeyjar until the 7th of August. | 09:01 |
| Smari | It's about 4 hours travel between the two places... 3 hours by ferry and an hour's drive... I go home when I can, which is mostly just weekends. | 09:01 |
| samrose | heh, this is pretty innovative if you ask me http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/scripts | 09:02 |
| samrose | what you outline there | 09:02 |
| samrose | Smari maybe will be a calm evening too | 09:02 |
| samrose | weatherwise | 09:03 |
| Smari | samrose, yeah. It's been calm all week. I was hoping to go out ribbing this week but things didn't pan out.. | 09:03 |
| samrose | got this book from K ̄rlis Repsons via email | 09:05 |
| samrose | heh, not sure what happened there | 09:05 |
| samrose | "Free Manufacturing" | 09:06 |
| Smari | Yeah | 09:06 |
| Smari | did you get the .pdf? | 09:06 |
| samrose | yes | 09:07 |
| samrose | thanks | 09:07 |
| samrose | he seems to be talking about what we are talking about | 09:08 |
| samrose | there are some "rules" that he is asserting that I don't agree with... | 09:12 |
| samrose | but, it is interesting never the less | 09:12 |
| Smari | yeah | 09:16 |
| Smari | I don't think he's barking up the wrong tree, I think he's just making too many false assumptions.. | 09:17 |
| Smari | He's also trying to apply terms like "axiom" to situations where they don't apply. | 09:20 |
| samrose | Yes, I think you could point to construction by bees, ants, other insects to prove some of his rules wrong | 09:32 |
| samrose | for instance | 09:32 |
| Smari | yup | 09:37 |
| fenn | woah 8MB/s from yaxic.org | 09:40 |
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| Smari | fenn, I have good tubes. | 10:21 |
| drazak | kanzure: any luck on any of those papers? | 10:41 |
| fenn | drazak plz post a link to the urls again | 10:42 |
| drazak | Http://drazak.net/~drazak/pubmedlist.txt | 10:43 |
| drazak | my uncle found me Discher, Putra, and Malchesky | 10:43 |
| kanzure | I don't mean to be "that guy", but, where the hell did my mailbox go | 10:44 |
| fenn | bulldozed | 10:44 |
| fenn | there's some letter on the counter about it | 10:45 |
| fenn | drazak: how do i get full text from that page? | 10:45 |
| drazak | fenn: you're looking at teh wrong guy | 10:45 |
| kanzure | pubmed does not give you full text | 10:45 |
| drazak | no idea | 10:45 |
| kanzure | pubmedcentral does | 10:45 |
| kanzure | pubmed just gives you abstracts | 10:45 |
| kanzure | if you gave a list of pubmed abstract links, fuck you | 10:45 |
| kanzure | you deserve to not get the papers :p | 10:45 |
| kanzure | but you can try pubget.com | 10:46 |
| kanzure | http://pubget.com/ | 10:46 |
| kanzure | it largely only works for pubmedcentral | 10:46 |
| fenn | i figured it out | 10:46 |
| kanzure | ? | 10:47 |
| fenn | you click on the logo of the journal | 10:47 |
| drazak | eh | 10:47 |
| drazak | I don't think you guys will have much luck, not that I think about it | 10:47 |
| drazak | my uncles harvard journal collection thing only found 3 of them | 10:47 |
| drazak | I wanted teh other ones, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to get them | 10:48 |
| drazak | s/not/now/ | 10:48 |
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| kanzure | fenn: any ideas about my bug | 10:54 |
| fenn | drazak i got 1 2 3 4 6 7 9 | 10:54 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/drazak.zip | 10:56 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure master * ra401efc / pymates/monday.py : want some overloads eventually - http://bit.ly/9Atkx | 10:57 |
| * kanzure needs to figure out how to add some hooks | 10:58 | |
| drazak | fenn: thanks dude | 10:59 |
| fenn | gosh kanzure how did you manage to write such broken code in so few lines | 11:05 |
| kanzure | what's so broken? | 11:05 |
| kanzure | weird I looked up my error message and got to here: | 11:13 |
| kanzure | http://pyyaml.org/ticket/79 | 11:13 |
| kanzure | which was submitted by clay@shirky.org | 11:13 |
| kanzure | i think I'm supposed to know that name | 11:14 |
| kanzure | yay got it to suck slightly less | 11:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: pull please | 11:24 |
| kanzure | merge conflict in pymates/pymates.py. /me investigates | 11:25 |
| kanzure | ah, looks like we both made Part.__init__ slightly better | 11:26 |
| kanzure | heh I like how we made the same damn changes | 11:26 |
| fenn | yay python | 11:26 |
| kanzure | what does loader.construct_mapping() do that loader.construct_scalar() doesn't? | 11:26 |
| fenn | constructs a mapping instead of a scalar | 11:27 |
| kanzure | gee thanks | 11:27 |
| * fenn wonders how to explain this | 11:27 | |
| kanzure | why does python care about the difference though | 11:27 |
| kanzure | gah our timestamps are off | 11:28 |
| kanzure | you committed one minute into the future of when I committed the fixed merge | 11:28 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure master * rbb9c88a / (pymates/monday.py pymates/pymates.py): make it suck slightly less - http://bit.ly/1Jn8e | 11:29 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: fenn master * r0b6ccdd / pymates/pymates.py : construct_scalar only works for scalar values.. who woulda thought - http://bit.ly/zG92M | 11:29 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure master * rf897824 / pymates/pymates.py : fixed merge issues. gee. - http://bit.ly/69uye | 11:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: there's a way that you can add cia.vc to oyour post-commit hook | 11:36 |
| kanzure | *your | 11:36 |
| fenn | i'm sure there is | 11:37 |
| fenn | would you rather have cia reposrt status of adl than github? | 11:37 |
| kanzure | yeah | 11:38 |
| kanzure | although the github links are niece | 11:38 |
| kanzure | *nice | 11:38 |
| fenn | what does the hook look like? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | it was a clicky button pressy interface on github | 11:38 |
| fenn | oh | 11:38 |
| kanzure | apparently you have to download a script and call the script from your commit hook | 11:38 |
| * fenn looks | 11:39 | |
| kanzure | registration for skdb and cia is open to anyone though, no passwords on http://cia.vc/ by default. | 11:39 |
| fenn | um really? it's asking me for user/pass | 11:40 |
| kanzure | you still have to log in anyway | 11:40 |
| kanzure | it's so that they can yell at you if you disrupt an actual project | 11:40 |
| fenn | i'm thoroughly confused | 11:41 |
| fenn | why do you keep turning wondershaper off | 11:41 |
| kanzure | when you log in, you add a project to yourself | 11:41 |
| kanzure | wondershaper isn't off | 11:41 |
| fenn | then why are you getting 1000ms ping times | 11:42 |
| kanzure | and if it was, I just turned it back on | 11:42 |
| kanzure | I'm getting 500 ms ping times to google | 11:42 |
| fenn | it looked like you were messing with it and now it's back to ~1500ms | 11:44 |
| kanzure | why does it suck so much | 11:45 |
| fenn | because you're overloading it, for the fiftieth time | 11:46 |
| kanzure | what am I overloading it with | 11:47 |
| kanzure | ooh scarry irc text | 11:47 |
| kanzure | scary | 11:47 |
| fenn | heybryan.org why do you think i keep turning it off | 11:47 |
| kanzure | what's the point of telling me to use wondershaper if that doesn't fix it | 11:48 |
| fenn | because you arent using wondershaper? | 11:48 |
| kanzure | but I am using wondershaper | 11:48 |
| kanzure | wondershaper eth1 400 400 is what we found "worked" | 11:48 |
| kanzure | but apparently it's not working anymore? | 11:48 |
| fenn | but you aren't, because when you say you turn it on, it works | 11:49 |
| fenn | can you read a ping result? | 11:49 |
| kanzure | the time= part? | 11:49 |
| fenn | here's the procedure | 11:49 |
| fenn | ping google.com, turn wondershaper upload down until ping time is reasonable (<250ms) | 11:49 |
| fenn | then add that to your local bootup script | 11:50 |
| kanzure | average roundtrip is 189.47 ms | 11:50 |
| kanzure | isn't that reasonable? | 11:50 |
| fenn | do ping from a different computer | 11:50 |
| fenn | wondershaper favors its own short packets | 11:51 |
| kanzure | okay | 11:51 |
| fenn | whatever it's at now is good | 11:51 |
| kanzure | wondershaper eth1 200 200 | 11:52 |
| kanzure | (fyi) | 11:52 |
| fenn | try 400 just out of curiosity | 11:52 |
| kanzure | it was at 400 previously | 11:53 |
| kanzure | ok. set to 400. | 11:53 |
| kanzure | ok reset to 200. | 11:53 |
| fenn | wow i thought 400 would work | 11:54 |
| kanzure | so apparently 50 kbps breaks the router :p | 11:54 |
| kanzure | but 25 kbps doesn't | 11:54 |
| fenn | yeah typically they have an upload of about 40kB/s | 11:55 |
| genehacker | http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/ | 11:58 |
| genehacker | electron beam on chip | 11:58 |
| genehacker | kanzure how do I access the chat log? | 11:58 |
| kanzure | do you keep your own logs? | 12:01 |
| kanzure | chatzilla can do logging for you | 12:02 |
| kanzure | so if so you just look on your hard drive | 12:02 |
| kanzure | if you do not do your own logging, then you have to pray to ybit | 12:02 |
| genehacker | shoot | 12:11 |
| genehacker | I posted something a while back about a bacteria that produces toluene | 12:12 |
| genehacker | or did it? | 12:12 |
| genehacker | wikipedia article has no info on it | 12:12 |
| kanzure | fenn: when I load something from yaml, all of the attributes go into the first named parameter of my object. why? | 12:13 |
