| --- Day changed Sat Oct 31 2009 | ||
| fenn | is that online? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | one sec | 00:00 |
| kanzure | uh, whoami | 00:00 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/app/web.py/package/lego/data/yaml ? | 00:01 |
| kanzure | oh. no that's not recent. | 00:02 |
| fenn | well i have no idea where you are doing development now | 00:02 |
| kanzure | hold on, updating it. have to pull on /var/www/skdb/ | 00:03 |
| kanzure | blah no module named templates? | 00:03 |
| kanzure | oh that's right this is the one with all the path errors | 00:04 |
| kanzure | grumble grumble | 00:06 |
| CIA-23 | skdb: kanzure * r aa30cd1 /packages/ (lego/metadata.yaml screw/metadata.yaml): there is no !files tag yet, so i removed it from the metadata | 00:10 |
| kanzure | i wonder why i can't access it externally | 00:12 |
| kanzure | it should be running on port 8080 on adl | 00:12 |
| kanzure | i just don't understand :( | 00:15 |
| kanzure | apache was easier to configure than this | 00:15 |
| kanzure | the gnomes can fix this for me. g'night | 00:19 |
| fenn | with such tiny imaging elements why do they have to have a big goofy headset? http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/ces20051.htm | 00:24 |
| fenn | huh looks like michael vassar is actually intelligent http://sadtech.blogspot.com/2005/03/summer-vacation.html#comments | 00:53 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure if he and i are on good terms or not | 00:58 |
| fenn | oh get over it | 00:58 |
| fenn | you broke an unspoken rule and he said go away | 00:58 |
| kanzure | no before that | 00:59 |
| fenn | oh | 00:59 |
| kanzure | or after that, but it's more possible that the after-that was influenced by the go-away so i'm not counting it | 00:59 |
| genehacker | lenses fenn | 01:19 |
| genehacker | also to make it look big and goofy | 01:19 |
| fenn | that's exactly what i don't want though | 01:39 |
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| splicer_ | (good thing he found the singularity cult then) | 02:42 |
| -!- splicer_ is now known as splicer | 02:54 | |
| genehacker | fenn don't you want to become a gargoyle? | 03:39 |
| fenn | i do, but those headsets just suck | 03:54 |
| fenn | AR is supposed to be enhanced vision.. and 800x600 is not good enough to totally obscure any sort of natural face-to-face social conduct | 03:55 |
| fenn | especially if i can get 640x480 in a tiny little blob that hangs off my glasses | 03:56 |
| fenn | actually the microopticals were 800x600 so there's really no excues | 03:56 |
| fenn | oops maybe not | 03:58 |
| fenn | i'm thinking little OLED icons for your eyes aren't totally out of the question | 03:59 |
| fenn | you'd have an IR camera eyetracker anyway | 03:59 |
| fenn | hmm | 04:02 |
| fenn | pentagon puts out call for "Multi-Robot Pursuit System" that will let packs of robots "search for and detect a non-cooperative human". | 04:03 |
| genehacker | now the thing to do is to figure out how to stop packs of robots from catching you before they happen | 04:10 |
| genehacker | I wonder if EEstor capacitors will allow handheld herf guns... | 04:11 |
| genehacker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Svalbard#Spitsbergen_Treaty | 04:13 |
| fenn | it's quite simple to make an EMP grenade | 04:14 |
| fenn | directing the pulse can't be that much harder | 04:15 |
| fenn | of course then you have explosions and stuff | 04:15 |
| splicer | it's easy to build defences against | 04:16 |
| splicer | (the emp) | 04:16 |
| splicer | someone once said said "for every high tech threat there is a low tech solution" | 04:18 |
| fenn | never say never | 04:21 |
| splicer | works for bin laden | 04:23 |
| genehacker | it's true actually | 04:23 |
| genehacker | you know the military's new ambush proof vehicle? | 04:24 |
| genehacker | well it's not ambush proof | 04:24 |
| genehacker | and can be taken out with some very simple explosives | 04:24 |
| genehacker | like homemade explosively formed penetrators | 04:24 |
| genehacker | also I just added "for every high tech threat there is a low tech solution" to my oneliners.txt | 04:25 |
| splicer | for a while it was possible to blind tanks with graphite powder | 04:26 |
| fenn | good for you | 04:28 |
| genehacker | how were tanks blinded with graphite? | 04:28 |
| fenn | does a relativistic bombardment count as a high tech threat? | 04:28 |
