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| flamoot | http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/08/17/1938243/IBM-Scientists-Build-Computer-Chips-From-DNA biotech lithography | 01:45 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | *yawn* | 01:50 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/machines/replicator | 01:50 |
| ybit | kanzure: feel free to upload underground sources of adderall and modafinil at anytime within the next few seconds :) | 01:50 |
| fenn | the whole point is to not have to use a chip | 01:51 |
| fenn | ybit based on my observations of kanzure i dont think adderall is necessarily an enhancer | 01:52 |
| QuantumG | never read the slashdot summary (let alone the title) as representative of the article | 01:52 |
| ybit | fenn: how so? | 01:53 |
| QuantumG | it's pretty cool, they're doing DNA origami with lithographic guides | 01:53 |
| fenn | ybit: well it just seems to make you keep doing whatever you're doing | 01:53 |
| ybit | or was that a joke lost in teh interwebs? | 01:53 |
| fenn | whether it's a good idea or not | 01:53 |
| fenn | The company is researching ways in which DNA can arrange itself into patterns on the surface of a chip, and then act as a kind of scaffolding on to which millions of tiny carbon nanotubes and nanoparticles are deposited. That network of nanotubes and nanoparticles could act as the wires and transistors on future computer chips | 01:54 |
| fenn | it's not lithography | 01:54 |
| fenn | calling it a 'chip' is also misleading because the process is inherently 3D | 01:55 |
| QuantumG | read the article ffs | 01:55 |
| fenn | what article | 01:55 |
| fenn | "A paper describing the scientists' achievements was due to be published Sunday" is so fucking specific | 01:56 |
| QuantumG | http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nnano.2009.220.html | 01:56 |
| fenn | why does everyone have to start talking as soon as i decide to go to bed | 01:57 |
| fenn | well, whatever. you can get TFA yourself if you want it | 01:58 |
| fenn | and btw i hate slashdot | 01:58 |
| QuantumG | but yes, the fact that they take something as low tech and cool as dna origami and then go throw it at million dollar hardware and make a big deal that they get good results is pretty ironic. | 01:59 |
| fenn | i just hope they manage to keep their patent grubbing paws off of my substrate | 02:00 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Aug 18 03:12:56 2009 | ||
| --- Log opened Tue Aug 18 03:13:08 2009 | ||
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| kanzure | any idea where genehacker has been? | 06:43 |
| kanzure | makebase.org ? | 07:17 |
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| drazak | dunno | 07:37 |
| drazak | we're diying some shit at the lab | 07:37 |
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| draz|lab | kanzure: I'm all for open source, but rms is extremem | 08:32 |
| kanzure | rms isn't open source | 08:59 |
| ybit | heh, good point | 09:46 |
| ybit | draz|lab: how is he 'extreme'? | 09:46 |
| kanzure | are women supposed to be attracted to tentacle porn? | 09:46 |
| ybit | maybe if they are women with tentacles | 09:47 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/file-lists/ | 09:47 |
| ybit | does that lists underground suppliers? ;) | 09:47 |
| kanzure | no | 09:48 |
| kanzure | I seriously don't know how to figure out a list of underground suppliers | 09:48 |
| kanzure | otherwise I would already have it | 09:48 |
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| kanzure | let me repeat: I suck at infiltrating the underground world of undergrounds | 09:48 |
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| ybit | apparently you can buy marijuana online | 09:50 |
| ybit | i was asking around about it and several of my friends who know growers say you buy it online | 09:50 |
| ybit | that has to be the most unsafe way of going about obtaining pot | 09:50 |
| ybit | pot +seeds | 09:50 |
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| * ybit isn't looking to grow for the record | 09:51 | |
| ybit | dea, please don't bust down my doors today, i want to have a productive day without such nonsense | 09:51 |
| ybit | </paranoia> | 09:51 |
| ybit | let's see.. | 09:57 |
| ybit | http://superkuh.ath.cx/users/superkuh/Library/ | 09:57 |
| ybit | http://heybryan.org/books/ | 09:57 |
| ybit | http://eugen.leitl.org/ | 09:57 |
| kanzure | what about it? | 09:57 |
| ybit | http://eugen.leitl.org/ | 09:57 |
| ybit | whoops | 09:57 |
| ybit | http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/ | 09:57 |
| ybit | what else am i missing? | 09:57 |
| kanzure | oh shit I forgot about bio.cc | 09:58 |
| kanzure | thanks, I thought it was in another folder | 09:58 |
| * kanzure should link to there instead | 09:58 | |
| ybit | just trying to figure out how to go about creating a network of rsync mirrors | 09:58 |
| ybit | how to figure out which papers to include is the question at hand | 09:59 |
| kanzure | I think adl should be the rsync mirror for now | 09:59 |
| kanzure | er, maybe not actually | 09:59 |
| kanzure | if eugen can find some high bandwidth server somewhere that would be hawt | 09:59 |
| ybit | maybe just find 3-4 people willing to setup a mirror, and whatever they put up, you mirror | 09:59 |
| kanzure | adl could be a mirror I guess | 10:00 |
| ybit | well then we have 4 people willing | 10:01 |
| kanzure | how did you get superkuh? | 10:14 |
| ybit | what do you mean get? | 10:19 |
| ybit | oh, no.. he isn't willing | 10:19 |
| ybit | i haven't asked, maybe he is | 10:19 |
| ybit | it's you, me, ted, eugen | 10:19 |
| kanzure | ted who? | 10:20 |
| ybit | ted smith | 10:20 |
| ybit | dunno, said he was game when i asked who was willing to host some stuff | 10:20 |
| ybit | guess the first couple of sentence are confusing | 10:27 |
| draz|lab | to eat lunch of not to eat lunch | 10:30 |
| ybit | to not and explain why rms is extreme :) | 10:31 |
| fenn | rms is an extreme reformist, which is not extreme enough | 10:38 |
| fenn | but he generally has the right idea | 10:38 |
| kanzure | people like to misunderstand him, even though his whole thing is him trying to distinguish himself from the open source movement | 10:38 |
| fenn | there is no "open source movement" | 10:38 |
| kanzure | osi? | 10:39 |
| fenn | that's an organization | 10:39 |
| kanzure | don't they promote the existence of "an open source movement"? | 10:39 |
| fenn | i suppose | 10:39 |