| fenn | mapping is wrong? | 12:14 |
| genehacker | heh | 12:15 |
| kanzure | fenn: what mapping is wrong? | 12:15 |
| genehacker | that AB matter has an ultimate tensile strength of 160 wekanewtons per square meter | 12:15 |
| kanzure | i sure hope that's not an si unit | 12:16 |
| genehacker | it is | 12:16 |
| genehacker | weka is 10^30 | 12:16 |
| genehacker | of something | 12:16 |
| genehacker | a cable of 1 square meter of AB matter would weigh ALOT | 12:18 |
| genehacker | but one needs AB matter to produce it industrially | 12:19 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: * r3656f597af8d /change.txt: yet another test of cia script | 12:20 |
| fenn | about fucking time | 12:20 |
| genehacker | unless there's some super neutron mirror | 12:21 |
| fenn | now how did that take an hour i wonder | 12:23 |
| genehacker | huh I'm a bit suspicious now | 12:25 |
| genehacker | calculations of neutron star matter UTS is about 4.4*10^18 newtons/m^2 | 12:26 |
| fenn | yep | 12:27 |
| genehacker | they say 10 billion times the strongest steel | 12:27 |
| genehacker | steel has tensile strength of 440 MN/m^2 | 12:28 |
| genehacker | still that's pretty strong | 12:28 |
| genehacker | now where's the closest neutron star... | 12:29 |
| fenn | read "dragon's egg" to get a feel for how things work in neutron stars | 12:29 |
| fenn | keep in mind you'll need a mini black hole to keep the neutronium from evaporating | 12:29 |
| genehacker | been wanting to read that | 12:34 |
| genehacker | heh | 12:34 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Robert%20L.%20Forward%20-%20Dragon's Egg.pdf | 12:36 |
| fenn | oops forgot one | 12:37 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Robert%20L.%20Forward%20-%20Dragon's%20Egg.pdf | 12:37 |
| genehacker | bolonkin has some calculations in there about making a version of a human out of AB matter | 12:37 |
| genehacker | IE replace every atom in your body with AB matter counterparts | 12:38 |
| genehacker | and 200 of you could fit in a microbe | 12:38 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Robert%20L.%20Forward%20-%20Starquake.pdf | 12:38 |
| fenn | not quite that small | 12:38 |
| fenn | based on the density of real neutronium it'd be more like 0.1mm | 12:39 |
| fenn | er, 1mm, sorry | 12:39 |
| genehacker | how do you get that? | 12:41 |
| genehacker | is that hot neutronium? | 12:42 |
| fenn | well lets calculate it | 12:42 |
| fenn | google tells me " The density of neutronium is 4 * 10 ^ 17 kg/m^3" | 12:42 |
| genehacker | bolonkin say 3 instead of 4 | 12:44 |
| genehacker | oh wait he says it varies | 12:44 |
| fenn | units '(4 * 10 ^ 17 kg/m^3)' '70kg/(0.006mm)^3' = about 1 | 12:45 |
| fenn | so i was off by a couple orders of magnitude | 12:45 |
| genehacker | so that's about right | 12:45 |
| genehacker | are you calculating a human by weight? | 12:45 |
| fenn | equivalent mass | 12:46 |
| genehacker | bolonkin does it by molecules | 12:46 |
| fenn | what is a 'molecule' of neutronium | 12:46 |
| genehacker | like a proton or neutron | 12:47 |
| fenn | a proton is a molecule? | 12:47 |
| genehacker | no | 12:47 |
| genehacker | it isn't | 12:47 |
| genehacker | he proposes the tiny human as a thought experiment | 12:47 |
| fenn | i think i've heard enough already | 12:47 |
| genehacker | I think you have | 12:48 |
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| kanzure | fenn: I am very confused. | 13:31 |
| kanzure | def my_method(first=1, second=2, third=3): #just print out each value and be done with it | 13:31 |
| kanzure | my_method({'first': 39401}) | 13:31 |
| kanzure | (such that my_method does "first = ", first, "\nsecond = ", second, etc.) | 13:32 |
| kanzure | and that dict is given to the first named parameter ("first"), in other words, first becomes a dict | 13:32 |
| kanzure | so my_method prints out "first = {'first': 39401}" | 13:32 |
| kanzure | so when from_yaml calls "cls(data)", where "data" is a dict and "cls" is a bad way of saying "self", | 13:32 |
| kanzure | I don't understand how the yaml peeps expect that to work | 13:33 |
| kanzure | they are just sending a dict | 13:33 |
| kanzure | guess I shouldn't use to_yaml and from_yaml | 13:37 |
| fenn | you probably shouldnt use to_yaml and from_yaml | 13:40 |
| fenn | cls is not "self" | 13:42 |
| kanzure | oh? | 13:42 |
| fenn | since to/from_yaml is @classmethod, it's the name of the class that's calling it | 13:43 |
| fenn | er, the name of the class of the instance | 13:43 |
| fenn | whereas self is the instance itself | 13:43 |
| kanzure | so, in my example yaml file I have a list of interfaces that a part has | 13:43 |
| kanzure | each interface should have a generic name | 13:44 |
| kanzure | so I thought that calling one of them 'hole' would be ok. (so the line is "hole: !interface") | 13:44 |
| kanzure | the yamlauthor still has to add a 'name' attribute though right? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | or is there a way around this | 13:44 |
| fenn | because you can't access the key "hole" right? | 13:45 |
| kanzure | right | 13:45 |
| fenn | i would really like to figure out how to do that | 13:45 |
| kanzure | or because we don't know that the key is necessary "hole" | 13:45 |
| kanzure | *necessarily | 13:45 |
| kanzure | I guess you can look for keys that are of the correct type | 13:45 |
| fenn | the key could be anything | 13:45 |
| kanzure | no, I mean, er.. | 13:45 |
| fenn | the key isnt the type, it's the type of the value it points to | 13:45 |
| kanzure | when you have a dict that yaml spits at you from yaml.load(foo), | 13:46 |
| kanzure | mydict = yaml.load(foo) | 13:46 |
| kanzure | for each in mydict.keys(): | 13:46 |
| kanzure | if type(each) == skdb.pymates.Interface: ... | 13:46 |
| kanzure | er. wait. | 13:46 |
| kanzure | yeah ok I think I see what you mean | 13:47 |
| fenn | yaml doesnt give you a dict if you use a custom tag ( unless your object inherits from dict, and even then i think it just sets everything as attributes) | 13:48 |
| kanzure | bbl | 13:48 |
| fenn | i was reading about the 'property' keyword; apparently you can have property access via dict syntax? | 13:49 |
| fenn | http://adam.gomaa.us/blog/2008/aug/11/the-python-property-builtin/ | 13:50 |
| fenn | Or we could make a .url property with dictionary access: book.urls['absolute'] | 13:50 |
| fenn | Or heck, even with attribute access book.urls.absolute | 13:50 |
| fenn | or maybe i'm totally missing the point | 13:50 |
| fenn | anyway i want to use the property function for stuff like Screw.breaking_strength | 13:51 |
| fenn | sometimes you have an actual measured value, and other times you have to estimate/calculate based on possibly crappy data (so its best to have both options instead of always forcing you to calculate) | 13:52 |
| fenn | what's the python syntax for the parent of an attribute? like for foo.bar, bar.__something__ == 'foo' | 13:53 |
| fenn | or just foo, not 'foo' | 13:53 |
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| fenn | damn. BRepPrimAPI_MakeSweep isnt implemented yet | 14:43 |
| kanzure | fenn: dash in #python claims that your foo.bar.__something__==foo is impossible in python | 14:45 |
| fenn | that's lame | 14:45 |
| kanzure | why not just get a list of attributes and look for those that are of type 'foo' | 14:45 |
| kanzure | oh, you're asking for a '__parent__' or something | 14:46 |
| fenn | because i dont have foo to begin with, only bar | 14:46 |
| fenn | yeah | 14:46 |
| kanzure | every bar necessarily creates a new foo? | 14:46 |
| fenn | no. what? | 14:47 |
| kanzure | just got off the phone with someone who wanted to touch bases with me before he presents at DEFCON in a few weeks. huh. | 14:47 |
| fenn | now i forget what i was doing. thanks~~ | 14:47 |
| kanzure | hah | 14:47 |
| kanzure | for each foo, for each bar in foo, set bar.__parent__ to its foo. | 14:49 |
| fenn | i told you i dont have foo to begin with | 14:49 |
| drazak | fenn: if it's not too much trouble, could you email that to me? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | the zip file? | 14:51 |
| kanzure | wtf | 14:51 |
| fenn | can i get a monitor with lots more than 60fps? | 14:51 |
| fenn | and if so, will any graphics card support it? | 14:51 |
| fenn | graphics cards claim to render at 300fps but if your monitor is only running at 60 then what's the point | 14:52 |
| fenn | drazak: i object on general principle | 14:53 |
| kanzure | I still don't see why you can't loop through the key,value pairs in the dict | 14:56 |
| fenn | there is no dict | 14:56 |
| kanzure | that's how yaml reads it | 14:56 |
| fenn | there's a class with attributes | 14:56 |
| fenn | not if you have a custom tag | 14:56 |
| kanzure | fooey | 14:56 |
| kanzure | wait, why is that? | 14:58 |
| fenn | because tags describe the data type | 14:58 |
| kanzure | could you join #yaml? | 14:59 |
| fenn | and the way i'm doing it, the tags come from yaml.YAMLObject | 14:59 |
| kanzure | the hacky way to do it would be to have something like "hole: !interface\n name: &*" where &* is a special identifier referring to the parent name. but this would be auto-inserted and not written by the user. kind of stupid though. | 15:06 |
| kanzure | "too many values to unpack" | 15:19 |
| kanzure | at the for loop | 15:19 |
| fenn | you might as well just s/((.*): !interface)/\1\n name: \2/ | 15:19 |