| genehacker | quite | 04:28 |
| fenn | pray tell, what sort of low tech solution is there? | 04:29 |
| genehacker | for relativisitic bombardment? | 04:29 |
| fenn | ya | 04:29 |
| genehacker | putting a lot of mass between the relativistic bombardment and you | 04:30 |
| splicer | i'm trying to understand what that means | 04:30 |
| genehacker | so how were tanks blinded with graphite? | 04:30 |
| genehacker | did graphite cover up the periscope? | 04:30 |
| genehacker | and how was the graphite blinding problem resolved? | 04:31 |
| splicer | they have viewports... and they could be clogged by graphite until they put high pressure washes on them | 04:31 |
| genehacker | wouldn't paint clog the viewports? | 04:32 |
| genehacker | or stickypaint? | 04:32 |
| splicer | probably | 04:32 |
| splicer | but there was graphite ordonance i think | 04:33 |
| splicer | well spent money | 04:33 |
| genehacker | so one solution I heard for surviving a relativistic bombardment was being inside a submarine at the bottom of the ocean | 04:33 |
| genehacker | a submarine is lower tech than a relativistic bombardment | 04:34 |
| fenn | i'm not sure that would actually work | 04:34 |
| genehacker | I don't know if it would either, though it's part of the plot of a book | 04:35 |
| genehacker | that I haven't read | 04:35 |
| fenn | if the projectile(?) didn't actually stop, the x-rays would keep going | 04:35 |
| fenn | er, did | 04:35 |
| fenn | from bremsstrahlung | 04:36 |
| genehacker | yeah, but the atmosphere likes to stop x-rays | 04:36 |
| fenn | no it doesnt | 04:36 |
| fenn | we use x-rays because they go straight through most matter | 04:37 |
| genehacker | blargh there's a detailed description of what happens in a relativistic bombardment in the killing star | 04:37 |
| fenn | yeah i know | 04:37 |
| fenn | it's more like 'how to wipe out a solar system' | 04:37 |
| genehacker | is that in the library | 04:37 |
| fenn | one moment i'll fetch the relevant passage | 04:37 |
| genehacker | fortunately the scenario presented in that book isn't realistic | 04:38 |
| genehacker | if one civilization launches a relativistic attack, then other civilizations know they are threatening | 04:39 |
| splicer | on the ambush topic; when I was in the army we used bury tank mines on top of each other, they weigh 7kg as I remember... | 04:39 |
| splicer | ... on top of the mines one was supposed to put metal | 04:39 |
| splicer | it punches a hole in anything | 04:40 |
| genehacker | I doubt that it would really punch a hole in anything | 04:41 |
| fenn | http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html search for 'sri lanka tower' | 04:41 |
| genehacker | read that already | 04:41 |
| fenn | well why didnt you say so | 04:43 |
| genehacker | I haven't read the book | 04:44 |
| genehacker | I asked if it was in the 'library' | 04:44 |
| fenn | and what does that mean? | 04:44 |
| genehacker | sleep time | 04:44 |
| splicer | it's 15kg TNT in a hole propelling a metal plate... it does punch a hole in anything | 04:45 |
| fenn | but you have to be standing right on top of it | 04:46 |
| splicer | it's a mine so yes | 04:47 |
| fenn | why not just dig a hole in the ground :P | 04:47 |
| fenn | then you shoot them while they try to get the tank out, and you get a brand new tank | 04:47 |
| splicer | a better way is to cut trees about a meter up | 04:48 |
| splicer | mines are cheap and effective... and a fast way to close a road for the enemy | 04:49 |
| fenn | seems like something like this would work better (no need to be standing right on top of it) http://youtube.com/watch?v=IH0Hr1RrV-8 | 04:49 |
| fenn | fsvo better of course | 04:50 |
| genehacker | can it punch a hole in 5 meters of metal? | 04:50 |
| splicer | can you put tracks on that? | 04:52 |
| fenn | i'm not sure i believe some of those shape charge claims | 04:52 |
| fenn | splicer: tracks? | 04:52 |
| splicer | fenn: that was for genehacker | 04:52 |
| splicer | (fenn, that's for intercepting missiles I think) | 04:54 |
| fenn | yeah but why not use it as a mine? | 04:55 |
| splicer | you do that too... tripwire and AT4 | 04:55 |
| fenn | seems kinda silly in 21st century to be using tripwire against tanks | 04:56 |
| fenn | i mean how do you know it's actually a tank and not a mine-tripping robot? | 04:57 |
