| --- Day changed Wed Sep 23 2009 | ||
| ybit | A launch loop or Lofstrom loop is a design for a maglev cable transport system for orbital launch that would be around 2,000 km (1,240 mi) long and maintained at an altitude of up to 80 km (50 mi). | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ybit | where would you put the device, if only it was a little smaller.. | 00:00 |
| ybit | maybe space fountains are the answer, ack, time for bed | 00:02 |
| fenn | kanzure: also i think this should be a wiki page instead of a yaml, but whatever | 00:02 |
| fenn | the thing i never got about launch loops was how to get it started | 00:02 |
| ybit | re: getting something into space. attach a device to a device, after it detects a certain altitude has been reached, it detaches itself and uses nanothrusters to propel itself away from the earth's graviational field?.. | 00:11 |
| ybit | device to a weather balloon* | 00:11 |
| ybit | what's the here and now alt to nanothrusters.. | 00:11 |
| ybit | http://www.engin.umich.edu/dept/aero/spacelab/pdf/STAIF_2007.pdf :: Nanoparticle electric propulsion for space exploration | 00:13 |
| ybit | http://data.engin.umich.edu/sets/papers/louisdmJPC2006.pdf :: Nanoparticle Electric Propulsion: Experimental Results | 00:13 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thruster list alts | 00:14 |
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| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r 60b0275 /doc/architecture: answered some questions, meddling.. kanzure please look at changes | 00:27 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: fenn * r 971391a /doc/architecture: moved stuff around to make more sense and be valid yaml | 00:27 |
| fenn | ybit: "nanothrusters" really? i thought you were better than that.. | 00:27 |
| fenn | mass driver and ion drive has been around for ages | 00:28 |
| ybit | Micropropulsion for small spacecraft | 00:29 |
| fenn | neither will get you to orbit, unfortunately | 00:29 |
| ybit | /me wants | 00:29 |
| fenn | Spacecraft thrusters: electrohydrodynamic (only for use in atmosphere) | 00:33 |
| fenn | am i the only one who sees the contradiction? | 00:33 |
| fenn | MEMS people ought to know better than name something "nanoFET" | 00:38 |
| ybit | sent email to artemis and luf-team | 00:39 |
| ybit | time to get ~6 hours of sleep -_- | 00:39 |
| ybit | gn | 00:40 |
| fenn | the inkjet accelerator idea is interesting | 00:40 |
| ybit | eh? | 00:40 |
| ybit | linky please | 00:40 |
| fenn | mentioned in the paper | 00:40 |
| fenn | charge up a micro droplet and accelerate it | 00:40 |
| ybit | Reliable sources report that there will be a press conference at NASA HQ at 2:00 pm this Thursday featuring lunar scientist Carle Pieters from Brown University. | 00:42 |
| ybit | interesting | 00:42 |
| ybit | The topic of the press briefing will be a paper that will appear in this week's issue of Science magazine wherein results from the Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) aboard Chandrayaan-1 will be revealed. | 00:43 |
| ybit | The take home message: there is a lot of water on the Moon. | 00:43 |
| fenn | there was a way to make microdroplets by focusing acoustic waves at a certain spot | 00:45 |
| fenn | so you could use any old metal lying around on the moon or wherever | 00:46 |
| fenn | i mean you don't need to have some super precise silicon MEMS nozzle thingy | 00:46 |
| fenn | fuck now i'm saying "thingy" | 00:48 |
| fenn | damn you kanzure | 00:48 |
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| ybit | fenn: re: w.balloon device. i was looking into hobbyists' rockets last night before nodding off, problem is they can only get you at most ~10km further up | 08:04 |
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| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atmosphere_layers-en.svg | 08:05 |
| ybit | on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_altitude_balloon someone mentions lightcraft/laser propulsion to increate your travel distance with the air balloon, but i'm not sure how much further you can go | 08:07 |
| ybit | oh, and the guy made up the ref -_- | 08:07 |
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| katsmeow-afk | oh and the FAA will bust you royally if your laser propulsion is seen by a pilot | 08:48 |
| genehacker2 | I almost got in trouble with the FAA | 08:52 |
| katsmeow-afk | i wanna be doing things that would get me in trouble if they knew | 08:54 |
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| kanzure | hm.. http://utdesign.org/ | 11:18 |
| kanzure | campbell apparently has that until 2017 | 11:18 |
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| kanzure | huh didn't know about "google code university" http://code.google.com/edu/languages/index.html | 11:48 |
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| genehacker | dang, I didn't know you guys had frankloydwright's personality in .zip form | 11:53 |
| kanzure | well we tried putting it into a .rar but it didn't fit | 11:57 |
| kanzure | hm. pydy implements kinematics with sympy. neat. | 11:57 |
| kanzure | in the examples folder there's a bicycle, double pendulum, single pendulum, spherical pendulum, and a fourbar. | 11:57 |
| genehacker | make a lipkin linkage | 12:00 |
| genehacker | also remember kinematics is only half the battle | 12:01 |
| genehacker | got to take those pesky forces into account | 12:01 |
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| kanzure | fenn: what is an "action dependency tree"? per skdb/doc/architecture | 12:23 |
| genehacker | I think it's quite obvious | 12:24 |
| kanzure | it's not | 12:24 |
| xp_prg | genehacker you continuing to study the bio printing stuff? | 12:26 |
| kanzure | recently i have been talking a lot about SPUD, so i guess i'll explain wtf i'm on about | 12:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~mdstone/nlg.html#software | 12:34 |
| kanzure | code: http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~mdstone/class/taglet | 12:34 |
| kanzure | old code: http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~mdstone/soft/spud-src.tar.gz | 12:34 |
| kanzure | examples: http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~mdstone/soft/examples.tar.gz | 12:35 |
| xp_prg | I love prolog! | 12:35 |
| xp_prg | tell me more please | 12:35 |
| kanzure | this was the paper that i really really liked on automating maintenance instruction generation: http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/instructions/Automating%20maintenance%20instructions%20study.pdf | 12:35 |
| kanzure | at the time i didn't know that it was written by matthew stone or didn't notice that it was using spud | 12:35 |
| kanzure | anyway, the example in that paper near the end is from an f16 manual for replacing a valve or something | 12:36 |
| kanzure | actually for an internal fuel tank vent | 12:36 |
| kanzure | in the paper you see pg 31 (paper's pagination, not the pdf's) 3D rendering of a virtual human actor carrying out the instructions | 12:37 |
| xp_prg | kanzure it may interest you to understand that I am creating a type of expert system using prolog based completely on tree like rules | 12:37 |
| xp_prg | this approach may be similar to what I am doing | 12:38 |
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| kanzure | in the examples provided with spud by matthew stone, in demos/motion/eg1.ps you see the same diagrams (except not 3D) | 12:39 |
| xp_prg | it has been my hunch that prolog would be the best way to do what your trying to do but you hate me so I couldn't tell you this | 12:39 |
| kanzure | it turns out that the spud example archive comes with the same problem and the setup files | 12:39 |
| kanzure | unfortunately sml is old and cluggy and a lot of the dependencies (like clm.cm and smlnj-lib.cm) are hard to find | 12:39 |
| kanzure | do you have an implementation of a tree-adjoining grammar or lexical tree-adjoining grammar? | 12:40 |
| xp_prg | no, I am using a decision tree | 12:40 |
| xp_prg | want me to describe to you how it will work, I even have a prototype if you want to see it | 12:41 |
| kanzure | how what will work | 12:41 |
| xp_prg | my approach to solving an expert system using prolog which may benefit your skdb project | 12:41 |
| kanzure | why are you making an "expert system" | 12:41 |
| xp_prg | because it is hard for me to remember all the complex things I have to do at work and other things, this will assist me with that | 12:42 |
| kanzure | so a todo list | 12:42 |
| xp_prg | the end result is a todo list yes | 12:42 |
| xp_prg | but it is a customized todo list based on your "goal" | 12:43 |
| kanzure | honestly i don't think you're capable of anything but if it works it works | 12:43 |
| xp_prg | well guess you don't want to know about it cool | 12:43 |
| kanzure | you just told me about it | 12:43 |
| xp_prg | no I asked you if you wanted to know about it, I haven't told you all about it at all | 12:44 |
| kanzure | you're implementing a tree grammar, what else is there to know | 12:44 |
| xp_prg | I forgot you know it all, hard to help someone who knows it all, that is not what I said or what I am doing | 12:44 |
| kanzure | you said "tree like rules" | 12:45 |
| kanzure | were you lying? | 12:45 |
| xp_prg | no, do you know what a grammar is? | 12:45 |
| kanzure | yep | 12:45 |
| xp_prg | tree like rules != tree grammar | 12:45 |
| kanzure | a grammar is a set of rules | 12:46 |
| xp_prg | a grammar takes a lexicons and validates their syntax | 12:46 |
| xp_prg | anyway, I wish you would be open to other peoples projects and ideas, they could benefit you, your rudeness and inability to listen are not helpful to you | 12:47 |
| kanzure | xp_prg: it's you that i hate | 12:47 |
| kanzure | you're wrong about grammars | 12:48 |
| xp_prg | your loss, I don't care, and could care less | 12:48 |
| xp_prg | no I am not | 12:48 |
| xp_prg | I took automota theory, I built grammars, they validate syntax | 12:49 |
| xp_prg | anyway whatever, its too hard to help you | 12:49 |
| xp_prg | I get insulted for even trying | 12:49 |
| genehacker | THIS LINE OF DISCOURSE IS FRUITLESS PLEASE PROCEED WITH ANOTHER LINE OF DISCOURSE | 12:49 |
| kanzure | i didn't insult you in this conversation | 12:50 |
| genehacker | THIS LINE OF DISCOURSE IS FRUITLESS PLEASE PROCEED WITH ANOTHER LINE OF DISCOURSE | 12:50 |
| xp_prg | I hate you and don't believe you can do anything is not an insult? | 12:50 |
| kanzure | nope | 12:50 |
| kanzure | that means i hate you | 12:50 |
| fenn | why are you talking to him | 12:51 |
| kanzure | because i'm stupid | 12:51 |
| fenn | no don't answer that | 12:51 |
| xp_prg | by the way I am meeting with synbio people again, don't need you, don't care, I will soon know quite a bit more than you do | 12:51 |
| fenn | anyway an action dependency tree is the same as the recipe tree | 12:51 |
| kanzure | a recipe is a tree? | 12:51 |
| fenn | you usually follow the critical path | 12:52 |
| genehacker | hey guys why not have a dictionary of terms you created? | 12:52 |
| xp_prg | fenn you know prolog? | 12:52 |
| fenn | what is 'skdb hard get' supposed to do differently from 'skdb soft get'? you never answered | 12:52 |
| genehacker | it'll probably make things better | 12:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: software versus software+hardware | 12:52 |
| kanzure | software as in "skdb representation" | 12:52 |
| fenn | but it's all software | 12:52 |
| kanzure | genehacker: we haven't made any new terms to be honest | 12:53 |
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| kanzure | fenn: "skdb hard get" should mean it adds instructions to the queue to physically build stuff though | 12:53 |
| kanzure | and once you complete that, it's "fully installed" | 12:53 |
| kanzure | or it may involve ordering from a supplier | 12:53 |
| fenn | what does 'skdb build' do then? | 12:53 |
| kanzure | hm maybe i haven't though this through yet | 12:53 |
| fenn | i think you just just say 'skdb build' which automatically invokes 'skdb get' if necessary | 12:54 |
| kanzure | you added "assembly dependencies", does that mean we need something like 'skdb assemble' which is not the same as 'skdb build'? | 12:54 |
| kanzure | this is confusing, which one is "primary" | 12:54 |
| kanzure | or are they just co-existing commands | 12:54 |
