| --- Day changed Sun Jul 19 2009 | ||
| kanzure | um how do I delete the last three commits? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | git rebase --onto master~3 | 00:00 |
| -!- genehacker [n=chatzill@cpe-67-9-157-136.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap | 00:00 | |
| kanzure | thanks | 00:00 |
| genehacker | heh | 00:01 |
| genehacker | this website came up showing my computer had viruses | 00:01 |
| genehacker | with fake winblows folders and everything | 00:01 |
| genehacker | I loled | 00:01 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@81-15-55-92.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 00:06 | |
| CIA-73 | skdb: * r0e892a4273da /trans-tech.yaml: more | 00:08 |
| fenn | genehacker: welcome to the higher moral ground | 00:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | hmm,, praps i should ask in here,,, how can i improve the 3D effect on http://DesignerThinking.com/stereoimages.html ? | 00:12 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r7c47e0952968 /trans-tech.yaml: tried trans-tech mods | 00:13 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: looks good to me; why do you want to improve it? | 00:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | to make it look exelent | 00:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | is there anything i overlooked in the technique? | 00:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | tomorrow i start plating the hull over, so tomorrow is the last day to redo pics of the framing | 00:16 |
| kanzure | functionality is a tree but the dependency is a graph? | 00:18 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: well it looks crappy because you're scaling the images in the browser instead of with an image editing program | 00:23 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@dsl-149-118-111.hive.is] has joined #hplusroadmap | 00:28 | |
| kanzure | hey Smari | 00:33 |
| Smari | y0 | 00:33 |
| Smari | I'm actually going to sleep. | 00:33 |
| Smari | it's 5:30 :P | 00:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | fenn, i did scale them to 800x600 in imagemajik | 00:41 |
| katsmeow-afk | i should scale them smaller? | 00:41 |
| fenn | two 800x600 pictures side by side means the viewer should have a 1600+ pixel monitor | 00:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | 400x300 ? | 00:45 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@dsl-149-118-111.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 00:46 | |
| katsmeow-afk | 600x450? | 00:46 |
| fenn | meh | 00:46 |
| fenn | it doesnt look that bad as-is | 00:47 |
| fenn | i've just never seen dynamic scaling anywhere on purpose | 00:47 |
| fenn | it's usually people being lazy or stupid | 00:47 |
| katsmeow-afk | i got tired of every other webpage being fixed too wide | 00:47 |
| kanzure | git fetch foo -- | 00:53 |
| kanzure | git merge foo/master | 00:53 |
| kanzure | git remote add foo /tmp/test_work #this was done a few lines above | 00:53 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r14c685a39220 /dep/dep.py: work on dep.py | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r5691a719f7b1 /dep/dep.py: commenting, some unit tests | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rf12d2429a739 /dep/dep.py: step methods for dep.py | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rf7fc1e8f69ff /dep/dep.py: fucked up the one unit test. | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rd5faaab45f55 /dep/dep.py: debugging the unit test (it works now) | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rab0c93e9bda6 /dep/dep.py: removing cruft | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r62c2bccda4b7 /dep/dep.py: dep.py stuff | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r7ba4586a0fca /dep/dependency.py: added dependency.py ideas | 00:54 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rbeb860c9a38a /dep/ (dep.py dependency.py): Merge commit 'foo/master' | 00:54 |
| QuantumG | I started some new work yesterday.. considered using git for about 2 minutes.. then just used bzr | 00:54 |
| kanzure | Use of uninitialized value $parent[0] in concatenation (.) or string at /var/www/skdb.git/ciabot_git.pl line 147. | 00:54 |
| kanzure | error: Object 64d31c9c56250ac6e200d0aadcd35d7321f0f45f is a tree, not a commit | 00:54 |
| kanzure | yay for git-import-folder (when it works) | 00:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | fenn, refresh | 00:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | the 2nd and 4th are 400x300 from the original 7megapixels images | 00:56 |
| fenn | you mean 3rd and 4th? | 00:57 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/beb860c9a38a8b20a2579dc822265b83bb50c6c8/dep/dep.py | 00:57 |
| kanzure | that was imported from my ~/sandbox/dep/ folder | 00:57 |
| kanzure | and note how the history is magically preserved :) | 00:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, sorry | 00:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | that apparent? they do look less jaggy | 00:57 |
| fenn | QuantumG: most people just go with whatever they're familiar with | 00:59 |
| katsmeow-afk | but i don't have a huge screen to look at the page on, so i dunno what that is doing to layout, or to the other pics | 00:59 |
| fenn | they look exactly the same except for jaggies, on my 1024x768 monitor | 01:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | same size as m ine | 01:00 |
| * katsmeow-afk edits out the bigger pics then | 01:00 | |
| QuantumG | I'm probably equally familiar with git and bzr... and much more familiar with svn... it's just that I find bzr the easiest to use. | 01:02 |
| -!- any76103195 [n=someone@75-120-43-228.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 01:13 | |
| -!- katsmeow-afk [n=someone@75-120-9-252.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] | 01:13 | |
| -!- any76103195 is now known as katsmeow-afk | 01:13 | |
| katsmeow-afk | thanks fenn :-) | 01:15 |
| bkero | <3 mah git | 01:16 |
| kanzure | http://gnowgi.org/2008/12/16/debian-dependency-map/ | 01:31 |
| bkero | http://dionysian-mind.net/pics/Rapeclock.jpg | 01:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.gnowledge.org/ | 01:32 |
| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/debgraph | 01:32 |
| kanzure | "Just a note from a maintainer’s perspective: “pruning” redundant edges might give you a graph that is nicer to look at, but loses some important information." | 01:33 |
| * katsmeow-afk slaps bkero again | 01:33 | |
| kanzure | "I hope, that by looking at the graph, I will be able to identify clusters of dependencies, and split the package in a near-optimal way." | 01:33 |
| bkero | http://www.gnowledge.org/debmap_view?objid=ddate | 01:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.gnowledge.org/debmap_view?objid=python | 01:34 |
| kanzure | heh | 01:34 |
| bkero | katsmeow-afk: good heavens, just look at the time | 01:35 |
| kanzure | oh man | 01:35 |
| kanzure | http://www.gnowledge.org/debmap_view?objid=kde-core | 01:35 |
| kanzure | kde depends on perl? hah | 01:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, if anyone wants to know why i don't date, i can point to you as well as some others, bkero | 01:36 |
| bkero | This is why I don't use KDE: http://www.gnowledge.org/debmap_view?objid=amarok | 01:36 |
| bkero | katsmeow-afk: Are you a woman? | 01:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas | 01:36 |
| bkero | and that sort of humor doesn't appeal to you? | 01:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | rape? nope | 01:37 |
| bkero | It's not the rape that's humorous, it's pyramid head. | 01:37 |
| kanzure | well at least men can laugh about us getting raped | 01:37 |
| bkero | also, a clock | 01:37 |
| kanzure | it's a common stereotype to assume that men are not raped | 01:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | if it weren't true that a rape occused,, what, every 80 seconds in the usa | 01:37 |
| kanzure | occused or occured? | 01:38 |
| bkero | katsmeow-afk: I can guarantee that I'm unlike any other person you've ever met. | 01:38 |
| kanzure | guess it doesn't make much of a difference | 01:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | kanzure, i did not assume men are not raped, lots legal cases of cops using battons to rape men | 01:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | occurs | 01:38 |
| bkero | also lots of men raping men, and women raping men | 01:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | and women raping women | 01:38 |
| kanzure | look at the time | 01:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | doesn't really matter who is doing it to whom | 01:39 |
| bkero | It's rape. | 01:39 |
| bkero | katsmeow-afk: Maybe my picture was social commentary on how tragically common rape is. | 01:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.gnowledge.org/scalefree | 01:39 |
| -!- Overand is now known as Overand|Bitchy_m | 01:40 | |
| bkero | Maybe rapes per capita should be a dataset available by country per year on gapminder. | 01:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | k | 01:40 |
| -!- Overand|Bitchy_m is now known as Overand|Bitchy | 01:40 | |
| kanzure | http://www.gnowledge.org/featured_maps?subject=bio&objid=517&level=3 meh? what's going on here? | 01:40 |
| kanzure | hey Overand. | 01:40 |
| Overand|Bitchy | hi. | 01:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, this could be taken two ways : Several of us use Debian GNU/Linux and among other features we have all appreciated the way Debian software package dependencies are calculated to give us astable package. | 01:42 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: I neglected to mention why I was bringing this up | 01:42 |
| * katsmeow-afk listens | 01:42 | |
| kanzure | I recently committed skdb/dep/dep.py | 01:43 |
| kanzure | it's basically some classes for dependency graph modelling | 01:43 |
| kanzure | related to hardware and so on | 01:43 |
| kanzure | right now it sucks immensely | 01:43 |
| kanzure | but this is something that there should be unit tests for, for instance | 01:43 |
| kanzure | it's a useful way of thinking.. and could be improved with some software backing up the thinking and concepts for planning | 01:43 |
| bkero | kanzure: Shouldn't a DEPEND and RDEPEND lists cover that sort of thing? | 01:43 |
| kanzure | in fact, I kind of already implement this when I think naturally- regarding resolved dependencies versus unresolved dependencies, et. | 01:44 |
| kanzure | bkero: RDEPEND? | 01:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | i'd like to see the pics fit on one screen | 01:44 |
| kanzure | heh | 01:44 |
| kanzure | what else are you going to do with all that whitespace | 01:44 |
| kanzure | but draw arcs :( | 01:44 |
| bkero | kanzure: reverse dependencies | 01:44 |
| kanzure | er, what are reverse dependencies? | 01:45 |
| bkero | THey exist in bitbake files, ebuild files, and arch packages | 01:45 |
| bkero | kanzure: runtime dependencies | 01:45 |
| kanzure | I see. | 01:45 |
| kanzure | but these are different from regular dependencies? | 01:45 |
| bkero | Sometimes | 01:45 |
| bkero | http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/dependencies/index.html | 01:45 |
| kanzure | I need a way to model this. | 01:46 |
| kanzure | so, if you look at skdb/trans-tech.yaml, there's this dependency graph of interesting transhumanist projects | 01:46 |
| kanzure | but the problem is that it's not easy to "think" about | 01:46 |
| bkero | kanzure: package object, has a list of package IDs | 01:46 |
| kanzure | because you're not sure if you're introducing cycles or other weird shit | 01:46 |
| kanzure | and this is all backwards anyway | 01:46 |
| kanzure | since most of this stuff doesn't happen top-down | 01:46 |
| bkero | kanzure: deb = new package; deb.dependencies = [screwhead1, screwhead2, thread1] | 01:47 |
| kanzure | and it's kind of weird since as you resolve dependencies, the number of unmet dependencies decreases, or something | 01:47 |
| kanzure | right | 01:47 |
| kanzure | but then you want to do other things as well like maybe: | 01:47 |
| kanzure | print_dependencies() | 01:47 |
| kanzure | print_dependencies(depth=inf) | 01:47 |
| bkero | Just a recursive function | 01:47 |
| kanzure | print_dependencies(depth=inf, deb) | 01:48 |
| kanzure | yeah | 01:48 |
| kanzure | but then what about finding cycles? | 01:48 |
| kanzure | I have a find_all_cycles() method in skdb/graphtheory.py | 01:48 |
| kanzure | hm | 01:48 |
| bkero | Just yank cyclical dependency finding from apt | 01:48 |
| kanzure | this isn't for software | 01:48 |
| kanzure | oh, you mean from the sources | 01:48 |
| kanzure | yeah I already have some code written for it | 01:48 |
| kanzure | I'm just trying to think up some useful tools that would help me | 01:48 |
| kanzure | help me interactively construct these graphs | 01:48 |
| kanzure | so that it will yell at me if I do something stupid | 01:48 |
| kanzure | or throw an exception if something stupid is happening | 01:49 |
| kanzure | or if there is some sort of redundancy, or something. | 01:49 |
| bkero | That's what exceptions are for | 01:49 |
| kanzure | this is hard to explain | 01:49 |
| bkero | katsmeow-afk: What do you do? | 01:49 |
| katsmeow-afk | nothing | 01:49 |
| bkero | Do you want to do anything? | 01:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | yes | 01:50 |
| bkero | What would you like to do? | 01:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | do well what i do | 01:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | do more of it | 01:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | get paid in some way for doing it | 01:51 |
| kanzure | sounds like a recipe for disaster | 01:51 |
| bkero | You want to refine your ability to do nothing? | 01:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | praps i did not understand the question | 01:51 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk welds | 01:51 |
| ybit | from what i gather, and so do you bkero | 01:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | yet, i do not get paid for welding | 01:51 |
| * ybit is sleepy | 01:52 | |
| ybit | too much emacs for one day, time for bed | 01:52 |
| bkero | I've done a bit of welding | 01:52 |
| * ybit waves goodnight | 01:52 | |
| bkero | Goodnight ybit. | 01:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | gnite ybit | 01:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | i do what's doc'd on my webpages, and more | 01:53 |
| bkero | I do a lot of things, welding happens to be one of them. I don't have a traditional welder, which is often problematic. | 01:53 |
| bkero | People are very shy of my welder, and often tell me that they feel like it is going to kill them just by being near it. | 01:53 |
| katsmeow-afk | i removed some things from the website, like the pcb driller | 01:53 |
| bkero | Drilling holes in PCB? Why? | 01:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | for thru-hole components | 01:54 |
| bkero | Er, I understand why | 01:54 |
| bkero | But why remove it? | 01:54 |
| katsmeow-afk | i feel i was intensely ridiculed about it, especially the use of flex shaft couplings and "pink" string | 01:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | i also destroyed the driller frame | 01:56 |
| bkero | Didn't realize a PCB could be that tough on a driller. | 01:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | cutting torch is | 01:56 |
| bkero | True | 01:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | seems, according to everyone who saw the pics, pink string invalidaed the entire copncept of a working pcb driller | 01:57 |