| splicer | keeping with the low tech topic... and 'ambush safe'... it just doesn't work, because there is just too much overkill in the mines as it is | 04:57 |
| splicer | the swedish invasion defence was based on mines | 04:58 |
| fenn | and nobody invaded sweden so that means it worked? | 04:58 |
| fenn | lol | 04:59 |
| splicer | see? | 05:00 |
| fenn | not really | 05:00 |
| fenn | i guess not being a target is about as low-tech as you can get | 05:01 |
| splicer | joke | 05:01 |
| fenn | well i'm sure some enterprising bastard will come up with a counteroffensive | 05:02 |
| fenn | "no threat too small to take seriously" seems to be DHS's motto | 05:03 |
| splicer | the beauty of tank mines are that they actually work.... they cost nothing, you can just litter the place with them... and they do kill anything that drives over them... and it's old.. reliable tech. | 05:04 |
| splicer | 15kg TNT in a hole | 05:04 |
| fenn | how come the tanks don't see them? | 05:05 |
| splicer | they are usually in a hurry | 05:05 |
| splicer | you train to set the fields up fast | 05:05 |
| fenn | i don't get it.. dont they map the whole place with satellites and UAV's etc | 05:06 |
| splicer | yeah.. they are starting to now | 05:06 |
| fenn | and you still never said why you couldn't deploy mine-tripping robots | 05:06 |
| fenn | hell you could just have a long stick on front of the tank with some kind of triggering device | 05:07 |
| splicer | that's an old idea... | 05:07 |
| splicer | so you put the mines in depth... so the trigger is in a mine in front and it sets of mines further behind | 05:08 |
| splicer | i don't know what's next.. i guess decoy fields and things like that | 05:09 |
| splicer | in my time the problem was artillery | 05:09 |
| splicer | the answer to that was sperading in small groups | 05:09 |
| splicer | (and dig in and hide) | 05:14 |
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| ybit | battlocde registration is open, i had initially planned on participating sometime in feb | 10:50 |
| ybit | http://battlecode.mit.edu/2010/registration | 10:50 |
| ybit | if anyone is interested in forming a team and as long it doesn't consume much of my time, i might be game | 10:50 |
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| kanzure | web.py doesn't distinguish very well between /package/lego/data/yaml and /package/lego/data/yaml .. er. i mean, right now it ignores extensions on the filenames, but if there's both "data" and "data.yaml" in the package, you're not going to be able to see "data.yaml" from the web view | 11:45 |
| kanzure | i think it would be confusing to show "data.yaml" through /package/lego/data/yaml but show "data" at /package/lego/data | 11:45 |
| kanzure | the solution is to show "data.yaml" at /package/lego/data.yaml and "data" at /package/lego/data/ but honestly i think it's cleaner to say /package/lego/data to refer to data.yaml | 11:46 |
| kanzure | (also, /package/lego/data.yaml/ (whatever that ends up being) should be the loaded page of parts, or something, and the 'yaml' view should use genshi syntax highlighting) | 11:47 |
| kanzure | setting up a mail server would be so much easier if everyone didn't blacklist you by default | 11:51 |
| ybit | Sorry, This got caught in my span box. | 12:07 |
| ybit | Someone else from SKDB also contacted me. It's a really really cool project. | 12:07 |
| ybit | But I think very different in may ways. | 12:07 |
| ybit | Adam Meyer | 12:07 |
| ybit | Industrial + Interaction Designer | 12:07 |
| ybit | http://www.adam-meyer.com | 12:07 |
| ybit | Adam: "Bildr is actually just focusing on people who work with physical computing or who sketch in hardware. But I belive that what works for them will in fact work well for many others. There isnt much about bildr that deals with manufacturing, or making anything that isn't code or electronics based." | 14:22 |
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| kanzure | i think adam is crazy | 15:31 |
| kanzure | " | 15:33 |
| kanzure | "In the OCC.KBE.Level2API you will find the work-in-progress module for | 15:33 |
| kanzure | the high-level ( read pythonic ) API. | 15:33 |
| kanzure | wasn't this what they were supposed to be doing | 15:37 |
| fenn | why is it in KBE? | 15:38 |
| fenn | pythonic != KBE | 15:38 |
| kanzure | what's in KBE? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | is KBE a part of OCC? | 15:59 |
| fenn | i dont think so | 16:01 |
