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| Utopiah | regarding previous discussion on a standard research format, I guess the pharma industry won't let that, especially with public experiment data, happen ( watching http://www.onlinedocumentaries4u.com/2009/08/money-talks.html that made me think of that) | 04:44 |
|---|---|---|
| Utopiah | can't even get a standard citation format anyway :/ | 04:45 |
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| kanzure | Utopiah: bibtex is a suitable standard citation format | 07:19 |
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| Utopiah | yep and dominating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_reference_management_software#Import_file_formats | 07:50 |
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| kanzure | whois goonie? | 09:12 |
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| kanzure | should an instruction object be a list of strings representing each step (for the human readable version)? or should it be a list of objects that can be called to generate those strings? | 09:42 |
| fenn | i imagine you'd go through one to get the other | 09:44 |
| fenn | second one sounds more flexible | 09:45 |
| kanzure | yes but then I get into this fishy issue where I know that, say, one step is to align two objects into some relative position | 09:47 |
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| kanzure | does this mean I need an Alignment step object? | 09:47 |
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| fenn | OO doesn't work with instructions really | 09:48 |
| fenn | you want an alignment function (method really) | 09:48 |
| fenn | robot.align(stuff) | 09:48 |
| fenn | human.align(stuff) | 09:48 |
| kanzure | yes but you're not supposed to care if it is a robot or not | 09:48 |
| kanzure | Align.robot() | 09:48 |
| kanzure | er | 09:49 |
| fenn | no | 09:49 |
| kanzure | Align.tool(robot) | 09:49 |
| fenn | no | 09:49 |
| fenn | bad programmer | 09:49 |
| fenn | no wonder you hate OO | 09:49 |
| fenn | objects should correspond to physical objects | 09:49 |
| kanzure | robot.align is better | 09:49 |
| kanzure | but why should "align" be a function? | 09:50 |
| kanzure | we want a function for every possible step? | 09:50 |
| fenn | yes, then it's a simple mapping from protocol to functions to output | 09:50 |
| fenn | what else would instructions be for? | 09:50 |
| fenn | list of nouns != instructions | 09:50 |
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| kanzure | human.push() and robot.push() might work in some instances, but when you have a weird tool, "push" might be an ambiguous command .. but not ambiguous to the human object | 09:55 |
| kanzure | so that's why this seems kind of confusing to me | 09:55 |
| kanzure | doesn't seem optimal | 09:55 |
| fenn | try: agent.push(); except StupidityError: human.push() | 10:02 |
| fenn | why would it be ambiguous? | 10:03 |
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| kanzure | because maybe the machine doesn't have a "push" but instead has these weird servo arm mechanisms that don't quite "push" but could be used to push | 10:13 |
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| kanzure | assembly instructions are not quite the same thing as manufacturing instructions I guess | 10:43 |
| fenn | they are | 10:45 |
| fenn | you can split it up any way you want | 10:45 |
| kanzure | machining some metal doesn't follow the same form as assembling two legos | 10:45 |
| fenn | what do you mean 'follow the same form'? | 10:47 |
| fenn | they're both procedures with parameters | 10:47 |
| kanzure | so what if they are procedures? | 10:47 |
| fenn | machine this block with this tool, connect this block to this block | 10:47 |
| kanzure | what actually matters are the tools used to do stuff | 10:47 |
| fenn | procedure is how you tell the agent what to do | 10:48 |
| kanzure | there isn't necessarily an agent | 10:48 |
| fenn | where agent in {human, collection of robots} | 10:48 |
| kanzure | is a kinematic linkage a robot? | 10:48 |
| fenn | of course there's an agent | 10:48 |
| fenn | ok say you have a stamping press | 10:48 |
| fenn | someone has to set up the press right? even if it just runs automatically | 10:49 |
| kanzure | that's a one time setup (hopefully) | 10:49 |
| fenn | they also have to feed it metal, and stop it when it's done | 10:49 |
| kanzure | ok? | 10:49 |
