| --- Day changed Mon Sep 28 2009 | ||
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| fenn | i'd much rather have a standardized certification test that can be transferred around between various fabratories so you don't have to get re-certified at every location | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | instead of a 'diploma' | 00:10 |
| fenn | this is re: fab academy | 00:10 |
| fenn | also a computerized format to represent the skills people have could be useful | 00:11 |
| fenn | 'who knows how to fix this thing and is currently here?' | 00:11 |
| Noahj | Hmm, that's a good idea, I don't think fab academy has a final exam yet, but when it does it should be portable beyond the academy itself | 00:12 |
| fenn | i don't mean a final exam, i'd much rather have individual skill-specific exams | 00:12 |
| fenn | because 'final exam' is so wishy washy anyway and would change from place to place | 00:13 |
| fenn | that's why modern education is useless, you don't know what skills the person actually has | 00:13 |
| Noahj | A fab academy diploma's supposed to represent all the certificates | 00:16 |
| Noahj | And eventually there will be fab academies at every fab lab | 00:16 |
| fenn | but most people don't need or want all of the skills | 00:16 |
| fenn | you'd have to complete everything before getting a diploma | 00:16 |
| genehacker | anyway there are few fablabs | 00:17 |
| Noahj | No, you can just get a certificate in a specific skill | 00:17 |
| fenn | i just want to know what they're capable of doing, not whether they're a rounded "completely literate person" | 00:17 |
| genehacker | I think they're cool and all but are they successful in their goals? | 00:17 |
| fenn | what's the point of a diploma? | 00:18 |
| Noahj | A diploma is just all the certificates | 00:18 |
| fenn | but what is "all"? | 00:18 |
| Noahj | There's a list of certificates on the fab academy website | 00:18 |
| fenn | if you add a new certificat next year do you take away peoples' diplomas until they do that one? | 00:18 |
| Noahj | Hmm | 00:19 |
| genehacker | blah blah blah it's just a piece of paper | 00:19 |
| Noahj | That sounds like an impractical way to go about it | 00:19 |
| fenn | "all the courses some place offered in 2009" is a research project in itself | 00:19 |
| fenn | how will you disseminate the information about what a diploma means? | 00:20 |
| fenn | if i have a diploma, how do you know i'm qualified to use XYZ machine no questions asked | 00:20 |
| Noahj | Well, I don't expect a lot to change year-to-year | 00:20 |
| fenn | see what i'm getting at? i want to just wave my piece of paper and get to work | 00:21 |
| fenn | but the guy responsible for me not getting killed or damaging stuff has to know that i know how to use XYZ machine | 00:21 |
| fenn | so he has to look up exactly what this piece of paper means | 00:21 |
| genehacker | a lot does change though | 00:22 |
| genehacker | new machines come out, interfaces change, heck maybe new file formats get introduced | 00:22 |
| Noahj | I think we could fix this by printing the list of certificates the diploma covers on the diploma itself | 00:22 |
| fenn | ok but i still think the whole 'diploma' is just silly | 00:23 |
| Noahj | Yeah, re-taking a class every year to certify yourself in the latest kind of laser printer seems a bit like an overkill | 00:23 |
| fenn | also the point i was originally getting at was that you shouldn't have to take the class to get certified | 00:23 |
| Noahj | I think the diploma aspect is to cater to Boeing and people who want resumes, it's not inherently any better than a collection of certificates | 00:24 |
| fenn | if you can demonstrate you know what you're doing with some standardized test, you shouldn't have to take the class that supposedly prepares you for that test | 00:24 |
| genehacker | I think that is a valid point | 00:24 |
| genehacker | instead of having certification why not just read the manual | 00:24 |
| Noahj | I think the fab academy will be a bit more hands-on than that, but I really can't say | 00:24 |
| fenn | there's a lot of stuff that's not in "the manual" | 00:25 |
| fenn | also a lot of procedural knowledge (habit forming) | 00:25 |
| Noahj | A fab academy certification is kind of like a road-test for fab lab tools, as far as I can tell | 00:25 |
| fenn | if you show up in sandals to do welding you fail | 00:25 |
| genehacker | or shorts to a machine shop | 00:26 |
| genehacker | anyway let's forget the fab academy | 00:27 |
| fenn | pants just keep you from getting chips in your shoes :) | 00:27 |
| fenn | i assumed it was why noah was here | 00:27 |
| genehacker | anyway | 00:28 |
| genehacker | so I'm wondering about something | 00:28 |
| genehacker | there are these sponges that can make glass from seawater | 00:29 |
| fenn | diatoms? | 00:29 |
| genehacker | no sponges | 00:29 |
| genehacker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus%27_Flower_Basket | 00:29 |
| genehacker | now if you can make glass fibers you can can make glass fiber composites | 00:30 |
| fenn | interesting | 00:32 |
| genehacker | now then figure out how to grow glass fibers in a natural polyester matrix and BAM! you're on the way to growing huge living spaceships/monsters | 00:33 |
| fenn | i guess | 00:34 |
| fenn | metalloproteins are more interesting | 00:34 |
| genehacker | yeah | 00:34 |
| genehacker | they are | 00:34 |
| genehacker | quite simple too | 00:34 |
| genehacker | I wonder why there aren't any organisms with metal in them | 00:35 |
| genehacker | IE structural metal components | 00:35 |
| fenn | i remember some ant has copper? titanium? protein composite mandibles | 00:35 |
| genehacker | whoa | 00:36 |
| genehacker | I'd expect copper | 00:36 |
| fenn | now i can't find the article | 00:37 |
| genehacker | I think I found it | 00:37 |
| genehacker | holy shit | 00:37 |
| genehacker | you're right | 00:37 |
| genehacker | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WCB-45N4PCG-P&_user=108429&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1026318970&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000059713&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=108429&md5=b1802b666435c30a6fca71236a557c68 | 00:37 |
| fenn | manganese and zinc | 00:39 |
| genehacker | I wonder if it's because there isn't that much available metal in the biosphere | 00:40 |
| genehacker | but there is now | 00:40 |
| fenn | zinc metal isn't bioavailable | 00:42 |
| fenn | besides termites don't eat metal | 00:43 |
| genehacker | they eat wood | 00:43 |
| genehacker | which has tiny amounts of zinc | 00:43 |
| fenn | it also has all sorts of other metals | 00:44 |
| genehacker | but not in large amounts | 00:44 |
| genehacker | hmm... | 00:45 |
| genehacker | there are metal reducing bacteria | 00:45 |
| fenn | apparently pregnant women sometimes get cravings for red dirt and eat it (you can get it in southern restaurants!) | 00:46 |
| genehacker | and reducing metal cations is how you do electroplating | 00:46 |
| fenn | for the iron | 00:46 |
| genehacker | there is also a disease know as pika | 00:46 |
| genehacker | now that's weird | 00:46 |
| genehacker | pica | 00:47 |
| fenn | LOL "My friend has Asperger Syndrome, how can I help?" | 00:48 |
| genehacker | I wonder how that evolved | 00:48 |
| genehacker | and how it happens | 00:48 |
| fenn | um, where do you think all that iron comes from? | 00:49 |
| fenn | you have like 1 gram of iron in your body | 00:49 |
| genehacker | no I wonder how it happens in the brain | 00:54 |
| genehacker | time to read up on neural networks | 00:54 |
| fenn | i think it's because we know what iron tastes like | 00:54 |
| fenn | hm i think google brought back 'dont fuck up my search query with word substitutions' magic plus sign | 00:57 |
| fenn | can you find the sliver you're actually allowed to use? http://www.thingmagic.com/images/frequency_big.jpg | 01:00 |
| fenn | this has the whole thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_allocation | 01:06 |
| AchiestDragon | katsmeow-afk: / drazak : a couple of pointers on audio amps , use bifet opamps something like a opa228pa there is a noticable diference even if spec wise there seems to be no real diference | 01:22 |