| fenn | the depth parameter was like how many levels deep to get dependencies.. i.e. "do i need to fetch instructions for smelting steel?" | 12:54 |
| fenn | if you call 'skdb assemble foo' it looks at whether you will build or buy it | 12:55 |
| fenn | if you build it then it calls 'skdb build foo' | 12:55 |
| kanzure | i need a consistent list of which commands do what | 12:56 |
| genehacker | can it determine if you should build or buy standard parts? | 12:56 |
| fenn | following this line of thought i'm not sure what 'get' is supposed to mean | 12:56 |
| kanzure | right now i'm partly reading what you say and partly what i remember, but who cares | 12:56 |
| genehacker | if yes you got something useful | 12:56 |
| kanzure | as long as the interface is self-consistent | 12:56 |
| kanzure | this just seems "trivial" to me | 12:56 |
| kanzure | i mean, i don't actually care what it's called for doing each "mode" | 12:56 |
| fenn | fair enough | 12:57 |
| fenn | i just don't want to end up with something ugly | 12:57 |
| kanzure | sure | 12:57 |
| kanzure | i don't think this will influence the backend | 12:57 |
| kanzure | instruction generation is still the remaining thorny issue | 12:58 |
| fenn | there's more to it than just translating actions to natural language | 12:59 |
| kanzure | i was thinking that for the "build" mode of a certain package, it would call the "instruction generation for build mode" for each of the packages it lists in the "build dependencies" | 12:59 |
| kanzure | i agree, the translation part isn't of concern to me at the moment | 12:59 |
| fenn | there's also a whole operations research resource planning alogorithm layer that we haven't even talked about | 12:59 |
| fenn | so like if your robot is busy you'd have to do it by hand | 13:00 |
| fenn | or not, depending on preferences | 13:00 |
| kanzure | that sounds like it comes later | 13:00 |
| genehacker | sounds like what they do on floor 5 etc | 13:00 |
| kanzure | there should be Screw.build or something, and it generates instructions based off of all of the build-time dependencies of Screw, plus special knowledge encoded into the screw.py class | 13:00 |
| kanzure | (this would be for "skdb build screw") | 13:00 |
| fenn | i still don't really know how to specify a particular part in a package | 13:01 |
| kanzure | in Screw.build, the "special" or "new" knowledge provided by the screw package would be represented as Action objects and various manipulations on them | 13:01 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with Package("screw").parts[0] ? | 13:01 |
| fenn | skdb build Package("screw").parts[0] ? | 13:01 |
| fenn | that's awful | 13:02 |
| kanzure | do screws in the source data in the screw package have any particular names? | 13:02 |
| fenn | there is a method for parsing a screw description | 13:02 |
| kanzure | hm, they presently do not | 13:02 |
| fenn | like 1/4-20x3 | 13:03 |
| genehacker | add thread | 13:03 |
| kanzure | i find it weird that in screw/data.yaml and lego/data.yaml there's no names for any of the parts | 13:03 |
| fenn | but there's more to it.. i guess you really want to specify a catalog number | 13:03 |
| genehacker | catalog number? | 13:03 |
| kanzure | if there was something like "in data.yaml there is cool-screw, usual-screw, bad-screw, funny-screw", then you would say "skdb build screw funny-screw" | 13:04 |
| fenn | i think lego should eventually use either ldraw + color or lego company number | 13:04 |
| kanzure | actually how about this | 13:04 |
| fenn | there's no mapping from ldraw to lego numbers though | 13:04 |
| genehacker | when I want a screw, I usually ask for a certain size, style, and thread | 13:04 |
| kanzure | "skdb build screw" calls Screw.build, and the "build" method gets the next parameter on the CLI args list | 13:04 |
| kanzure | then it can parse it however it wants | 13:04 |
| kanzure | so in the case of a screw it could be some technical specification | 13:04 |
| kanzure | in the case of a lego it could be a lego group id number or ldraw id | 13:05 |
| genehacker | yeah | 13:05 |
| fenn | so.. in general what does this mean? | 13:05 |
| fenn | say i'm sitting down to make something | 13:05 |
| kanzure | you wanted to specify a particular part | 13:05 |
| fenn | do i have to look at the documentation for each package just to use it? | 13:05 |
| kanzure | this is how you specify a particular part to the "skdb build" program | 13:05 |
| kanzure | no | 13:06 |
| kanzure | "skdb build screw" should result in a generic unspecified screw | 13:06 |
| fenn | how can you build a generic screw? | 13:06 |
| kanzure | the "default" of the screw package | 13:06 |
| kanzure | whatever Screw.__init__ says is a default screw | 13:06 |
| fenn | why a default? that's useless | 13:06 |
| kanzure | well why don't you know what you're doing? | 13:06 |
| fenn | because you're a clueless newbie | 13:06 |
| fenn | you want a list of stuff that's available to tab through | 13:07 |
| kanzure | you're probably following instructions though | 13:07 |
| fenn | bah | 13:07 |
| kanzure | you'd not be following instructions? | 13:07 |
| fenn | no | 13:07 |
| fenn | what kind of newbie are you? | 13:07 |
| kanzure | :( | 13:07 |
| kanzure | i guess "skdb build screw" could spit out some options for you | 13:07 |
| fenn | gnu readline can do all the tab completion stuff | 13:08 |
| genehacker | skdb build M8 machine screw stainless steel | 13:08 |
| kanzure | m8? | 13:08 |
| fenn | sigh | 13:08 |
| genehacker | it's metric screw size | 13:08 |
| * kanzure checks skdb | 13:08 | |
| kanzure | 120ksi? | 13:08 |
| genehacker | NO | 13:09 |
| genehacker | NO | 13:09 |
| genehacker | NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO | 13:09 |
| genehacker | that's not metric | 13:09 |
| genehacker | BAD | 13:09 |
| genehacker | kips square inch | 13:09 |
| genehacker | BAD | 13:09 |
| genehacker | sorry for the outburst but the imperial system of measurements is driving me iasne | 13:10 |
| kanzure | i don't know how to implement tab completion in this context | 13:11 |
| kanzure | what i was hoping to talk about though was how the Screw.build method would be written | 13:12 |
| kanzure | consisting of calls to other packages' .build methods, plus "new information" provided by the screw package | 13:12 |
| kanzure | which i guess would be made up of Action, CompoundAction, PrimitiveAction objects or something? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | and then you just return a list of these actions in a sequence ? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | (and this is then converted into either human readable text or machine code depending on the requested output, but we get to ignore this for now) | 13:13 |
| fenn | "just" | 13:13 |
| kanzure | return my_list | 13:13 |
| fenn | it's not a list, it's a tree | 13:13 |
| fenn | you have to find the critical path | 13:13 |
| fenn | ffs look up critical path | 13:13 |
| kanzure | what are the branches in the tree | 13:13 |
| fenn | the different things you have to do | 13:13 |
| kanzure | er, what are the nodes? | 13:14 |
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| fenn | we can add the flour to the salt, or the butter to the sugar | 13:14 |
| fenn | where you combine stuff | 13:14 |
| kanzure | are those two actions interchangeable, or they can be done in any order? | 13:15 |
| fenn | they could be done in any order | 13:15 |
| kanzure | so multiple branches means multiple things that can be done in no particular ordre | 13:16 |
| kanzure | *order | 13:16 |
| fenn | right | 13:16 |
| kanzure | then build() should return a list of branch objects | 13:17 |
| fenn | can you think of any recipes that are graphs? | 13:19 |
| fenn | all i can come up with is separating egg yolk :( | 13:19 |
| kanzure | this is not a skill i'm familiar with | 13:19 |
| kanzure | a recipe has to preserve causality | 13:21 |
| kanzure | so a directed graph would mean that you end up with a step that is impossible | 13:21 |
| kanzure | (and an undirected graph representing a recipe would be useless) | 13:21 |
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| fenn | directed != cyclic | 13:25 |
| kanzure | if it doesn't connect back on itself then it's just a tree | 13:25 |
| fenn | imagine you're making a meringue cake | 13:25 |
| * kanzure goes to martha-stewart-unlimited.com | 13:25 | |
| fenn | the yolk goes into the cake batter, and the whites go into the meringue | 13:25 |
| fenn | they come from the same egg | 13:25 |
| fenn | you don't start off with a yolk you start with an egg | 13:26 |
| fenn | then the ingredients eventually get recombined into a cake | 13:26 |
| fenn | that's a graph | 13:26 |
| kanzure | i think the actions should be the nodes | 13:26 |
| fenn | why? | 13:26 |
| fenn | the way i think of it, actions are edges and states are nodes | 13:27 |
| genehacker | we want to be cyclic in the future | 13:27 |
| genehacker | but if you're making cake | 13:29 |
| genehacker | that's not necessary | 13:29 |
| kanzure | if actions are nodes, you get to have subactions and weird graphs making up these "actions" | 13:30 |
| kanzure | this is more of an aesthetic argument | 13:30 |
| fenn | genehacker: no you don't want a cyclic recipe, that violates causality | 13:30 |
| kanzure | 1. submit article to slashdot | 13:30 |
| kanzure | 2. get it to the front page | 13:31 |
| kanzure | 3. ??? | 13:31 |
| kanzure | 4. profit | 13:31 |
| kanzure | 5. submit article to slashdot | 13:31 |
| kanzure | i think i did that wrong | 13:31 |
| fenn | yes | 13:31 |
| kanzure | i view recipes and instructions as just another form of computer code (except we want a particular language to be spit out in the end) | 13:32 |
| kanzure | so when i think about code, i visualize the statements as nodes | 13:32 |
| genehacker | I do | 13:32 |
| kanzure | aren't there graph-representations of programs? | 13:32 |
| genehacker | I WANT A CYCLIC RECIPE! | 13:32 |
| genehacker | because if it's cyclic it's a replicator | 13:33 |
| kanzure | http://www.totalviewtech.com/support/documentation/tips/images/CallGraph.png | 13:33 |
| kanzure | http://pycallgraph.slowchop.com/ | 13:34 |
| fenn | genehacker: no you're wrong | 13:36 |
| fenn | genehacker: that's a cyclic dependency/functionality graph | 13:36 |
| fenn | genehacker: a replicator "recipe" would just keep scrolling down the page forever | 13:36 |
| kanzure | we keep running into this problem in different domains | 13:38 |
| kanzure | trouble deciding which is the node and which is the edge | 13:38 |
| kanzure | (and somehow i always seem to have the opposite stance as you?) | 13:39 |
| fenn | it's usually obvious after you think about it for a while | 13:39 |
| fenn | if you have multiple "thingies" connected to one thingie, the multiples should be the arcs | 13:39 |
| kanzure | so you think that the edges should be the actions and the nodes are states? | 13:40 |
| fenn | a state is a single thingie | 13:40 |
| fenn | you can have multiple simultaneous actions leading to a state | 13:40 |
| fenn | so, which one is the arc? | 13:40 |
| kanzure | "multiple simultaneous actions" could just be a single action | 13:40 |
| fenn | (i hate calling it arc btw, just shows how far campbellism has rotted my brain) | 13:40 |
| kanzure | i'm still an edge fan :) | 13:41 |
| fenn | ok please describe the opposite then | 13:41 |
| kanzure | each node is an action (possibly a compound action) | 13:42 |
| fenn | where somehow an action is a node and (something?) is the edge | 13:42 |
| kanzure | the edge just tells you what's next | 13:42 |
| kanzure | the edge either is "away" or "to" the current node | 13:42 |
| fenn | why bother with the edge then | 13:42 |
| fenn | just a series of actions | 13:42 |
| kanzure | how would you connect actions or steps? | 13:42 |
| fenn | magical nothingness | 13:42 |
| kanzure | because it's not a series, it could be in parallel | 13:42 |
| kanzure | i.e., you get your list of edges pointing "away" | 13:43 |
| kanzure | and that's a list of different things you can be doing in no particular order | 13:43 |
| fenn | i still don't follow | 13:43 |
| fenn | edges pointing away? | 13:43 |
| kanzure | an edge is directed, it has a direction | 13:43 |
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| fenn | concrete example please | 13:44 |