| fenn | please dont actually use sed, that's a terrible hack | 15:20 |
| kanzure | aren't we all. | 15:21 |
| fenn | speak for yourself | 15:22 |
| fenn | i wonder if i can convert a solid to a shell and _then_ sweep it | 15:23 |
| kanzure | are shells implemented? | 15:23 |
| fenn | yes, basically shell == surface | 15:23 |
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| fenn | if you sweep a wire you get a shell | 15:24 |
| fenn | somehow this is different from sweeping an edge to get a face.. dont ask me | 15:24 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/prism_not_sweep.png shows why i need MakeSweep | 15:25 |
| fenn | sort of confusing since there's two overlapping objects | 15:26 |
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| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure master * r4c502fd / (pymates/models/blockhole.yaml pymates/pymates.py): pleasant way to add interfaces - http://bit.ly/NaUQJ | 15:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: why the fuck is hall-heroult.process in / ? | 15:39 |
| fenn | because it didnt belong in inventory and i was making silly little changes to test the cia script | 15:39 |
| kanzure | what about change.txt ? | 15:39 |
| kanzure | may I delete change.txt ? | 15:39 |
| fenn | same | 15:39 |
| fenn | yes | 15:39 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r4c502fd12b03 /pymates/ (models/blockhole.yaml pymates.py): pleasant way to add interfaces | 15:40 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r4fa0eacad95e / (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://bryan@adl.serveftp.org/var/www/skdb | 15:40 |
| fenn | now i cant figure out how i made a shell :\ | 15:40 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rd7b1e5873ab8 /change.txt: clean up yer messes, fenn. | 15:40 |
| kanzure | yay CIA is smart enough to not send duplicates | 15:40 |
| fenn | eh? | 15:41 |
| kanzure | I committed to adl and github | 15:41 |
| kanzure | both have the CIA hooks | 15:41 |
| kanzure | CIA only mentioned the commit once | 15:41 |
| fenn | adl has post-receive only | 15:41 |
| kanzure | so? | 15:41 |
| kanzure | oh | 15:41 |
| kanzure | yeah, so? | 15:41 |
| fenn | and it did say the same commit twice | 15:41 |
| kanzure | no it didn't | 15:41 |
| kanzure | it just said: r4c502fd12b03, then r4fa0eacad95e, then rd7b1e5873ab8 | 15:42 |
| fenn | r4c502fd showed up twice, maybe that's not what you meant? | 15:42 |
| kanzure | oh crud it did | 15:42 |
| kanzure | fuck.. | 15:42 |
| kanzure | what's the point of that? | 15:43 |
| fenn | i'm not sure what the point of having two "main" repositories is | 15:43 |
| kanzure | github shows pretty sources | 15:44 |
| kanzure | but now since we have the hook, I'll go disable the hook | 15:44 |
| kanzure | on github i mena | 15:44 |
| kanzure | *mean | 15:44 |
| fenn | who the fuck brings crying babies to the engineering building | 15:45 |
| kanzure | maybe the little kid wanted to see the time machines | 15:45 |
| fenn | move along, nothing to see here | 15:45 |
| kanzure | http://www.singularitysummit.com/ | 15:46 |
| kanzure | nice to see Ed Boyden there. wonder what he's been up to lately. | 15:47 |
| fenn | huh it worked this time | 15:51 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/prism_not_sweep2.png | 15:53 |
| kanzure | I like it when things work. | 15:54 |
| fenn | i like it when they work the first time | 15:55 |
| fenn | and also the second time | 15:55 |
| fenn | one or the other is not so good | 15:55 |
| kanzure | but the third. who cares about the third. she's a bitch. | 15:55 |
| fenn | poor third | 15:55 |
| * fenn is reminded of Armitage | 15:55 | |
| fenn | or battlestar galactica.. same thing i guess | 15:56 |
| fenn | any word from jata? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | rescheduled to next week. but she hasn't bought the tickets yet either. | 15:58 |
| kanzure | maybe I'll call Alex soon | 15:58 |
| kanzure | I haven't actually explained to them the lease expiration date etc | 15:59 |
| kanzure | why wouldn't she show up in here before flying us out there. she's kind of lazy. | 15:59 |
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| fenn | weirdness is a given | 16:00 |
| kanzure | hm. so. should I do the matrix math stuff now, or the pythonOCC visualization stuff? | 16:02 |
| kanzure | can't determine the variational priorities here. | 16:04 |
| fenn | i'm afraid i dont see the difference | 16:05 |
| fenn | matrix math stuff = translations and rotations in OCC, no? | 16:05 |
| kanzure | with visualization I could just say "look! it loads a CAD model!" | 16:05 |
| kanzure | oh. hrm. | 16:05 |
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| kanzure | yeah I guess so | 16:05 |
| kanzure | I guess it's also easier to say "hey look! an image thingy!" | 16:05 |
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| kanzure | hello splicer | 16:06 |
| splicer | hi kanzure | 16:08 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r964eec078000 /pymates/ (models/blockhole.yaml pymates.py): added coordinates support | 16:16 |
| genehacker | are you messing around with cad stuff? | 16:29 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:29 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/prism_not_sweep2.png | 16:29 |
| genehacker | are you messing around with cad stuff? | 16:29 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/prism_not_sweep2.png | 16:29 |
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| kanzure | pft. | 16:29 |
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| genehacker | are you messing around with cad stuff? | 16:30 |
| genehacker | if you can extrude stuff from a 2d sketch I'll write you a script for making really really weird gears | 16:31 |
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| kanzure | genehacker: yes | 16:34 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/prism_not_sweep2.png | 16:34 |
| kanzure | you can extrude stuff from a sketch, yes. | 16:34 |
| kanzure | genehacker: you can install pythonOCC on Windows if you want | 16:34 |
| kanzure | genehacker: here's how: http://www.pythonocc.org/wiki/index.php/InstallWindows | 16:35 |
| Smari | material properties? Does anybody have a definitive non-redundant list? | 16:35 |
| kanzure | ha, ha. no. :( | 16:35 |
| kanzure | Smari: I have a rip of matweb if that's what you're looking for | 16:35 |
| Smari | kanzure, matweb? | 16:35 |
| kanzure | Smari: http://matweb.com/ | 16:36 |
| kanzure | has about 80,000 materials listed | 16:36 |
| kanzure | it's 479 MB in size: http://heybryan.org/books/Manufacturing/matweb.zip | 16:37 |
| genehacker | so I have a matlab program that makes gears | 16:37 |
| genehacker | gears like you've never seen before | 16:37 |
| genehacker | btw does matweb have mooney constants for RTV silicone? | 16:38 |
| kanzure | it only had the most generic of information | 16:38 |
| kanzure | so I'd doubt it | 16:39 |
| genehacker | dang | 16:39 |
| kanzure | you should check | 16:39 |
| genehacker | just did | 16:39 |
| Smari | kanzure, nice. | 16:39 |
| Smari | kanzure, is that just the database? | 16:39 |
| kanzure | no. that's all of their HTML bullshit. sorry. | 16:39 |
| genehacker | trying to get this hyperelastic modeling thing to work | 16:39 |
| Smari | kanzure, parse.. | 16:39 |
| Smari | parse... | 16:39 |
| kanzure | bah | 16:39 |
| kanzure | I haven't got around to it yet | 16:40 |
| kanzure | I'm not convinced of the general utility | 16:40 |
| genehacker | it's been punching away at my mesh for 8 minutes | 16:40 |
| genehacker | I wonder if it crashed | 16:40 |
| kanzure | Smari: but if you bug me enough I'll get around to it | 16:40 |
| genehacker | or I did something wrong | 16:40 |
| kanzure | do you really think you'd have a use for it? | 16:40 |
| genehacker | oops | 16:41 |
| Smari | kanzure, no. But it would be good to have that kind of dataset parsed nicely anyway. | 16:42 |
| kanzure | right | 16:42 |
| Smari | It could be culled quite a bit. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | did you just wake up? | 16:44 |
| Smari | no | 16:44 |
| Smari | just got off a boat. | 16:45 |
| Smari | Mmm | 16:52 |
| Smari | Properties properties properties | 16:52 |
| Smari | So what I'm doing is generating the model/DTD stuff for a "material".. | 16:53 |
| Smari | what is CTE? | 16:54 |
| genehacker | FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF | 16:56 |
| genehacker | this thing takes a long time to run | 16:56 |
| Smari | Ah | 16:56 |
| Smari | That. | 16:56 |
| genehacker | just trying to simulate a part | 16:56 |
| genehacker | it's gonna take awhile | 16:57 |
| genehacker | it might even take days | 16:58 |
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| * kanzure compiles pythonOCC after making a correction in environment.py | 17:19 | |
| * Smari is trying to write code while experiencing a live performance of "Dánarfregnir og Jarðarfarir" on vibraphone. | 17:21 | |
| kanzure | vibraphone? | 17:21 |
| Smari | it's an instrument. | 17:22 |
| Smari | It's similar to a xylophone I guess. | 17:22 |
| kanzure | if I was going to go outside to eat tonight, where would I eat | 17:22 |
| Smari | The park! | 17:22 |
| Smari | The moon! | 17:23 |
| Smari | The freeway! | 17:23 |
| Smari | The airport! | 17:23 |
| Smari | Subway? | 17:23 |
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| kanzure | TopoOpeBRepDS_tools.hxx: No such file or directory | 17:39 |