| fenn | hmm too bad splicer left.. http://xkcd.com/652/ | 16:02 |
| ybit | he doesn't mention food, just a food jar. http://www.moonminer.com/Lunar_Industrial_Seed.html | 16:02 |
| kanzure | i like today's. | 16:02 |
| fenn | food is already self replicating | 16:03 |
| kanzure | ybit: i don't know why dietzler is doing all this "privately" | 16:03 |
| kanzure | he doesn't seem to have his stuff togethe | 16:03 |
| kanzure | *together | 16:03 |
| kanzure | so what's the deal? | 16:03 |
| kanzure | maybe he just doesn't know anyone interested in this | 16:03 |
| ybit | there's tons of stuff missing, at least he attempted, didn't know he was trying to do it privately, that's lame | 16:08 |
| ybit | i should be arriving to austin @ 10:50am on the third | 16:19 |
| ybit | if we don't crash and burn | 16:19 |
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| ybit | oi genehacker2 | 16:30 |
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| fenn | hmm idont reember anything like this | 16:45 |
| fenn | for f in Topo(theCylinder).faces(): | 16:45 |
| fenn | ## do_something_with_the_face() | 16:45 |
| fenn | that's certainly easier than theh TopExp crap | 16:45 |
| kanzure | ybit: genehacker is in the area and we can catch him if we swing by campus | 16:50 |
| kanzure | why did i suggest that. nevermind. | 16:51 |
| kanzure | also the mcmaster.com website is javascript bloatware | 16:52 |
| fenn | fo rizzle | 16:54 |
| fenn | used to be you couldn't even give someone a link to a product page | 16:54 |
| kanzure | i can't view a product page | 16:56 |
| kanzure | does mcmaster play nicely with konqueror? | 16:56 |
| kanzure | it keeps on refreshing | 16:57 |
| kanzure | totally unusable | 16:57 |
| fenn | works fine with 3.5 | 16:58 |
| kanzure | maybe it just hates me | 16:58 |
| kanzure | mom says angel investors post on craigslist, but i looked and i can't find evidence of this | 17:00 |
| fenn | that's ridiculous | 17:00 |
| kanzure | i thought so too, but she was very adamant about this | 17:00 |
| kanzure | adament? | 17:00 |
| fenn | 'free money, call 555-suckers' | 17:01 |
| kanzure | maybe the problem is i've been acting like this is hard :p | 17:01 |
| ybit | 00:45 < bkero> I can give anyone here IBM employee pricing on any Lenovo laptops. | 17:09 |
| ybit | bkero: is that still true? | 17:09 |
| fenn | wow pat rawlings has a hell of a lot of space paintings | 17:13 |
| bkero | ybit: yea, but you'll have to find the link to the IBM employee store, they moved it | 17:26 |
| ybit | paths.py uses geom.primitive collision detection? | 17:40 |
| ybit | i don't understand how it matches up two 'mating vectors' | 17:41 |
| ybit | 09:26 < fenn> sweep the volume of the added brick along the interface vector; boolean intersect with all the other bricks; if you get a volume back it must have collided with something | 17:43 |
| ybit | if this is the case, where are you specifying volume? | 17:44 |
| kanzure | the volume can be computed through opencascade as the "mass" | 17:45 |
| kanzure | it's not actually the 'mass' but that's the term occ uses | 17:45 |
| kanzure | anyway, it's a really really slow method | 17:45 |
| kanzure | boolean intersect takes 40sec on any model more geometrically complex than a prism | 17:46 |
| kanzure | mating vectors are matched up by a "control point" or "interface point" specified in the data.yaml files usually | 17:47 |
| kanzure | so you transform one vector into the coordinate frame specified by the other | 17:47 |
| kanzure | (one of them is "primary" or already in your assembly graph) | 17:47 |
| kanzure | er technically the mating vector isn't a single vector, it's two vectors making up a small coordinate frame. | 17:48 |
| kanzure | (the third vector can be deduced from the two given) | 17:49 |
| fenn | sweeps don't really work either | 17:56 |
| ybit | where is 'mass' specified in the api? | 18:52 |
| * ybit should be at phreaknic tonight, ohwells | 18:57 | |
| kanzure | ybit: search for Mass in geom.py | 19:45 |
| kanzure | actually it's the one file next to geom.py | 19:45 |
| ybit | thanks kanzure | 20:11 |
| ybit | as a modeler, narocad wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't based on .net | 20:11 |
| ybit | http://sourceforge.net/projects/narocad/ | 20:11 |
| ybit | oh, and if it was for linux | 20:12 |
