| --- Day changed Sat Oct 10 2009 | ||
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| flamoot | http://ansistego.sourceforge.net/running-bear.png | 02:51 |
|---|---|---|
| genehacker | what's that doing of sourceforge | 02:55 |
| genehacker | that's not supposed to be there | 02:55 |
| -!- katsmeow is now known as katsmeow-afk | 03:45 | |
| fenn | oo this is cool.. webcam-based head tracking for 3d immersion http://www.k2.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/vision/ptz_wz_headtracking/yamaguchi_chi2009.wmv | 03:58 |
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| fenn | more on that line of thought http://www.k2.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/perception/ParallaxAugmentedDisplay/index-e.html | 05:12 |
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| fenn | more gargoyle tech.. it's too bad these things are flash.. wasn't this the point of quicktime vr? | 08:08 |
| fenn | http://twistedsifter.com/2009/07/yellowbird-3d-video/ | 08:09 |
| fenn | when i was thinking about this before it would instead be mounted _around_ the operator's head, not above him | 08:13 |
| fenn | like a helmet cam but pointing every direction | 08:13 |
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| * kanzure runs into fenn in yet another search | 09:33 | |
| fenn | what this time | 09:34 |
| kanzure | bookmarks | 09:39 |
| kanzure | was looking if anyone has used ODE with OCC | 09:39 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/hdd-links | 09:40 |
| kanzure | for the past few months i have been keeping track of the origin of content stored on my computers | 09:40 |
| fenn | you mean like where you downloaded it? | 09:41 |
| kanzure | for some reason i have stabilized on a standard of just throwing in urls into a file called url.txt in each dir | 09:41 |
| kanzure | yes | 09:41 |
| fenn | i wish i had done that ten years ago | 09:41 |
| kanzure | me too :( | 09:41 |
| fenn | but urls die so quick it's kinda useless | 09:41 |
| kanzure | it's somewhat more useful than bookmarks | 09:41 |
| kanzure | since it's right where you might be wondering "wtf" | 09:41 |
| fenn | i guess | 09:41 |
| kanzure | the hdd-links file is the combined output of many "url.txt" files | 09:42 |
| kanzure | http://1centbp.com/ woot tito was good for something | 09:54 |
| fenn | tito wrote that? | 09:58 |
| -!- Trooem [i=Trooem@121.172.10.138] has joined #hplusroadmap | 10:13 | |
| kanzure | he linked to it | 10:13 |
| kanzure | hello Trooem | 10:13 |
| Trooem | hi | 10:13 |
| kanzure | are you a truism? | 10:13 |
| Trooem | who is this bryan person from heybryan? | 10:13 |
| Trooem | i don't know what that is. no. | 10:14 |
| kanzure | me :) | 10:14 |
| Trooem | really? | 10:14 |
| kanzure | yes | 10:14 |
| Trooem | wow | 10:14 |
| kanzure | what can i do for you? | 10:14 |
| Trooem | i've been reading your website thoroughly | 10:14 |
| kanzure | it's kind of a black hole | 10:14 |
| kanzure | be careful | 10:14 |
| Trooem | i am amazed. | 10:14 |
| Trooem | are you really 19? | 10:14 |
| Trooem | are you still 19 i meant | 10:14 |
| kanzure | yes | 10:14 |
| Trooem | dear lord.. | 10:14 |
| kanzure | i feel old | 10:15 |
| Trooem | how can you cover so much fields | 10:15 |
| Trooem | in such an early age? | 10:15 |
| Trooem | ........i'm in online marketing, | 10:15 |
| Trooem | i'm 25. | 10:15 |
| kanzure | are you? | 10:15 |
| kanzure | i've been looking for a marketing person | 10:15 |
| Trooem | well, i'm your man if you need information or making a quick buck | 10:15 |
| kanzure | i'm not the best at selling myself or explaining to investors what on earth it is that i am doing | 10:16 |
| Trooem | i'm planning on making 10k per day, that's my goal... don't know if it'll come true fast enought but... | 10:16 |
| Trooem | i see | 10:16 |
| Trooem | i'm not much of a salesletter person.. what i do is just hire people online to make the salesletter or | 10:17 |
| kanzure | how did you find me? | 10:17 |
| Trooem | just copy and paste their content | 10:17 |
| kanzure | what is a salesletter? | 10:17 |
| Trooem | main .index page of any products- | 10:17 |
| Trooem | which is 1 page | 10:17 |
| Trooem | sales letter | 10:17 |
| Trooem | and they have a--- | 10:17 |
| kanzure | sorry, i don't understand | 10:18 |
| Trooem | paypal acceptance or credit card payment processing link at the end | 10:18 |
| Trooem | ok | 10:18 |
| kanzure | oh | 10:18 |
| Trooem | i'll show you a example. | 10:18 |
| Trooem | http://warcraftriches.com/ | 10:18 |
| Trooem | that's a information product. | 10:18 |
| Trooem | and what you see in there is a sales letter. | 10:18 |
| kanzure | looks like spam | 10:19 |
| Trooem | just a 1 page, sales letter- to persuade people into buying | 10:19 |
| kanzure | do people seriously buy this shit? | 10:19 |
| Trooem | no there is a difference between spam and permission based marketing | 10:19 |
| Trooem | it depends | 10:19 |
| drazak | kanzure: you suffere from the same problem as I | 10:19 |
| Trooem | that warcraft niche- is overflooded. | 10:19 |
| kanzure | drazak: aging? | 10:19 |
| Trooem | but niches in medicine- | 10:19 |
| Trooem | no | 10:19 |
| kanzure | i wasn't aware that there was a WoW niche | 10:19 |
| drazak | kanzure: "uhm well I have this great idea that will work, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH..." "oh uhm, what?" | 10:20 |
| Trooem | it's about quantity | 10:20 |
| kanzure | drazak: i've started to just carry around a laptop and show them working demos | 10:20 |
| Trooem | there is. you keyword research- and there is a whole volume millions per day- | 10:20 |
| Trooem | WoW became a success... | 10:20 |
| Trooem | anyway | 10:20 |
| Trooem | what i do is, | 10:20 |
| Trooem | i promote info products, e-commerce related tangible products, and 'pharmaceuticals' per say with permission based | 10:21 |
| Trooem | marketing | 10:21 |
| Trooem | i actually build a database of leads and lists of people | 10:21 |
| Trooem | who are genuinely interested | 10:21 |
| Trooem | in the products | 10:21 |
| Trooem | the niche | 10:21 |
| Trooem | and pound them with the information they ask for | 10:21 |
| kanzure | usually these lists of people are harvested from signup forms with checkboxes saying [x] yes i am interested in receiving .. | 10:21 |
| Trooem | yup | 10:22 |
| kanzure | these are usually checked to "yes please" by default on web pages | 10:22 |
| drazak | kanzure: wtf is the deal with that anestisizing mice thread | 10:22 |
| drazak | politics much? | 10:22 |
| kanzure | drazak: haven't read it | 10:22 |
| Trooem | i found you kanzure- because i was interested in that 'build a brain' article | 10:22 |
| drazak | makes me want to shoot everyone who's involved heatedly | 10:22 |
| kanzure | Trooem: ah, neat | 10:23 |
| Trooem | how plausible do you think it is- seeing that in reality- | 10:23 |
| Trooem | 10, 20 years? | 10:23 |
| drazak | Trooem: build a brain, atleasts biologically, is probably 15 years away | 10:23 |
| kanzure | Trooem: i just got back from a conference about that | 10:23 |
| kanzure | i think less, drazak | 10:23 |
| Trooem | really, what did they say> | 10:23 |
| kanzure | ed boyden and many others are already doing transgenic brains | 10:23 |
| kanzure | in fact, transgenic brains have been around for more than a decade | 10:23 |
| Trooem | how close are the experts on that | 10:23 |
| kanzure | one sec | 10:23 |
| Trooem | are they building an wetware based A.I out of it? | 10:23 |
| drazak | kanzure: well, I was talking about from cells on an ECM | 10:23 |
| drazak | kanzure: implantable, or something | 10:24 |
| kanzure | Trooem: no | 10:24 |
| drazak | not in an animal | 10:24 |
| Trooem | hmm i see | 10:24 |
| kanzure | Trooem: which part about the "building brains" article are you referring to? | 10:24 |
| Trooem | Anybody in the know would realize just how hard it is to grow a brain, much less a noncontaminated tissue culture in the lab. It sucks immensely. Growing a full, beating brain would force us to face some issues of vascularization and other aspects of tissue engineering. Organ farms are going to have to solve this one day too, but let's ignore it. What's important about the brain is the interaction between the neurons and the growth of the neurons to c | 10:25 |
| Trooem | http://heybryan.org/buildingbrains.html | 10:25 |
| kanzure | right | 10:25 |
| kanzure | neuron tissue cultures are certainly possible | 10:25 |
| kanzure | but it's hard to make the neurons not die | 10:25 |
| kanzure | clean rooms are a good start, but even academic labs get infected with viruses and all of the cultures just crash | 10:25 |
| kanzure | drazak: didn't you say you had an infection the other day? | 10:25 |
| Trooem | they'd need to bio-engineer quite a bit the neurons to be able to make them practical.... errr.. | 10:26 |
| Trooem | kanzure, your covering so many fields, what is your ultimate scope, goal? | 10:26 |
| Trooem | i'm curious | 10:26 |
| Trooem | transhumanism? | 10:26 |
| kanzure | transhumanism and then some, yes | 10:27 |
| Trooem | not being pessimistic or trying to be, i'm all optimistic about --- anything. | 10:27 |
| Trooem | cool | 10:27 |
| kanzure | sounds dangerous | 10:27 |
| kanzure | being optimistic about anything, i mean | 10:27 |
| Trooem | i guess the best and sure way is --- cryonics? | 10:27 |
| Trooem | have you made a account with alcor? | 10:27 |
| kanzure | no, i'm too broke | 10:27 |
| Trooem | or CI? | 10:27 |
| kanzure | nope | 10:27 |
| Trooem | i see | 10:27 |
| Trooem | yeah your 19, student. | 10:28 |
| kanzure | they haven't thawed a human successfully yet (or ever) | 10:28 |
| Trooem | interesting... | 10:28 |
| Trooem | not publically probably.... | 10:28 |
| Trooem | but maybe somewhere lol | 10:28 |
| fenn | hum i thought i read some article recently about reconfigurable FPGA's as something like HTM/neural net | 10:28 |
| kanzure | they would publicize the hell out of that | 10:28 |
| fenn | did i imagine that? | 10:28 |
| fenn | it was for an embodied robot | 10:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: you're missing an adjective in that sentence. what about FPGAs and HTMs and ANNs? | 10:29 |
| fenn | for "building brains" | 10:29 |
| kanzure | or a verb | 10:29 |
| kanzure | yes it's true you can implement all sorts of algorithms on FPGAs | 10:29 |
| fenn | yeah but this is actually the right way to do it | 10:29 |
| Trooem | it's so darn weird, just about every topic you mentioned here: http://heybryan.org/transhuman/roadmap.html | 10:29 |
| Trooem | what i've been thinking about | 10:29 |
| kanzure | Trooem: that document is old | 10:30 |
| kanzure | please ignore it | 10:30 |
| Trooem | but yours just far more detailed. i've been in online marketing... | 10:30 |
| fenn | i mean biology sucks, we need to figure out how to implement the cortical algorithm on silicon | 10:30 |
| kanzure | i wish i could apologize to the internet for that "roadmap" | 10:30 |
| kanzure | Trooem: here's what i've been up to: http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb | 10:30 |
| Trooem | yeah i was hoping i'd see some updates on it | 10:30 |
| Trooem | thanks | 10:30 |
| kanzure | skdb is sort of like the roadmap except on wheels and gears | 10:30 |
| Trooem | so i'm guessing your ultimate goal is AI of sort? | 10:31 |
| kanzure | no, i don't know what intelligence is | 10:31 |
| fenn | i'd settle for what hawkins describes | 10:31 |
| fenn | sorry to geek out about it | 10:31 |
| Trooem | anything neurons can handle lol, maybe that's not upto you to understand... just force it? | 10:31 |
| Trooem | lol | 10:31 |
| Trooem | i'm really interested in A.I with wetware | 10:32 |
| Trooem | william ditto's been experimenting with leech neurons | 10:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: please read some mountcastle and whatever markram references (though not necessarily what markram writes, he doesn't write explicitly on columns) | 10:32 |
| Trooem | and succeeded in that 1+1=2 | 10:32 |
| Trooem | lol | 10:32 |
| kanzure | sorry why would it be artificial if it's wetware? | 10:32 |
| fenn | wah | 10:32 |
| Trooem | hmm... well, synthetic biology. | 10:32 |
| Trooem | i would assume they wouldn't let human neurons to screw around ethically | 10:33 |
| Trooem | so they'd need to make it artificial? | 10:33 |
| Trooem | i don't know | 10:33 |
| fenn | there's nothing spcial about human neurons | 10:33 |
| Trooem | yeah probably all neurons are similar i don't know jack about this field | 10:33 |
| fenn | anyway you can make new neurons with stem cells | 10:33 |
| Trooem | i'm just starting to get into it | 10:33 |
| fenn | the problem is just doing tissue culture at all | 10:33 |
| fenn | it's a pain in the ass | 10:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: have you ever set one up? | 10:34 |
| Trooem | i've mastered online marketing. i'm getting funds. heheheh | 10:34 |
| kanzure | Trooem: you're getting funds? | 10:34 |
| fenn | i've done tissue culture but it's not like i ran the lab | 10:34 |
| kanzure | what does that mean? | 10:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: did they live? :) | 10:34 |
| fenn | yeah for a few months | 10:34 |
| fenn | i had beating heart cells and pigmented retinal cells etc | 10:34 |
| Trooem | i'm succeeding in online marketing that's what it means. i can get targeted traffic online anywhere for any niche, and turn that into legal money. | 10:34 |
| kanzure | pigmented? sorry, what? | 10:34 |
| Trooem | that's what it means. | 10:34 |
| fenn | it's pretty cool how they just start beating on their own | 10:34 |
| fenn | pigmented = purple from the retinol | 10:35 |
| Trooem | this also means, i don't need to worry about getting a job, spending time there etc etc... | 10:35 |
| Trooem | however, | 10:35 |
| kanzure | i wanted to make a microcircuit / microcolumn in a dish | 10:35 |
| kanzure | in the mouse brain these are 10k to 100k neurons | 10:35 |
| Trooem | i'm pretty screwed with academics so, i'm starting over again now. | 10:35 |
| kanzure | in a very particular organization | 10:35 |
| kanzure | (probably due to gene expression gradients during the neuron-phase of embryology) | 10:35 |
| Trooem | at a very late age... but hoping money will buy me time. | 10:36 |
| Trooem | and... cheat into schools. | 10:36 |
| fenn | Trooem: learning is easier than ever these days | 10:36 |
| Trooem | rofl. | 10:36 |
| fenn | school is bullshit | 10:36 |
| kanzure | Trooem: you don't have to go to school | 10:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: stop reading my mind | 10:36 |
