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| flamoot | http://www.boners.com/grub/811686.html monster face | 00:53 |
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| deviantlarva | hi, me, again^^ | 02:08 |
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| dira | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB_l7SY_ngI&feature=fvst | 02:58 |
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| deviantlarva | yeah, intersting | 03:37 |
| deviantlarva | hi btw dira | 03:37 |
| dira | hey deviantlarva | 03:44 |
| drazak | kanzure: doI mind if I link to one of your books on heybryan on the diybio list? | 06:36 |
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| kanzure | drazak: no | 08:35 |
| dira | kanzure , how is the 3D thing going ? | 08:36 |
| kanzure | i don't know what you are asking about | 08:37 |
| dira | collision detection to be exact | 08:38 |
| kanzure | fenn rewrote it to use occ's bounding box methods, seems to work ok for now | 08:38 |
| dira | so what is the next step ?automated engineering ? | 08:39 |
| kanzure | a few different projects | 08:42 |
| kanzure | one, to compute a number that represents the "compatibility" of a design using particular parts and components | 08:42 |
| kanzure | two, an algorithm for converting from point clouds to boundary representations or bezier splines-- you can see the progress in skdb/import_tools/surf.py | 08:42 |
| kanzure | three, some unit tests for graphsynth, and eventually integrating the graphsynth Node class into an assembly graph representation for parts in skdb. you can see the graphsynth progress over at: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/thirdparty/graphsynth.py | 08:43 |
| kanzure | you can see the code for point clouds to breps over here: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/import_tools/surf.py | 08:44 |
| dira | I see | 08:44 |
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| dira | kanzure: I assume you've already seen this but just to make sure , http://ldd.lego.com/ | 09:47 |
| dira | + Microsoft robotic studio and Virtual Work Benches in general | 09:48 |
| dira | including , virtual chemistry lab or even virtual medical training kits | 09:52 |
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| fenn | dira: ldd is actually pretty sophisticated, i'm impressed | 10:25 |
| dira | although such systems without proper HCI device are hard to work with | 10:25 |
| fenn | oh i've seen much worse | 10:26 |
| dira | :) don't tell me you are mechanical engineer ? | 10:27 |
| fenn | meh | 10:27 |
| fenn | i've done my fair share of 3d modeling | 10:28 |
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| dira | the worst type of modeling systems are mechanical systems , then civil engineering systems and after that architecture | 10:29 |
| dira | I see | 10:29 |
| fenn | dunno why you say they are the worst | 10:30 |
| dira | based on details and oddness of particles , in modeling of building you rarely face particles inside each other , components are integrated and well defined , but in mechanical engineering , one particle might include hundreds of sub-particles with special materials and mechanical state | 10:32 |
| fenn | that's just because architects don't care about details for some reason | 10:32 |
| fenn | if i turned in a general idea of a sketch for an engine, you'd be pissed | 10:33 |
| fenn | but for some reason that's okay with buildings | 10:33 |
| dira | I'm talking about Civil engineering too, they don't need details too , at least as deep as mechanical sketches | 10:34 |
| fenn | well that's just crap | 10:34 |
| dira | I've been into modeling (more like simulation) of physical systems , applying Quantum mechanics (simplified) to system of particles , since formula and situation is well defined that is easy too, so I guess , mechanical modeling is the worst case ;) | 10:37 |
| dira | unless you give me an example... | 10:37 |
| fenn | biological modeling is harder | 10:39 |
| dira | ah , never thought of that, good example | 10:39 |
| dira | I've seen some medical training kit simulating surgery ! | 10:40 |
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| fenn | sure but i think they just start off with a data set | 10:41 |
| fenn | they don't actually model the growth process | 10:41 |
| dira | I cannot believe in their accuracy but even thinking about modeling hearth pumping and all those breathing effects is hard ! | 10:42 |
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| dira | *heart | 10:42 |
| dira | I just get into an idea , is it possible to create HCI able to simulate resistance or tension of virtual items ? like when you reach wall in virtual world , it stops you from going further ? | 10:46 |
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| dira | because that's critical in virtual engineering using HCI while working with particles , when you want to pickup a brick in real world , your fingers keep closing until they sense the resistance (touching surface of brick). | 10:51 |
| fenn | yes that's called a haptic interface | 10:51 |
| * dira is googling the phrase | 10:52 | |
| fenn | there's even a consumer device, the novint falcon | 10:52 |
| dira | useful link ? | 10:52 |
| fenn | i don't know much about their use in CAD and 3d modeling | 10:53 |
| fenn | it's mostly just "VR" whatever that meanss | 10:53 |
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| fenn | genehacker: check this out http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/lego_digital_designer | 11:54 |
| genehacker | cool | 11:59 |
| genehacker | now get a robot to assemble them | 12:00 |
| genehacker | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/lego_digital_designer | 12:00 |
| genehacker | oops | 12:00 |
| genehacker | http://fora.tv/2009/05/30/Rodney_Brooks_Remaking_Manufacturing_With_Robotics | 12:00 |
| fenn | too bad it's proprietary | 12:00 |
| fenn | why do people keep linking to that? | 12:00 |
| fenn | damn, worm gears don't work | 12:02 |
| dira | that logo software even generates catalog indicating each action step by step to create the total image | 12:07 |
| dira | so it is easy to create one robot ;) | 12:07 |
| genehacker | ???? | 12:08 |
| kanzure | there's something called 'parametric action representation' or something which could potentially be used for step-by-step task generation, however i'm not so sure yet | 12:09 |
| dira | I'm sure it does the same job | 12:09 |
| dira | they use it in their mindstorm website for robotic competitions | 12:10 |