| bkero | :/ That's their loss. | 01:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | i could not justify to them the project, so i trashed it | 01:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | no, there's more of them than me | 01:58 |
| -!- Overand|Bitchy is now known as Overand | 01:59 | |
| bkero | People online will find anything to bitch about :/ | 01:59 |
| bkero | A PCB driller sounds useful to me, regardless of the color of string you uesd. | 02:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | i thought so also | 02:01 |
| bkero | I'm always looking to build new tools for myself. :) | 02:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | if i build another on the boat, i won't be putting pics online of it | 02:02 |
| bkero | There's a boat involved? :) | 02:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, it goes behind the pics of the bow i mentioned to fenn | 02:02 |
| * bkero scrolls back | 02:03 | |
| bkero | I see them now | 02:05 |
| bkero | That's some intricate welding work! | 02:06 |
| bkero | Much better than mine. | 02:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | use real welding rods :-) | 02:06 |
| bkero | Welding rods? Hell, I don't even have real electrodes! | 02:06 |
| bkero | Or welding cable. It's jumper cables, a C-clamp, and vice grips. | 02:07 |
| katsmeow-afk | i wouldn't build such a boat without welding rods, i wouldn't trust the welds in the open ocean | 02:08 |
| bkero | I can't get a very good sense of scale from those pictures, how big is that bow? | 02:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | 11.5ft long, 46inches diameter/tall | 02:09 |
| CIA-73 | djangit: Meredith L. Patterson master * r77d1d6e / templates/view.html : view.html not prettyprinted but much better now - http://bit.ly/xxobf | 02:09 |
| genehacker | huh? | 02:09 |
| genehacker | what's CIA and why is Meredith using it | 02:09 |
| bkero | Damn, that's bigger than anything I've made. | 02:09 |
| bkero | genehacker: CIA reports code commits | 02:10 |
| * maradydd made a small commit | 02:10 | |
| katsmeow-afk | well, back up using the menu to the little boat,, which i can't launch anymore | 02:10 |
| maradydd | it's early. | 02:10 |
| kanzure | hey maradydd | 02:11 |
| maradydd | mornin | 02:12 |
| * maradydd deliberates between staggering out to look for caffeine or just going back to bed | 02:12 | |
| genehacker | I am fully awake | 02:12 |
| kanzure | caffeine in bed is better | 02:12 |
| genehacker | but I shouldn't be | 02:12 |
| maradydd | nngh | 02:12 |
| maradydd | that means making coffee | 02:12 |
| genehacker | do you mean HNNNNNNNNGGG? | 02:12 |
| kanzure | bah | 02:12 |
| maradydd | and our sink is totally lame and always clogs | 02:13 |
| * maradydd needs a compost pile and a hose | 02:13 | |
| genehacker | my circadian is desynchronized | 02:13 |
| kanzure | maradydd: so we posted some stuff to skdb btw. feel free to clone or pull from http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git/ | 02:13 |
| bkero | The sink in our hacker space is unusable. :/ Someone decided to pour a bunch of paint down it without water, so it's completely backed up. | 02:13 |
| maradydd | what is skdb anyway? | 02:13 |
| maradydd | bkero: oh, lame :( acrylic? | 02:13 |
| kanzure | maradydd: an open source hardware management system | 02:13 |
| bkero | maradydd: latex | 02:13 |
| kanzure | maradydd: it's "apt-get for real stuff" | 02:13 |
| * katsmeow-afk waves gnites | 02:14 | |
| kanzure | maradydd: you should check out the code. in particular check out skdb/skdb.py and skdb/processes.yaml I guess | 02:14 |
| maradydd | bkero: ugh. :( that's pretty much "replace the trap" right there | 02:14 |
| genehacker | katsmeowafk gonna sail to New Zealand? | 02:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | i wish | 02:14 |
| bkero | maradydd: We don't know how far it went in either :( | 02:14 |
| genehacker | or somewhere else if things get bad? | 02:14 |
| bkero | But I'm going to have to put on my plumbing hat tomorrow. | 02:14 |
| genehacker | does it have an M or L on it? | 02:14 |
| kanzure | maradydd: so think of it as a tool for DIY hardware- tracking dependencies or requirements for which tools are required to build which other tools; assembly instructions; alternative ways to implement it. | 02:15 |
| maradydd | kanzure: mk. at some point it would be cool if you could comment urls.py (or something...) with a representation of what the layout of stuff that djangit is supposed to display looks like | 02:15 |
| kanzure | layout stuff? | 02:15 |
| kanzure | what? | 02:15 |
| maradydd | layout *of* stuff | 02:15 |
| maradydd | tree diagram | 02:15 |
| kanzure | oh | 02:15 |
| kanzure | well there is no tree | 02:15 |
| maradydd | ie when i click on a folder from the home view, what view should i see | 02:15 |
| maradydd | yes | 02:16 |
| maradydd | there is | 02:16 |
| maradydd | it's just in your head and not in the docs :P | 02:16 |
| kanzure | nope, the tree is the file tree in the repo | 02:16 |
| maradydd | when i click on history, what should i see, when i click on actions, what should i see, when i click on a filename, what should i see | 02:16 |
| kanzure | and then every file has a / (view) and a /history and /archive and /edit | 02:16 |
| kanzure | okay | 02:16 |
| maradydd | ok so *what do those look like* | 02:16 |
| kanzure | yes then, that should be done | 02:16 |
| kanzure | oh wait | 02:16 |
| maradydd | what data should they contain | 02:16 |
| kanzure | maradydd: try this: http://adl.serveftp.org:4567/ | 02:16 |
| kanzure | ah it doesn't load | 02:17 |
| kanzure | fooey | 02:17 |
| kanzure | well anyway, it's git-wiki | 02:17 |
| kanzure | djangit is a copy of git-wiki | 02:17 |
| kanzure | git-wiki is written in ruby on rails | 02:17 |
| kanzure | but I find it unmaintainable | 02:17 |
| maradydd | oh, ok then | 02:17 |
| kanzure | git-wiki is mostly fully implemented. | 02:17 |
| kanzure | so if you go find it and download it from github, you'll get a pretty good idea of wtf is supposed to be going on | 02:17 |
| maradydd | we can rip off their presentation, that's fine | 02:18 |
| kanzure | yep that's what I've been doing :) | 02:18 |
| kanzure | HTML/CSS sucks | 02:18 |
| maradydd | yeh | 02:18 |
| maradydd | make things skinnable | 02:18 |
| maradydd | sigh. i think i'm awake | 02:19 |
| kanzure | so sorry | 02:19 |
| * maradydd shakes fist at husband | 02:19 | |
| maradydd | what does he think he's doing, calling me at 8am | 02:19 |
| maradydd | on a sunday | 02:19 |
| maradydd | kanzure: get me a redbull | 02:20 |
| kanzure | wah | 02:20 |
| kanzure | I only fetch beers | 02:20 |
| maradydd | kanzure: sudo get me a redbull | 02:20 |
| kanzure | and even then, only for me. | 02:20 |
| genehacker | we can't get you a redbull | 02:22 |
| maradydd | see, that's how you know skdb will really have made it | 02:22 |
| genehacker | we can give you instructions on how to make it though | 02:22 |
| genehacker | step one get water | 02:22 |
| genehacker | get co2 | 02:22 |
| maradydd | when i can have it apt-get me a redbull | 02:22 |
| genehacker | cool water to 69 degrees [ERROR VARIABLE UNIT NOT FOUND] | 02:23 |
| maradydd | i mean we can start with coffee | 02:23 |
| genehacker | bubble co2 through water | 02:23 |
| * maradydd intends to finish wiring the glove today | 02:24 | |
| genehacker | add red bull syrup to carbonated water | 02:24 |
| bkero | Speaking of xkcd...One of the girls in the programmer pen drew this the other day: http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs194.snc1/6533_128702625217_739175217_3516978_7569090_n.jpg | 02:24 |
| genehacker | oh it's you | 02:24 |
| genehacker | didn't realize you ever came in here | 02:24 |
| maradydd | oh, well done | 02:25 |
| genehacker | though you might use bacteria to make the caffeine and taurine | 02:25 |
| kanzure | I'm secretly asleep right now | 02:26 |
| kanzure | but yes, apt-get me food | 02:26 |
| kanzure | apt-gimme food | 02:26 |
| genehacker | ok would you like it delievered via ICBM? | 02:26 |
| maradydd | kanzure: there's potential to tap into local distribution networks | 02:27 |
| * bkero has bacon+gouda pizza in the fridge. | 02:27 | |
| maradydd | in sf i frequently satisfied my hunger via eat24hours.com | 02:27 |
| bkero | kanzure: If you fly up to Oregon, I will give you free food. | 02:27 |
| maradydd | there's a similar site here in leuven but it's in dutch :( | 02:27 |
| kanzure | maradydd: yep | 02:27 |
| genehacker | SUCH WEBSITES EXISTS? | 02:27 |
| maradydd | i ordered chicken penne and prawns in tomato cream sauce | 02:27 |
| maradydd | credit card transaction | 02:27 |
| bkero | Google bought all it's employees dinner every Friday. It was very nice, I'd just go to some web site, order whatever I wanted, and work would pick itup. | 02:28 |
| maradydd | what the world needs is a microformat for ordering food | 02:28 |
| bkero | maradydd: That sounds amazing, I want some. | 02:28 |
| maradydd | bkero: the chicken penne was nothing to write home about but the prawns were fabulous | 02:28 |
| maradydd | i soaked up all the remaining tomato cream sauce with garlic bread and ate it | 02:29 |
| genehacker | well the problem is that those in the restaurant business aren't really that interested in formats | 02:29 |
| genehacker | it would be hard to force them to adopt one | 02:29 |
| bkero | Yea, mostly I was mesmerized by the prospect of a tomato cream sauce. | 02:29 |
| maradydd | bkero: not that hard to make -- you know how to make an alfredo sauce? | 02:30 |
| bkero | I make alfredo sauce all the time. | 02:30 |
| maradydd | genehacker: yeah, i'm thinking way ahead to the future | 02:30 |
| bkero | Just tomato+alfredo? | 02:30 |
| splicer | have you considered the possibility to just let third world kids do the manufacturing? | 02:30 |
| maradydd | genehacker: the food-ordering websites i've seen invariably have a little self-updating javascript window totting up what you've ordered | 02:30 |
| kanzure | splicer: why make people do it | 02:31 |
| splicer | cause it can be done now | 02:31 |
| splicer | + simple | 02:31 |
| maradydd | bkero: fundamentally, yes. it's a good sauce base. when i make it myself i'll sometimes throw in a shot of booze and let it cook off | 02:31 |
| maradydd | bkero: vodka in particular | 02:31 |
| splicer | just get people to maufacture the kids | 02:31 |
| bkero | I swung by the farmers market today and picked up milk, butter, honey, green peppers, salmon, red+white onions, asian cucumbers, cabbage, and 2 pints of blueberries :) | 02:31 |
| genehacker | well the best place to force adoption would be silicon valley due to the high density of people who'd use it | 02:31 |
| genehacker | I had insta-meal yakisoba | 02:32 |
| genehacker | it was good | 02:32 |
| bkero | maradydd: Do you think rum would work? I just have some white rum about. | 02:32 |
| maradydd | genehacker: you don't "force" adoption, you turn someone on to the idea, then show why it's useful | 02:32 |
| genehacker | that's what I mean | 02:32 |
| maradydd | bkero: oh, white rum would be very nice. some spicy peppers too. | 02:32 |
| maradydd | genehacker: the ultimate goal being for me to be able to apt-get a cheeseburger at 2am anywhere in the world | 02:32 |
| genehacker | I am considering making a robot to make ramen and the sort | 02:32 |
| maradydd | over time you make it location aware | 02:32 |
| maradydd | and so on | 02:32 |
| bkero | These are green peppers, not very spicy at all :(. I just have very spicy curry. I'd have to go settle with safeway spicy peppers. | 02:32 |
| genehacker | that is a noble goal | 02:32 |
| genehacker | I support you | 02:32 |
| bkero | genehacker: japan already beat you to that | 02:33 |
| * maradydd is a simple soul, really | 02:33 | |
| maradydd | bkero: cayenne powder? | 02:33 |
| bkero | I suppose I do have some of that somewhere | 02:33 |
| * bkero just moved to new apartment. | 02:33 | |
| maradydd | ah, exciting | 02:33 |
| -!- genehacker is now known as genehacker_light | 02:33 | |
| * maradydd 's spousal unit is packing up the old apartment | 02:33 | |
| bkero | I'm supposed to be in Germany right now, but I passed that opportunity up to move my belongings 5 blocks away from my last apartment. | 02:33 |
| maradydd | what's in germany? | 02:34 |
| genehacker_light | btw how do you do diybio in an apartment? | 02:34 |
| bkero | phpBB is having their annual get-together. | 02:34 |
| maradydd | genehacker_light: cleanly. | 02:34 |
| bkero | They invited me to go since I'm their sysadmin, but I declined. | 02:34 |
| genehacker_light | could one do small scale distilling in an apartment? | 02:34 |
| bkero | genehacker_light: I have a 2bdrm, with one bedroom sealed, air filtered, monitored :) | 02:34 |
| maradydd | sure, just don't blow shit up | 02:35 |
| bkero | Yea, but distilling is illegal :( | 02:35 |
| genehacker_light | not alcohol | 02:35 |
| genehacker_light | small scale | 02:35 |
| genehacker_light | production of pure chemicals necessary for DNA synthesis | 02:35 |
| maradydd | i know some guys that make beer in their downstairs shower | 02:35 |
| maradydd | another guy and his wife make beer in their guest bathroom | 02:35 |
| bkero | Hehe | 02:35 |
| bkero | I make beer in my closet. | 02:35 |
| genehacker_light | some of the stuff I want to do involves phosgene gas | 02:36 |
| genehacker_light | which scares me | 02:36 |
| splicer | distilling can smell too | 02:36 |
| bkero | Everybody in Oregon brews their own beer. :) | 02:36 |
| genehacker_light | a lot | 02:36 |
| genehacker_light | brb going to the darkside | 02:37 |
| bkero | ...the force? | 02:37 |
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| bkero | maradydd: I do have to give you kudos. I've never heard a lady even mention microformats, let alone bring up such an epic idea as microformats for food ordering. | 02:38 |
| splicer | a lady even ;) | 02:39 |
| maradydd | as i said, i am a simple being. i want simple things, like 2am cheeseburgers. :P | 02:39 |
| * bkero has eaten too much junk food. Right now I'll settle for 12:37AM sugar snap peas. | 02:40 | |
| maradydd | well, it's 9:30am, so that means breakfast | 02:40 |
| maradydd | and the bakery people are on vacation this week, so i get to explore and find out what's open | 02:41 |
| bkero | Oh, damn. You must be over in Europeland | 02:41 |
| maradydd | yup | 02:41 |
| * bkero wants to visit. | 02:41 | |
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| bkero | I've got a lot of old high school friends in Stockholm and Oslo. | 02:41 |
| genehacker_darks | bkero not the darkside some far more evil | 02:41 |
| genehacker_darks | vista | 02:41 |
| bkero | genehacker_darks: kill yourself | 02:42 |
| * maradydd doesn't live particularly close to scandinavia, but belgium's nice | 02:42 | |
| maradydd | we have the best beer | 02:42 |
| -!- genehacker_darks is now known as genehacker_dark | 02:42 | |
| bkero | That's a heavily contested title. :) | 02:42 |
| maradydd | no, really, we do. :) | 02:42 |
| * splicer lives in scandinavia | 02:42 | |
| genehacker_dark | bkero, can't get my cad program to work in linux | 02:42 |
| bkero | :( | 02:43 |
| bkero | maradydd: What kind of Belgian beer should I try? | 02:43 |
| maradydd | depends. what kind of beers you like usually? | 02:44 |
| maradydd | ambers, lagers, pilsners... | 02:44 |
| genehacker_dark | :( | 02:44 |
| bkero | Hoppy with a full head, usually a lager. | 02:44 |
| bkero | I'm really into a good Bock though. | 02:45 |
| maradydd | hopus, if you can find it | 02:45 |
| maradydd | any trappist dubbel or tripel | 02:45 |
| maradydd | duvel's probably not that hard to find | 02:45 |
| maradydd | though i particularly love kasteelbier donkel | 02:45 |