| Trooem | fenn: that's why i want to cheat | 10:36 |
| kanzure | ? | 10:36 |
| fenn | i think you're just predisposed to cheating | 10:36 |
| Trooem | kanzure: i know, with internet and networks everywhere on whatever you want to learn, research and learning depends on your will, not school, but------ | 10:37 |
| kanzure | fenn: another good author is casanova | 10:37 |
| Trooem | i want a degree just in case | 10:37 |
| fenn | kanzure: what's with these guys' names? | 10:37 |
| Trooem | i come from a family which values that jazz | 10:37 |
| kanzure | The minicolumn-macrocolumn relationship may be linked in part to both the termination of projections from the thalamus, which span a fixed distance and may serve to link together minicolumns that receive input from the same thalamocortical fibers, and by the effects of serotonin, changing columnar development in the cortex during brain development (Casanova 2006). | 10:37 |
| Trooem | so... | 10:37 |
| Trooem | that's why... | 10:37 |
| kanzure | fenn: hm? | 10:37 |
| fenn | casanova, mountcastle.. | 10:37 |
| fenn | why can't i have a name like that | 10:37 |
| kanzure | it's a theme | 10:37 |
| Trooem | otherwise if it was completly upto me, i wouldn't waste so much time on that. | 10:37 |
| Trooem | for me, i absolutely know nothing about anything in academia, just graduated high school so......... | 10:38 |
| fenn | boo hoo hoo | 10:38 |
| kanzure | suppose you could accurately write a general "minicolumn" class that represents a minicolumn in a brain | 10:38 |
| Trooem | i'm just going to have to study chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry.... etc etc... | 10:38 |
| fenn | Trooem: http://en.wikipedia.org/ start clicking | 10:38 |
| kanzure | i want to know the parameters for different individuals, or different regions of the brain in different species | 10:38 |
| Trooem | to be able to scratch the surface of molecular bio and syn bio right? | 10:38 |
| kanzure | to be honest too many people "know" biology and "synthetic biology" | 10:39 |
| Trooem | fenn: there are limits to what i can understand without fundamental learning. hehehhe... | 10:39 |
| kanzure | i wish more bioinformatics people were into synthetic biology | 10:39 |
| fenn | Trooem: nonsense | 10:39 |
| Trooem | fenn: really? | 10:39 |
| fenn | Trooem: you don't have to know what a quark is to tie your shoelaces | 10:39 |
| * kanzure does | 10:39 | |
| kanzure | it helps to figure out the quirks in the knots | 10:39 |
| Trooem | i can always hire people smarter than myself i guess, make them do the work and all, but i'd gotta understand the mechanics at least... | 10:40 |
| kanzure | you can figure out the mechanics | 10:40 |
| kanzure | this is not magic | 10:40 |
| Trooem | kanzure, you in uni of texas? | 10:40 |
| kanzure | officially, yes | 10:40 |
| Trooem | you should goto MIT or something man | 10:40 |
| kanzure | they rejected me | 10:40 |
| Trooem | was it the grades? | 10:40 |
| kanzure | nah, i didn't kiss enough ass | 10:41 |
| fenn | they never say why, just to haunt your for the rest of your life | 10:41 |
| Trooem | i'm sure your smart enough though | 10:41 |
| Trooem | and then some | 10:41 |
| Trooem | or other prestigious schools... | 10:41 |
| kanzure | honestly now i don't think i would want to go to MIT for undergrad | 10:41 |
| kanzure | that's a hell | 10:41 |
| Trooem | i'm planning on cheating into one with help of a friend. | 10:41 |
| Trooem | lol | 10:41 |
| Trooem | .. | 10:41 |
| kanzure | i would rather be a lab tech or something at MIT | 10:41 |
| Trooem | i c.. | 10:41 |
| kanzure | maybe sneak into their machine shops? | 10:41 |
| Trooem | brb | 10:42 |
| fenn | have you ever actually made something? | 10:42 |
| kanzure | besides bullshit? | 10:42 |
| kanzure | hm | 10:42 |
| fenn | i mean, a functional device | 10:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: have you seen markram's talk ever? he had some good pointers for what to look up | 10:43 |
| fenn | i saw something about blue brain | 10:43 |
| kanzure | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2874207418572601262&q=almaden+cognitive+computing | 10:43 |
| kanzure | was it "the emergence of intelligence in the neocortical microcircuit"? | 10:43 |
| fenn | i guess i'm not really that interested in the details of how it actually works | 10:43 |
| fenn | i just want to play around and see what happens | 10:43 |
| fenn | i have a feeling that a lot of crap is unnecessary | 10:44 |
| kanzure | i'm not denying that | 10:44 |
| fenn | why should neuroscience be complicated? | 10:44 |
| kanzure | only the literature is complicated | 10:44 |
| kanzure | it's because people look at the brain and go "oh shit wtf" | 10:44 |
| fenn | hawkins is getting good results with his approach already | 10:44 |
| kanzure | besides OCR? | 10:45 |
| fenn | i dont suppose you know of any open source alternative development efforts | 10:45 |
| fenn | for HTM | 10:45 |
| kanzure | i had a list on my wiki once | 10:45 |
| kanzure | under the "computational neuroscience" page | 10:45 |
| fenn | it wasn't OCR, more like "what is this?" "it's a cat" what is this? "it's a boat" | 10:45 |
| Trooem | kanzure, what do you think of regenerative medicine, aubrey de gray's SENS approach and nanomedicine and all that, you think immortality is near us? | 10:46 |
| kanzure | gah why isn't djangit done yet | 10:46 |
| fenn | that was the hot young intern's job | 10:46 |
| Trooem | say in 20 years? | 10:46 |
| kanzure | Trooem: i like aubrey but think that more people should do SENS-related-research in their own home | 10:46 |
| kanzure | fenn: i'd like to point out that we did not, in fact, get a hot young intern | 10:47 |
| Trooem | i c | 10:47 |
| Trooem | damn... just reading your blog, i'm hesitant to wonder what you can do if you knew the skills i have and advance on it... | 10:48 |
| fenn | i have been watching high speed sensory fusion videos from ishikawa-komura lab today.. i've come to appreciate the need for realtime processing, which is why i'm rambling about FPGA's | 10:48 |
| kanzure | Trooem: i have a blog? | 10:48 |
| Trooem | i have trouble understanding technical concepts but you.. | 10:48 |
| kanzure | fenn: this might be it? http://web.archive.org/web/20080525114029/heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Computational_biology | 10:48 |
| kanzure | Trooem: most people suck at explaining things | 10:48 |
| Trooem | well, the heybryan.org | 10:48 |
| Trooem | hmm | 10:48 |
| kanzure | fenn: NEURON, PGENESIS, "emergence" from colorado, lots of software out there | 10:49 |
| fenn | https://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=189617 <- those are the same images as Numenta uses | 10:49 |
| kanzure | there's also a python group doing this | 10:49 |
| kanzure | what's their name? urhm.. | 10:49 |
| Trooem | i'm trying to figure out if we can make a deal somehow and team up kanzure. legitimately if interested! | 10:49 |
| fenn | kanzure: you're missing the point.. i don't want to simulate biology | 10:49 |
| Trooem | but then i'm an ignorant when it comes to academics so i have no idea | 10:49 |
| kanzure | fenn: do ANNs simulate biology? | 10:49 |
| fenn | no | 10:50 |
| kanzure | Trooem: okay | 10:50 |
| kanzure | fenn: few of the projects are "simulating biology", then | 10:50 |
| fenn | oh | 10:50 |
| kanzure | also the organization of the brain is helpful, even hawkins admits that | 10:50 |
| Trooem | can we have a common goal? | 10:50 |
| fenn | is this philosophy? | 10:50 |
| Trooem | would you interested in a research to get willam ditto's plan working? | 10:50 |
| kanzure | Trooem: i'm starting a business, do you want to hear about it? | 10:51 |
| Trooem | yes please | 10:51 |
| fenn | of course; i'm just against slavish imitation | 10:51 |
| kanzure | Trooem: fenn and i have been working on skdb, a free and open source program for downloading hardware over the web | 10:51 |
| kanzure | if you want to grow neurons in a tissue culture, you need tool | 10:52 |
| fenn | a debian of hardware designs | 10:52 |
| kanzure | *tools | 10:52 |
| kanzure | skdb tells you how to build those tools given what you have | 10:52 |
| kanzure | and if you don't have the tools, then it tells you how to make those tools- or how to buy them | 10:52 |
| Trooem | ok... i c. how will this profit you in any way? | 10:52 |
| Trooem | in terms of money. | 10:53 |
| kanzure | well, we're selling kits and technical support | 10:53 |
| kanzure | some people are lazy and don't want to build their own screws (why would you?) or their own cars | 10:53 |
| fenn | Trooem: it's hard to find something that is both worth doing and makes you money | 10:53 |
| fenn | and often when you try to mix the two it fucks up both | 10:53 |
| Trooem | fenn, may i ask your age? | 10:54 |
| kanzure | so the six or nine month plan is to get a kit out the door for the diybio community | 10:54 |
| fenn | so, the answer is "it will help you to build stuff" and stuff is usually worth money | 10:54 |
| fenn | Trooem: i'm 27 | 10:54 |
| Trooem | ok, so how much in terms of money, monthly, are you expecting from this project? | 10:54 |
| fenn | none | 10:54 |
| Trooem | fenn: got it. | 10:54 |
| Trooem | what?! | 10:54 |
| Trooem | none?! | 10:54 |
| kanzure | i've been asking for $10k to get rolling | 10:54 |
| fenn | OMGWTFBBQ | 10:54 |
| Trooem | i'm sure you have something behind this of course. | 10:55 |
| fenn | Trooem: i've seen people waste more on a barbecue than i spend in a year | 10:55 |
| Trooem | are you planning to monetize with adsense or some affiliate products? | 10:55 |
| kanzure | nope | 10:55 |
| fenn | if necessary, but i bet more interesting opportunities will arise | 10:55 |
| Trooem | hmm... is this out of pure love for your studies and the philosophy of "information grows when you give it out" type of thing? | 10:56 |
| Trooem | err... | 10:56 |
| fenn | if i hold onto it too tightly it will wither and die, yes | 10:56 |
| Trooem | hmm.. | 10:56 |
| fenn | it's hard enough just to get people to understand it in the first place | 10:56 |
| kanzure | Trooem: we could rebuild civilization | 10:56 |
| kanzure | we can make what we need and what we want | 10:56 |
| kanzure | skdb helps us do this | 10:56 |
| kanzure | in the mean time, other people are probably interested in various portions of it .. just like people buy ikea kits or shopbots for their machine shops | 10:57 |
| fenn | a shopbot is not a machine tool :P | 10:57 |
| kanzure | furniture toy? | 10:58 |
| Trooem | this is my ability and what i've learned over the years, being in online marketing. i rank for any terms (keyword phrases on the net) specifically going for longtail (lower competition) keywords (because they rank easier on top 10, first page of google) and i make a landing page out of it to (build a email-database list) opt-in list. and i monetize it with various affiliate programs, | 10:58 |
| Trooem | and send the traffic- to wherever i need | 10:58 |
| Trooem | CPA networks (they pay about 10 to 20 dollars per customer lead) | 10:58 |
| fenn | how's that working out for you? | 10:59 |
| fenn | i'm serious | 10:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/meetlogparser.py i'm doing something wrong i think | 10:59 |
| kanzure | it wokrs but it sucks | 10:59 |
| Trooem | adsense (orphan pages blast toward the email listing) | 10:59 |
| Trooem | and information products from clickbank | 10:59 |
| fenn | btw kanzure you know you can do unordered sets in yaml with ? mark | 10:59 |
| Trooem | i've yet to test out the mechanics of cloaking, and linking structures and etc etc.... | 10:59 |
| kanzure | example? | 10:59 |
| Trooem | err but it's been doing well and i can collect the listing... | 10:59 |
| fenn | foo: | 11:00 |
| fenn | ? bar | 11:00 |
| Trooem | at any given point--- | 11:00 |
| fenn | ? baz | 11:00 |
| kanzure | okay | 11:00 |
| Trooem | sorry i didn't read your post up there now reading | 11:00 |
| Trooem | rebuild civilization | 11:00 |
| Trooem | yup | 11:00 |
| Trooem | ok | 11:00 |
| Trooem | hmm.. | 11:00 |
| Trooem | damn | 11:00 |
| Trooem | ambitious | 11:00 |
| Trooem | but errm... i'd rather go for money and research into my own projects | 11:01 |
| fenn | it's the magic behind the 'print anything machine' that everyone is always rambling about | 11:01 |
| Trooem | funding. | 11:01 |
| kanzure | what good is money if you can't do anything? | 11:01 |
| Trooem | what would you do, if you can make 100,000 per day? (or 10k per day) | 11:01 |
| fenn | yeah, how am i going to afford to build a space colony with earth money? | 11:01 |
| Trooem | but without money, how far do you think you can go with your research? | 11:02 |
| fenn | i don't know | 11:02 |
| kanzure | Trooem: if i don't have any money, worst case scenario, i can just suck it up and do stuff | 11:02 |
| kanzure | Trooem: with $100k i would build a fabratory | 11:02 |
| kanzure | a fablab/fabratory is basically a machine shop crossed with debian | 11:02 |
| kanzure | "make anything" etc. | 11:02 |
| Trooem | how do you guys plan on advertising and bringing traffic into your project? press release and magazines? | 11:03 |
| kanzure | word of mouth | 11:03 |
| kanzure | it's very effective so far | 11:03 |
| Trooem | i guess it's not search engine traffic since it's philanthropic almost. people would actually print it for free. | 11:03 |
| kanzure | yes | 11:03 |
| Trooem | hmm.... | 11:03 |
| kanzure | there are two parts to this | 11:03 |
| kanzure | skdb is the backend free software part, free hardware, etc. | 11:04 |
| Trooem | fablab=rapid prototyping? 3d printers CAD and all that? | 11:04 |
| kanzure | the business- which i don't have a name for yet- sells the kits and the support | 11:04 |
| kanzure | Trooem: well the problem is that "3d printers" only do plastic. to do manufacturing you need to encompass a broader range. | 11:04 |
| kanzure | metals, ceramics, plastics, etc | 11:04 |
| Trooem | you contact casting companies with the plastic prototype and they make it into the material you want... | 11:05 |
| fenn | meetlogparser.py looks fine to me | 11:05 |
| Trooem | just send them the CAD.. | 11:05 |
| Trooem | hmm... | 11:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: it just looks bad i guess | 11:05 |
| kanzure | i feel unpythonic writing it like that | 11:05 |
| kanzure | Trooem: do you know about free software? | 11:05 |
| kanzure | free as in libre/freedom, not "free beer" | 11:06 |
| fenn | there is probably some zip(map(lambda:)) magic you could be doing instead.. but why | 11:06 |