| kanzure | blargh | 17:39 |
| Smari | You said you had a GNU Units wrapper? | 17:40 |
| kanzure | right | 17:40 |
| kanzure | it's in skdb.py in the skdb git repo | 17:40 |
| kanzure | try class Units and class Measurement etc. | 17:40 |
| kanzure | aha the source of fleas was the garbage disposal | 17:42 |
| Smari | I've got a fairly substantial list of properties.. | 17:43 |
| kanzure | hm? | 17:43 |
| kanzure | start from the beginning please | 17:43 |
| Smari | Wondering whether I should add them all individually to the DTD or create a "subclass" for it.. | 17:43 |
| kanzure | a list of potential properties for a material in a material database? | 17:43 |
| Smari | mechanical properties. | 17:43 |
| Smari | yes | 17:43 |
| kanzure | well this is why yaml is so fun | 17:43 |
| Smari | mechanical, optical,.. | 17:44 |
| kanzure | you don't have to make a DTD with yaml. | 17:44 |
| kanzure | it just loads in the attributes that you specify | 17:44 |
| Smari | No I WANT to make a DTD. | 17:44 |
| kanzure | O.o | 17:44 |
| Smari | Because having a DTD means I have an explicitly defined protocol that can be sanity checked.. | 17:44 |
| Smari | and I can autogenerate databases and stuff from... | 17:44 |
| kanzure | yeah I hear that last one I guess | 17:45 |
| kanzure | so, hey, | 17:45 |
| kanzure | I was looking for a tool to automatically generate DTDs given an XML document | 17:45 |
| Smari | YAML means that I end up with a gazillion edgecases unless it just happens to have been the same autistic typist who wrote all the files. | 17:45 |
| kanzure | where you get to assume that the XML document uses everything | 17:45 |
| kanzure | but I've never seen anything that does this | 17:45 |
| kanzure | it seems like an obvious thingy to me | 17:46 |
| kanzure | but I can't find it. you know of anything like this? | 17:46 |
| kanzure | autogendtd example.xml > example.dtd | 17:46 |
| Smari | yeah.. should be fairly easy: Traverse the tree and write down every tag and property you encounter. | 17:46 |
| Smari | Never seen anything like that though | 17:46 |
| kanzure | do you have a list of properties already in a human readable format? | 17:47 |
| kanzure | and what are you going to use this dataset in? | 17:47 |
| Smari | I'm converging the map frontend with your SKDB purposes. | 17:49 |
| Smari | so I'm making a few things: | 17:49 |
| Smari | 1) XML DTD's for the core stuff 2) Django Model definitions (which are essentially SQL tables) 3) XMLRPC and JSON interfaces to the Django stuff. | 17:50 |
| kanzure | so your map would be a django model? | 17:50 |
| kanzure | is there a generic Google Maps AJAX voodoo magic plugin for django yet? this seems like something taht should exist anywway | 17:50 |
| kanzure | *anyway | 17:51 |
| kanzure | sorry, *django view (not a model) | 17:51 |
| kanzure | although I'm sure it will have a few models | 17:51 |
| Smari | kanzure, I've not seen many pick-up-and-play Django apps.. | 17:52 |
| Smari | kanzure, but I'm using OpenStreetMap in this. | 17:52 |
| kanzure | but wasn't that the idea | 17:52 |
| Smari | My map is a Django model yes. | 17:52 |
| Smari | well, several models and a few views. | 17:53 |
| Smari | Pull the repo. | 17:56 |
| Smari | i.e. tangiblebit | 17:56 |
| kanzure | blah, I need to start keeping track of addresses | 17:58 |
| kanzure | aha git pull worked | 17:59 |
| kanzure | you deleted the store? | 17:59 |
| Smari | yes | 18:04 |
| Smari | Moved it elsewhere. | 18:04 |
| Smari | Want to keep this clean for this project. | 18:05 |
| kanzure | Anything I should look at in particular? | 18:05 |
| Smari | doc/* sources/fabmap/xmlrpc.py sources/fabmap/models.py | 18:06 |
| Smari | Like where this is going? | 18:23 |
| kanzure | eternal bash history: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/543 | 18:24 |
| drazak | oh that'd drive me nuts | 18:25 |
| Smari | ctrl+r would become dreadfully slow I suspect. | 18:26 |
| kanzure | oh just running `history 2` is nice | 18:26 |
| kanzure | history -w ~/remember/my_history | 18:28 |
| kanzure | yay | 18:28 |
| kanzure | it's like a christmas wish | 18:28 |
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| kanzure | hello Jata | 18:40 |
| Jata | hello bryan | 18:40 |
| Jata | i gave in to peer pressure, it seems | 18:40 |
| kanzure | don't do irc, it will ruin your life | 18:41 |
| kanzure | so maybe you could reask the question | 18:41 |
| Jata | which? | 18:41 |
| Smari | IRC skemir heylan. | 18:41 |
| Smari | oh wait, that joke's not funny in this crowd. | 18:42 |
| Smari | sorry. | 18:42 |
| kanzure | Jata: in particular whether or not fenn and i are worth it | 18:42 |
| Jata | well then | 18:42 |
| Jata | are you and fenn worth it? | 18:42 |
| Smari | worth what exactly? | 18:42 |
| fenn | that's what i was going to say | 18:42 |
| kanzure | what do you want to know though? | 18:43 |
| Jata | if you guys fly out here to chat with alex and myself, what are we going to discuss? what magical breakthroughs are we going to pretend to make, and what is alex going to get out of it? | 18:43 |
| Jata | is the essence of it | 18:44 |
| fenn | i want to know what you're pretending to do in the first place, if we aren't there | 18:44 |
| Jata | a great question | 18:44 |
| kanzure | well actually the real reason would be to see if we can actually work together in person | 18:44 |
| Jata | fair enough | 18:44 |
| kanzure | there's really no other legitimate excuse for it | 18:44 |
| kanzure | well, besides my skepticism of alex being real | 18:44 |
| Jata | yeah, this is my thought as well. but it's not me buying the tickets... hah. i have my suspicious sometimes too... | 18:45 |
| fenn | all you zombies | 18:45 |
| Jata | so, i assume you're familiar with h+, formerly wta | 18:45 |
| Jata | yes? | 18:45 |
| fenn | yes | 18:45 |
| Jata | mkay. so, alex is the new exec dir of h+ | 18:45 |
| fenn | does alex want to do anything beyond fundraising and media bullshit? | 18:46 |
| Jata | he wants h+ to stop doing nothing, and he hired me to fix that | 18:46 |
| Jata | well, that's the thing. i don't know what he wants to do, i'm figuring out what it should do | 18:46 |
| fenn | i see he's interested in wearables (to put it mildly) | 18:46 |
| Jata | hah, yeah | 18:46 |
| Jata | have you spoken to him? | 18:46 |
| fenn | no | 18:46 |
| Jata | well, you will | 18:47 |
| kanzure | so basically the task is to figure out what they should have been doing 20 years ago | 18:47 |
| kanzure | or how to catch up | 18:47 |
| kanzure | and then to do it | 18:47 |
| fenn | but that doesnt help us | 18:47 |
| kanzure | or do it then figure it out (the other way around) | 18:47 |
| Jata | yes, and yes it could help us | 18:47 |
| fenn | we should be figuring out what to do _now_ | 18:47 |
| Jata | that is the idea | 18:47 |
| Smari | I'm tempted to say something along the lines of, "the people you really want to be calling to a meeting, then, are..." and then give you a list of five people who have more or less plotted out what is going to have to happen in order for humanity to survive the next fifty years. But I'm not going to. Unless specifically asked. | 18:47 |
| kanzure | does jata know smari? | 18:48 |
| Jata | well, these people have been shouting at the top of their lungs about it | 18:48 |
| Jata | and no, i don't think so | 18:48 |
| Smari | I don't think so either. | 18:48 |
| fenn | Smari: five people would never agree on anything | 18:48 |
| kanzure | there's one | 18:48 |
| Smari | fenn, depends on which five people. | 18:48 |
| kanzure | Jata: so, | 18:48 |
| Smari | fenn, they needn't agree on everything. Just more than most. | 18:49 |
| * fenn mumbles something about hive mind | 18:49 | |
| Jata | hah | 18:49 |
| Jata | well, here's the summary of what i would like to see happen with h+: | 18:49 |
| kanzure | Jata: so, what is it that you're already doing? | 18:49 |
| kanzure | I've told you about skdb and all of these exciting things happening from my end | 18:49 |
| kanzure | or not happening but that need to happen more | 18:49 |
| Jata | hah | 18:49 |
| Jata | fair enough | 18:49 |
| Smari | they're certainly happening at my end ;) | 18:49 |
| fenn | skdb is coming along | 18:49 |
| Smari | sorry. | 18:49 |
| kanzure | smari's ass is being burned and charred as we speak | 18:50 |
| Smari | I'll go stand in the corner. | 18:50 |
| Jata | glad to hear it | 18:50 |
| * fenn waits patiently for the summary | 18:50 | |
| Jata | so: at the moment, we're building a diybio lab, writing lab manuals, talking to people who want to help us build the open source diagnostic chips, etc. pretty straightforward, small scale | 18:51 |
| Jata | i would like h+ to actually be useful to crazy people like you, and other small communities of... creative science | 18:52 |
| kanzure | it sounds like alex wanted to be the center of his "communities of creative science" | 18:52 |
| kanzure | and building a one-off diybio lab isn't going to cut it (sorry) | 18:52 |
| Jata | yeah, it does, but that's sort of beside the point | 18:52 |
| kanzure | (of course, like any good salesman, I have the solution no less) | 18:52 |
| Jata | obvi, bryan | 18:52 |
| kanzure | :p | 18:53 |
| Jata | haha, okay. let's hear it | 18:53 |
| kanzure | er, I thought I already told you about skdb | 18:53 |
| Jata | you did | 18:53 |
| kanzure | apparently not well enough | 18:53 |