| genehacker_dark | laughs manically | 02:46 |
| bkero | The only Bocks I get out here are an Aventinus Eisbock, and a Rogue Dead Guy. | 02:46 |
| * bkero considers which store would have a good selection of belgian beer. | 02:46 | |
| * maradydd misses shiner bock | 02:46 | |
| genehacker_dark | ugh wrong command | 02:46 |
| bkero | What's shiner bock? | 02:47 |
| maradydd | a bock from texas | 02:47 |
| maradydd | they make it near where i grew up | 02:47 |
| * bkero spent a lot of time in McAllen | 02:48 | |
| maradydd | i'm sorry :( | 02:48 |
| bkero | Friends ran a business out of Renosa | 02:48 |
| bkero | Went across the border every day to go to work | 02:48 |
| genehacker_dark | texas? | 02:48 |
| bkero | Only white people on the entire block. | 02:48 |
| bkero | Aye | 02:49 |
| genehacker_dark | that's where kanzure, fenn, and I am | 02:49 |
| bkero | I'm in Oregon. It's not as hot here. | 02:49 |
| * maradydd grew up in houston | 02:49 | |
| bkero | My ex girlfriend is on the road right now traveling through Tennessee on her way to Houston. | 02:50 |
| bkero | She's visiting an aunt who lives there. | 02:50 |
| genehacker_dark | speaking of houston: | 02:50 |
| genehacker_dark | http://www.huliq.com/1/81975/experts-say-houston-dome-may-help-environment | 02:50 |
| maradydd | huh. yes, rain is a very good question | 02:54 |
| maradydd | ok bbiab | 02:54 |
| genehacker_dark | it requires blimps to make it... | 02:56 |
| genehacker_dark | rather impractical | 02:56 |
| splicer | 1950ies sci fi | 03:00 |
| splicer | why not rekindle project orion and send it to space | 03:01 |
| genehacker_dark | why? | 03:02 |
| genehacker_dark | fallout | 03:02 |
| genehacker_dark | that's why | 03:03 |
| splicer | no hurricanes | 03:03 |
| genehacker_dark | probability of some of the crew dying during take off | 03:03 |
| splicer | + in space no one can hear you file share | 03:03 |
| genehacker_dark | yeah | 03:03 |
| genehacker_dark | but getting the plutonium is hard | 03:03 |
| kanzure | make it yourself | 03:03 |
| kanzure | nucleosynthesis | 03:04 |
| genehacker_dark | building the plutonium implosion type bomb is hard | 03:04 |
| genehacker_dark | from U-238 using neutron bombardment | 03:04 |
| genehacker_dark | hmmm... | 03:04 |
| genehacker_dark | quite interesting | 03:04 |
| genehacker_dark | fusion could be easier | 03:04 |
| genehacker_dark | you saw that plasmak stuff, right kanzure? | 03:05 |
| splicer | i don't think the boms are a problem... people were putting bombs on everything already in the 50:ies | 03:05 |
| genehacker_dark | even in houses? | 03:06 |
| genehacker_dark | oh wait.. | 03:06 |
| maradydd | so bryan | 03:06 |
| splicer | probably.. if not you could always leave a back pack bomb there | 03:06 |
| genehacker_dark | plasmak people started in a garage | 03:06 |
| maradydd | part of what i see djangit being particularly useful for is roy fielding's RESTful future | 03:06 |
| genehacker_dark | but moved out when they were too successful | 03:06 |
| maradydd | because django exposes data stores to the RESTful web | 03:07 |
| genehacker_dark | and the braking radiation | 03:07 |
| maradydd | and everything in a git repo is uniquely addressbale | 03:07 |
| maradydd | *addressable | 03:07 |
| maradydd | death before dishonour, nothing before caffeine | 03:07 |
| genehacker_dark | ooops | 03:07 |
| genehacker_dark | I read the wrong number, guess this motor I'm designing will work afterall | 03:08 |
| maradydd | there should, for instance, be inventory tracking software that my local electronics store uses to display their entire stock inventory to the internet | 03:08 |
| maradydd | also i should get a pony | 03:09 |
| genehacker_dark | don't get one of those miniature ones, they weren't selected for niceness in the 50s | 03:11 |
| genehacker_dark | IE they bite | 03:11 |
| bkero | maradydd: we just use digikey :) | 03:11 |
| genehacker_dark | bkero | 03:12 |
| maradydd | digikey should be restful too :P | 03:12 |
| genehacker_dark | I have a local electronics store that ROCKS | 03:12 |
| genehacker_dark | but alas the only problem is that you have to check if they have parts | 03:13 |
| kanzure | octopart.org shouldn't suck so much | 03:13 |
| bkero | Yea | 03:13 |
| genehacker_dark | meredith has a point there | 03:13 |
| bkero | Octopart is about as good as it gets though | 03:13 |
| kanzure | how could this be :( | 03:13 |
| maradydd | eh, we'll fix it | 03:13 |
| bkero | maradydd: Make a python API for it plz? :) | 03:13 |
| bkero | Well, if it were restful you could just write some simple python objects around it, and all would be right in the universe. | 03:13 |
| kanzure | right | 03:13 |
| kanzure | but since this isn't the case | 03:14 |
| maradydd | bkero: :( that's like making a python api for amazon :( | 03:14 |
| maradydd | i mean yes someone did that but still | 03:14 |
| kanzure | gah stop being interesting >:( | 03:14 |
| kanzure | some of us have to pretend to sleep or something | 03:14 |
| maradydd | physical objects are still very much in the proprietary inventory system world | 03:14 |
| kanzure | maradydd: while it would be nice to have accesss to those databases, | 03:14 |
| kanzure | I also want my own inventory system | 03:14 |
| kanzure | this is what we'll be implementing at HQ | 03:14 |
| maradydd | well, yeah | 03:14 |
| maradydd | so do i | 03:15 |
| maradydd | i have too much shit :P | 03:15 |
| kanzure | er I guess you don't know about HQ | 03:15 |
| * maradydd priced out rfid bookplates not long ago | 03:15 | |
| kanzure | but anyway, we're getting an HQ apparently | 03:15 |
| kanzure | yeah rfid would be a nice way to do it | 03:15 |
| kanzure | another way would be the OCR barcode scanner method | 03:15 |
| maradydd | for the low low price of around 5 grand i can rfid bookplate tag all my books | 03:15 |
| genehacker_dark | HQ? | 03:15 |
| kanzure | and just print out barcodes to throw at everything | 03:15 |
| kanzure | genehacker_dark: yes | 03:15 |
| kanzure | genehacker_dark: a warehouse up in LA | 03:15 |
| genehacker_dark | you mean that warehouse? | 03:15 |
| genehacker_dark | IN LA? | 03:15 |
| kanzure | yes | 03:15 |
| maradydd | mm true 2d barcodes probably easier | 03:15 |
| genehacker_dark | you are going to live in LA? | 03:15 |
| kanzure | maradydd: aren't rfid chips supposed to cost only pennies? | 03:16 |
| genehacker_dark | what about AR codes? | 03:16 |
| genehacker_dark | those tell orientation | 03:16 |
| maradydd | kanzure: yeah about 50 of them | 03:16 |
| bkero | Just use QR codes | 03:16 |
| maradydd | between us, len and i probably have like 10k books | 03:16 |
| kanzure | :) | 03:16 |
| genehacker_dark | kanzure are you moving to LA? | 03:16 |
| kanzure | genehacker_dark: probably | 03:16 |
| genehacker_dark | damn | 03:16 |
| maradydd | the only prob w/qr codes is that i can't ping for them | 03:16 |
| genehacker_dark | I'm stuck here | 03:16 |
| splicer | why keep books in the first place? | 03:17 |
| kanzure | because we are packrats | 03:17 |
| maradydd | with this many books, the "where is foo" problem becomes enormous | 03:17 |
| maradydd | splicer: what kanzure said, also marginalia | 03:17 |
| kanzure | "the fear of throwing things away" | 03:17 |
| splicer | so scan it | 03:17 |
| genehacker_dark | books have radiation shielding capabilities | 03:17 |
| kanzure | splicer: do you know how long it takes to scan 10,000 books? | 03:17 |
| genehacker_dark | books store information | 03:17 |
| kanzure | what the fuck is wrong with you :p | 03:17 |
| splicer | I know how long it takes to move them around | 03:18 |
| splicer | and how much they weigh | 03:18 |
| maradydd | i'll, uh, get right on that | 03:18 |
| kanzure | haha | 03:18 |
| kanzure | maradydd: faster! | 03:18 |
| QuantumG | no, how long does it take to scan 10,000 books? | 03:18 |
| kanzure | faster! do more work! | 03:18 |
| maradydd | QuantumG: ask google | 03:18 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: manually? a long time | 03:18 |
| QuantumG | I'm asking you :) | 03:18 |
| kanzure | if anyone has a book scanner device though, I'd like to use it. | 03:18 |
| splicer | pay the orphans | 03:18 |
| kanzure | manually I was averaging at 2 minutes per page | 03:18 |
| maradydd | kanzure: my friend abe is building one | 03:18 |
| genehacker_dark | how the heck did you get HQ and what's becoming of the Austin hackerspace? | 03:18 |
| maradydd | with some kind of page turny thing | 03:18 |
| kanzure | genehacker_dark: a story for another time | 03:19 |
| genehacker_dark | ok | 03:19 |
| kanzure | maradydd: kickass. schematics? | 03:19 |
| kanzure | wait, no | 03:19 |
| kanzure | stop being interesting | 03:19 |
| genehacker_dark | a robot | 03:19 |
| * kanzure goes for reals | 03:19 | |
| splicer | ...or you could copy 100' books from me or some kid in a few days, for 500$ | 03:20 |
| maradydd | splicer: i can copy 100+ books from bittorrent for free | 03:20 |
| splicer | that's the point | 03:20 |
| maradydd | but anyway, len gets headaches reading screens | 03:20 |
| genehacker_dark | do you have THE GOLDEN BOOK OF CHEMISTRY EXPERIMENTS? | 03:20 |
| maradydd | and besides someday i'm gonna build a huge library with ladders on wheels | 03:20 |
| maradydd | genehacker_dark: as a pdf | 03:20 |
| splicer | probably somewhere if it's been out | 03:21 |
| genehacker_dark | ladders and wheels pah, why not robots and rails? | 03:21 |
| maradydd | it can be a robotic ladder | 03:21 |
| maradydd | i just want to be able to ride it around the room | 03:21 |
| splicer | very 1800 | 03:21 |
| genehacker_dark | good point | 03:21 |
| splicer | "I want to feel and smell the books" | 03:21 |
| genehacker_dark | I NEED MORE POWER | 03:22 |
| genehacker_dark | to run this gear generator | 03:22 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r03a0bd809ab6 /pymates/pymates.py: notes to get it working later | 03:22 |
| maradydd | kanzure: you don't look very asleep | 03:23 |
| kanzure | sshh | 03:23 |
| kanzure | ljflkfajf;ka | 03:23 |
| genehacker_dark | kanzure haven't you sleep coded stuff before? | 03:23 |
| kanzure | yeah :/ | 03:24 |
| kanzure | during my first semester of uni, it was particularly bad | 03:24 |
| genehacker_dark | how is that possible? | 03:24 |
| kanzure | because I would fall asleep at the terminal at the lab | 03:24 |
| kanzure | but I would be writing out perl | 03:24 |
| kanzure | and so it was just fucking terrible code | 03:24 |
| kanzure | because I couldn't keep a line of thought straight for more than a few seconds | 03:24 |
| maradydd | my job today is to make sense of sleepcoded haskell | 03:24 |
| genehacker_dark | hey how much memory does that box of yours have? | 03:24 |
| kanzure | and I was doing some nasty 20-something table queries in MySQL | 03:24 |
| genehacker_dark | could you run matlab on it? | 03:24 |
| maradydd | actually i think it might be drunk sleepcoded haskell at that | 03:24 |
| kanzure | I'm surprised drunk+haskell works together. | 03:25 |
| kanzure | I'm surprised haskell works at all. | 03:25 |
| maradydd | chris++ is inhuman | 03:25 |
| kanzure | transhuman? | 03:25 |
| splicer | (hehe) | 03:25 |
| maradydd | idk, man, he's a machine | 03:25 |
| maradydd | he sysadmins at google for 10+ hours a day, comes home, starts drinking, starts coding | 03:26 |
| genehacker_dark | he probably takes anti-sleep meds | 03:26 |
| kanzure | meh | 03:26 |
| maradydd | nah he's canadian | 03:26 |
| maradydd | they have fucked up circadian cycles | 03:26 |
| genehacker_dark | indeed | 03:26 |
| genehacker_dark | or maybe he's from greenland | 03:27 |
| genehacker_dark | I hear they're like that too | 03:27 |
| maradydd | i'm gonna be useless come wintertime | 03:27 |
| maradydd | it's gonna get dark at like 4 in the afternoon and imma be like "right, time to sleep!" | 03:27 |
| genehacker_dark | the sun has no dominion over me | 03:27 |
| splicer | you're experienced snow before? | 03:27 |
| * maradydd lived in iowa for 5 years | 03:28 | |
| maradydd | so, yes | 03:28 |
| maradydd | we had snow here in jan and early feb | 03:28 |
| maradydd | stayed on the ground for a few days even | 03:28 |
| splicer | i knew this girl whos mother was swedish and her father greek.... so she grew up in greece | 03:28 |
| bkero | <3 greece | 03:29 |
| splicer | ... and she spoke perfect swedish... only in wintertime if you walked with her.. she fell over all the time | 03:29 |
| maradydd | obtw splicer there's a small chance i might be in stockholm in august | 03:29 |
| splicer | cool | 03:29 |
| splicer | I'm not there.. i'm about 10hrs north | 03:29 |
| splicer | stockholm is nice... especially in the summer | 03:30 |
| splicer | it's water | 03:31 |
| maradydd | o right, sweden's like california, tall | 03:31 |
| splicer | yeah, probably more sparsely populated though | 03:32 |
| splicer | what would you be doing in stockholm? | 03:32 |
| maradydd | visiting my friends mikael and susanne | 03:33 |
| splicer | ...those are swedish names | 03:33 |
| maradydd | vejdemo-johansson | 03:33 |
| splicer | with friends is the absolutely best way to see it | 03:34 |
| maradydd | r0x0r | 03:34 |
| maradydd | well, i hope it happens | 03:34 |
| splicer | you'll like it a lot I think | 03:34 |
| genehacker_dark | odd | 03:36 |
| genehacker_dark | a program says that every iteration of a file name already exiost | 03:36 |
| genehacker_dark | matlab died | 03:37 |
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| maradydd | heh. writing noop is totally the protocol implementor's hello world | 04:33 |
| maradydd | now on to the real work -_- | 04:34 |
| genehacker_dark | hey could somebody write me a format for formating stuff | 04:52 |
| genehacker_dark | IE a format for writting programs that take in parameters and output parts | 04:53 |
| genehacker_dark | say part is a rolamite bearing | 04:53 |
| genehacker_dark | I write code that gives parameters and generates a rolamite bearing from those parameters | 04:54 |
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| maradydd | has anyone made nanoscale LEDs? | 07:27 |
| genehacker_dark | quantum wells? | 07:42 |
| genehacker_dark | I think so | 07:42 |
| genehacker_dark | why? | 07:42 |
| genehacker_dark | do you want to make a phased array that works in the visible spectrum? | 07:43 |
| genehacker_dark | for making THE ULTIMATE VIEWING EXPERIENCE? | 07:43 |
| genehacker_dark | http://paulgazis.com/Humor/Vikings.htm | 07:46 |
| genehacker_dark | lol | 07:46 |
| maradydd | shit yo | 07:53 |
| maradydd | viral assembly of quantum dots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot#Viral_assembly | 07:54 |
| genehacker_dark | speaking of practical biology | 07:54 |
| genehacker_dark | google cuttlefish superconductor | 07:55 |
| maradydd | wtf | 07:55 |
| genehacker_dark | you can make a lightweight superconductor with a critical current that is quite high | 07:55 |
| genehacker_dark | from cuttlebone treated with yttrium or something like that | 07:56 |
| maradydd | omg hilarious | 07:56 |
| genehacker_dark | because cuttlebone is a bit more structured than sintered powder | 07:56 |
| genehacker_dark | hilarious? | 07:57 |
| maradydd | lololol | 07:57 |
| maradydd | i love it when shit like that happens | 07:57 |
| maradydd | so now the question is | 07:57 |
| maradydd | can we do something like laser sinter powder to make a cuttlebone analogue | 07:57 |
| genehacker_dark | don't think so | 07:57 |
| genehacker_dark | cuttle bone is like crystalline | 07:58 |
| maradydd | me and my friend were trying to figure out if we could sinter powdercoating material with a laser from a cd-rom drive | 07:58 |
| genehacker_dark | sintering is ugh | 07:58 |
| genehacker_dark | sintering is take some powder heat it up | 07:58 |
