| --- Day changed Thu Sep 24 2009 | ||
| kanzure | genehacker should feel free to add new bricks to skdb | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | genehacker: i meant to write a generator script to ease the process of adding bricks, but never got around to it | 00:00 |
| genehacker | how do I add bricks to skdb? | 00:00 |
| * kanzure is working on ybit's issues at the moment | 00:00 | |
| fenn | genehacker: keep in mind there are sth like 3000 brick shapes available in ldraw already | 00:00 |
| ncravens | now I'm understanding why so many materialist philosophers are from Australia. . ;p | 00:00 |
| genehacker | yeah I know | 00:00 |
| * ybit is changing monitool_wrap.cpp atm | 00:00 | |
| kanzure | hah | 00:01 |
| kanzure | lame | 00:01 |
| fenn | genehacker: do you have heekscad installed? | 00:01 |
| genehacker | yes | 00:01 |
| genehacker | there are only several essential part types | 00:01 |
| kanzure | ybit: tell me when you're done i guess | 00:01 |
| kanzure | then run: g++ -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DHAVE_LIMITS_H -DCSFDB -DOCC_CONVERT_SIGNALS -DLIN -DLININTEL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D__PYTHONOCC_MAXINT__=2147483647 -I/usr/lib/opencascade -I/home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin -I/usr/include/python2.5 -c /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/MoniTool_wrap.cpp -o build/temp.linux-i686-2.5/home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/MoniTool_wrap.o -O0 -march=i686 | 00:01 |
| fenn | genehacker ok see this screen shot? http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/lego_interfaces_technic.png | 00:02 |
| genehacker | stud, tube, axle, and the anti interfaces there of | 00:02 |
| fenn | those coordinate systems define where the interfaces are | 00:02 |
| fenn | now, it turns out the cad models i have are scaled wrong or something | 00:02 |
| ncravens | Mother: "You'll meet some fat-ankled, loud-mouthed American girl and I'll never get to see my grandchildren!" | 00:02 |
| ncravens | Father: "What if MIT doesn't have as good a workshop as our own? What will you do?" | 00:02 |
| fenn | MIT didn't have as good a workshop i bet | 00:02 |
| ybit | seems it changed on disk since i've been in here, i'll let you do whatever it is you were going to do | 00:03 |
| genehacker | cool so you have a cad file for that type of brick right? | 00:03 |
| ybit | kanzure^ | 00:03 |
| kanzure | ybit: no please go ahead, i haven't touched it | 00:03 |
| genehacker | .yaml file I mean | 00:03 |
| ybit | then who touched it dammit | 00:03 |
| ncravens | prolly not, like I'd know what that was, of course. ;p | 00:03 |
| kanzure | not me said the little red hen | 00:03 |
| * ybit is going to kill pikachu | 00:03 | |
| ybit | heath@togetic:~$ cat /home/kanzure/pikachu_is_dead.txt | 00:03 |
| ybit | pikachu couldn't handle the devastating seismic toss from togetic | 00:03 |
| fenn | genehacker: skdb/import_tools/heeks_coords.py will convert a .heeks with those coordinate systems to .yaml | 00:03 |
| fenn | then you get to label them | 00:04 |
| genehacker | ok | 00:04 |
| fenn | i'd much rather label them in heekscad but i havent done that yet | 00:04 |
| genehacker | well if you have a yaml for that brick type then why not lengthen it for other brick types? | 00:04 |
| genehacker | or why don't I do that? | 00:04 |
| fenn | the numbers are pretty easy to figure out | 00:05 |
| genehacker | one just has to put coordinate systems in holes in heekscad? | 00:05 |
| fenn | right, but the way you do that is by editing coordinates | 00:05 |
| fenn | otherwise it crashes and makes a mess | 00:05 |
| kanzure | ybit: i need to sleep but i'll bitchslap togetic in the morning | 00:05 |
| genehacker | well if you can characterize geometry you might be able to automate it | 00:06 |
| fenn | feature recognition? not gonna happen | 00:06 |
| fenn | that's like trying to do OCR in 3d | 00:07 |
| fenn | there's this program "lego digital designer" that does just about everything i intended to do | 00:07 |
| fenn | so after seeing that i haven't been terribly inspired to work on lego stuff | 00:08 |
| ybit | oh right, kanzure, i'm done. i fail. going back to edit | 00:08 |
| ybit | you can do what you need to, i'm working on a backup of the file | 00:09 |
| fenn | you're still compiling pythonocc? | 00:10 |
| ybit | working on it | 00:11 |
| ybit | but i should be sleeping any min now since i have to be somewhat awake tomorrow while welding | 00:11 |
| fenn | yep | 00:11 |
| ybit | this computer generated code is confusing | 00:12 |
| fenn | you aren't supposed to look at it | 00:12 |
| ybit | that's what i gathered, but i figure there's something small that can fix this current issue | 00:12 |
| ybit | but i'm not seeing it | 00:13 |
| ybit | s/something small/some small error in the syntax | 00:13 |
| ybit | guess it's time for sleep | 00:13 |
| fenn | probably a gcc version difference | 00:14 |
| fenn | char*& doesn't look right tho | 00:15 |
| genehacker | it would really be nice to have a nice estimate of interference force in the lego | 00:17 |
| genehacker | so you could figure out if the arbitrary struct you built out of lego would actually stand up | 00:17 |
| genehacker | that gets hard because you have stuff bending | 00:17 |
| fenn | 1lbf/stud | 00:19 |
| jonathan__ | ahhh whyyyy lego? | 00:19 |
| fenn | because it's easy | 00:19 |
| jonathan__ | lego is the most proprietary interlocking system on the planet | 00:20 |
| fenn | there's actually a system there to study | 00:20 |
| fenn | what do you propose instead? | 00:20 |
| jonathan__ | i guess you are using someone else's lego library right | 00:20 |
| fenn | also there are LOTS of freely licensed cad models already available for lego | 00:20 |
| fenn | unfortunately the models don't include connection information | 00:21 |
| fenn | which i find really odd | 00:22 |
| jonathan__ | surely some ME somewhere has built their own system? | 00:22 |
| genehacker | lego is simple | 00:22 |
| ncravens | later goons! | 00:22 |