| fenn | Open Source Initiative was formed and chose the term open source, in Michael Tiemann's words, to "dump the moralizing and confrontational attitude that had been associated with 'free software' in the past and sell the idea strictly on the same pragmatic, business-case grounds that had motivated Netscape." | 10:40 |
| fenn | which is funny because netscape had to be dragged kicking and screaming, even though they were basically bankrupt | 10:40 |
| kanzure | wonder why rms chose 'free software' instead of something more googleable | 10:41 |
| fenn | google didnt exist in 1980 | 10:41 |
| fenn | besides, GNU is pretty googleable | 10:42 |
| kanzure | GNU is one particular free software project (er, umbrella) | 10:42 |
| kanzure | "The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system." | 10:42 |
| fenn | from stallman's point of view, software isn't free unless it's GPL :P | 10:42 |
| kanzure | huh gnu.org got a facelift | 10:43 |
| Phreedom | fenn: not so | 10:43 |
| fenn | Phreedom: fine, fine | 10:43 |
| fenn | LGPL | 10:43 |
| Phreedom | fenn: it's free if it satisfies some conditions | 10:43 |
| Phreedom | gpl is one of tools which make it possible | 10:43 |
| fenn | Phreedom: lawrence lessig is saying we should defend copyright because without it GPL would be unenforceable :( | 10:44 |
| kanzure | I like how gnu.org's philosophy page explains that they limit themselves to software because software is easier to copy than a chair | 10:44 |
| kanzure | "Free software is a matter of freedom: people should be free to use software in all the ways that are socially useful. Software differs from material objects—such as chairs, sandwiches, and gasoline—in that it can be copied and changed much more easily. These possibilities make software as useful as it is; we believe software users should be able to make use of them." | 10:45 |
| fenn | er, s/defend/not totally abolish/ | 10:45 |
| kanzure | sandwiches have just as many recipes as software | 10:45 |
| kanzure | why not call it "freedom software" ? | 10:48 |
| kanzure | or "freedom ware" :p | 10:48 |
| fenn | i guess we're stuck with "free-libre" and "free-beer" | 10:49 |
| fenn | good luck getting americans to say a foreign word | 10:49 |
| kanzure | huh these gnu.org pages are hard to read | 10:50 |
| kanzure | stallman sucks at writing as much as I do | 10:50 |
| fenn | no he is much better than you at writing | 10:50 |
| kanzure | http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html | 10:51 |
| kanzure | this page sucks | 10:51 |
| fenn | or maybe he just works on it more | 10:51 |
| fenn | why don't you like it? | 10:51 |
| kanzure | he goes on and on about how different the terms are without explaining the differences | 10:51 |
| kanzure | he draws up a few strawmen and says that the OSI isn't interested in the moral imperative of freedom | 10:52 |
| fenn | well, they aren't, according to the quote i just pasted | 10:52 |
| kanzure | was the source of the quote rms? | 10:52 |
| fenn | no it was michael tiemann | 10:53 |
| fenn | scroll up plz | 10:53 |
| kanzure | hah sorry I did scroll up to re-read it and totally neglected to see tiemann there | 10:54 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: well the difference is that open source cares about opening sources, while fsf cares about satisfying the criterias of free software | 10:54 |
| Phreedom | there are differences | 10:55 |
| Phreedom | tivoisation, patents and whatnot | 10:55 |
| kanzure | I have never, ever heard it like that, phreedom | 10:55 |
| kanzure | that "they care about .. opening sources" | 10:56 |
| fenn | some unscupulous businesses have taken OSI quotes and turned it around to mean just that | 10:56 |
| fenn | "look at us, we're cool and open source (and if you redistribute this code we'll kill you)" | 10:57 |
| * kanzure queues up the hounds for releasal | 10:57 | |
| Phreedom | BSD=open source | 10:57 |
| Phreedom | you can close the sources and patent algos | 10:58 |
| fenn | is BSD patented or tivoized? | 10:58 |
| fenn | can i redistribute, modify, and use BSD for whatever purpose? | 10:58 |
| Phreedom | fenn: you can, yes | 10:58 |
| fenn | so why not say BSD=Free software? | 10:59 |
| Phreedom | but it doesn't protect you from $SOME_EVIL_CORP doing nasty things | 10:59 |
| Phreedom | like tivoisation or simply withholding sources | 10:59 |
| Phreedom | eg I have a BSD formware in my router | 10:59 |
| Phreedom | but I can't modify it | 10:59 |
| fenn | you can't modify it? | 10:59 |
| fenn | because you don't have the source | 10:59 |
| fenn | so then it must not be "open source" | 10:59 |
| Phreedom | it's some BSD os | 10:59 |
| Phreedom | but it doesn't help me at all | 11:00 |
| fenn | i don't understand.. how is it open source if you don't have the source? | 11:00 |
| kanzure | "He did not miss the point of the Open Source movement. That movement does not say users should have freedom, only that allowing more people to look at the source code and help improve it makes for faster and better development." | 11:00 |
| Phreedom | it's open source which suddenly becomes closed source | 11:00 |
| Phreedom | there are no safeguards | 11:00 |
| fenn | well then it wasn't open source in the first place | 11:01 |
| Phreedom | fenn: you are arguing about semantics of words | 11:02 |
| Phreedom | which is not correct | 11:02 |
| fenn | if you don't have the source code then WTF is the point of all this word play | 11:02 |
| Phreedom | yes, this is a word play | 11:03 |
| Phreedom | we are talking about specific distribution/license terms | 11:03 |
| kanzure | no we're not | 11:03 |
| Phreedom | generally called open soruce and free software | 11:03 |
| Phreedom | one allows tivoisation, other tries to resist it as much as possible | 11:03 |
| kanzure | trivilozation? | 11:03 |
| fenn | kanzure: hardware lock-in to a specific binary compiled from ostensibly open source software | 11:04 |
| Phreedom | one ignores patents, other tries to keep patent troubles to a minimum | 11:04 |
| Phreedom | one allows closing of the sources, other doesn't | 11:04 |
| Phreedom | SPECIFIC terms | 11:04 |
| Phreedom | not some general meaning of words open and source | 11:05 |
| fenn | 'allows closing of the sources' doesn't seem very open source to me | 11:05 |
| fenn | you might as well make it public domain | 11:05 |
| kanzure | I think I'll stop using the word "open source" | 11:05 |
| kanzure | but "free software" is ungoogleable | 11:05 |
| fenn | kanzure: freedom of software, or free-libre | 11:05 |
| Phreedom | BSD = an attempt at making stuff public domain, while still forcing people to say who created it | 11:06 |
| Phreedom | yeah enlgish sucks in this area | 11:06 |
| Phreedom | most other languages have different words for free and free | 11:06 |