| maradydd | yeah i guess there's the oxidation problem | 07:58 |
| genehacker_dark | powder isn't a form that metal likes to be in | 07:58 |
| genehacker_dark | especially when metal gets hot | 07:58 |
| maradydd | yeah yeah but seriously, given time, we could be doing this with 325nm lasers | 07:58 |
| maradydd | and tiny things cool fast | 07:59 |
| genehacker_dark | so metal or whatever joins with other grains around it to reduce surface area | 07:59 |
| maradydd | right | 07:59 |
| genehacker_dark | but DIY SLS would be cool | 07:59 |
| genehacker_dark | the machines at my uni cost $25 per inch | 08:00 |
| maradydd | they're gonna be workin on it in houston | 08:00 |
| maradydd | maybe here in brussels too | 08:00 |
| genehacker_dark | huh? | 08:00 |
| genehacker_dark | working on what? | 08:00 |
| maradydd | the DIY SLS machine | 08:01 |
| genehacker_dark | but the thing about cuttle bone is it's something like a single crystal that has a good structure or something like that | 08:01 |
| genehacker_dark | if we could grow cuttle bone in different shapes it might be useful | 08:02 |
| genehacker_dark | oh | 08:02 |
| genehacker_dark | cool | 08:02 |
| genehacker_dark | SLS was invented not to far from where I am | 08:02 |
| maradydd | yeah so my question is can we laser sinter a structure that provides the same or similar support that the cuttlebone structure provides, for the yttrium metal stuff | 08:02 |
| genehacker_dark | probably not | 08:02 |
| maradydd | and then cut that into different shapes | 08:02 |
| fenn | i witnessed the "pink string incident" and i must say katsmeow-afk took it completely out of proportion | 08:02 |
| genehacker_dark | ??? | 08:03 |
| maradydd | *shrug* with 325nm precision i think you could get pretty fuckin close | 08:03 |
| fenn | commentary on something hours ago | 08:03 |
| genehacker_dark | cuttle bone is like near molecularly precise | 08:03 |
| genehacker_dark | I think | 08:03 |
| maradydd | that's fine, make an approximation | 08:04 |
| genehacker_dark | 325 nm precision? | 08:04 |
| maradydd | think like a hacker dude | 08:04 |
| genehacker_dark | plus how do you sinter calcium carbonate? | 08:04 |
| maradydd | how wide are the gaps | 08:04 |
| maradydd | you don't need calcium carbonate if you can find something with similar thermal and adherent properties | 08:04 |
| maradydd | and there are a LOT of plastics out there | 08:04 |
| genehacker_dark | oh I was thinking about making superconductors | 08:05 |
| maradydd | so am i | 08:05 |
| maradydd | i read the article | 08:05 |
| maradydd | the cuttlebone provides a *structure* | 08:06 |
| genehacker_dark | cuttle bone is calcium carbonate | 08:06 |
| maradydd | they have to dope first and then heat it up to melt the metal all through it | 08:06 |
| maradydd | right | 08:06 |
| maradydd | a nonconductor | 08:06 |
| genehacker_dark | superconducter is made from calcium carbon, yttrium, and other stuff | 08:06 |
| maradydd | so, sinter something out of plastic, *another nonconductor*, that can take 900 degrees of heat so that they can melt the yttrium barium copper oxide precursors and make the reaction happen | 08:07 |
| maradydd | you have conductors, nonconductors, and semiconductors. calcium carbonate is a nonconductor. so is plastic. they are electrically equivalent. | 08:08 |
| maradydd | i suppose if it's thin enough plastic can be a dielectric, but you could melt it out with a solvent and then repack with ceramic. i don't know, i'm not a materials scientist. *throws up hands* | 08:08 |
| genehacker_dark | calcium carbonate might provide a crystal structure for the YBCuO to nucleate on | 08:09 |
| maradydd | well, if that's the case, then i guess my idea's fucked :P | 08:10 |
| maradydd | but that's the kind of thing the authors of the paper should be able to answer, neh? | 08:10 |
| maradydd | c'mon man | 08:10 |
| maradydd | think like it's the 18th century | 08:10 |
| genehacker_dark | well I think I need to read the paper | 08:10 |
| genehacker_dark | in that case | 08:10 |
| maradydd | somebody just made something cool | 08:10 |
| maradydd | figure out how to cast a mold of it and make more of them! | 08:10 |
| maradydd | sheesh | 08:10 |
| genehacker_dark | cuttlefish grow cuttlebone | 08:10 |
| maradydd | i mean, fuck, for that matter, grow cuttlebone in a vat if you absolutely must have only the finest of cuttlebone | 08:11 |
| genehacker_dark | yeah that's what I'm hitting at | 08:11 |
| maradydd | but there are going to be applications for varying grades of superconductor | 08:11 |
| maradydd | so if you can get close enough with an alternate route and the alternate route turns out to be cheaper, do that | 08:11 |
| maradydd | *shrug* we shall see | 08:12 |
| maradydd | i just like seeing potential applications of things that people i know are working on | 08:12 |
| genehacker_dark | the point with the cuttlebone is that you might be able to useful things with biology | 08:12 |
| maradydd | i thought barium was Ba | 08:12 |
| maradydd | B is boron | 08:12 |
| genehacker_dark | YBCO is an lazy abbrevaition people use | 08:13 |
| maradydd | ah | 08:13 |
| maradydd | the Cu threw me | 08:13 |
| genehacker_dark | ok | 08:13 |
| genehacker_dark | gonna see if I can't get this paper | 08:13 |
| genehacker_dark | paper GET | 08:15 |
| maradydd | schweet, send it to me? | 08:16 |
| genehacker_dark | sure | 08:17 |
| genehacker_dark | it doesn't have nasty "I DOWNLOADED THIS, I'M EVIL" tags | 08:18 |
| genehacker_dark | where to? | 08:18 |
| genehacker_dark | might work | 08:18 |
| genehacker_dark | if the plastic doesn't melt at 900 C | 08:18 |
| genehacker_dark | doesn't really say much about the crystal structure helping | 08:20 |
| genehacker_dark | http://superconductors.org/News.htm | 08:21 |
| genehacker_dark | combine it with this guys stuff and maybe room temperature superconductors are possible | 08:22 |
| genehacker_dark | all those high temperature superconductors he makes are minority phases | 08:22 |
| genehacker_dark | meaning a tiny grain superconducts at high temperatures but not the whole thing | 08:22 |
| genehacker_dark | yup plastic idea might just work | 08:24 |
| genehacker_dark | wait do I transfer this to you via IRC? | 08:25 |
| fenn | genehacker_dark: http://fennetic.net/irc/The_Golden_Book_of_Chemistry_Experiments_-_R._Brent_WW.pdf | 08:31 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@dsl-149-118-111.hive.is] has joined #hplusroadmap | 08:32 | |
| fenn | good morning my atlantean friend | 08:34 |
| fenn | how are the whales and porpoises | 08:34 |
| genehacker_dark | damn the sun | 08:34 |
| genehacker_dark | fine if you ask me | 08:35 |
| Smari | morning my texan buddy. | 08:35 |
| fenn | genehacker_dark: you're taking this goth thing way too seriously | 08:35 |
| genehacker_dark | no I'm on winblows | 08:35 |
| genehacker_dark | that's why I'm dark | 08:35 |
| fenn | self-induced suffering, sounds goth to me | 08:36 |
| genehacker_dark | besides I don't live in atlantis, I live in Rapture | 08:36 |
| -!- genehacker_dark is now known as genehacker_vista | 08:36 | |
| Smari | the whales and porpoises are sunbathing on the towels, the puffins are happily splashing in the wave pools, the kittens are on lifeguard duty. | 08:36 |
| Smari | genehacker_vista, he meant me. :P | 08:36 |
| genehacker_vista | ah | 08:37 |
| genehacker_vista | oops | 08:37 |
| genehacker_vista | kanzure awake? | 08:37 |
| fenn | no | 08:37 |
| genehacker_vista | fenn mind explaining how you got a HQ in LA? | 08:37 |
| Smari | I live fairly close to Atlantis. It's about three hours from here by boat. | 08:37 |
| Smari | I'm actually going there later. | 08:37 |
| fenn | genehacker_vista: honestly i dont understand it myself | 08:37 |
| fenn | genehacker_vista: anyway it's not a done deal; we still have to rationalize the madness | 08:38 |
| genehacker_vista | who's warehouse | 08:38 |
| fenn | the warehouse doesn't exist/hasnt been selected i guess | 08:38 |
| genehacker_vista | who's the backer to you hackers | 08:38 |
| fenn | humanity+ | 08:39 |
| genehacker_vista | who exactly? | 08:39 |
| genehacker_vista | the Marduk institute? | 08:39 |
| fenn | huh? | 08:39 |
| fenn | humanityplus.org/ | 08:39 |
| genehacker_vista | oh them | 08:39 |
| genehacker_vista | one person or a bunch of people | 08:40 |
| fenn | mostly alex lightman | 08:40 |
| Smari | It's 13:37! | 08:40 |
| Smari | I'm so late.... | 08:41 |
| genehacker_vista | by funding, how much? | 08:42 |
| fenn | no idea | 08:42 |
| genehacker_vista | should I consider going down there? | 08:42 |
| fenn | seriously i dont know very much | 08:42 |
| genehacker_vista | I'd really like to see instructions on how to make a cheap but capable DNA synthesizer | 08:43 |
| fenn | how about the capillary tube + UV led | 08:44 |
| genehacker_vista | ugh | 08:45 |
| genehacker_vista | too slow | 08:45 |
| fenn | picky picky | 08:45 |
| genehacker_vista | microscope + DLP projector+ plumbing | 08:45 |
| genehacker_vista | is what I'm thinking | 08:45 |
| genehacker_vista | but we really need the chemicals first | 08:45 |
| genehacker_vista | stuck on how to get the nucleotidase | 08:46 |
| fenn | unwilling to learn organic chemistry | 08:46 |
| genehacker_vista | I guess it might be possible to use it in it's impure form | 08:46 |
| fenn | no, impure chemicals would just give you crap sequences | 08:46 |
| genehacker_vista | fenn I need to digest DNA to make nucleosides | 08:47 |
| genehacker_vista | then I need to seperate out these nucleosides and put protecting groups on them | 08:48 |
| genehacker_vista | I have high hopes for this protein purifier kanzure's been talking about | 08:50 |
| fenn | i dont | 08:50 |
| genehacker_vista | if we could only get the MPTS | 08:50 |
| fenn | if only.. you could get photolabile protected nucleotides | 08:51 |
| genehacker_vista | nucleosides | 08:52 |
| genehacker_vista | kanzure found how to make em | 08:52 |
| genehacker_vista | protecting group is medium modo | 08:52 |
| genehacker_vista | nucleoside might be hard modo | 08:52 |
| fenn | can't you just buy nucleotides? | 08:54 |
| genehacker_vista | whole process might end up being lunatic mode though | 08:54 |
| genehacker_vista | buy? what is buy? | 08:54 |
| fenn | how are you going to do PCR? | 08:54 |
| fenn | you need NTP's | 08:55 |
| genehacker_vista | ??? | 08:55 |
| fenn | going to make those too? | 08:55 |
| genehacker_vista | what are those? | 08:55 |
| fenn | oh come on | 08:55 |
| genehacker_vista | ethidium bromide? | 08:55 |
| fenn | nucleotide triphosphate | 08:55 |
| genehacker_vista | oh | 08:55 |
| genehacker_vista | I hope too | 08:56 |
| maradydd | from salmon sperm? | 08:56 |
| maradydd | that's how they do it in the industry | 08:56 |
| fenn | you might want to learn some basic biology techniques while you're learning chemistry | 08:56 |
| genehacker_vista | oh yes the nucleosides? | 08:56 |
| genehacker_vista | they said salmon | 08:57 |
| fenn | maradydd: please don't give him any more ideas | 08:57 |
| maradydd | fenn: sry :( | 08:57 |
| maradydd | i just thought it might be like uncle fester you know? | 08:57 |
| genehacker_vista | I took an aquaculture class though | 08:57 |
| maradydd | "start with a field of ergot" | 08:57 |
| fenn | gene you saw the strawberry dna extraction right? | 08:57 |
| genehacker_vista | salmon shouldn't be too hard to grow | 08:57 |
| fenn | strawberries are easier to grow | 08:57 |
| genehacker_vista | wait a second | 08:58 |
| genehacker_vista | FENN THAT'S WHY I NEED FUCKING NUCLEOTIDASE | 08:59 |
| maradydd | aldrich sells it | 08:59 |
| genehacker_vista | I want to make it | 08:59 |
| fenn | mung beans have it.. well, something like it | 08:59 |
| genehacker_vista | it's in chicken muscle | 09:00 |
| genehacker_vista | though are strawberries really a good DNA source | 09:00 |
| maradydd | they're octoploid | 09:00 |
| genehacker_vista | why not algae? | 09:00 |
| fenn | because strawberries are bite-sized | 09:00 |
| genehacker_vista | anyhow how do they make nucleoside triphosphate from nucleosides? | 09:01 |
| maradydd | *shrug* dunno how much dna you extract from a gram of algae vs a gram of strawberries | 09:01 |
| fenn | i'd say "and delicious" but after many years i realized i hate strawberries | 09:01 |
| maradydd | fenn: in any case easy to buy in the grocery store | 09:01 |
| genehacker_vista | algae is easy to grow | 09:01 |
| maradydd | way easier than whacking off a salmon | 09:01 |
| fenn | but not nearly as entertaining | 09:01 |
| maradydd | heh | 09:02 |
| genehacker_vista | so how is NTP made? | 09:02 |
| maradydd | at idt, the bioinformatics and backend software dev groups got moved to a new building across from one of the university labs | 09:02 |
| maradydd | the National Advanced Driving Simulator | 09:02 |
| genehacker_vista | heh | 09:03 |
| maradydd | for like the first two weeks all the guys were giggling about how they could look at the window and see NADS | 09:03 |
| genehacker_vista | drive through DNA sequences? | 09:03 |
| maradydd | hm. eventually i'm going to have to break down and find access to a mass spec or nmr machine | 09:04 |
| genehacker_vista | why? | 09:05 |
| maradydd | figuring out the efficiency of various diy DNA purification methods | 09:05 |
| genehacker_vista | ahh | 09:05 |
| genehacker_vista | umm... | 09:05 |
| maradydd | comparing cost efficiency and shit like that | 09:06 |
| maradydd | *shrug* i'll just have to find someone in chemistry, no big | 09:06 |
| genehacker_vista | can't you do that with gel electrophoresis | 09:06 |
| maradydd | that's one way, yes | 09:06 |
| genehacker_vista | I mean DNA is like a big molecule and all | 09:06 |
| maradydd | mass spec lets you measure how well it worked | 09:06 |
| fenn | assuming you're not a total wingnut and can buy samples of pure nucleotides, you could compare with chromatography and absorption spectrometry, which are a bit easier to build at home | 09:06 |
| maradydd | fenn: idt has a production facility here | 09:07 |
| fenn | i always wanted to build a mass spec. though | 09:07 |
| maradydd | i haven't worked for them in years but if i walk in the guy who runs the place will recognise me | 09:07 |
| maradydd | we worked together in iowa | 09:07 |
| maradydd | i had a mohawk back then. now my hair's purple. he'll remember me. | 09:07 |
| fenn | that means you have to go to iowa to access some piece of lab equipment? | 09:07 |
| maradydd | no, it means i have to walk a few kilometers south to idt-europe | 09:08 |
| fenn | or is it like a 'oh while i'm here i should measure this' | 09:08 |
| fenn | ok | 09:08 |
| genehacker_vista | fenn theres is a reason I don't want to rely on sigma aldrich | 09:08 |
| maradydd | so if i need some nucleotides, i can just ask | 09:08 |
| maradydd | maybe use them to calibrate a home built absorption spectrometer | 09:08 |
| genehacker_vista | the reason is that some people might want to regulate things | 09:08 |
| maradydd | i've looked at those too | 09:08 |
| genehacker_vista | to make things harder for us | 09:08 |
| fenn | genehacker_vista: how about concentrating on the problems that actually exist instead of the problems that might exist | 09:08 |
| maradydd | yup. right now, there are a lot of tools that people are going to need in order to be able to reliably do their own synth | 09:09 |
| fenn | for example: you still dont have chemicals | 09:09 |
| genehacker_vista | name a problem that exists | 09:09 |
| genehacker_vista | I'm bored right now | 09:09 |
| fenn | why are you awake? | 09:09 |
| maradydd | people will need measuring equipment to measure the purity of the reagents they have made. | 09:09 |
| maradydd | since you don't want to rely on aldrich for nucleotides, you want to make them yourself -- you're going to have to QA them | 09:10 |