| kanzure | there's no reason that diybio labs can't be built DIY-style | 18:53 |
| kanzure | the idea of skdb is to package that information and the instructions | 18:54 |
| Jata | how long will it take you to actually make skdb happen? | 18:54 |
| kanzure | such as instructions for both procedures and building tools | 18:54 |
| kanzure | well it's coming along | 18:54 |
| Jata | how long will it be before i can use it? | 18:54 |
| kanzure | what does that mean? | 18:54 |
| Jata | my point is this: | 18:54 |
| kanzure | there are some development milestones we are approaching, if that's what you're asking | 18:54 |
| kanzure | for instance, by monday I plan to have the part mating algorithms done | 18:54 |
| fenn | it turns out that everything takes longer than you think | 18:54 |
| Jata | exactly | 18:55 |
| Smari | Jata, documentation and starter packages. | 18:55 |
| fenn | so i expect part mating algorihms done in (3 * 2 to the next unit) 6 weeks | 18:55 |
| kanzure | Jata: skdb is kind of the central project to all the clutter.. but I still think pursuing other projects is appropriate. | 18:55 |
| fenn | it's not actually central | 18:55 |
| fenn | it's the glue that holds everything together | 18:56 |
| Jata | for me, it's not about whatever silly diybio projects i do right now. there are a lot of really cool projects being worked on. they always take longer than you think. they are expensive. they are time consuming. what would help you? | 18:56 |
| Smari | It permeates through the æther of Things to Be Done. | 18:56 |
| kanzure | so, instructables and all of these other websites just take pictures of hardware | 18:56 |
| fenn | honestly i think diybio is a waste of time | 18:56 |
| kanzure | and this isn't sufficient for advancing diy and transhumanism | 18:56 |
| kanzure | a photograph isn't sufficient. we need to be more serious about this :p | 18:56 |
| fenn | until people have a basic manufacturing and chemical infrastructure, how do you do anything? | 18:56 |
| Jata | agreed. the point of diybio, imho, is to make people pay attention | 18:57 |
| Jata | but that's beside the point | 18:57 |
| Jata | what do you need to make skdb happen? | 18:57 |
| kanzure | it's already happening, but slowly because we waste our time at the lab | 18:57 |
| fenn | time and smart people | 18:57 |
| fenn | and minions, lots of them | 18:57 |
| kanzure | oh yes definitely minions | 18:57 |
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| Jata | if you could suddenly afford these minions and smart people, would you be able to get results? | 18:58 |
| fenn | but i expect that to happen on its own eventually | 18:58 |
| Smari | I'm fed up of standing in the corner. I'm piping in. Look: Transhumanism is facing a situation where there will be no transhumanism if the current running model of humans doesn't solve a bunch of very very big problems right now and no later than now. These questions all more or less boil down to infrastructure. | 18:58 |
| fenn | Jata: that's sort of hard to answer.. how would i know? | 18:58 |
| kanzure | I can't point to a website and say, "look! it's spitting out instructions right now!" | 18:59 |
| fenn | Jata: i'm supposed to answer yes, and you're supposed to believe me, because you're a primate and if i believe in myself then it must be right, right? | 18:59 |
| Jata | thank you, smari. you're allowed to pipe in, and yes, i agree. it's very frustrating. what would you see done? | 18:59 |
| QuantumG | Smari: oh do tell, what problems would they be? | 18:59 |
| Jata | fenn, you aren't supposed to answer | 18:59 |
| Smari | Fab Labs and DIYBio Labs and all of that stuff are manufacturing infrastructure, and unless we have those and all of that jazz in every single populated area on earth, we're going to need a distribution system for manufactured goods. | 18:59 |
| fenn | huh. | 18:59 |
| Jata | yet.. | 18:59 |
| kanzure | yes, I've been kind of yelling at jata about infrastructure issues | 18:59 |
| kanzure | deployable downloadable infrastructure is kind of important glue. | 19:00 |
| fenn | we already have a distribution system for manufactured goods | 19:00 |
| kanzure | it kind of sucks | 19:00 |
| fenn | (well in most populated areas) | 19:00 |
| Jata | fenn, you and bryan are going to come to LA (next weekend?) and hit alex over the head with the importance of infrastructure. then we are going to figure out what we can do to help you. this is one of the major points of the meeting. | 19:00 |
| Jata | the other point is: as smari pointed out, transhumanism is in a pretty bad state | 19:01 |
| kanzure | heh | 19:01 |
| kanzure | yes, it is | 19:01 |
| Jata | this is annoying to me. we need to fix it. | 19:01 |
| Jata | because the old school transhumanists aren't really helping much | 19:01 |
| kanzure | so while I would like to hit alex over the head about infrastructure, | 19:01 |
| kanzure | I think that alex has the right idea | 19:01 |
| QuantumG | we all'd like to hear the plan | 19:01 |
| kanzure | the other day he said something about "ok jata, what do you need to make this happen" | 19:01 |
| fenn | part of the problem is it's a pseudo religious -ism instead of a political -ism | 19:01 |
| fenn | religions don't have agendas | 19:01 |
| Jata | yeah, this is a huge part of the problem | 19:01 |
| Jata | this needs to all go away | 19:02 |
| kanzure | yay. that makes me happy. I've been bashing my head against these guys for years now. something has changed. :) | 19:02 |
| Jata | i'm currently rewriting all the h+ docs, redoing the website, revamping the thing | 19:02 |
| Jata | hahah | 19:02 |
| kanzure | yeah have you poked the new FAQ thing? | 19:02 |
| Jata | any input any of you have is welcome | 19:02 |
| Jata | which one? | 19:02 |
| kanzure | the huge one | 19:02 |
| Jata | there are like 4 | 19:02 |
| Jata | oh, god, it's a disaster. i've been tweaking it | 19:02 |
| kanzure | the monster that shouldn't be touched with a four foot pole | 19:02 |
| Smari | QuantumG, In short 2 billion people living extremely unsustainably, to the degree of possibly irrevertably fucking up the planet and, if not, causing a permanent materials disequilibrium. Another 4 billion, soon to be 5 billion, living more or less sustainably but are largely miserable and want to become part of a future 6 billion person suburbia, where every human being has an SUV and goes to the Canary Islands for Christmas. | 19:03 |
| fenn | "the super FAQ" typical kanzure textsplosion | 19:03 |
| kanzure | hey now.. | 19:03 |
| Jata | smari: energy crisis won't be an issue | 19:03 |
| Jata | but that's irrelevant | 19:03 |
| Smari | Jata, I keep hearing people say that but I haven't seen anybody solve that on the large scale. | 19:03 |
| QuantumG | Smari: and how does this lead to extinction? | 19:04 |
| fenn | Jata: why did you agree (or think you agreed) with smari earlier? | 19:04 |
| Smari | Jata, although I do agree. | 19:04 |
| kanzure | Jata: so, how would alex justify h+ funding, say, an h+ diybio fablab fabratory skdb thingy | 19:04 |
| Jata | about h+? | 19:04 |
| kanzure | as in, "ok wta, we're going to do this now because I think it's cool" | 19:04 |
| kanzure | yeah, I'm just wondering | 19:04 |
| fenn | about planet earth being doomed | 19:04 |
| kanzure | you can't just snap your fingers and get everyone convinced | 19:04 |
| Jata | yeah, that's pretty much it | 19:04 |
| kanzure | er, me? | 19:04 |
| Jata | i don't think planet earth is going to be doomed. i think our transhumanist hopes coul be doomed | 19:04 |
| Jata | yes you, bryan | 19:04 |
| Smari | QuantumG, not necessarily extinction, but do you not agree that for highly philosophical concepts such as transhumanism to exist, people need to have a moderate degree of comfort - you know, not be want of food, shelter, etc, etc.? | 19:05 |
| fenn | why do we need to convince everyone? | 19:05 |
| kanzure | Jata: why should h+ fund *our* particular transhumanist hopes? | 19:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: because I don't know why it should be us rather than someone else | 19:05 |
| kanzure | I guess maybe there is nobody else | 19:05 |
| kanzure | maybe that's why.. | 19:05 |
| fenn | oh. minions, right. | 19:05 |
| Jata | yes | 19:06 |
| kanzure | it's not like h+ members get "free body upgrades" as part of their membership | 19:06 |
| QuantumG | if you want to predict a war or a famine or a dark ages, sure, I could buy that.. with a nice grain of salt.. but when you start talking about there being "no more humans" I gotta chuckle | 19:06 |
| Jata | ...yet | 19:06 |
| Jata | this is exactly the problem with h+ | 19:06 |
| QuantumG | now, if you were talking about killer asteroids... | 19:06 |
| Smari | Here's my point: I want to live for another 1000 years, minimum, but as things are going right now I'm not sure I'm going to survive the next 20 years. | 19:06 |
| Jata | arguing over whether we're all going to die... not useful | 19:06 |
| kanzure | Jata: so getting the tools to the transhumanists is important, like educating them and so on- and servicing the tools etc.- | 19:06 |
| kanzure | maybe that's sufficiently legit | 19:07 |
| Jata | yes. most important is making the technology actually happen | 19:07 |
| Jata | skdb, if successful, would be damned awesome | 19:07 |