| kanzure | all of the previous 'research' on assembly instructions only considers things being mated together | 10:50 |
| fenn | well, yeah, it's lame | 10:50 |
| fenn | welding is not generally considered "assembly" i guess | 10:51 |
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| fenn | is gluing ever considered "assembly"? | 10:54 |
| fenn | fwiw OCC recognizes these names http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11_color_names | 10:57 |
| kanzure | sure what about gluing school project models? | 10:57 |
| fenn | that's "craft" not assembly | 10:57 |
| kanzure | craft =~ crap? | 10:57 |
| fenn | i didn't say it :) | 10:57 |
| fenn | igraph is weird but i can't think of a better way to do stuff so i guess i like it | 11:00 |
| drazak_ | kanzure: who the fuck is eugen? | 11:05 |
| kanzure | eugen is my alter german ego | 11:05 |
| kanzure | http://eugen.leitl.org/ | 11:05 |
| kanzure | he worked on a mind uploading device back in the late 90s | 11:05 |
| kanzure | currently trying to set up a mobile cryogenics lab | 11:06 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20080203123957/http://minduploading.org/research.html | 11:06 |
| kanzure | nematode upload project "A collaboration led by Eugene Leitl. Its aim is to achieve the 3D reconstruction and functional emulation of individual specimens of C.elegans from scanned images of the vitrified original. " | 11:07 |
| kanzure | data: http://web.archive.org/web/20070814044636/minduploading.org/research/data.nematodeupload.html | 11:07 |
| parolang | If it helps any, cutting is a different operation than assembling, and both are rather abstract operations and are both involved in manufacturing. You might want to overload the subtraction and addition operators to represent cutting and assembling, respectively. | 11:22 |
| parolang | (Or if you don't like to call gluing parts together "assembly" you can use "combining" instead.) | 11:25 |
| kanzure | why aren't there any papers on automatically generated instructions for more than assemblies? | 11:31 |
| kanzure | I mean, more than part mating | 11:31 |
| kanzure | there's a field of "process planning" but that's usually just trying to figure out what operations to use | 11:32 |
| kanzure | not necessarily how to represent those operations or anything | 11:32 |
| kanzure | ah maybe "construction" should be the operative keyword here | 11:34 |
| kanzure | IIRC, there's a journal called "Automation in Construction" | 11:35 |
| fenn | parolang: we've had this discussion many times.. i don't think overloading + and - is worthwhile. they don't contain enough information to do anything useful | 11:45 |
| parolang | Alright. I thought I was saying something new :) I think I'm just fond of the kind of operator overloading of boolean logic, and thought this was a natural extension of that. | 11:47 |
| fenn | alright why can't i run any OCC GUI stuff now | 12:27 |
| fenn | raise "Please set the CSF_GraphicShr environment variable." | 12:27 |
| fenn | TypeError: exceptions must be classes or instances, not str | 12:27 |
| fenn | i understand the error but i don't know why i never got it before | 12:27 |
| fenn | weird. | 12:29 |
| kanzure | ['align interface stud along the mating axis defined by interface anti stud', 'push anti stud with 10 N along Vector(0.0, 1.0, 0.0)'] | 12:31 |
| kanzure | CSF_GraphicShr just randomly became unset? | 12:31 |
| kanzure | is it set to anything? echo $CSF_GraphicShr | 12:31 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: kanzure * r c5f601d /doc/proposals/techniques.py: some really bad OOP for treating techniques as objects and spitting out instructions | 12:35 |
| fenn | at least it's in doc/proposals/ so i can just ignore it :) | 12:39 |
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| kanzure | it works doesn't it? | 12:46 |
| kanzure | what's so bad about it? | 12:46 |
| * kanzure questions the existence of the witch of agnesia | 12:50 | |
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| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/connection_graph.png | 13:24 |
| drazak_ | kanzure: so eugen is cool if a little impolite seeming? | 13:24 |
| drazak_ | kanzure: I basically just pasted a protocol from current protocols in molecular biology to the mailing list, oh well | 13:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: what does that png show? | 13:38 |