| jonathan__ | lego is proprietary | 00:22 |
| jonathan__ | "lets get rid of money" != lego | 00:22 |
| genehacker | uhh | 00:22 |
| genehacker | it's a good starting point | 00:23 |
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| genehacker | were teaching skdb to play with block first before we move to V8 engines | 00:23 |
| jonathan__ | bsd unix could have copied AT&T code because "it was a good starting point" however they didnt because it was proprietary and knew it would hurt in the long run. so they rewrote all the libraries | 00:23 |
| fenn | jonathan__: provide constructive criticism or shut up | 00:24 |
| fenn | solutions | 00:24 |
| jonathan__ | that is constructive example | 00:24 |
| fenn | alternatives | 00:24 |
| genehacker | anyway it'd be nice to figure out the manufacturability of various lego assemblies | 00:24 |
| jonathan__ | so you're saying you havent found anything? | 00:24 |
| fenn | i'd love to add makerbeam or whatever, but it doesn't exist yet | 00:24 |
| genehacker | for example square brick to square brick connecting by one stud to anti stud isn't going to be very manufacturable | 00:25 |
| genehacker | it's best to pick up blocks from the center push them down from the center | 00:26 |
| fenn | min-a-max is a neat idea but i'm nowhere near as familiar with it as lego (and it's probably just as encumbered from a legal standpoint, even if nobody is going to enforce it) | 00:26 |
| fenn | it helps to actually understand how a system works before trying to write a bunch of code about it | 00:26 |
| genehacker | so if you try to push them together from the easy to grab center to one of the corner studs it's not going to go on well | 00:27 |
| genehacker | because you got a couple that wants to rotate the brick | 00:27 |
| jonathan__ | so utex.org has a 2 day microalgal culture workshop tomorrow & fri. only $600 per person... | 00:30 |
| jonathan__ | any way to bypass that? | 00:30 |
| jonathan__ | must be some killer workshop | 00:31 |
| jonathan__ | (sarcasm) | 00:32 |
| fenn | genehacker: i know what you mean and it's not a big deal.. we know what interfaces are connected and can calculate the centroid (where to push) | 00:32 |
| fenn | the harder problem is figuring out what order to put things together | 00:33 |
| fenn | i bet there are even structures you can come up with that are impossible to assemble | 00:33 |
| fenn | there are a lot of building systems that are hard to see even though we use them all the time | 00:37 |
| fenn | like 2x4 and drywall screws, or plexiglass+solvent+hot bender | 00:37 |
| jonathan__ | I had this http://www.erectorusa.com/ | 00:37 |
| fenn | but a lot of them involve modifying the geometry in some way, which turns out to be harder to do than I thought | 00:37 |
| fenn | how is that any less proprietary than lego? | 00:38 |
| ybit | btw | 00:38 |
| ybit | heath@togetic:~$ gcc --version | 00:38 |
| ybit | gcc (Debian 4.3.2-1.1) 4.3.2 | 00:38 |
| ybit | what do you have fenn & kanzure? | 00:38 |
| fenn | 4.3.3 but i doubt it matters | 00:38 |
| ybit | couldn't hurt | 00:39 |
| jonathan__ | I am sure it is also proprietary. however its basically metal rails with bevelled edges, normal bolts/nuts, and different predrilled plastic parts | 00:40 |
| fenn | i could do GIK instead, would that make you happy? | 00:40 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIK | 00:40 |
| fenn | only problem is i don't have any way to make GIK | 00:40 |
| jonathan__ | I wonder if the plastic guys like TAP plastics have ever designed their own, whether they marketed or not | 00:41 |
| fenn | or pvc pipe.. | 00:42 |
| jonathan__ | as long as the s/w layer is swappable, then it doesnt matter of course, ditch it later for something better | 00:42 |
| ybit | yeah it doesn't matter, bedtime or there will be death in the shop tomorrow | 00:42 |
| ybit | or even worse, little ybit is welded off | 00:43 |
| genehacker | I don't think it's possible to figure out all the above automatically | 00:43 |
| fenn | i'm not terribly enthusiastic about building toys because "real stuff" isn't made with them | 00:44 |
| genehacker | because one would have to do FEM on the interlocking bricks to figure out if such couples were capable of dislodging the brcik | 00:44 |
| fenn | i have to get geometry modification figured out eventually | 00:44 |
| genehacker | deformation? | 00:45 |
| fenn | yes, and also machining, welding, casting, etc | 00:45 |
| genehacker | min a max might be easier | 00:46 |
| genehacker | it's just a cylinder | 00:46 |
| fenn | min-a-max can't do everything | 00:46 |
| fenn | you can't make a jet engine from it | 00:46 |
| genehacker | yeah you can't here's the thing | 00:46 |
| genehacker | FEM takes a long time | 00:46 |
| fenn | oh pfff | 00:46 |
| fenn | they were doing FEM on computers in 1980 | 00:46 |
| genehacker | FEM needs to be analyzed by a human much of the time | 00:46 |
| fenn | you young'uns just have to use super detailed meshes for some stupid reason | 00:47 |
| genehacker | good point | 00:47 |
| fenn | anyway i don't plan on doing FEM any time soon | 00:47 |
| genehacker | but here's the thing, doing FEM for assembling each brick isn't such a good idea | 00:48 |
| fenn | i agree | 00:48 |
| fenn | all of these construction toys are either lego clones or erector set clones | 00:55 |
| jonathan__ | what do the professional ME's use? or do they. | 00:59 |
| jonathan__ | the ME guys I knew in industry never rapid prototyped with physical models. I guess kind of like most programmers dont write pseudocode. | 01:01 |
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| genehacker | so I got a challenge for you | 01:44 |
| genehacker | automatically design a powered lego cart from a graph | 01:45 |
| genehacker | a cart that goes in straight line along a flat surface | 01:45 |
| genehacker | http://journals.cambridge.org/production/action/cjoGetFulltext?fulltextid=183050 | 01:49 |
| genehacker | lego grammar | 01:50 |
| genehacker | well I think you're going in the right path | 02:09 |