| kanzure | that's not the real issue, phreedom | 11:06 |
| kanzure | there's a difference between freedom and free | 11:06 |
| kanzure | freedom beer and free beer | 11:07 |
| kanzure | er | 11:07 |
| ybit | tada, english suceeds | 11:07 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: freedom source? eh? | 11:07 |
| ybit | 11:01 < Phreedom> most other languages have different words for free and free | 11:07 |
| ybit | 11:01 < kanzure> there's a difference between freedom and free | 11:07 |
| Phreedom | freedom is a noun | 11:07 |
| fenn | ffs just say "freedom of" | 11:08 |
| kanzure | fenn: I'm not trying to do word-play | 11:08 |
| Phreedom | which isn't and exact translation | 11:08 |
| kanzure | there's actually a subtle concept that isn't being conveyed | 11:08 |
| Phreedom | and->an | 11:08 |
| fenn | it's not word-play, it's a standard way of describing rights | 11:08 |
| Phreedom | XXX is freedom of software... doesn't sound good either | 11:09 |
| fenn | and has a bonus of evoking grade school brainwashing (at least in america) | 11:09 |
| kanzure | fenn: intentional proactionary acts of freedom | 11:09 |
| kanzure | s/of/for/ | 11:09 |
| fenn | "freedom of software movement"? | 11:10 |
| fenn | OMG | 11:10 |
| fenn | No results found for "freedom of software movement". | 11:10 |
| kanzure | heh | 11:10 |
| kanzure | "unfettered" | 11:17 |
| kanzure | "unclusterfucked" | 11:17 |
| fenn | any idea what this is about? 'The last straw was when the FSF started threatening open source software projects with lawsuits for the "crime" of being stretched too financially thin to reasonably comply with the onerous demands of the GNU General Public License.' | 11:21 |
| fenn | hmm this is interesting. see Q4 Q5 and Q6 http://www.mepis.org/node/10725 | 11:23 |
| kanzure | "unencumbered redistribution" | 11:25 |
| fenn | "pre-shaved yaks" | 11:28 |
| kanzure | ? | 11:28 |
| kanzure | what do you do once you get your yak shaved anyway? | 11:28 |
| fenn | it's on russ nelson's t-shirt (president of OSI for one week) | 11:28 |
| kanzure | do you herd them? | 11:28 |
| fenn | kanzure: whatever you were doing before you started shaving it | 11:28 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 11:28 |
| kanzure | heh is freedom anything more than the unfettered, unencumbered redistribution of pre-shaved yaks? | 11:29 |
| kanzure | i'm not asking a philosophical question | 11:30 |
| fenn | depends if you are considering the freedom of an individual or multiple individuals | 11:30 |
| kanzure | so an individual isn't a yak? | 11:30 |
| kanzure | or, what? | 11:30 |
| fenn | you know what yak shaving is right? | 11:30 |
| kanzure | yes | 11:30 |
| kanzure | I've been accused of yak shaving | 11:31 |
| fenn | well, freedom doesn't particularly have anything to do with receiving pre-shaved yaks | 11:31 |
| kanzure | doesn't it? | 11:31 |
| fenn | it's a byproduct | 11:31 |
| kanzure | pre-shaved yaks are a byproduct? | 11:32 |
| fenn | yep | 11:32 |
| fenn | there is no "wealth for all" movement as far as i can tell | 11:32 |
| kanzure | how could that be? pre-shaved yaks don't come from wooly yaks .. they come from yaks that know when they have the wolf's fur pulled over them. | 11:32 |
| fenn | you're confusing yaks with yak shavers | 11:33 |
| kanzure | er, what's the term for "being fooled" that involves a wolf and fur or something? | 11:33 |
| fenn | fleeced? | 11:33 |
| fenn | sheep shape | 11:33 |
| fenn | wolf of nine tails | 11:34 |
| kanzure | pulling the sheep's wool over the eyes | 11:34 |
| kanzure | wolf's in sheep clothing | 11:34 |
| fenn | that's so 1800's | 11:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/myth_stories/wolfsheep.html | 11:34 |
| fenn | yes i know. i just didn't want to say it first | 11:35 |
| kanzure | anyway, that might not be it | 11:35 |
| kanzure | yaks and yak shavers are not different imo | 11:35 |
| fenn | well i suppose "all is 1" if you get down to it | 11:35 |
| fenn | but as a practical matter, matter and energy are not equivalent | 11:36 |
| fenn | and neither are programs and programmers | 11:36 |
| fenn | maybe once you become an atomic programmer | 11:37 |
| kanzure | pre-shaved yaks are a byproduct of yak shavers. ok. but the yak shavers use pre-shaved yaks (tools) to shave the yaks anyway, or else they would be sued by the big bad civilization on the horizon. | 11:37 |
| kanzure | s/sued/shot/ | 11:37 |
| fenn | nature provides free yaks | 11:37 |
| * ybit wonders what's with all this yacking about yaks | 11:38 | |
| kanzure | my point is that 'freedom' actually just means the unencumbered redistribution of yaks (but it's most likely the pre-shaved ones will be redistributed more often) | 11:39 |
| kanzure | but I was asking fenn whether or not that made sense | 11:39 |
| kanzure | and he said freedom didn't have much to do with the receiving of pre-shaved yaks | 11:39 |
| fenn | i just thought it was a funny t-shirt | 11:40 |
| fenn | plenty of free software involves yak shaving | 11:41 |
| fenn | in fact it's almost the definition of software development | 11:41 |
| kanzure | er my point was to just get a better definition of 'freedom' than the vague nonsense that others tout all the time | 11:41 |
| kanzure | "without externally imposed restraints" | 11:42 |
| fenn | freedom is the ability to do whatever you want without fear of consequences | 11:42 |
| kanzure | ok, "without externally imposed threats" | 11:43 |
| fenn | sure | 11:43 |
| fenn | there's also stuff like "freedom from suffering" or "freedom of powered flight" or whatever | 11:44 |
| fenn | those might just be metaphors though | 11:44 |
| kanzure | yeah a lot of "rights" that people supposedly "have" are just political wishy-washy pieces of crap | 11:45 |
| fenn | "freedom of speech" really means "you won't be shot for saying whatever" | 11:45 |
| kanzure | which isn't true | 11:46 |
| fenn | er, "freedom of press" might have originally meant the same thing, but has come to mean something different | 11:46 |
| kanzure | you *will* be shot regardless of whether or not you have a "freedom of speech" | 11:46 |
| fenn | eh? | 11:46 |
| kanzure | a freedom of speech doesn't stop bullets | 11:46 |
| fenn | i mean "we won't shoot you" | 11:46 |
| fenn | and associated stuff like "we won't stand by and let someone shoot you, if reasonably possible" | 11:47 |
| fenn | like when worf spared whatsisname.. then the king was like "fine i'll just get your brother to do it instead" | 11:48 |
| fenn | i dont really know what that principle is called | 11:48 |
| kanzure | that klingon should have just killed both worf and his brother, klingons are supposed to be vicious like that | 11:49 |