| AchiestDragon | fets / mosfets like tubes are current mode devices where transistors are voltage mode ,,, you may see quite a few audiophile bods saying how good tube amps are copmared to transistor/ic types | 01:24 |
| AchiestDragon | theres verry few true mosfet designs arround ,, if you do take the time to get all semiconductors on the audio path to be mosfets /fet devices then you would get one of the few semiconductor amps that equels the tube amps on tone, audio qualaty and give you a nice flat responce in the process | 01:27 |
| AchiestDragon | although a few of the top names in the audio industry (top qualaty audio wise that is ) did produce mosfet designs seems that they stoped the only reason is the audio mags just started to proclame that all the semiconductor amps dont beat tubes | 01:29 |
| AchiestDragon | so even if mosfets are better there not tubes so the audiophile's think there no good because there not tubes ,, genaraly they would not want to show that amp to there mates on account of the fact its not got nice glowing bottles in it eating up 4* the electric nomater how good the amps actualy are | 01:32 |
| AchiestDragon | like the same sort of people that would beleve microsocks adviertizing and think that linux is some pirate version of win95 | 01:34 |
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| fenn | my favorite is the 'plinths' little blocks they use to keep the speaker cord off the ground, to prevent ground loops :) | 01:37 |
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| fenn | "it should only contact the ground at one point" | 01:37 |
| fenn | i can't figure out who buys any of the crap on crunchwear.com | 01:41 |
| fenn | "ipod enabled" and led illuminated clothes | 01:41 |
| AchiestDragon | http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/10V-PSU.pdf < alternate way to get the +- v supply for opamps when you have only a single supply rail | 01:43 |
| fenn | lots of handbags with lcd screens playing various disney movies | 01:43 |
| AchiestDragon | yea speaker cables there is a diference on a 100w rms amp into 8ohm you are looking at needing a psu that will give about 8A at +- 55v when playing music its the peek responce that matters thin speakre cable would tend to act like resistive current limiting so not giving the desiered peek responce | 01:47 |
| fenn | why 8A? | 01:48 |
| AchiestDragon | 4A per chan and over rated enough that when you do get a music peek that causes the caps in the psu to almost discharge that theres enough left in the psu to recharege the caps while still ensuring the psu voltage does not dip | 01:51 |
| AchiestDragon | but for a simple design that works with normal qualaty (ie its often used on commertial kit use a lm356n single chip 1w audio amp , ideal for use as a headphone amp and single supply | 01:59 |
| AchiestDragon | but its not studio quality | 02:02 |
| fenn | i am wondering what this has to do with "3d printing" http://www.yankodesign.com/2008/10/03/all-the-cool-kids-wear-air-jordan-prosthetics/ | 02:36 |
| AchiestDragon | because they use 3d printing to ensure that they get the fit right | 02:40 |
| AchiestDragon | if you lose a leg then the stump left would have a unique shape to the end ,, that prosthetic has to fit to that shape | 02:42 |
| fenn | obviously there are easier ways of doing that | 02:42 |
| fenn | like polymorph for example | 02:42 |
| AchiestDragon | not practical | 02:42 |
| fenn | apparently making an exact fit is not the right way to do it anyway | 02:42 |
| fenn | the "luke arm" uses this spider shaped gripper that wraps all the way around the stump | 02:43 |
| AchiestDragon | ie you get the end of the stump scanned and you can just reorder the prosthetic without having to get it rescanned | 02:43 |
| AchiestDragon | and yea its not an exact fit and you cant take a mould because there may be indented surfaces in the stump that would need to be removed in order to get it to slide on to it | 02:45 |
| fenn | i just dont think that's what they did | 02:45 |
| AchiestDragon | so they do a 3d scan then modifiy the surface to get the correct shape then plot it to that shape | 02:46 |
| AchiestDragon | they do the same when making false teeth ,,, they take a mold , the mold gets scanned they modify the scanned image to get it to fit correctly then cnc out the plate to that shape | 02:47 |
| AchiestDragon | know a guy that makes false teeth ,, hes got a cnc machine that that is accurate to a single micron | 02:49 |
| fenn | overkill for a tooth | 02:51 |
| AchiestDragon | theres also a guy not far away that makes custom hand grips for sporting rifles ,, again he scans the hand and mods the data to get the grip usable ,, but fits perfect then even if the user is missing a finger | 02:51 |
| fenn | how exactly does that work? i mean "scans the hand and mods the data" | 02:51 |
| AchiestDragon | you take a mould but if you just used that then you would need to cut away the outer surface ie you just want the inner surfaces of the hand that actualy touch the surfce so you have to edit the scanned 3d model to just get the mating surfaces | 02:54 |
| AchiestDragon | then you may need to mod the mating surfaces so that theres no odd bits sticking out | 02:55 |
| AchiestDragon | its easy to do in cad | 02:55 |
| AchiestDragon | but a total pita if you are trying to cut up the original mould to get it the right shape | 02:55 |
| AchiestDragon | if you make a mistake ediditing it then you got to recall the guy so they can take another mould | 02:56 |
| AchiestDragon | rather than beeing able to just reload the original scan data and start again | 02:57 |
| AchiestDragon | overkill maybe , but its both an effective way to do it and cost effective not to metntion no having a warehouse full of old moulds so that you got a referance incase of a reorder | 02:58 |
| fenn | right | 02:59 |
| AchiestDragon | phisicaly storeing 1000 or so plastic legs is going to cost quite a bit of ground rent and heating overheads on a yearly basis , not to mention the staff to manage the catalogeing of it | 03:00 |
| AchiestDragon | not to mention distance problems ,,, it would be a pain for a person in say LA having to go to NY to get a mould taken , when there may be a place in LA that can scan the surface and send them the 3d moddel file | 03:02 |
| AchiestDragon | as to overkill on the accuracy ,,, well better to have the item made to a couple of microns tolarance than gt sued $1,000,000 because by someone who says it dose not fit right they must of made it wrong | 03:07 |
| AchiestDragon | and do remeber false teeth are not a one pice mould ,, the teeth part are all individualy cut to shape and mounted on the individualy formed plate | 03:11 |
| AchiestDragon | so a bit more advanced these days than a guy sat there with a dremmill individualy hand sculpturing each one from resin then casting a metal copy of that | 03:14 |
| AchiestDragon | what they do for crowns these days is to take a mould of the tooth before they start ,, big hole in it included ,, they send that mould off it gets scanned a guy then edits out the hole on the scan so as to rebiuild the surface ,, computer match it so that the sape fits normal jaw movments and will not bind with other teeth and cnc cut the crown from that | 03:18 |
| AchiestDragon | the dentist in the mean time has got the tooth ground down and filled ins such a way as to take that crown ready for the 2 to 3 weeks it usualy takes to arrive | 03:20 |
| AchiestDragon | in engineering you will find nothing that comes close to the requiremnets that have to use for medical kit , all over rated and over spec for what you would think is needed ,, and its needed for one of the above mentioned reasons | 03:23 |
| AchiestDragon | car manufacture for example well other than making parts that actualy work and fit correctly theres no manatary tolarances like the stearing wheel dia can be 10" or 20" | 03:25 |
| AchiestDragon | the next major one is equipment for food use ,, like as for cars but materal types , oil grades and types , have to be good enough , then theres scientific equipment that tends to be high tolarance , then medical kit where its high tolarance and specified material types | 03:28 |
| AchiestDragon | theres also space grade kit like medical but a diferent set of materials and requirements | 03:29 |
| AchiestDragon | genaral machining for consumer equipment is ususaly only acurate to about 1mil (imperial) | 03:33 |