| Trooem | not sure... with your brain powers, i would rather get into online marketing, go for about 10k to 100k per month, (which i'm 100% sure you will be able to, given enough fundamentals and tips) and go for bigger projects. | 11:06 |
| Trooem | go for nobel prize or something. | 11:06 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm sure lots of people have lots of money to throw at me to do stuff | 11:06 |
| fenn | Trooem: how much do you earn from online marketing? | 11:06 |
| fenn | numbers please | 11:07 |
| Trooem | i'm only making about 10 to 20k ( in between) but it's quantitative. | 11:07 |
| fenn | per what | 11:07 |
| Trooem | i'm about to incorporate serious macro into the project and get indian outsourcing, | 11:07 |
| Trooem | so that will increase 10x at least. i'm positive. | 11:07 |
| Trooem | per monthly. | 11:07 |
| fenn | how long have you been doing this? and how many hours a day do you spend? | 11:08 |
| Trooem | i studied for 4 years. i used to spend 8 hours a day ritually, but since now i've got a partner, he does the management for me, given the fact that i have to give him the directions, and new scope, next strategy, | 11:08 |
| Trooem | which takes time. | 11:09 |
| Trooem | marketing isn't rocket science like you guys do. | 11:09 |
| fenn | no.. i just have an aversion to it | 11:09 |
| kanzure | i don't understand, who is writing you checks? | 11:09 |
| Trooem | it's about getting that piece of info, which most 'gurus' on the net keep hush hush about. once you know that formula(which unfortunately can be taught in just a week or two) it's smooth sailing from there. | 11:09 |
| Trooem | bunch of affiliate companies, various. | 11:10 |
| Trooem | clickbank, | 11:10 |
| Trooem | commission junction | 11:10 |
| Trooem | hydra network | 11:10 |
| Trooem | neverblue | 11:10 |
| Trooem | adsense. | 11:10 |
| Trooem | you name it. | 11:10 |
| Trooem | or private affiliate companies | 11:10 |
| fenn | from what examples i've seen or been stupid enough to buy, it doesn't matter if it's a real secret or not (many people sell info you can get for free with 5 minutes of google searching) | 11:10 |
| Trooem | or (sorry to say) porn. if you want. | 11:10 |
| Trooem | leads. | 11:10 |
| Trooem | yup! | 11:10 |
| Trooem | that's why you goto seminars and make networks with individuals and never ever buy those fucked up information products. | 11:11 |
| Trooem | real 'secrets' come from word of mouth, and the insight-knowledge | 11:11 |
| fenn | i don't see the connection | 11:11 |
| Trooem | often times, they do come in form of subscription to private forums | 11:11 |
| Trooem | see the connection between what? | 11:11 |
| fenn | why does it have to be a secret in the first place? | 11:11 |
| fenn | as soon as you sell the info it is no longer a secret | 11:12 |
| Trooem | because for 1, what they mainly do is: 'blackhat' | 11:12 |
| Trooem | the term is frequently used for practices of internet marketing which is quasi-legal in nature | 11:12 |
| fenn | you sell zero day exploits? | 11:12 |
| fenn | oh | 11:12 |
| Trooem | the most information so called gurus sell is 'white hat' and don't work, or you need serious, serious capital to even start making money. | 11:12 |
| Trooem | but the real fact is that- | 11:13 |
| kanzure | wtf is clickbank? you log in and then go write on your blog that you logged in? | 11:13 |
| Trooem | those people who actually succeed, | 11:13 |
| fenn | probably a pyramid scheme | 11:13 |
| fenn | affiliate program = pyramid scheme, more or less | 11:13 |
| Trooem | they begin making their money from quasi-legal spamming. (but not complete, email spamming, which will get you in trouble) but rather in the realm of messing with search engine algorithms. | 11:13 |
| Trooem | sigh... | 11:14 |
| fenn | except somehow it actually makes money at the bottom instead of just screwing the people at the bottom | 11:14 |
| Trooem | no no. | 11:14 |
| Trooem | clickbank is a company which distributes information products based on a niche, | 11:14 |
| Trooem | they have thousands of information products, | 11:14 |
| kanzure | i'm listening | 11:14 |
| Trooem | and you sign up to promote this info product, and they give you a affiliate link | 11:14 |
| Trooem | an affiliate link is: | 11:14 |
| Trooem | www.infoproduct.com/yourpersonalID | 11:15 |
| Trooem | once peope click on that, | 11:15 |
| Trooem | an 'cookie' goes into their browser | 11:15 |
| Trooem | this cookie is a script | 11:15 |
| Trooem | which goes into their browser and when they make a purchase, | 11:15 |
| Trooem | you get 50% from the amount they pay, | 11:15 |
| Trooem | and this amoutn is immediately shown on your stats, | 11:15 |
| Trooem | and you are sent a notification you just made a sale | 11:16 |
| Trooem | etc etc... | 11:16 |
| Trooem | the same principle works with, | 11:16 |
| Trooem | cpa networks (cost per acquisition networks) | 11:16 |
| Trooem | in which they pay you for, | 11:16 |
| Trooem | information of people. | 11:16 |
| Trooem | their phone numbers, | 11:16 |
| Trooem | address, | 11:16 |
| Trooem | their interests, | 11:16 |
| Trooem | which people willingly sign up for, | 11:16 |
| Trooem | in exchange for a incentive | 11:16 |
| fenn | so, what are you going to do with all this money? | 11:17 |
| Trooem | such as a information on whatever they were looking for in the first place | 11:17 |
| Trooem | fenn: well, i'm here. | 11:17 |
| fenn | so am i | 11:17 |
| Trooem | and i want to learn academics. | 11:17 |
| Trooem | what i'm planning to do | 11:17 |
| kanzure | do you know what a patron is? | 11:17 |
| Trooem | is the first thing, | 11:17 |
| Trooem | i'm going to make a cheating device- | 11:17 |
| Trooem | err... outsourced | 11:17 |
| Trooem | and cheat into a school. | 11:18 |
| Trooem | next, i gotta learn learn. | 11:18 |
| Trooem | and so on | 11:18 |
| Trooem | my business will expand. | 11:18 |
| Trooem | what is a patron? | 11:18 |
| Trooem | please don't be pessimistic if you are planning to be, i'm not trying to sell you guys anything. just sharing information. | 11:18 |
| Trooem | english, is my second language by the way. | 11:19 |
| Trooem | so i could be a little off-tune and the words i use may be elementary. or something like that. | 11:19 |
| kanzure | a patron is a person who funds another person who "does really neat stuff that will probably end up making a few billion dollars in the future" | 11:19 |
| fenn | i am pessimist/skeptic by nature, but people trying to sell me information especially raises alarms | 11:19 |
| Trooem | oh why didnt you just say investor. | 11:19 |
| kanzure | i don't speak money too well | 11:20 |
| fenn | investors expect monetary return on investment | 11:20 |
| fenn | patrons reap 'psychic rewards' or some such | 11:20 |
| Trooem | fenn: don't worry, i'm not going to ask you to buy anything. whatever i'm giving you here is just facts, and information for your pleasure. | 11:20 |
| fenn | think michaelangelo | 11:20 |
| fenn | what is the value of the sistine chapel? | 11:20 |
| fenn | it's just some paintings | 11:20 |
| kanzure | what is the value of debian? it's just some code.. | 11:20 |
| Trooem | i'm thinking, you guys should learn to earn this money by yourselves. i could teach you from beginning to end. | 11:21 |
| Trooem | for 50/50? i don't know | 11:21 |
| Trooem | i don't know how it would work. | 11:21 |
| fenn | heh | 11:21 |
| fenn | Trooem where are you from? | 11:21 |
| Trooem | this is south korea | 11:22 |
| Trooem | but i'm a canadian citizen | 11:22 |
| Trooem | so........ | 11:22 |
| Trooem | but i speak korean natively. | 11:22 |
| Trooem | and i'm guessing both of you are white. | 11:22 |
| fenn | ok | 11:22 |
| kanzure | i have some contacts in korea that i do not understand, maybe sometime you can check them out for me | 11:22 |
| Trooem | haha :) | 11:22 |
| Trooem | sure np | 11:22 |
| fenn | yes, i am of european/russian descent and grew up in indiana | 11:23 |
| Trooem | ok | 11:23 |
| kanzure | i am of internet descent and grew up in texas | 11:23 |
| fenn | i am of the hacker/scientist ethnic group | 11:23 |
| fenn | however i do not have a beard or wear flannel | 11:23 |
| kanzure | (he's a bad hacker) | 11:23 |
| fenn | :( | 11:23 |
| kanzure | no cookie for you | 11:23 |
| fenn | your cookies were awful anyway | 11:24 |
| Trooem | i'm just a ignorant high school graduate, who decided to study online marketing since 2005. err, and succeed just a couple months ago. now thinking of using money to get my life back academically, among other things i've lost for the sake of online marketing. | 11:24 |
| kanzure | i wish it had a warning on it: "terrible cookies inside" | 11:24 |
| fenn | Trooem: have you heard of appropedia? | 11:24 |
| Trooem | fenn: no | 11:24 |
| fenn | http://www.appropedia.org/ it's a bunch of technology "how to" articles for third world stuff, mostly | 11:25 |
| Trooem | what is it... | 11:25 |
| Trooem | ok | 11:25 |
| fenn | the interesting thing is you can do a lot of good with a tiny amount of money, but people just don't bother to for some reason | 11:25 |
| fenn | that's why i asked where you are from.. to understand your perception of the world | 11:26 |
| Trooem | this stuff is way over my head | 11:26 |
| fenn | well at some point you will have so much money that you don't know what to do with it | 11:26 |
| Trooem | i just believe in science and power of using people smarter than myself in a sense to accomplish something, and give something as a trade-off such as money. | 11:26 |
| Trooem | yeah, that is plausibly the case, i have a indian partner, and we are splitting 50/50. both of us, we plan on going for 100k per DAY | 11:27 |
| Trooem | and i think it's a good possibility | 11:27 |
| fenn | i just believe in using technology to accomplish something | 11:27 |
| fenn | but i'm trapped in this awful place where people will shoot me if i don't give them some absurd amount of money every month | 11:28 |
| Trooem | are you in debt? | 11:28 |
| fenn | (that was slightly exaggerating0 | 11:28 |
| Trooem | ok... | 11:28 |
| fenn | i've never actually stuck around long enough without paying rent to see what would happen | 11:28 |
| fenn | but supposedly the sherriff comes out to evict you eventually | 11:29 |
| fenn | 100k per day is not realistic | 11:29 |
| Trooem | ok that sounds serious | 11:29 |
| Trooem | maybe not now, but 10k per month was not realistic when i started. | 11:30 |
| Trooem | but it is. | 11:30 |
| Trooem | with outsourcing ecommerce products from china, making my information products in such a way that is just quantitative, | 11:30 |
| Trooem | collecting list, and managing all that, | 11:30 |
| fenn | there are scaling limits.. people only have so much disposable income and the market gets saturated etc. | 11:30 |
| Trooem | pharmaceuticals, etc etc. i'm pretty sure. | 11:30 |
| fenn | maybe i am just a pessimist | 11:30 |
| kanzure | out of the people that click your links how many buy something? | 11:30 |
| kanzure | 1%? | 11:31 |
| Trooem | no less. | 11:31 |
| Trooem | 0.15 is the right percentage | 11:31 |
| Trooem | i think | 11:31 |
| Trooem | 400 to 250 to 1 sale | 11:31 |
| fenn | you focus on information only? or do you link to physical products too? | 11:31 |
| kanzure | what is the sample size? i.e. how many people is 100%? | 11:31 |
| Trooem | for 140 dollar product | 11:31 |
| Trooem | what is the figure on that | 11:31 |
| Trooem | right now, i'm focusing on information, but i've been dabbling on electronic products as an affiliate | 11:32 |
| Trooem | but monetization is not importantn | 11:32 |
| Trooem | if people are remotely interested, and the salespage is ok, | 11:32 |
| Trooem | people buy if you send LOTS of visitors related to the topic | 11:32 |
| Trooem | whats important is: | 11:32 |
| Trooem | how do you get this targeted traffic? | 11:32 |
| Trooem | and that's the thing. | 11:33 |
| fenn | is that a secret? | 11:33 |
| Trooem | i've figured it out. | 11:33 |
| Trooem | yup. | 11:33 |
| fenn | ok :) | 11:33 |
| kanzure | so 400 to 1 sale? at 0.15%? so you have to get 26 million unique visitors? | 11:33 |
| Trooem | haha once you know it, it's like...hmm.. | 11:33 |
| kanzure | sorry i find that hard to believe | 11:33 |
| Trooem | 26 million uniques?! | 11:33 |
| Trooem | what are you talking about? | 11:33 |
| Trooem | i didn't say i make 100k per day right now! | 11:34 |
| kanzure | 1 sale per 400 people is about 0.25% click-thru | 11:34 |
| Trooem | ok | 11:34 |
| Trooem | what of it? | 11:34 |
| kanzure | so you have about 166 buys per day? | 11:35 |
| Trooem | of a 140 dollar product ? | 11:35 |
| Trooem | no way | 11:35 |
| Trooem | 20 dollar products from clickbank, and few of 140 dollar ones. | 11:35 |
| Trooem | there's a list of database i have from aweber.com | 11:35 |
| Trooem | opt-in. | 11:35 |
| Trooem | and it send an autoresponder. | 11:35 |
| Trooem | with the affiliate link. | 11:36 |
| Trooem | people purchase. | 11:36 |
| kanzure | 500 buys per day of $20? | 11:36 |
| Trooem | once i blast them the message. but then i have to gather new ones. | 11:36 |
| Trooem | i make about 300 to 1k per day, depending on the days | 11:37 |
| fenn | 500 buys / 0.15percent = 333,000 visitors | 11:37 |
| kanzure | yeah.. | 11:37 |
| fenn | that's per month | 11:37 |
| kanzure | no per day | 11:37 |
| kanzure | he said $10k per day | 11:37 |
| fenn | how many hits does heybryan get? | 11:37 |
| Trooem | no no | 11:37 |
| kanzure | about 300k per mo | 11:37 |
| Trooem | i'm aiming for 10k per day! | 11:37 |
| fenn | oh, whatever, i'm fine with $10k/mo :) | 11:37 |
| Trooem | i'm making between 10k to 20k per month, and that's just beginning. | 11:38 |
| fenn | kanzure: how many hits are human? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: dunno | 11:38 |
| Trooem | oi... | 11:38 |
| kanzure | Trooem: so you send a link out to 333k people per mo? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | just wondering | 11:38 |
| Trooem | i don't understand what you mean by link out but | 11:38 |
| kanzure | your link | 11:38 |
| kanzure | you send a link to 333k people/mo ? | 11:38 |
| fenn | we are going on the assuption that you spam email or forums or something | 11:39 |
| Trooem | if you mean could i get 333k traffic per month from various niches, a resounding YES> | 11:39 |
| Trooem | no no | 11:39 |
| Trooem | i do not spam emails. | 11:39 |
| Trooem | that is illegal | 11:39 |
| Trooem | what i do is permission based marketing | 11:39 |