| dira | you just need to build robot to able to execute each operation like rotating , pushing and ... | 12:12 |
| dira | you can even use LDD to build that robot :p | 12:12 |
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| dira | a little off topic : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Robotics_Developer_Studio | 12:29 |
| dira | support lego/NXT mindstorm too , beside its physix engine to support physical simulation based on defined models | 12:29 |
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| kanzure | so? | 12:32 |
| kanzure | it's microsoft.. | 12:33 |
| dira | eh , M$'s | 12:33 |
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| any99506369 | plausable deniability inherent in ordering cognitive inhancement pills online "sorry, i don't remember ordering those, and i never got them" | 13:09 |
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| kanzure | here's the transcript from paredis' talk today at UT: | 14:50 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/talks/2009-09-16-paredis-utexas.html | 14:50 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://www.modelica.org/libraries/Modelica/releases/3.1/ModelicaStandardLibrary_v3.1_build4.zip/at_download/downloadableFile/at_download/downloadableFile | 14:56 |
| kanzure | line 2126 and onward show some equations for a linear spring damper | 14:58 |
| kanzure | er sorry I guess you'd need to know which file I was looking at | 15:00 |
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| kanzure | "PyMbs is a Python library for modelling holonomic multibody systems. It is able to generate simulation code for Python, Modelica and Matlab." | 15:07 |
| kanzure | http://sourceforge.net/projects/pymbs/ | 15:07 |
| kanzure | simulink, scicos, ptolemy, modelica | 15:11 |
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| jonathan__ | ping | 15:14 |
| kanzure | hello | 15:14 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: | 15:14 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/talks/2009-09-16-paredis-utexas.html | 15:14 |
| kanzure | just got done with that talk today | 15:14 |
| kanzure | hope you liked yesterday's rothemund transcript | 15:14 |
| jonathan__ | "The "diagram" is not a model." well that's good | 15:16 |
| kanzure | this is "buzzword soup" | 15:16 |
| kanzure | our lab already implements most of this | 15:16 |
| kanzure | just without the buzzword soup | 15:17 |
| kanzure | also there was another talk yesterday from schlumberger .. http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/talks/2009-09-15-schlumberger.html | 15:19 |
| kanzure | fenn: is it useful to have the components of simple linkages in skdb even though they don't actually correspond to anything physical other than basic chunks of materials? | 15:22 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: what's up? | 15:26 |
| jonathan__ | workin on the robotics module to OO it | 15:27 |
| kanzure | btw, yaml supports lists | 15:27 |
| kanzure | or "sequences" | 15:28 |
| kanzure | do you have any experience with modelica? | 15:28 |
| jonathan__ | never heard of it | 15:29 |
| kanzure | i've been ignoring it for a while | 15:29 |
| jonathan__ | looks like vhdl kind of | 15:29 |
| jonathan__ | these days I dont want to use something unless 10,000 people are also using it. otherwise it's too niche | 15:30 |
| kanzure | unfortunately that's hard to tell on the net | 15:31 |
| jonathan__ | yaml has a lot of complex power | 15:31 |
| jonathan__ | I like the references the best | 15:32 |
| kanzure | you mean pointers? | 15:32 |
| jonathan__ | whatever they call the &thing | 15:32 |
| kanzure | ah yeah | 15:32 |
| jonathan__ | and the *thing | 15:32 |
| kanzure | yes it's nice | 15:32 |
| kanzure | i wish it would work across multiple documents though | 15:32 |
| kanzure | that would absolutely blow my mind | 15:32 |
| jonathan__ | a bio guy sent me his java framework for a specific bio robot program. He used xml. totally unreadable and yucky | 15:33 |
| kanzure | (at the moment it just crashes if it can't find what's being referenced) | 15:33 |
| kanzure | yep | 15:33 |
| kanzure | the other day I wrote an xml2yaml app thingy | 15:33 |
| kanzure | however, it sucks | 15:33 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/import_tools/del_repo/repo_to_yaml.py | 15:33 |
| jonathan__ | I dunno what's up with these CS guys, they always create these abnormally complex languages | 15:34 |
| kanzure | it doesn't construct lists/sequences, doesn't use pointers, etc. | 15:34 |
| kanzure | yes | 15:34 |
| kanzure | UML seems to be a case of that | 15:34 |
| kanzure | the guy who presented today is a big fan of UML, | 15:34 |
| kanzure | but he's doing the same thing that ADL is doing | 15:34 |
| kanzure | except we're somehow doing it without as much bloat | 15:34 |
| kanzure | although graphsynth, sadly, also uses bloatware/xml to represent graphs | 15:34 |
| jonathan__ | no one in industry uses UML. bring it up in a design meeting and people will laugh or stare blankly. it's useless | 15:34 |
| kanzure | well that's what I thought | 15:35 |
| kanzure | but apparently there are still people using it? | 15:35 |
| kanzure | like, for code generation? wtf | 15:35 |
| jonathan__ | well, for meaningless code like widgets, ok | 15:35 |
| kanzure | heh :) | 15:35 |
| kanzure | i've almost always used code generation for gui stuff | 15:35 |
| kanzure | but that's about it | 15:35 |
| kanzure | except experimenting with SWIG once or twice. don't kill me :( | 15:35 |
| jonathan__ | or database query languages etc. it is a pain to write that stuff by hand | 15:35 |
| kanzure | check this out: | 15:36 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/sysml/ | 15:36 |
| kanzure | this was apparently at a conference that matt campbell (the lab pi) went to the other week in san diego | 15:36 |
| kanzure | it's pretty bad | 15:36 |
| jonathan__ | uh | 15:36 |
| jonathan__ | basically the rule is, if you want people to use i, make it easy. & thats not easy | 15:37 |
| kanzure | apparently they use all these graphical diagram editors and don't like writing code any more | 15:37 |
| kanzure | but anyway. i agree it's a terrible idea. | 15:37 |
| jonathan__ | plenty of academia is geared towards "invent super cryptic thing so that I can be the expert and publish it" etc | 15:38 |
| kanzure | oh that's the trick is it? | 15:38 |
| kanzure | why didn't i think of that | 15:38 |