| AchiestDragon | even if the machines are capable of higher that they have to be anyway like 0.2 mil would be common | 03:34 |
| AchiestDragon | you could start to feel that amount of error if it was a step in the surface of that | 03:35 |
| AchiestDragon | if you can't ask a blind man to | 03:36 |
| AchiestDragon | with the prosthetics another aspect that you would probablay overlook is the fact that in contact with it you have living skin ,, that sweats and can stick to it ,, any error would make that effect uneaven that can lead to irritation | 03:40 |
| AchiestDragon | irritation causes swelling that means it nolonger fits , situation gets worse | 03:40 |
| AchiestDragon | unlike metal on metal where that sort of error would naturlay ware down the surfaces so its not as mutch of a problem | 03:43 |
| fenn | i'm still trying to figure this thing out http://www.yankodesign.com/2008/10/31/embrace-your-femininity/ | 03:47 |
| fenn | after several hours i have figured out that stuff on yanko design is not necessarily developed into a real product or even plausible | 03:48 |
| fenn | but some of it is.. and they never say what's real or not! so frustrating | 03:49 |
| AchiestDragon | well many companies do put prof of concept systems there like they have been showing 3d laser projection tvs at shows for some time but still to see 1 of them actualy on sale | 03:50 |
| AchiestDragon | they need to in order to get feedback and hopefully orders so they can assess if they can get funding for production | 03:51 |
| AchiestDragon | for example if you came up with a machine that could open any packet you put in it properly ,, then it may be a realy good idea and a realy good system ,, ok so it may cost a couple of milion per machine , so is it going to be worth making them | 03:53 |
| AchiestDragon | well bet you got a realy limited customer base ,, i cant think of one place that would need to open enough random types of packets ie from a pill bottle to a fraight container that could justify having one | 03:56 |
| AchiestDragon | maybe with the execption of customs | 03:56 |
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| AchiestDragon | at this point the design enginers think ho good another product idea one to repackage them after ,, and the accountant heads to the bank and files banckrupsy | 03:57 |
| AchiestDragon | rambling on i am ,, will stop | 04:00 |
| fenn | ok i hope this one isn't a real product http://www.yankodesign.com/2008/09/09/hitch-a-free-ride/ | 04:08 |
| fenn | hmm two snow crash references in one day.. guess i must read it | 04:11 |
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| drazak | AchiestDragon: heh, I know exactly how good tube amps, I have a golden tube SE100SE and a fischer x100, both very good tube amps, bipolar mosfets however are very hard to use, they're cranky and need to have the design be made around them | 10:41 |
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| drazak | AchiestDragon: they also aren't suitable for battery powered amps, too much current draw | 10:45 |
| AchiestDragon | i have built one some years back ,, i used some rather large power mosfets ,, was rated at 400W rms per chan on 4 chans ,,(about 1.5kw peek music power as the usual " fake blurb spec" that they try to parm you off with ) | 10:46 |
| AchiestDragon | its worth doing on that | 10:47 |
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| katsmeow-afk | i have had bipolar and tubes, i prefer a limited set of bipolars | 10:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | had an Eico 35w/chan tube, and a lil mono for center channel, and then had a Sansui AU7700 and a Marantz ,, i prefered the Marantz | 10:52 |
| drazak | marantz makes some nice stuff | 10:55 |
| drazak | I like tubes though | 10:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | the Eico was a serious room heater, the Sansui had a fine enough preamp section (it's power amp oscillated driving reactive loads), and the Marantz couldn't be beat for power and clarity (tho the 135v that the powerco delivered did beat it into submission -- poof) | 10:55 |
| katsmeow-afk | +/- 80v mains can deliver some kinda brute force | 10:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | i spent 2 hrs trying to unload Norton from a computer, finally resorting to manually deleting all references to Norton from the registry | 10:58 |
| drazak | that's what you have to do, sadly | 10:58 |
| drazak | I remember when norton didn't suck | 10:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | me too, like prior to windoze98 | 10:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | i still have the Sansui and the Marantz, i stopped all electronics work at the start of the Dog Era, so no controlled psu to plug either into, so i didn't bother replacing their power outputs for the 3nd time each | 11:01 |
| drazak | hehe | 11:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | got a cheap JVC SuperA i been using | 11:02 |
| drazak | ew | 11:02 |
| drazak | you need to listen to some mcintosh tubes though | 11:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, no low end, bad components thruout, and no speaker damping | 11:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | i knew someone who had a mac | 11:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | he spend $1000's on each of those things | 11:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | i think the only way i'd go back to tubes is if the speakers could be driven directly by the tubes, with no transformer | 11:04 |
| drazak | yeah | 11:04 |
| drazak | I just like tubes | 11:04 |
| drazak | :) | 11:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | i could build one again,, i have 14 6AS7G sitting right here, and some 6080's 6SL7's and 2000 assorted other tubes | 11:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | not that i am into tubes ;-) | 11:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | the sweetest sounding amp i ever heard was a olde vac tube amp with 6L6 outputs (!!!!) and electromagnet speakers | 11:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | it put the oooooo in smooooth | 11:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | ya know, you prolly could drive a speaker *enclosure* directly with vac tubes, if you series a mess of 16 or 32 ohm voice coils | 11:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | and enough tubes | 11:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | capacitiavely coupled them to a class A , with a choke for the plate's dc | 11:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | no transformer | 11:10 |
| drazak | hehe | 11:10 |
| drazak | the fischer takes 6l6I think | 11:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | 6L6 was known to be a dirty amp tho,, or am i thinking of the 6V6 ? | 11:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | iirc, one of the 2 was very nonlinear | 11:11 |
| drazak | oops, EL34 | 11:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | had to use careful design abd lots local feedback | 11:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | which is ok with me, i never liked gobs of global feedback | 11:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | i'd rather have [clean stage] - [clean stage] - [clean stage] | 11:13 |
| katsmeow-afk | saves on phase margins | 11:13 |
| drazak | tube amp with all smd components but the tubes | 11:18 |
| katsmeow-afk | heh | 11:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | smd 300v caps | 11:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | smd 5w resistors, lol | 11:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | i'd hate to see a pcb that had a 5U4 socket mounted to it for long! | 11:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | unless it was fan cooled, of course | 11:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | seen too many of those with glowy plates | 11:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | have you seen the steam punk watches with vac tube displays, and solid state other guts? | 11:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | the chips ran on battery power, and you press a button gto turn on hv to the tubes to see the time | 11:22 |
| drazak | nice | 11:27 |