| fenn | don't you know enterprise officers are invincible? | 11:49 |
| fenn | interesting map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reporters_Without_Borders_2008_Press_Freedom_Rankings_Map.PNG | 11:52 |
| fenn | Namibia is more free than US | 11:52 |
| kanzure | hah. "the declaration of unencumberence is where .. a person declares their unencumberence and accepts their freedom.' | 11:52 |
| kanzure | ok back to work with me | 11:53 |
| ybit | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4853015&Sku=TSD-1000EAVS | 12:02 |
| ybit | bkero: know of a better deal? you seem to be up on this kind of stuff :) | 12:02 |
| ybit | http://www.memorylabs.net/sebast721sa3.html :: that's not a bad deal: 1.5tb 32mb $120 | 12:04 |
| kanzure | 32mb cache? | 12:05 |
| ybit | yeah | 12:05 |
| kanzure | ybit: try this? http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-i-got-one-of-new-intel-ssds.html | 12:07 |
| kanzure | http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/mainstream/index.htm | 12:11 |
| kanzure | woah ridiculously expensive | 12:12 |
| kanzure | you might as well buy a tape drive | 12:12 |
| kanzure | "As of 2008, the highest capacity tape cartridges (Sun StorageTek T10000B, IBM TS1130) can store 1 TB of data without using compression." wtf? | 12:15 |
| kanzure | that's weak | 12:15 |
| kanzure | hell yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_library | 12:15 |
| kanzure | 10 cents per GB? wtf is this crap | 12:16 |
| ybit | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2145406&pagenumber=1&RSort=4&csid=ITD&recordsPerPage=5&body=#ReviewStart or http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4323601&pagenumber=1&RSort=4&csid=ITD&recordsPerPage=5&body=#ReviewStart | 12:19 |
| ybit | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605437&Sku=D162-1020 looks pretty | 12:20 |
| ybit | no eSATA port though | 12:21 |
| ybit | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3748369&RSort=4&csid=ITD&body=#ReviewStart | 12:23 |
| ybit | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4146240&RSort=4&csid=ITD&body=#ReviewStart | 12:24 |
| ybit | and maybe lastly http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4143852&RSort=4&csid=ITD&body=#ReviewStart | 12:25 |
| kanzure | can you make magnetic tape with polystyrene or boPET polyester, gamma ferric oxide, chromium dioxide, organic resin ? | 12:27 |
| kanzure | hrm | 12:27 |
| kanzure | iron oxide was used in the 1950s for half-inch magnetic tape | 12:27 |
| kanzure | heh bits per inch | 12:27 |
| ybit | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2005/12/linux-20051218.ars/ :: Fish: the fridnly interactive shell. | 12:29 |
| ybit | Fish: the friendly interactive shell | 12:29 |
| ybit | Tired of those same old shells? Linux.Ars has an in-depth look at fish, a GPLed command-line shell for Linux and other Posix-like system. Also, Developers Corner looks at new Javascript features in Firefox 1.5. | 12:29 |
| ybit | Last updated December 18, 2005 8:00 PM CT | 12:29 |
| kanzure | huh there's such a thing as "magnetic ink" | 12:30 |
| kanzure | er, used for tapes I mean | 12:30 |
| kanzure | not e-ink stuff | 12:30 |
| kanzure | "This screenshot shows fish flagging a misspelled option for ls. fish also flags such errors as mistyped files, command names and mismatched parenthesis." | 12:32 |
| fenn | i didn't like fish.. don't remember why | 12:38 |
| fenn | hmm thats sorta lame | 12:40 |
| fenn | shows prompt as ~/c/s/doc> | 12:40 |
| fenn | but typing cd ~/c<tab>s<tab>doc won't actually get you there | 12:40 |
| draz|lab | rofl | 12:41 |
| draz|lab | bits per inch | 12:41 |
| fenn | help launches a browser in fish? wtf | 12:43 |
| fenn | ok that's enough of that | 12:44 |
| bkero | ybit: Just saw your post | 12:46 |
| bkero | ybit: You can get better ones for cheaper on newegg | 12:46 |
| bkero | and you don't have to deal with tigerdirect :) | 12:46 |
| ybit | fenn: /me wasn't advocating switching to fish, it just had some nice ideas to implement in your own shell (zsh ftw) | 12:52 |
| ybit | www.pricewatch.com is nice also, just in case nobody here knew about it.. | 12:54 |
| fenn | froogle works pretty well if you aren't trying to squeeze out the last penny | 13:06 |
| fenn | <- allergic to bullshit | 13:06 |
| bkero | Hehe fish | 13:19 |
| bkero | I remember using pricewatch back in middle/high school | 13:19 |
| bkero | Nowadays I just use newegg if it's around the cheapest price | 13:19 |
| bkero | Either that or zipzoomfly | 13:19 |
| CIA-31 | skdb: fenn * r 50d0ae1 /geom/geom.py: fix move_shape and point_shape so coordinate_arrows works | 13:25 |
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| ybit | wtf. who, why. i will bop them on the head for this! | 13:47 |
| ybit | guess i should bop myself on the head for closing the emacs session | 13:48 |
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| kanzure | huh the people on the phone at nsf are actually helpful | 13:50 |
| ybit | oh that reminds me | 13:51 |
| kanzure | they transferred me to this guy: | 13:51 |
| kanzure | http://www.nsf.gov/staff/staff_bio.jsp?lan=ghazelri&org=CMMI&from_org=CMMI | 13:51 |
| ybit | need to call the phs | 13:51 |
| kanzure | that page is somewhat worth reading btw | 14:02 |
| kanzure | "Manufacturing Maps: A New Math Model for 3-D Tolerance Analyses in Process Planning, CMM Inspection and Statistical Process Control" | 14:11 |
| fenn | "education had utterly destroyed his abilities to do engineering design. So he figured that, if he couldn't do design, the next best thing would be to teach it." anyone else see the problem in this logic? | 14:23 |
| kanzure | hah! | 14:23 |
| fenn | note to self: order of gp_Trsf.Multiply() statements do indeed matter | 14:27 |
| kanzure | do you run up or down the tree? re: Transform.run() | 14:28 |
| fenn | why do you say run instead of walk? | 14:29 |
| kanzure | walk is fine | 14:30 |
| fenn | the algo is wrong too | 14:30 |
| fenn | you have to multiply by each node along the way, not just the root nodes | 14:31 |
| fenn | er leaf nodes | 14:31 |
| * fenn squints at it | 14:32 | |
| -!- kardan__i is now known as kardan | 14:33 | |
| kanzure | I'm not convinced anyone gets funded via unaffiliated grants | 14:35 |
| fenn | i never said they did | 14:35 |
| fenn | why get_children()? | 14:36 |
| kanzure | recursion | 14:37 |
| fenn | why return_list = copy(self.children) | 14:37 |
| fenn | the way i'd do this is apply(self.Multiply, self.walk) | 14:38 |
| fenn | s/walk/walk()/ | 14:38 |
| fenn | s/Multiply/Multiplied/ | 14:39 |
| fenn | also i dont think it's the transform that's a tree | 14:40 |