| jonathan__ | if they like graphical, why not use labview's language already | 15:38 |
| kanzure | can you show me some of what your code is capable (or not capable) of? | 15:38 |
| kanzure | you're doing it in perl, right? | 15:38 |
| kanzure | if it was python i'd ask for a session demo | 15:39 |
| jonathan__ | right now it's all broken since I am moving to OO | 15:39 |
| kanzure | camelpoop? | 15:39 |
| jonathan__ | I will post a video once it is done | 15:39 |
| jonathan__ | the manufacturer tech support isnt being quick about providing low level device commands either so right now I'm only doing movement | 15:40 |
| kanzure | what's your connection interface? | 15:40 |
| jonathan__ | the commands are string commands for their s/w, or active-x for their newer s/w - most people use visual basic to do similar things but only specific robot tasks | 15:41 |
| jonathan__ | thus none of their code is re-usable beyond a specific lab problem | 15:41 |
| kanzure | isn't there something for windows called "hyperterminal" that can help you listen for the strings that are being sent? | 15:42 |
| jonathan__ | i.e. spend months creating s/w framework and all it does is 1 experiment | 15:42 |
| kanzure | it's been so long since i last used windows. is it hyperterminal that i'm thinking of? | 15:42 |
| jonathan__ | hyperterminal doesnt do that, but it's not so much a question of getting the commands, more like decoding them | 15:42 |
| kanzure | it comes pre-installed on windows98 or something | 15:42 |
| kanzure | i see | 15:42 |
| kanzure | well i'd hope that they have this plaintext stream | 15:43 |
| kanzure | but that's unlikely i guess | 15:43 |
| jonathan__ | D1,OV420P30M0R | 15:43 |
| kanzure | hah | 15:43 |
| jonathan__ | means, aspirate to well #7 | 15:43 |
| kanzure | well that sucks | 15:43 |
| jonathan__ | ha, I sent a very simple email to the tech support and they replied: "what's perl? I have not come across that before" | 15:44 |
| kanzure | you should make them pay you the privledge of letting them give you answers to your questions that they counterquestion. | 15:44 |
| kanzure | er, wait | 15:44 |
| kanzure | there's a joke somewhere in there.. sorry. | 15:44 |
| jonathan__ | yea | 15:47 |
| jonathan__ | except, they hold the proprietary docs, so got to be nice | 15:47 |
| jonathan__ | I did reply something like "surprising since it is the #1 language in bioinformatics" or something, ha | 15:48 |
| kanzure | true that | 15:49 |
| jonathan__ | it's been going back & forth for about 2 mos. now. tech support is always this way. first ask, then they say "do it the simple way". then tell them that isnt powerful enough, then they say "try it the simple way again".. etc.... until finally they break | 15:49 |
| kanzure | tech support actually talks to you? | 15:49 |
| kanzure | are they under some sort of legal obligation? | 15:49 |
| kanzure | how does this work | 15:49 |
| jonathan__ | ha | 15:51 |
| jonathan__ | the customer (ut lab) pays a lot of $$$ for support contract | 15:51 |
| jonathan__ | support contract says stuff like: "must respond to all email within 72 hours" etc | 15:51 |
| jonathan__ | which means, they can reply "Got your email will discuss with the internal team" or etc of course | 15:52 |
| kanzure | hah! "learn perl regular expressions within 72 hours, go!" | 15:52 |
| kanzure | bwahah | 15:52 |
| jonathan__ | then they assign a tracking ID to the issue for reference, it goes in their database, and on their side if they have ID's open too long, their managers complain to them | 15:52 |
| jonathan__ | etc | 15:52 |
| jonathan__ | i.e. support issue that is open >2 weeks will send automatic email to the regional boss who will hammer the support team "why isnt this resolved???" etc | 15:53 |
| jonathan__ | which of course leads to the habit of support personell who artificially close the support ticket with stuff like, "this should help you, let me know if it doesnt, I am closing this ticket now" etc | 15:54 |
| jonathan__ | kind of dismissive | 15:54 |
| jonathan__ | it depends on the company | 15:54 |
| jonathan__ | I think all undergrads should do at least 6 mos as tech support somewhere. great problem solving skills. | 15:54 |
| kanzure | hm, that would depend actually | 15:55 |
| jonathan__ | "IT" is the worst of course. IT guys never give support tickets or follow up. lame. | 15:55 |
| kanzure | i bet in many cases they would lose brain cells | 15:55 |
| kanzure | because a lot of tech support call centers just have a knowledge management system | 15:55 |
| fenn | i learned regex in << 72 hours | 15:55 |
| kanzure | and you go through the routines | 15:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: wtf? | 15:55 |
| jonathan__ | there's a lot of levels to tech support | 15:55 |
| jonathan__ | front line, sure, follow the internal databse | 15:56 |
| jonathan__ | closer to the tier1 customers, each problem gets more unique and there is skill involved | 15:56 |
| kanzure | i hope so. that would renew some faith in commercial tech support. | 15:56 |
| jonathan__ | forces the basics... too many postdocs go for these crazy solutions to problems like "I know! We can use UML and XML and a graphical blah blah blah"... ugh, just get it to work command line first | 15:57 |
| jonathan__ | the question is: "which regex". sysv ok simple. gnu, more stuff & more annoying. perl, uhhh I doubt i | 15:57 |
| fenn | i actually liked the whole SysML idea once it was explained properly | 15:58 |
| jonathan__ | perl re is ridiculously powerful/complex | 15:58 |
| kanzure | the implementation is totally wrong | 15:58 |
| fenn | i still don't think it _needs_ to be graphical as the UML people seem to think | 15:58 |
| kanzure | a lot of it is very similar to matt's work | 15:58 |
| jonathan__ | it needs a graphical paperclip guy like microsoft word | 15:58 |
| fenn | kanzure: do you know how to run a different python with bpython? 2.5 vs 2.6 | 15:59 |
| kanzure | #bpython will | 15:59 |
| kanzure | i don't | 15:59 |
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| drazak | I swear to god the next person that emails me to start a pissing contest, I'm going to smite | 16:18 |
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| jonathan__ | I think I'm going to refactor the diybio faq | 16:48 |
| jonathan__ | split up into smaller sections | 16:48 |
| jonathan__ | ha, see the biosci spam? "MicroRNA Clunkers Program. Economic Crisis affecting your microRNA research? Exiqon is here to help. Trade in your clunker. " | 16:55 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: that's ok but last time you totally mangled it :) | 17:13 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ | 17:13 |