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| kanzure | hello splicer | 11:39 |
| kanzure | joshua keena just emailed me 20 SLDPRT files | 11:50 |
| kanzure | for the page turning device | 11:50 |
| splicer | hi kanzure | 11:50 |
| kanzure | 84 attachments in an email? this guy needs to learn about archives | 11:51 |
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| genehacker | whoa | 11:55 |
| genehacker | post that on hey bryan | 11:57 |
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| kanzure | genehacker: uploading now. | 11:58 |
| kanzure | hm. is there a way to make an ink that chemically bonds to a gas? | 11:59 |
| kanzure | it would be much more effective to just put a book in a chamber, and ramp up the pressure with some gas that would make a magnetic particle bond to the ink on the pages | 11:59 |
| kanzure | and then just do magnetic resonance to scan in the book | 12:00 |
| kanzure | actually i guess it could be liquid | 12:00 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure there's magnetic ink somewhere out there.. | 12:00 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/ezreaderfiles.zip | 12:04 |
| kanzure | (6.9 MB) | 12:04 |
| genehacker | yup | 12:05 |
| genehacker | there is | 12:05 |
| genehacker | magnetic paint at least | 12:05 |
| genehacker | you could do some weird x-ray stuff | 12:05 |
| genehacker | if you had a very very very fast computer | 12:05 |
| genehacker | most inks already contain iron | 12:06 |
| kanzure | is that so | 12:06 |
| genehacker | but I'm not so sure about NMRing books to scan them in | 12:06 |
| kanzure | it's faster than flipping pages | 12:07 |
| genehacker | yeah but how do you image a bunch of really thin iron containing layers stacked on top of each other? | 12:07 |
| kanzure | i don't know the layer thickness of MRI | 12:08 |
| kanzure | but i imagine that it would just be a matter of putting the book on a stage and adjusting it | 12:08 |
| genehacker | it's on the order of millimeters at best | 12:09 |
| genehacker | hmmm... | 12:09 |
| kanzure | how thick is a page? 500 microns? | 12:09 |
| genehacker | paper is 0.1 millimeters the best MRI machines are about that | 12:09 |
| genehacker | so it might be doable | 12:10 |
| genehacker | what about turning the raw data into to ebook though, that could take some time | 12:10 |
| kanzure | i guess the real trick is doing OCR in less time than it takes to flip a page | 12:11 |
| kanzure | otherwise you're boned | 12:11 |
| genehacker | yeah | 12:11 |
| genehacker | what if the book has pictures? | 12:12 |
| genehacker | black and white pictures | 12:12 |
| kanzure | there's this algorithm known as image segmentation | 12:12 |
| kanzure | where you can separate different portions of a page based off of white space between the regions | 12:12 |
| kanzure | see here: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/scripts/segment_image | 12:12 |
| genehacker | anyway mri has 0.1 millimeter resolution at the very very best | 12:13 |
| genehacker | letters and pictures are higher res | 12:13 |
| kanzure | no that wasn't the problem | 12:13 |
| kanzure | the problem was the thickness of pages | 12:13 |
| kanzure | so to account for that you can put the book on a stage and just have it slowly move up and down until it comes into focus in the MRI machine | 12:13 |
| kanzure | but hopefully that wouldn't be needed | 12:13 |
| genehacker | what has someone tried this before | 12:14 |
| kanzure | probably? | 12:15 |
| genehacker | hmmm... maybe we could ask the MRI expert in the EE building who's doing hi-res MRI if this is possible | 12:15 |
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| AchiestDragon | katsmeow-afk: drazak: have a th331 tube here would make a nice 3kw rms audio amp , but the transformer would be rather large not to mention the other 2 transformers needed for the mains like the 4.8kv at 1A for the annode and 12v at 60A for the heater | 15:14 |
| drazak | heh | 15:15 |
| AchiestDragon | they would be about 50 to 60 kg each | 15:16 |
| drazak | haha | 15:16 |
| drazak | nice | 15:16 |
| drazak | I have a 80kg tandberg | 15:17 |
| AchiestDragon | one thing i learned some time ago with amature radio equipment is , its posible to home build equipment with the same sort of specs and performance as high end broadcast kit for the price of top qualaty amature kit | 15:20 |
| drazak | yeah, it's crazy | 15:20 |
| AchiestDragon | in audio terms thats like having say a studio mixing desk as your preamp | 15:21 |
| drazak | the most expensive things are like, stepped attenuators and stuff | 15:21 |
| drazak | at 130$ a piece | 15:21 |
| drazak | for two channels | 15:21 |
| AchiestDragon | but the commertal kit is made for cost and featres rather than a qualaty that realy matters | 15:21 |
| drazak | that's one of the things found in hifi stuff that's a bitceh to get yourslef | 15:21 |
| AchiestDragon | actualy today ,, the most expencive bits are the ADC's and DAC's used to convert the signal to digital then digitaly mix and process the data using "hardware" in a fpga | 15:23 |
| drazak | well, yes | 15:23 |
| AchiestDragon | if you got the ADC sample rate at double the freqancy then you can directly decode most radio signals formats in the fpga using fft and spectrum algorithms implimented in hardware in the fpga | 15:26 |
| drazak | heh | 15:27 |
| drazak | I know nothing about DACS and ADC's | 15:27 |
| AchiestDragon | well the none encripted signals that is | 15:27 |
| drazak | other than my rio karma has one of the highend ones that they always talk about on audio forums | 15:27 |
| AchiestDragon | well a adc converts a analog voltage to a digital value that reflects the percentage of that voltage in relation to a referance voltage | 15:28 |
| drazak | I know what they do :) | 15:28 |
| drazak | I just know none of the details | 15:29 |
| AchiestDragon | :) save me rambling | 15:29 |
| AchiestDragon | well with a referance of 1v and 8 bits then 1v on the input gives a binary 255 out , 0.5v on the input gives a binary 128 out | 15:30 |
| AchiestDragon | the dac same in reverse | 15:30 |
| AchiestDragon | to mix a signal its input a plus input b and ouput result to output dac | 15:31 |
| AchiestDragon | to reduce the volume by half you divide by 2 | 15:31 |
| AchiestDragon | no analog pots to get dirty contacts and be noisy when moved that way | 15:32 |
| AchiestDragon | you dont use pots linear or rotary optical encoders | 15:33 |
| AchiestDragon | with motor overides if you are wanting to make it like a proper midi compatable mixer | 15:35 |
| AchiestDragon | but a pot costs like 20cents ,, a optical encoder assembly like that and your not going to get 20cents back from $200 per control ,, but there nice | 15:36 |
| drazak | a nice pot is like 26 bucks :D | 15:37 |
| AchiestDragon | ADC for a 160khz sample rate 48bit single one is £26 gbp ,, a 1600 gate fpga module £160 the DAC about the same thats about £300 for the digital control dont know what the current exhange rate is to $ | 15:40 |
| AchiestDragon | could eather control it by a pc or as theres space configure softcore micro inside the fpga and have it read a digital front pannel or use some cheap adcs to read pot values | 15:42 |
| AchiestDragon | reading pot values via a adc is fine you slow sample them so you lose any noise it may give | 15:43 |
| AchiestDragon | plus at 160k samples per second per chan and 48bits the signal in and out of the digital section is better qualaty than anything you could manage in analog so the rest is down to what input preamp you may need and whatever final amp and speakers you use | 15:45 |
| AchiestDragon | cd quality is only 48khz | 15:46 |
| AchiestDragon | studio commertial mixers that use fpgas these days as there not produced in enough numbers to justify making an asic , also using fpgas you can flash them an update | 15:48 |
| AchiestDragon | or reporgam bits of them on the fly | 15:49 |
| AchiestDragon | since i have not managed to fund a pcb i need to make ,, been attempting now since jan , im building a cnc machine so i can mill the thing out | 15:51 |
| AchiestDragon | like its a pair of £200 full pannels | 15:52 |
| AchiestDragon | only had funds to cover £100 so far can get a cnc working for that | 15:53 |
| AchiestDragon | well have most of the bits anyway | 15:53 |