| fenn | maradydd: yeah i think diybio is really more about diy instrumentation at this point | 09:10 |
| maradydd | so, QA equip is spensive. let's make cheaper QA gear. | 09:10 |
| maradydd | fenn: yeah | 09:10 |
| genehacker_vista | because my internal clock doesn't use a quartz crystal | 09:10 |
| maradydd | 's what i'm workin on with the diy thermocycler | 09:10 |
| genehacker_vista | did you see the light bulb thermocycler? | 09:11 |
| maradydd | well, more properly, the generic embedded language framework for 8-bit subset-of-HTTP servers | 09:11 |
| fenn | have you seen the idaho systems thermocycler? | 09:11 |
| maradydd | that will drive the thermocycler over the network | 09:11 |
| maradydd | i saw the one on instructables that was like $350 in parts | 09:11 |
| fenn | er, idaho technology | 09:11 |
| genehacker_vista | the lightbulb one was $25 | 09:11 |
| fenn | the lightbulb one needs a fan | 09:11 |
| maradydd | the one on ibles is pimp as shit | 09:11 |
| maradydd | but requires machine tools | 09:12 |
| maradydd | that i don't know how to use :( | 09:12 |
| genehacker_vista | I have machine tools | 09:12 |
| maradydd | you have to mill an aluminum head so that you can put the heating element in the centre, six holes around that for tubes and one hole for a temp sensor | 09:12 |
| genehacker_vista | err I'm a profession machinist | 09:12 |
| fenn | the way the idaho tech thermocycler works is there's a light bulb that turns on and off, and a fan. you put the pcr mix in glass capillary tubes because they heat up and cool down fast. there's a temperature sensor in with the tubes that has the same thermal characteristics | 09:12 |
| genehacker_vista | I can do that | 09:12 |
| genehacker_vista | but others can't | 09:13 |
| genehacker_vista | which is bad | 09:13 |
| maradydd | fenn: hah, that sounds pretty damn simple. | 09:13 |
| genehacker_vista | easybake PCR machine | 09:13 |
| fenn | genehacker_vista: how is your access to machine tools less of a liability than your access to sigma aldrich? | 09:13 |
| * maradydd ponders what you could do with incandescent lightbulbs and PWM | 09:13 | |
| fenn | i think they just used a relay | 09:13 |
| genehacker_vista | machine tools are free | 09:13 |
| fenn | it would turn on and off about every five seconds or so | 09:13 |
| genehacker_vista | aluminum is free | 09:13 |
| maradydd | oh, wow | 09:14 |
| maradydd | ok, slower than i thought :) | 09:14 |
| genehacker_vista | scrap that is | 09:14 |
| maradydd | that's ... pretty damn simple | 09:14 |
| fenn | maradydd: just has to be under the thermal time constant | 09:14 |
| genehacker_vista | yeah | 09:14 |
| maradydd | ok, math for me to learn, thx | 09:14 |
| fenn | it's just like electronics | 09:14 |
| * maradydd is pretty bad at anything analog :-/ | 09:14 | |
| genehacker_vista | I like mechanical analog computers | 09:15 |
| genehacker_vista | they are functions | 09:15 |
| maradydd | but, i'll plow through it | 09:15 |
| maradydd | but, in any case, i'm sure the idaho tech hardware can work with my firmware, given the right glue | 09:16 |
| * maradydd having said that now goes off to look for it :P | 09:16 | |
| genehacker_vista | http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113449444/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 | 09:19 |
| maradydd | oh halogen okay | 09:19 |
| genehacker_vista | fenn is there another light bulb thermocycler than thisone? | 09:19 |
| fenn | are you talking about the "$25 thermocycler"? | 09:20 |
| fenn | stainless plant pot with holes drilled in it | 09:20 |
| genehacker_vista | http://digitalcommons.bryant.edu/sci_jou/6/ | 09:21 |
| genehacker_vista | jup | 09:21 |
| fenn | i gotta say i was less than impressed with their technical execution | 09:22 |
| genehacker_vista | I'm sure you've heard of DNA world fenn? | 09:22 |
| fenn | no | 09:22 |
| genehacker_vista | RNA world | 09:24 |
| fenn | the abiogenesis theory? | 09:24 |
| genehacker_vista | where volcanoes act as thermocyclers | 09:24 |
| fenn | something like that | 09:24 |
| genehacker_vista | if a thermocycler can spontaneously occur in nature it shouldn't be rocket science to make it work | 09:24 |
| genehacker_vista | so the plant pot approach should work | 09:24 |
| fenn | well, the water bath approach works, the point is to make a reliable convenient quick cheap piece of lab equipment | 09:24 |
| genehacker_vista | ERROR GRAMMAR CORE MALFUNCTION, PROCEEDING WITH SYSTEM REBOOT | 09:24 |
| maradydd | yea fenn i think the glass capillary thing is a good idea | 09:24 |
| maradydd | those are pretty easy to get iirc | 09:24 |
| maradydd | med supplies | 09:24 |
| genehacker_vista | for dna synth? | 09:24 |
| genehacker_vista | bah | 09:24 |
| genehacker_vista | it might take forever to synthesize anything fun! | 09:24 |
| fenn | maradydd: i think it would work with regular mini thin wall microcentrifuge tubes too | 09:25 |
| maradydd | fenn: right, they say it just takes longer | 09:25 |
| genehacker_vista | where fun ~>600,000 bp | 09:25 |
| genehacker_vista | like months | 09:25 |
| maradydd | i'll see about setting something up when i get my gear back, i have a few bajillion of those tubes | 09:25 |
| genehacker_vista | or I need to do the calculations | 09:25 |
| maradydd | the nice thing about the machined aluminum head was the precision | 09:26 |
| genehacker_vista | ??? | 09:26 |
| genehacker_vista | ugh I need sl | 09:26 |
| maradydd | all the tube wells were equidistant from the heating element, as was the temp sensor | 09:26 |
| * maradydd does some parts shopping | 09:27 | |
| maradydd | fenn: http://www.instructables.com/id/Coffee-Cup-PCR-Thermocycler-costing-under-350/ has pics and bom | 09:28 |
| fenn | i'd be hard pressed to spend $350 making a thermocycler | 09:29 |
| kanzure | you get nucleotidase from chicken gizzard | 09:31 |
| maradydd | im trying to figure out what's so expensive about it | 09:31 |
| maradydd | 6061 Aluminum Rod 1.5" round stock about 5" in length | 09:31 |
| maradydd | Cartridge heater 1" length, 1/4" diam 80W | 09:31 |
| maradydd | Temperature controller Omega.com CN8282-R1R2C2 | 09:31 |
| maradydd | and a 40mm cooling fan | 09:31 |
| kanzure | how could you not know what ddNTPs are, genehacker_vista? | 09:32 |
| genehacker_vista | I forgot | 09:33 |
| genehacker_vista | how does seperate nucleotidase from chicken gizzard | 09:33 |
| fenn | instructable brought to you by "center for parabiotics research" | 09:33 |
| genehacker_vista | how do you make ddNTPs | 09:33 |
| fenn | organic synthesis techniques is a sure bet | 09:34 |
| genehacker_vista | how? | 09:34 |
| kanzure | idt-europe is not diy and you're losing points, maradydd | 09:34 |
| genehacker_vista | however kanzure she can do nmr for us | 09:34 |
| genehacker_vista | think of it as making ballistic tables for us | 09:35 |
| maradydd | kanzure: if i'm using them to calibrate a diy spectrometer i don't care where they come from as long as their purity is guaranteed | 09:35 |
| maradydd | chicken and egg problem solved | 09:35 |
| genehacker_vista | you know I've heard they use water or tonic water to calibrate things like taht | 09:36 |
| kanzure | heh coffee cop PCR thermocycler :) | 09:36 |
| genehacker_vista | our spectrophotometer calibrates itself with deionized water | 09:36 |
| kanzure | genehacker_vista: we already have someone who can do NMR for us. | 09:37 |
| genehacker_vista | looks expensive | 09:37 |
| genehacker_vista | who? | 09:37 |
| kanzure | some guy from Texas State | 09:37 |
| fenn | dan millican or one of the fifty labs you have access to on campus | 09:37 |
| genehacker_vista | and how'd you get H+ to fund you | 09:37 |
| kanzure | mind control | 09:37 |
| genehacker_vista | oh | 09:37 |
| genehacker_vista | significant amounts? | 09:38 |
| genehacker_vista | significant enough to drop out? | 09:38 |
| maradydd | ok, i can get an 80W cartridge heater for around 20 euros so that's not the big expense | 09:39 |
| genehacker_vista | 80 watts? | 09:40 |
| fenn | maradydd: i'm pretty sure it's the temperature controller.. industrial automation stuff always costs about 200x what it ought to | 09:40 |
| kanzure | humanityplus is a front for the data integration entity | 09:40 |
| genehacker_vista | hahahahahahahahaha | 09:40 |
| * maradydd is looking that up now | 09:40 | |
| maradydd | eeepc is slow :( | 09:40 |
| genehacker_vista | don't ever watch season two | 09:40 |
| genehacker_vista | it's from an anime | 09:41 |
| genehacker_vista | it sucks | 09:41 |
| genehacker_vista | they cut costs by repeating the same thing over and over for 5 episodes and counting | 09:41 |
| genehacker_vista | who specifically though? | 09:42 |
| fenn | paranoia agent got pretty funny in the middle with budget cuts/general slacking and hating their job as animators (and talking about it on the show) | 09:42 |
| maradydd | yeah $384 for the temp controller -_- | 09:43 |
| fenn | maradydd: so it actually costs negative $34? | 09:43 |
| fenn | i will have to pay people to take it away | 09:44 |
| maradydd | heh | 09:44 |
| maradydd | market values i guess | 09:44 |
| maradydd | ok fenn, so why does industrial automation stuff always cost about 200x what it should? | 09:44 |
| fenn | because guys in suits spending other peoples' money are the only ones who can afford that stuff | 09:45 |
| fenn | and they keep paying that much, so the people who make it dont bother selling it for less | 09:46 |
| fenn | or i could just wave my hands and say 'supply and demand' | 09:46 |
| maradydd | ok, sounds like a problem domain that wants open source | 09:47 |
| fenn | yes that's mostly why i'm into open hardware | 09:47 |
| maradydd | makes sense | 09:48 |
| fenn | it's the same deal with lab equipment | 09:48 |
| fenn | most lab equipment is a $2 microcontroller, a square of some exotic material, and some machined aluminum | 09:50 |
| fenn | (or at least it should be) | 09:51 |
| genehacker_vista | true true | 09:52 |
| maradydd | so is this temp controller microcontroller-driven? | 09:52 |
| genehacker_vista | or it's all stain less steel and needs to be held at high vacuum | 09:52 |
| fenn | "this"? | 09:52 |
| maradydd | the one linked from the instructable. | 09:52 |
| fenn | probably.. it's got numbers and is programmable right? | 09:53 |
| * maradydd downloads a product manual to get a better idea. | 09:53 | |
| genehacker_vista | good idea | 09:54 |
| genehacker_vista | those have helped me reverse engineer stuff | 09:54 |
| fenn | thermocouple, 5A relay, 10Hz sampling rate (really?) | 09:56 |
| fenn | all the rest is "shitty button interface" as far as i'm concerned | 09:56 |
| kanzure | list of german terrorists: | 09:56 |
| kanzure | http://eugen.leitl.org/list-of-terorists.pdf | 09:56 |
| genehacker_vista | ??? | 09:57 |
| * fenn pictures the guy from Die Hard | 09:57 | |
| genehacker_vista | pic unrelated? | 09:57 |
| maradydd | hah arduino kegerator temp controller http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1187673287 | 09:57 |
| genehacker_vista | heh | 09:57 |
| maradydd | first hit when i googled "arduino process controller" w/o quotes | 09:57 |
| genehacker_vista | oh joy firefox just died | 09:58 |
| kanzure | why are you on vista | 10:00 |
| genehacker_vista | because my cad program doesn't work in vista | 10:00 |
| kanzure | did you try wine? | 10:00 |
| genehacker_vista | I know it sucks | 10:00 |
| fenn | maradydd: why do people use peltiers for PCR thermocyclers? | 10:00 |
| kanzure | genehacker_vista: did you try wine? | 10:01 |
| genehacker_vista | can't get it to work with it | 10:01 |
| kanzure | what was wrong? | 10:01 |
| genehacker_vista | dunno | 10:01 |
| maradydd | fenn: digital control over pwm | 10:01 |
| fenn | but the aluminum block takes so long to warm up it barely matters | 10:01 |
| fenn | and besides you can do pwm with ceramic resistor heaters | 10:01 |
| genehacker_vista | oh wait it works | 10:02 |
| maradydd | yeah, the 20EUR thing i found | 10:02 |
| maradydd | cartridge heater | 10:02 |
| fenn | right | 10:02 |
| maradydd | i guess maybe because you can buy a peltier on ebay for cheap> | 10:02 |
| maradydd | ? | 10:02 |
| fenn | i imagine it has something to do with cooling down, but why not just a huge finned heatsink | 10:02 |
| maradydd | and it has a nice friendly molex connector on? | 10:02 |
| fenn | supposedly you can't use the cheap ebay peltiers because they'll crack from thermal stress | 10:03 |
| genehacker_vista | the cooling down part | 10:03 |
| fenn | (keggerator doesnt cycle so no thermal stress) | 10:03 |
| kanzure | keggerator sounds like a bad KDE app | 10:03 |
| maradydd | *snrk* | 10:03 |
| fenn | my keggerator is frozen! | 10:03 |
| maradydd | yeah i mean this dude is using a chest freezer | 10:04 |
| maradydd | no peltiers involved | 10:04 |
| genehacker_vista | a mechanical thermocycler? | 10:06 |
| maradydd | but anyway if a thermistor of the right type can be found then a different kind of heating element can be used | 10:06 |
| maradydd | the software ought in fact to be written so that any sort of heating element, and any sort of sensor, can be used | 10:06 |
| kanzure | a thermocycler wrapper | 10:07 |
| fenn | of course | 10:07 |
| genehacker_vista | digikey or jameco has thermistors | 10:07 |
| genehacker_vista | they're not expensive | 10:07 |
| maradydd | mmm, abstraction | 10:07 |
| genehacker_vista | I'm wearing one | 10:07 |
| kanzure | mmm, abstraction- it's what's for breakfast | 10:07 |
| fenn | people use thermocouples because they're more accurate? why can't you just compensate for the nonlinearity of a thermistor in software? | 10:08 |
| genehacker_vista | thermistors are nonlinear? | 10:08 |
| * maradydd thought thermocouples were pretty cheap | 10:08 | |
| genehacker_vista | wtf? | 10:08 |
| genehacker_vista | then how do digital thermometers work | 10:08 |
| fenn | TC's are cheap but you need a special chip to compensate for the cold side junction | 10:08 |
| fenn | or so they say | 10:08 |
| maradydd | but yes if someone wants to do the interpolation math for the thermistor that would be pretty sweet | 10:09 |
| fenn | i dont see why one couldnt use two TC's and do it in software, but maybe i just want to do everything in software | 10:09 |
| genehacker_vista | what do drugstore thermometers use? | 10:09 |
| maradydd | or at some point later on down the line show me how to do the interpolation math | 10:09 |
| fenn | y = mx + b | 10:09 |
| genehacker_vista | more specificaly what do digital watches do | 10:09 |
| fenn | do that between points in a lookup table | 10:09 |
| genehacker_vista | you call that nonlinear? | 10:09 |
| fenn | it's called "linear interpolation" | 10:10 |
| genehacker_vista | oops | 10:10 |
| genehacker_vista | sorry | 10:10 |
| maradydd | and they usually have a performance profile in the datasheet | 10:10 |
| fenn | though at 10 hz you could just as easily do some fancy polynomial maths | 10:10 |
| maradydd | so, an approximation can be interpolated | 10:11 |
| maradydd | right, ok, i know some code that uses this and why :P | 10:11 |
| maradydd | there's a linear interpolation library out there. c++ i think | 10:11 |
| fenn | hmm. | 10:11 |
| * maradydd has compiled c++ for ARM | 10:12 | |
| kanzure | big deal | 10:12 |
| fenn | does C++ even work on AVR's? | 10:12 |
| maradydd | i have noooooo idea | 10:12 |
| maradydd | but it will run on ARM | 10:12 |
| genehacker_vista | C++ on a chip? | 10:12 |
| maradydd | i don't just mean i built a cross-compiler, i mean i wrote code in c++ for the arm, cross-compiled it, and it works | 10:12 |
| genehacker_vista | how? | 10:12 |
| fenn | arm is harvard architecture | 10:12 |