| kanzure | ok new sections seem fine to me | 17:14 |
| jonathan__ | considering everyone seems to want to "do stuff" its funny there is a lack of faq on "doing stuff" | 17:24 |
| kanzure | yeah :( | 17:24 |
| jonathan__ | even simple stuff like computational i.e. blast | 17:25 |
| kanzure | bioperl and biopython are really, really easy to use | 17:25 |
| kanzure | hm i wish i had more time to explore the parametric action representation research | 17:29 |
| kanzure | they have these methods of automatically generating service manuals for different machines | 17:29 |
| kanzure | apparently the airforce has funded much of this research | 17:29 |
| kanzure | in particular for the maintenance of jets | 17:29 |
| kanzure | which is pretty much what skdb is going towards | 17:30 |
| kanzure | lemme grab some pretty diagrams | 17:30 |
| kanzure | hm this is taking a while to upload | 17:31 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/instructions.zip | 17:49 |
| kanzure | ok added the images | 17:51 |
| kanzure | adl.serveftp.org/papers/instructions/ | 17:51 |
| kanzure | er, http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/instructions/ | 17:51 |
| kanzure | for instance: http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/instructions/Virtual%20humans%20for%20validating%20maintenance%20procedures.pdf.1.png | 17:52 |
| kanzure | of course, 3D isn't that important to me | 17:53 |
| jonathan__ | looks like ikea | 17:53 |
| kanzure | but in skdb you already have the models so it's not a big deal | 17:53 |
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| kanzure | jonathan__: isn't ikea a car company? | 17:54 |
| kanzure | oh you mean for furniture | 17:54 |
| kanzure | dunno what's going on with the skeletons though | 17:55 |
| kanzure | kind of gruesome if you ask me | 17:56 |
| jonathan__ | omg | 17:58 |
| genehacker | ikea a car company? | 17:58 |
| jonathan__ | the dissertation in that directory even includes an ikea as a case study | 17:58 |
| genehacker | huh? | 17:58 |
| genehacker | what did I mis? | 17:59 |
| kanzure | genehacker: http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/instructions/ | 17:59 |
| jonathan__ | the premise of using pictures is what, do avoid translation? | 17:59 |
| kanzure | i don't want to use pictures | 18:00 |
| kanzure | i like text instructions too | 18:00 |
| jonathan__ | I dont really find the pictures too useful, I prefer a recipe | 18:00 |
| kanzure | i think text, video and pictorial are all useful | 18:00 |
| kanzure | but "only pictorial" is totally useless | 18:00 |
| jonathan__ | the pictures can be generated from a good recipe | 18:00 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:00 |
| kanzure | i agree | 18:00 |
| kanzure | the best paper by far in that directory was Automating maintenance instructions study | 18:00 |
| genehacker | yup it's to avoid translation | 18:01 |
| kanzure | well they suck. | 18:01 |
| kanzure | jonathan is right. | 18:01 |
| genehacker | true | 18:01 |
| genehacker | but it sucks not having a robot to assemble stuff too | 18:01 |
| kanzure | i don't think you know what we are talking about | 18:01 |
| genehacker | I know what you are talking about | 18:03 |
| jonathan__ | the robot is useless unless it can operate on something. so it is chicken and egg | 18:03 |
| genehacker | automatic insturction generation right | 18:03 |
| jonathan__ | robot can be replaced by an undergrad | 18:03 |
| kanzure | you mean me? :( | 18:04 |
| genehacker | I'm an undergrad | 18:04 |
| genehacker | so have you been able to generate instructions? | 18:08 |
| kanzure | yes but fenn hates it | 18:08 |
| drazak | I just posted the most ghetto gel electrophoresis chamber idea, ever | 18:09 |
| genehacker | let me guess, it uses gello? | 18:10 |
| drazak | no, tupperwear | 18:10 |
| drazak | and you can use agarose or whatever | 18:10 |
| genehacker | ok | 18:10 |
| genehacker | hahaha | 18:10 |
| drazak | oops, I forgot to say that you have to remove the tape after casting | 18:10 |
| drazak | or well | 18:10 |
| drazak | er, oh well | 18:11 |
| drazak | I'm stuffed full of sushi | 18:11 |
| jonathan__ | who here is a mech eng | 18:11 |
| genehacker | I am | 18:11 |
| kanzure | me | 18:11 |
| drazak | I've taken mech eng | 18:11 |
| jonathan__ | if so why tupperware. pls post how to pour a mold which results in a nice chamber | 18:11 |
| drazak | jonathan__: you use the tupperwear as your mold | 18:12 |
| jonathan__ | I want a 1-piece chamber poured into some cheap disposable (clay or something) mold | 18:12 |
| fenn | lego | 18:12 |
| genehacker | http://reprap.erikdebruijn.nl/files/research/NASA%20as%20user%20innovator%20-%20WPMicrogravityFDM.pdf | 18:12 |
| jonathan__ | bu hao lego | 18:12 |
| fenn | i used to make casting boxes out of lego for plaster and wax molds | 18:12 |
| genehacker | nasa put a stratasys in vomit comet and it worked | 18:12 |
| genehacker | what did you cast? | 18:13 |
| drazak | jonathan__: cut rectangles off each end, cover with tape, pour gel, let it set, take off tape, put gel in tupperwear in bigger tupperwear, in larger tupperwear attach electrodes, add buffer, add voltage, boom | 18:13 |
| genehacker | jonathan cline right? | 18:13 |
| jonathan__ | the material for the cast is not important | 18:13 |
| genehacker | I could just machine one for you | 18:13 |
| jonathan__ | finding the pourable acrylic is the important part | 18:13 |
| genehacker | polyester resin might work too | 18:14 |
| genehacker | a gel box mold is a fairly simple structure | 18:14 |
| jonathan__ | exactly, simple | 18:14 |
| drazak | jonathan__: I'm not saying to make a gel box, I'm saying use the tupperware as the gel box | 18:15 |
| drazak | :D | 18:15 |
| drazak | it's ghetto | 18:15 |
| jonathan__ | yes, I know | 18:15 |
| jonathan__ | if you need a really simple 220v power source let me know | 18:16 |
| genehacker | are there any standard gel box sizes? | 18:17 |
| genehacker | also what could we use a gel electrophoresis setup for? | 18:18 |
| genehacker | besides gene "finger printing" | 18:20 |
| jonathan__ | it is used for everryyyyything | 18:21 |
| genehacker | I really thing we need to do something more advanced than gel boxes if we want to do true diybio | 18:21 |
| jonathan__ | define "true diybio" | 18:22 |
| drazak | sure | 18:22 |