| Smari | QuantumG, there will be humans. I'm not worried about that. What I'm worried about is that the humans won't be in any position to worry about genetic modifications or the theoretical underpinnings of the universe because we'll be too busy trying to survive. | 19:07 |
| kanzure | I talked with someone on the phone about DEFCON today and mentioned to him that I think of transhumanism in terms of .. being a systems administrator of the brain, sort of. | 19:07 |
| Jata | i would like to live in a world where skdb exists; therefore, i will do what i can to ensure that you are capable of making it happen, however you choose to make it. it's that simple | 19:07 |
| Jata | oh, is anyone going to defcon? we could meet | 19:08 |
| Smari | I wish | 19:08 |
| kanzure | Jata: that sounds great, but I'm afraid I may have spoken myself into a hole- for there is a great deal more that can be done simultaneously while the glue is drying | 19:08 |
| Smari | I wish I could be at HAR too. | 19:08 |
| Smari | I'll be at FAB5 though | 19:08 |
| QuantumG | Smari: so in under 5 minutes you've changed your argument.. no wonder you're not gunna live forever | 19:08 |
| Jata | bryan, what? | 19:08 |
| kanzure | Jata: fenn made an analogy of skdb as infrastructure glue | 19:09 |
| Jata | i got that part | 19:09 |
| Smari | QuantumG, no, my argument hasn't changed at all. You've just not been following my point. | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | no.. you've just failed to make one | 19:09 |
| kanzure | Jata: so while the glue is drying there are other interesting things that would be kickass to work on | 19:09 |
| Smari | *sigh* | 19:09 |
| Jata | yes. | 19:09 |
| kanzure | Jata: for instance, alex indicated interest in the rapamycin experiments | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | that happens if you don't think before you talk | 19:09 |
| kanzure | although I think there might be some other interesting targets | 19:09 |
| Jata | yes! adorable mice. | 19:10 |
| fenn | how about wearable computers that dont suck | 19:10 |
| Jata | there are zillions of topics | 19:10 |
| Jata | fenn, i like you | 19:10 |
| kanzure | like how todd might be funding the myostatin inhibitor project too | 19:10 |
| Jata | all of these things should be worked on | 19:10 |
| kanzure | etc. "millions" | 19:10 |
| kanzure | right | 19:10 |
| kanzure | so we just need to make it happen | 19:10 |
| Jata | exactly | 19:10 |
| QuantumG | how about direct neural interface research that don't suck | 19:10 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: have you seen innerspacefoundation.org ? | 19:10 |
| Jata | how about a lot of things that dont suck? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | heh | 19:10 |
| fenn | hum. the difference is i think i actually know how to make a decent wearable computer in a reasonable timeframe | 19:11 |
| Jata | how about -- and i dont know who is in here, so i don't know who i'm inviting -- but why don't interested people with interesting projects get themselves on some hypothetical list | 19:11 |
| fenn | but 'neural interface' could mean 50 things | 19:11 |
| kanzure | yet another list? | 19:11 |
| Jata | not a mailing list | 19:12 |
| Jata | necesarily | 19:12 |
| fenn | a hit list | 19:12 |
| Jata | precisely. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | let's just get it done.. submit a patch. | 19:12 |
| Jata | okay, here's the deal: h+ might be able to fund your independent research. if you want in, you need to make that known | 19:12 |
| kanzure | make that known how? | 19:13 |
| Jata | however possible. my email is parijata@gmail.com | 19:13 |
| QuantumG | well, making just a battery powered computer with vga out, usb in, and not much else is a challenge.. as I haven't found anywhere you can buy one. Last wearable I built I used an eeepc | 19:13 |
| fenn | are you asking for a grant proposal? | 19:13 |
| Jata | unofficially, yes | 19:13 |
| kanzure | I don't know what's happening | 19:13 |
| Jata | okay guys | 19:13 |
| Jata | this is why i was reluctant to jump into this channel | 19:14 |
| Jata | i'm telling you what's in progress | 19:14 |
| Jata | i need your input, because it's not happening yet | 19:14 |
| Jata | i have a lot of resources; i need to direct them | 19:14 |
| fenn | QuantumG: i'm using beagleboard | 19:14 |
| QuantumG | there are some low power computers you can get with no embedded keyboard/screen/etc.. they're for home media center use.. and go on about how low power they are.. and yet there's no battery systems for them. | 19:14 |
| Jata | the best place to direct them, it seems, is to these sort of projects. especially the ones that could be serious business. | 19:14 |
| fenn | i have pages and pages of projects | 19:15 |
| kanzure | Jata: so the reason why I was asking a lot last week about the itinerary was because you've caught me at a good time | 19:15 |
| Jata | great. bring them. | 19:15 |
| Jata | oh? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | Jata: because if fenn and I were to come up north to meet with you and alex, | 19:15 |
| kanzure | and if something was to click, like if we were to do what we're doing in austin (the fabratory) but up there, | 19:15 |
| kanzure | this would be a good time | 19:15 |
| kanzure | because of leasing contracts | 19:15 |
| kanzure | involving the apartment etc. | 19:16 |
| fenn | (everything's north from texas) | 19:16 |
| Jata | hah, okay | 19:16 |
| kanzure | so it's just good timing | 19:16 |
| Jata | gotcha | 19:16 |
| Jata | is this upcoming weekend still good timing? | 19:16 |
| kanzure | I think that if we had a place to work and implement our infrastructure ideas things could go better | 19:16 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:16 |
| Jata | would you like a place to work? | 19:16 |
| fenn | four letter word | 19:16 |
| Jata | so is play... | 19:16 |
| fenn | i guess play is also a four letter word | 19:16 |
| kanzure | fenn has this strange dream of living and playing and building in a giant warehouse of sort | 19:17 |
| fenn | gah | 19:17 |
| Jata | well, aren't you in luck | 19:17 |
| kanzure | stop reading each others' minds, damn it | 19:17 |
| kanzure | that's off-topic and not allowed | 19:17 |
| Jata | i have a giant warehouse that i was hoping you guys would be interested in using | 19:17 |
| kanzure | we need a place to stash machines, tools, materials | 19:17 |
| kanzure | so that we could say one morning "I need to make xyz" | 19:17 |
| kanzure | and then go make it | 19:17 |
| kanzure | without fussing about where the hell to get shit | 19:17 |
| Jata | i didnt mention it because i was trying to figure out some clever way to talk you away from texas | 19:17 |
| fenn | that sort of thing takes a while to build up enough junk | 19:17 |
| Jata | but yes. if you want a warehouse in LA, it's yours | 19:17 |
| kanzure | an inventory system would also be nice | 19:18 |
| kanzure | Jata: you don't need to be clever to bring me to the coasts | 19:18 |
| Jata | anyway | 19:18 |
| Jata | hahaha | 19:18 |
| kanzure | austin is a bad idea for many reasons | 19:18 |
| kanzure | why am I here | 19:18 |
| kanzure | who are you people | 19:18 |
| QuantumG | fenn: thing the beagleboard could produce output for this: http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_wrap920av.html it's not vga | 19:18 |
| kanzure | fenn just came down here because I told him about the fabratory project | 19:18 |
| QuantumG | I have the VR920 which is vga. | 19:19 |
| fenn | QuantumG: MyVu crystal is VGA and costs about $200; you get two displays that can be used separately | 19:19 |
| kanzure | Jata: did you ever see the inventory lists in the skdb repo? they were sort of like wish lists | 19:19 |
| Jata | okay, well, fenn, bryan: the purpose of your trip is to tell alex about the importance of infrastructure, about skdb, and to decide what you actually want/need for your work. we will also discuss h+ and where we'd like to see that go. | 19:19 |
| kanzure | of stuff that would be useful to have or to eventually build | 19:19 |
| Jata | yeah, i figured | 19:19 |
| kanzure | Jata: okay, great. if you happen to have h+ers wanting to do some serious projects or something, | 19:19 |
| fenn | fabratory fumbled because people were trying to make money off it instead of getting it done | 19:19 |
| kanzure | fenn and I have piles of notes and documents | 19:19 |
| QuantumG | fenn: the wrap 920 is/will be semitransparent | 19:20 |
| Jata | this is great news | 19:20 |
| kanzure | Jata: so it sounds like we have next weekend planned out then? | 19:20 |
| Jata | h+ is a non-profit, we couldn't make money off of you if we wanted to | 19:20 |
| Jata | yessir | 19:20 |
| Jata | let me call alex and make sure it works | 19:20 |
| kanzure | there's actually a way to make money off of skdb, and alex mentioned that he might want to hear it | 19:20 |
| kanzure | but it's more of a consulting gig version of cygnus | 19:20 |
| kanzure | but that doesn't matter at the moment. | 19:21 |
| fenn | what about offering 'buy it now' button service | 19:21 |
| kanzure | yeah that too | 19:21 |
| kanzure | (joseph jackson wants to do "diybio premium" for a cost or something, but he never got around to convincing me) | 19:21 |
| fenn | that doesnt make sense anyway | 19:21 |
| QuantumG | commercial makes it possible to jump in at different parts in the production tree.. not to mention the motivation factor. | 19:22 |
| kanzure | right | 19:22 |
| QuantumG | unfortunately it has negative side-effects too | 19:22 |