| maradydd | arm-elf-g++ | 10:13 |
| kanzure | genehacker_vista: it's not "C++ on a chip" | 10:13 |
| fenn | uh. maybe that doesnt matter after all | 10:13 |
| kanzure | you compile it into a binary made for the ARM architecture | 10:13 |
| maradydd | yup | 10:13 |
| fenn | anyway including a library for linear interpolation sounds like overkill/bloat | 10:13 |
| kanzure | a dsp should be able to do that | 10:14 |
| maradydd | commodity hardware ftw | 10:14 |
| fenn | wait a sec, i thought this was supposed to cost $3 | 10:14 |
| kanzure | hm | 10:14 |
| maradydd | some avrs have dsps on don't they? | 10:15 |
| fenn | how did we get talking about dsp's? | 10:15 |
| kanzure | sorry | 10:15 |
| maradydd | fenn's telling me i need to quit whining and learn the math | 10:16 |
| maradydd | in a very zen sort of way | 10:16 |
| fenn | pretty much | 10:16 |
| maradydd | kanzure: listen to this man, he will teach you much | 10:17 |
| kanzure | I figured giving him a place to sleep would be a good start | 10:17 |
| maradydd | sensible enough | 10:17 |
| kanzure | maradydd: did you make me breakfast? | 10:18 |
| fenn | this is the general idea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Interpolation_example_linear.svg | 10:18 |
| maradydd | no, was i supposed to? | 10:18 |
| maradydd | fenn: ah right. ian goldberg's got a PIR scheme based on this | 10:19 |
| maradydd | which is where i know of the linear-interp lib that they used | 10:20 |
| fenn | private information retrieval? | 10:20 |
| maradydd | but if i were a Real Programmer i'd implement the only-as-precise-as-it-needs-to-be code rather than bloating the uC firmware with a library | 10:21 |
| maradydd | yes | 10:21 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: could you like me to your website, i'd like to see some of your projects like the pcb driller. i know it's removed, but i can at least grab the content before it's gone :) | 10:21 |
| ybit | bkero: what about you? do you have a personal website? i'd be interested in seeing how your welder was constructed | 10:21 |
| maradydd | esp. since there will already need to be room for uIP -_- | 10:22 |
| maradydd | it might be a $6 uC not a $3 uC | 10:22 |
| fenn | ybit: http://designerthinking.com/ http://staff.osuosl.org/~bkero/ | 10:22 |
| fenn | maradydd: what specifically? | 10:23 |
| * maradydd is not rewriting the network stack for microcontrollers, i'm already doing it in haskell | 10:23 | |
| maradydd | fenn: i want to do the open thermocycler on an 8bit AVR | 10:23 |
| fenn | i figured atmega48 would be big enough for both IP and PID algorithm | 10:23 |
| fenn | and lookup table | 10:24 |
| fenn | i havent looked at avr's in awhile, there's probably something better out by now | 10:24 |
| maradydd | yeah i'm just thinking about the other stuff that needs to be stored on the microcontroller | 10:24 |
| maradydd | and should in fact be burned into eeprom or something | 10:24 |
| maradydd | decisions decisions *waves hands* | 10:25 |
| maradydd | i have software to write first | 10:25 |
| maradydd | and a glove to finish wiring | 10:25 |
| fenn | are you one of those people who doesnt have weekends? | 10:25 |
| maradydd | well | 10:26 |
| maradydd | i'm not tied to a desk | 10:26 |
| maradydd | actually i mostly work from my couch | 10:26 |
| maradydd | and my dining room table | 10:27 |
| fenn | i havent figured out how to make that work without becoming suicidal | 10:27 |
| maradydd | at the moment i'm a kept woman | 10:27 |
| maradydd | i need to get myself officially admitted to the university and apply for some funding | 10:27 |
| maradydd | then i'll have an office there, and more people to bounce ideas off of | 10:28 |
| maradydd | we've got a hackerspace in brussels with some sharp guys though | 10:28 |
| fenn | the onboard cryptography for XMEGA might be useful if you're actually doing something dangerous/important | 10:36 |
| fenn | or simply to put it up on the internet | 10:37 |
| fenn | haven't figured out if it makes sense yet | 10:38 |
| maradydd | ssl-thermocycler | 10:38 |
| fenn | you could ssh in to a local subnet | 10:38 |
| fenn | but that has its own problems | 10:39 |
| fenn | namely that you have to set up a local subnet | 10:39 |
| fenn | and gateway with ssh accounts etc | 10:39 |
| fenn | what's the deal with "RESTful"? i looked at the wikipedia page but didn't really get it | 10:40 |
| fenn | it's like saying "simplify, simplify..." | 10:42 |
| maradydd | let everything be uniquely addressable over http | 10:47 |
| fenn | as opposed to what? | 10:48 |
| fenn | does it have to be http? | 10:50 |
| maradydd | REST, yes, because fielding's one of the http authors | 10:50 |
| maradydd | he eats sleeps and breathes it | 10:50 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: you're in alabama too? | 10:52 |
| kanzure | what's going on here? http://debian.semistable.com/debgraph.out.html | 10:54 |
| kanzure | http://debian.semistable.com/dot/xserver-xorg-video-voodoo_testing.png | 10:55 |
| kanzure | smaller: http://debian.semistable.com/dot/libregexp-java_testing.png | 10:55 |
| * fenn wishes they didnt use dot to render those | 10:56 | |
| fenn | hum i wonder if i can use their RESTful interface to change it to neato | 10:57 |
| fenn | nup | 10:57 |
| fenn | so much for representations | 10:57 |
| kanzure | debtree is probably better | 10:58 |
| kanzure | debtree package1 package2 #show the dependency path between the two packages | 10:58 |
| * maradydd knows not neato | 11:01 | |
| maradydd | is the .dot representation of each graph online somewhere? | 11:02 |
| maradydd | alternately is there some common representation between dot/neato? | 11:03 |
| kanzure | yes, dot/neato uses the same format | 11:03 |
| fenn | dot draws the nodes in rows/columns and ends up using a huge amount of screen space (which incidentally locks up my laptop when i try to look at the png's) | 11:05 |
| fenn | neato pretends there are springs holding the nodes together and they're spread apart by static electricity so it makes a sort of branched amoeba shape | 11:05 |
| maradydd | oh, very nice. i've seen flex modules for that, was curious where else to find it | 11:06 |
| maradydd | that might have been an excuse to learn flex, now i'm a little glad i don't have to | 11:06 |
| kanzure | flex/bison stuff? | 11:07 |
| maradydd | no, adobe flex | 11:07 |
| fenn | dot/neato are part of graphviz | 11:07 |
| maradydd | oy. clearly i have not looked at graphviz in a loooooong time | 11:07 |
| maradydd | well, bleh. if they just made the point representation available, the user could decide whether to use dot or neato | 11:08 |
| fenn | i was hoping that if i changed /dot/ to /neato/ in the url it would "just work" | 11:10 |
| fenn | this is a lot better than the wikipedia page for future reference http://tomayko.com/writings/rest-to-my-wife | 11:12 |
| maradydd | yes, that's the thing that really drove it home for me | 11:14 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@dsl-149-118-111.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] | 11:14 | |
| maradydd | and yeah, that would be a cool thing to do, especially since they do provide the .dot files | 11:14 |
| kanzure | aha, git commit --amend is my friend | 11:15 |
| fenn | but it sounds like http only has 4 verbs? how do you "dot" something over http? | 11:15 |
| maradydd | you ask to GET some resource with "neato" or "dot" as the argument, as necessary | 11:16 |
| maradydd | if what you want is a neatofied/dotified picture. | 11:17 |
| fenn | "Resources are referred to by a uniform resource identifier (URI)" | 11:17 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r5878ae31adea /dep/topsort.py: Merge commit 'dep/master' | 11:18 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rab5156a18590 /dep/topsort.py: Merge commit 'dep/master' (kanzure:~/scripts/) | 11:18 |
| kanzure | Use of uninitialized value $parent[0] in concatenation (.) or string at /var/www/skdb.git/ciabot_git.pl line 147. | 11:18 |
| kanzure | error: Object c8753a8478f0b22af8e05cb9754aa2f62c5aa8ad is a tree, not a commit | 11:18 |
| maradydd | the image is just presentation | 11:18 |
| fenn | so if i have a url http://foo.com/a_graph/dot is that RESTful? | 11:18 |
| fenn | because shouldnt the url refer to the resource (not the representation) | 11:18 |
| kanzure | uniform resource indicator? URI? gasp! | 11:18 |
| kanzure | identifier | 11:18 |
| kanzure | sorry | 11:18 |
| kanzure | um the commit messages there are not very useful | 11:19 |
| maradydd | i'd do something like http://foo.com/graphN?format=dot | 11:19 |
| ybit | kanzure: re: low hanging fruit: open eeg | 11:19 |
| kanzure | but basically I added dep/topsort.py | 11:19 |
| kanzure | ybit: I'm not convinced that eeg is useful for anything except bullshitting your psych professors | 11:19 |
| maradydd | or http://foo.com/graphN?format=neato | 11:19 |
| kanzure | it should be a browser plugin | 11:19 |
| fenn | maradydd: but /dot is so much easier to type | 11:19 |
| fenn | and remember | 11:20 |
| maradydd | if you're constructing a URL by hand, sure | 11:20 |
| maradydd | most of the time this gets done programmatically | 11:20 |
| maradydd | this is why AJAX works at all | 11:20 |
| fenn | besides i could do http://foo.com/render_dot?resource=GraphN | 11:20 |
| fenn | where render_dot is some cgi script | 11:21 |
| fenn | how did everything get so backwards? | 11:21 |
| maradydd | ah, i think i see the fine line here | 11:21 |
| maradydd | you're asking whether an argument is properly part of a URI | 11:21 |
| fenn | right | 11:22 |
| maradydd | and, if so, whether it necessarily should be | 11:22 |
| ybit | kanzure: i plan on using mine to find out how to get 'in the zone' more often. by looking at my sleep and eating habits prior to feeling however it is that i want to feel | 11:22 |
| ybit | i bet the zeo alarm clock could be made for ~$500-800 | 11:23 |
| kanzure | ybit: I'm sorry, I'm just not too convinced of EEG. | 11:24 |
| kanzure | so you have about 20~ electrodes attached to the skull | 11:24 |
| ybit | also good for diagnosing | 11:24 |
| kanzure | and somehow this detects some electrical current permeating the skull from within the brain | 11:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: he's just talking about monitoring sleep states | 11:24 |
| kanzure | oh | 11:24 |
| kanzure | sure then | 11:24 |
| kanzure | yes that's one (good) application of EEG | 11:24 |
| kanzure | er, just to finish my minirant, somehow people think that this 20-electrode-resolution of different signals tells them something specific | 11:25 |
| kanzure | ooh, spooky, you can get a resolution of four different key presses | 11:25 |
| ybit | who? | 11:25 |
| kanzure | :p you can get that by twitching muscles | 11:25 |
| kanzure | the media, bloggers, all sorts of psych papers, | 11:26 |
| ybit | i'm guessing that's the general feeling you get when talking to people about eeg | 11:26 |
| kanzure | there are a lot of more interesting fish in the bucket to shoot at | 11:26 |
| fenn | more SQUIDs in the bucket to deep fry | 11:26 |
| fenn | or was tha cuttlefish | 11:26 |
| kanzure | society for questionable unidentifiable data? | 11:27 |
| fenn | superconducting quantum interference device | 11:27 |
| kanzure | oh god | 11:27 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQUID | 11:28 |
| kanzure | nice magnetometer pic | 11:28 |
| kanzure | there's a way to do magnetometers with atom holography and ultracold bose-einstein condensates | 11:28 |
| fenn | " | 11:29 |
| fenn | A prototype of a Semiconductor Superconducting Quantum Interference Device (SQUID). | 11:29 |
| kanzure | or maybe I'm thinking of accelerometers out of UHV BECs | 11:29 |
| fenn | [edit]Uses for SQUIDs | 11:29 |
| fenn | The extreme sensitivity of SQUIDs makes them ideal for studies in biology. Magnetoencephalography (MEG), for example, uses measurements from an array of SQUIDs to make inferences about neural activity inside brains." | 11:29 |
| kanzure | "Another area where SQUIDs are used is magnetogastrography, which is concerned with recording the weak magnetic fields of the stomach" | 11:29 |
| ybit | """Like repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS), neurofeedback is an innovative form of electrotherapeutics that complements neurochemical interventions for mood disorders. "With the use of anticonvulsants as mood stabilizers," Othmer said, "we have seen a convergence of psychiatry and neurology in the field of pharmacology. Similarly, neurofeedback signals a convergence of psychiatry and neurology in bioelectrical approaches to treating af | 11:29 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_SQUID_microscope | 11:29 |
| fenn | ion flows = electric current = magnetic field | 11:29 |
| kanzure | ybit: bioneurofeedback with EEG might be interesting, yes | 11:30 |
| kanzure | ybit: however it's important that you know that the signal is what you think it is .. and not what you hope it is. | 11:30 |
| kanzure | for instance, heart beat feedback is kind of an obvious one | 11:30 |
| kanzure | you can confirm through the age-old tried and true methods of hcecking your pulse | 11:30 |
| kanzure | or using a heart rate monitor | 11:30 |
| ybit | o of an obvious one | 11:31 |
| ybit | 11:28 < kanzure> you can confirm through the age-old tried and true methods of hcecking your pulse | 11:31 |
| ybit | argh | 11:31 |
| ybit | ignore | 11:31 |
| fenn | "After processing to obtain current magnitude, this microscope has been successful at locating shorts in conductors to within ±3 µm at a sensor – current distance of 150 µm" | 11:31 |
| ybit | http://californiabrainworks.com/articles/PsychiatricTimesarticle.pdf | 11:31 |
| ybit | there, that's what i meant to paste | 11:31 |
| kanzure | ybit: I think you should look around for what you can get out of EEG so that you don't get your hopes up | 11:32 |
| ybit | EEG neurofeedback for treating psychiatric disorders | 11:32 |
| kanzure | like, look at the actual data from the studies | 11:32 |
| kanzure | ybit: do you have a zotero collection of EEG papers? | 11:32 |
| ybit | i don't have unrealistic goals with eeg, it's used for monitoring and aiding in diagnosing mental states | 11:32 |
| kanzure | I have to admit I've actually ignored EEG for the past year so I haven't been following it | 11:32 |
| kanzure | okay | 11:32 |
| ybit | part of open source medicine imo | 11:33 |
| kanzure | ybit: also, if you could figure out a spherical coordinate system for brain regions, that would be hot. | 11:33 |
| kanzure | there's something in the literature (multiple systems for it actually) but I haven't found them yet | 11:33 |
| ybit | that would be hot | 11:33 |
| ybit | </hiltonism> | 11:34 |
| ybit | lowest hanging fruit for diy-trans for me: eeg, laser printer/laminated sheets microfluidics, AR, wearables | 11:35 |
| kanzure | ybit: did you see the trans-tech.yaml file in skdb that fenn committed last night? | 11:36 |
| kanzure | we were brainstorming some low-hanging fruit ideas and fenn wrote them down in a somewhat possibly usable form | 11:36 |
| ybit | even book scanning can be considered diy-trans, keeping info portable and ubiquitous | 11:36 |
| fenn | "even steel is a post-scarcity technology!" </paul fernhout> | 11:36 |
| ybit | i have a similar file on my computer somewhere, i did indeed see it | 11:37 |
| ybit | also the communication matrix won't be hard to accomplish | 11:37 |
| ybit | autoscholar's another | 11:37 |
| ybit | even org-mode can be considered diy-h+ since it allows one to be more productive | 11:38 |
| ybit | fenn: right | 11:38 |
| fenn | slippery slope | 11:38 |
| fenn | before long you'll be buying stock in microsoft | 11:38 |