| jonathan__ | you mean genetic engineering? | 18:22 |
| drazak | which is why I proposed the simplest way | 18:22 |
| drazak | takes 10 minutes to build | 18:22 |
| genehacker | give me an example of everything first | 18:22 |
| jonathan__ | nothing in biology can be measured except by amplifying (pcr) or by running on gel if already amplified | 18:23 |
| genehacker | measuring what? | 18:23 |
| jonathan__ | everything in the lab here eventually hits a gel to verify "it is what it is" | 18:23 |
| jonathan__ | genes of course | 18:23 |
| jonathan__ | or proteins | 18:23 |
| fenn | so you don't like fluorescent labeling? | 18:24 |
| genehacker | what about the chemicals to run the gel aren't those going to be hard to obtain | 18:24 |
| fenn | or radioisotope uptake | 18:24 |
| drazak | jonathan__: proteins you do on a PAGE, and those are verticle | 18:24 |
| jonathan__ | too expensive for common stuff | 18:24 |
| drazak | genehacker: nah, the only hard thing might be EtBr, but eh | 18:24 |
| jonathan__ | page is still a matrix run on high voltage | 18:24 |
| jonathan__ | and they are vertical only for convenience | 18:24 |
| genehacker | so can you seperate out proteins? | 18:24 |
| genehacker | using gel eletrophoresis? | 18:25 |
| drazak | genehacker: any time you want to seperate something by size you run a gel | 18:25 |
| drazak | genehacker: or my charge | 18:25 |
| drazak | genehacker: or by shape | 18:25 |
| drazak | or by shape and charge if you do a 2d gel | 18:26 |
| genehacker | awesome | 18:26 |
| jonathan__ | capillary electrophoresis is out of reach of diy for the long term I think | 18:26 |
| drazak | yeah | 18:26 |
| genehacker | could we seperate Taq polymerase out? | 18:27 |
| jonathan__ | "gel" = agar | 18:27 |
| jonathan__ | agar is too thick for proteins, the proteins dont move | 18:27 |
| genehacker | so what do we use? | 18:27 |
| drazak | polyacrylmide | 18:28 |
| drazak | 2-20% | 18:28 |
| genehacker | oh cool | 18:28 |
| jonathan__ | that's the point of all the different reagents... | 18:28 |
| genehacker | that's availale at home depot | 18:28 |
| genehacker | plant section | 18:28 |
| genehacker | comes in granules though, so it might be hard to use | 18:29 |
| genehacker | I think that's what they are | 18:29 |
| genehacker | yup | 18:30 |
| drazak | yeah, it was mentioned on the group that you can use agar instead of purified agarose | 18:31 |
| drazak | if you're worried about DNAase or RNAase contamination, you can treet them with DETC | 18:31 |
| genehacker | so could we use gel electrophoresis to somehow test for diseases? | 18:33 |
| drazak | it's done all the time :) | 18:33 |
| drazak | well I guess they use qrt-pcr more than GE now, but you can do GE, pcr some samples, run them on the gel, if you get a band the right size then you have a gene, if it's a viral gene then you had a virus | 18:34 |
| genehacker | how? and how do we get the chemicals? | 18:34 |
| genehacker | the problem is getting the chemicals | 18:35 |
| drazak | 99% of this stuff you can buy as a private citizen from invitorgen or sigmalaldritch | 18:36 |
| genehacker | and delivered to my house? | 18:36 |
| genehacker | how much? | 18:36 |
| drazak | it depends on what you're buying | 18:37 |
| genehacker | isn't this stuff expensive(bad for stuff that is expended)? | 18:37 |
| drazak | you can buy primers for 12 bucks a primer, and primers are good for atleast a couple hundred pcrs, taq polymerase, you only need a little, it's maybe 100 bucks for 200 reactions, primermix is cheap, DETC is cheapish, and you can get agar at the hardware store | 18:39 |
| drazak | you need a thermocycler or to use hot water baths | 18:39 |
| genehacker | wow primers are cheaper than I though | 18:40 |
| drazak | yeah | 18:40 |
| drazak | it's 6$ for the forward, 6$ for the reverse | 18:40 |
| drazak | it's more at sigma, but I'll get you the name of the palce that we order from that's so cheap | 18:40 |
| genehacker | so taq or any use ful polymerase is going to be expensive | 18:41 |
| drazak | think about how many reactions you get out of it though | 18:42 |
| drazak | it's only a couple bucks per reaction | 18:43 |
| genehacker | so just as an example, I want to determine if I have a certain virus | 18:43 |
| genehacker | how would I do that? | 18:43 |
| genehacker | that's comparable to the cost of pharmaceuticals | 18:44 |
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| genehacker | you mentioned that this could be done with gel electrophoresis | 18:46 |
| drazak | ok, so you need a sample from blood, if it's an rna virus you isolate rna, dna virus isolate dna, if you isolated rna you need to do reverse transcriptase, so then you have your dna, determine your concentration of dna, and then mix 80ng of dna (2 microlitres if you had 40ng/ul), .5ul taq, 2ul primer, 7.5ul primer mix, 13ul water, do the pcr, then take 15ul of your sample and mix it with 3ul of loading dye on some parafilm, then load it into the gel (whic | 18:46 |
| drazak | where'd I get cut off? | 18:46 |
| genehacker | (whic | 18:47 |
| drazak | h you made and put in the gel box and covered with buffer) and then run the gel for an hour | 18:47 |
| genehacker | so how do you isolate DNA? | 18:47 |
| drazak | use a dna isolation kit, it's usually chaper than buying the reagents | 18:48 |
| drazak | or rna isolation kit | 18:48 |
| genehacker | and how is concentration determined | 18:48 |
| drazak | nanodrop or EtBr dilutions | 18:48 |
| genehacker | how do DNA and RNA isolation kits work? | 18:49 |
| drazak | generally they have a salt spin column | 18:49 |
| genehacker | which is? | 18:49 |
| drazak | so you take your sample homogenize it, put it in the spin column and spin for whatever time it says, then your run some buffers through to clean it up, do dnase digestion if you're isolating rna, then run some more buffers, then elute into water | 18:50 |
| drazak | you need a microfuge | 18:50 |
| drazak | all dna isolation methods need one though | 18:50 |
| drazak | or a highspeed centrifuge | 18:51 |
| genehacker | not all | 18:52 |
| genehacker | there is microfluidic dna isolation | 18:52 |
| genehacker | http://research.ncku.edu.tw/re/news/e/20090109/images/090105065937DihqBc.jpg | 18:54 |
| genehacker | check that out | 18:54 |
| drazak | all traditional methods | 18:54 |
| genehacker | we need not be traditionalists | 18:55 |
| drazak | listen | 18:55 |
| drazak | for getting started | 18:55 |
| drazak | diybio needs to get it's head out of it's ass and stop trying to reinvent the wheel | 18:55 |