| fenn | the connections form a tree (actually a graph but i'm too lazy for that right now) | 14:41 |
| kanzure | what the hell is apply() | 14:42 |
| kanzure | the connections do not form a tree because parts are connected, but that doesn't mean that the CAD has to be rotated in a particular way | 14:43 |
| kanzure | the connections do form a tree, but not the same one | 14:43 |
| fenn | sorry, map() not apply() | 14:43 |
| fenn | well a particular single transformation sure as hell isn't a tree | 14:44 |
| kanzure | yeah it's just a node | 14:44 |
| fenn | so why is it a tree? | 14:44 |
| kanzure | because a transform is built on top of other transforms | 14:45 |
| kanzure | you apply the transform separately | 14:45 |
| kanzure | don't you? | 14:45 |
| fenn | right now? | 14:45 |
| kanzure | what? | 14:45 |
| fenn | trouble parsing "don't you?" | 14:45 |
| kanzure | oh | 14:45 |
| kanzure | um, "because of OCC, right?" | 14:45 |
| fenn | are you asking the right way to do things or the way it currently works? | 14:46 |
| kanzure | I think OpenCASCADE transforms only work when you do one thing at a time | 14:46 |
| kanzure | and thus why I made a little tree dealy | 14:46 |
| fenn | all transforms work that way | 14:46 |
| * fenn abandons this conversation and returns to writing code | 14:48 | |
| kanzure | huh unaffiliated individuals might be able to apply for NSF equipment grants | 14:48 |
| fenn | there's no particular reason universities should be preferred, it's just that supposedly they are cheaper than doing it on your own | 14:48 |
| fenn | because they provide facilities and so on | 14:48 |
| draz|lab | ok, gel is running | 15:01 |
| kanzure | huh I'm getting a check for $0.01 from a brokerage account | 15:09 |
| draz|lab | they really value you | 15:10 |
| draz|lab | it's like seinfeld, 100 checks for .40$ | 15:10 |
| kanzure | what would happen to the economy if everyone wrote checks for only pennies at a time? | 15:11 |
| kanzure | er, when the paper becomes more valuable than the numbers written on them | 15:12 |
| ybit | hmm.. is it possible to get ahold of anesthetic agents if i'm not a doctor?.. | 15:14 |
| CIA-31 | skdb: fenn * r 88ca5cd /paths.py: nothing to see here. move along, citizen. | 15:16 |
| CIA-31 | skdb: fenn * r 4cacce9 /doc/todo/TODO: typo | 15:16 |
| CIA-31 | skdb: fenn * r 4af0d74 / (5 files in 3 dirs): transform is a verb. transformation is a noun. | 15:16 |
| ybit | it might be near impossible for a hackerspace to implant an mea in a mouse if ya aren't allowed to use the required tools | 15:16 |
| fenn | like a mouse | 15:16 |
| CIA-31 | skdb: fenn * r 1ee4ac1 /paths.py: missed a few | 15:19 |
| ybit | gettong this stuff isn't difficult. not sure why i forgot about co2's effects wearing off, if given in an appropriate dosage | 15:24 |
| kanzure | fenn: many anesthetic agents traditionally come from plants | 15:29 |
| kanzure | no clue about "modern" anesthetics however | 15:29 |
| ybit | Avertin is made by mixing equal amounts of tribromyl ethyl alcohol and tertiary amyl alcohol, then diluted to 2.5% in water or saline. Avertin has toxic degradation products, therefore, only a freshly mixed solution should be used. The 2.5% solution must be stored at 4?C in the dark. The pH of the 2.5% solution must be above 5. | 15:31 |
| ybit | http://labanimals.cwru.edu/Anesthesia%20and%20Analgesia%20for%20Mice.htm | 15:31 |
| kanzure | you can get a mouse from a local breeder | 15:32 |
| kanzure | however you should check their living arrangements before purchasing a batch of mice from whoever | 15:32 |
| kanzure | this is usually how high school psych teachers do it apparently | 15:32 |
| kanzure | the NSF guy called me back and explained how ridiculously screwed I was | 15:33 |
| kanzure | he even drew me a probability distribution curve | 15:33 |
| kanzure | something about less than a 1e-5 chance | 15:33 |
| kanzure | he was actually quite a friendly guy | 15:34 |
| kanzure | but it's easy to be friendly when delivering ungood news | 15:34 |
| fenn | what if you were affiliated with a nonprofit | 15:34 |
| kanzure | even then | 15:34 |
| fenn | why? | 15:34 |
| kanzure | he recommended "the small business" sector | 15:35 |
| fenn | hmm. | 15:35 |
| kanzure | basically he said that unaffiliated individuals essentially means "people with three nobel prizes" | 15:35 |
| kanzure | "and they happen to also be retired" | 15:35 |
| kanzure | s/sector/division of NSF/ | 15:35 |
| fenn | people with three nobel prizes have honorary positions at 20 universities | 15:35 |
| kanzure | no kidding | 15:35 |
| kanzure | how does that work anyway? | 15:36 |
| kanzure | fenn, I nominate you for an honorary position at the University of Asspirates | 15:36 |
| fenn | reputation currency or something | 15:36 |
| fenn | we asspire to surprise sexcellence | 15:36 |
| ybit | i bet that's going to be an interesting email "hi i'm unaffiliated with a university and was interested in the legality of euthanizing mice. kthnxbye" | 15:40 |
| ybit | s/email/voicemail | 15:40 |
| kanzure | you should probably call other countries, to be honest | 15:41 |
| ybit | if all else fails, put the research on a motherf'n boat | 15:41 |
| kanzure | some agency in england :p | 15:41 |
| ybit | "stupid americans" | 15:41 |
| fenn | why would brick.interfaces[0] be of type "function transformed in module geom.geom" | 15:49 |
| fenn | (transformed is the name of the function) | 15:49 |
| fenn | huh | 15:50 |
| kanzure | why is an interface a function? | 15:50 |
| fenn | from geom import *; print i | 15:50 |
| fenn | well it still doesn't explain why 'Direction' object has no attribute 'x' | 15:51 |
| kanzure | I have no idea what you are talking about | 15:52 |
| kanzure | can you please just tell us what you do that generates the problems? | 15:52 |
| fenn | nein! | 15:52 |
| kanzure | um | 15:53 |
| CIA-31 | skdb: fenn * r db133e8 /paths.py: why doesnt this work? | 15:54 |
| kanzure | why doesn't what work | 15:54 |
| kanzure | gah | 15:54 |
| kanzure | contextless angry comments about code are useless | 15:55 |
| fenn | do 'git show' to get just that commit | 15:55 |
| kanzure | just because you modified a certain section of code doesn't mean it's the topic of your complaints | 15:55 |
| fenn | what else would i be talking about? | 15:56 |
| kanzure | how the hell do I know? | 15:56 |
| kanzure | that's why I asked | 15:56 |
| fenn | you look at the diff | 15:56 |
| fenn | just run it plz | 15:56 |
| fenn | then repeat the same steps by hand in bpython and note any differences | 15:56 |
| kanzure | what same steps? | 15:56 |
| fenn | it's probably something i should have seen by now | 15:57 |