| kanzure | yes eugen is "cool" | 13:39 |
| kanzure | ok sorry didn't see the other side of the image | 13:42 |
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| kanzure | after analyzing genehacker's timeout log, i've concluded that he has absolutely no pattern whatsoever in his class schedule | 14:16 |
| fenn | timeout is usually just bad wifi | 14:21 |
| fenn | or is it because he's closing his laptop or something? | 14:21 |
| kanzure | he's closing his laptop | 14:23 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r d1c4eb5 /geom/geom.py: mate_connection should have no side effects | 14:26 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r ddc9e3a / (core/interface.py paths.py): start tracking the connection graph | 14:26 |
| kanzure | why are you dumping graphviz instead of yaml? | 14:31 |
| fenn | yaml sucks at graphs, you said so yourself | 14:42 |
| kanzure | are we really sure we want packages to save their data in graphviz? | 14:42 |
| fenn | no | 14:42 |
| fenn | i just havent figured out a good way to do it yet | 14:42 |
| fenn | bricks don't have identifiers is part of the problem | 14:43 |
| kanzure | maybe we should give them better names | 14:43 |
| fenn | the names are fine | 14:43 |
| kanzure | a name isn't an identifier? | 14:43 |
| fenn | you can have multiple instances of each brick | 14:44 |
| fenn | to make a graph you have to refer to the instance | 14:44 |
| kanzure | right | 14:44 |
| fenn | python has a hash function, so.. | 14:44 |
| fenn | uh, it's different for every instance | 14:44 |
| fenn | or we could just trust yaml to keep track of its pointers | 14:44 |
| kanzure | I tried dumping graphs in yaml before | 14:44 |
| kanzure | and it just looked ugly | 14:44 |
| kanzure | but it worked | 14:45 |
| kanzure | not like I know anyone who modifies graphs by hand anyway | 14:45 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r 2aa4a1b / (geom/geom.py paths.py): move coincidence_fixer from paths to geom, only connect compatible interfaces | 14:46 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r a266c7d / (core/part.py geom/geom.py): go away | 14:46 |
| fenn | igraph isn't yaml-friendly at all | 14:48 |
| fenn | i guess i could just save all the positions and then detect coincidences :P | 14:53 |
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| kanzure | heh the guy who made haas' first product has a wikipedia user account: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kurt_Zierhut | 15:44 |
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| kso512 | hi | 15:50 |
| kanzure | hey kso512 | 15:51 |
| kso512 | hiya... saw you over on #austin, read some of your site, and am interested in this whole "apt-get sandwich" idea... | 15:55 |
| kso512 | not sure how i can help, but i have experience with linux & circuit design... interested in fabbing ideas | 15:56 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r 33a08db /gui/gui.py: colored interface arrows | 15:56 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r 4d185f8 /core/interface.py: igraph del_part | 16:05 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r d0df82d / (geom/geom.py paths.py): try to detect mismatched interfaces. doesnt work yet | 16:05 |
| kanzure | kso512: that's great :) | 16:08 |
| kanzure | fenn just committed some code to that btw | 16:08 |
| kanzure | I'm sitting around on the couch in the automated design lab | 16:08 |
| fenn | dunno why i didn't think of it before.. i can sort the xyz coordinates of interfaces, then compare only those in a certain set of slices | 17:00 |
| xp_prg | I think I am going to die, Drew Endy may come to my DIYBIO meeting at the Tech Shop!!! | 17:01 |
| fenn | i hope he slaughters you | 17:02 |
| xp_prg | it would be my honor to be slaughtered by him | 17:03 |
| * xp_prg places his neck on the chopping block for Drew Endy | 17:04 | |
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| ybit | grrs i want a full cad file for a car | 17:37 |
| ybit | a cad file with all car parts*.. | 17:38 |
| ybit | http://72.22.64.51/cgi-bin/csupload/CSUpload.cgi?database=Cars%203D.db&command=viewupload&id=null maybe... | 17:39 |
| ybit | it is occ 6.3 being used in skdb, si? | 17:49 |
| fenn | yes because that's what pythonOCC wants | 18:13 |
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| fenn | that's a lotta smoke http://www.wildfiretoday.com/storage/post-images/Station_Fire_2.jpg http://www.wildfiretoday.com/storage/post-images/Smoke_Map_8-31-2009.jpg | 19:21 |