| genehacker | reading some automatic design papers | 02:09 |
| genehacker | I didn't know that programs could make their own grammars | 02:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | google "self-modifying code" and "string execution" | 02:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | "dynamic includes" | 02:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | or if you don't care about breaking namespace and variable scopes of the originating program, simply write a new script to a file,a nd callthe interpreter/compiler to execute it | 02:40 |
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| kanzure | jonathan__: like most labs, it can be bypassed by just hanging out in the lab | 05:07 |
| kanzure | ybit: i did some magic to /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/MoniTool_wrap.cpp near line 7298 and 11076 | 05:25 |
| kanzure | oh why did i bother | 05:26 |
| kanzure | swig is just going to regenerate it | 05:26 |
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| CIA-32 | skdb: kanzure * r 3d784b2 /doc/ (architecture proposals/action.py): Outlined architecture discussed yesterday. | 10:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: i didn't bring in the external hard drive today. if you end up wanting to come in, could you grab that for me? | 10:36 |
| kanzure | ybit: you ran out of disk space | 10:40 |
| kanzure | i guess i can move to /mnt/g but i don't know what's on there | 10:48 |
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| CIA-32 | skdb: kanzure * r 5b42efe / (5 files in 3 dirs): Various changes to the bearing package and import_tools/surf.py | 11:46 |
| CIA-32 | skdb: kanzure * r a26b23e /import_tools/del_repo/yaml_fixer.py: old uncommitted code that fixes up yaml imported from DEL .repo XML | 11:46 |
| kanzure | call me crazy: http://onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/08/18/ikvm.html | 12:00 |
| kanzure | "The third and final component of IKVM is the ikvmstub compiler, which can be used to generate stubs in Java that wrap .NET classes. With this, you can write Java code that calls into .NET libraries. Note however, that the compiled Java code has to be run on the IKVM JVM. This feature, when coupled with the ikvmc command, makes Java a first-class language to develop applications targeting the .NET CLR " | 12:00 |
| kanzure | wonder if jpype works with ikvmjvm | 12:01 |
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| xp_prg | I am trying to figure out the brst plant cells to use in a bio printing inkjet printer, any ideas? | 12:15 |
| xp_prg | what plant cells readily fuse together? | 12:15 |
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| xp_prg | and could be printed? | 12:15 |
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| kanzure | are there any ocr programs that correctly identify "fi"? | 12:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | spell cheackers? | 12:59 |
| kanzure | well in ocr'd documents usually "fi" is replaced with " " instead of any particular indication that there was a problem at that location | 13:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | tunally, goool ODH ! | 13:00 |
| kanzure | your speaking privleges are hereby revoked | 13:00 |
| kanzure | :p | 13:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | i know the frustration, i scanned in books too, wore out two scanenrs | 13:01 |
| kanzure | fenn: well it turns out i'm not the only one who plants his trees upside down http://adl.serveftp.org/papers/instructions/Generating%20effective%20natural%20language%20instructions%20based%20on%20agent%20expertise.pdf.fig518.png | 13:01 |
| katsmeow-afk | i finally resorted to plain ole spell check and text replacement | 13:01 |
| kanzure | imho recaptcha would be so much cooler if we could apply it to our own ocr collections | 13:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | RE-captcha? | 13:02 |
| kanzure | i.e., seed your local recaptcha server with stuff from your collection that might not have been scanned properly (an ocr algorithm could conceivably flag certain items for human review) | 13:02 |
| kanzure | yes | 13:02 |
| kanzure | if they're going to make you type in random text, might as well make it useful. they claim that you're helping to ocr some google library or something, but i don't believe it | 13:03 |
| kanzure | (haven't seen any evidence of any recaptcha answer going anywhere useful, ever) | 13:03 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 13:03 | |
| katsmeow-afk | they send it out to 1000 sites, and then average the results | 13:03 |
| kanzure | but then put it where? | 13:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | 992 people said it was "the" , etc | 13:04 |
| kanzure | yeah but it seems to be just a black hole | 13:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | praps 1000 other peple hadn't responded yet, so it isn't used where you were looking for it yet | 13:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | i dunno | 13:05 |
| kanzure | hm i have a screen session within a screen session | 13:05 |
| bkero | Yes | 13:05 |
| bkero | You use ctrl+a+a+<command> to control the nested screen | 13:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | i still say ImageMajick could clean up capcha so ocr can read it | 13:06 |
| kanzure | is this robust? i mean, can i do nested nests of nests of hives of nested nests? | 13:06 |
| kanzure | imagemagick | 13:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | that's what you said | 13:06 |
| bkero | kanzure: yes | 13:06 |
| bkero | ctrl+a+a+a++a+a+a+a+a+n works | 13:06 |
| kanzure | bkero: ctrl+a+a just switches to another active window in my root screen | 13:06 |
| kanzure | ah nevermind | 13:07 |
| bkero | :P | 13:07 |
| kanzure | you have to unpress ctrl | 13:07 |
| bkero | Yes | 13:07 |
| kanzure | do beeps and requests for attention funnel correctly? | 13:11 |
| bkero | Probably | 13:13 |