| kanzure | is it test_transformation()? | 15:57 |
| fenn | yeah | 15:57 |
| kanzure | finally | 15:57 |
| fenn | when you run paths.py test_transformation gets called automatically | 15:57 |
| fenn | why would i be complaining about something totally different from what i modified in the file? that doesn't make any sense | 15:58 |
| fenn | oh btw i just discovered how to do an interactive shell with bpython | 16:01 |
| kanzure | yeah? | 16:01 |
| fenn | from paths import display | 16:01 |
| kanzure | what about it? | 16:01 |
| kanzure | are you sure it updates teh display? | 16:01 |
| kanzure | because it's porbably just the one where you move it over the window and it freezes | 16:01 |
| kanzure | or it steals context if you do display.start_display() | 16:01 |
| fenn | it opens up a blue window and i can do display.DisplayShape(blah) | 16:01 |
| kanzure | does it steal context? | 16:02 |
| fenn | no | 16:02 |
| fenn | it changes the window focus but meh | 16:02 |
| kanzure | if you move a window over it, and then off of it, does it still show? | 16:02 |
| kanzure | doesn't look like it | 16:02 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with the ipython interactive shell? | 16:03 |
| fenn | the window grays out but you can still add stuff to it with display.DisplayShape | 16:03 |
| kanzure | um | 16:03 |
| kanzure | doesn't happen with ipython | 16:03 |
| fenn | or display.Repaint() | 16:03 |
| fenn | i hate ipython | 16:03 |
| kanzure | is there a way to call a method every n time-units? | 16:03 |
| fenn | you could spawn a thread but i don't know much about that | 16:04 |
| kanzure | in javascript there's a way | 16:04 |
| kanzure | no, I just want to call a method every 5 seconds, or something | 16:04 |
| fenn | while True; os.sleep(5); blah() | 16:04 |
| kanzure | no | 16:04 |
| fenn | no yourself | 16:04 |
| kanzure | do you know javascript? | 16:04 |
| fenn | no | 16:04 |
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| fenn | i gotta go | 16:04 |
| kanzure | http://www.w3schools.com/js/js_timing.asp | 16:05 |
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| ybit | waiting to hear back from http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ScienceResearch/default.htm | 16:15 |
| ybit | could take up to two days to hear back, kanzure, what were you asking the nsg guy about? | 16:16 |
| ybit | nsf* | 16:16 |
| kanzure | about the mention of "unaffiliated individuals" in the nsf grant docs | 16:17 |
| ybit | getting a grant while not being affiliatd with a uni? | 16:17 |
| kanzure | because frankly it seemeed weird | 16:17 |
| kanzure | since nobody ever ever talks about it | 16:17 |
| ybit | so who are those unaffiliated individuals? | 16:17 |
| kanzure | people with three nobel prizes | 16:17 |
| ybit | what about someone who dominates in # of responses to email lists ;) | 16:18 |
| kanzure | ? | 16:18 |
| ybit | you sending lots of emails, meh. | 16:19 |
| ybit | Phreedom: what's with you using quassel? | 16:19 |
| ybit | how dare you abandon ship of the kde efforts ;) | 16:19 |
| ybit | i probably shouldn't tell the lady who asks where do you plan on obtaining anesthetic agents "from my local drug dealer of course, but don't anyone" | 16:23 |
| ybit | +tell | 16:24 |
| ybit | bobke: howdy, who are you? | 16:25 |
| ybit | hi mason-l | 16:25 |
| bobke | hody, fine thnx | 16:25 |
| bobke | did you find out i use quassel too? :) | 16:25 |
| ybit | good, goood.. now who are you affiliated with, and if you are unaffiliated, do you have 3 nobel prizes? | 16:26 |
| bobke | i'm unaffiliated :) | 16:26 |
| ybit | with 3 nobel prizes? | 16:27 |
| * ybit crosses fingers | 16:27 | |
| bobke | alas | 16:27 |
| bobke | nope | 16:27 |
| ybit | rats and turtles | 16:27 |
| ybit | so what is your interest and what is that you do? | 16:27 |
| bobke | i'll take a screen of what i'm doing | 16:27 |
| ybit | and how come i've never seen you until now, i ask myself | 16:28 |
| ybit | it better not be anything sexually oriented toward my mum | 16:28 |
| ybit | i wouldn't do anything to you, i'd probably just have a hard time talking to you afterward | 16:28 |
| kanzure | ybit: are you high | 16:29 |
| kanzure | why not apply this energy to skdb? | 16:29 |
| bobke | haha | 16:29 |
| kanzure | git clone http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb.git | 16:29 |
| bobke | http://users.telenet.be/portaal/critterding2-10.png | 16:29 |
| ybit | heh, no. but i do have some wonderful bread being digested by my stomach right now.. and some pineapple orange juice | 16:29 |
| ybit | i am installing ncache atm | 16:29 |
| ybit | and mostly talking | 16:29 |
| kanzure | bobke: weird stats bar to the left | 16:30 |
| bobke | gkrellm? | 16:30 |
| ybit | http://sourceforge.net/projects/critterding/ | 16:30 |
| bobke | yes | 16:30 |
| ybit | bobke: so what is this for? | 16:31 |
| bobke | it's a toy i'm playing with | 16:31 |
| ybit | hey it's better than sports | 16:31 |
| bobke | the point is to evolve critters that show interesting behaviours | 16:32 |
| ybit | do you play with the code any? | 16:32 |
| bobke | of course, it's mine | 16:32 |
| bobke | right now i'm trying to get the bodyparts from intersecting | 16:33 |
| kanzure | hm display.Repaint() doesn't work | 16:39 |
| kanzure | oh, nevermind | 16:39 |
| kanzure | wx.CallLater() doesn't work, then. | 16:39 |
| kanzure | ybit: honestly the mice are the last step :p | 16:40 |
| ybit | ah, so you wrote the little program. neato. sorry, i was afk, kanzure brought down the whip and made me start working | 16:40 |
| kanzure | ybit: get to work on your microcontroller designs | 16:40 |
| kanzure | damn right I did | 16:40 |
| kanzure | back to work! | 16:40 |
| ybit | :P | 16:40 |
| bobke | haha | 16:41 |
| ybit | ncache 2.3 won't compile with nginx version newer then 0.7.43 it seems | 16:59 |
| ybit | so, so sad | 16:59 |
| kanzure | doesn't seem to do anything: http://wiki.wxpython.org/Timer | 17:00 |
| -!- draz|lab is now known as drazak | 17:03 | |
| fenn | wah. why aren't there debs for pythonOCC yet? | 17:11 |
| kanzure | probably because we're the only two losers using it | 17:12 |
| ybit | nginx, itself, can be used as a caching proxy | 17:14 |
| ybit | maybe i'm jumping ahead of myself setting this up since i don't even have a method of extracting relevant text from pages of interest | 17:17 |
| kanzure | having it cache data gives you incentive to do something with the data | 17:18 |
| fenn | kanzure: you broke it! | 17:18 |
| fenn | much better | 17:18 |
| kanzure | had to crab a 70kb xmms dependency | 17:19 |
| fenn | xmms? | 17:19 |
| * kanzure nods | 17:20 | |