| genehacker | how so? | 18:57 |
| drazak | microfluidics=out of our reach | 18:58 |
| genehacker | not so | 18:58 |
| drazak | synbio=we don't have the infrastructure for it | 18:58 |
| genehacker | I wouldn't call it trying to reinvent the wheel | 18:58 |
| drazak | it is | 18:59 |
| genehacker | I'd call it trying to do something we can't | 18:59 |
| drazak | if we can't do the traditional methods we certainly can't manage to do the enw methods that 2 labs in the whole world are using | 18:59 |
| genehacker | we can do shrinky dink microfluidics | 18:59 |
| genehacker | what infrastructure is needed for synbio? | 18:59 |
| drazak | everything | 19:00 |
| drazak | we don't have the reagents, we don't have the equipment, and most people don't have the knowledge | 19:00 |
| genehacker | we don't have the reagents? | 19:01 |
| drazak | maybe kay aull does | 19:01 |
| genehacker | we don't have the reagents for much of this diybio stuff | 19:01 |
| drazak | but 90% of diybio people are all theoretical | 19:01 |
| drazak | 95% of diybio have no wetwork experience | 19:01 |
| genehacker | correct | 19:02 |
| genehacker | hell I hardly have any | 19:02 |
| drazak | it kinda pisses me off when people think it's so easy just to do everything | 19:02 |
| drazak | "oh yeah you just pippete stuff into tubes" | 19:02 |
| drazak | well pippetting .5uL isn't the most easy thing in the world, thanks | 19:02 |
| genehacker | oh wow | 19:03 |
| genehacker | I found a bunch of sources for pyrex wafers | 19:03 |
| fenn | 0.5ul with a p2 is pretty easy | 19:23 |
| drazak | fenn: well yeah, but theres a technique to it, you can't put it on the side, you need to get it in the bottom of the tube with the rest of it, you need to make sure you don't pick up extra on the outside of the tip | 19:27 |
| drazak | with that small ammount having extra on the outside of your tip will mess up your ratio easily | 19:28 |
| fenn | yeah it's not like dumping in a liter into a swimming pool | 19:28 |
| drazak | exactly | 19:28 |
| drazak | most people pippetting for the first time are just like | 19:28 |
| drazak | SPRAY | 19:28 |
| drazak | not gently getting the liquid with the rest | 19:28 |
| drazak | of course if you're doing 600ul, you can just screw around with it :P | 19:29 |
| drazak | but there is a technique to it | 19:31 |
| drazak | pippeting is a skill | 19:31 |
| kanzure | like not forgetting what you just pippetted | 19:31 |
| fenn | that's a tough one | 19:31 |
| drazak | definitely | 19:32 |
| drazak | that's what we need a smartbench for | 19:32 |
| drazak | :) | 19:32 |
| kanzure | how hard could it be to turn on a webcam? | 19:32 |
| kanzure | they haven't done anything with that project in a year | 19:33 |
| drazak | that was always my thought | 19:33 |
| kanzure | http://diybio.org/projects/ | 19:33 |
| drazak | camera+computer | 19:33 |
| kanzure | there's also this weird ass shot of mackenzie | 19:33 |
| drazak | there's programs to add tags to objects | 19:33 |
| kanzure | never understood that either | 19:33 |
| drazak | mac is lulzy | 19:33 |
| kanzure | opencv or other image process library stuff comes later.. just use a webcam for starters. | 19:33 |
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| kanzure | also, voltage sensors would be neat | 19:34 |
| kanzure | like playing "operation" | 19:34 |
| fenn | heh AR augmented pipettor | 19:34 |
| fenn | don't make me PCR reaction you | 19:34 |
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| drazak | rofl | 19:37 |
| fenn | but seriously i'd love to have protocol instructions overlaid on stuff on the lab bench | 19:40 |
| kanzure | overlaid? | 19:41 |
| kanzure | oh, AR/VR | 19:41 |
| fenn | literally arrows going from one tube to another | 19:41 |
| fenn | "pipette 5ul from here to here" | 19:41 |
| kanzure | it wouldn't be too hard to get "color coded object labeling" going on | 19:41 |
| kanzure | where you have it know the identity of an object by a color | 19:41 |
| fenn | pinouts for breadboarding too.. i'm always looking back and forth at the datasheet | 19:41 |
| kanzure | counting tiny pins? | 19:41 |
| fenn | seems i can only remember one pin at a time | 19:42 |
| fenn | electronics chips | 19:42 |
| kanzure | yes i know | 19:42 |
| kanzure | i too have spent many hours counting pins | 19:42 |
| fenn | i think you could train a computer to recognize a chip just by its shape | 19:42 |
| fenn | then add some fiducial code (what are they called again?) | 19:43 |
| drazak | nah, too many share the same package | 19:43 |
| fenn | the square barcode thingies | 19:43 |
| drazak | if it has resolution to read those | 19:43 |
| fenn | actually i dont think you need that, you could just say "this chips is this number" | 19:44 |
| drazak | yeah | 19:44 |
| fenn | actually you just need to know the orientation of the breadboard | 19:46 |
| kanzure | openmodelica tutorial: http://www.ida.liu.se/labs/pelab/modelica/OpenModelica/Documents/ModelicaTutorialFritzson.pdf | 19:48 |
| kanzure | why is this a language? | 20:03 |
| kanzure | "keyword 'flow' indicates that (in this case) currents of connected pins sum to zero, example: flow Current i;" (pg 36) | 20:04 |
| kanzure | "Connections between connectors (ports) are realized as equations in modelica" (pg 37) | 20:05 |
| kanzure | ah | 20:05 |
| kanzure | connect(pin1,pin2) corresponds to "pin1.i + pin2.i = 0" | 20:05 |
| kanzure | so it's just setting up the constraints of the problem | 20:06 |
| kanzure | openmodelica notebook seems to be their gui: http://images.google.com/images?q=openmodelica%20notebook&oe=utf-8&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi | 20:08 |
| kanzure | on pg 44 they show a simple dc model.. they connect the "p" variable of an inductor to the "n" variable of an electromotive force (emf). any ideas as to what that might mean? | 20:10 |
| drazak | what is openmodelica? | 20:10 |
| kanzure | what is the "n" variable? | 20:10 |
| kanzure | drazak: modelica is a modeling language apparently. openmodelica is an open source library and compiler for the language. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | but again i'm not sure why this is a language | 20:10 |
| drazak | 'modeling language' like, 3d modeling? | 20:11 |
| kanzure | what does "compiling" it do? | 20:11 |
| kanzure | no, this is for parts and components being connected together | 20:11 |
| kanzure | kind of like in skdb | 20:11 |