| kanzure | consider two nodes: make screw, assemble plastic crap | 13:44 |
| kanzure | in this case "make screw" (node 1) must point to the other one | 13:44 |
| kanzure | going the other way around would be useless | 13:44 |
| kanzure | (or impossible) | 13:44 |
| fenn | how do you know that? | 13:45 |
| kanzure | well in this case i'm assuming the plastic crap is assembled with a screw | 13:45 |
| fenn | you have no record of state so you don't know whether the screw exists or not | 13:45 |
| kanzure | no we assume that you're following the steps and actually doing it | 13:45 |
| fenn | but how do you know you have to make the screw first before assembling something else? | 13:46 |
| kanzure | because that's what the build() instructions tell you to do | 13:46 |
| fenn | well how do they know it?? | 13:46 |
| fenn | you see what i'm getting at? | 13:46 |
| kanzure | no | 13:46 |
| fenn | i dont want to have to program a whole crapload of assumptions into the system | 13:47 |
| fenn | it should be able to figure out what order the steps go in | 13:47 |
| kanzure | what steps? | 13:47 |
| fenn | the actions | 13:47 |
| kanzure | where are the actions written down? | 13:47 |
| fenn | in some code somewhere | 13:47 |
| fenn | in a dict of functionalities provided by that package | 13:48 |
| kanzure | alright so i can see the benefit of having states | 13:49 |
| kanzure | but, you could just pass the entire "tree" up to that point to the next node (action) and say, "this is what you have. whatever this builds, this is what you have" | 13:50 |
| kanzure | so it's just passing the overall "scene" (what's being manipulated) | 13:50 |
| kanzure | why does the "state" have to be a node or related to the graph at all, is what i'm asking | 13:51 |
| fenn | because actions transform states | 13:51 |
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| fenn | otherwise you're going from nowhere to nowhere, and passing along your memory on the side | 13:52 |
| fenn | that's just whack | 13:53 |
| kanzure | states in a tree don't make sense because the branches represent "different actions", so how can you have two different states under different branches | 13:53 |
| fenn | i feel like i missed some computer science class that would have provided me with the words to totally obsolete this argument | 13:54 |
| fenn | well the states would be incomplete.. i.e. only keep track of the diffs | 13:55 |
| fenn | maybe i shouldnt have said that | 13:55 |
| fenn | i'm still trying to figure out what you just said | 13:56 |
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| kanzure | you can do either "group of actions #1" or "group of actions #2", these are two branches in your tree. under these branches, as you follow them donw, you have nodes that represent the states | 13:56 |
| kanzure | *down | 13:57 |
| fenn | ok | 13:57 |
| kanzure | but there's really only one state isn't there? | 13:57 |
| fenn | no | 13:57 |
| fenn | say you have two cooks | 13:57 |
| fenn | you could follow both branches at the same time right? | 13:57 |
| kanzure | yes | 13:58 |
| fenn | what if one cook lags behind a little bit, does it matter? | 13:58 |
| fenn | no, the two branches are independent causal domains | 13:58 |
| kanzure | ok | 13:58 |
| fenn | what if you did one branch first and then the other branch? what if you did it the other way around? | 13:58 |
| fenn | you end up with the same thing | 13:58 |
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| fenn | if you ignore everything that isn't being changed (not in the causal domain) then the states are identical regardless what order you do them | 13:59 |
| kanzure | sure | 14:00 |
| fenn | making apple pie; the state on the crust branch ignores the apples; likewise the apple cutting branch ignores the crust making | 14:01 |
| fenn | but when you combine the apples and the crust you have to keep track of both of them | 14:01 |
| fenn | what is this principle called? | 14:01 |
| kanzure | is merging two states an action? | 14:06 |
| kanzure | (when you have to keep track of both of them) | 14:06 |
| fenn | yes | 14:06 |
| fenn | merging states is not an action in its own right; its a consequence of an action which uses things from both states | 14:06 |
| kanzure | an action is an edge though? | 14:07 |
| kanzure | i guess you can have two actions dangling off of each state, and they both point to a node (the merged state) | 14:08 |
| fenn | you mean one action dangling off each state | 14:08 |
| kanzure | yes sorry | 14:08 |
| fenn | crust on the left, apples on the right | 14:08 |
| fenn | one edge from each to the filled crust | 14:08 |
| fenn | the apples would be 'added' and i guess the crust would be instructed to "just sit there and enjoy it, dammit" | 14:09 |
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| fenn | the thing i dont like about the compucook recipe tree is it has both ingredients and actions as nodes | 14:11 |
| kanzure | is cooking assembly? | 14:13 |
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| fenn | not entirely | 14:14 |
| kanzure | do you build or assemble a sandwich? | 14:14 |
| fenn | in fact i'd say it's mostly "aggregation" | 14:15 |
| fenn | a sandwich has some structure | 14:15 |
| fenn | mashed potatoes do not | 14:15 |
| kanzure | ok so we call some_package's "build" method, it calls all of the build methods (in some order) for the packages it depends on, and adds in a little extra information (other Action objects or something) to connect the graph or tree together | 14:18 |
| fenn | some methods (assembly for example) would call multiple build methods.. that's what connects the tree together | 14:19 |
| fenn | so pie.build() calls crust.build() and apples.build() | 14:20 |
| fenn | as well as some other stuff like 'throw it all together' | 14:20 |
| kanzure | i could imagine that if a package depends on X and Y, the build method might look like this: "state1 = X.build(); state2 = Y.build(); retu" | 14:20 |
| kanzure | and then combine the two states somehow with an action | 14:20 |
| xp_prg | my way is sooooo much simpler than this | 14:21 |
| xp_prg | just fyi | 14:21 |
| fenn | go away | 14:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/action.py | 15:34 |
| kanzure | i think ##resulting_tree.add(crust) should be uncommented | 15:35 |
| kanzure | and the "workspace" that i talk about above that (line 39) is not the same as WorkSpace or WorkSurface or whatever | 15:35 |
| kanzure | ok fixed | 15:36 |
| kanzure | hm there's no order specification going on here | 15:38 |
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| kanzure | reactome.org survey http://tinyurl.com/l48zzq | 16:58 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(human_modeling) | 17:03 |
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| * drazak sets up 48 tubes of pcr | 17:44 | |
| kanzure | lame | 17:49 |
| genehacker | duck? | 17:51 |
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| kanzure | http://monsterden.net/software/ragdoll-pyode-tutorial | 18:06 |
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| xp_prg | use the blender bullet physics engine | 18:31 |
| xp_prg | it has a python interface | 18:31 |
| xp_prg | it is way better | 18:31 |
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| nalioth | kanzure: what's this channel about? | 18:39 |
| kanzure | we're making "apt-get but for hardware", so it's mostly development and some mad science musings | 18:41 |
| nalioth | are you developers? | 18:41 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:41 |
| nalioth | developers for hplusroadmap, i mean . . | 18:42 |
| kanzure | yeah | 18:42 |
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| nalioth | hi mquin | 18:43 |
| nalioth | kanzure: submitting the GRF will get you ops in the channel, at least (if the GRF can be validated) | 18:43 |
| nalioth | with a fully researched and completed GRF, you'll have cloaks and such, too | 18:44 |
| kanzure | does the "request type" page have to be filled out? | 18:45 |
| nalioth | all the fields should be filled in | 18:45 |
| kanzure | "Approved By"? | 18:46 |
| kanzure | ah, nevermind | 18:46 |
| kanzure | okay thanks, it's in the queue now | 18:47 |
| drazak | my pippeting hand cramped :S | 19:15 |
| kanzure | isn't this what robots are for? | 19:17 |
| drazak | we have no robots | 19:17 |
| drazak | I depressed the pipette button ~1000 timese today | 19:17 |
| kanzure | what university again? brown? | 19:17 |
| drazak | university at buffalo | 19:17 |
| kanzure | right right | 19:18 |
| kanzure | nevermind | 19:18 |
| drazak | anyway, afk, going home | 19:18 |
| drazak | back | 19:34 |
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| kanzure | http://download.gna.org/cal3d/skeleton-low.avi | 20:12 |
| kanzure | http://www.py3d.org/pycal3d | 20:21 |
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| ncravens | heyers! | 20:22 |
| ncravens | so who's here to pwn me? | 20:22 |
| ncravens | or what's pwn'n on? | 20:22 |
| ncravens | so yes... manufacturing all of manufacturing knowledge applied to one setting. | 20:23 |
| ncravens | what about that business?! | 20:23 |
| ncravens | all you folks upload already or something? :P | 20:24 |
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| drazak | who are you | 20:25 |
| ncravens | is that really important? ;p | 20:26 |
| ybit | nathan cravens from om,biybio, and a poet on diyh+ iirc | 20:26 |
| ncravens | my name is nathan cravens and I'm a coffeeholic | 20:26 |
| ncravens | thanks ybit | 20:26 |
| kanzure | ncravens: just looking at cal3d | 20:26 |
| drazak | oh right | 20:26 |
| ncravens | what's that cal3d business? | 20:26 |
| drazak | you're /that/ nathan | 20:26 |
| ncravens | the GOOD one? ;p | 20:27 |
| drazak | I dunno | 20:27 |
| ncravens | must I perform a series of futile tasks to prove it?! | 20:27 |
| genehacker | oh dear | 20:27 |
| ncravens | ;p | 20:27 |
| genehacker | I believe it's time for my daily caffeine injection | 20:28 |
| ncravens | damn, that's hardcore !! | 20:28 |
| genehacker | not really | 20:29 |
| genehacker | it was a joke | 20:29 |
| genehacker | if you inject caffeine into your blood stream | 20:29 |
| genehacker | shakes set in faster | 20:29 |
| drazak | hah | 20:29 |
| drazak | actually iirc | 20:29 |
| drazak | the more efficient adenosine antagonists are the metabolites, which means it has to go through the liver, so it's only a little bit faster | 20:30 |
| ncravens | yes. that is a very vital aspect of transhumanism. | 20:30 |
| genehacker | anyway you came here to get pwn'd? | 20:31 |
| genehacker | on what? | 20:31 |
| ncravens | kanzure, dis this one ur tinkern with? : Jump to: navigation, search | 20:32 |
| ncravens | Cal3D is a skeletal animation based 3D character animation library written in C++ in a platform-/graphic API-independent way. Originally designed to be used in a 3D client for Worldforge, it evolved into a stand-alone product which can be used in many different kinds of projects. It supports combining animations and actions through a "mixer" interface, and work is currently underway to... | 20:32 |
| ncravens | ...integrate morph targets (interpolating between one mesh and another, using the same vertex sequence) easily into the system. | 20:32 |
| ncravens | yeah. pwn me. | 20:32 |
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| ncravens | pwnd on whatever is relevant, I suppose | 20:33 |
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| genehacker | huh? | 20:34 |
| genehacker | what are we investigating that for? | 20:34 |
| ncravens | because, we keep insisting we must! | 20:34 |
| ncravens | so what does ncravens and Cal#k3D have to do with things? | 20:36 |
| ncravens | or what does Cal3D do with skdb? | 20:37 |
| ncravens | what is skdb? ;p | 20:37 |
| genehacker | THAT'S CLASSIFIED | 20:41 |
| ybit | i find that telling people skdb is a super secret project to build a robot which follows my commands like kick the person where it hurts, the person tends to listen a lot better ;) | 20:43 |
| ncravens | hehe | 20:44 |
| genehacker | uh ybit, do you really go around telling people that? | 20:44 |
| ybit | genehacker: all the time ;) | 20:46 |