| kanzure | had it on leibniz:/mnt/maxtor/software/ | 17:20 |
| * ybit wonders where xpathBrowser.js is | 17:26 | |
| bobke | maybe on hitler:/seagate ? | 17:27 |
| bobke | sry :) | 17:27 |
| drazak | nah, that's only if you're running windows 7 | 17:30 |
| kanzure | huh? I'm using an old version of "mv"? how is that possible | 17:34 |
| ybit | it's highly simple to extract the data with twill | 17:34 |
| ybit | xpathextract <dataName> <xpath> | 17:34 |
| kanzure | twill? | 17:34 |
| ybit | mv hasn't moved along? *comedy drums* | 17:35 |
| kanzure | looks like it doesn't support javascript | 17:35 |
| kanzure | http://blog.ianbicking.org/twill-in-javascript.html | 17:36 |
| fenn | wow.. hitler != leibniz by along shot | 17:36 |
| ybit | yeah, i just read some dev saying it doesn't support it | 17:37 |
| kanzure | ybit: but twill in javascript means you could just append it to the page as it loads in uzbl/webkit | 17:37 |
| kanzure | (like in greasemonkey) | 17:38 |
| kanzure | wtf copy doesn't have a "don't ever overwrite" option? | 17:39 |
| kanzure | only an interactive thing? bah | 17:39 |
| kanzure | cp -p -i * /somewhere/ | yes "no" | 17:40 |
| kanzure | this is bogus | 17:40 |
| fenn | agreed | 17:40 |
| fenn | oh nm. -n, --no-clobber: do not overwrite an existing file (overrides a previous -i option) | 17:41 |
| kanzure | I have no "-n" option | 17:42 |
| kanzure | what version? | 17:42 |
| kanzure | cp (GNU coreutils) 6.10 | 17:42 |
| kanzure | "Written by Torbjorn Granlund, David MacKenzie, and Jim Meyering. | 17:43 |
| kanzure | that's it, Torbjorn: it's gnu hunting season. | 17:43 |
| fenn | 7.4 | 17:43 |
| kanzure | wtf wtf | 17:43 |
| kanzure | well I guess it's kind of pointless now | 17:46 |
| kanzure | but: http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=703 | 17:46 |
| ybit | you could try using setopt if you're using zsh | 17:46 |
| ybit | setopt noclobber | 17:47 |
| ybit | ** | 17:47 |
| fenn | ybit: why are you using zsh? | 17:47 |
| kanzure | er, more direct link: http://imgbin.org/images/703.png | 17:48 |
| kanzure | ok, have 7.4-2 now | 17:48 |
| * fenn wonders if kanzure took his medication today | 17:49 | |
| kanzure | yes, but it's long past its effective reach | 17:49 |
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| ybit | fenn: mostly because it's pretty | 17:49 |
| fenn | could you provide some example of how it's different from bash? | 17:50 |
| fenn | non-trivial example | 17:51 |
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| kanzure | wait wtf | 17:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: why didn't you catch me on this one | 17:51 |
| kanzure | piping into "yes"? | 17:51 |
| kanzure | what the *fuck* | 17:51 |
| fenn | i didnt think that was real code | 17:52 |
| fenn | so apparently there is a "yes" command? that's obnoxious | 17:52 |
| fenn | but there's no "no" command | 17:54 |
| kanzure | affirmative | 17:54 |
| fenn | maybe there's a "maybe" that randomly alternates between y and n | 17:54 |
| kanzure | wonder if you can pass a null pointer to "yes" | 17:55 |
| fenn | in bash? | 17:56 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:56 |
| * ybit really needs some type of bell for this channel.. | 17:56 | |
| fenn | ybit ybit ybit ding ding ding | 17:57 |
| ybit | http://www.unumu.com/docs/oreilly/unix3/korn/appa_08.htm look at A.8.2. Completion and if you get a chance, run autoload -U compinit | 17:57 |
| ybit | compinit | 17:57 |
| kanzure | coreutils replacement: http://www.busybox.net/about.html | 17:57 |
| fenn | you dont want to use busybox unless you have to | 17:58 |
| ybit | also run promptinit to get a full listing of some more mods, | 17:58 |
| kanzure | fenn: bad experiences? | 17:58 |
| fenn | it's just not as comfy | 17:58 |
| ybit | zsh makes it easy to extend the prompt, its like weechat for shells | 17:58 |
| fenn | kanzure: no man pages for example | 17:58 |
| kanzure | wtf? | 17:58 |
| ybit | and with zsh, you can tab complete to a man page you forgot what you were manning in the first place | 17:58 |
| fenn | busybox is designed for embedded systems and boot disks | 17:58 |
| ybit | http://friedcpu.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/zsh-the-last-shell-youll-ever-need/ | 18:03 |
| fenn | $ man ba | 18:03 |
| fenn | baby barchart basename | 18:03 |
| fenn | is that not normal bash functionality? (i have bash-completion installed everywhere) | 18:03 |
| kanzure | works for me. | 18:04 |
| ybit | ubuntu? | 18:04 |
| kanzure | debian | 18:04 |
| ybit | that's typical bash_completion | 18:05 |
| ybit | i think most of the major cases for or against a shell aren't really worth mentioning, i think it's what you are comfortable with, the rest can be scripted | 18:05 |
| fenn | well it basically just looks exactly the same except for some minor differences, but everyone uses bash so why change | 18:06 |
| ybit | just like vim vs. emacs, you find solutions to your problems.. if vim doesn't have an equivalent of gnus, you use something like mutt (if you want to avoid emacs) | 18:06 |
| kanzure | fenn: you're talking with a gentoo user.. | 18:06 |
| fenn | i assume there must be some reason it's still around besides just "what i've always used" | 18:06 |
| fenn | they can't be serious | 18:07 |
| fenn | The multiline command editor makes composing small scripts on the command line much easier then just having one line to edit with. | 18:07 |
| ybit | kanzure: soon to be exherbo | 18:07 |
| ybit | did kanzure steal the topic from #madscientists? :) | 18:09 |
| kanzure | 06:47 -!- Topic for #madscientists: Welcome to #madscientists, a channel for science enthusiasts, sane and otherwise! Please keep maniacal laughter to a resonable level. The operator is Greg Courville, a.k.a. enginuitor, reachable at Greg_Courville@GregLabs.com ... | 18:09 |
| fenn | enginuitor was never particularly angry | 18:09 |
| kanzure | http://www.exherbo.org/ | 18:10 |
| kanzure | I like the "Why exherbo is not for you" section | 18:10 |
| fenn | YAFLD | 18:10 |
| ybit | angry/mad, it's almost a play on free and freedom | 18:10 |
| ybit | excuse me, freedom of* | 18:10 |
| kanzure | there's a difference | 18:11 |
| ybit | or non-shaven yaks | 18:11 |
| fenn | bearded yaks? | 18:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: non-fatty acid liver disease? | 18:11 |
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| ybit | in the nude, free loving hippy yaks | 18:11 |
| kanzure | no, NOT in the nude | 18:11 |
| fenn | yet another fine linux distro | 18:11 |
| kanzure | sarcasm? | 18:12 |
| fenn | "There’s no guarantees that the packages we provide work properly." | 18:12 |