| fenn | i think p and n are like "effort" and "flow" (not necessarily p=effort but you get the idea) | 20:11 |
| drazak | oh right | 20:11 |
| fenn | there are 4 variables | 20:11 |
| fenn | (this i remember from the paredis slides) | 20:11 |
| kanzure | there was a page in here before pg 40 that had a nice, more extensive diagram that slightly matches matt's usual "efforts and flows" lookup table | 20:12 |
| fenn | oh, duh. "previous" and "next" | 20:12 |
| fenn | or maybe positive/negative | 20:12 |
| fenn | i don't really like that :( | 20:13 |
| fenn | polarity only matters for diodes | 20:13 |
| fenn | and what do you do with a transistor | 20:13 |
| fenn | kanzure: shouldn't you be reading about quantum mechanics? | 20:14 |
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| kanzure | it's okay, i took some drugs so i'll be up forever | 20:15 |
| drazak | need that adderall | 20:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: it wouldn't be a stretch to go fetch openmodelica's model of a screw and dump it into the skdb screw package | 20:17 |
| fenn | there are a lot of things about screws that they won't be concerned with | 20:18 |
| kanzure | these do seem to be simplified models, yes | 20:18 |
| fenn | i'm all for a "generate openmodelica" of course | 20:18 |
| kanzure | how about import openmodelica? | 20:18 |
| fenn | eh? | 20:18 |
| kanzure | well there seems to be some connectivity information that is recoverable, although it may not be useful | 20:18 |
| fenn | there's a mapping from each skdb class to modelica class | 20:18 |
| kanzure | sure. | 20:19 |
| fenn | i need a better way to integrate packages that may not necessarily be installed | 20:19 |
| kanzure | to integrate? what? | 20:19 |
| fenn | like try: import openmodelica; except ImportError: blah | 20:20 |
| fenn | but less sucky | 20:20 |
| kanzure | i actually like that | 20:20 |
| kanzure | i mean, it's worked so far | 20:20 |
| fenn | i don't. it screws up the flow of the code | 20:20 |
| fenn | if i didn't have to worry about it, things would be in different places (much more logically arranged) | 20:21 |
| fenn | i shouldn't have to turn everything inside out because of a package dependency | 20:21 |
| kanzure | oh you mean when debugging something? | 20:21 |
| fenn | no i mean the structure of the code, the order words appear on the screen | 20:21 |
| kanzure | the import statements seem to be at the top usually | 20:22 |
| fenn | yeah but if i'm doing try: import then i have to put all the code for that plugin inside the try statement | 20:23 |
| fenn | unless i can do "if using_modelica:" | 20:23 |
| fenn | but i dont think that always works | 20:23 |
| kanzure | when does it not work? | 20:23 |
| kanzure | that's the "c preprocessor" way :p | 20:24 |
| fenn | hmm | 20:24 |
| fenn | well it turned out to be a bit more involved with OCC | 20:24 |
| kanzure | skdb.geom should fail with the "occ" issues on your box | 20:25 |
| fenn | and then again with igraph, python-graph | 20:25 |
| kanzure | on your laptop i mean | 20:25 |
| fenn | right, that's how i've been testing (halfassedly) | 20:25 |
| fenn | you could also do something like OCC.py: raise ImportError | 20:26 |
| genehacker | kanzure have you tried modafinil? | 20:26 |
| fenn | i don't get why modelica doesn't use icons | 20:26 |
| fenn | what's the point of graphical programming without icons? | 20:26 |
| kanzure | genehacker: i forget. i can check my medical records if you want. | 20:26 |
| kanzure | there's such a long list it's ridiculous. | 20:27 |
| fenn | oh, nevermind, i guess they do use icons | 20:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah the "notebook" thingy. | 20:27 |
| fenn | it's sysml that doesn't use icons | 20:27 |
| kanzure | but they use diagrams instead? | 20:27 |
| fenn | there's this labview-ish thing on p. 15/16 | 20:27 |
| fenn | mujahideen | 20:31 |
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| * ybit needs adrafanil | 20:36 | |
| * ybit is sleepy | 20:36 | |
| * ybit prefers jobs which don't suck the life out of you | 20:37 | |
| fenn | kanzure: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddwick/3016657700/in/set-72157608736702937/ | 20:37 |
| ybit | i have quite a few comments on the pythonocc install that i'm looking at | 20:37 |
| ybit | first off, make sure the person has python2.5-dev | 20:37 |
| ybit | took me forever to figure out why gcc test was failing and thus scons wouldn't compile (still won't compile, getting there...) | 20:38 |
| ybit | wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/BRep* | 20:38 |
| fenn | does it have to be 2.5? | 20:38 |
| ybit | that's the dir | 20:38 |
| ybit | doubt it, i'm using 2.5 though | 20:38 |
| fenn | so just python-dev then | 20:39 |
| ybit | yeah | 20:39 |
| ybit | wrapper/SWIG/win32/LocOpe* | 20:39 |
| ybit | take note of the directory, it's different than the dir structure which you were using when the install notes were written | 20:40 |
| fenn | are you following compile_pythonocc? | 20:40 |
| kanzure | which version did you checkout? | 20:40 |
| * fenn loses track of how many mangled copies kanzure has littered around the internets | 20:40 | |
| ybit | python-gccxml doesn't exist | 20:40 |
| fenn | you shouldn't need it | 20:40 |
| fenn | that's for rebuilding the swig files | 20:41 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/f64b005dc | 20:41 |
| ybit | that's where i'm at currently, but i'm so flippin tired right now, not even sure if i'm going to bother fixing it tonight | 20:42 |
| fenn | well i updated the file that's being displayed on the wiki (why isn't it under version control hmm) | 20:43 |
| fenn | ybit: first of all, you shouldn't even bother with scons | 20:43 |
| fenn | use setup.py | 20:43 |
| fenn | it seems to me like scons is a half finished project (and maybe setup.py is 7/8's finished) | 20:44 |
| ybit | spent the entire afternoon going over business details with my grandfather and other family members, looks like it will be pushed to the side for the time being and i'll continue learning welding and whatever metal work my dad and job teaches me + ev @ work | 20:44 |
| fenn | who is ev? | 20:44 |
| ybit | oh, electric vehicles | 20:44 |
| ybit | guess i will have to refer to Phreedom as evgeny now | 20:45 |
| fenn | huh? | 20:45 |
| ybit | i called Phreedom ev for short for quite awhile | 20:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit : 1960's early 70's Ford had a hydraulic boost cylinder on the end of the pitman arm rather than a hydraulic boost steering gearbox , let me put in an order for 2 now | 20:45 |