| ncravens | the folk in media ecology I've talked to don't seem to like to describe what 'it' is either cuz it too involves EVERYTHING, but that would be defining it now wouldn't it? ;p So we must discuss instead some aspect of it if it is worth discussing. . . its worth dependent on the problem encountered at the time, I suppose. | 20:46 |
| ybit | just ask the audience from the crowd in huntsville, right strages and nykodemus? :P | 20:46 |
| ncravens | huntsville teexxaas? | 20:46 |
| ybit | er, no. /me is borowwing the ut connection | 20:47 |
| ybit | borrowing, w/e | 20:47 |
| kanzure | nathan why are you talking to media ecology people | 20:47 |
| ncravens | cuz they thought I knew something | 20:49 |
| genehacker | about? | 20:50 |
| ncravens | hehe. I've only had a few messages with Matthew Fuller, that's the only media ecology person I've had communication with. | 20:50 |
| ncravens | I'm co-conspiring with Phoebe Moore and Michel Bauwens a workshop of that title, Media Ecology. | 20:51 |
| genehacker | what do you do nathan? | 20:51 |
| ncravens | It goes down in Manchester, Nov 3. | 20:51 |
| ncravens | as a profession? | 20:51 |
| genehacker | yeah sure | 20:52 |
| ncravens | I am a petty capitalist and recieve land rents for a house I sold. | 20:52 |
| ncravens | but that doesn't tell you much, does it? ;p | 20:52 |
| kanzure | nathan did you read the wiki page or have any questions about it? | 20:52 |
| ncravens | I read the wiki page sometime ago. | 20:53 |
| ncravens | has you revised it much in the past few months? | 20:53 |
| kanzure | here and there | 20:53 |
| genehacker | so you do h+ | 20:53 |
| ncravens | aiiight. I'll take a peep at it. | 20:53 |
| drazak | arrr shiver me timbers kanzure | 20:54 |
| ncravens | you directn that h+ business my way genehacker? | 20:54 |
| drazak | kanzure: one of my coworkers is probably raping heybryan right now | 20:54 |
| kanzure | so is everyone else | 20:54 |
| ncravens | I hear rape is a challenging sport. | 20:55 |
| drazak | :P | 20:55 |
| drazak | you need to put it on adl | 20:55 |
| drazak | the htdocs/books/ atleast | 20:55 |
| kanzure | right | 20:55 |
| drazak | how big is htdocs/books/? | 20:55 |
| kanzure | close to 670 GB | 20:56 |
| drazak | holyfuck | 20:56 |
| kanzure | a lot of the good stuff isn't on /books | 20:57 |
| drazak | yeah | 20:57 |
| drazak | where is it? | 20:57 |
| kanzure | it's this weird symlink thing | 20:57 |
| drazak | ah right | 20:57 |
| kanzure | well the rest isn't available over the web | 20:57 |
| kanzure | only certain things are linked into /books/ | 20:57 |
| kanzure | if you take a look at the index of it, you'll see some of the folders | 20:57 |
| kanzure | but that's not the actual representation of the hdd | 20:58 |
| kanzure | check this out: | 20:58 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/file-lists/ | 20:58 |
| kanzure | for instance: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/file-lists/leibniz-mnt-maxtor-software | 20:58 |
| drazak | can you send me some music? | 20:59 |
| ybit | how's that transfer of data to adl coming along? | 20:59 |
| kanzure | ybit: um, it'll happen tomorrow | 20:59 |
| drazak | you have some crap music | 20:59 |
| kanzure | drazak: all 130 GB of it? | 20:59 |
| drazak | :D | 20:59 |
| drazak | nah, not all of it | 20:59 |
| drazak | just a few artists | 21:00 |
| ybit | just 129gb | 21:00 |
| ybit | so we're fucked in getting to outerspace :-\ | 21:00 |
| genehacker | durr | 21:00 |
| ybit | at least the doing it yourself approach, unless you want to spend your entire life focused on it | 21:01 |
| ybit | couldn't hurt to think about it though | 21:01 |
| genehacker | well you can use nuclear propulsion | 21:01 |
| genehacker | I found a source of weapons grade plutonium | 21:01 |
| ybit | yeah, let me go get that from my parts lying around the house o.O | 21:01 |
| ybit | genehacker: did you now? where was it hiding? | 21:02 |
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| genehacker | there's only one problem though | 21:02 |
| genehacker | it's underwater | 21:02 |
| ybit | can i has 200km of extra propulsion for my weather balloon? | 21:02 |
| ncravens_ | hehe. who's using my name? | 21:03 |
| genehacker | in a sunken nuclear submarine that was carrying nuclear torpedoes | 21:03 |
| drazak | easy e, beck, 3 doors down, ACDC, Flogging Molly, your infected mushroom, pearl jam, R.E.M. | 21:03 |
| ybit | genehacker: oh right, you went diving | 21:03 |
| drazak | oh and smashing pumpkins | 21:03 |
| kanzure | drazak: that was from the ellington lab server | 21:03 |
| * ybit still wants to do that | 21:03 | |
| kanzure | that's what they listen to while pipetting | 21:03 |
| genehacker | hmm... don't listen to that type of music | 21:03 |
| genehacker | no I found a source of plutonium | 21:03 |
| ybit | Flogging Molly, hehe, haven't heard them in awhile | 21:03 |
| drazak | kanzure: sounds like me :P | 21:04 |
| drazak | kanzure: audioslave for an hour of pipetting | 21:04 |
| drazak | could you get me those artists though? | 21:04 |
| genehacker | I listen to chiptunes and videogame music | 21:04 |
| drazak | my waffle and what accounts lapsed | 21:04 |
| ybit | enrique iglesias for an hour of soldering, anyone? ;) | 21:04 |
| drazak | god no | 21:04 |
| drazak | my soldering music is much like my pipetting music | 21:05 |
| ybit | fuck you drazak, i never liked you anyway! ;P | 21:05 |
| drazak | rofl | 21:05 |
| ncravens_ | ff7 score. omg ;p | 21:05 |
| ybit | the metal gear solid soundtrack is nice, but my fav soundtrack atm: star trek the movie | 21:06 |
| genehacker | my favorite soundtrack is the soundtrack to Einhander | 21:06 |
| ybit | and the third matrix is mostly orchestral | 21:06 |
| ncravens_ | schindlers list ... gladiator ... solaris ... matrix soundtrack was damn good, that composer was born to score it... anything by Cliff Martinez I like. We're both drummers and into minimalism. | 21:07 |
| drazak | matrix soundtrack was good | 21:08 |
| drazak | hackers soundtrack was crap | 21:08 |
| ncravens_ | havnt seen that one | 21:08 |
| genehacker | HACK THE PLANET! | 21:08 |
| ncravens_ | #@K | 21:08 |
| drazak | :P | 21:08 |
| genehacker | there is one good song from the hackers sound track | 21:08 |
| genehacker | wait is that on kanzure's server? | 21:09 |
| ncravens_ | a bunch of damn silliness if you ask me. | 21:10 |
| drazak | genehacker: yeah I think I have it somewhere | 21:10 |
| ybit | no seeders for the Einhander soundtrack, it sounds decent | 21:11 |
| genehacker | it's hard to find | 21:12 |
| genehacker | it's pretty good though | 21:12 |
| genehacker | I stream it | 21:12 |
| ybit | first result from einhander soundtrack: http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/einhander-original-soundtrack | 21:12 |
| ybit | you can download the entire album, just have to register, bah | 21:12 |
| genehacker | is that legal? | 21:13 |
| drazak | rofl | 21:13 |
| ncravens_ | everythings legal these days . | 21:13 |
| drazak | what console was the game on | 21:13 |
| genehacker | I'm in a dorm and they sniff packets | 21:13 |
| ncravens_ | grand theft auto? | 21:13 |
| drazak | plastation? | 21:13 |
| genehacker | I think the playstation one | 21:13 |
| ncravens_ | the plantation station? | 21:13 |
| genehacker | I guess that was long ago | 21:14 |
| drazak | my chiptunes friend doesn't have chiptunes for it | 21:14 |
| genehacker | huh? | 21:15 |
| -!- ncravens [n=chatzill@s66-76-64-254.nacdcmta01.ncgdtx.tl.sta.suddenlink.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 21:17 | |
| ncravens_ | didn't even say hello :( | 21:17 |
| ncravens_ | bye alter-me ... I hope we're friends! | 21:17 |
| genehacker | ybit how high do you need to get to get something into space from a balloon? | 21:18 |
| genehacker | you might consider rockoons | 21:18 |
| * kanzure wakes up | 21:19 | |
| ncravens_ | kanzure uploaded! omg! ;p | 21:19 |
| kanzure | ncravens_: did you want to actually talk about something? | 21:20 |
| ncravens_ | yes. manufacturing everything in one place | 21:20 |
| kanzure | what is a place | 21:20 |
| genehacker | are you questioning the possibility of that? | 21:21 |
| ncravens_ | a room . | 21:21 |
| kanzure | why a room? | 21:21 |
| ncravens_ | no I want that in practice | 21:21 |
| kanzure | why not two rooms? | 21:21 |
| genehacker | because I question it too | 21:21 |
| ncravens_ | it could be two rooms, just near ... | 21:21 |
| ncravens_ | at least accessable from one place. | 21:21 |
| genehacker | how about something the size of a city ncravens? | 21:21 |
| ncravens_ | so it could embody the damn universe I suppose | 21:21 |
| genehacker | a city | 21:21 |
| ybit | genehacker: here's a relevant drawing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atmosphere_layers-en.svg | 21:22 |
| genehacker | besides there's noway to fit a steel I-beam continous casting machine in your garage, unless you have a DAMN BIG GARAGE | 21:22 |
| -!- dira [n=chatzill@de2-as1165.alshamil.net.ae] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] | 21:22 | |
| ncravens_ | a village, a star trek replicator, whatever. but the point is I'd like to discuss having something made after I've requested it online. If notin but bots and land rights are okay-doh-kay then we gets ourselves that something for that gratis. | 21:23 |
| ybit | so what are you actually wanting to talk about, what are your concerns/questions of manufacturing everything in one place? | 21:23 |
| kanzure | thanks ybit | 21:23 |
| ncravens_ | what tools do I need to do this in one place? | 21:23 |
| genehacker | I want that too | 21:23 |
| genehacker | basically you need a whole bunch of flexible manufacturing cells | 21:24 |
| genehacker | some of which do not currently exist | 21:24 |
| kanzure | nah | 21:24 |
| kanzure | everything already exists for this | 21:24 |
| kanzure | skdb is just aggregating it together | 21:24 |
| genehacker | not in flexible manufacturing cell form | 21:24 |
| kanzure | sorry i'm so slow | 21:24 |
| kanzure | go away | 21:24 |
| genehacker | anyway you'd probably need an automatic milling machine for starters | 21:25 |
| ncravens_ | and . does that exist today. can we put all the tools to make essential needs products in one place? preferably a room as it can be ... near. so a bot can easily do it or a bot can easily show you around the place so you can do it | 21:25 |
| kanzure | the room will not explode if you have lots of tools in it, if that's what you're asking | 21:25 |
| ncravens_ | ;p | 21:25 |
| ybit | ncravens_: check out the om thread for the listing of tools: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/browse_thread/thread/c53600ca2eb54cb/d2ea3ed57b903479 | 21:25 |
| genehacker | also don't expect it to be fast either | 21:25 |
| ncravens_ | who are you ybit? | 21:25 |
| ybit | and there were others comparing techshop, fablab, and something else | 21:25 |
| ybit | heath matlock | 21:26 |
| genehacker | heat treatment always takes time and it's sometimes necessary | 21:26 |
| ncravens_ | hi heath! omg ;p | 21:26 |
| genehacker | you'd also need a maskless lithography setup | 21:26 |
| ncravens_ | thanks for the link | 21:26 |
| ybit | oi nathan, np | 21:26 |
| genehacker | fortunately darpa funds a bunch of that | 21:26 |
| ncravens_ | meaning open source? | 21:26 |
| genehacker | no | 21:26 |
| ncravens_ | ;p | 21:27 |
| genehacker | meaning it's funded by the military | 21:27 |
| kanzure | nathan i get the feeling that you didn't actually read ybit's link | 21:27 |
| genehacker | ybit did you consider rockoons or lorentz propulsion? | 21:27 |
| genehacker | though for lorentz propulsion, you need what your launching to be moving fast | 21:28 |
| genehacker | or not | 21:28 |
| ncravens_ | this will do it? http://www.saulgriffith.com/Make/Make03.pdf hook folks up with the ability to make anything for life needs in urban areas even? | 21:29 |
| kanzure | why not read the skdb yaml file of that? | 21:29 |
| kanzure | sigh | 21:29 |
| kanzure | all of that data has been processed already.. don't reinvent the wheel. | 21:30 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/ultimate-tool-buying-guide.yaml | 21:30 |
| ybit | rockoons is neat genehacker, it's similar to what i was going for | 21:30 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon | 21:30 |
| genehacker | sugar rockets to space! | 21:30 |
| genehacker | that will help you | 21:31 |
| ncravens_ | its times like these netbooks are a hendernce | 21:31 |