| kanzure | stuff on the right requires things that are on the left | 11:39 |
| kanzure | no, I still don't get it. why would "dna sequencing" 'require' microfluidics? it doesn't.. | 11:41 |
| ybit | who said that? | 11:42 |
| kanzure | it's in the file | 11:42 |
| ybit | for hlpc probably | 11:42 |
| kanzure | hlpc isn't necessarily microfluidics | 11:43 |
| ybit | not necessarily, but what we've been looking at is | 11:43 |
| fenn | but microfluidic dna sequencing does | 11:44 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * rc884c40198c6 /trans-tech.yaml: added some PCR and DNA sequencing nodes | 11:45 |
| ybit | kanzure: interesting, you have a script that alerts twitter when you make an update | 11:46 |
| ybit | i like it :) | 11:46 |
| ybit | it's really cool to have updates on skdb while at work | 11:46 |
| ybit | minus the work part | 11:46 |
| fenn | it does twitter? | 11:47 |
| fenn | i mean, i know it's possible, but does it? | 11:47 |
| * maradydd gets commit tweets from kanzure | 11:48 | |
| kanzure | oh really? | 11:48 |
| kanzure | huh guess I enabled that | 11:49 |
| kanzure | http://twitter.com/kanzure | 11:49 |
| ybit | and fenn doesn't do twitter either i'm guessing? | 11:50 |
| fenn | twitter is lame | 11:50 |
| ybit | maybe you will be more apt to try identi.ca? | 11:50 |
| fenn | random unsorted emails from people? no thanks | 11:51 |
| fenn | just because it's on the web doesn't make it better | 11:51 |
| ybit | it's more like random txt messages to your phone | 11:51 |
| fenn | all the more reason to hate phones | 11:52 |
| ybit | with a web interface added | 11:52 |
| ybit | bah, could be useful when grepping for info | 11:53 |
| fenn | if only i could grep the web | 11:53 |
| ybit | :) | 11:53 |
| fenn | "reclaim google, altavista, dejanews, freshmeat, research index, slashdot and many others from the false-prophet, pox-infested heathen lands of html-forms, placing these wonders where they belong, deep in unix heartland, as god loving extensions to the shell" | 11:55 |
| kanzure | surfraw :) | 11:55 |
| fenn | i suspect google is the closest most people have come to being exposed to the command line | 11:55 |
| maradydd | my, surfraw has a lot of libs | 11:56 |
| maradydd | er, uses | 11:56 |
| fenn | elvi? | 11:56 |
| maradydd | bunch of perl stuff had to be installed | 11:57 |
| kanzure | surfraw has recently been somewhat dead | 11:57 |
| kanzure | no more developers hanging around | 11:57 |
| fenn | guess they got tired of rewriting the scrapers | 11:58 |
| fenn | surfraw was before people realized they should publish API's | 11:58 |
| fenn | too bad it hasn't kept up (API's arent exactly easy to use either) | 11:59 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r42b7373a3d7e /trans-tech.yaml: updated transhuman tech requirements doc | 12:00 |
| ybit | when computerized manufacturing process planning systems and manufacturing processes reference guide come in, i plan on creating a makeshift manual book scanner | 12:03 |
| ybit | i.e. prop the camera on something take pictures | 12:03 |
| fenn | i think you will be disappointed in cmpps | 12:05 |
| fenn | btw i have like 250 pages from mprg | 12:06 |
| fenn | from google books | 12:06 |
| fenn | maradydd: "a Turing-complete language which _cannot be disabled_" - what about the halting problem? | 12:12 |
| fenn | or fork bombs | 12:12 |
| maradydd | ah, yes, xslt | 12:22 |
| maradydd | the stupidest thing ever put into a browser | 12:22 |
| maradydd | yes, you can trick the xslt interpreter into an infinite loop | 12:23 |
| maradydd | and the xslt interpreter can't be turned off the way the javascript one can | 12:23 |
| maradydd | that's an upcoming paper, btw. not done writing it yet -_- | 12:23 |
| fenn | ok i just thought what you were saying sounded impossible | 12:23 |
| maradydd | you can turn off javascript in your browser. you can't turn off xslt. | 12:24 |
| fenn | thought you meant "here is a turing complete language which is immune to attack" | 12:25 |
| maradydd | no. the exact opposite, here is a turing complete language which is at this time an undisableable attack vector. | 12:26 |
| maradydd | please do not spread that around, k? i still have to write those papers in order to write my thesis ;P | 12:26 |
| fenn | heh ok | 12:27 |
| maradydd | and i've been scooped fairly recently so it burns | 12:27 |
| maradydd | i trust you and bryan as far as i can throw you :P | 12:27 |
| kanzure | import transtech | 12:28 |
| kanzure | transtech.print_total(transtech.yamlfile) | 12:28 |
| fenn | maradydd: huh. i thought i made up that phrase | 12:28 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r36d529c08ba4 /transtech.py: playing around with the output | 12:28 |
| fenn | must have rattled around in my braincase for a few years unnoticed | 12:29 |
| kanzure | so.. george church emailed me. | 12:55 |
| kanzure | _http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bios/church.html | 12:55 |
| kanzure | ceorge? heh | 12:55 |
| kanzure | http://arep.med.harvard.edu/ | 12:56 |
| kanzure | http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~biophys/George_Church.htm | 12:57 |
| fenn | you should probably read http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/church06/church06_index.html | 12:57 |
| kanzure | '18 postdoctoral fellows, 14 graduate students ' | 12:58 |
| fenn | though its sort of like listening to yourself ramble | 12:58 |
| kanzure | heh dyson dropped out of college during year 2 and then went straight to graduate school at harvard | 13:00 |
| fenn | "those two things were very intensely distressing to the National Institutes of Health. They said, we can't let the Department of Energy steal what could be the biggest prize in history by doing the genome project and we certainly don't want a company to start patenting all of our genes. That got them motivated in a way that nothing else could have... | 13:10 |
| fenn | and managed to get us the three billion dollars that we asked for." | 13:10 |
| fenn | three BILLION dollars?? | 13:10 |
| kanzure | what the hell? | 13:11 |
| fenn | this figure refers to the total projected funding over a 13-year period (1990–2003) for a wide range of scientific activities related to genomics. These include studies of human diseases, experimental organisms (such as bacteria, yeast, worms, flies, and mice); development of new technologies for biological and medical research; computational methods to analyze genomes; and ethical, legal, and social issues related to genetics. Hum | 13:11 |
| fenn | i wonder if that all came through | 13:12 |
| kanzure | computational methods and experimental organisms are at least up on NCBI somewhat | 13:12 |
| kanzure | those "new technologies" I'm not so sure about. | 13:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | i wonder if they'll blow it all on a microsoft-campus building spree and not actual science | 13:12 |
| bkero | Genome sequencing was hard work | 13:12 |
| fenn | that was 1990-2003 | 13:12 |
| kanzure | bkero: ever read "How perl saved the Human Genome Project"? | 13:12 |
| bkero | kanzure: haha no | 13:13 |
| kanzure | it's about a page long, kinda worth it | 13:13 |
| bkero | linky? | 13:13 |
| kanzure | http://bioperl.org/ | 13:13 |
| kanzure | hold on | 13:13 |
| bkero | Ah, bioperl | 13:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.bioperl.org/wiki/How_Perl_saved_human_genome | 13:13 |
| kanzure | that diagram is precious | 13:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.bioperl.org/w/images/b/bd/TPJ_Helix.jpg | 13:14 |
| fenn | i thought you were going to link to the unsung hacker all-month-coding-spree that won the race | 13:15 |
| fenn | or whatever actually happened | 13:15 |
| fenn | do you remember what i'm talking about? | 13:17 |
| fenn | i guess it's not in the logs | 13:18 |
| bkero | They were using 1 byte per base, why not just use 2 bits per base, and have it be a QUARTER of the size. | 13:20 |
| fenn | byte can encode uncertain values too | 13:21 |
| fenn | not to mention makes the code way easier | 13:21 |
| fenn | 4x is not much of a savings for massive headaches | 13:22 |
| bkero | It is when it's to the scale of 1-10tb many years ago | 13:23 |
| bkero | It's also not that much of a code headache at all. You just do 2 simple bitwise operations. | 13:23 |
| bkero | Although I see how uncertain values could be a valid argument. | 13:24 |
| kanzure | fenn: yes I remember | 13:25 |
| kanzure | it was posted to the diybio list | 13:25 |
| kanzure | "God speed" | 13:26 |
| fenn | aha | 13:26 |
| fenn | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/339276d4234ecccf/4cf5451230630171?lnk=gst&q=godspeed#4cf5451230630171 | 13:26 |
| fenn | much more interesting story | 13:27 |
| fenn | (sorry, "why perl is soo kewl" just doesnt interest me) | 13:28 |
| kanzure | here's Kent's paper: http://genome.cshlp.org/content/11/9/1541.abstract?ck=nck | 13:28 |
| kanzure | robots.txt exclusion :( http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://genome.ucsc.edu/goldenPath/algo.html | 13:29 |
| kanzure | https://lists.soe.ucsc.edu/pipermail/genome/2001-April.txt | 13:29 |
| kanzure | ah here we go | 13:30 |
| kanzure | http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~kent/ | 13:30 |
| kanzure | note the beard. | 13:30 |
| kanzure | http://hgwdev.cse.ucsc.edu/~kent/exe/usage.txt | 13:31 |
| kanzure | nice fasta file utilities listed | 13:32 |
| kanzure | huh these are all nice | 13:32 |
| kanzure | why aren't these packaged? | 13:32 |
| fenn | i wish people wouldnt say "non-commercial use only" | 13:32 |
| fenn | genome project stuff from 2000? why would anyone package it? | 13:33 |
| fenn | redhat 7.3 didnt have dependency based packages | 13:34 |
| kanzure | aren't they only up to redhat 11? | 13:36 |
| fenn | blat looks useful and probably should be packaged | 13:36 |
| fenn | "maps your sequence to location in the genome" | 13:37 |
| fenn | the license looks icky anyway | 13:39 |
| kanzure | some hero he is :/ | 13:39 |
| kanzure | stallman should have done it :p | 13:39 |
| kanzure | 780 faFrag - Extract a piece of DNA from a .fa file. | 13:40 |
| kanzure | 781 usage: | 13:40 |
| kanzure | 782 faFrag in.fa start end out.fa | 13:40 |
| kanzure | er, so a regexp basically? | 13:40 |
| fenn | if you can call this a license "These executables are free for personal, | 13:40 |
| fenn | non-profit, and academic users. Commercial | 13:40 |
| fenn | users please make arrangements with | 13:40 |
| fenn | me" | 13:40 |
| kanzure | buh? http://biopackages.net/ | 13:47 |
| kanzure | http://biopackages.wiki.sourceforge.net/Quick+Developers+Guide | 13:48 |
| kanzure | http://biopackages.wiki.sourceforge.net/Biopackages+Manuscript+Page | 13:49 |
| fenn | BLAT right there on the first page | 13:49 |
| kanzure | "and is growing at a rate of roughly 20 packages/week." | 13:50 |
| kanzure | heh they reference why repos are a good idea "Couch, Alva - SLINK: Effective Filesystem Maintenance Abstractions for Community-Based Administration" | 13:50 |
| fenn | 20/week seems too fast | 13:50 |
| fenn | that's faster than debian | 13:51 |
| fenn | unless they mean 20 new versions | 13:51 |
| kanzure | guess it's too easy to convince bioinformatics people that packages are interesting | 13:52 |
| bkero | LOOK ITS REUSABLE | 13:52 |
| kanzure | bkero: that doesn't seem to convince anyone who doesn't understand packages | 13:52 |
| fenn | you're just mad because diybio ignores everything you say | 13:53 |
| * bkero just went into work to reboot gentoo's smtp server. | 13:53 | |
| kanzure | yeah :( | 13:53 |
| bkero | Life is hard as a mad scientist. :( | 13:54 |
| bkero | You never get invited to fancy parties. | 13:54 |
| kanzure | I thought the point of mad science was to become more mad? | 13:54 |
| bkero | To what end? | 13:54 |
| kanzure | to no end | 13:54 |
| fenn | biopackages.net is using CVS, RPM, and perl.. wtf | 13:54 |
| kanzure | maybe it's old? | 13:54 |
| kanzure | don't the rpm people hate perl? | 13:55 |
| kanzure | the deb people are the ones supposedly in bed with perl | 13:55 |
| fenn | apt is half perl | 13:55 |
| fenn | not sure about rpm | 13:55 |
| fenn | anyway i just thought it was weird | 13:56 |
| fenn | "discourage any kind of negative use and encourage positive uses in every way you can as a top societal priority, not something you just give lip service to for a microsecond in some Congressional session." | 13:57 |
| fenn | "we could have said, this could cause bio-war or robot-war or bug-war or something. We chose not to go that route because that implants in the young mind that that's what biology and synthetic biology is about." | 13:58 |
| fenn | am i reading george church or george dyson? | 14:02 |
| kanzure | there was a section by george dyson on that page | 14:02 |
| kanzure | edge.org is secretly this "forum" where they post replies to each other | 14:02 |
| fenn | it's like 30 pages long and seems to repeat some phrases from the top section | 14:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | the more a republican politician repeats something, the more it's the opposite of what they mean | 14:03 |
| fenn | yah the dyson response is at the very bottom, only like a paragraph | 14:04 |
| fenn | i guess the top part was just an abstract | 14:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | the top 29.5 pages? | 14:04 |
| fenn | the part above "Response by George Dyson" | 14:06 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 14:06 | |
| bkero | fenn: RPM is 100% dirtiness | 14:15 |
| kanzure | says a debian sysadmin | 14:15 |
| bkero | I'm a gentoo sysadmin. | 14:16 |
| kanzure | huh guess that says something about rpm then | 14:16 |
| bkero | I have to administer CentOS systems. They're ugly. | 14:16 |
| fenn | "Somehow having the keys to the chem lab seemed to involve a whole lot more trust than having access to the greenhouse in my previous projects" | 14:20 |
| fenn | bkero: i agree, sort of a pale slow funky imitation of debian | 14:21 |
| bkero | They're enterprisey | 14:22 |
| fenn | for some reason the phrase "enterprising bastard" springs to mind | 14:23 |
| maradydd | hah, what's what from? | 14:23 |
| fenn | apparently it's a synonym for "thief" | 14:24 |
| fenn | oh, the quote is from george church's personal bio: http://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/pers.html | 14:26 |
| fenn | i wonder how they manage to justify the polonator sequencer's cost of $170k | 14:30 |
| fenn | personal fabomics | 14:37 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r9bd7f4422243 / (4 files in 2 dirs): break everything | 14:57 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r0c0be7b6939d /pymates/pymates.py: matrix math works now- fixes various index out of bound errors | 15:12 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r6931aa85fdb7 /pymates/ (pymates.py rapid-test.py): part mating transformation works (sort of)- is using some fake values at the moment; added a rapid tester script for your convenience | 15:31 |
| -!- strages [n=strages@c-68-62-216-5.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 15:43 | |
| kanzure | ~/manufacturing/national_design_repository/gicl.cs.drexel.edu/repository/data/repository | 16:04 |
| fenn | w3m-img | 16:08 |
| kanzure | /home/bryan/manufacturing/national_design_repository/gicl.cs.drexel.edu/repository/data/repository/Autodesk/blowdryer | 16:12 |
| kanzure | http://gicl.mcs.drexel.edu/ | 16:22 |
| kanzure | sat2vrml | 16:22 |
| kanzure | http://www.graco.unb.br/alvares/DOUTORADO/papers_omega/sat2vrml/edge.mcs.drexel.edu/GICL/sat2vrml/3dt.readme.txt | 16:22 |
| kanzure | hm | 16:22 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20050310144102/http://edge.mcs.drexel.edu/GICL/sat2vrml/ | 16:23 |