| kanzure | so why is jelle making a call for *others* to do the work of the pythonocc project? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | i mean, what is he doing? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | wasn't that the whole point to begin with, and why do other people have to do it for him? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | i'm perfectly willing to help, but it's just weird | 20:14 |
| fenn | well it's probably easier for people to work on the API than some obscure SWIG stuff that takes a lot of expertise | 20:20 |
| fenn | ybit: what does narocad have that heekscad doesn't? (besides a shitty microsoft dependency) | 20:20 |
| ybit | nothing, it's just a not-so-bad cad modeler written in a terrible lang. | 20:24 |
| * ybit has been reading through logs | 20:24 | |
| fenn | i'm looking at the spec document, looks like they have figured out how to use a good bit of opencascade | 20:25 |
| * ybit thought occ was a csg modeler, what's with all this brep? | 20:25 | |
| ybit | -modeler | 20:25 |
| fenn | it's not true csg, but you can do csg operations | 20:25 |
| fenn | boolean operations actually | 20:25 |
| fenn | better than csg anyway i think | 20:26 |
| ybit | how so? | 20:26 |
| fenn | even if it's horrendously slow | 20:26 |
| fenn | because you can do arbitrary shapes | 20:26 |
| fenn | like an stl file | 20:26 |
| fenn | true csg uses planes and spheres and stuff | 20:27 |
| fenn | uh.. one is not better than the other, but i'd rather be able to import a shape and subtract/add to it, rather than some funky mathematical manifold | 20:27 |
| fenn | all right how the fuck did they do that screw thread helix | 20:29 |
| ybit | who? where? | 20:31 |
| fenn | http://narocad.com/doc/aplication%20design%20document.pdf page 12 | 20:32 |
| fenn | i wonder who is behind this | 20:34 |
| kanzure | the germans | 20:35 |
| fenn | what country's flag is blue lightblue and dark blue? :P | 20:39 |
| fenn | http://narocad.com/pics/p.gif | 20:39 |
| kanzure | evidence: http://narocad.com/pics/ | 20:41 |
| kanzure | "Die angeforderte Seite darf nicht angezeigt werden." | 20:42 |
| kanzure | how is that /not/ german | 20:42 |
| kanzure | anyway, you probably want http://narocad.blogspot.com/ | 20:43 |
| fenn | i think the dev is from UK (low confidence assertion) | 20:43 |
| fenn | aha madrid | 20:46 |
| fenn | i think this is the dev http://www.blogger.com/profile/05409605028353356569 | 20:46 |
| kanzure | Ciprian Mustiata? | 20:47 |
| fenn | http://narocad.blogspot.com/ | 20:47 |
| kanzure | yes that's the link i gave you | 20:49 |
| fenn | heh | 20:49 |
| fenn | well i found it in my roundabout way | 20:50 |
| kanzure | the power of google? | 20:50 |
| fenn | stalking his various internet handles | 20:50 |
| kanzure | i had his name in my paste buffer :( | 20:51 |
| * kanzure goes back to doing other stuff | 20:52 | |
| fenn | "And here comes the fun part: I am in a Microsoft Gold certified company. I am using of course Linux (Ubuntu). Our customer uses RedHat Linux, and a JEE stack (JBoss). At home I have another Ubuntu box. | 20:53 |
| genehacker2 | ugh | 20:57 |
| genehacker2 | this is annoying, apparently Alibre design, doesn't know what undo means | 20:58 |
| fenn | if you will want to see Naro under Linux, I recommend to you to use VirtualBox for now or help us to port the UI code to Qyoto and wrappers to C and C# bridges instead C++.NET. This could take around 2 months in developer time and can be done in two phases: first to run with Mono on Windows, second to port the UI to Qt. If you can help on this, we will see NaroCAD on Linux. | 20:59 |
| fenn | this is kinda interesting; draw is sort of like a cli to opencascade? http://narocad.blogspot.com/2009/09/draw-test-harness-quick-tutorial.html | 21:09 |
| kanzure | ha ha ha | 21:13 |
| kanzure | ansi allows you to download one "free standard" on their website | 21:14 |
| kanzure | by pointing to http://fileopen.ansi.org/FreeStandards.aspx?sku=ISO-number-here | 21:14 |
| kanzure | by craftily changing the ISO number, you can make them all "free" | 21:14 |
| kanzure | although i'm not so sure about the mapping between sku numbers and their filenames | 21:15 |
| kanzure | for instance, this should work: http://webstore.ansi.org/FreeStandards.aspx?sku=ISO+10042%2fCor1%3a2005&sdo=ISO&deptid=280&filename=ISO%2b10042-2005.pdf&name= | 21:15 |