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| kanzure | hm tinytree (on pypi) implements a Tree class where they let a Tree be a node, but that doesn't let a tree become a graph (if it has to) because nodes are never going to have edges pointing away | 13:48 |
| kanzure | guess it doesn't matter, python-graph is fine | 13:48 |
| kanzure | fenn: suppose you had two people making your pie. even if you make the crust yourself, and you slice the apples yourself, it's effectively two different branches and it might as well have been two separate agents. | 14:25 |
| kanzure | as far as Pie.build knows, it might as well have been two (different) agents | 14:26 |
| kanzure | so there can be an 'asynchronous tree' which means a single agent can doodle around for a while on his own, | 14:26 |
| kanzure | and a 'synchronous tree' which means that two agents must be "synchronized" in order to carry on | 14:27 |
| kanzure | this is where the state merging occurs | 14:27 |
| kanzure | it's not just a merging of states in the skdb code Pie.build code but also a merging of states as far as the agents are concerned with each other | 14:27 |
| kanzure | i.e., "the pie hand off" as it were | 14:27 |
| kanzure | er, 'sliced apples hand off' | 14:28 |
| kanzure | this solves the state merging problem. | 14:33 |
| kanzure | blargh having actions as edges is weird, how can you have multiple inputs to an action if an action is an edge? that means that you're pulling the "campbell hyperarc" nonsense on me | 14:42 |
| fenn | fine do it the other way | 14:48 |
| kanzure | should Part.build modify the part instance? maybe a "private build tree" that doesn't have to be recomputed? | 14:53 |
| fenn | why would you want that? | 14:54 |
| fenn | is this just memozing? | 14:55 |
| fenn | memoizing* | 14:55 |
| kanzure | actually it's so that it's more clear to the author of the build method | 14:56 |
| kanzure | instead of passing a "build tree" (wtf) to an agent's action method, you just say agent.insert(object=apples, into=crust) | 14:56 |
| kanzure | and "apples" and "crust" have their build trees associated | 14:56 |
| kanzure | so "insert" can check the state if it wants to | 14:57 |
| kanzure | (a state is built) | 14:57 |
| kanzure | er nevermind. | 14:57 |
| kanzure | let me write code for now. | 14:57 |
| fenn | heh latest issue of hplusmagazine has the phrase 'neuroengineering fabratories' | 14:58 |
| * kanzure looks around suspiciously | 14:58 | |
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| kanzure | a part isn't just a Part, it's also the entire history of building that went into it | 14:59 |
| fenn | i see | 15:00 |
| kanzure | heh so a part is both an assembly (which is a graph) as well as a build-tree of sorts (which is a tree) | 15:01 |
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| CIA-32 | skdb: kanzure * r 1d4cbcd /doc/proposals/action.py: simplified the action.py example for instruction generation | 15:45 |
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| kanzure | for some reason i wanted to try making a 'marker' that indicates whether or not __init__ has been called for a class, but this screws up in situations with inheritance from multiple inheritance using that "init has been called marker" scheme | 15:57 |
| kanzure | hey jonathan__, i'm just now leaving for the bus, so we'll have to catch each other later | 15:57 |
| jonathan__ | yeah | 15:57 |
| jonathan__ | i just found out my project is hosed | 15:57 |
| jonathan__ | vendor won't give out the docs to control the rest of the robot | 15:58 |
| jonathan__ | just as nice as microsoft | 15:59 |
| fenn | you're an EE, just reverse engineer it :P | 16:02 |
| fenn | you have a logic analyzer? | 16:03 |
| fenn | or DSO | 16:03 |
| jonathan__ | it's a very large serial protocol. | 16:08 |
| jonathan__ | so the size of the problem is very large as well. | 16:09 |
| drazak | jonathan__: see if nenolod is interested, he reverse engineered a driver for the audigy crystal card thinger in 1 week | 16:24 |
| drazak | jonathan__: also if you're an ee do you have any extra nice multiumeters that you're looking to get rid of? | 16:25 |
| jonathan__ | ha, what is "extra nice" | 16:25 |
| drazak | uhmmm more than 10k count | 16:31 |
| jonathan__ | I'd guess no | 16:32 |
| drazak | you | 16:33 |
| drazak | you're no metrologist then? :) | 16:33 |
| ybit | kanzure: feel free to move to /mnt/g | 16:34 |
| jonathan__ | one of my EE profs long ago mentioned a story about a really smart roommate he had while an undergrad. He said he guy used to use his tongue to test the beta of transistors across a 9v battery and used them to build a CRT TV with tuner. | 16:35 |
| drazak | rofl | 16:35 |
| drazak | well, I need to match resistors to .01% tolerance | 16:35 |
| drazak | :D | 16:35 |
| ybit | eric raymond emailed me back | 16:35 |
| drazak | I might just build a wheatstone bridge | 16:36 |
| ybit | the guy with solar flight | 16:36 |
| ybit | damn this bug in xmonad | 16:37 |
| ybit | eric's response: | 16:38 |
| ybit | I can not release to you any of the technical data you asked for until we have a solid business plan together. | 16:38 |
| ybit | The batteries are good for over three years, and thousands of cycles. | 16:38 |
| ybit | The batteries I fly with are not safe, but there are safe ones with lower energy density. | 16:38 |
| ybit | The Stemme needs to be built light from the beginning to become a viable electric aircraft. | 16:38 |
| ybit | expected but still lame | 16:38 |
| fenn | since it's a glider it wouldn't really need that many batteries | 16:40 |
| fenn | just enough to get up in the air | 16:40 |
| fenn | i think i calculated it once for an ultralight, would be about $15k in lithium ion batteries (if li-ion works that is) | 16:41 |
| ybit | we have an ultralight at work | 16:43 |
| ybit | speaking of, i got to use a plasma cutter today | 16:43 |
| ybit | life doesn't get any better than that :P | 16:43 |
| ybit | i was all grins when blasting through sheets of metal | 16:43 |
| ybit | anyone shared a similar exp when using a plasma cutter, surely i'm not the only only who thought it was fun | 16:47 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk, bkero, fenn, eh? | 16:47 |