| kanzure | "**Note: I cannot provide binaries for this program because it requires | 16:24 |
| kanzure | libraries that are owned by Spatial. You must own a copy of ACIS to compile | 16:24 |
| kanzure | this program" lame | 16:24 |
| kanzure | hello: | 16:27 |
| kanzure | http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/wiki/Engineering_Format_Registry | 16:27 |
| -!- drazak [n=drazak@drazak.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 16:40 | |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * reb1e620e062e /combined.dat: new users need combined.dat to run tests.py | 16:50 |
| -!- drazak [n=drazak@drazak.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 16:53 | |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@88.149.89.58] has joined #hplusroadmap | 17:53 | |
| kanzure | hey Smari | 18:01 |
| Smari | y0 Bryan | 18:01 |
| kanzure | 1.5 million dollars for a repository? wtf is this bullshit http://www.digitalgovernment.org/search/projects/project.jsp?ID=226 | 18:04 |
| kanzure | 4 aps (acronyms per second) | 18:05 |
| Smari | Isn't that 157555? | 18:07 |
| kanzure | pymates.move(pymates.total_parts[1], 5,5,-10, 0,0,1, -1,0,1) | 18:23 |
| kanzure | *finally* | 18:23 |
| kanzure | Smari: my mistake. let me correct it: 150k dollars for a repository? wtf is this bullshit | 18:23 |
| Smari | kanzure, indeed. | 18:24 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/2009-07-19_pymates.png | 18:28 |
| kanzure | behold! "progress" | 18:28 |
| Smari | that's rather phallic... what is it? | 18:29 |
| kanzure | it's a peg in a hole in a block | 18:30 |
| kanzure | pymates is a module for skdb to figure out how many ways different oem parts can fit together | 18:30 |
| kanzure | or whether or not they are compatible at all | 18:30 |
| kanzure | so I'm just starting with some basic geometries | 18:31 |
| kanzure | er, there's a hole in the block that you can't see | 18:31 |
| kanzure | guess that's kind of important | 18:31 |
| Smari | mkay. | 18:31 |
| Smari | isn't that computationally intensive? | 18:31 |
| Smari | Figuring out if things fit together that is? | 18:32 |
| fenn | yep | 18:32 |
| kanzure | it's not as complex as you think | 18:32 |
| fenn | that's why it's the last resort - makes you wonder why we're implementing it first | 18:32 |
| kanzure | think of it more as features/tags | 18:32 |
| kanzure | and then you match up the tags | 18:32 |
| fenn | so the pretty pictures are just icing, even though nobody's bothered to write the cake | 18:33 |
| fenn | apparently campbell doesn't appreciate "cake" | 18:33 |
| fenn | <- cake eater | 18:33 |
| kanzure | you sir have not eaten one single cake the entire time you have been here | 18:33 |
| kanzure | you are not a cake eater | 18:33 |
| Smari | The cake is a lie? | 18:34 |
| kanzure | The icing is the lie. | 18:34 |
| fenn | according to uncyclopedia: "A very handsome man with a cake fetish." i think that just about describes me | 18:34 |
| Smari | I baked bread today. | 18:34 |
| fenn | the icing contains nutrasweet | 18:34 |
| kanzure | congratulations, you've been venn-diagrammed into all other ten million plus losers on IRC | 18:35 |
| fenn | wow ten million? | 18:35 |
| kanzure | china, man | 18:35 |
| fenn | i feel so, one-with-the-internet | 18:35 |
| Smari | kanzure? | 18:36 |
| kanzure | hm? | 18:37 |
| -!- wrldpc2 [n=benny@98.214.96.63] has quit [] | 18:38 | |
| Smari | nevermind. | 18:39 |
| fenn | git/yaml blog engine: http://tom.preston-werner.com/2008/11/17/blogging-like-a-hacker.html | 18:42 |
| fenn | "This is also the engine behind GitHub Pages" | 18:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | fenn, got the first complaint about the pics on the sterioimages.html being shrunk | 18:43 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: say what? | 18:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | [18:18] <unkmar> katsmeow-afk: some of us have dual screens and can handle the larger images. | 18:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | [18:18] <unkmar> please don't reduce to 400x300 | 18:43 |
| katsmeow-afk | [18:19] <unkmar> I saw detail before that was lost in the reduction. :( | 18:43 |
| fenn | someone with a 1600 pixel monitor was upset? | 18:43 |
| fenn | it just seems like django is a bit overkill for a blog | 18:45 |
| fenn | why does this stuff have to be so big and complicated | 18:45 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with a flatfile wiki? | 18:45 |
| kanzure | er, blog | 18:45 |
| kanzure | sorry. we're talking about blogs, not wikis | 18:45 |
| kanzure | blosxom | 18:46 |
| kanzure | was using that for a while | 18:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.blosxom.com/ | 18:46 |
| fenn | aether might be worth looking at too | 18:47 |
| fenn | anyway blogs suck | 18:48 |
| fenn | i just want something to render wiki markup, read text files from a git repo, and not get in the way too much | 18:48 |
| fenn | and be easily hackable of course | 18:48 |
| genehacker_vista | whoa | 19:27 |
| genehacker_vista | what did I miss? | 19:27 |
| kanzure | a lot of bad matrix math | 19:43 |
| Smari | i.e., nothing new. | 19:50 |
| fenn | ~/manufacturing/national_design_repository/gicl.cs.drexel.edu/repository/data/repository/Lego/lego-wipers | 19:51 |
| kanzure | neat :) | 20:03 |
| genehacker_vista | legos? | 20:06 |
| kanzure | gmsh seems to do wrl | 20:13 |
| fenn | apparently some person made a lego simulator | 20:21 |
| fenn | you could crank gears and linkages and perhaps stick blocks together | 20:21 |
| kanzure | http://geuz.org/gmsh/ | 20:21 |
| kanzure | is that leocad? | 20:22 |
| fenn | dunno | 20:33 |
| fenn | i just saw the movies remember | 20:33 |
| genehacker_vista | but can model block deformation? | 20:42 |
| kanzure | does anyone know where fltk-config could be found? it's not in libfltk1.1 | 20:48 |
| -!- katsmeow-afk is now known as katsmeow | 20:49 | |
| kanzure | maybe "fluid" | 20:49 |
| kanzure | yep. that did it. | 20:49 |
| * kanzure compiles gmsh with ./configure --enable-occ --with-occ-prefix=~/local/opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros | 20:50 | |
| kanzure | fenn: could you try wrl/vrml loading in gmsh on leibniz? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | compiled in 5m57.569s | 21:00 |
| genehacker_vista | hmmm... | 21:08 |
| genehacker_vista | I need to figure out how to ssh into lab computers | 21:09 |
| -!- Smari [n=spm@88.149.89.58] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 21:12 | |
| kanzure | genehacker_vista: you can do it on ubuntu by typing "ssh" | 21:15 |
| kanzure | on windows, you can try putty (search for it) | 21:15 |
| ybit | ~/manufacturing/national_design_repository/gicl.cs.drexel.edu/repository/data/repository/Lego/lego-wiper is where exactly? | 21:58 |
| kanzure | leibniz | 22:00 |
| CIA-73 | skdb: kanzure * r487456e0203e /pymates/pymates.py: correct coords for pymates example | 22:01 |
| genehacker_vista | it's not a matter of doing ssh as it is finding a machine to use | 22:01 |
| kanzure | what do you mean? | 22:01 |
| genehacker_vista | I need a machine to ssh into | 22:02 |
| genehacker_vista | that has solidworks on it | 22:02 |
| kanzure | how would ssh work with solidworks? | 22:02 |
| genehacker_vista | I am confused | 22:02 |
| kanzure | there's a way to do remote desktop with windows but it sucks because it's windows | 22:02 |
| kanzure | doesn't have much to do with ssh though | 22:03 |
| genehacker_vista | the question is can I do that with a lab computer | 22:04 |
| genehacker_vista | I need to do a computation that takes a long time | 22:04 |
| genehacker_vista | possibly days | 22:06 |
| genehacker_vista | otherwise I'll have to test an IRL part | 22:08 |
| * ybit is thinking for fish:/KIOslave | 22:08 | |
| ybit | thankful* | 22:08 |
| fenn | ybit you can look at some of the lego-wiper stuff here: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/lego/ | 22:11 |
| fenn | i just thought it was funny that they stole kanzure's thunder | 22:11 |
| kanzure | thundarrr! | 22:11 |
| fenn | some screenshots i took of files in the repo: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/nat_repo/ | 22:12 |
| fenn | not like they're going to be useful or anything | 22:13 |
| kanzure | it's nice | 22:13 |
| kanzure | thanks | 22:13 |
| fenn | i just have a cad fetish i guess | 22:13 |
| kanzure | how about the lego videos or something | 22:14 |
| fenn | hmm. they're pretty big | 22:14 |
| kanzure | there's a copy on adl | 22:15 |
| fenn | oh? ok | 22:15 |
| fenn | i dont see it | 22:15 |
| kanzure | ok nevermind. hmph. | 22:15 |
| kanzure | "yer doin it wrong" http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/nat_repo/servo_board.png | 22:16 |
| fenn | what's wrong with that? besides being boring | 22:16 |
| kanzure | are those just block models of electronic components? | 22:17 |
| fenn | they were probably exported from some EDA program | 22:17 |
| kanzure | I sure hope so | 22:17 |
| fenn | that said, some people do cad in autocad : | 22:17 |
| fenn | i hate your keyboard btw | 22:17 |
| kanzure | there is a stack directly behind you | 22:18 |
| kanzure | have at it | 22:18 |
| katsmeow | can anyone grab this for me? : http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118811133/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 | 22:26 |
| katsmeow | they want money for it,, unless you have a subscription | 22:26 |
| ybit | hmm | 22:27 |
| ybit | something has gone wrong with serveftp | 22:28 |
| ybit | can't start links from there to grab the paper for katsmeow | 22:28 |
| ybit | drazak: what papers are you missing?.. | 22:28 |
| ybit | ah, here we go | 22:30 |
| ybit | katsmeow: what's the title of the paper, a doi might be helpful too | 22:31 |
| ybit | katsmeow: the link doesn't work because the cookie has expired | 22:31 |
| ybit | or maybe i'm just not accepting cookies | 22:32 |
| katsmeow | yeas, they have a severe cookie thing going on | 22:32 |
| ybit | nope | 22:32 |
| ybit | i'm accepting cookies | 22:32 |
| ybit | btw, you're in alabama? what part? | 22:32 |
| ybit | near the bay? | 22:33 |
| katsmeow | i had to resort to IE to get the page | 22:33 |
| katsmeow | 45 min from Bham | 22:33 |
| ybit | south or north of bham? | 22:33 |
| ybit | anywho, i'm highly amused | 22:33 |
| katsmeow | amused? | 22:34 |
| ybit | i would have never imagined another alabamian would be in this channel | 22:34 |
| katsmeow | me either! | 22:34 |
| ybit | i'm in florence | 22:34 |
| ybit | the rest of my family is in birmingham, huntsville, and nashville | 22:34 |
| ybit | anywho, send me the title again and i'll grab the paper | 22:35 |
| ybit | s/again/ | 22:35 |
| katsmeow | http://doi.wiley.com/10.1111/j.1461-0248.2004.00665.x | 22:36 |
| katsmeow | i dunno where Florence is, but i have heard about it | 22:36 |
| katsmeow | heard of it,, heard the name | 22:36 |
| ybit | far northwest, 1.5 hours from huntsville, 2 from bham | 22:36 |
| katsmeow | how do you get the page? | 22:36 |
| ybit | eh? | 22:37 |
| katsmeow | [22:29] <ybit> anywho, send me the title again and i'll grab the paper | 22:37 |
| katsmeow | how? | 22:37 |
| ybit | i'm trying through my university's proxy right now | 22:37 |
| katsmeow | ah | 22:37 |
| ybit | but kanzure has hooked me up with the connection at utexas | 22:37 |
| ybit | which has access to many more journals than i do | 22:37 |
| * katsmeow nods | 22:38 | |
| genehacker_vista | kanzure... | 22:40 |
| kanzure | ? | 22:40 |
| katsmeow | In later tests, platinum was found in the | 22:44 |
| katsmeow | nodules at concentrations of 0.1 to 0.5 grams per | 22:44 |
| katsmeow | ton. | 22:44 |
| katsmeow | cost effective to grab some? | 22:44 |
| katsmeow | ahhh, now i know why the entire hawaii island chain out towards Japan were made protected: there's estimated 400 million tons of 2.5% cobalt ore out there | 22:46 |
| ybit | argh, again my uni doesn't have access, and i recieve an error when trying to access EBSCO through utexas.. | 22:46 |
| kanzure | try ssh -X :) | 22:48 |
| kanzure | I've recently rediscovered the joys of -X | 22:48 |
| ybit | i see utexas has access to wiley so this shouldn't take too long | 22:48 |
| ybit | hah, links doesn't know what to do with pdf | 22:51 |
| ybit | hmm | 22:51 |
| kanzure | ybit: ssh -X and run konqueror on adl.serveftp.org. you should be able to get kpdf running. | 22:53 |
| ybit | ah | 22:54 |
| ybit | never used -X before | 22:54 |
| ybit | ybit@adl.serveftp.org's password: | 22:55 |
| ybit | Warning: untrusted X11 forwarding setup failed: xauth key data not ge | 22:55 |
| ybit | Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwar | 22:55 |
| ybit | An error occurred while loading fish://ybit@adl.serveftp.org: | 22:56 |
| ybit | The process for the fish://adl.serveftp.org protocol died unexpectedly. | 22:56 |
| kanzure | ybit: can you chmod a+r your ~/*.pdf ? | 22:56 |
| ybit | fail everywhere | 22:56 |
| katsmeow | there's a html version of the page too | 22:56 |
| ybit | katsmeow: yeah, tried that | 22:56 |
| ybit | something about logging in to wiley, guess i would have to setup a username/passwd | 22:56 |
| kanzure | utexas sometimes does not have sufficient access to wiley interscience | 22:57 |
| ybit | kanzure: on serveftp.org? | 22:57 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:57 |
| ybit | yeah | 22:57 |
| kanzure | still says permission denied | 22:58 |
| ybit | now try | 22:58 |
| kanzure | permission denied | 22:58 |
| ybit | -rw------- 1 ybit ybit 142888 2009-06-20 23:06 Reactive Ion Etching of InP using Hydrocarbons.pdf | 22:59 |
| ybit | i see | 22:59 |
| kanzure | looks completely wrong | 22:59 |
| ybit | now try? | 23:01 |
| ybit | -rw------- 1 ybit ybit 1316009 2009-06-20 23:06 Silicon surface texturing by reactive ion etching.pdf | 23:01 |
| ybit | ah fuck | 23:01 |
| kanzure | chmod a+r *.pdf | 23:01 |
| ybit | that works | 23:02 |
| ybit | not sure what i was doing | 23:02 |
| kanzure | yelling at the filesystem? | 23:02 |
| * katsmeow goes to put the cat and house to bed | 23:02 | |
| ybit | did your chmod a+r ~/*.pdf first didn't work and my find path/ -type d -exec chmod a+x {} \; seemed to not work either | 23:02 |
| kanzure | I didn't chmod anything for you. | 23:03 |
| ybit | i tried the command you suggested* | 23:04 |
| kanzure | anywho. I'm gone now. | 23:04 |
| ybit | alright | 23:04 |
| kanzure | be sure to pull from the skdb repo | 23:04 |
| kanzure | lots of fun OCC stuff added today | 23:04 |
| kanzure | like skdb/shell.py and skdb/pymates/rapid-test.py | 23:04 |
| ybit | and i'll try fetching the file for you katsmeow | 23:04 |
| ybit | will do kanzure | 23:05 |
| * ybit forgot the Y in ssh, thus -X failed | 23:08 | |
| ybit | my first time to use -X ..now i have reached true linux user status | 23:09 |
| ybit | s/rapid-test.py | 23:18 |
| ybit | argh | 23:18 |
| ybit | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/unsorted/Greenhouse%20gas%20buildup,%20sardines,%20submarine%20eruptions%20and%20the%20possibility%20of%20abrupt%20degradation%20of%20intense%20marine%20upwelling%20ecosystems.pdf | 23:18 |
| ybit | katsmeow ^ took long enough | 23:18 |
| katsmeow | wwwwooooooooooooooooooooo | 23:19 |
| katsmeow | and wow at the contents too | 23:21 |
| katsmeow | thanks muchly, ybit! | 23:22 |
| ybit | no probs :) | 23:23 |
| ybit | (i lie) | 23:23 |
| ybit | no probs for now on though, w00t | 23:23 |
| katsmeow | kool | 23:23 |
| ybit | http://www.geuz.org/gmsh/ :: Gmsh: a three-dimensional finite element mesh generator with built-in pre- and post-processing facilities | 23:46 |
| ybit | http://www.geuz.org/gmsh/#Screenshots | 23:46 |
| ybit | http://www.geuz.org/gmsh/screencasts/ | 23:49 |
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