| Trooem | in which i make a landing page, | 11:39 |
| kanzure | sorry i just don't understand | 11:39 |
| Trooem | with a video, | 11:39 |
| kanzure | you said you get about 0.15% | 11:39 |
| kanzure | who actually buy | 11:39 |
| kanzure | so if you're making $10k/mo | 11:39 |
| kanzure | then you need 333k people to see your link | 11:39 |
| kanzure | (on a $20 product) | 11:40 |
| Trooem | ? i opt them into a email database | 11:40 |
| fenn | aha | 11:40 |
| kanzure | you opt in 333,000 people? | 11:40 |
| fenn | the truth comes out at last | 11:40 |
| Trooem | why is that so hard to believe? | 11:40 |
| kanzure | because there's only 6.5 billion people in the world | 11:40 |
| Trooem | 333k people? hmm... | 11:41 |
| kanzure | i guess that's 19,000 times that you could do this | 11:41 |
| kanzure | the numbers just aren't making sense, sorry | 11:41 |
| Trooem | i am very confused myself. | 11:41 |
| fenn | the numbers make sense, but i can't believe 333k/mo would sign up for marketing emails | 11:41 |
| Trooem | you want to see how it works?! | 11:42 |
| Trooem | ok wait. | 11:42 |
| Trooem | how do i do this without revealing what i do. | 11:43 |
| fenn | heh | 11:43 |
| Trooem | ok you have this landing page. like you saw in warcraft niche | 11:43 |
| Trooem | you got a video, you got a model from livefaceonweb.com | 11:43 |
| Trooem | you got a good headline. | 11:43 |
| Trooem | then you have a opt-in | 11:43 |
| Trooem | suggesting if you opt-in, | 11:43 |
| Trooem | you get a guide or a incentive on what you were looking for. | 11:43 |
| Trooem | people look at that and they sign up. | 11:44 |
| Trooem | but if you're asking, | 11:44 |
| Trooem | HOW DO YOU GET THAT MANY PEOPLE | 11:44 |
| Trooem | i use google, bing, yahoo and the lesser search engines | 11:44 |
| Trooem | to rank for the keyword terms provided by wordtracker.com | 11:44 |
| Trooem | which shows the data of every keyword, | 11:44 |
| Trooem | what the search volume is for that keyword, | 11:45 |
| Trooem | the competition i havve to win out | 11:45 |
| Trooem | in order to rank for top 10 listingl | 11:45 |
| Trooem | now, | 11:45 |
| Trooem | the search term, | 11:45 |
| Trooem | the search volume. | 11:45 |
| Trooem | sec. | 11:45 |
| fenn | this is all vaguely familiar from 4 hour workweek | 11:45 |
| Trooem | https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal | 11:46 |
| Trooem | type in any keywords in there | 11:46 |
| Trooem | and they show you the search volume per day. the competition, etc etc. | 11:46 |
| Trooem | i make about 400 to 600 pages per day. | 11:46 |
| Trooem | i've been making it for quite a while. | 11:47 |
| Trooem | that's 400 to 600 keywords per day. | 11:47 |
| Trooem | do the math. | 11:47 |
| fenn | could you explain what you just said? | 11:47 |
| Trooem | 10k per month isn't much in this business. | 11:47 |
| fenn | 400 pages a day means what exactly? | 11:47 |
| Trooem | 400 landing pages a day | 11:47 |
| fenn | different keyword <meta> tags? | 11:47 |
| Trooem | 1 keyword = 1 page. | 11:47 |
| Trooem | on top 10 search engine. | 11:48 |
| Trooem | i mean ranks. | 11:48 |
| Trooem | no meta tags. | 11:48 |
| Trooem | 1 keyword = 1 page. | 11:48 |
| Trooem | each keyword brings in the search volume, mostly lesser than expected or shown on google's tools, or wordtracker, | 11:48 |
| Trooem | but it brings in what i need. | 11:48 |
| Trooem | people sign up, | 11:48 |
| Trooem | i don't exactly know what the conversion rate for opt-in is. | 11:48 |
| Trooem | but i know the sales conversion, and that is what i said. | 11:49 |
| Trooem | i people NEVER buy the product, which it often happens, | 11:49 |
| Trooem | i send them a adsense page. | 11:49 |
| Trooem | in which they pretty much HAVE to click on, | 11:49 |
| Trooem | and it's legal. | 11:49 |
| Trooem | with about 50,000 database, i get about 300 to 500 dollars. from 10 cents per click or less. | 11:50 |
| Trooem | it's NOT THAT HARD. | 11:50 |
| Trooem | sigh......... | 11:50 |
| Trooem | the pessimissm. the skepticism. | 11:50 |
| kanzure | no just learning | 11:50 |
| Trooem | but then if i taught you from beginning to end, | 11:51 |
| Trooem | how easy for you guys to probably bash out 100k per month in like few months? | 11:51 |
| Trooem | yeah you guys are smart, but too smart for your own good maybe | 11:51 |
| Trooem | brb | 11:51 |
| fenn | i am just lazy | 11:51 |
| Trooem | if you have more questions i am happy to answer, but please don't make it in the form of a accusation. it's very heart wrenching(?) i don't know the proper term | 11:55 |
| fenn | thanks for answering my questions | 11:56 |
| fenn | a lot of people just flake out when i ask hard stuff like "what do you actually sell?" | 11:56 |
| Trooem | and i'm sure there is a way to make a deal of sort, without resulting you guys to pessimism or skepticism or nontrust or whatever. | 11:56 |
| kanzure | i'm sure we can be mutually helpful | 11:56 |
| Trooem | if it's the trust issue, i'm willing to just give out the information from my side first, until you see results. | 11:57 |
| Trooem | but then afterwards is the problem, | 11:57 |
| Trooem | what if you just ditch me? | 11:57 |
| Trooem | i just wasted 2 months. | 11:57 |
| Trooem | and so on. | 11:57 |
| kanzure | you're welcome to hang out here | 11:57 |
| kanzure | we've been doing this for years | 11:57 |
| Trooem | but i am willing. | 11:57 |
| fenn | well according to you i just need to get some ridiculous amount of unique visitors | 11:57 |
| kanzure | most people idle in here until something interesting comes about | 11:58 |
| Trooem | targeted visitors. | 11:58 |
| fenn | i can think of lots of ways to get visitors | 11:58 |
| fenn | 'targeted' is almost meaningless when you can sell anything you want | 11:58 |
| Trooem | people searching for acai berries wants a products on acai berries. etc. | 11:58 |
| Trooem | viagra applies to all search terms, but then the moment you do that, | 11:58 |
| Trooem | it becomes spam. | 11:58 |
| Trooem | you have to give people what they need, and what they ask for. | 11:59 |
| Trooem | this is legal. and thus it's called permission based marketing... | 11:59 |
| fenn | kanzure: remember when i was talking about psychosis inducing drugs? well this would be a perfect application | 12:00 |
| fenn | i just need to make an "evil fenn" split personality that will do all my web-based marketing drudgery | 12:00 |
| fenn | so trooem you buy 400 adsense words per day? | 12:02 |
| Trooem | my partner does the adsense, but no, we mostly use the same keyword list. adsense appears automatically depending on the content you have on the page. | 12:07 |
| Trooem | you.... should try adsense... | 12:08 |
| Trooem | everything we do is almost auto once setup. minus the people who do the data entry which i hire from elance.com or rentacoder.com | 12:09 |
| Trooem | keyword research is very simply done. | 12:10 |
| Trooem | i'm wondering if that was enough of information to get you guys making money in this game already LOL. | 12:13 |
| Trooem | i fear you two are too smart and absorb everything i have and go beyond in few days. ROFL. | 12:14 |
| fenn | i already had enough info to get started before you showed up.. but it's hard to believe in the entire concept | 12:14 |
| fenn | i mean, i don't know anyone who actually makes a living on this style of commerce | 12:15 |
| Trooem | it's harder than you'd think. but yes it's all true. | 12:15 |
| Trooem | you can always enter a internet marketing seminar. texas often has marketing seminars, you build networks from there | 12:15 |
| Trooem | hear stories, successes. | 12:15 |
| Trooem | 17 years olds making 100k per month... | 12:16 |
| Trooem | then you get jealous. | 12:16 |
| fenn | it's seductive to someone with my hikkikomori lifestyle, so i want to believe in it, but that makes my rational part overcorrect.. | 12:16 |
| Trooem | because you're overeducated and believe firmly in just over broke jobs. | 12:16 |
| Trooem | get paid for your hourly wages. | 12:16 |
| fenn | something like that | 12:16 |
| fenn | i'm actually a hippie idealist | 12:17 |
| fenn | nobody should have to work | 12:17 |
| Trooem | haha infotech, I.T industry, whether your in bio or online marketing, it's heavily dependent on tools and information. bringing traffic isn't that hard if your smart. i wasn't. took me 4 years to master the concepts and the laws. and finally started making money. | 12:18 |
| Trooem | yeah...... | 12:18 |
| Trooem | nobody should be working, just studying and experimenting. | 12:18 |
| Trooem | then we'd achieve physical immortality no problem | 12:19 |
| Trooem | in like ....... | 12:19 |
| Trooem | 10 years. | 12:19 |
| Trooem | haha | 12:19 |
| fenn | heh 'hikkikomori' links to 'Delayed sleep phase syndrome' | 12:19 |
| Trooem | so you guys are doing something very noble. | 12:19 |
| Trooem | insomnia? | 12:19 |
| fenn | i'm pissed that there is still no moon base | 12:20 |
| Trooem | ok..... | 12:20 |
| fenn | i guess you could call it insomnia.. http://fennetic.net/sleep/ the blue parts are sleep, one day per line | 12:20 |
| Trooem | yup they launched a rocket to the moon yesterday was it? to check out if there is ice or something.. | 12:20 |
| Trooem | is that somekind of gene analysis data or something lol | 12:21 |
| Trooem | looks complicated | 12:21 |
| fenn | life log | 12:21 |
| Trooem | ok | 12:21 |
| fenn | i write down everything i do, to the minute | 12:21 |
| Trooem | what is your ultimate goal, | 12:22 |
| Trooem | in science- | 12:22 |
| Trooem | mine is.... | 12:22 |
| fenn | um.. that's sort of a broad question | 12:22 |
| fenn | i don't pretend to know the answer | 12:22 |
| Trooem | longevity, life extention or A.I of sort.... | 12:22 |
| fenn | that's just the beginning | 12:22 |
| Trooem | you gotta have a goal haha | 12:22 |
| fenn | what do you do for the rest of eternity once you're immortal and superintelligent etc | 12:22 |
| Trooem | i can only think of that once i get that longevity... | 12:23 |
| Trooem | they got that iPS stem cell thing now so who knows, it'll speed up regenerative meds | 12:23 |
| Trooem | if i can make 100k a day, supposing, | 12:24 |
| fenn | yeah that is amazing | 12:24 |
| Trooem | what could a person do with it? | 12:24 |
| Trooem | i feel my brain is empty. rofl | 12:24 |
| fenn | fund an army of researchers | 12:24 |
| Trooem | and i don't want to become another donald trump | 12:24 |
| Trooem | and invest in real estate and make more money that's just... | 12:24 |
| Trooem | yeah... | 12:25 |
| Trooem | that's the plan, but i gotta know some stuff. lol.. | 12:25 |
| fenn | recruit chinese high school students from internet death camps to do amazing things | 12:25 |
| fenn | i need to learn chinese | 12:25 |
| Trooem | chinese... for all their population they're not getting the nobel prizes | 12:25 |
| Trooem | and... that's because they can't afford | 12:26 |
| Trooem | the research | 12:26 |
| Trooem | haha | 12:26 |
| fenn | why not? because they work on assembly lines all day plucking chicken feathers | 12:26 |
| Trooem | chinese? i guess thats goood | 12:26 |
| fenn | that's robot work.. wtf | 12:26 |
| fenn | i say chinese because they are just as intelligent as any other people, but i can hire a zillion of them | 12:26 |
| Trooem | yeah... but the educated you need to pay more haha | 12:27 |
| Trooem | otherwise you gotta train them | 12:27 |
| fenn | and they all speak chinese, unlike, say, africa, or malaysia | 12:27 |
| Trooem | i'd want a A.I to do my bidding | 12:27 |
| Trooem | how about indians? they speak english and cheap :) | 12:28 |
| fenn | yes india is good too | 12:28 |
| Trooem | not that trust-worthy though.. | 12:28 |
| Trooem | culturally very very smart people, but they have their devious sides. | 12:28 |
| fenn | don't we all | 12:28 |
| Trooem | but then again, koreans are worst of them all so. lol.. | 12:28 |
| fenn | heh | 12:28 |
| Trooem | yeah... | 12:28 |
| Trooem | fastest connection in the world in terms of high speed internet. but no SINGLE skill in information technology. lol | 12:29 |
| Trooem | all they do is play outdated starcraft and they've got a tv channel for it. | 12:29 |
| Trooem | sigh......... | 12:29 |
| fenn | i'm trying to do starcraft for realz | 12:29 |
| fenn | that's what skdb is sorta | 12:29 |
| Trooem | how is it related? | 12:30 |
| fenn | well in starcraft you have to build a refinery before you can build a tank factory | 12:30 |
| Trooem | haha the management of troops | 12:30 |
| Trooem | yup haha | 12:30 |
| fenn | and once you click 'build' the robots assemble the refinery and then you just wait around | 12:30 |
| fenn | so it's a high level approach to manufacturing, really | 12:30 |
| Trooem | that's almost literal- | 12:31 |
| Trooem | to your project | 12:31 |
| Trooem | the analogy | 12:31 |
| fenn | the same kind of constraints apply in real life too, it's just nobody has bothered to write them down yet for some reason | 12:31 |
| fenn | yeah i should use the starcraft analogy more often | 12:31 |
| fenn | thanks | 12:31 |
| Trooem | cause when you mention the word video game it automatically becomes childish, but it's a good visual analogy for today's generation like us... | 12:31 |
| Trooem | i was thinking warhammer (much like starcraft) with -----nanorobotics in nanomedicine | 12:32 |
| Trooem | lol | 12:32 |
| Trooem | one troop for repair of cells | 12:32 |
| Trooem | the other types for white blood cell enhancement, | 12:32 |
| Trooem | the other for getting rid of the waste deposits in the cells | 12:33 |
| Trooem | etc etc | 12:33 |
| Trooem | oi......... | 12:33 |
| fenn | i think kanzure linked to this beforre http://www.gamespot.com/pages/tags/index.php?tags=starcraft%20tech%20tree | 12:33 |
| Trooem | so you graduated from uni already? | 12:33 |
| * fenn comforts his dying laptop | 12:33 | |
| fenn | yes i studied molecular biology | 12:34 |
| Trooem | wow | 12:34 |
| fenn | they didn't teach anything in school. like i said, it's bullshit | 12:34 |
| Trooem | oh | 12:34 |
| Trooem | must be the 'field experience' that tested your mettle | 12:35 |
| Trooem | no idea im using that correctly my english is weird | 12:35 |
| fenn | also i sort of expected genetic engineering to be like 20 years further along than it was | 12:35 |
| Trooem | lol | 12:35 |
| Trooem | i see | 12:36 |
| Trooem | guess we got long ways ahead of us | 12:36 |
| fenn | i never did anything real with bio, got fed up with science during my undergrad research | 12:36 |
| Trooem | did you get the degree? | 12:36 |