| kanzure | this should also work: http://webstore.ansi.org/FreeStandards.aspx?sku=ISO+10042%2fCor1%3a2005&sdo=ISO&deptid=280&filename=ISO%2b10042-2005.pdf&name= | 21:15 |
| kanzure | sku=ISO 10042/Cor1:2005 filename=ISO-10042-2005.pdf ? | 21:16 |
| kanzure | http://fileopen.ansi.org/encservice/config.aspx | 21:17 |
| kanzure | http://fileopen.ansi.org/encservice/exclusion.txt | 21:17 |
| kanzure | haha "*.pdf" | 21:17 |
| kanzure | "vanilla owner password: panther" | 21:17 |
| fenn | how the hell do you find this stuff | 21:19 |
| kanzure | i find things | 21:19 |
| fenn | it doesnt seem to work | 21:21 |
| fenn | those are the same url btw | 21:21 |
| kanzure | does it say "download unavailable"? | 21:21 |
| fenn | there's a 'download file' button and it's grayed out | 21:22 |
| kanzure | does it say "transfer complete" above the button? | 21:22 |
| fenn | no | 21:22 |
| kanzure | browser issue.. it's a redirect anyway | 21:22 |
| kanzure | to something like this: http://fileopen.ansi.org/encservice/DeliveryManager.aspx?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 | 21:22 |
| fenn | yes it redirects there, which is the grayed out button | 21:23 |
| kanzure | oh hm. | 21:23 |
| fenn | what am i supposed to see? | 21:24 |
| kanzure | you click the button and it spits out a .pdf file | 21:24 |
| * fenn fires up the pig | 21:24 | |
| kanzure | that's not a very vegan thing to do to the poor pig | 21:25 |
| ybit | the ansi webstore links worked here | 21:26 |
| fenn | ok it works with ff | 21:26 |
| genehacker2 | FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK | 21:27 |
| genehacker2 | I used the wrong angle | 21:27 |
| * kanzure needs to figure out the mapping between sku and filename | 21:28 | |
| kanzure | http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/dencoder/ <- always handy | 21:32 |
| kanzure | hm the filenames seem to be random | 21:34 |
| kanzure | aha, not true | 21:40 |
| kanzure | so they are organized into groups | 21:41 |
| kanzure | hey aren't there export regulations on DOD documents? | 21:43 |
| kanzure | http://webstore.ansi.org/FindStandards.aspx?Action=displaydept&DeptID=3132&Acro=DOD&DpName=DOD | 21:43 |
| genehacker2 | I think so... | 21:43 |
| genehacker2 | oh well, life's not fun if you don't get on at least 5 federal watchlists | 21:44 |
| kanzure | (10:01:27 PM) ciprian.mustiata: The spec is not done by me, is done by the person that was the mastermind of the project | 22:00 |
| kanzure | (10:01:42 PM) ciprian.mustiata: I really don't think that he did them in OCC | 22:00 |
| ybit | eh? narocad's spec? | 22:03 |
| kanzure | yeah, i asked him how he did the helix | 22:04 |
| -!- ciplogic [n=opera@111.Red-88-30-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:04 | |
| kanzure | hello ciplogic | 22:04 |
| ciplogic | Hi Kanzure | 22:05 |
| kanzure | ybit, fenn, meet ciprian | 22:05 |
| ybit | btw, "Mass" and "mass" isn't located in geom.py | 22:05 |
| ciplogic | how are you guys!? | 22:05 |
| kanzure | ybit: it's in the file next to it | 22:05 |
| ybit | o hi ciplogic :) | 22:05 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/geom/volume_collision.py | 22:05 |
| ybit | we were just talking about narocad :) | 22:05 |
| ciplogic | I'm glad then I met you | 22:06 |
| ybit | so how comes the conversion to linux ;) | 22:06 |
| ciplogic | The Linux is a half of story | 22:06 |
| ciplogic | Because is .NET based and we are only two devels | 22:06 |
| ybit | si si, i saw that | 22:06 |
| ciplogic | I'm not the first develioper, I still consider bxtrx as being the first, but I'm the close second ;) | 22:07 |
| ciplogic | *developer | 22:07 |
| ybit | we have quite a few devs in this channel from various projects | 22:07 |
| ciplogic | Ok, so regarding Linux, I did tried, the bad thing is this: the interface is the least problem | 22:07 |
| ciplogic | The biggest one is wrappers to be made mono aware | 22:07 |
| kanzure | honestly i have worked with .net and prefer native C++ libraries | 22:08 |
| ciplogic | The interface can be iterated via reflection and created the .ui files for qt | 22:08 |
| kanzure | heekscad is one example | 22:08 |
| kanzure | have you seen heekscad yet? | 22:08 |
| ciplogic | Yes, of course | 22:08 |
| ciplogic | C++ is just great until you want fast prototyping | 22:08 |
| ciplogic | and fast design/debug phase | 22:09 |
| kanzure | yeah | 22:09 |
| kanzure | we've been using python for skdb | 22:09 |
| ciplogic | I think I know why | 22:09 |