| kanzure | http://sugarshot.org/ | 21:31 |
| * kanzure compiles cal3d | 21:31 | |
| genehacker | ah yes thanks kanzure | 21:31 |
| genehacker | I LAUGH AT YOUR PUNY NETBOOK | 21:31 |
| ncravens_ | heheh ;p he doesn't like that! don't make it angry!!! | 21:31 |
| ncravens_ | IT PWNS!!!!!!!!! | 21:31 |
| ncravens_ | it will try to download me if it gets angry. ; | 21:32 |
| ncravens_ | I don't know what that means! | 21:32 |
| jonathan__ | so yahoo finance had a "serious" article about the future of employment, when robots rule the world and can manufacture everything, whereby we all lose all jobs | 21:33 |
| ybit | thanks for the link kanzure, and thanks for holding it off yesterday, jackass ;) | 21:33 |
| genehacker | what do you mean jonathan? people still have to design things | 21:33 |
| kanzure | genehacker: not true | 21:34 |
| genehacker | too bad semiconductor design automation sucks and will NEVER get better in the future | 21:34 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: do you read open manufacturing ever? | 21:34 |
| * ybit is off to practice welding for a few mins | 21:34 | |
| jonathan__ | i have robots read that list for me | 21:34 |
| ncravens_ | why are water jet cutters so damn expensive? | 21:34 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: they like to talk about ways that it's not the end of the world if the concept of employment and/or money vanishes | 21:35 |
| genehacker | welding aka all of metallurgy in less than a cm | 21:35 |
| ncravens_ | yahoo wrote an article on everyone pwnd by robots? what's the link? | 21:35 |
| jonathan__ | money already vanished about 40-70% from a lot of baby boomer financial accounts this year | 21:35 |
| genehacker | ncraven: 1.because the people who buy them are willing to pay that much | 21:35 |
| genehacker | 2. because the market isn't that big | 21:35 |
| ncravens_ | its cuz they retarrd and was bein replaced. ;p | 21:36 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: yeah but they still believe in it or something | 21:36 |
| genehacker | 3. they run at high pressures | 21:36 |
| kanzure | anyway, back to work | 21:36 |
| jonathan__ | "The Real Problem with the Economy Is That It Doesn't Need You Anymore" http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/337340/The-Real-Problem-with-the-Economy-Is-That-It-Doesn%27t-Need-You-Anymore?tickers=dia,spy,xlf | 21:36 |
| ncravens_ | they need some damn competition. Bryan you buildin one of these things for $5 so you can gets that cash to make general purpose robots and such?! | 21:36 |
| jonathan__ | my apple stock is up 106% so yeah, I believe in it | 21:36 |
| genehacker | $5 are you crazy man? | 21:36 |
| ncravens_ | rofl ;p no! | 21:37 |
| genehacker | that would be impossible | 21:37 |
| genehacker | unless it replicated itself | 21:37 |
| kanzure | you people suck | 21:37 |
| genehacker | in which case it'd have to be free | 21:37 |
| genehacker | how so? | 21:37 |
| kanzure | why are we talking about money | 21:37 |
| kanzure | go away | 21:37 |
| ncravens_ | yeah. bryan. you said it | 21:37 |
| ncravens_ | ;p | 21:37 |
| jonathan__ | if we didnt have money you would be bartering with livestock and broom handles | 21:38 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: bullshit | 21:38 |
| kanzure | my computer works whether or not i wave a green bill in front of it | 21:38 |
| jonathan__ | what do you have of value? | 21:38 |
| genehacker | thank you for providing feedback, future actions will be changed | 21:38 |
| ncravens_ | my momma still talks to me even if she don't like me | 21:38 |
| ncravens_ | without being paid fer it | 21:38 |
| jonathan__ | someone has to | 21:38 |
| jonathan__ | cuz we wont | 21:38 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: then go away and be happy | 21:38 |
| kanzure | meanwhile i'll still be doing this | 21:39 |
| genehacker | inb4 how do you obtain rare mineral xxxxx | 21:39 |
| ncravens_ | you are using the term of payment rather flexibly I think . . . | 21:39 |
| ncravens_ | you make mineral xxxxx | 21:39 |
| ncravens_ | see: handwaved away! | 21:39 |
| genehacker | how do yo make yttrium? | 21:39 |
| ncravens_ | you find tf out, dawg. | 21:39 |
| genehacker | we don't have the technology to make even grams of yttrium | 21:40 |
| ncravens_ | or you find something that can find out for you | 21:40 |
| jonathan__ | I dont believe yahoo's article, of course | 21:40 |
| genehacker | strong nuclear force is strong | 21:40 |
| ncravens_ | how did you end up here jonny if you believe in market determinism?. | 21:40 |
| genehacker | one cannot make yttrium | 21:40 |
| jonathan__ | i believe in evolution | 21:41 |
| ncravens_ | why do we want yttrium? | 21:41 |
| kanzure | jonathan__ is here because he hacks around with us on diybio projects | 21:41 |
| kanzure | and he likes to think he knows what skdb is about | 21:41 |
| kanzure | also he gets shit done :) | 21:41 |
| ncravens_ | and he wants to own all the rights so he can have robots into tyrra foam and say, bwahahhaa, you didn't earn it?! | 21:41 |
| kanzure | um | 21:41 |
| jonathan__ | i dont know what it's about, I'm still waiting for the pitch, lol | 21:41 |
| kanzure | really? | 21:41 |
| ncravens_ | that good. | 21:42 |
| genehacker | yttrium is an essential element for things like TV phosphors and superconductors | 21:42 |
| genehacker | I should probably leave, I think I have little value here | 21:42 |
| jonathan__ | really | 21:42 |
| fenn | what am i supposed to be whining about? | 21:43 |
| jonathan__ | you have value if we grind you up, add salt, and make hamburgers | 21:43 |
| ncravens_ | do nano assemblers to do stuff they weren't originally programmed for -- in practice ? -- ones other than already existing pre-programmed via trial and error (perhaps?) biologies. | 21:43 |
| fenn | hmm maybe i should stick with the TV | 21:44 |
| genehacker | nanoassemblers do not exist or aren't practical for mass assembly currently | 21:44 |
| genehacker | please work out the atomic manipulation part to continue | 21:45 |
| jonathan__ | the interesting thing, is that a lot of los angeles runs on "not money" | 21:45 |
| ncravens_ | I ask, because another clever hand wave or straw man would be to say we will (very very soon now) have nanogadgets that take molecule a and molecule b and after a series of futile tasks, taadaah, yttrium! | 21:45 |
| kanzure | yttrium is an element | 21:45 |
| jonathan__ | all those actors, celebrities, rock stars... all dirt broke, "no money" | 21:45 |
| jonathan__ | they have the best "manufacturing" around | 21:45 |
| ncravens_ | so you need a gadget that assembles elements. | 21:46 |
| genehacker | that would be femtotech | 21:46 |
| genehacker | we're quite far from that | 21:46 |
| kanzure | ncravens_: you mean particle accelerators and nuclear reactors? | 21:46 |
| fenn | woo batman | 21:46 |
| ncravens_ | ;p | 21:46 |
| genehacker | as I said not even grams | 21:46 |
| ncravens_ | you'll have that ready by morning, right fenn?! | 21:46 |
| genehacker | I think you seriously overestimate our current capabilities | 21:47 |
| ncravens_ | ;p | 21:47 |
| kanzure | genehacker: nathan doesn't know what an element is. or at least, last year this time he didn't | 21:47 |
| jonathan__ | Intel announced today that they have a roadmap to 22 nm silicon | 21:48 |
| kanzure | okay | 21:48 |
| jonathan__ | that is freakin small | 21:48 |
| ncravens_ | there's stuff we both don't know right now ;p | 21:48 |
| kanzure | they're doing around 45 nm right now | 21:48 |
| jonathan__ | that kind of consistency across whatever size wafers they are using now, is amazing | 21:49 |
| ncravens_ | so you gonna kanzure for that information?! | 21:49 |
| genehacker | 35nm kanzure | 21:49 |
| ncravens_ | you gonna pay kanzure rather! | 21:49 |
| ncravens_ | pay up ;p | 21:49 |
| ncravens_ | cash money! | 21:50 |
| kanzure | what are you talking about? | 21:50 |
| ncravens_ | jonathan was amazed and he believes stuff costs money, so I'm just attempting to make a point. | 21:50 |
| genehacker | stuff does | 21:51 |
| ncravens_ | that's only because we are unable to DIY it. | 21:51 |
| kanzure | no | 21:51 |
| jonathan__ | stuff costs money, but not for reasons you're talking about | 21:51 |
| ncravens_ | well that's a vital part? | 21:51 |
| kanzure | not really | 21:52 |
| genehacker | I can't make a fossil of a trilobite | 21:52 |
| genehacker | neither can I make THE mona lisa | 21:52 |
| ncravens_ | lack of information sharing, boundary or land/material rights . . . | 21:52 |
| genehacker | can you make THE mona lisa ncravens_? | 21:52 |
| ncravens_ | who has the right then to OWN IT?! | 21:53 |
| kanzure | you should stop talking | 21:53 |
| kanzure | gah | 21:53 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: hey if you install skdb sometime i'd like to give you a tour through the python interpreter | 21:54 |
| jonathan__ | new release was posted http://search.cpan.org/~jcline/Robotics/ | 21:54 |
| kanzure | what's new? | 21:54 |
| ncravens_ | so in terms of scarcity. information needs to be shared and boundaries given permission for needs and reasonable wants. anything else missing from what's needed for post-scarcity other than the things left unsaid? | 21:54 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: is that different from the svn repo? | 21:55 |
| jonathan__ | it's the release code | 21:55 |
| kanzure | nothing not in svn | 21:55 |
| jonathan__ | right of course | 21:55 |
| genehacker | why not share information about everyone else then? | 21:56 |
| ybit | fenn, kanzure: do you have a collection of notes on pythonocc install? where are the cflags specified. /me sees no makefile, maybe it's in environment.py or specified in setup.py | 21:56 |
| kanzure | ybit: you mean http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/pythonocc ? | 21:56 |
| jonathan__ | I can stop by your lab tomorrow and give me a short code walkthru or etc | 21:56 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: what time will you be around for that? | 21:57 |
| kanzure | i need to leave at 4 pm and have class from 1 to 2. | 21:57 |
| ybit | kanzure: that covers all the problems you guys ran into? | 21:57 |
| kanzure | ybit: yes | 21:57 |
| * ybit is envious | 21:57 | |
| kanzure | ybit: i'm having trouble figuring out what problems you're encountering | 21:57 |
| ncravens_ | kanzure: did you find a nice patch of green? Still want me to drop in for a visit? | 21:58 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/f6aeda4f8 | 21:58 |
| kanzure | ncravens_: i have three weeks of free rent at the new apartment in october, but i don't know if fenn is going to be around or not | 21:58 |
| ybit | the preprocessor can't find the header file config.h | 21:58 |
| kanzure | ybit: oh that's easy actually | 21:59 |
| kanzure | that's actually the config.h file from opencascade | 21:59 |
| jonathan__ | i'll figure to head in early, not sure what time yet | 21:59 |
| ybit | right | 21:59 |
| kanzure | so if you have OpenCASCADE/6.3.0/ros/inc/config.h or something, grab that | 21:59 |
| ncravens_ | when do you want me to pwn Austin? | 21:59 |
| ybit | and specify it in the Makefile typically, but i don't see a makefile | 21:59 |
| kanzure | ybit: what? | 21:59 |
| kanzure | ncravens_: to be honest i have no clue | 22:00 |
| kanzure | if you really want to come i'm going to have to get you to learn python first or something | 22:00 |
| kanzure | or else i'm going to go out of my mind | 22:00 |
| ncravens_ | haha! ;p | 22:00 |
| ybit | specify it = adding the include path | 22:00 |
| kanzure | no not adding the include path | 22:01 |
| kanzure | i mean quite literally copying the file | 22:01 |
| ybit | oh, i just did ln -s | 22:01 |
| ncravens_ | I will need to write a program to translate my natural language into that gibberish! that should take a few 24 hours nights , right? | 22:01 |
| kanzure | i remember ssh'ing into leibniz once to grab the opencascade config.h file | 22:01 |
| kanzure | ybit: ok or that | 22:01 |
| ybit | but it's not working, so i'll try copying it | 22:01 |
| ybit | which i think i did already | 22:01 |
| kanzure | ybit: you should also search environment.py for "Ubuntu" | 22:02 |
| fenn | libstdc++2.10-dev: /usr/include/g++-3/strstream.h | 22:03 |