| fenn | lots of negative side effects | 19:22 |
| Jata | absolutely. but i dont thikn skdb is there yet... correct me if i'm wrong | 19:22 |
| fenn | no, skdb is a pile of poo | 19:22 |
| kanzure | well the thing is that the parts about ordering stuff | 19:23 |
| QuantumG | fenn: so how are you powering your beagleboard? | 19:23 |
| kanzure | are actually much easier parts | 19:23 |
| fenn | QuantumG: 3.7V lithium batteries | 19:23 |
| kanzure | I mean, anybody can slap up a web interface to a store or something | 19:23 |
| kanzure | srsly | 19:23 |
| Jata | yeah... well, i think we've got some ideas of what we need to discuss. fenn, bryan, unless you need something, i'm ditching this channel | 19:23 |
| kanzure | Jata: glad you showed up | 19:23 |
| QuantumG | fenn: any ideas why that web site doesn't sell packs? | 19:23 |
| fenn | nice chatting | 19:23 |
| Jata | indeed | 19:23 |
| Jata | take care :-) | 19:23 |
| -!- Jata [n=chatzill@cpe-76-173-244-243.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5/20090624025744]"] | 19:24 | |
| kanzure | I bugged her so damn much about showing up in here | 19:24 |
| Smari | haha | 19:24 |
| Smari | well, she came | 19:24 |
| kanzure | Smari: sorry I was ignoring you | 19:25 |
| Smari | no worries. | 19:25 |
| fenn | i often feel like i'm not as smart as i used to be.. i wonder what it means | 19:27 |
| kanzure | I feel that way about me and programming | 19:27 |
| kanzure | I was a much better programmer when I was 12. | 19:27 |
| Smari | So was I. | 19:27 |
| Smari | I cry damnation every day on this account. | 19:27 |
| kanzure | is that before or after the beer | 19:28 |
| Smari | Before. | 19:28 |
| QuantumG | I wasn't a better programmer when I was younger.. but I certainly wrote more code.. I guess its easier to churn out crap. | 19:28 |
| Smari | Sweet alcohol eases the pain ;) | 19:28 |
| fenn | i've noticed that code almost writes itself if i'm sleep deprived | 19:29 |
| fenn | sort of the opposite of what you'd expect | 19:29 |
| fenn | but the price is that you dont get any new ideas | 19:30 |
| QuantumG | hehe.. I watch my cow-orkers check in code when its 2am their time and it is consistently their worst work. | 19:30 |
| fenn | QuantumG: what's the resolution on the wrap 920? | 19:33 |
| QuantumG | presumably it'll be similar to the VR920.. which is twin 640x480.. and some down-scaling so you can support 1024x768 video modes | 19:35 |
| fenn | why did you say 'not vga' then? | 19:35 |
| QuantumG | not a vga connector | 19:36 |
| fenn | oh. what's the connector then? | 19:36 |
| fenn | sorry. myvu is RCA composite | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | the VR920 has a vga connector.. | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | the AV920 is composite | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | and the Wrap 920AV will be composite | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | I do wonder if they'll make a vga version | 19:37 |
| fenn | hmm "please call for pricing" http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_taceye_lt.html | 19:39 |
| QuantumG | the Wrap 920AV with the two optional accessories (6DoF head tracking, and USB stereo camera pair) and the PhasAR input device or some other input device is starting to get to a decent augmented reality system | 19:39 |
| QuantumG | yeah.. they have a military line.. I ignore that stuff. It's less painful to just pretend it doesn't exist. | 19:40 |
| fenn | i dont get it.. it's the same shit, why does it cost 10X just to get one display instead of two | 19:41 |
| fenn | reminds me of imitation meat | 19:41 |
| QuantumG | probably because the military is stupid enough to pay? | 19:41 |
| fenn | 100% imitation costs 10x the price of 95% imitation meat | 19:41 |
| QuantumG | Vuzix are, clearly, a struggling hardware company who figures going consumer is the only way to stay in business.. only problem is: they suck at it. | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | I mean, shit | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | make an augmented reality system already | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | a complete solution | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | stick a price tag on it.. it'll be excessive, sure, but if you put a price tag on every part then people can cobble the system together as they can afford it. | 19:44 |
| QuantumG | ultimately, what's missing here is the vision. | 19:44 |
| fenn | right | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | there's no "this is what augmented reality is for" coming from Vuzix.. they just wanna sell widgits | 19:45 |
| fenn | nobody wants to watch DVD's on some weird thing in public | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | someone does | 19:45 |
| fenn | i sort of figured it was for porn or something | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | where public often means "planes" | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | because you aint doing it on the train | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | maybe with the Wrap 920AV you could though | 19:46 |
| fenn | eh? why? | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | because it is transparent | 19:46 |
| kanzure | Smari: you should set up tangiblebit to cia.vc | 19:46 |
| Smari | Why? | 19:46 |
| kanzure | Smari: we have an announcer bot in here (CIA-73) | 19:46 |
| kanzure | well it's so that we know when you commit | 19:46 |
| Smari | Ah. | 19:46 |
| kanzure | so that we can pull and play around with it | 19:47 |
| fenn | QuantumG: you must live in one of those places where people commute by train | 19:47 |
| Smari | yes | 19:47 |
| Smari | Indeed. | 19:47 |
| Smari | I'll do that. | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | fenn: indeed :) | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | I went on a train yesterday | 19:47 |
| kanzure | Smari: we just set up skdb yesterday, so presumably it will help bring some awareness that we're actually doing some work :p | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | there was commuters holding iPods watching tv | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | one of them was watching Enterprise | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | I silently mocked him | 19:47 |
| kanzure | guy from bus stop that fenn and I randomly met: "told my sister about you.....give her a holler and see if she can help you !! world domination dude !!!!!!" - on my facebook wall | 19:48 |
| fenn | just imagine, with pervasive AR you could summon a giant bird to take a dump on him | 19:48 |
| QuantumG | it's kinda funny that their camera optional accessory totally destroys the "almost normal" look of the device | 19:49 |
| QuantumG | without the cameras you might get comments like "hey, nice sun glasses dude" .. with the cameras you'll get people avoiding making eye contact | 19:49 |
| fenn | yeah cameras definitely belong at the sides | 19:50 |
| fenn | otherwise you look like a gecko at best | 19:50 |
| fenn | steve mann had it half right with the 45 degree mirror | 19:51 |
| fenn | (it should be a partially silvered mirror) | 19:51 |
| QuantumG | unfortunately he never did anything more to commercialize it than "call me if you wanna commercialize this and I'll ignore you" | 19:52 |
| fenn | commercial design firms just pump out mroe of the same crap over and over, with different plastic styling | 19:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: and then campbell wants us to "automatically design" with that plastic crap | 19:52 |
| kanzure | wtf. | 19:52 |
| QuantumG | fenn: well this Vuzix stuff is pretty unique.. as such they must be struggling | 19:53 |
| QuantumG | people buy what they know or what they're told by a personality to buy | 19:53 |
| fenn | i had a nice depressing surf this morning of DK ahn's "web portfolio" or whatever it was supposed to be (the guy behind http://youtube.com/watch?v=rWgPH1vMFTk ) | 19:54 |
| fenn | it's like people forgot how to play with legos | 19:54 |
| QuantumG | its not just legos | 19:55 |
| fenn | (previous comment was relevant because it shows the process by which "designers" are "educated") | 19:55 |
| QuantumG | cad cam has destroyed tinkering | 19:55 |
| kanzure | not true | 19:55 |
| kanzure | you just don't have a CADCAM tool | 19:55 |
| Smari | Where do I put ciabot.pl? | 19:55 |
| QuantumG | ya.. | 19:56 |
| fenn | Smari: if it's a bare repo it goes in the directory with config hooks/ etc | 19:56 |
| Smari | ah | 19:56 |
| Smari | I found it | 19:56 |
| fenn | QuantumG: i tend to agree somewhat; that's more of a failing with the way cad software has been designed than an inherent property | 19:57 |
| fenn | Smari: also take a look at http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/lazyweb:_git_cia_hooks/ | 19:57 |
| fenn | i'm not sure why it doesnt do that automatically | 19:57 |
| QuantumG | youtube is hating | 19:59 |
| QuantumG | givin' me the wheel of death every 10 seconds | 20:01 |
| fenn | youtube-dl.py ftw | 20:01 |
| fenn | why is it EDA cad allows use of standardized components but mechanical cad makes you do everything from scratch every time? | 20:03 |
| fenn | shouldnt there be an 'auto router' for mechanical stuff too? | 20:03 |
| fenn | "hold these parts in place" | 20:04 |
| kanzure | haven't we gone over this before? | 20:04 |
| fenn | yeah i'm just bitching | 20:04 |