| ybit | heath@togetic:/home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/samples/Tools/CADViewer$ python CADViewer.py | 16:48 |
| ybit | Traceback (most recent call last): | 16:48 |
| ybit | File "CADViewer.py", line 24, in <module> | 16:48 |
| ybit | import OCC | 16:48 |
| ybit | ImportError: No module named OCC | 16:48 |
| ybit | funny thing is locate shows no occ.py | 16:48 |
| ybit | i've worked around this error once before i do believe | 16:48 |
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| fenn | yeah yeah good for you kid | 16:51 |
| fenn | OCC is a module; in python terms that means a folder named OCC with a file __init__.py | 16:51 |
| ybit | i almost feel like an idiot, but i can blame this on sleep deprivation, right? right. | 16:52 |
| jonathan__ | big ruckus outside MBB now | 16:53 |
| xp_prg | mbb? | 16:54 |
| jonathan__ | 8 big fire trucks, 2 EMS | 16:54 |
| jonathan__ | 3 or 4 cop trucks | 16:54 |
| jonathan__ | they wheeled some guy out of the physics lab on a stretcher | 16:54 |
| jonathan__ | ha, it's all over twitter... figures | 16:55 |
| kanzure | wait he was wheeled out because of twitter? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | ybit: did you fix the storage issue or continue setup.py's build -NO_GEOM in /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/ ? | 17:06 |
| ybit | i didn't know where you were, i was trying to figure out where you got to | 17:12 |
| ybit | i'll mv /var/www to /mnt/g, that should free up 18gb or so | 17:13 |
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| drazak | ybit: you asked for technical data? | 17:30 |
| drazak | you do realize that's one of the biggest faux pas ever | 17:31 |
| ybit | the build sure got further along this time | 18:09 |
| ybit | build/temp.linux-i686-2.5/home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/wrapper/SWIG/linux_darwin/XCAFPrs_wrap.o: file not recognized: File truncated | 18:09 |
| ybit | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status | 18:09 |
| ybit | error: command 'g++' failed with exit status 1 | 18:09 |
| jonathan__ | "there was a chem explosion in RLM and a grad student got hurt. i saw him wheeled out with his head covered in bandages. " | 18:10 |
| jonathan__ | that's the rumor anyway | 18:11 |
| genehacker | so that's what the hazmat trucks were for? | 18:13 |
| genehacker | RLM is the physics building isn't it? | 18:13 |
| kanzure | that's barbaric | 18:13 |
| genehacker | not the chem building? | 18:14 |
| genehacker | that's odd | 18:14 |
| genehacker | I don't think there are any chem labs in RLM | 18:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | woo, i found Florence | 18:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | wasn't even looking, either | 18:16 |
| genehacker | RLM doesn't have any fume hoods | 18:19 |
| kanzure | how do you know | 18:21 |
| drazak | hell we have fume hoods here | 18:23 |
| ybit | 18:16 < katsmeow-afk> woo, i found Florence | 18:52 |
| ybit | hehe, you were in town today? | 18:52 |
| ybit | you could have stopped by the junkyard on 72, i just now got back from there | 18:53 |
| ybit | the, er, "red's" | 18:53 |
| genehacker | because there aren't any filter columns on top of RLM | 18:54 |
| genehacker | or at least none that I know of | 18:54 |
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| genehacker | you know those things on top of CPE? | 18:56 |
| genehacker | they're filter columns | 18:56 |
| genehacker | I think | 18:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit : nono, it's labeled on the weather map | 19:08 |
| genehacker | http://www.plantops.umich.edu/maintenance/shops/Millwright/images/med_cool_twr.jpg | 19:12 |
| genehacker | these are what fumehood exhaust systems generally look like | 19:12 |
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| genehacker | http://www.kmf.gu.se/bildcenter/kamera2/ | 20:54 |
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| ybit | damn i hate professors who seem to feel they continually have to prove that they are knowledgeable | 22:13 |
| ybit | s/professors/people in general | 22:13 |
| ybit | 'let me finish my sentence a-hole' is one of my thoughts when dealing with these people | 22:14 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods quietly so you may continue | 22:15 | |
| ybit | no i'm good :) | 22:15 |
| * ybit has been stressing on how to make a living after gradiating | 22:15 | |
| ybit | graduating* | 22:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | lol | 22:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | sounded there for a sec like you had been edumacated in Alaabamy | 22:16 |
| ybit | ideally i want a plot of land near the beach with enough room for a runway, crops, hydroponic garden, and maybe a small house | 22:16 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: hehe | 22:16 |
| ybit | just the qwerty keyboard being quirky | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | beach? | 22:17 |
| ybit | who doesn't want to live on the beach | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, you got the river there | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | so i didn't know which beach you meant | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | i did a lil calculating, figured the cost of an acre of ocean front = the cost of an acre of boat | 22:18 |
| ybit | that's one large boat | 22:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | and at least with the boat, you can travel | 22:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | and the taxes are lower | 22:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | wll, i didn't mean you should by an acre of boat any more than you should get an acre on the beach | 22:19 |
| ybit | oh and ideally, i have a boat, plane, underwater plane/personal submarine type thingie, and i have enough space to shoot things into outer space | 22:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | you have a few more ambitions than i do | 22:20 |