| AchiestDragon | got the z axis leadscews mounted on it today ,, just the x and y leadscrews to fit then i should be able to test the drives , and start to allign it all | 15:55 |
| AchiestDragon | should have it working by the weekend | 15:56 |
| AchiestDragon | theres the outer frame and case to make for it also but got the bits for that also | 15:57 |
| AchiestDragon | http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/dscf2320.jpg | 15:58 |
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| AchiestDragon | after some discusion the machine i was going to build is to be redesigned from scratch as its been decided it should have to be able to machine brass and stainless steel | 16:07 |
| kanzure | which machine? | 16:07 |
| AchiestDragon | and needs to be 5 axis | 16:07 |
| kanzure | have you looked at hextatic yet? | 16:08 |
| AchiestDragon | the one i uploaded to you | 16:08 |
| kanzure | http://fennetic.com/gingery_machines/index.php?hextatic | 16:08 |
| AchiestDragon | ho that design | 16:08 |
| AchiestDragon | yea seen that but unless you spend an awfull lot of cash your not going to be able to build one with the strenth needed to do more than plastics | 16:09 |
| AchiestDragon | ie the load on a 20mm dia solid stainless steel bar the bar would flex at 200mm along more than +- 1mm | 16:10 |
| AchiestDragon | thats doing aluminium ,,, would need to be a cast block if on stainless steel and some tungsten alloys | 16:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: hey didn't Part used to inherit from Shape? | 16:11 |
| kanzure | ah there's Part.shape | 16:13 |
| AchiestDragon | well for me yet another project where my design is fine , but the end result is totaly diferent to the plans i drew up | 16:16 |
| AchiestDragon | will see if i can find a pic of the old machine its going to replace | 16:17 |
| ybit | fenn, kanzure: do you have CASROOT and CSF_* definied in your .bashrc? | 16:20 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:20 |
| kanzure | export CASROOT=~/local/opencascade/OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros/ | 16:20 |
| kanzure | export CSF_GraphicShr=/usr/lib/libTKOpenGl.so | 16:20 |
| AchiestDragon | http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/dscf2315.jpg | 16:22 |
| AchiestDragon | the old machine is to heavy and big to get inside ( first floor flat here) so it sits in a little shead outside ,, where its rusting away and its only realy usable during summer here | 16:23 |
| AchiestDragon | it also takes a 500W router so is a bit too noisy to use indoors | 16:24 |
| AchiestDragon | the aluminium one will take a dremel so will be quiet enough and light enough to use here on the desk | 16:25 |
| AchiestDragon | can then concentrate on making a 5 axis machine that will do metal that can go where the old one is , but will be next summers project that | 16:26 |
| AchiestDragon | so the machining time i have avalable is going to be spent making the custom bits for that | 16:26 |
| AchiestDragon | so if i get this machine working for the end of the month then can get the pcbs made intime to build up the radio project that i have already acumulated more than 50% of the bits for | 16:29 |
| AchiestDragon | like £800 so far | 16:29 |
| AchiestDragon | but still under half what my estimate was | 16:30 |
| AchiestDragon | :) | 16:30 |
| AchiestDragon | but still £3000 less than the rhoads and swarts profesional equivelent | 16:32 |
| AchiestDragon | well i dont work you can say im retiered so got to find something to do to pass the time | 16:33 |
| kanzure | you don't need an excuse | 16:34 |
| AchiestDragon | to me its fun ,, done electronc design for a number of years profesionaly , digital , analog and rf and audio plus i did engineering at collage many years back also | 16:36 |
| AchiestDragon | bigest problem you get doing home construction are the tools you genaraly have at hand | 16:38 |
| AchiestDragon | now to do a proper job you find you need lathes and a milling machine ,, that there biggest problem is space ,, a sutable mini workshop is about the size of a 2 car garrage | 16:39 |
| AchiestDragon | space i dont have , neather do many others | 16:40 |
| AchiestDragon | you cant realy fit a 500kg 1/2 ton machine on the desk | 16:40 |
| AchiestDragon | the router design you can | 16:41 |
| AchiestDragon | the old machine was designed to machine aluminium plate ,, it would do that but would need a coolant system fitting | 16:42 |
| AchiestDragon | with a coolant system fitted then because of all the crap that you get you would only be able to use it for metal | 16:42 |
| AchiestDragon | otherwise you block up and contaminate the coolant oil | 16:43 |
| AchiestDragon | anyway ,, the one i am building atm will manage pcbs plastics and wood , should be able to do drilling on aluminium sheet | 16:46 |
| AchiestDragon | its made from 3" by 2" 1/8"thick aluminium angle ,,, theres a outer frame assembly and covering to make yet , that will brace the machine tight so it does not flex | 16:49 |
| AchiestDragon | but its not far off strong enough as it is | 16:49 |
| AchiestDragon | just a shame i am having to build it as i go allong as that means theres no plans for it | 16:50 |
| kanzure | there's enough of us in here to help with the plans | 16:51 |
| kanzure | but the problem is that we don't have expensive CAD software, only things that support standard formats | 16:51 |
| kanzure | (IGES and STEP are my favorites) | 16:51 |
| AchiestDragon | i will take photos and give approx dimentions | 16:51 |
| AchiestDragon | as to machining it out im just clamping parts together in the right place then drilling out mounting holes for them , bolt it in remove clamp and move to next bit | 16:53 |
| AchiestDragon | just the way that works well ,, takes like 2 to 3 days to cad up a part only to have to go out and hand make it , could do eather but no point doing both | 16:54 |
| kanzure | how did you determine the flex? | 16:55 |
| kanzure | for the hextatic design? | 16:55 |
| AchiestDragon | flex ,, any part of the design that may flex under pressure and the direction of that flex | 16:56 |
| AchiestDragon | the cutting presure can be quite high | 16:57 |
| AchiestDragon | also vibration , allong a lenth is going to resanate so will genearate a oscilating flex | 16:58 |
| AchiestDragon | example of how it can affect a machine is think of a washing machine on spin dry , with an imballanced load in it ,, like it tries to bounce arround allong the floor | 16:59 |
| AchiestDragon | well the frame structure of that machine would be resinating out of square because of that | 17:00 |
| AchiestDragon | like a slightly bent cube | 17:01 |
| AchiestDragon | the hextatic design well most of that is tube secton frame ,, although there could be a bit of twist in the frame thats not going to be the problem | 17:04 |
| AchiestDragon | the problem with that desing is getting all the angles right on the joins of the frame | 17:05 |
| AchiestDragon | as the acuracy is limited by the acuracy you get the 3 actuator mountings in relation to each other and the bed on all axis's .. | 17:07 |
| AchiestDragon | 6 actuators not 3 | 17:08 |
| fenn | AchiestDragon: an octahedron is not a cube | 17:08 |
| fenn | i'm sorry you're just wrong.. build a model out of straws or something | 17:08 |
| AchiestDragon | straws and putty ,, yea i know ,, but get a aluminium block and manualy drill the holes for fitting the poles into it and i bet you cant manage more than 0.5degree acuracy | 17:10 |
| fenn | i'm not totally certain on how to mount the joint brackets to the frame.. i'm sure there's some way to do it without bending | 17:10 |
| fenn | i don't need 0.5 degree accuracy | 17:10 |
| fenn | the whole structure will flex to the right angle | 17:10 |
| fenn | anyway we are just talking past each other | 17:11 |
| AchiestDragon | the distance between the mounting points for the actuators and the head , is verable ok get one actuator mounted 1mill out of allign and that actuator path is out by the same amount so that affects the position and angle of the cutting head by the same amount | 17:13 |
| AchiestDragon | its the lenth determins the relative angle also so if its out on eather it will affect the machines acuracy | 17:14 |