| fenn | more of the same @ http://fennetic.net/cadwiki/ | 20:05 |
| fenn | "[calculate cost] by machining time, painting time, electricity consumed, number of assembly steps (total movement necessary to assemble the product)" | 20:07 |
| fenn | i guess i got that sort of backward | 20:07 |
| Smari | Testing the bot now.. | 20:07 |
| fenn | really you should be designing by choosing the cheapest processes in the first place | 20:08 |
| fenn | and that would affect the shape | 20:08 |
| Smari | I'm guessing that didn't work. | 20:08 |
| Smari | I'll fix it later. | 20:08 |
| Smari | gone! | 20:09 |
| QuantumG | fenn: do you recommend any AR software? | 20:09 |
| fenn | QuantumG: nope | 20:09 |
| kanzure | what does that mean? | 20:09 |
| fenn | QuantumG: it all looks like crap, unfortunately | 20:09 |
| fenn | i havent looked very hard though | 20:10 |
| QuantumG | k, so tell me, is there any open source software that can say "that's a face" on a live video stream? | 20:10 |
| fenn | opencv | 20:10 |
| fenn | or pretty much any vision library | 20:10 |
| QuantumG | that's one of the things I'd like an AR system to do.. record every face it sees, and (off-line if necessary) classify them.. eventually to the extent that it can overlay a box around the face and heads up info next to it. | 20:11 |
| kanzure | opencv yep | 20:12 |
| kanzure | I keep on recommending it but I haven't actually used it yet | 20:12 |
| QuantumG | you can assign names to the faces, notes, etc | 20:12 |
| kanzure | so somebody give me a bloody status note on it or something | 20:12 |
| QuantumG | I think I've downloaded it.. built it.. but I don't remember what, if anything, I did with it | 20:12 |
| fenn | i guess i keep assuming everyone will have some wearable thingy with geo coordinates | 20:13 |
| kanzure | ah finally got pythonOCC to continue compiling | 20:13 |
| kanzure | fenn: there was a LocOpe* file that included the same file that didn't exist that your last sed line didn't grab | 20:13 |
| kanzure | just because the list of files didn't include LocOpe* (it was TopOpe* only) | 20:13 |
| fenn | patch plz | 20:14 |
| kanzure | what do I diff against? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | or isn't there an svn patch command? | 20:14 |
| fenn | just be more verbose please | 20:14 |
| fenn | "since it may not be possible to go from geometry to process specification without some sort of feature-recognition algorithm (unlikely in a user-generated process specification) we'll have to have process specification tools that "render" to 3d geometry, for instance a thread-turning process will render to a helix with all the thread geometry specifics" | 20:15 |
| kanzure | that'd be nice to see in action | 20:16 |
| kanzure | is that kokompe? | 20:16 |
| fenn | that's what i'm doing this week | 20:16 |
| fenn | with pythonOCC and skdb | 20:16 |
| kanzure | did campbell ask you for that? | 20:16 |
| fenn | er, yeah i guess | 20:16 |
| kanzure | you're not one to spontaneously write large blocks of text | 20:16 |
| fenn | that was my "half assed random process string" idea | 20:16 |
| fenn | that text is from years ago | 20:17 |
| fenn | it's barely two sentences anyway | 20:17 |
| kanzure | for you that's a marathon | 20:19 |
| kanzure | does anyone know where wx.aui comes from for python? | 20:23 |
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| kanzure | I can't seem to figure this out | 20:30 |
| kanzure | fenn: how did you get pythonOCC/Tools/InteractiveViewer.py to run? | 20:30 |
| fenn | worked first try | 20:30 |
| kanzure | python version? | 20:30 |
| fenn | 2.6 | 20:30 |
| kanzure | for some reason apt is telling me that there is only 2.5 available | 20:31 |
| kanzure | and I'm back on testing | 20:31 |
| fenn | do you have stuff in /usr/share/pyshared/OCC/Display/ ? | 20:31 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:31 |
| kanzure | it says that it cannot find wx.aui | 20:31 |
| fenn | can you run the samples/ demos? | 20:31 |
| kanzure | and frankly neither can I. I have no idea which package it is in | 20:31 |
| kanzure | yes, but I need to set CSF_GraphicShr | 20:32 |
| fenn | /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx/aui.py | 20:32 |
| kanzure | yeah I have that too | 20:32 |
| kanzure | er, except for some reason I'm on python2.5/site-packages/..same.. | 20:33 |
| fenn | can you do "import wx.aui"? | 20:33 |
| fenn | (from pkg python-wxgtk2.8, now why didn apt-file find that?) | 20:34 |
| kanzure | no, that's what's complaining | 20:35 |
| kanzure | "import wx.aui" is what is failing | 20:35 |
| fenn | something's wrong with your sys.path i guess | 20:36 |
| fenn | if you really do have that file | 20:36 |
| kanzure | wx-2.6-gtk2-unicode is in my sys.path | 20:39 |
| kanzure | but not wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode | 20:39 |
| kanzure | er how does removing python-wxgtk2.6 require me to get 23.6 MB of new archives? | 20:40 |
| kanzure | math has defeated me | 20:41 |
| fenn | there's gotta be some open source version of this boxes and arrows stuff http://developer.apple.com/macosx/images/CoreDataSimpleDataModel.jpg | 20:41 |
| kanzure | UML? | 20:41 |
| kanzure | or, UML renderers, rather? | 20:42 |
| fenn | no, i just mean the boxes and arrows stuff | 20:42 |
| kanzure | graphviz does it if you feed it CSS that it likes | 20:42 |
| fenn | "graph widget" instead of tree widget | 20:42 |
| fenn | blender does it | 20:43 |
| kanzure | ? | 20:43 |
| fenn | in the materials editor, and some of the animation stuff | 20:44 |
| fenn | there's also some drawing program which i cant remember the name of | 20:44 |
| fenn | wtf googling "open source procedural" leads to this? http://openfarmtech.org/images/7/7d/Wheel_drive_circuit.jpg | 20:46 |
| fenn | the hive mind surely has me | 20:47 |
| kanzure | damn it fenn | 20:47 |
| kanzure | I was serious when I said no mind reading in here | 20:47 |
| kanzure | I'll kick you if I have to | 20:47 |
| kanzure | aha! | 20:48 |
| kanzure | #if you get "wx.aui" not found: | 20:48 |
| kanzure | sudo rm -f /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/wx.pth | 20:48 |
| kanzure | sudo echo "wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode" >> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/wx.pth | 20:48 |
| kanzure | InteractiveViewer.py now runs | 20:49 |
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| kanzure | wow it runs slow here | 20:49 |
| kanzure | awesome. all that work to get a slow-as-all-hell app. | 20:51 |
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| fenn | there's some open source compositing drawing program that has some kind of bird and trees as its logo, ring any bells? | 21:23 |
| kanzure | fenn: is there some better way to do this? from OCC.Display.wxSamplesGui import start_display, add_function_to_menu, add_menu | 21:24 |
| kanzure | oh wait nevermind | 21:25 |
| fenn | that looks fine | 21:25 |
| kanzure | well I could just do OCC.Display.wxSamplesGui.add_menu() | 21:25 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rac66a42460eb /pymates/pymates.py: pythonOCC+pymates integrated somewhat. need to write wrapper. | 21:29 |
| kanzure | please note this is only there for the time being | 21:31 |
| kanzure | there's no reason pymates should be a mainly graphical thing :p | 21:31 |
| kanzure | but campbell insists, so. | 21:31 |
| fenn | The concept of the fablab CAD/CAM toolset is to be able to describe almost anything, in a way that can be interpreted by almost any fabrication machine, to make parts for almost anything | 21:36 |
| fenn | Just as desktop publication is enabled by algorithmic representation of page layout (page description languages), the fablab CAD/CAM software enables desktop fabrication through algorithmic representation of three dimensional shapes and systems with functional components. | 21:36 |
| kanzure | yummy | 21:37 |
| fenn | where 'fablab cad/cam' = kokompe | 21:37 |
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| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/2009-07-17_pymates.png | 21:42 |
| kanzure | not that it's interesting | 21:42 |
| fenn | it makes a blank window? | 21:43 |
| kanzure | yep. fear me! | 21:44 |
| kanzure | you're not fearing >:( | 21:44 |
| kanzure | how am I going to run an efficient world domination co-op if you're not going to fear me? | 21:49 |
| kanzure | fenn: how did you get Utils working? | 21:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r18ba9bcc0740 /pymates/pymates.py: pymates loads CAD files. todo: wx menu file selector. | 22:06 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rd7d56e1ac6ec /pymates/pymates.py: added wx.FileSelector() | 22:55 |
| genehacker | don't they already have that? | 23:24 |
| genehacker | sounds like you're reinventing the wheel | 23:28 |
| ybit | david dalrymple, 13 year old who graduated from MIT in 2005, that david dalrymple? never heard of him ...'til just now | 23:53 |
| ybit | kanzure: suppose you met him last summer during your internship? | 23:53 |
| ybit | met a hot waitress today studying to be a neurosurgeon, needless to say, we hit off well | 23:55 |
| * ybit got the digits | 23:55 | |
| ybit | "back of the net!" | 23:55 |
| bkero | digitz? | 23:57 |
| * ybit is persuading her to join the darkside of neuroeng | 23:58 | |
| ybit | back to reading teh logs | 23:59 |
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