| Trooem | you can probably follow syn bio now, since you learned upto the point of molecular bio | 12:36 |
| fenn | can't get funding unless you're a professor, can't do anything interesting if you're a professor because you're an old fart, have to be an old fart to be a professor, once you're a professor you have underlings do meaningless bullshit instead of real research.. blah blah blah | 12:37 |
| Trooem | follow craig venter if you like hahah | 12:37 |
| fenn | syn bio is actually pretty pathetic | 12:37 |
| fenn | they don't have enough empirical engineering work | 12:37 |
| fenn | i'm sure jonathan cline can rant all day about this if you want | 12:38 |
| Trooem | i guess so. everything in biology except maybe agricultural biotechnology is not practical and all.... | 12:38 |
| Trooem | so you think they're not close to making that artificial lifeform? | 12:38 |
| fenn | all that monsanto stuff is just penicillin all over again | 12:38 |
| Trooem | oh | 12:38 |
| fenn | if you define artificial lifeform as copy + paste, then yes, it's right around the corner | 12:39 |
| Trooem | oh | 12:39 |
| fenn | life is so poorly defined though | 12:39 |
| Trooem | but not upto the point of producing oil from plants? | 12:39 |
| Trooem | haha | 12:39 |
| Trooem | i see | 12:39 |
| fenn | i define life as cells that use the same amino acid coding scheme | 12:39 |
| fenn | producing oil from plants already works.. what are you talking about | 12:40 |
| Trooem | oh | 12:40 |
| fenn | what do you think canola oil is :) | 12:40 |
| Trooem | im ignorant nevermind | 12:40 |
| Trooem | motor oil lol | 12:40 |
| fenn | plants are poor PV panels, their only advantage is cheapness | 12:40 |
| Trooem | i'm trying to figure out what the best route to longevity is... follow aubrey de gray or leave it upto them and go straight for wetware stuff... haha | 12:41 |
| fenn | wetware meaning what? | 12:41 |
| Trooem | wetware meaning... synthesized intelligence through computer interface? | 12:41 |
| Trooem | from neurons | 12:41 |
| Trooem | neurons to computer connection | 12:42 |
| fenn | so "gradual upload" | 12:42 |
| fenn | nanobots swimming around in your brain, right? | 12:42 |
| fenn | a chip won't cut it | 12:42 |
| Trooem | or just a 'being' to do your work for you. lol | 12:42 |
| fenn | but that's not "really you" | 12:43 |
| Trooem | no i don't me in there i mean- | 12:43 |
| Trooem | i want separate neurons, | 12:43 |
| fenn | a neural prosthesis.. i get it | 12:43 |
| fenn | but you were talking about longevity | 12:43 |
| Trooem | to be communicating as a artificial intelligence | 12:43 |
| Trooem | haha yeah | 12:43 |
| Trooem | yeah i was thinking | 12:43 |
| Trooem | superior intelligence with serious amount of neurons = solutions to longevity? | 12:44 |
| Trooem | LOL | 12:44 |
| Trooem | the bio A.I doing the work for you | 12:44 |
| Trooem | instead | 12:44 |
| fenn | kanzure likes to call this "brain pods" | 12:44 |
| Trooem | aubrey de gray and his poor team | 12:44 |
| fenn | i'm not convinced that more neurons = more intelligence | 12:45 |
| kanzure | i dunno what intelligence is | 12:45 |
| fenn | oh shush | 12:45 |
| Trooem | ha | 12:45 |
| Trooem | the same quote | 12:45 |
| Trooem | who knows | 12:45 |
| fenn | s/intelligence/ability to find techniques for increasing longevity/ | 12:45 |
| ybit | Trooem: who are you? are you using tor? | 12:46 |
| kanzure | s/intelligence/longevity/ | 12:46 |
| Trooem | ybit who are you? no im not using tor. | 12:46 |
| ybit | your ip is korean | 12:46 |
| ybit | i'm heath matlock | 12:46 |
| Trooem | are you guys organizing my ID into a folder in your website? | 12:46 |
| Trooem | i am korean in south korea, im not using tor. | 12:46 |
| Trooem | well canadian. | 12:47 |
| Trooem | speaking korean | 12:47 |
| kanzure | an ID on a folder? what? communication error | 12:47 |
| Trooem | whatever | 12:47 |
| fenn | make up your mind :P | 12:47 |
| Trooem | what the sorry | 12:47 |
| Trooem | i mean idea | 12:47 |
| Trooem | ID=idea | 12:47 |
| Trooem | lol | 12:47 |
| Trooem | ybit confused me | 12:47 |
| fenn | i think ID was correct | 12:47 |
| fenn | you can submit a freedom of information request to one of our regional offices | 12:48 |
| kanzure | we have offices in san francisco, austin, chicago and boston | 12:48 |
| kanzure | one of our local hplusroadmap representatives will be with you shortly | 12:48 |
| kanzure | please remain seated | 12:48 |
| Trooem | what how did you guys afford all that? | 12:48 |
| Trooem | ........your joking. | 12:49 |
| kanzure | :) but we do have people in here from all around the world | 12:49 |
| ybit | damn, nobody ever mentions my office in the third world country which katsmeow-afk and myself live in | 12:49 |
| Trooem | the beauty of internet :) | 12:49 |
| Trooem | you can pull up a tent in mountains of korea and call it a office. people would come. | 12:50 |
| fenn | ybit: if we say "florence" they will think Italy | 12:50 |
| ybit | Trooem: almost what i'm planning here | 12:50 |
| Trooem | this place has it's advantages when it comes to bot outsourcing but...... other than that. useless. | 12:50 |
| * ybit hugs CIA-32 | 12:51 | |
| * CIA-32 hugs ybit | 12:51 | |
| fenn | bot abuse! | 12:51 |
| Trooem | no im not talking botnet dont worry | 12:51 |
| Trooem | i dont spam | 12:51 |
| * fenn abuses CIA-32 | 12:51 | |
| ybit | i didn't rub it inappropriately.. yet | 12:51 |
| katsmeow-afk | botnet != spam | 12:51 |
| Trooem | talking different type of macro bots | 12:51 |
| Trooem | just to make the data entry work for me | 12:52 |
| Trooem | or at least make the outsourcers cheaper | 12:52 |
| Trooem | i just figured out how to do that few months ago | 12:52 |
| Trooem | while playing that stupid game on facebook, farmville | 12:52 |
| Trooem | i got fed up clicking the damn yards | 12:52 |
| fenn | what sort of data entry? | 12:52 |
| Trooem | hmm | 12:52 |
| Trooem | what to tell you | 12:53 |
| Trooem | trying not to reveal myself | 12:53 |
| Trooem | haha | 12:53 |
| Trooem | there are BUNCH | 12:53 |
| Trooem | of different data entry work | 12:53 |
| fenn | it's all already on a computer, so you aren't reading forms or something | 12:53 |
| Trooem | actually you do | 12:53 |
| ybit | my #1 concern about forming this org. is finding people interested in it, if it's just me and family members and friends signing off as board members, i'm fucked. probably need to find some bio and chem students from the uni interested in this type of stuff | 12:53 |
| Trooem | there is a limit to what the computer can handle, and you need human eyes | 12:53 |
| kanzure | ybit: why are you doing something separate? | 12:53 |
| kanzure | do you not like me? :( | 12:53 |
| Trooem | brb | 12:54 |
| ybit | no no, i just have 5 acres of land | 12:54 |
| kanzure | in the middle of nowhere | 12:54 |
| ybit | and your point? :) | 12:54 |
| * kanzure fixed git-import-folder | 12:55 | |
| kanzure | terrible documentation | 12:55 |
| ybit | the only way to make decent money is through a) finishing school and working in a lab or b) going after some of these open-innovation prizes | 12:55 |
| ybit | and then forming a npo/npo/business on the land | 12:56 |
| ybit | i can start building now, but it will take a few years | 12:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | on the other paw, i am so pissed at this section of his 3rd world site, i'll be burning my place down after leaving it | 12:56 |
| fenn | does creating new facebook accounts for my internet marketing schemes count as "role playing game"? | 12:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | when everything you do is enforced by some one else's rules, it's all role playing | 12:58 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: or you could just give it to me :) | 12:58 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, you would not like it here, i think | 12:58 |
| ybit | the materials you don't need that is | 12:58 |
| ybit | i have access to trucks and trailers to haul just about anything | 12:59 |
| Trooem | :) | 12:59 |
| katsmeow-afk | you cannot use this place as a turcking hub, it's not level enough | 12:59 |
| Trooem | i want an A.I so bad | 12:59 |
| Trooem | LOL | 12:59 |
| Trooem | im so childish | 12:59 |
| ybit | ..don't we all have access to this stuff, but i mean, i'll probably only have to pay gas as opposed to renting fees | 12:59 |
| Trooem | i don't know what intelligence means | 13:00 |
| Trooem | you raised a good point i wasn't thinking of | 13:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | Trooem, look deep into my,,, umm,, putr lab down the hallway | 13:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | "pay gas" ? | 13:00 |
| ybit | yeah, pay for the gas to get there | 13:00 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: what do you do with your AI anyway? | 13:00 |
| Trooem | i guess there is no way of knowing where and how intelligence is forming even though you may connect batches of neurons | 13:00 |
| Trooem | or something | 13:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | fenn, atm i stay up til 5am wondering why th ehell both my ubuntu boxes are slower than win3.1 on a 286 | 13:01 |
| fenn | it's the desktop effects | 13:01 |
| fenn | and not enough ram, probably | 13:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | i turned off effects, it still takes concentration to click a window close 'X' and then minutes for it to actually close | 13:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | took 20 min last nite to redraw desktop icons | 13:02 |
| fenn | that's seriously broken | 13:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | 512meg ram on a 2.6hz p4 | 13:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | the other ubuntu is faster, but still 2x as slow as the slowest winxp box | 13:03 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: because ubuntu has too much crap installed | 13:03 |
| fenn | look at top, ps -ef, lsof | 13:03 |
| katsmeow-afk | k, soon as it is done "upgrading" | 13:03 |
| ybit | if you are using 286, you'll need something more modular such as debian, arch or gentoo | 13:04 |
| fenn | it's not a 286 | 13:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, i am not using a 286 | 13:04 |
| ybit | oic | 13:04 |
| Trooem | kanzure what are you upto? | 13:05 |
| Trooem | what do you plan on doing in the future? | 13:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | i wass hoping nix was faster, so i could better use the puters sitting around that are under 2ghz, but it might take the rest of the year to even get it installed :-/ | 13:05 |
| kanzure | Trooem: i'm using skdb to build transhuman tech | 13:06 |
| Trooem | ok... | 13:06 |
| Trooem | hmm | 13:06 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: htop is pretty as well: http://ybit.ath.cx/images/htop.png | 13:06 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: it can hog less resources if you are careful what you install and run, but you are ultimately limited by your hardware, but you know this | 13:07 |
| Trooem | let me know if you guys have a deal in mind. you know what i want and all... | 13:07 |
| ybit | what do you want? | 13:08 |
| fenn | ybit: what she described isn't "too much crap installed", it was something broken | 13:08 |
| Trooem | longevity! | 13:08 |
| Trooem | ROFL | 13:08 |
| kanzure | Trooem: we could make something for you | 13:08 |
| ybit | ah | 13:08 |
| kanzure | but i need money so that i don't have to go to school etc. | 13:08 |
| * ybit didn't read | 13:08 | |
| ybit | :02 < katsmeow-afk> i turned off effects, it still takes concentration to click a window close 'X' and then minutes for it to actually close | 13:09 |
| kanzure | right now my time is split down the middle | 13:09 |
| ybit | 13:02 < katsmeow-afk> took 20 min last nite to redraw desktop icons | 13:09 |
| Trooem | hmm | 13:09 |
| fenn | Trooem: the biggest things you can do for longevity: eat healthy, fast regularly, stop smoking, get regular exercise, don't live in a warzone | 13:09 |
| Trooem | yeah | 13:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | se,, this is what bugs me, at the speed these are running, this is a useless deal , a waste of time, effort , and money: | 13:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | Dell Dimension 2400 Desktop Computer | 13:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | Specifications, Programs: Xubuntu OS, 384 RAM, 40GB Hard Drive, Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, CD RW, 5 USB | 13:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | This computer comes fully loaded, tested, and ready-to-go with the Linux-based Ubuntu operating system | 13:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | $28 + S&H | 13:10 |
| Trooem | wonder if aubrey is going to get the SENS approach working some day | 13:10 |
| Trooem | how much would they need... | 13:10 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: that should be plenty to run ubuntu.. maybe more ram would be good but it should work fine | 13:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | or this for $11 : Dell Dimension 2350 Pentium 4 1.8 GHz 512 Ram Desktop PC. Please note that this computer has a 1.8 GHz processor, 512 RAM, onboard video display, CD-RW drive | 13:10 |
| kanzure | Trooem: they have started doing a lot more research, yes | 13:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | but that puter, running winxp, is plenty fast | 13:11 |
| Trooem | great i'm sure they'll do something in next 10 years | 13:11 |
| Trooem | i gotta get ready to hop into the opportunity they have... | 13:12 |
| ybit | 13:10 < katsmeow-afk> Specifications, Programs: IXubuntu OS, 384 RAM, 40GB Hard Drive, Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, CD RW, 5 USB | 13:12 |
| ybit | where? | 13:12 |
| Trooem | so fenn studied molecular biology | 13:12 |
| ybit | i want it | 13:12 |
| Trooem | kanzure, what do you major in? | 13:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's broken, it takes too long to DO anything | 13:12 |
| * ybit is guessing the ram can be upgraded, will want to look at it | 13:12 | |
| kanzure | manufacturing engineering and design (it's a subspecialty of mechanical engineering) | 13:12 |
| Trooem | would you quit school if you were making a lot of money? | 13:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | the ram can be | 13:12 |
| kanzure | Trooem: yes | 13:12 |
| kanzure | i would put school on hold | 13:12 |
| Trooem | you don't care for a degree? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | not really | 13:12 |