| AchiestDragon | you cant weld it manualy eather as it would warp the frame , you could cnc weld it if you made a special jig to do it ,,, the way they do make them | 17:15 |
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| AchiestDragon | the other way is to make a frame then post machine it out the mounting surfaces so they are all in line | 17:16 |
| AchiestDragon | but your not going to reproduce the joins needed to make that frame without eather cnc machined joins for the poles or cnc welded , or post machining it | 17:19 |
| AchiestDragon | well its not an easy shape to try to weld , hand driling is out , manual adjuster plates for the mounting points may work but those actuators are £250 each | 17:21 |
| kanzure | this looks like what smari was going for: | 17:22 |
| kanzure | http://code.gustavonarea.net/booleano/ | 17:22 |
| kanzure | "python" in title and category == "computing" and (rating > 3 or publication_date:year => 2007) and (not software or software:works_on_linux) | 17:22 |
| AchiestDragon | at that price its worth the extra to get a frame made to do it justice | 17:22 |
| AchiestDragon | should of said £250 for the 10" actuators | 17:24 |
| fenn | i don't know what you're talking about | 17:24 |
| fenn | acme threaded rod is $10/6ft | 17:24 |
| ybit | kanzure: at leasst your family members use the computer for something somewhat useful, i leave the house with my uncle for 40 mins and i come back to see 'porn-o-rama' on my computer | 17:25 |
| kanzure | is it good porn? | 17:26 |
| ybit | i dunno, i was too concerned about nasty bacteria and whatever else was left behind on my seat, keyboard, and mouse | 17:26 |
| kanzure | the obvious solution is to use a proxy to filter all images and replace them with goatse | 17:27 |
| ybit | i think there was a donkey and a panda involved, though ;) | 17:27 |
| AchiestDragon | fenn threaded rod is the wrong thread pitch and profile to use as a good leadscrew | 17:27 |
| fenn | oh i guess i should stop using it as a leadscrew then | 17:28 |
| AchiestDragon | yea cheap and sort of works , but the pitch is too fine and its profile gives too much friction | 17:28 |
| fenn | btw i explicitly said "acme" | 17:29 |
| AchiestDragon | sattelite jacks have the right sort of profile to the threads but theres no antibacklash | 17:29 |
| AchiestDragon | the commertial actuators they make that are like satelite jacks like shown on that pic are about £250 like 10X the cost of the satelitte jacks | 17:30 |
| AchiestDragon | a proper machined lead screw 10" long is going to cost about £70 to get machined for you ( there usualy made to order) although they do make standard lenths there still about the same price | 17:31 |
| AchiestDragon | if you get the leadscrew then you would still need to make that into an actuartor for that design | 17:32 |
| AchiestDragon | now i just stipped down 3 sattelite jacks for the leadscrews , but i can mod the nuts to make them antibacklash but unfortnatly you have to cut up the jack to do it , so no way to retrofit antibacklash to the jacks | 17:34 |
| AchiestDragon | if you could then would be a cheap way of doing that | 17:34 |
| AchiestDragon | but as its not posbile to mod them it rules them out | 17:34 |
| kanzure | i wonder if there's a way to traverse the parse tree in booleano | 17:35 |
| AchiestDragon | as to machining rapidly your stuck to the maximum cutting rate of the spindle motor , with a dremil then you may manage milling a 1mm cubic aria per second from aluminum | 17:36 |
| AchiestDragon | where as with a 1hp motor you could take 10mm cube per second of a lump of mild steel ,, but that puts the whole machine under the same 1hp worth of stress on each part of the frame while doing it | 17:38 |
| AchiestDragon | about the same as trying to bend it by using 2 cars as a vice and drving them together to crush it | 17:40 |
| AchiestDragon | assuming they both start from where there tuching | 17:41 |
| AchiestDragon | something will give ,, when you get that right it would be a 20mm dia milling cutter that should break first | 17:42 |
| AchiestDragon | other than the actual construction of that frame theres only one draw back of that design | 17:44 |
| AchiestDragon | space the ammount of size that frame takes in relation to the amount of workspace it offers is quite high | 17:45 |
| kanzure | http://piny.be/piny-code/architecture/needed_user_facing_infrastructure/ | 17:46 |
| kanzure | piny is joe rayhawk's ikiwiki+git hoster software | 17:47 |
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| fenn | "CGI frontend to adduser" sounds like a bad idea | 17:48 |
| fenn | i wonder if he's actually tried using ikiwiki | 17:49 |
| kanzure | heh | 17:50 |
| kanzure | he's kind of a masochist sysadmin | 17:50 |
| AchiestDragon | fenn the http://fennetic.com/gingery_machines/index.php?hextatic type machine in order for it to be useful for machinining steel the supporting bars would need to be 2" dia stainelss steel poles like on a pillar drill , and it would need blocks macining to join the ends of the tubes they would have to be from mild steel , the actuators would need to have the power of mini digger style hydrolic rams | 18:20 |
| AchiestDragon | should then have the strenth to take a spindle capable of milling out a 1" wide 1/8" deep cut from a mild steel block | 18:22 |
| AchiestDragon | so about 2 to 3 hp spindle motor | 18:22 |
| AchiestDragon | unfortunatly you would need a 5 axis machine to make the blocks for the frame to start with | 18:23 |
| AchiestDragon | anything smaller and the macine would bend rather than cut the metal | 18:24 |
| AchiestDragon | well bend or self distruct | 18:24 |
| fenn | you are totally missing the point | 18:24 |
| AchiestDragon | and the point | 18:25 |
| fenn | first of all you don't use a 1" endmill | 18:25 |
| fenn | second, the struts don't bend because all the forces go along the axis of the strut | 18:25 |
| fenn | and third you don't need precision 5 axis machined blocks | 18:26 |
| AchiestDragon | you would do if you wanted to rough cut the surface down say to make a lip 5mm high all the way arround the edge of a frontpannel ,, like having to go 5mm deep over an aria of about 18" by 5" | 18:27 |
| genehacker | define strut | 18:27 |
| genehacker | what does object strut refer to in this case | 18:27 |
| fenn | a round beam that can change its length | 18:27 |
| AchiestDragon | the supporting bars of the framework | 18:27 |
| AchiestDragon | the bit that adjusts is the actuator | 18:27 |
| genehacker | the hydraulic cylinders could be susceptible to buckling | 18:28 |
| AchiestDragon | there electric linear actuators | 18:28 |
| genehacker | yeah I know | 18:28 |
| fenn | yes buckling is an issue.. that's why the struts are only 18 inches | 18:29 |
| genehacker | anyway triangle top supports should only be in tension | 18:30 |
| genehacker | I am assuming you are making this out of steel? | 18:30 |
| genehacker | perhaps you should use steel with a high carbon content | 18:30 |
| genehacker | oh wait that doesn't affect the modulus | 18:31 |
| AchiestDragon | in tention in one plain but its also taking a rotational stress down the axis of the spindle that will try to twist the whole machine | 18:31 |
| genehacker | ok then dike out the spindle and replace it with a laser beam | 18:31 |
| genehacker | BAM no more rotational torque | 18:32 |
| AchiestDragon | if the frame is too light it would felx ,, the spindle motor would start to vibrate and within a short space of time the whole frame is resonating | 18:32 |
| genehacker | fortunately you can use the dual cylinders to apply a counter torque | 18:33 |
| genehacker | perhaps one could use active damping | 18:33 |
| AchiestDragon | if the spindle power is 500W then you would be looking at 20mm dia stainless bar at min for those frame rails | 18:33 |
| ybit | ITK_LIBRARY set as well? | 18:33 |
| ybit | fenn, kanzure | 18:33 |
| ybit | & ITCL_LIBRARY | 18:34 |
| genehacker | fenn do you have cad files of that hexapod? | 18:34 |
| AchiestDragon | yea laser , plasma cutter , water jet or sand or even spray gun ideal but machining steel with a cutter puts the machine under a lot of stress | 18:34 |
| genehacker | perhaps you could take advantage of the vibration damping properties of (FILE ERROR) cast iron | 18:35 |