| ciplogic | Anyone hates long compiling times | 22:09 |
| ciplogic | NaroCAD so far it has around 800 (small) classes | 22:09 |
| kanzure | clean code is one priority i think.. not making a mess of things like OCC has | 22:10 |
| ciplogic | Yes | 22:10 |
| ciplogic | Sometimes Naro is lacking on this respect | 22:10 |
| ciplogic | Regarding Naro also we had (and can be put back) IronPython | 22:11 |
| ciplogic | So if just Python is the problem, can be fixed | 22:11 |
| ciplogic | The single problem is just to make wrappers to be mono aware | 22:11 |
| ybit | the only two people i know who use windows in here are genehacker2 and katsmeow-afk | 22:12 |
| ybit | ..aside from you ciplogic | 22:12 |
| ciplogic | I use Linux in my free time | 22:12 |
| ciplogic | I have access to OS X too :) | 22:12 |
| ybit | oh yeah, that's right, there was mention of ubuntu earlier | 22:12 |
| ciplogic | Honestly, in the past when Naro was in pre-alpha stage we tried to do it with Qt | 22:13 |
| * ybit is about to fall asleep, think i'll dive into volume_collision.py tomorrow. kanzure, fenn, is there anything else i might want to look at? | 22:14 | |
| ciplogic | But we considered that the downsides are much bigger than the ups | 22:14 |
| ybit | such as? | 22:14 |
| kanzure | ybit: core/interface.py maybe for assembly graph stuff that isn't-quite-working | 22:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | well, windose runs with no learning curve, i want to write programs to do stuff, not spend all my time learning linux | 22:14 |
| ciplogic | Mostly the compiling time and the C# language | 22:14 |
| ciplogic | Which arguable is quite friendly | 22:15 |
| ybit | just to be clear, there's a learning curve for all OSs | 22:15 |
| ciplogic | and don't get as messy as sometimes as C++ | 22:15 |
| kanzure | how is locking you into mono friendly? | 22:15 |
| kanzure | i have a lab professor who wrote his entire career's work in .NET basically, and now it's stuck there | 22:15 |
| kanzure | :( | 22:15 |
| ciplogic | I think there are two views: one to make software done and other that talk politics | 22:16 |
| kanzure | sure | 22:16 |
| kanzure | well hopefully we can do better than OCC :) | 22:16 |
| kanzure | i think that's a good standard to go by | 22:16 |
| ybit | :P | 22:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, windoes doesn't care where your executeable is, or tell you there's no difftween c: and d:, etc | 22:16 |
| ciplogic | Really, Mono locks you in | 22:17 |
| kanzure | yeah you can't run it without mono | 22:17 |
| ciplogic | I hope that Qt locks me in to be such a great thing that to not look to .NET when we start Naro | 22:17 |
| ybit | windows also doesn't allow you to tinker with its core libs, so, whatever floats your boat, so to say | 22:17 |
| ciplogic | Or Java, or etc. | 22:17 |
| kanzure | sorry i don't understand | 22:17 |
| kanzure | you don't have to use qt. there's gtk and others.. is that what you mean? | 22:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | ybit, i do not want to tinker with the OS, i have other code i wanna be working on :-) | 22:17 |
| ciplogic | No: I said the lockin is sometimes by merits | 22:18 |
| ciplogic | If Java brings everything at the tip of my finger, I will use Java | 22:18 |
| ciplogic | Honestly, who use a Linux computer with zero proprierary things in it | 22:19 |
| ciplogic | Like no nvidia or ati driver | 22:19 |
| ciplogic | or no wifi driver | 22:19 |
| kanzure | it's hard to find a computer without nvidia | 22:19 |
| ybit | richard stallman ;) | 22:19 |
| ciplogic | To not say that your CPU is pattented | 22:19 |
| ciplogic | *patented | 22:19 |
| kanzure | ciplogic: actually there's opencores.org for open hardware CPUs | 22:19 |
| ciplogic | Who use them? :) | 22:19 |
| katsmeow-afk | the latest M$ "autoupdates" include an nvidia driver that stuffs up severalputers here | 22:19 |
| kanzure | ciplogic: arduino | 22:19 |
| ciplogic | Ok, so almost no one :) | 22:20 |
| ciplogic | There can be once an unknown patent | 22:20 |
| kanzure | sorry what? | 22:20 |
| ciplogic | The single problem is that almost every 1000 lines may break a patent | 22:20 |
| kanzure | in which country | 22:20 |
| ciplogic | I live in EU | 22:21 |
| ciplogic | (Spain to be more precise) | 22:21 |
| ybit | (madrid to be even more precise) | 22:21 |
| ciplogic | :D | 22:21 |