| Trooem | oh on hold | 13:12 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: then i want it, that's twice as fast as the current machine | 13:13 |
| fenn | degrees are only useful for getting a job | 13:13 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's got two slots, you can put 333/400 DDR into it, not DDR2 or DDR3 tho | 13:13 |
| kanzure | if i'm making money why would i need a degree? | 13:13 |
| Trooem | if i pay you, would you help me cheat through school? | 13:13 |
| fenn | why do you want a degree? | 13:13 |
| katsmeow-afk | sheepskins impress | 13:13 |
| fenn | impress who? | 13:13 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: well that's lame, but that's what this comp has as well, but it'r process speed is 1.1ghz or something like that | 13:13 |
| Trooem | because of my peers. that's all there is to it. koreans are insane. | 13:13 |
| katsmeow-afk | sheepskin readers, personell depts | 13:13 |
| kanzure | Trooem: it's a possibility but honestly i think i could just tutor you and you could learn more | 13:13 |
| Trooem | all they do is measure people by their degree. | 13:14 |
| fenn | i don't understand why you would care what stupid people think | 13:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | stupid people have money | 13:14 |
| Trooem | kanzure: i'll hold on that offer and think deeply about it seriously. | 13:14 |
| kanzure | okay. | 13:14 |
| Trooem | katsmeow: yeah i'm stupid. what's it to you. | 13:14 |
| * katsmeow-afk regets the url for ybit | 13:14 | |
| katsmeow-afk | errr, Trooem, that's not what i said | 13:15 |
| Trooem | ok | 13:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | [13:15] <fenn> i don't understand why you would care what stupid people think ; [13:16] <katsmeow-afk> stupid people have money ; that is, you need money to live on earth, and one soruce is stupid people who read diploma | 13:16 |
| kanzure | Trooem: we can discuss it in more detail. give it some thought. | 13:16 |
| fenn | katsmeow-afk: well.. going on my assumption that degrees are only good for getting a job, i don't see why someone with money would want a degree | 13:16 |
| fenn | but apparently they are also good for getting more money? or something else? | 13:17 |
| Trooem | kanzure: yeah i'll be thinking deeply about it. by next year, i need to prepare for admission into a uni, but i can probably handle the high school courses (which i need to upgrade) but not the uni. i've got the cheating tools, in which you can sit at your home and see my exams, send me what i need to write down etc. LOL. | 13:17 |
| fenn | i mean nobody is throwing money at me because i have a degree | 13:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | this is a circular discussion with misunderstandings i did not intend | 13:17 |
| Trooem | but yes, cheating may not be a good way to go through 4 years of uni. | 13:17 |
| fenn | the town i lived in the last decade or so has the highest concentration of unemployed PhD's in the midwest | 13:19 |
| fenn | they are all doing stuff like working in a grocery store or waiting tables | 13:19 |
| fenn | it's absurd | 13:19 |
| * fenn blames the energy vortex | 13:19 | |
| * katsmeow-afk wonders if it's because the sheer numbers of grads with no real life experience is polluting the market | 13:20 | |
| Trooem | yeah probably.. | 13:21 |
| Trooem | no real life experience. school is so protected from outside. | 13:21 |
| Trooem | not that i have much experience.. | 13:21 |
| fenn | there was no job market at all.. main employer there was the university and the elevator factory | 13:21 |
| kanzure | "ELEVATOR FACTORY: because what goes up must come down." | 13:21 |
| fenn | all the limestone quarries went out of business | 13:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | importing Italian limestone is cheaper | 13:22 |
| fenn | who the hell knows | 13:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | i cannot get sperical bearings made in the usa, but a co in India will do it, and for cheaper | 13:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | it's nuts | 13:23 |
| fenn | bearings actually :) | 13:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | only thing cheaper than buying from India is making them myself,, tho China may be cheaper, i seem to have a language barrier | 13:24 |
| fenn | we lost our bearings | 13:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | greed | 13:24 |
| katsmeow-afk | store down the street tries to sell me $300 body grinders, when i can buy $20 from China, and am pleased with the $20 ones, but the usa oem would rather go bankrupt than sell decent stuff for $20 | 13:26 |
| katsmeow-afk | really, a machine makes all the components, a human assembles them in 2 minutes (30/hour), a machine boxes them up, and the oem process is done, i don't see the $300 worth of anything in there | 13:27 |
| ybit | the company trying to offer benefits such as health insurance to its employees? | 13:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | i dunno, but the labor cost is so small, why not throw that in too? | 13:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | at 30 units an hour, 240 a day, tack on a dollar per unit for $250/day in health coverage, ok | 13:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | see, the math for a $300 body grinder just does not work | 13:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | drat, bot just found another 650 urls it needs | 13:32 |
| fenn | $300 is a holdover from when tools actually cost money (labor) to make | 13:32 |
| fenn | in 1930 it was rare for a "handyman" to own a power tool | 13:33 |
| * katsmeow-afk nods | 13:33 | |
| ybit | then there's taxes on the business itself, it's property, and more benefits to cover, vacation, sick-leave, etc. | 13:33 |
| fenn | same reason people still earn the same wages they did in 1970, because it's what the assholes who are screwing everyone over can get away with | 13:33 |
| ybit | and the bills to run the building itself | 13:34 |
| ybit | $300 may still be too much, but how much business do they get? can they sell enough to maintain their standard of living? that's where it comes into play, the workers have to pay for themselves and their kids | 13:34 |
| fenn | we already went over the fact that the labor doesn't cost very much per item | 13:35 |
| fenn | the $300 die grinder is actually made in the same factory as the chinese crap, it just has better quality control so it seems higher quality | 13:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, at $1 per aseembled unit, they can get $30/hr, and at $1 per unit, they get nearly $10k paid towards insurance per month, is that not enough?!? | 13:36 |
| ybit | how do you figure this katsmeow-afk? fenn, when was this? i missed it :-\ | 13:36 |
| fenn | "human assembles them in 2 minutes, (30/hour), a machine boxes them up, and the oem process is done" | 13:37 |
| ybit | oh crap, my stiry fry is about to burnt, brb. | 13:37 |
| katsmeow-afk | and he misses it again | 13:37 |
| fenn | "house on fire, brb" | 13:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | i once did "tornado, brb....... i hope" | 13:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | i slid down the stairs to the cellar, it ripped all the siding off one side of the house | 13:38 |
| katsmeow-afk | lotta trees came down | 13:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | puter was fine | 13:39 |
| Trooem | anyone know how i can buy this? or make one? | 13:44 |
| Trooem | zerona | 13:44 |
| Trooem | LOL | 13:44 |
| Trooem | http://www.myzerona.com/ | 13:45 |
| Trooem | weight loss low laser device | 13:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | "eight-mile-long plume of TCE within the Ogallala Aquifer" | 13:46 |
| Trooem | is stem cell research generally an undergrad program at universities or... do you need to get a degree on something else first? | 13:48 |
| Trooem | like biochemistry? | 13:48 |
| fenn | yeah you need to get an undergrad first | 13:49 |
| Trooem | i wonder what it takes to get into a really prestigious school like MIT or yale or something | 13:49 |
| Trooem | oh | 13:49 |
| Trooem | shucks | 13:49 |
| Trooem | didn't know that | 13:49 |
| Trooem | i guess biochem must be it | 13:50 |
| fenn | all bio undergrad programs are boring and equally useless | 13:50 |
| Trooem | is molecular biology an undergrad program? | 13:50 |
| Trooem | yeah... i know i just want a degree... | 13:50 |
| fenn | probably not.. it wasn't at IU | 13:50 |
| fenn | my degree is actually microbiology | 13:50 |
| Trooem | oh | 13:50 |
| fenn | they have a new 'biotech' program though so maybe it's changing | 13:51 |
| fenn | basically it depends on what school | 13:51 |
| Trooem | i see | 13:51 |
| Trooem | would it be impossible to enter and graduate from a place like MIT? | 13:51 |
| fenn | i have no idea | 13:51 |
| fenn | ask someone who goes to MIT | 13:51 |
| Trooem | all human confined limits are we so different. haha.. | 13:52 |
| Trooem | so are you guys going to go ahead with the skdb project? | 13:53 |
| Trooem | can you please tell me how this is going to affect bioinformatic communities? | 13:53 |
| fenn | i've been working on it for about a year and apparently i'm giving a talk about it in two months, so yah looks like it.. | 13:54 |
| ybit | lol | 13:54 |
| ybit | It's worth noting that the poor person who asked the original question | 13:54 |
| ybit | -- about the legality (presumably in the US) of an independent group | 13:54 |
| ybit | administering anesthetics to mice -- dropped out of the thread about 3 | 13:54 |
| ybit | weeks ago. | 13:54 |
| fenn | "bioinformatics" is more about data analysis | 13:54 |
| ybit | i'm still there, just idling as usual | 13:55 |
| fenn | threads last too long on diybio | 13:55 |
| Trooem | fenn: do you think biochemistry is the single most important thing one needs to learn as fundamentals in order to engage in stem cells? | 13:56 |
| fenn | Trooem: skdb is not about doing original research, it's about aggregating what we already know into a usable format. synbio simply doesn't have enough information to go on at this point | 13:56 |
| Trooem | i see | 13:56 |
| Trooem | i guess it applies for mechanical engineering related principles... | 13:56 |
| Trooem | open design CAD stuff | 13:57 |
| fenn | mechanical enginering is a lot easier to see what went wrong | 13:57 |
| Trooem | basically rapid prototyping package | 13:57 |
| ybit | my last message was actually 2 months ago o.O | 13:57 |
| fenn | there's a lot more to mechanical engineering than "rapid prototyping" | 13:58 |
| fenn | oddly it's the simple stuff that is hard.. like how do you represent a bolt | 13:59 |
| fenn | or what is a color | 13:59 |
| fenn | the professor likes to use 'what is the purpose of a spring' as his example | 13:59 |
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| fenn | it can even out shock loads in a car suspension, or return a system to its starting state, or provide a constant friction force to regulate motion, or or or | 14:01 |
| Trooem | sounds complicated | 14:02 |
| katsmeow-afk | a spring is a coiled torque storage device | 14:04 |
| katsmeow-afk | VW beatles had uncoiled ones in the rear :-) | 14:05 |
| fenn | beatles had leaf springs? | 14:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | no | 14:06 |
| fenn | anyway a coil spring is just one type of spring | 14:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | they had spring steel rods , non-coiled springs | 14:06 |
| fenn | any device that behaves as F = -kx can be substituted | 14:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | if you find a car with a anti-sway bar, and fix the center of the rod to the frame, you could possibly remove that axle's suspension springs, tho the anti-swap bar isn't optomised for much travel | 14:10 |
| Trooem | fenn: can you sequence DNA and all that should you have equipments? you know what to go for and mix in genes and all that jazz? | 14:10 |
| katsmeow-afk | err, anti-sway | 14:10 |
| Trooem | i have no idea what i'm talking about but if you know what i mean | 14:10 |
| Trooem | DIYbio can you guys follow it? | 14:11 |
| Trooem | wonder what it takes to learn and follow all this. | 14:11 |
| * katsmeow-afk is into other things | 14:11 | |
| katsmeow-afk | and atm, i need to be outside to be into them | 14:11 |
| katsmeow-afk | bbl | 14:11 |
| fenn | Trooem: i know how DNA sequencing works, cluster analysis, sequence alignment etc | 14:12 |
| fenn | do you mean synthesis? like genetic engineering stuff? | 14:12 |
| Trooem | yes | 14:12 |
| Trooem | say to make a new cell | 14:12 |
| Trooem | which has mixes of different genes | 14:12 |
| Trooem | through...... electropolation? | 14:12 |
| Trooem | i dont know lol | 14:12 |
| fenn | there's a lot of details you don't know you have to know until it messes up | 14:13 |
| fenn | so i guess i don't know | 14:13 |
| fenn | but i think i do | 14:13 |
| fenn | make sense? | 14:13 |
| Trooem | yeah i'm hearing, if you had the equipments | 14:13 |
| Trooem | and the testing results- | 14:13 |
| fenn | in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice | 14:13 |
| Trooem | you can complete it | 14:13 |
| Trooem | in theory. haha yeah. | 14:13 |
| Trooem | i guess brillance is overshadowed by money as always | 14:14 |
| Trooem | tee hee hee | 14:14 |
| fenn | anyway if i had anything i wanted from invitrogen catalog and a couple years i could probably whip up something interesting | 14:14 |
| Trooem | invitrogen catalogue must be a list of tools you use to sequence DNA and all that | 14:14 |
| Trooem | nice | 14:15 |
| fenn | always wanted to make a pesticide resistant dandelion that expressed THC (the active ingredient of marijuana) | 14:15 |
| fenn | then spread the seeds over courthouse lawns everywhere | 14:15 |
| Trooem | everyone in politics would be high | 14:15 |
| Trooem | lol | 14:15 |
| fenn | oh, and add GFP too, so you can identify them | 14:15 |
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| Trooem | so i guess i gotta learn biochem in order to understand biology in general | 14:16 |
| Trooem | wow | 14:16 |
| Trooem | thats a lot of learning in chemistry | 14:16 |
| fenn | it's good to have a ground up understanding of complex systems | 14:16 |
| fenn | otherwise you get lost in magical thinking | 14:16 |
| Trooem | ic put yourself down to earth by looking at complicated stuff | 14:17 |
| Trooem | got it | 14:17 |
| Trooem | lol | 14:17 |