| ybit | really, why not? | 22:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | what? | 22:20 |
| ybit | s/?/. | 22:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | 5876iy84y23231#$%*$%^*&#% | 22:20 |
| ybit | if you are living, why not do these things | 22:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | oh, you could spread yourself too thin | 22:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | and, things cost money | 22:21 |
| ybit | so i'm told, grr | 22:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's not my fault? | 22:22 |
| ybit | how can you spread yourself too thin, you concenrate on one experiment, get it done, move on to the next project, after awhile you just accumulate a bunch of things, you aren't necessarily working on several projects at once, maybe 2-3 at most | 22:23 |
| katsmeow-afk | because some things turn into several projects | 22:24 |
| genehacker | you could shoot stuff into space on a boat | 22:24 |
| genehacker | especially with a ram accelerator | 22:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | forinstance, the drive syatem for your boat, your plane, and your sub, need a lathe, so you need to build one of those too | 22:24 |
| genehacker | I think you only need a 15-40 meter ram accelerator to get something into space | 22:25 |
| katsmeow-afk | the ram accelaerator, and the testing for a pack tho withstand 60Gs , money and time and more stuff to make | 22:25 |
| genehacker | yeah | 22:25 |
| ybit | holy shit, build worked o.O kanzure, did you do something? | 22:25 |
| genehacker | I think more than 60 gs | 22:25 |
| genehacker | like a lot more | 22:25 |
| katsmeow-afk | 60G for 40 meters, is too low? | 22:26 |
| genehacker | yeah | 22:26 |
| katsmeow-afk | 32ft/sec^ * 60 * 40 meters,, how fast is that? | 22:26 |
| katsmeow-afk | 32ft/sec^2 | 22:26 |
| ybit | pythonocc install was successful o.O | 22:30 |
| ybit | this calls for some type of celebration | 22:30 |
| ybit | togetic:/home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC# python /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/samples/Tools/InteractiveViewer/InteractiveViewer.py | 22:31 |
| ybit | Traceback (most recent call last): | 22:31 |
| ybit | File "/home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/samples/Tools/InteractiveViewer/InteractiveViewer.py", line 54, in <module> | 22:32 |
| ybit | import wx.aui | 22:32 |
| ybit | aww, so close | 22:32 |
| ybit | ImportError: No module named aui | 22:32 |
| ybit | grr, python-wxgtk2.8 is installed, and... export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC:/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx | 22:35 |
| * ybit is waiting on fenn to mumble something of value ;) | 22:38 | |
| ybit | oh, so why the beach? at the end of the day, it just seems a lot more relaxing to be looking over the ocean then to be staring at a backyard fence | 22:42 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk ^ | 22:42 |
| ybit | there's something psychological about limits where an ocean view represents unlimited potential whereas a fence represents borders and limits which you aren't allowed to step over? | 22:44 |
| ybit | anyone else thought of this? if no, at least i know there's a problem | 22:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | i agree | 22:49 |
| katsmeow-afk | which is why i got 12 acres on a mountain that i can see down the valley as far as the smog allows | 22:49 |
| ybit | yeah, nice views i suppose are what i'm going for | 22:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | but i can't afford ocean property, hence the boat | 22:50 |
| kanzure | hello ybit | 22:51 |
| ybit | hiya kanzure, have you been working on python-occ this afternoon? | 22:51 |
| ybit | the build and install didn't complain | 22:51 |
| kanzure | i'm looking for togetic | 22:51 |
| ybit | import wx.aui | 22:52 |
| kanzure | ah found it | 22:52 |
| ybit | that's what's failing now which is odd since the path to the file is stated in the pythonpath | 22:52 |
| ybit | at least it's a problem which is much more simple | 22:53 |
| kanzure | can you show me your $PYTHONPATH | 22:53 |
| ybit | togetic:/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx# echo $PYTHONPATH | 22:53 |
| ybit | :/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC://usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/aui/aui.h:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC:/usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/aui/aui.h:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC:/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx/ | 22:53 |
| ybit | //usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/aui/aui.h ..EEK | 22:53 |
| kanzure | huh you have 2.4 libraries and 2.6 libraries all at once? | 22:53 |
| kanzure | fenn: say: "the limit as n approaches infinity of the series as i approaches n of (x+2)" | 22:54 |
| kanzure | sorry not x, but i | 22:54 |
| kanzure | s/series/sum/ | 22:54 |
| kanzure | fenn: "the limit as n approaches infinity of the series as i approaches n of (x+2)" | 22:55 |
| kanzure | er | 22:55 |
| kanzure | sum of (x+2) from x=0 xto x=12 | 22:56 |
| kanzure | ybit: i once had this same error but i don't remember how i fixed it. where are you running InteractiveViewer.py? | 22:56 |
| ybit | /home/kanzure/local/pythonOCC/src/samples/Tools/InteractiveViewer/InteractiveViewer.py | 22:58 |
| kanzure | ok | 22:58 |
| ybit | they pythonpath sure is redundant | 22:58 |
| ybit | maybe it had to do with sourceing env_DRAW.sh, /me peers into the contents of that file | 22:59 |
| kanzure | iirc the problem was that wx2.6 was still installed and active | 22:59 |
| kanzure | and even then, your python distribution will still think 2.6 is the main/default installed version or something weird like that | 23:00 |
| ybit | pythonpath isn't specified in env_draw.sh | 23:00 |
| kanzure | it doesn't have anything to do with pythonpath | 23:00 |
| ybit | strange, okay | 23:00 |