| genehacker | ncravens_ I suggest you read a few stories about monkey's paws and genies to understand the danger of doing such a thing | 22:03 |
| fenn | ybit did you get build-essential? | 22:03 |
| ncravens_ | ;p | 22:04 |
| ncravens_ | in a culture of sharing, good stuff can only happen -- pwnd. | 22:04 |
| genehacker | O'RLY? | 22:05 |
| ybit | fenn: yeah, one of the first things i grabbed, learned this early on in ubuntu | 22:05 |
| jonathan__ | I assume you've read Lord of the Flies | 22:06 |
| genehacker | so if you say you want a tank, what will it give you? | 22:06 |
| genehacker | afterall the word tank refers to several different things in the english language | 22:07 |
| ybit | oh, that was the wrong paste. guess i need to keep a record of progress through something like notes_on_install.txt | 22:07 |
| kanzure | ybit: fenn introduced me to his system once | 22:07 |
| kanzure | he keeps a bunch of installation notes in ~/remember/ | 22:07 |
| ncravens_ | Lord of the Flies is a tale of the scarcity mentality pwns. but its not a happy tale, nor a prefered one. even if it is a 'reality' . that is but one aspect of "human nature." | 22:07 |
| kanzure | well, scripts actually | 22:07 |
| kanzure | since you just copy your shell session into a script | 22:08 |
| ybit | heath@togetic:~/builds/pythonOCC/src$ pastebinit ohshit.txt | 22:08 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/f49e1aa91 | 22:08 |
| kanzure | and that should be what you have to do to install it (maybe) | 22:08 |
| genehacker | ncravens_ getting rid of scarcity doesn't moot politics | 22:08 |
| fenn | i don't copy my shell session since usually it takes multiple tries to get it right | 22:08 |
| ncravens_ | true | 22:08 |
| genehacker | this means that sharing doesn't always make things better | 22:09 |
| ncravens_ | genehacker: but post-scarcity will only amplify politics or at least grant more diversified boundary negotiations. | 22:09 |
| kanzure | ybit: that feels like you've got your include paths all whacky | 22:09 |
| ncravens_ | potentially | 22:09 |
| kanzure | ybit: was that scons or setup.py? | 22:09 |
| ybit | kanzure: which is what i'm trying to edit | 22:09 |
| ybit | setup.py | 22:09 |
| ncravens_ | the politics ahead in a post-scarcity world will depend on the folks living in it | 22:09 |
| genehacker | frankly I'm quite scared of what could happen if gene synthesizers get cheap and biological information is shared readily | 22:09 |
| kanzure | can you pastebinit your environment.py file? | 22:09 |
| kanzure | technically our environment.py files should be the same since we're all running the same system | 22:10 |
| ybit | heath@togetic:~/builds/pythonOCC/src/wrapper$ pastebinit environment.py | 22:10 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/f33cabe90 | 22:10 |
| * kanzure checksx | 22:10 | |
| kanzure | oh shit | 22:10 |
| kanzure | what's with this /opt/ bullshit? | 22:10 |
| kanzure | see line 145 and 146 | 22:10 |
| ncravens_ | cuz you may think people are born as SINNERS or bad folk if it were not for laws to restrict and such, but such things are only in place to keep you in line cuz things do not work as well as they ought. Bryan, Fenn, and you are pwning away at that sort of business. | 22:11 |
| kanzure | line 180 and 181 too look funny | 22:11 |
| kanzure | why does he use all of these absolute paths | 22:12 |
| kanzure | sigh | 22:12 |
| genehacker | no I don't think that | 22:12 |
| kanzure | (i'm talking about thomas paviot) | 22:12 |
| kanzure | ybit: do you have CASROOT defined in your environmental vars? | 22:12 |
| kanzure | in the shell i mean | 22:12 |
| genehacker | there is always a normal distribution that is all | 22:12 |
| -!- genehacker is now known as genehacker-afk | 22:12 | |
| ybit | nope, probably a good idea though, whoops | 22:13 |
| jonathan__ | lol.... we have nearly free manufacturing, it's called Walmart. look what kind of people frequent that place. | 22:13 |
| kanzure | free libre or free beer? | 22:13 |
| genehacker-afk | is it nearly free for people in africa? | 22:14 |
| genehacker-afk | (who don't make much money) | 22:14 |
| ncravens_ | there are some pre-scarcity nomadic folk remaining there right? if silly governments haven't pwnd them all . :( | 22:15 |
| jonathan__ | scarcity? | 22:15 |
| ncravens_ | the need for exchange trade of any kind | 22:16 |
| kanzure | ybit: you alive? | 22:17 |
| genehacker-afk | randInt(1,3) | 22:17 |
| ybit | kanzure: yeah | 22:18 |
| fenn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixaZi8y1Lfc | 22:18 |
| ybit | that didn't work | 22:18 |
| ybit | that being export CASROOT=/home/heath/builds/opencascade/ros | 22:18 |
| kanzure | it might need an extra slash at the end | 22:19 |
| fenn | so i'm wondering why physics always means they flop around like they're dead | 22:19 |
| fenn | did yo build your own opencascade? | 22:19 |
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| genehacker | because it's hard to make walking virtual humans | 22:20 |
| genehacker | though I've seen progams that do it | 22:20 |
| kanzure | the animation cycle only has to get it right once | 22:20 |
| * kanzure used to be into 3d animation until he realized he was bored | 22:20 | |
| fenn | but every other animation using cal3d shows them walking around and it's not just an animation cycle | 22:20 |
| genehacker | I think this uses opendynamics engine if I'm correct http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3M8QsXlwbk | 22:20 |
| fenn | if you look at this you'll see it's not just a looped animation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLzU23xJrhg | 22:25 |
| genehacker | so are you thinking of using that as a dynamics engine? | 22:26 |
| fenn | that = what? | 22:26 |
| genehacker | the dynamics engine they used? | 22:26 |
| fenn | i was just looking for realistic human kinematics | 22:26 |
| fenn | i dont even know what physics engine that was | 22:27 |
| fenn | there's another video with the skeleton running around in bullet physics | 22:27 |
| fenn | it doesn't interact with anything though | 22:27 |
| fenn | what's the point of that? | 22:27 |
| kanzure | time scons mode=build OCC_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/include OCC_CONFIG_H_PATH=/usr/include/opencascade OCC_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib | 22:28 |
| kanzure | ImportError: No module named Modules: | 22:28 |
| fenn | its in wrapper/ | 22:28 |
| kanzure | this is stupid | 22:29 |
| kanzure | do i move it out of wrapper/ ? | 22:29 |
| fenn | no | 22:30 |
| kanzure | then why did it not find it? | 22:30 |
| kanzure | what? | 22:30 |
| fenn | i think scons comes broken and you have to fix it | 22:30 |
| fenn | why are you using scons? | 22:30 |
| kanzure | because ybit's setup.py is broken too | 22:30 |
| ncravens_ | hmmm... to end scarcity ... use the right side of your brain... this gal is pretty good at using both . . . amazing . . . http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html | 22:30 |
| fenn | ncravens_: sorry dude, right brain sucks | 22:30 |
| kanzure | error: could not delete 'build/lib.linux-i686-2.5/OCC/Standard.py': Permission denied | 22:31 |
| kanzure | oops sorry | 22:31 |
| ncravens_ | fenn: but it prevents folk from reducio ad ablivionia! but yes. it can get it the way and make a mess of things. | 22:31 |
| jonathan__ | walmart already ends scaricity. go on welfare, get food stamps. then you are there. | 22:31 |
| ncravens_ | that model cannot hold up environmentally. . . ;p | 22:32 |
| fenn | it's not sustainable :) | 22:33 |
| ncravens_ | yeah. that business. | 22:33 |
| genehacker | ncravens_ why all this talk about ending scarcity when you could be working to end it? | 22:33 |
| genehacker | nanoassemblers don't exist yet | 22:33 |
| fenn | srsly | 22:33 |
| ncravens_ | talking is a part of working. | 22:33 |
| genehacker | you appear to have an internet connection get working | 22:33 |
| ncravens_ | to know what better to work | 22:33 |
| jonathan__ | i wouldnt mind setting up a bunch of hydroponics for food at my place here | 22:33 |
| ncravens_ | how bout a Walmart? | 22:33 |
| genehacker | have you considered spirulina | 22:33 |
| jonathan__ | yeah, spirulina is on the list | 22:34 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: utex.org has a list of the algae you can swing by and pick up at ut | 22:34 |
| genehacker | though spirulina might give you gout if you eat it all the time | 22:34 |
| fenn | hmm ok maybe cal3d is just looped animations.. wah | 22:35 |
| ncravens_ | genehacker: how do you define work and why must I adhere to it? | 22:35 |
| jonathan__ | i'll check out utex.org for sure | 22:35 |
| jonathan__ | once I have tubes built up | 22:35 |
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| ncravens_ | kanzure: jus let me know when you want me to drop in and make a mess of things. | 22:36 |
| kanzure | you mean tubs? | 22:36 |
| jonathan__ | no, acrylic cylinders or something | 22:36 |
| jonathan__ | bioreactor | 22:36 |
| fenn | silliness | 22:37 |
| genehacker | those go bad in the sun | 22:37 |
| jonathan__ | it would be for indoors | 22:37 |
| ncravens_ | sassiness | 22:37 |
| genehacker | you're exposing em to UV are you not? | 22:37 |
| genehacker | oh wait | 22:37 |
| fenn | just don't say you're doing it to grow fuel | 22:37 |
| jonathan__ | no fuel | 22:37 |
| ncravens_ | fishies. | 22:37 |
| genehacker | use clear tubing instead | 22:37 |
| jonathan__ | yes or clear tubes | 22:37 |
| genehacker | it's cheaper | 22:38 |
| genehacker | suggest using red LEDs | 22:38 |
| jonathan__ | fluorescent lights | 22:38 |
| genehacker | that's what algae works at | 22:38 |
| genehacker | is this a permanent food supply | 22:39 |
| ncravens_ | I'm at ihop around a bunch of marketing and business college student... heheheh e;p *snort* | 22:39 |
| genehacker | as in, in case of zombie attack? | 22:39 |
| genehacker | because I have some data that might be useful for you for that | 22:40 |
| ncravens_ | these folk grow zombies, not sure if they know how to pwn them, don't think so . | 22:40 |
| jonathan__ | permanent? dunno what you mean... i'd prefer if it was self-renewing though | 22:40 |
| jonathan__ | I figure it would be a mess to have to drain it and clean it and re-seed it continually | 22:40 |
| jonathan__ | I dont like aquariums for that reason | 22:41 |
| jonathan__ | too much work, I'm lazy | 22:41 |
| genehacker | when you grow stuff, sometimes it gets sick | 22:41 |
| genehacker | that's one of the rules of growing stuff | 22:41 |
| jonathan__ | spirulina grows in high salt | 22:42 |
| genehacker | oh dear | 22:42 |
| genehacker | that means your pump will have to be salt proof | 22:43 |
| genehacker | http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3g.html | 22:44 |
| jonathan__ | does peristaltic work? | 22:44 |
| genehacker | it might | 22:44 |
| jonathan__ | or is that flow rate too slow | 22:44 |
| genehacker | though a boat bilge pump might do the trick | 22:44 |
| fenn | i think it has to be peristaltic or it will rip up the cells | 22:44 |
| genehacker | oh I know | 22:46 |
| genehacker | you could use a LAZ0R PUMP!!!! | 22:47 |
| jonathan__ | letz use LAzERZ!@1! | 22:47 |
| jonathan__ | i think what's more important is the O2 / CO2 ratio | 22:48 |
| genehacker | P3t4w477 LAzerZ!!! | 22:48 |
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| kanzure | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lTKDCAF | 22:49 |
| kanzure | where was this from anyway? | 22:49 |
| kanzure | opencascade-draw ? | 22:49 |
| fenn | something like that | 22:49 |
| jonathan__ | uhhh that TED talk is whack | 22:50 |
| jonathan__ | "Jill Bolte Taylor's stroke of insight" uhhhh | 22:50 |
| kanzure | ldd is claiming that it doesn't exist (it does). maybe /usr/lib/opencas/libTKDCAF.so is not being looked at | 22:51 |
| jonathan__ | the kids of the 60's already tried that "stroke of insight" and look how they made a big mess of things... | 22:52 |
| genehacker | talk summary: | 22:53 |
| jonathan__ | drop acid, it's a shorter ride and less than $10 | 22:54 |
| ncravens | Taylor's story offers some interesting insight into describing cognition for artificial recognition. | 22:54 |
| jonathan__ | artifical recognition? | 22:54 |
| ncravens | ai if you like | 22:54 |
| genehacker | by entertainment price per hour the internet is cheaper | 22:54 |
| genehacker | by many magnitudes | 22:55 |