| drazak | kanzure: yeah of the 80 some dishes I've done culture with 2 60mm dishes got some budding yeast | 14:17 |
| drazak | not the end of the world | 14:17 |
| fenn | no i mean if you don't understand how the simple stuff works, how can you possibly try to understand the complex things? | 14:17 |
| fenn | chemistry is simple | 14:17 |
| Trooem | ok | 14:17 |
| fenn | biology is made from chemistry | 14:17 |
| Trooem | is there physics and mathematics in molecular or synbio? | 14:18 |
| Trooem | i dont want to learn those | 14:18 |
| fenn | not enough | 14:18 |
| Trooem | so if you know none of it, you can go through it anyway? | 14:18 |
| Trooem | nice | 14:18 |
| fenn | i had to take physics for dummies | 14:18 |
| fenn | it was useless | 14:19 |
| fenn | there ought to be a class on 'how to check your work' | 14:19 |
| Trooem | i think i'll just stick to chemistry related things... | 14:19 |
| Trooem | no need to waste time understanding physics and realize synbio dont need them haha | 14:19 |
| fenn | teach about units, error analysis, numerical methods, all that fun stuff | 14:20 |
| Trooem | they should make that stuff into a game | 14:20 |
| Trooem | 3d game | 14:20 |
| Trooem | like doom 3d | 14:20 |
| Trooem | all the learning. | 14:20 |
| fenn | like FoldIt? | 14:20 |
| Trooem | dont know what that is | 14:20 |
| fenn | it's a biology game about protein folding | 14:20 |
| Trooem | i mean, you gotta pass a exam in order to pass the stage, | 14:20 |
| Trooem | get upto next level, | 14:20 |
| Trooem | and the PDA's in the games reveal what you need to study | 14:21 |
| Trooem | lol | 14:21 |
| ybit | Trooem: http://fold.it | 14:21 |
| fenn | yeah i agree, school would be more fun if it were a video game | 14:21 |
| Trooem | sounds good | 14:21 |
| Trooem | no drama or suspense in studies, people with attention deficit disorders can never learn | 14:21 |
| ybit | video games are lame, i just want the info uploaded when needed :P | 14:21 |
| fenn | not going to happen | 14:21 |
| Trooem | make it focus with a storyline and amazing graphics, people would want to study aye. lol | 14:21 |
| ybit | 14:21 < Trooem> no drama or suspense in studies, people with attention deficit disorders can never learn | 14:21 |
| ybit | bah | 14:22 |
| * ybit is diagnosed adhd | 14:22 | |
| Trooem | oh sorry | 14:22 |
| fenn | ybit: everyone builds their own unique mental model of the universe.. this is reflected in the structure of their brain | 14:22 |
| ybit | 14:22 < Trooem> oh sorry | 14:22 |
| ybit | lol, don't be | 14:22 |
| fenn | ybit: the only way knowledge uploading could ever work is if everyone thought exactly the same way | 14:22 |
| Trooem | just saying it would increase concentration in today's internet age. where people browse through info rather than reading it in detail | 14:23 |
| ybit | i'm thinking more of facts, algos, and metadata | 14:23 |
| Trooem | everything is so visual i like it | 14:23 |
| fenn | why not just use a book | 14:23 |
| fenn | er, that was to ybit | 14:23 |
| ybit | nothing wrong with that, it's just a little time consuming | 14:23 |
| fenn | there's a huge difference between knowing something and having rapid access to it | 14:24 |
| ybit | i think you are referring to the diff of knowledge and exp | 14:24 |
| fenn | most people don't know anything though.. they just store facts in their brain | 14:24 |
| fenn | no i'm referring to packing vs mapping | 14:24 |
| Trooem | asian education = packing | 14:25 |
| Trooem | western education = mapping | 14:25 |
| fenn | Trooem: you only say that because you're asian | 14:25 |
| Trooem | why you see so less nobel prize winners in asia | 14:25 |
| Trooem | if you see people studying here, | 14:25 |
| Trooem | you'd know too | 14:25 |
| ybit | oic, mapping, slightly diff from exp | 14:26 |
| Trooem | i mean they study like 10 hours a day | 14:26 |
| Trooem | and get no real results | 14:26 |
| Trooem | it's just bullshit learning | 14:26 |
| fenn | i've noticed westerns admire asian culture more than asians, and asians admire western culture more than westerners.. blah | 14:26 |
| Trooem | they have no abstract thought | 14:26 |
| fenn | familiarity breeds contempt | 14:26 |
| Trooem | in reality, asians have petty skills generally speaking. more 'rounded' with general information and overall skills, | 14:27 |
| Trooem | but nothing they 'master' | 14:27 |
| Trooem | is in their culture- | 14:27 |
| Trooem | hence no nobel prizes | 14:27 |
| Trooem | there is a limit to their information, | 14:27 |
| Trooem | in their language as well | 14:27 |
| Trooem | everything up to date is in english too | 14:27 |
| Trooem | haha | 14:27 |
| fenn | yeah | 14:27 |
| Trooem | not to mention the access to that information | 14:27 |
| fenn | as much as english sucks, it's the most complete language (that's why it's so hard to learn) | 14:28 |
| Trooem | in asia, uni is the only place where you can learn | 14:28 |
| Trooem | so people naturally think degree is the best thing in the world | 14:28 |
| ybit | there is something called the internet.. | 14:28 |
| Trooem | and it's mostly english | 14:28 |
| fenn | i'm a fan of "just in time learning" | 14:28 |
| Trooem | if you see korean sites, it's bullshit info everywhere | 14:28 |
| Trooem | what is that fenn? | 14:29 |
| fenn | the procedure is as follows: go out and do something you dont know how to do.. then figure out what you need to learn in order to do it | 14:29 |
| Trooem | is that a group of something? | 14:29 |
| Trooem | i got problems with that equation | 14:29 |
| fenn | then do it again, and succeed this time :) | 14:29 |
| Trooem | i fear new things and sticking to it | 14:29 |
| Trooem | i get so hollow- lonely when i study | 14:29 |
| Trooem | i can't stand the silence | 14:30 |
| Trooem | lol | 14:30 |
| fenn | talk to people who know what you want to learn | 14:30 |
| Trooem | if only i can motivate myself consistantly | 14:30 |
| Trooem | like having someone force-feeding me with information | 14:30 |
| fenn | well, that's difficult for the person force-feeding | 14:30 |
| Trooem | tutoring perhaps | 14:30 |
| Trooem | hence why i need to pay up | 14:31 |
| Trooem | i wouldn't mind if they do their job | 14:31 |
| Trooem | but rarely people would want to spend 8 hours a day | 14:31 |
| Trooem | lol | 14:31 |
| Trooem | which is the rate i want to learn | 14:31 |
| fenn | take it slow.. you aren't going to die of old age before you need to learn quantum mechanics | 14:31 |
| ybit | re: everything in english, Trooem, http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/위키백과:대문 http://google.com/translate and http://google.ko.kr might be some of your best friends then... | 14:31 |
| ybit | btw, how did you find the building brains page? | 14:32 |
| fenn | english language wikipedia is still the best | 14:32 |
| Trooem | ybit who are you talking to? me? | 14:32 |
| ybit | hmm.. does this adl comp not support foreign characters? | 14:32 |
| fenn | probably doesn't have korean fonts installed | 14:33 |
| ybit | Trooem, yeah, i was wondering how you found building brains page | 14:33 |
| Trooem | i speak english ok. rest of the korea is in peril though | 14:33 |
| Trooem | hmm i dont know it wasnt in the search engines i dont think | 14:33 |
| Trooem | i must have.... stumbled on it | 14:33 |
| Trooem | inside the website | 14:33 |
| Trooem | why? | 14:33 |
| ybit | just curious | 14:34 |
| Trooem | was this confidential information? | 14:34 |
| Trooem | lol | 14:34 |
| Trooem | did kanzure write all that? | 14:34 |
| fenn | the internet is a small world | 14:34 |
| ybit | yeah | 14:34 |
| Trooem | wow pretty good analysis | 14:34 |
| ybit | not sure if there quotes in there, but aside from that, it's kanzure | 14:34 |
| fenn | literally speaking, it's a small world network | 14:34 |
| fenn | (which is a type of network structure) | 14:35 |
| fenn | but i meant the social structure, which is also a small world network | 14:35 |
| * fenn stops babbling | 14:35 | |
| Trooem | brb | 14:36 |
| fenn | i wonder if it's possible to go to a purely random web page | 14:39 |
| fenn | or at least something random in google's map | 14:39 |
| Trooem | not sure | 14:41 |
| Trooem | webferret.com? | 14:41 |
| Trooem | no that's just list of search engine queries | 14:41 |
| Trooem | what is the goal of http://heybryan.org/ ? | 14:42 |
| Trooem | isn't it just revealing lot of information to others? | 14:42 |
| Trooem | is that a good thing to you personally? | 14:42 |
| Trooem | or is it a waste of time? | 14:42 |
| Trooem | to be making a archive like this | 14:43 |
| fenn | aha | 14:45 |
| fenn | http://random.yahoo.com/fast/ryl/ | 14:45 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-90_Orlyonok http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2200021317530929051# | 14:45 |
| ybit | one day... | 14:46 |
| Trooem | fenn: that's cool | 14:46 |
| fenn | Trooem: what's the purpose of a personal home page? or what's the purpose of writing down summaries and linkdumps? | 14:46 |
| ybit | i'll let katsmeow-afk and Phreedom build theirs first | 14:46 |
| fenn | boats are lame.. i want a flying saucer | 14:47 |
| Trooem | fenn: i've always found that facinating | 14:47 |
| Trooem | why show yourself so much | 14:47 |
| ybit | fenn: you should upgrade to starship | 14:47 |
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| Trooem | you guys would like the EVE online game | 14:47 |
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| fenn | Trooem: it's a cultural thing.. there's no a-priori reason to do things one way or another | 14:48 |
| fenn | hackers tend to share information as much as possible | 14:48 |
| Trooem | fenn, is kanzure and you planning on going into online marketing? | 14:48 |
| Trooem | i guess so | 14:48 |
| fenn | i have no idea what he's thinking, but right now i'm sort of dead in the water | 14:48 |
| fenn | so i will look into it | 14:48 |
| Trooem | let me know if you want to split percenta and team up i could use technically savvy experimenters.. | 14:49 |
| Trooem | i'll put you upto date. | 14:49 |
| ybit | what do you mean dead in the water? you both are working at campbell's lab still right? | 14:49 |
| fenn | ybit: no | 14:49 |
| Trooem | you guys were working in a lab? | 14:50 |
| Trooem | nice | 14:50 |
| fenn | ybit: that was only a summer thing for me. campbell wants me to go to germany maybe, but i don't know how serious he is, or how serious he thinks i am, or something | 14:50 |
| ybit | .de for what? | 14:50 |
| fenn | he said 'i need to know you are able to work on the things i a interested in' | 14:50 |
| ybit | i would take that opportunity | 14:51 |
| fenn | i think he is taking a sabbatical | 14:51 |
| ybit | oh, nm | 14:51 |
| fenn | but he will be collaborating with people at university of munich | 14:51 |
| fenn | 2000 euro/mo or so | 14:52 |
| ybit | okay take it :) | 14:52 |
| fenn | sounds fun.. but not if i have to use microsoft crap | 14:52 |
| fenn | my brain is warped enough from campbellism already | 14:52 |
| fenn | Trooem: a computer lab. it's not as cool as it sounds | 14:52 |
| ybit | Trooem: search for "automated design lab" | 14:53 |
| fenn | here is what i accomplished, for the most part: http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/ | 14:53 |
| Trooem | kanzure deleted the roadmap, | 14:53 |
| Trooem | damn i wanted that page | 14:53 |
| ybit | it's not really a roadmap | 14:54 |
| Trooem | kanzure, send me that page to save in my HDD | 14:54 |
| Trooem | i know | 14:54 |
| Trooem | but i liked the outlines | 14:54 |
| Trooem | got some interesting references | 14:54 |
| Trooem | saves me time researching | 14:54 |
| Trooem | whats with the lego stuff | 14:55 |
| Trooem | building bricks | 14:55 |
| fenn | legos have standardized interfaces that can connect to other parts | 14:55 |
| fenn | it was a test of the interface representation | 14:56 |
| Trooem | nice.. | 14:56 |
| fenn | you can use the same code to say 'this plugs into a usb port' or something like that | 14:56 |
| ybit | Trooem: if you like incomplete outlines, here's two more for you: | 14:56 |
| ybit | http://github.com/kanzure/skdb/blob/master/doc/proposals/trans-tech.yaml | 14:56 |
| ybit | http://gitorious.org/diyhplus/diyhplus_org/blobs/master/todo.org | 14:56 |
| fenn | heh | 14:56 |
| fenn | skdb was supposed to build these things automatically | 14:57 |
| fenn | we just havent entered the data | 14:57 |
| ybit | nap time | 14:58 |
| Trooem | me too gtg peace | 14:58 |
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| kanzure | Trooem: if you just want the degree why not get a fake degree? | 15:02 |
| fenn | interchangeable parts http://craphound.com/?p=2340 | 15:14 |
| kanzure | how does it work? | 15:16 |
| kanzure | why is this a toy? | 15:16 |
| fenn | did you click on the link to the flash game? | 15:17 |
| kanzure | no, it's flash | 15:17 |
| fenn | every tile has 4 edges that look something like two lines some distance apart.. then they fill in the center of the tile with goofy drawings of snake and factories and stuff | 15:18 |
| fenn | so when you move it around, it still looks like a complete drawing but in a different arrangement | 15:19 |
| fenn | why am i bothering to explain this | 15:19 |
| kanzure | so it's just puzzle pieces | 15:19 |
| fenn | not really | 15:20 |
| fenn | a puzzle only goes together one way | 15:20 |
| fenn | this is the opposite of a puzzle | 15:20 |
| fenn | why do you use firefox and not have flash installed? | 15:21 |
| kanzure | i do have flash, i just want to avoid it | 15:21 |
| kanzure | yet-another-thing-that-i-am-going-to-have-to-reverse-engineer-to-make-any-use-out-of | 15:22 |
| fenn | would you prefer it were javascript? | 15:22 |
| fenn | what if it's js with no permissive license? | 15:22 |
| fenn | ultimately if it boils down to not looking at any content you can't reuse, well.. that's just silly | 15:23 |
| fenn | because the content itself is not important, it's the idea | 15:23 |
| kanzure | but didn't we already have this idea | 15:23 |
| fenn | yes but you're looking for visual analogies, remember? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | i am? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | oh | 15:23 |
| fenn | to communicate to stupid people who pay $120 to attend a conference | 15:23 |
| kanzure | um, er, right | 15:24 |
| kanzure | good job | 15:24 |
| ybit | 15:23 < fenn> to communicate to stupid people who pay $120 to attend a conference | 15:24 |
| ybit | well fsck you too fenn :) | 15:25 |
| fenn | yes? | 15:25 |
| fenn | i'm sorry you have buyer's remorse | 15:25 |