| kanzure | what are you removing at the moment? | 23:01 |
| ybit | yay, removing 2.6 fixed that prob | 23:02 |
| ybit | File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/OCC/TopoDS.py", line 27, in <module> | 23:02 |
| ybit | import _TopoDS | 23:02 |
| ybit | ImportError: libTKDCAF.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or director | 23:02 |
| ybit | almost there.. | 23:02 |
| kanzure | i think that's in my ~ | 23:03 |
| kanzure | hm maybe not | 23:03 |
| kanzure | oh | 23:04 |
| kanzure | well fenn showed you how to do this | 23:04 |
| kanzure | the problem is that /usr/lib/libTKDCAF-6.2.so is not properly linked | 23:04 |
| ybit | /usr/lib/libTKDCAF-6.2.so | 23:04 |
| fenn | who what huh | 23:04 |
| fenn | you should have 6.3 installed | 23:04 |
| ybit | ln -s /usr/lib/libTKDCAF-6.2.so /home/kanzure/somewhere | 23:04 |
| kanzure | no | 23:04 |
| kanzure | ybit: wrong.. check the pythonocc install notes | 23:04 |
| kanzure | fenn had this huge section of symbolic links | 23:04 |
| fenn | pythonOCC-0.3 won't work with opencascade 6.2 | 23:05 |
| * kanzure just made the link for ybit | 23:05 | |
| fenn | the symbolic link stuff was because debian didn't package it the same way as opennovation (and ubuntu(?)) | 23:05 |
| ybit | File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/OCC/TopoDS.py", line 27, in <module> | 23:05 |
| ybit | import _TopoDS | 23:05 |
| ybit | ImportError: libTKDraw.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or director | 23:05 |
| ybit | what was the code for the link kanzure? | 23:05 |
| fenn | did making a link fix the TKDCAF error? | 23:06 |
| ybit | it seems so | 23:06 |
| kanzure | yes | 23:06 |
| fenn | (btw i never needed DCAF or Draw or wok) | 23:06 |
| ybit | /usr/lib/opencas/libTKDraw.so | 23:06 |
| ybit | 23:05 < ybit> what was the code for the link kanzure? | 23:07 |
| ybit | s/code/command | 23:07 |
| kanzure | sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libTKDCAF-6.2.so /usr/lib/libTKDCAF.so | 23:07 |
| fenn | you shouldn't need all the opencascade pacakges because in the configure "checking to see if you have libraries installed" it'll just say "... no" and then not build the python module for that library | 23:07 |
| kanzure | stuff in /usr/lib/opencas/ had to be there for the compile/swig stuff to work apparently | 23:07 |
| kanzure | but on my local installation, i don't have /usr/lib/opencas/ | 23:07 |
| fenn | btw ybit can you do 'from OCC.gp import *' from a python prompt? | 23:07 |
| kanzure | no module named _gp | 23:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | all this talk of ocean views, i had to go make a dead-fish sammich | 23:08 |
| ybit | hehe | 23:09 |
| fenn | hmm. "plot of land near the beach with a runway" makes me think of alaska | 23:11 |
| ybit | i just did ln -s /usr/lib/opencas/* /usr/lib/ | 23:11 |
| ybit | that seemed to take care of "can't find this file" complaints | 23:11 |
| ybit | File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/OCC/TopoDS.py", line 27, in <module> | 23:11 |
| ybit | import _TopoDS | 23:11 |
| ybit | ImportError: /usr/lib/libTKXSDRAW.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10DrawTrSurf3GetERPKc | 23:11 |
| ybit | odd | 23:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, i doubt you'll find affordable 2500ft strip , and neighbors who'd allow a airport, in the lower 48 | 23:11 |
| ybit | >>> from OCC.gp import * | 23:12 |
| ybit | Traceback (most recent call last): | 23:12 |
| ybit | File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> | 23:12 |
| ybit | File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/OCC/gp.py", line 27, in <module> | 23:12 |
| ybit | import _gp | 23:12 |
| ybit | ImportError: /usr/lib/libTKXSDRAW.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10DrawTrSurf3GetERPKc | 23:12 |
| ybit | huh, same error | 23:12 |
| * ybit has recently come to the realization that if you want something done, you do it yourself. | 23:14 | |
| katsmeow-afk | sucks, doesn't it? | 23:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, sometimes it sucks | 23:14 |
| * ybit wonders why it took so long to learn | 23:15 | |
| katsmeow-afk | i waited 2 weeks for two epople who said they'd sell me monitors in other irc channels, and gave up and did this buy : Desktop Computer w/Monitor & Peripherals ; 10 Used Black PS/2 Keyboards ; Gateway 15” LCD Computer Monitor ; DELL E153FPb 15” LCD Computer Monitor ; Dell E152FPb 15" Color LCD Monitor ; Compaq Presario SR1222NX (P4 2.9 GHz) ; Dell Dimension 4550 (P4 2.53 GHz) Tower PC = $148.59 | 23:15 |
| ybit | wow, not bad | 23:15 |
| ybit | if you're not off the grid, that electrical bill has got to be monstrous | 23:16 |
| ybit | well, maybe not with just 2 pcs and 3 monitors | 23:16 |
| ybit | at some point, space is a consideration as well with comps | 23:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | i am looking at 2sec booting with ubuntu, and peripheral avr to do lil stuff | 23:17 |
| ybit | you have exp with avr-gcc? | 23:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, i just hunk the shelf for the puters, with a kvm switch and gbit lan switch | 23:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | hung | 23:18 |
| ybit | you programming types, how do you fix a binary issue o.O | 23:19 |
| ybit | only thing i can think of is to reinstall the file and i know that isn't very practical nor does it mean it will work afterward | 23:20 |
| fenn | looo loo loo loo... now i'm going to be thinking about calculus all night | 23:20 |
| fenn | "binary issue" = what exactly? | 23:22 |
| ybit | write(2, "/usr/lib/libTKXSDRAW.so: undefine"..., 67/usr/lib/libTKXSDRAW.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10DrawTrSurf3GetERPKc) = 67 | 23:22 |
| ybit | write(2, "/usr/lib/libTKXSDRAW.so: undefine"..., 67/usr/lib/libTKXSDRAW.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10DrawTrSurf3GetERPKc) = 67 | 23:22 |
| ybit | ImportError: /usr/lib/libTKXSDRAW.so: undefined symbol: _ZN10DrawTrSurf3GetERPKc | 23:22 |
| fenn | probably that function doesn't exist in 6.2 | 23:22 |