| fenn | well, you could try calling him Phreedom | 20:46 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: i'll keep an eye out if the business goes back into business :| | 20:46 |
| katsmeow-afk | k :-) | 20:46 |
| fenn | shockingly brilliant idea, i know | 20:46 |
| katsmeow-afk | off to postoffice, bbl | 20:46 |
| ybit | i could, but then that's a brilliant idea left alone | 20:46 |
| ybit | setup.py, here we come, and then bedtime | 20:47 |
| * fenn cries himself into chocolate induced insomnia | 20:47 | |
| ybit | btw, nobody told me about steel toe boots | 20:47 |
| ybit | i have to buy me a pair if i'm going to do some welding | 20:47 |
| fenn | you don't need steel toed boots to weld | 20:47 |
| fenn | just not sandals or running shoes | 20:47 |
| ybit | i just kind of figured that's what i would need and i asked a few guys today who have welded and they all suggested it | 20:47 |
| ybit | i only have running shoes and cheap dress-up boots | 20:48 |
| fenn | they probably wear carhart overalls too | 20:48 |
| ybit | i've yet to be meet anyone in a long time that's worn those :P | 20:48 |
| ybit | s/that's worn/that wears/ (for katsmeow-afk's sanity) | 20:49 |
| fenn | that's is posessive | 20:49 |
| ybit | oh right | 20:49 |
| fenn | no, wait | 20:50 |
| ybit | i'm sleepy? | 20:50 |
| ybit | i think you're right | 20:50 |
| ybit | i'm going to say you are | 20:50 |
| fenn | you is -> you'se | 20:50 |
| ybit | oh right, so did you look at the pastebin fenn, do i need some of that stuff? it looks like a bunch occ libs are missing | 20:51 |
| fenn | the "checking ... no" stuff is fine, but you have to fix the environment paths to find the .i files | 20:52 |
| fenn | they moved them into src/wrapper/ i think | 20:52 |
| fenn | i updated this page, you have to hit reload to see changes http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc | 20:53 |
| fenn | anyway it's for setup.py instead of scons | 20:53 |
| fenn | seems to work a lot better | 20:53 |
| fenn | sorry it's not totally checked and polished etc | 20:54 |
| kanzure | Chlorophyll derivatives as visual pigments for super vision in the red | 20:54 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/Chlorophyll%20derivatives%20as%20visual%20pigments%20for%20super%20vision%20in%20the%20red.pdf | 20:54 |
| fenn | kanzure: that's ridiculous | 20:55 |
| genehacker | no this is: | 20:55 |
| genehacker | http://www.physorg.com/news172225206.html | 20:56 |
| fenn | yeah | 20:57 |
| ybit | i'm almost certain this will break your system fenn | 20:58 |
| ybit | sudo apt-get install libopencascade-visualization-dev libopencascade-dev | 20:58 |
| ybit | sudo apt-get install libopencascade-dev scons python-psyco swig checkinstall x11proto-core-dev libx11-dev | 20:58 |
| fenn | well, the second line isn't really necessary | 20:58 |
| ybit | because visualization-dev depends on the foundation-dev which can't be installed at the same libopencascade-dev is installed | 20:58 |
| fenn | yar | 20:59 |
| ybit | and if libopencascade-dev is install, libopencascade-wok is removed | 20:59 |
| ybit | opencascade-wok | 20:59 |
| ybit | not lib* | 20:59 |
| fenn | guh | 20:59 |
| fenn | first off, remove *opencascade* | 20:59 |
| ybit | it's almost better to just manually install occ | 20:59 |
| fenn | then enable opennovation repo's and install libopencascade-visualization-dev | 21:00 |
| fenn | libopencascade* should all be 6.3.0 | 21:00 |
| fenn | you need 6.3.0 for pythonocc (don't ask me why) | 21:00 |
| kanzure | probably because the wrappers were generated on 6.3.0 | 21:01 |
| kanzure | the wrappers/headers | 21:01 |
| fenn | i would really like to figure out how this whole thing works some day | 21:01 |
| kanzure | here's how it works: | 21:02 |
| kanzure | you give ".h" files to swig | 21:02 |
| fenn | i get the general idea | 21:02 |
| kanzure | swig takes these and.. | 21:02 |
| kanzure | oh. | 21:02 |
| fenn | it's the specific bits that don't really add up | 21:02 |
| fenn | like where are all the .i files hiding? | 21:02 |
| fenn | and where are the transformations described? | 21:02 |
| kanzure | i think they may have created those by hand | 21:02 |
| fenn | no | 21:02 |
| ybit | guess i should also edit /etc/preference to prefer the jaunty mirror over the unstable for occlibs | 21:03 |
| fenn | i think you should forget about /etc/apt/preference | 21:04 |
| ybit | s | 21:04 |
| fenn | when you meddle too much it tends not to work as desired | 21:04 |
| fenn | or you could learn the hard way, whatever | 21:04 |
| fenn | i thought you were using debian? | 21:05 |
| ybit | fenn: i am | 21:10 |
| ybit | python-gccxml is still nowhere to be found if you want to go ahead and remove that from the instructions | 21:24 |
| ybit | will have to fix the following tomorrow | 21:27 |
| ybit | /home/heath/builds/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/Standard_wrap.cpp:1: warning: The C++ parser does not support -dy, option ignored | 21:27 |
| ybit | /home/heath/builds/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/Standard_wrap.cpp:3037:32: error: Standard_Failure.hxx: No such file or directory | 21:28 |
| ybit | /usr/include/opencascade/Standard_Failure.hxx | 21:29 |
| ybit | the libs aren't linked correctly as you mentioned | 21:29 |
| ybit | off to bed | 21:29 |
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| fenn | it's really unfortunate that compiling stuff is procedural knowledge and not declarative knowledge | 21:52 |
| -!- Phreedom [n=quassel@195.216.211.175] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 22:08 | |
| genehacker | kanzure don't you have some papers on microcontact printing | 22:42 |
| kanzure | probably? | 22:42 |
| kanzure | do you mean imprinting? | 22:43 |
| genehacker | yeah or stamp lithography | 22:44 |
| kanzure | yeah somewhere | 22:48 |
| genehacker | ok | 22:49 |
| genehacker | http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/ChemTech/Volume/2007/03/hot_wax_and_peel.asp | 22:52 |
| genehacker | excellent | 22:52 |
| genehacker | a way to purify dna | 22:52 |
| -!- genehacker2 [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-43-62.public.utexas.edu] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:59 | |
| -!- genehacker [i=genehack@wireless-128-62-43-62.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 23:13 | |
| genehacker2 | WTF? | 23:58 |
| genehacker2 | nvm | 23:59 |
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