| kanzure | ybit: we could have made you a speaker | 15:25 |
| ybit | it's you two who have done all the coding so far, so it only makes sense that you two speak. though, if you are talking about hacking the system, is that still possible? :D | 15:29 |
| fenn | hacking what system? | 15:29 |
| ybit | paying $120 to see people in person | 15:30 |
| fenn | oh, i have no idea | 15:30 |
| fenn | i don't even know who is running the show | 15:30 |
| ybit | jata seems to be organizing most of it | 15:30 |
| * ybit does the nap ting finally | 15:31 | |
| kanzure | todd, jata and alex seem to be running it, yes | 15:31 |
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| fenn | well that was disappointing | 15:53 |
| fenn | apparently these guys only made a tree for zerg: http://www.flickr.com/photos/starfeeder/2598542907/sizes/o/ | 15:53 |
| bkero | I'm at the drupalcamp pdx | 16:02 |
| fenn | kanzure: https://dnacore.mgh.harvard.edu/synthesis/index.shtml | 16:14 |
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| fenn | "Flashbake." This is a set of Python scripts that check your hot files for changes every 15 minutes, and checks in any changed files to a local git repository. | 17:41 |
| kanzure | hey spurserh | 17:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: i'm sure vim or emacs has bindings for committing changes or something | 17:51 |
| kanzure | too bad git/mercurial isn't made for rapid commits | 17:51 |
| spurserh | hey | 17:54 |
| kanzure | i wrote a long email to maria catalina about the attacama research project | 17:54 |
| kanzure | so hopefully she'll reply and abuse me | 17:54 |
| fenn | i've come to the conclusion that it's much harder to do stuff on earth than in orbit | 17:55 |
| fenn | so i don't really see the advantage to doing stuff in the middle of a desert | 17:56 |
| fenn | who am i kidding.. good night | 17:57 |
| kanzure | night fenn | 17:57 |
| kanzure | maria.catalina@spaceportacademy.org | 18:00 |
| katsmeow-afk | desert : cheap land, solar power? | 18:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | hmm, Chile | 18:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | hight altitudes | 18:15 |
| katsmeow-afk | lil less enthused | 18:15 |
| kanzure | michelle bachelet is the most awesome president ever | 18:22 |
| kanzure | don't fuck with her | 18:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | k | 18:23 |
| genehacker | atacama research facility? | 18:36 |
| genehacker | the nasa thing? | 18:36 |
| kanzure | not nasa | 18:38 |
| genehacker | link? | 18:50 |
| kanzure | fwd'd to open manufacturing | 19:01 |
| drazak | are any of you knowledgeable about getting ubuntu to go though both my laptop monitor and svideo? | 19:04 |
| kanzure | no but look at xorg.conf and xrandr | 19:07 |
| ybit | drazak: i think it's on a case-by-case basis in that it all depends on your graphics card, #ubuntu, #xorg, #ati, #nvidia would be your best bet | 19:07 |
| kanzure | don't try to set up a presentation 5 minutes before you're supposed to give it | 19:07 |
| kanzure | i really screwed up my xorg.conf file :( | 19:07 |
| ybit | or make backups at least :) | 19:08 |
| ybit | speaking of backups, kanzurrrrre | 19:08 |
| kanzure | monday | 19:08 |
| ybit | diy-h+ mirror please? | 19:08 |
| ybit | alright, alright | 19:08 |
| kanzure | my connection is too slow | 19:08 |
| kanzure | stop raping it :'( | 19:08 |
| ybit | heh, i haven't raped it in ages | 19:09 |
| drazak | kanzure: I've done that | 19:09 |
| drazak | kanzure: but no, my mom and I want to watch Fringe on my laptop on the tv | 19:09 |
| drazak | just gonna try a couple lines in my xorg.conf... brb | 19:10 |
| drazak | (famous last words) | 19:10 |
| genehacker | wait a second kanzure are you at that conference thing | 19:29 |
| ybit | genehacker: that's bkero | 19:29 |
| drazak | ergh | 19:36 |
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| Trooem | question: could you guys build a portable text scanner like the docupen, but silent, shorter in length, (about 7cm) and very thin? | 19:57 |
| Trooem | or would that be too much hanking? | 19:57 |
| Trooem | hacking | 19:58 |
| genehacker | cool how much money will you pay us to do so? | 19:59 |
| Trooem | not too sure... | 20:00 |
| Trooem | i guess it's a service.. | 20:00 |
| Trooem | but i want to know if you guys can make it. | 20:00 |
| Trooem | i was talking to kanzure though lol | 20:01 |
| drazak | well kanzure, fenn, and genehacker are all within a mile of eachother | 20:04 |
| genehacker | it's more than a mile | 20:04 |
| genehacker | anyway, the point is we have higher priority projects than portable text scanners | 20:04 |
| Trooem | ok. your right | 20:05 |
| kanzure | a portable text scanner would be useful i think | 20:08 |
| kanzure | OCR still sucks though :( | 20:08 |
| genehacker | oh I know | 20:09 |
| genehacker | why not use a neuron tissue culture to do the letter recognition | 20:09 |
| drazak | uh huhh | 20:11 |
| genehacker | neuron tissue is great at doing such things | 20:12 |
| genehacker | though keeping something like that alive would be hard | 20:12 |
| genehacker | it's more on the ridiculous side of doing things | 20:14 |
| Trooem | OCR=optical character recognition? yeah.. | 20:14 |
| Trooem | better than a portable scanner, just picture the text with a digicam | 20:15 |
| Trooem | thats probably better | 20:15 |
| Trooem | im talking about making a cheat device lol | 20:15 |
| Trooem | got to send the image of the exam to someone | 20:15 |
| Trooem | so the verdict so far is a button camera | 20:16 |
| Trooem | but i thought it won't deliver the text very well... so i thought of a mini text scanner but... | 20:16 |
| Trooem | that may be too revealing in the end.. | 20:16 |
| genehacker | ok well that's not really our sort of thing | 20:17 |
| Trooem | now... if i had a ultrasonic text scanner. ROFL | 20:17 |
| Trooem | i see ok | 20:17 |
| Trooem | just asking suggestions then... | 20:17 |
| Trooem | how big is your team anyway? | 20:18 |
| Trooem | i see kanzure, fenn, genehacker so far | 20:18 |
| genehacker | team what team? | 20:18 |
| Trooem | skdb project | 20:18 |
| Trooem | ? | 20:18 |
| Trooem | no team? | 20:18 |
| Trooem | ok nvm | 20:18 |
| kanzure | yes it's a team | 20:19 |
| genehacker | skdb is not intended to help people cheat on tests | 20:19 |
| ybit | team dexter family go! | 20:19 |
| genehacker | ok I guess you could call it a team then | 20:20 |
| genehacker | anyway kanzure so I'm wondering, how would you go about representing an LED throwie in SKDB | 20:21 |
| genehacker | after all it is one of the coolest projects on instructables | 20:22 |
| Trooem | got it of course lol | 20:24 |
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| genehacker | anyway on cheating for test, studying tends to be easier than building a miniature pen sized scanner | 20:28 |
| Trooem | i'm not the one building it. i'm the one paying for it.. so there is a difference.. | 20:30 |
| Trooem | but then yeah, time spent waiting around would be better to use in studying. not to mention following the rest of the courses. | 20:31 |
| Trooem | but grades are grades. marks are marks if you can learn and get the grades in such a way is sure-fire | 20:31 |
| Trooem | why not... | 20:31 |
| genehacker | wait did you'd pay us? | 20:31 |
| genehacker | you'd pay us? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | what is an LED throwie, anyway? | 20:32 |
| genehacker | cyberpunk graffiti devices of the present | 20:32 |
| genehacker | http://www.instructables.com/id/LED-Throwies/ | 20:33 |
| genehacker | led+battery+magnet | 20:33 |
| genehacker | leds that stick to anything ferromagnetic | 20:34 |
| kanzure | should be pretty easy | 20:35 |
| kanzure | first step would be to represent LEDs | 20:35 |
| kanzure | which are needed | 20:35 |
| Trooem | kanzure: to answer your question above, i don't want a fake degree because it's well, fake. would a person going for the awards in science need a legitimate degree? | 20:36 |
| Trooem | yeah that's why. | 20:36 |
| genehacker | how would you automatically generate the diagram for that kanzure? | 20:37 |
| genehacker | Trooem what class is this for? | 20:37 |
| genehacker | if it's english class I'll consider it | 20:39 |
| Trooem | sorry, it's all areas. plus i would need to pay for accomodation +rent+ monthly fee for your stand-by services | 20:40 |
| Trooem | im thinking what the best way for is to make a deal amongst kanzure and myself or others | 20:40 |
| Trooem | way i see it, it's a 1 on 1 type of thing | 20:41 |
| Trooem | and... | 20:41 |
| Trooem | everybody seems so knee-deep in their relations here | 20:41 |
| Trooem | i dare not budge in and start a partnership | 20:41 |
| Trooem | with 1 specific person | 20:41 |
| Trooem | the things i do is hush-hush | 20:41 |
| Trooem | and i need to know if i can trust 1 person not to tell the secret on others | 20:42 |
| Trooem | and make me look like a fool | 20:42 |
| Trooem | not talking just cheats........ | 20:42 |
| Trooem | so yes kanzure, i'm thinking deeply. your talents and interests are on par with what i am pursueing. | 20:42 |
| Trooem | the only problem is that dedication wise, your loyalty belongs to others. :( | 20:43 |
| Trooem | if, you could make 10k per month guaranteed, would you be interested in teaming up with myself, and myself only, and pursue same/similar goal? money/academia/science project. etc... | 20:45 |
| Trooem | and ditch the rest. | 20:45 |
| Trooem | no disrespect to others here. | 20:45 |
| genehacker | did you say money? | 20:45 |
| genehacker | sure | 20:45 |
| Trooem | who are you genehacker, do you have a website like bryan? | 20:46 |
| Trooem | heybryan.org ? | 20:46 |
| Trooem | i want to know your interests and what you are capable of. | 20:46 |
| genehacker | I prefer not to give much information about myself | 20:46 |
| Trooem | ok nvm then | 20:46 |
| genehacker | but seriously who are you | 20:47 |
| genehacker | I'm confused | 20:47 |
| Trooem | i'm not going through all that again so never you mind :( | 20:47 |
| Trooem | way too much pessimism in everyone. | 20:47 |
| genehacker | 10k per month for working on a science project(as in a diy DNA synthesizer?) | 20:49 |
| genehacker | anyway a portable document scanner would be very easy to build | 20:50 |
| genehacker | the pen approach is not the way to go about it | 20:50 |
| Trooem | i can't answer the origination of the money :( | 20:52 |
| Trooem | only shown to my partner | 20:53 |
| Trooem | yeah ok | 20:53 |
| Trooem | i was thinking about a hidden spy device though | 20:53 |
| Trooem | like on your wrist or something | 20:53 |
| genehacker | now you aren't part of the CIA are you? | 20:53 |
| Trooem | guess it'd look weird if i'm suddenly scanning a exam | 20:53 |
| Trooem | no way lol | 20:53 |
| genehacker | it's ok if you are I'm still willing to help | 20:54 |
| genehacker | seriously if you're going to pull out a pen out of your pocket that glows across the page, that's going to look suspicious | 20:55 |
| Trooem | yup | 20:56 |
| Trooem | so no glowing pen | 20:56 |
| Trooem | attached to your wrist | 20:56 |
| Trooem | so it looks like part of your clothing | 20:56 |
| Trooem | completly black | 20:56 |
| Trooem | lol | 20:56 |
| Trooem | it would still make a sound, it would need my arm-movements | 20:57 |
| Trooem | it would look weird | 20:57 |
| Trooem | it was just an abstract thought never you mind. | 20:57 |
| genehacker | that's going to look weird | 20:57 |
| Trooem | gtg eat bbl | 20:57 |
| genehacker | there's a much better way to do it | 20:58 |
| genehacker | to find out, please give me large sum of money | 20:58 |
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| genehacker | who the heck was that? | 22:12 |
| kanzure | dunno | 22:12 |
| genehacker | how the heck did he find skdb? | 22:12 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/buildingbrains.html | 22:12 |
| genehacker | sounds an awful lot like he's doing something very illegal | 22:13 |
| kanzure | illegal in which country? | 22:14 |
| genehacker | money from an undisclosed source, that's mighty suspicious | 22:14 |
| genehacker | illegal everywhere but somalia | 22:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | is alkyd and acrylic paint the same stuff? it's being used interchangeably in places | 22:33 |
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| CIA-23 | djangit: kanzure master * r3eda9e9 / (templates/index.html wiki/views.py): fixed up the views some more- working on subdirectories - http://bit.ly/FBtPw | 23:05 |
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| ybit | lame: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#USING_ANIMALS :: "Overall: Don't do this at home. Please. Stick with microorganisms and insects. Please. For the sake of the animals, for the sake of your own health, and for the sake of your research." | 23:37 |
| ybit | maybe | 23:37 |
| ybit | g | 23:37 |
| ybit | huh, interesting, ctl-j == send in irssi | 23:37 |
| ybit | anywho, get a uni involved in research, problem solved without having to worry about specifics which seem to be absent | 23:38 |
| ybit | 21:35 <ybit> will have to make one of these things: | 23:39 |
| ybit | 21:35 <ybit> http://www.teamwavelength.com/products/product.asp?part=6&view=specs#tabs | 23:39 |
| ybit | 21:36 <ybit> then the recording device: | 23:39 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/A%20portable%20microelectrode%20array%20recording%20system%20incorporating%20cultured%20neuronal%20networks%20for%20neurotoxin%20detection.pdf | 23:39 |
| ybit | 21:37 <ybit> then the mea device mentioned in | 23:39 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/unsorted_papers/Modeling%20the%20nonlinear%20properties%20of%20the%20in%20vitro%20hippocampal%20perforant%20path-dentate%20system%20using%20multielectrode%20array%20technology.pdf | 23:39 |
| ybit | 21:37 <ybit> _then_ i can carry out the experiment | 23:39 |
| ybit | 21:37 <ybit> there are two papers on construction of the mea, that paper isn't it, it's the actual work i'm trying to replicate | 23:39 |
| ybit | ^general overview of what's to take place before i get to work on mice | 23:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | hmmmmmmmmmmm ,, for 20% phosphoric acid in water : Boiling Point: 216º C (420.8º F) | 23:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | https://www.tinmantech.com/html/MSDS-MFR.pdf | 23:45 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, where is Madison , Ala ? | 23:50 |
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