| drazak_ | kanzure: didn't you rattle on one day about TCMS? | 19:47 |
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| kanzure | drazak_: yes? | 19:53 |
| kanzure | drazak_: sorry, I already replied to that email | 19:54 |
| genehacker | does anyone know if peptide microarrays are good for anything? | 19:56 |
| kanzure | peptide affinity? | 19:57 |
| genehacker | what's that? | 19:58 |
| kanzure | figuring out what sticks to peptides | 19:58 |
| genehacker | ok | 19:58 |
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| genehacker2 | and NPPOC protected peptosynthesis might be easier than DNA synthesis | 19:59 |
| kanzure | why do you want to do peptosynthesis? | 19:59 |
| genehacker2 | well possibly for synthesizing antibodies for proteins we want | 20:01 |
| genehacker2 | possibly for testing if something is present in a sample | 20:01 |
| genehacker2 | also for lulz | 20:01 |
| genehacker2 | it would allow us to test if that maskless lithography thing works | 20:02 |
| kanzure | how about a microscope | 20:03 |
| genehacker2 | that's what I want to test | 20:04 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.evitamins.com/product_grid2.asp?catID=49 | 20:06 |
| genehacker2 | wonder if these are pure enough or cheap enough to consider using... | 20:06 |
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| genehacker2 | hmmm.... | 20:32 |
| genehacker2 | going to mars is expensive because of the cost of getting a heavy spaceship with rad shielding into orbit | 20:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | use a damned comet :-/ | 20:33 |
| katsmeow-afk | it will supply you with water on the way | 20:33 |
| genehacker2 | yeah | 20:34 |
| katsmeow-afk | use a hunk of the moon, there's enough mass there to spare some | 20:34 |
| genehacker2 | or use a ram accelerator, whatever it's called to shoot the shielding into orbit | 20:35 |
| genehacker2 | after all ramaccelerators aren't really suitable for humans | 20:35 |
| katsmeow-afk | the olde Orion project, but use neutron bombs | 20:35 |
| genehacker2 | hardly practical for shooting sats anyway | 20:36 |
| kanzure | How about you build the shielding in orbit? | 20:36 |
| kanzure | what the fuck is wrong with you people? | 20:36 |
| genehacker2 | but water or some other form of rad shielding | 20:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | didn't i say that? | 20:36 |
| genehacker2 | from what? | 20:36 |
| kanzure | katsmeow-afk: yes but you're not a person | 20:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | [20:28] <katsmeow-afk> use a damned comet :-/ | 20:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | [20:29] <katsmeow-afk> it will supply you with water on the way | 20:36 |
| kanzure | yes but nobody listens to you | 20:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | [20:29] <katsmeow-afk> use a hunk of the moon, there's enough mass there to spare some | 20:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | my appologies | 20:37 |
| kanzure | :) | 20:37 |
| kanzure | no worries. nobody listens to me either. | 20:37 |
| genehacker2 | the ram accelerator thing is one of the cheapest options | 20:37 |
| kanzure | cheap doesn't matter IMHO. you get a lot of benefit for being able to do manufacturing in space. | 20:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | i don't think i would | 20:37 |
| genehacker2 | taking out hunks of moon requires building an accelerator on the moon | 20:37 |
| kanzure | also why would you pay for the moon? | 20:37 |
| kanzure | no, you wouldn't have to build an accelerator | 20:38 |
| kanzure | you don't need an accelerator to dig on the earth do you? | 20:38 |
| genehacker2 | yeah you don't | 20:38 |
| genehacker2 | you want to assemble ships in orbit | 20:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | the moon is a much smaller gravity well | 20:38 |
| genehacker2 | from hunks of moon | 20:38 |
| genehacker2 | you need to get those hunks of moon in orbit somehow | 20:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | no, you wanna assemble the rad shield from hunks of moon | 20:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | not the ship itself | 20:39 |
| genehacker2 | that requires going to the moon | 20:39 |
| genehacker2 | a prohibitively expensive option | 20:39 |
| genehacker2 | though I wonder | 20:39 |