| AchiestDragon | regardless of type of machine ,, like taking a hammer and chissle ,, how much force do you need to give it to chissle your name on the side of a block of steel | 18:35 |
| ybit | genehacker: what'd i miss, which hexapod? | 18:36 |
| genehacker | achiestdragon is arguing over this hexapod which I think fenn is working on | 18:37 |
| genehacker | http://fennetic.com/gingery_machines/index.php?hextatic | 18:37 |
| genehacker | oh I know | 18:37 |
| genehacker | use ECM | 18:37 |
| genehacker | electrochemical machining | 18:37 |
| AchiestDragon | but my goal is to be able to rapidly mill aluminum and do light milling on steel. <<<< that is the task is it not | 18:37 |
| * ybit hasn't read over the convo, maybe tomorrow since i have a day off then, (yay) | 18:38 | |
| genehacker | it's crazy accurate and can cut superalloys | 18:38 |
| ybit | that's neat | 18:38 |
| genehacker | if you apply MORE POWER you might be able to cut stuff rapidly | 18:38 |
| AchiestDragon | rappid milling 1" at 1/4" deep per second , is like 1/4" cube every 1/4 second | 18:38 |
| genehacker | fenn do you have cad files? | 18:39 |
| AchiestDragon | more power more stress , if you think the standard router design often used is only just capable of machining aluminium with some success and the requirements for steel are about 10 times the strenth | 18:40 |
| AchiestDragon | and need a lot higher spindle horsepower to manage it also | 18:40 |
| genehacker | so how'd we get on this topic anyway? | 18:40 |
| AchiestDragon | then a 500w router would requre the frame to be able to take the full load power of that as if jammed and not flex more than 1 thou | 18:41 |
| genehacker | anyway why not just make something capable of doing automatic investment casting? | 18:43 |
| AchiestDragon | for that on that framework you would need about 1" dia bar for the frame ,,, but a 500W router is only going to give you a 1/8" cube per seccond cut rate at most from steel | 18:43 |
| genehacker | did you calculate that out? | 18:44 |
| genehacker | perhaps one could use a material with a higher modulus | 18:44 |
| AchiestDragon | it may take a 20 ton to bend a 4" dia 1/4" thick bar , but get a 18" lenth of it and tap it at the end it will ring like a bell , and be vibrating more than a couple of mil each way in at the ends in the process | 18:45 |
| drazak | katsmeow-afk: that seattle robotics place is a good find, they know shittones about electronics | 18:45 |
| AchiestDragon | how are you joining the frame poles together fenn | 18:46 |
| ybit | kanzure, fenn: where is Display.OCCViewer | 18:58 |
| ybit | did it come in some package that i'm missing because apt-file and locate are clueless | 18:58 |
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| katsmeow-afk | AchiestDragon , if it jammed, i hope your driver electronics are smart enough to shut it down before it got there | 19:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | which is why i wanted to use dc, it's easier to control closely | 19:20 |
| fenn | frame poles squished at ends and held together with a single bolt at each vertex | 19:20 |
| katsmeow-afk | frame poles = EMT ? | 19:21 |
| fenn | something like that | 19:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's pretty sturdy stuff, and you can beef it some by slipping a smaller size inside the outside one | 19:22 |
| fenn | i dont think that would help | 19:22 |
| fenn | i did have this idea bout using two pipes with viscoelastic shear fluid between | 19:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | i mounted car ac compressors that way :-) | 19:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | 30 yrs later, i now know the right way to do it, and can | 19:23 |
| katsmeow-afk | i did the squashed emt to mount a golfcart motor in a VW beatle too | 19:23 |
| katsmeow-afk | *that's* some torque | 19:24 |
| ybit | damn, my pastebin is the first result when googling for Display.OCCViewer | 19:29 |
| fenn | why not just use angle iron? | 19:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | i didn't have it, nor a way to work with it, 30 yrs ago | 19:29 |
| fenn | ybit: it should be in python.../site-packages/OCC/Display/ | 19:29 |
| ybit | ah, found it | 19:29 |
| ybit | fenn: yep | 19:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | and i didn't wann aput more money into something i didn't have a clue would work or not: a VW electric ~1975 | 19:29 |
| * ybit was shown to the backroom today. it was neat and depressing at the same time, because i won't be working on anything but one of those items, and it's the only one they gave me permission to even mention to anyone | 19:37 | |
| kanzure | http://code.gustavonarea.net/booleano/tutorials/evaluable-parsing.html | 19:38 |
| ybit | we'll be working on a bionic arm here soon, and that makes me happy | 19:38 |
| kanzure | i was going to do something with dependencies today with that | 19:38 |
| fenn | you work at a place with secrets? | 19:38 |
| kanzure | but now i'm not sure what | 19:38 |
| ybit | fenn: yeah :\ | 19:38 |
| fenn | did you sign an NDA? | 19:38 |
| ybit | yeah | 19:38 |
| fenn | wow | 19:38 |
| fenn | welcome to the dark side ybit | 19:39 |
| * ybit no likey and yet, i do :P | 19:39 | |
| katsmeow-afk | yeas, you can't even complain when your nick isn't on the patent anywhere | 19:39 |
| ybit | lots to learn, sad i can't talk about everything though | 19:40 |
| kanzure | bullshit | 19:40 |
| ybit | it's not super secret kanzure, just stuff like i mentioned above | 19:40 |
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| ybit | they're in the process of patenting the arm, that's why i'm not able to discuss that, the other stuff is military tech | 19:41 |
| drazak | ok, you guys know how to make mathmatica things and stuff | 19:45 |
| * ybit doesn't use mathematica | 19:45 | |
| ybit | holy fuck, interactiveviewer worked | 19:45 |
| * katsmeow-afk also doesn't too | 19:45 | |
| drazak | or some sort of equation solver | 19:46 |
| ybit | drazak: go with sage, save the gnus | 19:46 |
| drazak | x=1/(ln(2)*a(b+2c) | 19:47 |
| drazak | i betcha I could just plug in two of the values and get something nice | 19:47 |
| ybit | drazak: i'm just messing with you, i only use my trust ti-82 ;) | 19:47 |
| drazak | but I need to make two of the values so the third is sane | 19:47 |
| ybit | trusty* | 19:47 |
| katsmeow-afk | hell with bug spray, use spray mount adhesive | 19:48 |
| kanzure | ybit: what was the fix? | 19:48 |
| ybit | kanzure: that's what i'm trying to figure out | 19:48 |
| ybit | kanzure: i think it was all of CSF_* stuff, in particular, CSF_GraphicShr | 19:49 |
| kanzure | it would have complained about not having that variable set | 19:49 |
| ybit | i hadn't done that, figured the occ packages would do it | 19:49 |
| drazak | hm | 19:49 |
| drazak | I could use a small value for a and everything else would be set | 19:50 |
| ybit | it did complain about the tcl tck stuff, and it did work after setting that tcl_lib and tk_lib, it could have been any one of those sys env settings | 19:50 |
| * ybit was just about to specify where OCCViewer.py was, but didn't see the error, so i ran interactiverviewer.py once more to get the error, and it worked | 19:51 | |
| ybit | drazak: i'm not following, you ned to make two of the values so the third is sane? | 19:52 |
| ybit | o i c | 19:53 |
| drazak | ybit: yeah | 19:54 |
| drazak | ybit: I could pick b and c and let a fall where it may for a given value of x | 19:55 |
| drazak | b and c need to be inheriently small to get a large x | 19:55 |
| drazak | and a is inheriently small anyway, cause of what it is | 19:55 |
| drazak | a is a cap, the value for the equation is in farads, b and c are resistors in ohms | 19:56 |
| drazak | well... I could use a trimpot | 20:02 |
| drazak | but then I'd have to set the cap so that at near the minimum of the pot it goes to the highest frequency I need | 20:04 |
| ybit | sorry drazak, was fixing the complaints from the lack of CSF_GraphicShr being set, after stating that i had specified it earlier :P | 20:05 |
| ybit | http://bayimg.com/image/caemdaacc.jpg | 20:05 |
| drazak | hmmm | 20:05 |
| fenn | i just do CSF_GraphicShr='' to get it to shut up | 20:06 |
| ybit | i did export CSF_GraphicShr=/usr/lib/libTKOpenGl.so | 20:06 |
| ybit | drazak: i'm stumped, try #math? :-\ | 20:07 |
| drazak | I'm not stumped | 20:08 |