| genehacker | I did the calculations | 22:55 |
| ncravens | you calculated quality? | 22:55 |
| genehacker | yes the cost of various entertainment per dollar | 22:56 |
| genehacker | per hour entertained | 22:56 |
| jonathan__ | it's funny how those kinds of talks like hers, always condemn the left brain and glorify the right brain. what's up with that? | 22:56 |
| jonathan__ | society in general, glorifies right brain activity and deplores left brain | 22:57 |
| genehacker | I for one don't think it matters | 22:57 |
| kanzure | both of my brains are equally insert adjective | 22:57 |
| genehacker | I don't think we know shit about the brain | 22:57 |
| ncravens | prolly cuz market rationality exercises the calculating brain more. . . and that can reduce things into oblivion when left unchecked. | 22:57 |
| genehacker | hurr | 22:58 |
| ncravens | we know enough about the brain to make a reasonable mess of things. . . | 22:58 |
| ncravens | I'm not that we, of course. ;p | 22:58 |
| genehacker | how are you sure? | 22:58 |
| ncravens | via reduction dawgh. | 22:58 |
| jonathan__ | "by entertainment price per hour the internet is cheaper" that's kind of a ridiculous statement i'd say | 22:59 |
| genehacker | look at it | 23:00 |
| jonathan__ | it ignores the quality of the entertainment | 23:00 |
| ncravens | well, at least that statement has entertainment value, damn. | 23:00 |
| genehacker | it's true | 23:00 |
| genehacker | look at it | 23:00 |
| jonathan__ | a movie for example is good.. riding a rollercoaster is way better | 23:00 |
| ncravens | its damn entertaining indeed. but I suspect rates of amusement will vary! | 23:00 |
| genehacker | internet cost per month ~month is proportional to $30 | 23:00 |
| genehacker | a month contains a lot of hours | 23:01 |
| jonathan__ | it's also 2D | 23:01 |
| genehacker | besides you can download a rollercoaster experience off of one of the experience sites I won't name | 23:02 |
| jonathan__ | multiplayer doom gets my vote for entertainment -per- dolla | 23:02 |
| genehacker | oh? | 23:02 |
| jonathan__ | video game ~ $30. multiplayer experience.. very high | 23:02 |
| ncravens | that's just a measurement to keep things in 'order', but it does not have to exist if there were a more useful alternative. some like death, others, rollercoasters. call 'it' as you might. smb is my ideal form of high dollar play. | 23:02 |
| genehacker | I for one like snowcrash | 23:04 |
| genehacker | it's the best out there | 23:04 |
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| genehacker | kanzure do you have any molecular biology books on the server, if yes please send me a link | 23:05 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/books/Biology/ | 23:05 |
| genehacker | thank you | 23:06 |
| genehacker | would downloading from your server be a direct download? | 23:07 |
| kanzure | what? | 23:07 |
| genehacker | downloading something from your server? | 23:07 |
| genehacker | would it be a direct download? | 23:07 |
| ncravens | I just noticed that ultimate tools article was written by Saul Griffith.. well damn! | 23:08 |
| kanzure | ncravens: did you see the writeup of it in skdb? | 23:08 |
| kanzure | genehacker: um, i don't know how to answer you | 23:09 |
| genehacker | I don't think it is a direct download then | 23:09 |
| kanzure | what does "direct" mean | 23:09 |
| genehacker | I'm wondering if downloading from your server would be secure | 23:09 |
| kanzure | i wouldn't worry about that | 23:09 |
| ncravens | kanzure: not sure how to answer you, I've only looked at a wiki on skdb , you mean the write up in skdb the app? ;) | 23:10 |
| kanzure | ncravens: i mean the link i gave you for the ultimate-tool-buying-guide | 23:10 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/ultimate-tool-buying-guide.yaml | 23:10 |
| ncravens | kanzure: I gave it a gander. and giving it still. | 23:10 |
| fenn | it doesn't do anything. wah! | 23:10 |
| kanzure | you have to load it into python fenn | 23:10 |
| kanzure | you should know this | 23:10 |
| kanzure | or some other language of course | 23:10 |
| fenn | it still doesnt do anything | 23:11 |
| ncravens | how much does all this stuff weigh? | 23:11 |
| kanzure | that's true but it wouldn't be hard to write something that sorted by price or something | 23:11 |
| kanzure | ncravens: i don't think mass is given in mcmaster carr | 23:11 |
| kanzure | but we could probably guestimate | 23:11 |
| ncravens | kanzure: well that needs a fixn | 23:11 |
| genehacker | why don't you buy the tools and weigh them for us? | 23:12 |
| ncravens | kanzure: and size? | 23:12 |
| genehacker | that would help a lot | 23:12 |
| ncravens | kanzure: and combined size -- to see how big our 'basement' must be. | 23:12 |
| genehacker | the unfortunate thing is that not many companies provide THE ENGINEER'S UNIVERSAL GUIDE TO ALL THE PARTS WE SELL | 23:13 |
| ncravens | that's a problem. ;p | 23:13 |
| jonathan__ | companies make more $$ by hiding that. then resell the same thing multiple ways. | 23:13 |
| genehacker | AN ENGINEER'S UNIVERSAL TABLE FOR ____ usually refers to a magical table capable of providing all possible properties of ____ | 23:13 |
| ncravens | mr engineer company needs to fess up and say, here's how you do it yourself for none of that money stuff, so just make sure we get fed and have lovers and we'll be just fine. | 23:14 |
| genehacker | unfortunately the real world doesn't work like that | 23:14 |
| ncravens | and mr. academic and mr state need to fess up too. Smari is on mr state from what he tells me. | 23:14 |
| jonathan__ | technology moves, so the parts 10 years ago are not useful today. I got a whole drawer of worthless IC's now | 23:15 |
| genehacker | well fessing up is not only profitable but costly as it involves work | 23:15 |
| genehacker | it's also the lazier thing to do | 23:15 |
| ncravens | just show us what ya done. you got databases wits that. just 'share the wealth' | 23:15 |
| ncravens | sure dat profit margin goes down, but if everyone else does it, value goes up! | 23:16 |
| jonathan__ | it is getting much much better these days. used to be that you had to call texas instruments and send them $50 for a databook. now all the pdf's are free. | 23:16 |
| ncravens | and it cannot be forced. I got to add that as not to be labeled a Boshivec or something | 23:16 |
| genehacker | problem is | 23:16 |
| jonathan__ | some companies didnt even send databooks at all, unless you could prove you were a huge company | 23:16 |
| genehacker | there's no fixed standard for databooks | 23:17 |
| ncravens | you need a reader to compile dat information into a standardized databook | 23:17 |
| jonathan__ | there's a standard.. "conventions".. maybe you want digital is all | 23:17 |
| jonathan__ | databooks are unique to the parts, so it will be unique | 23:17 |
| ncravens | yeah. digital means potent for innovate. | 23:18 |
| jonathan__ | national semi has a lot more design info docs in each datasheet, whereas asia companies only give a table of specs | 23:18 |
| jonathan__ | the most valuable datasheets are the new ones, so if it was all digital, the symbols might not yet exist in the standard format, so then it breaks | 23:18 |
| jonathan__ | same as HTML specs, the new browsers are always breaking spec because they want "newer" features than the "agreed upon last year" spec | 23:19 |
| kanzure | /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/MoniTool_wrap.cpp: In function 'PyObject* _wrap_MoniTool_DataMapNodeOfDataMapOfTimer_Key(PyObject*, PyObject*)': | 23:20 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure this means that python-dev isn't installed | 23:20 |
| kanzure | but that doesn't seem to solve the problem | 23:20 |
| jonathan__ | many people believe adobe is evil for not opening pdf, but they did force everyone to adopt it, which unified to a digital format at least | 23:20 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 23:21 |
| ncravens | hmm so now to representing how to make the stuff that makes basic needs stuff, assuming we've properly defined what 'basic needs' means. Does that exist as a lovly document like the Makerzine doc? | 23:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: TKDCAF, TKIDLFront, TKTCPPExt | 23:21 |
| kanzure | ncravens: no that's what skdb is doing | 23:21 |
| genehacker | I really need the datasheets for 2 liter coke bottles | 23:21 |
| ncravens | kanzure: right :) | 23:21 |
| kanzure | ncravens: i think you should study the skdb data files | 23:21 |
| kanzure | and stop assuming we're morons | 23:21 |
| genehacker | I've heard it's possible to obtain them | 23:21 |
| jonathan__ | coke bottles? talk to the bottle co. oem's | 23:21 |
| ncravens | kanzure: wuts the link? | 23:22 |
| kanzure | ncravens: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb | 23:22 |
| kanzure | ncravens: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/ | 23:22 |
| genehacker | I need the threading | 23:22 |
| genehacker | also please study the difference between elements and molecules | 23:23 |
| genehacker | wikipedia.org | 23:23 |
| ncravens | okay. so skdb is the source for this 'how to' manufacturing that 'whatever' . . . and smari's tangible bit is to find where dohs materials is? | 23:24 |
| kanzure | no, smari is just repeating what we're doing | 23:24 |
| ncravens | isn't that silly talk? | 23:24 |
| kanzure | yeah i don't know why he's not in here any more | 23:24 |
| ncravens | why not COMBINE FORCES? | 23:24 |
| kanzure | he claims that he hates us or something :p | 23:24 |
| fenn | i don't know what smari is doing, but there appear to be 'where to get stuff' data | 23:24 |
| kanzure | ncravens: we already merged our repositories | 23:25 |
| kanzure | his code appears in skdb in http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/inventory/ i think | 23:25 |
| kanzure | and in http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/clients/ | 23:25 |
| ncravens | you guys are sassy as fuck, but what Smari jus gots to understand is he can't out-sass, that's not important. | 23:25 |
| kanzure | we're not sassy, just pissy | 23:25 |
| ncravens | WELL DAMN! | 23:25 |
| ncravens | isn't that worst? | 23:25 |
| genehacker | this thread of discussion isn't fruitful | 23:26 |
| ncravens | haha! | 23:26 |
| fenn | i'm sick of people talking at me | 23:26 |
| fenn | just shut up and email me the data already | 23:26 |
| ncravens | what data you needs? | 23:27 |
| fenn | well formatted data | 23:27 |
| ncravens | well formatted data of all the manufacturing process knowledge in the known? | 23:27 |
| fenn | yep | 23:27 |
| ncravens | you could have just said that, fenn. One second . .. . ;p | 23:28 |
| ncravens | its in the mail . . . | 23:28 |
| ybit | 23:27 < ncravens> well formatted data of all the manufacturing process knowledge in the known? | 23:28 |
| * ybit has already scanned mprg | 23:29 | |
| ybit | rtfm dammit ;) | 23:29 |
| kanzure | .. | 23:29 |
| fenn | here's a good example of how to go about making well formatted data http://www.anthus.com/Recipes/CompCook.html | 23:29 |
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| jonathan__ | anything newer than 1985? | 23:30 |
| ncravens | why not jus create a program that formats it to a prefered spec. just says: hellow web, I'm gonna find yah, cuz I know what manufacturing data is, and bewm, here you go fab geeks, now try to find dat materials business to do it. | 23:30 |
| fenn | linkump please? | 23:30 |
| fenn | because computers are not hyperactive ten year olds | 23:30 |
| genehacker | because we don't know how | 23:30 |
| kanzure | no because we don't have the data | 23:31 |
| jonathan__ | the data is not marked with metadata so it's impossible | 23:31 |
| kanzure | oh please | 23:31 |
| ncravens | so berners lee has a point, just share that stuff, dat data. | 23:31 |
| ncravens | DeepQA inkles that we can find it and compile it into an elegant format. | 23:32 |
| jonathan__ | can't even name digitized PDF's from the web... solve that first eh | 23:32 |
| fenn | it's not impossible it's just unreasonable to scrape together tiny crumbs when i know there's a whole loaf out there somewhere | 23:32 |
| ncravens | have you called manufacturing departments in universities and businesses to find out where the heck dat loaf is? | 23:33 |