| genehacker2 | if there is enough junk up there in orbit to make a simple radiation shield | 20:39 |
| genehacker2 | or at least something semi useful | 20:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | the current space station will be junk in 10 yrs, use it | 20:40 |
| genehacker2 | good idea | 20:40 |
| katsmeow-afk | i gotta afk some more, this level of afk isn't enough, bbl | 20:41 |
| genehacker2 | hell why not put the shuttle fuel tank into orbit | 20:41 |
| genehacker2 | it wouldn't take much | 20:41 |
| genehacker2 | I forget the exact figure | 20:42 |
| kanzure | I need more torrents | 20:42 |
| genehacker2 | but if one get's it going just a bit faster at the drop off point we could put one in orbit | 20:42 |
| kanzure | any suggestions? | 20:42 |
| genehacker2 | you lucky bastard | 20:43 |
| genehacker2 | I can't torrent | 20:43 |
| genehacker2 | but I can suggest some good stuff that might be worth torrenting | 20:43 |
| genehacker2 | what do you want to torrent? | 20:43 |
| kanzure | I just need some trackers | 20:43 |
| genehacker2 | would you like a legal torrent to a good videogame? | 20:44 |
| genehacker2 | damn | 20:46 |
| genehacker2 | shuttle tank weighs 26,500 kg and is made of mostly a lightweight aluminium lithium alloy | 20:47 |
| genehacker2 | http://spacestudiesinstitute.wordpress.com/space-art/ssi-sample-slides/ | 20:49 |
| genehacker2 | here it is | 20:49 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.astronautix.com/craft/stsation.htm | 20:51 |
| genehacker2 | paper here | 20:51 |
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| ybit | http://tangible.media.mit.edu/projects/ :: Tangible Bits is our vision of Human Computer Interaction (HCI) which guides our research in the Tangible Media Group. | 21:34 |
| kanzure | tell smari :) | 21:44 |
| kanzure | ironically fablab is technically a part of the media lab | 21:45 |
| kanzure | so he should know about that (or at least hypothetically know about that) | 21:45 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/rss/torrents/ | 21:46 |
| kanzure | there's some porn torrent trackers in there, fyi | 21:46 |
| kanzure | I parsed a list of torrent trackers and their rss feeds, so there's bound to be all sorts of stuff in there | 21:47 |
| kanzure | haven't looked at it all yet | 21:47 |
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| kanzure | does anyone remember how to rip mms streams? | 22:48 |
| genehacker2 | mms? | 22:48 |
| kanzure | mms://coe-jaguar-video.engr.utexas.edu/mediasitevideo50/13e474ea-d54e-43df-a4ab-568978846c97.wmv?playbackTicket=5a1d99a2a6a544cd939aee7bd16fed90 | 22:48 |
| kanzure | yes | 22:48 |
| kanzure | aha | 22:48 |
| kanzure | mplayer mms://url -dumpstream -dumpfile foo.wmv | 22:48 |
| genehacker2 | why are you dumping to .wmv? | 22:49 |
| kanzure | doesn't matter | 22:49 |
| kanzure | anyway, that's how you download class videos | 22:49 |
| genehacker2 | for a class you're taking? | 22:52 |
| genehacker2 | heh | 22:52 |
| genehacker2 | at least you don't have a DRM'd textbook | 22:52 |
| kanzure | so the trick seems to be: | 22:53 |
| kanzure | grep for the link that has FileServer in it | 22:53 |
| kanzure | go to that page | 22:53 |
| kanzure | grep for the link that has "mms://" in it | 22:53 |
| kanzure | then fuck the utexas server | 22:53 |
| genehacker2 | btw if you can write me a program that prints 2 pages at a time into a pdf and then prints the next page I'll give you a cookie | 22:54 |
| genehacker2 | from the DRM'd book | 22:54 |
| kanzure | I don't understand what you want | 22:54 |
| kanzure | prints 2 pages? | 22:54 |
| kanzure | so, prints into a console? | 22:54 |
| genehacker2 | the book only lets me print 2 at a time | 22:54 |
| genehacker2 | annoying for a human but not for a program | 22:55 |
| -!- superkuh [n=hukrepus@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:57 | |
| -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-62-60.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 23:34 | |
| -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-62-60.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:35 | |
| genehacker | interesting | 23:37 |
| genehacker | the color camer in my laptop is 640 X480 | 23:37 |
| genehacker | and the image quality isn't crap | 23:38 |
| genehacker | yet it's small enough to consider putting into ar glasses | 23:39 |
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