| drazak | :) | 20:08 |
| ybit | orlly? | 20:08 |
| drazak | nah | 20:08 |
| fenn | drazak: is this a 555 circuit? | 20:13 |
| drazak | fenn: AYE | 20:13 |
| drazak | er, without capslock | 20:13 |
| fenn | ok how precise/stable does it have to be? | 20:14 |
| fenn | if not very you can use a tiny cap = tiny power dissipation | 20:14 |
| fenn | like 1uF | 20:14 |
| drazak | I'm using it as a squarewave function generator for testing headphone amps and testing an oscilloscope | 20:15 |
| drazak | I was actually considering something like 100nf | 20:15 |
| fenn | ok close enough | 20:15 |
| drazak | needs to be fairly stable | 20:15 |
| drazak | but not perfect | 20:15 |
| fenn | btw most capacitors are like +-10% so if your frequency is important, best to use a trimpot | 20:22 |
| drazak | yeah | 20:22 |
| drazak | I know | 20:22 |
| fenn | but if your scope is not calibrated i don't really know how to calibrate the 555 | 20:22 |
| kanzure | i wonder if booleano can deal with recursive expressions. i.e., parse_manager.parse("book:title is 'Introduction to Physics' and book:author is " + some_other_parse_tree) | 20:22 |
| fenn | unless you have an LCR meter | 20:22 |
| drazak | I could buy a 1% cap | 20:22 |
| drazak | then it'd be fairly close | 20:23 |
| fenn | how about outputting something from a computer | 20:23 |
| drazak | computers are good a sinewaves | 20:23 |
| drazak | not good at flat waves | 20:23 |
| fenn | too much filtering on audio out? | 20:23 |
| drazak | yeah | 20:23 |
| drazak | it looks like a garbled mess out of all but the best soundcards | 20:24 |
| fenn | anyway it will get you the right frequency so that you can calibrate other stuff | 20:24 |
| drazak | maybe | 20:24 |
| drazak | :D | 20:24 |
| drazak | I could get it in range with a 1% cap | 20:24 |
| * ybit needs a smaller cad file, the hemi engine step file won't even display, grr. | 20:29 | |
| ybit | and just when i say that, it displays | 20:29 |
| drazak | fenn: trimpots go 0-value right? | 20:34 |
| fenn | some of them, but usually it's part of a switch and not a smooth transition | 20:34 |
| drazak | that's ok | 20:34 |
| drazak | what's the usual minimum value? | 20:34 |
| fenn | usually it's open circuit though | 20:34 |
| fenn | ybit: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/lego_stepmodels.tgz | 20:35 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/iv2.jpg :: that's me trying to rotate the hemi | 20:38 |
| ybit | ty you fenn | 20:40 |
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| fenn | yw welcome ybit | 20:41 |
| ybit | :P | 20:42 |
| ybit | it works nicely with simple models, what a relief | 20:42 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/iv3.jpg | 20:44 |
| ybit | the cpu usage spike is from scrot grabbing a screenshot | 20:45 |
| kanzure | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/which_street_nashville.jpg | 20:47 |
| kanzure | i think i'll go straight | 20:47 |
| ybit | hehe | 20:48 |
| ybit | that dir is about to increase significantly with sci-fi/futuristic drawings, downloaded quite a bit of those type of images yesterday when brainstorming over the layout on the propery | 20:51 |
| fenn | ohboy | 20:51 |
| fenn | you know maybe you should sort your images a bit | 20:52 |
| flamoot | all eyes are on the aura of electronic intelligence that shines around the transcendental object at the end of time or, "Singularity" | 20:56 |
| kanzure | what the fuck | 20:56 |
| flamoot | all eyes on deck | 20:57 |
| flamoot | let's look at it together | 20:57 |
| * flamoot gazes at the nascent AI's | 20:57 | |
| fenn | om mani padme hummmm | 20:58 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/pie.py i wrote this thinking that it would be only a quick next step to do a proper Pie.build method but i was wrong :( | 21:41 |
| ybit | anyone used http://www.hpfem.jku.at/netgen/ ? | 21:43 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:43 |
| ybit | supposedly good for grid generation | 21:43 |
| kanzure | tetgen too | 21:43 |
| kanzure | gmsh also doesn't suck | 21:43 |
| ybit | so what visualization tool was decided on for skdb? | 21:49 |
| ybit | was it this: http://www.shocksolution.com/microfluidics-and-biotechnology/python-vtk-paraview/ | 21:50 |
| kanzure | no | 21:53 |
| kanzure | run paths.py | 21:53 |
| kanzure | ybit: you have time for a walkthrough? | 21:55 |
| ybit | yeah sure | 21:55 |
| kanzure | hm i seem to be having some local problems | 21:55 |
| kanzure | ../../../libdrm/intel/intel_bufmgr_gem.c:721: Error preparing buffer map -1349728242 ((null)): Invalid argument . | 21:55 |
| kanzure | python: vbo/vbo_save_api.c:216: map_vertex_store: Assertion `vertex_store->buffer' failed. | 21:55 |
| kanzure | (i've been having some issues with my graphics card) | 21:56 |
| kanzure | well anyway, just run paths.py in skdb | 21:56 |
| ybit | right, i have a few problems of my own to fix | 21:57 |
| ybit | env variables again | 21:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: shape_volume has been deleted apparently? | 21:58 |
| kanzure | (running some of the unit tests) | 21:58 |
| ybit | ODD | 22:00 |
| ybit | import skdb | 22:00 |
| ybit | ImportError: No module named skdb | 22:00 |
| ybit | *** glibc detected *** python: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x09d15ba8 *** | 22:00 |
| ybit | ^C | 22:00 |
| ybit | togetic:/home/heath/projects/skdb# echo $PYTHONPATH | 22:00 |
| ybit | :/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC:/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx/:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/OCC:/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx/:/home/heath/projects/skdb/ | 22:00 |
| kanzure | that last item in your path should be one directory up | 22:01 |
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| ybit | ah | 22:02 |
| ybit | hehe, like the output from the cli | 22:06 |
| ybit | why are we using something that's not even in debian (python-graph)? | 22:06 |
| ybit | so what was that, it looked like a tube with a flag hanging it from it :P | 22:06 |
| ybit | oh, an arrow, and it quit doing whatever it was doing because of an error | 22:08 |
| ybit | maybe i should pastebin some of the relevant cli history? | 22:08 |
| ybit | File "/home/heath/projects/skdb/core/interface.py", line 140, in connect | 22:20 |
| ybit | assert self.interface1.part in cgraph.dict().values() | 22:20 |
| ybit | AssertionError | 22:20 |
| ybit | hmm | 22:21 |
| ybit | what's the error is my Q | 22:21 |
| ybit | i need more thatn just assertionerror | 22:21 |
| ybit | /usr/lib/libcgraph.so.4 | 22:21 |
| kanzure | you probably don't have cgraph | 22:24 |
| kanzure | also, it turns out pythonocc doesn't compile with swig-1.3.40 and only likes swig-1.3.36 | 22:25 |
| kanzure | that's a funky error anyway, what is cgraph doing in core/interface.py ? | 22:26 |
| fenn | some open manufacturing project context stuffs: http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/crisis-at-the-factor-e-farm/2009/08/10 | 22:27 |
| fenn | i do wish there were other development sites besides Factor E Farm | 22:28 |
| fenn | by "site" i mean physical location where stuff is happening | 22:28 |
| fenn | are there others and I just don't know about it? N55 is probably one of the few others and that kinda puttered out after one of the people died | 22:28 |
| ybit | the beginning of a log while getting paths.py working | 22:30 |
| ybit | http://pastebin.com/f72635dbc | 22:30 |
| ybit | afk, forming a corporation on 10/28, 10:28 :P | 22:32 |
| genehacker | ybit what arm? robot arm? | 22:33 |
| ybit | genehacker: prosthetics | 22:33 |
| ybit | oh damn, it's 9/28, well that ruins everything | 22:33 |
| genehacker | all I care about is if it hooks up to the nervous system | 23:29 |
| genehacker | good luck | 23:29 |
| genehacker | hope it works | 23:29 |
| ybit | thanks, it should be a somewhat fun learning exp. | 23:43 |
| kanzure | Sep 28 23:34:51 pikachu kernel: [ 5518.842406] python[10186]: segfault at 30 ip afed775d sp bf8b8f70 error 4 in i965_dri.so[afe9e000+268000] | 23:43 |
| ybit | grr, kanzure, what was the name of the book you and i both mentioned yesterday? it was named ~"Nano__ & Micromanufacturing" | 23:47 |
| ybit | can't find it in the logs | 23:47 |
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