| ncravens | using that old skool Skype voice thingy? | 23:33 |
| fenn | they are almost as clueless as you | 23:33 |
| ncravens | phds in manufacturing departments don't gots a clue? | 23:34 |
| jonathan__ | universities have no motivation to keep data preserved. it dies when people graduate. corporations spend a lot of effort to preserve the IP however | 23:34 |
| genehacker | yes kanzure has | 23:34 |
| ybit | where is wx.aui | 23:34 |
| kanzure | ybit: wxpython | 23:34 |
| fenn | that sounds familiar | 23:34 |
| ncravens | manufacturing departments need to use the internet ;p | 23:34 |
| fenn | was that a wx version problem or something? | 23:35 |
| genehacker | they do | 23:35 |
| ybit | wxPython | 23:35 |
| ncravens | isn't that what fab labs are supposed to do? what have they done in this regard. this is where having Smari here would be of help | 23:35 |
| kanzure | didn't i just say that | 23:35 |
| ybit | ya | 23:35 |
| ncravens | it blows my mind. so I had to repeat it. | 23:36 |
| kanzure | ncravens: no i'm not talking to you | 23:36 |
| kanzure | i'm trying to ignore you | 23:36 |
| ncravens | haha! | 23:36 |
| kanzure | ncravens: how about you just read the channel logs for a while? | 23:36 |
| kanzure | you have a few years to play catch up with | 23:36 |
| ncravens | yes | 23:36 |
| fenn | fab labs are an academic thing, sorta | 23:37 |
| fenn | in fact i dont think anyone really knows what's going on | 23:37 |
| fenn | wrt fab labs | 23:37 |
| ybit | hm, already grabbed python-wxtools python-wxgtk2.6 | 23:37 |
| kanzure | neil is probably winging it | 23:37 |
| ybit | maybe i should try 2.8 for the heck of it | 23:37 |
| kanzure | yeah iirc 2.8 is required | 23:37 |
| ncravens | neil could use a vacation | 23:37 |
| kanzure | he's a professor, half his year is a vacation | 23:38 |
| ncravens | so why is he so uptight and such.. he writes like a clear minded god. | 23:38 |
| ncravens | with the help of editing done by his students and collegues of course ;p | 23:38 |
| ybit | File "/home/heath/builds/pythonOCC/src/samples/Tools/InteractiveViewer/InteractiveViewer.py", line 54, in <module> | 23:38 |
| ybit | import wx.aui | 23:39 |
| ybit | ImportError: No module named aui | 23:39 |
| kanzure | ybit: yeah i know | 23:39 |
| kanzure | even with wx 2.8? | 23:39 |
| ybit | yep | 23:39 |
| kanzure | did you solve the PyObject errors? | 23:39 |
| ybit | those were? | 23:39 |
| kanzure | /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/MoniTool_wrap.cpp: In function 'PyObject* _wrap_MoniTool_DataMapNodeOfDataMapOfTimer_Key(PyObject*, PyObject*)': | 23:39 |
| ncravens | have you asked Niel where this loaf is or if he's thought of such things.. . surely? | 23:39 |
| kanzure | ncravens: neil won't talk with us | 23:39 |
| ncravens | kanzure: why not? | 23:40 |
| kanzure | he's a professor and ignores our emails | 23:40 |
| fenn | why don't you ask him | 23:40 |
| ncravens | he's ignored mine too ;p | 23:40 |
| kanzure | he has a reason to ignore you | 23:40 |
| ncravens | and what reason is that? ;p | 23:40 |
| kanzure | don't make me say it | 23:40 |
| ncravens | because I am this 'waste of time' business? | 23:41 |
| ncravens | well that wouldn't be so if he told where that loaf is and how to get it | 23:41 |
| fenn | what makes you think neil knows where some free database is that may or may not exist? | 23:42 |
| fenn | i know the data is out there, certainly.. but can i use it? probably not | 23:42 |
| ncravens | because surely he must have wondered such things enough to know of something similar. | 23:42 |
| genehacker | kanzure, is there a skdb assembly format that does the function of solidworks assembly files? | 23:43 |
| kanzure | ybit: did you not encounter that problem yet? | 23:43 |
| fenn | genehacker: no | 23:43 |
| kanzure | genehacker: we have assemblies | 23:43 |
| fenn | it doesn't exist yet | 23:43 |
| ncravens | so what amount of knowledge do you need to be 'satisfied'? And what percentage of the way have you compiled a 'sufficient' amount of manufacturing process data? | 23:43 |
| ybit | i'm looking at it now | 23:44 |
| fenn | the closest thing is the assembly graph | 23:44 |
| genehacker | but it can figure out how parts go together? | 23:44 |
| fenn | but that's just a graphviz file | 23:44 |
| ybit | MoniTool_wrap.cpp, line 7297, geezus fscking christ | 23:44 |
| kanzure | genehacker: yes right now it can figure out whether or not two parts are compatible and if certain ports or interfaces are compatible | 23:44 |
| kanzure | ybit: it's generated code :( | 23:44 |
| kanzure | ncravens: it's not a matter of a percentage .. it's just a matter of the fact that right now skdb has screws, threads and legos | 23:44 |
| genehacker | any two parts? | 23:44 |
| kanzure | genehacker: if they are defined in skdb yeah | 23:45 |
| kanzure | i told you about this yesterday | 23:45 |
| genehacker | ok | 23:45 |
| genehacker | I fail | 23:45 |
| kanzure | the idea of looking at a coordinate frame in a cad file | 23:45 |
| kanzure | and then extracting this information for use in skdb | 23:45 |
| kanzure | so you just have to put these little three coordinate axises at the spot of the orientation of the port on a part | 23:45 |
| ncravens | yes. . . | 23:45 |
| genehacker | could you direct me to an example of an assembly graph? | 23:45 |
| fenn | ncravens: i want a similar amount of knowledge in the database about each field as i could read in an afternoon | 23:45 |
| ncravens | fenn: what's yer words per minute? | 23:46 |
| kanzure | genehacker: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/connection_graph.png | 23:46 |
| fenn | for reading? well i'm pretty slow because i actually read what's there | 23:46 |
| kanzure | genehacker: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/lego_cgraph.png | 23:46 |
| genehacker | are those possible connection points? | 23:46 |
| genehacker | or connected points? | 23:47 |
| ncravens | ;p | 23:47 |
| kanzure | genehacker: in the second graph it should be more clear | 23:47 |
| ncravens | I'm slow at reading because I amplify what's not. | 23:47 |
| fenn | i should make another screenshot with both the 3d view and the icons | 23:47 |
| genehacker | that's good enough for what I'd like todo | 23:47 |
| kanzure | neat | 23:48 |
| genehacker | thanks | 23:48 |
| genehacker | though I don't know much about programming | 23:48 |
| ncravens | hmmm... so its a matter of creating things in cad based on physical laws and having that cad program break down the assembly points and spit out dat data on the web. . . . . . | 23:48 |
| * fenn stares at the ceiling | 23:48 | |
| kanzure | well if you have some STEP or IGES files, we can take a look | 23:48 |
| kanzure | fenn: try changing your relative angle | 23:48 |
| genehacker | here's what I want to do kanzure | 23:48 |
| * fenn braces for impact | 23:49 | |
| genehacker | I want to make something that figures out how to get to assembly of lego blocks | 23:49 |
| ncravens | it would also need to spit out what tools are need to assemble these points from the cad file. | 23:49 |
| genehacker | do you have descriptions of the interface? | 23:49 |
| kanzure | genehacker: yes fenn wrote out a lego grammar | 23:49 |
| kanzure | it covers the majority of lego interfaces | 23:49 |
| genehacker | does it have tolerances? | 23:49 |
| fenn | i also wonder why you're asking kanzure all this stuff and not me | 23:50 |
| genehacker | and force necessary for connection fenn? | 23:50 |
| ncravens | I'm asking you bofe. | 23:50 |
| kanzure | well there's this: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/lego/dimensions.yaml | 23:50 |
| kanzure | but that's not used any where yet | 23:50 |
| fenn | i estimated forces for stud but it's not a very accurate measurement | 23:50 |
| fenn | the fields are only filled in for 'stud' and 'anti stud' i think | 23:50 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 23:51 |
| fenn | multiply by number of studs | 23:51 |
| genehacker | I can see how that would be hard | 23:51 |
| fenn | nah it's not hard i just didnt have any measuring tools | 23:51 |
| ybit | right now i hate danielfalck, not really, just jealous he flippantly mentions that he has occ and pythoncc | 23:52 |
| fenn | i filled up a bottle of water and estimated the volume required to compress one stud :) | 23:52 |
| ybit | the he mentions mac, and i really do hate him | 23:52 |
| genehacker | perhaps we could use fit data to figure that out | 23:52 |
| kanzure | ybit: are you or are you not getting the PyObject errors? | 23:52 |
| kanzure | how are you getting the wx.aui errors? | 23:52 |
| genehacker | are legos interference fits or friction fits? | 23:52 |
| ybit | yes, i had to restart X just awhile ago | 23:52 |
| kanzure | sorry, what? | 23:52 |
| kanzure | yes to what? | 23:52 |
| fenn | genehacker: is there a difference? | 23:53 |
| ybit | xmonad likes to freeze on me in debian for some strange reason, and i don't care for debugging it atm | 23:53 |
| genehacker | no I guess not | 23:53 |
| fenn | genehacker: in any case i don't know the exact amount of interference so we just have to use the measurement data as-is | 23:53 |
| genehacker | lego looks like they may have data on this | 23:53 |
| ybit | that was from me attempting to launch /home/heath/builds/pythonOCC/src/samples/Tools/InteractiveViewer/InteractiveViewer.py not from /home/kanzure | 23:53 |
| kanzure | ybit: shouldn't matter where it's from | 23:54 |
| fenn | and how do you measure interference for something like a claw-hand? | 23:54 |
| genehacker | interesting | 23:54 |
| genehacker | lego stud holes are slightly beveled on the inside | 23:55 |
| fenn | you know using a lego figure for the instructional demonstrations seems much easier than messing around with cal3d | 23:55 |
| genehacker | interference for a claw hand? | 23:55 |
| ybit | that's true, but i mentioned what user dir because there are certain parts of the install that user heath hasn't reached | 23:55 |
| kanzure | ybit: oh so you're trying to skip ahead | 23:55 |
| ybit | for the fun of it, sure i was | 23:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: i want to be darth vader | 23:56 |
| ybit | anywho /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/MoniTool_wrap.cpp:7297: error: invalid initialization of reference of type 'char*&' from expression of type 'const char*' | 23:56 |
| kanzure | do you get that in heath's copy too? | 23:56 |
| ncravens | sounds as if Saul had a good childhood, at least, the 'right' sort of childhood to be doin' what he does . . . http://makezine.com/03/ultimate/ | 23:56 |
| ybit | no, in kanzure | 23:56 |
| kanzure | do you get something else in heath's copy? | 23:56 |
| kanzure | i guess you would | 23:56 |
| fenn | yes saul is a badass can we please never bring up the subject again? k thx | 23:56 |
| ybit | let's see | 23:56 |
| kanzure | since the environment.py file is different | 23:56 |
| kanzure | nevermind ybit :) | 23:56 |
| ncravens | rofl! | 23:57 |
| genehacker | woo they have interference fit data calculation formulaE | 23:57 |
| ybit | um, yeah i do :P | 23:57 |
| genehacker | oh dear god | 23:57 |
| ybit | heath@togetic:~/builds/pythonOCC/src$ python setup.py build -NO_GEOM | 23:57 |
| ybit | Building pythonOCC-path_to_0.4 for linux2. | 23:57 |
| ybit | running build | 23:57 |
| ybit | running build_py | 23:57 |
| ybit | copying OCC/Standard.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.5/OCC | 23:57 |
| ybit | error: could not delete 'build/lib.linux-i686-2.5/OCC/Standard.py': Permission denied | 23:57 |
| ncravens | does Saul talk to you folx or answer his e-mail? | 23:57 |
| kanzure | no | 23:57 |
| * ybit hasn't attempted to contact saul | 23:58 | |
| ncravens | Damn. its a wonder Smari even talks to me. . . . | 23:58 |
| ybit | i'm sure he would stop what he was doing to answer every question have though | 23:58 |
| ncravens | that would save some time/effort . . . ? | 23:58 |
| fenn | ybit: how is it you know what danielfalck is doing? | 23:58 |
| genehacker | fenn are nearly all bar, plate, and brick lego block in skdb? | 23:59 |
| ybit | i monitor every flippin channel on freenode? | 23:59 |
| fenn | are you constantly hitting reload or something? | 23:59 |
| fenn | genehacker: no, there are only 4 bricks atm | 23:59 |
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