| fenn | so, basically, there's absolutely no point in using this? | 18:12 |
| ybit | if you're dumb, yeah | 18:13 |
| kanzure | "don't use this ever" is a really good way to keep people away | 18:13 |
| ybit | kind of smart on their part, because in the beginning it is a lot easier not to worry about the userbase | 18:14 |
| fenn | they should have called it VaporWare | 18:14 |
| ybit | the ones who won't contribute | 18:14 |
| ybit | heh | 18:14 |
| ybit | hmm..twill.js | 18:15 |
| kanzure | cp -vprn is my new friend | 18:15 |
| fenn | why -n? | 18:16 |
| kanzure | no clobber | 18:17 |
| fenn | but what if you want to clobber | 18:17 |
| kanzure | I don't. | 18:17 |
| fenn | hm | 18:17 |
| * kanzure gets out his clobbering hammer | 18:17 | |
| fenn | the sledge-o-matic | 18:18 |
| ybit | don't! don't do it man, what have the naked yaks ever done to harm you | 18:18 |
| ybit | "The latest release of twill is twill 0.9, released Thursday, December 27th, 2007;" | 18:20 |
| ybit | now that's what i call active development | 18:20 |
| ybit | did anyone ever get around to reading "Large-scale Simulation of Neuronal Systems" | 18:21 |
| ybit | trying to determine if it's worth my time | 18:21 |
| kanzure | remind me again where you mentioned it? | 18:22 |
| ybit | i don't know if i did or if any of you did | 18:22 |
| ybit | not sure where it came up | 18:22 |
| kanzure | you should just install NEURON or GENESIS or pGENESIS and get on with it | 18:22 |
| kanzure | for some reason all of these lame packages have names in all caps | 18:22 |
| kanzure | 3sh was apparently a shell that bootstrapped itself | 18:26 |
| kanzure | and was also an assembler, or something | 18:26 |
| kanzure | jay freeman apparently. | 18:26 |
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| ybit | current page: http://localhost/twill_js/test.html | 19:00 |
| ybit | >> fv 0 age 10 | 19:00 |
| ybit | ERROR: no matching forms! | 19:00 |
| ybit | anyone want to test for the same prob? | 19:00 |
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| ybit | it's form 3, but even that's giving the same prob | 19:03 |
| * ybit does a strace | 19:03 | |
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| flamoot | "An oil-filled transformer exploded at the Sayano-Shushenskaya power plant in Siberia, destroying three turbines and bringing down the ceiling of the turbine hall, which then violently flooded. The dam itself did not sustain any damage. It is unclear how many people were killed, but with 12 confirmed deaths and as many as 64 still missing (all presumed dead), this is a serious incident. | 19:07 |
| flamoot | "damn" | 19:07 |
| flamoot | http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/08/18/1916211/Fatal-Explosion-At-Russian-Hydroelectric-Dam | 19:07 |
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| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/twill_js_giving_problems.png | 19:14 |
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| ybit | I have this web page that has JavaScript on it, and my Mech program doesn't work. | 19:36 |
| ybit | That's because WWW::Mechanize doesn't operate on the JavaScript. It only understands the HTML parts of the page. | 19:36 |
| kanzure | right | 19:36 |
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| ybit | so what scraper does handle js? | 19:38 |
| kanzure | htmlunit, but it's not a scraper | 19:38 |
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| kanzure | ybit: why do you need javascript support? | 19:42 |
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| kanzure | in the case of XMLHttpRequests being made, you can fake those requests (if you already know what they are) | 19:42 |
| ybit | i dunno, i didn't think much of it.. some websites have the content hidden in js, so i just figured it made sense to have js support | 19:44 |
| kanzure | heh youtube has an api with python examples? http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/overview.html | 19:44 |
| ybit | need to something like grep js site1.html | wc ; repeat | 19:47 |
| ybit | from bookmarks... just to see exactly what the worst case we may be dealing with.. | 19:47 |
| kanzure | the solution is to start making scrapers and a good scraping interface | 19:48 |
| ybit | or.. not and just tweak the code as the crapwraps comes in | 19:48 |
| kanzure | and then people will start contributing it | 19:48 |
| kanzure | pyscholar never did get a good class structure | 19:51 |
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| fenn | i'm thinking skdb.load_package should do load_data() as well, and we can have some other function to load just the metadata | 20:19 |
| drazak | kanzure: hey arnold | 20:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: sounds fine | 20:20 |
| drazak | kanzure: did you get the idea for your domain name from the show hey arnold | 20:22 |
| fenn | does it really take >64 people to run a power plant? | 20:23 |
| fenn | "we need them on-site so they'll be there in case anything goes wrong" | 20:24 |
| drazak | lolol | 20:24 |
| kanzure | someone just searched for "spherical capacitor" and somehow got to heybryan.org | 20:26 |
| kanzure | drazak: no | 20:26 |
| kanzure | drazak: although I did watch it at cici's pizza once | 20:26 |
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| kanzure | "Selective aluminum passivation for targeted immobilization of single DNA polymerase molecules in zero mode waveguide nanostructures Korlach et al" | 20:27 |
| kanzure | it's also interesting to see which papers people are searching for, or something | 20:28 |
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| fenn | http://graphics.cursor.org/archivistan.jpg | 20:38 |
| kanzure | is this a real place? :/ | 20:42 |
| fenn | in the grim future | 20:42 |
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| kanzure | http://webworkerdaily.com/2009/08/18/want-to-manage-twitter-in-your-crm-system-try-curecrm/ | 21:44 |
| kanzure | emil launched | 21:44 |
| ybit | emil? | 21:46 |
| ybit | http://www.emilnet.org/scripts/home/publigen/content/templates/show.asp?L=EN&P=252&vticker=news,110,Training Activities&ITEMID=2 ? | 21:47 |
| kanzure | no, emil gilliam | 22:01 |
| * ybit shrugs | 22:04 | |
| ybit | closest thing related to this channel: http://transhumanistwiki.com/wiki/Emil_Gilliam | 22:04 |
| ybit | http://foresight.org/ | 22:05 |
| ybit | http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23998/?a=f :: How to Forecast Malicious Internet Attacks :: http://arxiv.org/pdf/0908.2007v1 | 22:08 |
| kanzure | ybit: he used to hang out in #sl4 in 2002 | 22:26 |
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