| fenn | my recommendation is to install 6.3 | 23:23 |
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| fenn | or else just not use whatever is using TKXSDRAW | 23:24 |
| ybit | iircPackage: opencascade-draw | 23:24 |
| ybit | Source: opencascade | 23:24 |
| ybit | Version: 6.3.0.dfsg.1-2opv1 | 23:24 |
| fenn | huh | 23:25 |
| ybit | OCCViewer.py is calling TopoDS.py which is having the issue of importing libTKXSDRAW.so | 23:26 |
| * ybit wonders why it's using py2.5 and not 2.6 | 23:26 | |
| fenn | wonder why gp is calling *DRAW | 23:27 |
| fenn | i would uninstall opencascade-draw and recompile pythonOCC | 23:28 |
| ybit | http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/about.php | 23:28 |
| fenn | also make sure you don't have any extra copies of pythonOCC lying around in your pythonpath | 23:29 |
| ybit | then you get this error: ImportError: No module named Display.OCCViewer | 23:30 |
| ybit | so you need opencascade-draw | 23:30 |
| fenn | no -draw has nothing to do with Display | 23:31 |
| fenn | i bet it just didnt put Display in the right place | 23:31 |
| ybit | it =? | 23:31 |
| fenn | see pythonOCC/src/addons/Display/ | 23:31 |
| fenn | it = setup.py install, i guess | 23:32 |
| fenn | DRAW is a "test harness" | 23:32 |
| fenn | (no i dont know what that means) | 23:32 |
| ybit | ImportError: libTKTopTest.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 23:33 |
| ybit | /usr/lib/opencas/libTKTopTest.so | 23:33 |
| fenn | opencas? | 23:33 |
| ybit | ln -s /usr/lib/opencas/* /usr/lib | 23:34 |
| fenn | why is it opencas? | 23:34 |
| ybit | dunno | 23:34 |
| fenn | wtf | 23:34 |
| ybit | the error repeats | 23:34 |
| ybit | + most of the files already existed anyway from last time | 23:34 |
| fenn | "ln -s /usr/lib/opencas/* /usr/lib" does what exactly? | 23:34 |
| ybit | i did this same thing earlier (see above) | 23:34 |
| ybit | i'm *guessing* that it creates links of all those files and puts them in /usr/lib | 23:35 |
| fenn | first of all, you don't need to do that | 23:35 |
| fenn | secondly, i don't think it does that | 23:35 |
| * ybit couldn't find a recursive option in man, so i figured that's the way | 23:36 | |
| ybit | togetic:/usr/lib# file libTKTopTest.so | 23:36 |
| ybit | libTKTopTest.so: broken symbolic link to `/usr/lib/opencas/libTKTopTest.so' | 23:36 |
| ybit | that's the way to create batch symlinks, because it did tell me 'this file already exists, this_file2 already exists, etc. | 23:37 |
| fenn | ok the ln -s seems to work | 23:37 |
| fenn | you can check to see if it's pointing the right place with ls -l | 23:38 |
| fenn | but still ldconfig should look in your /usr/lib/* directories anyway | 23:38 |
| ybit | togetic:/usr/lib# ls -l libTKTopTest.so | 23:38 |
| ybit | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 32 Sep 24 23:04 libTKTopTest.so -> /usr/lib/opencas/libTKTopTest.so | 23:38 |
| ybit | maybe it's broken because i removed opencascade-draw | 23:38 |
| fenn | yeah probably | 23:39 |
| fenn | i don't have any libTKTopTest | 23:39 |
| ybit | it is | 23:39 |
| ybit | http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=libTKTopTest.so&mode=path&suite=unstable&arch=any | 23:39 |
| * ybit reinstalls opencascade-draw | 23:39 | |
| fenn | why? | 23:39 |
| * ybit re-uninstalls opencascade-draw :P | 23:40 | |
| fenn | it shouldn't be looking for opencascade-draw | 23:40 |
| fenn | because you should have compiled without opencascade-draw present | 23:40 |
| * ybit was reminded of cryptographic errors after the install | 23:40 | |
| fenn | btw how long does recompiling take on that comp? | 23:41 |
| ybit | not long | 23:41 |
| * ybit revisits compile time | 23:41 | |
| fenn | quantitative estimate please | 23:41 |
| * ybit is in need of /usr/lib/opencas/libTKTopTest.so | 23:42 | |
| * ybit recompiles | 23:42 | |
| ybit | ~20secs | 23:42 |
| ybit | real0m1.427s | 23:43 |
| fenn | this is pretty cool http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/meteor.php | 23:43 |
| -!- mquin [i=mike@freenode/staff/mquin] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 23:43 | |
| ybit | output from build and install: http://pastebin.com/m138da76 | 23:44 |
| -!- mquin [i=mike@freenode/staff/mquin] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:44 | |
| ybit | (including time) | 23:44 |
| ybit | who mentioned orbital speed? | 23:46 |
| ybit | maybe that was #highaltitudes | 23:46 |
| fenn | probably me | 23:46 |
| ybit | * #highaltitude | 23:47 |
| fenn | it always irks me that people think they did something by getting to 100 km altitude | 23:47 |
| fenn | big woop | 23:47 |
| ybit | kind of what i was saying in that one-liner email to luf-team | 23:47 |
| fenn | "My one complaint about these is that they are just rockets with no way of sending data back."? | 23:48 |
| ybit | yeah, they get there and no data is being transmitted back, you just shot something into outerspace, so now what? | 23:49 |
| fenn | no, you're missing the point | 23:49 |
| ybit | go n | 23:49 |
| ybit | on | 23:49 |
| fenn | there's nothing special about 100km altitude | 23:49 |
| fenn | there's nothing special about mach 15 | 23:50 |
| fenn | but at mach 25 or so something special happens | 23:50 |
| fenn | you're going fast enough that you never fall down | 23:50 |
| fenn | it just so happens that you have to be at 100km altitude to not burn up at mach 25 | 23:50 |
| fenn | orbital velocity is the magical thing that makes microgravity and space development possible | 23:51 |
| fenn | anything less is just a glorified vomit comet | 23:51 |
| fenn | spaceship one is a scam | 23:54 |
| fenn | spaceX falcon is not | 23:55 |
| genehacker | redstone was a scam | 23:56 |
| fenn | nobody ever said redstone was going to space | 23:57 |
| fenn | "the Eisenhower administration wanted the first US satellite to be launched by a civilian-developed rocket instead of a missile derivative." | 23:58 |
| fenn | so i guess it could have if they tried | 23:59 |
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