| ybit | we like to stalk around here :) | 22:21 |
| katsmeow-afk | someone made a new cpu in here?! | 22:21 |
| kanzure | what? | 22:21 |
| ciplogic | No, my point is that no one use pure PC | 22:21 |
| * ybit wouldn't mind living in a coruna, espana | 22:21 | |
| genehacker2 | the latest winblows update killed firefox | 22:21 |
| -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 22:21 | |
| kanzure | ciplogic: only because the pieces aren't there yet | 22:22 |
| genehacker2 | I wonder if they're trying to get revenge | 22:22 |
| ciplogic | Ok, we talk about real life | 22:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | genehacker2, i bet it's that nvidia driver | 22:22 |
| kanzure | ciplogic: sorry i was talking about a fake world | 22:22 |
| ciplogic | I am not Miguel's brother, but I use Flash on Linux when I use it | 22:22 |
| genehacker2 | firefox works | 22:22 |
| katsmeow-afk | i have 2 puters that won't boot now | 22:22 |
| genehacker2 | it can't connect to the internet | 22:22 |
| ciplogic | Also I install NVidia drivers | 22:22 |
| ciplogic | I'm a sane person | 22:22 |
| ciplogic | I hope you too | 22:23 |
| kanzure | do you have an alternative? | 22:23 |
| ciplogic | No, there is none | 22:23 |
| kanzure | doomed forever | 22:23 |
| * katsmeow-afk is pondering the alternative to sanity | 22:23 | |
| ciplogic | When you talk about real life, you talk about cars that are patented | 22:23 |
| ciplogic | Think that you listen music on radio | 22:23 |
| ciplogic | or see a clip on youtube | 22:23 |
| ciplogic | there is a big chance to be copyrighted | 22:23 |
| ybit | or scanning electron microscopes which costs hundreds of thousands :\ | 22:23 |
| ciplogic | Why not stop listening music | 22:24 |
| ciplogic | I agree that GPL (3) applies on compilers as GCC is | 22:24 |
| genehacker2 | the alternative to sanity is madness, I have some booklets promoting it, would you like to read them? | 22:24 |
| ciplogic | but cannot apply completely all over the world | 22:24 |
| ciplogic | Why not | 22:24 |
| ciplogic | please send them to email ( ciprian.mustiata@yahoo.com ) | 22:25 |
| ciplogic | Who use FF may consider that FF may break something | 22:25 |
| ciplogic | Or OpenOffice | 22:25 |
| ciplogic | Or anyway, I am not anyway encouraging you to use closed source | 22:26 |
| katsmeow-afk | genehacker2, no thanks, humans who think science is majoc, also believe logical thought is heresy and madness | 22:26 |
| ciplogic | But I recommend you to use closed source if this is the best way to contribute for your freedom and to do it in a 1/2 of time | 22:26 |
| ciplogic | (where applies) | 22:27 |
| katsmeow-afk | majic | 22:27 |
| genehacker2 | http://rubbersuitstudios.com/ptcct.htm | 22:27 |
| genehacker2 | it's a joke of course | 22:27 |
| genehacker2 | no one in there right mind would actually go mad on purpose | 22:27 |
| fenn | holy crap where did you come from | 22:28 |
| ciplogic | fenn: who? | 22:29 |
| ciplogic | (I just looked to your project, and is interesting) | 22:29 |
| ybit | fenn, i think ciplogic came from a mother's womb if i'm not mistaking | 22:30 |
| kanzure | no he came from an alien infested world (earth is it?) | 22:30 |
| ciplogic | Question: OCC is proprietary or not? or Python? | 22:31 |
| ybit | no, madrid | 22:31 |
| ybit | completely different | 22:31 |
| ciplogic | Python as far as I know, is mastered by Google | 22:31 |
| ciplogic | OCC is free only in public version | 22:31 |
| kanzure | http://python.org/ | 22:31 |
| ciplogic | that do not include bug fixes | 22:31 |
| ybit | ciplogic: python is free open source software, aka non-proprietary | 22:32 |
| ybit | occ has a funny license | 22:32 |
| kanzure | OCC has a weird custom license | 22:32 |
| genehacker2 | also fenn, I finished manna | 22:32 |
| genehacker2 | it was an interesting read | 22:32 |
| ybit | genehacker2: good stuff, right? | 22:32 |
| fenn | mono has a problem in that you have to run everything in the .NET sandbox | 22:33 |
| ciplogic | What!? | 22:33 |
| genehacker2 | yeah, not quite sure about the whole no one is anonymous thing | 22:33 |
| fenn | i think this is why you can't just import ironpython as a regular python module | 22:33 |
| fenn | i may be mixing things up | 22:34 |
| * ybit takes his lego halloween costume off and readies for bed | 22:34 | |
| fenn | genehacker2: i'm looking for full text of 'the transparent society' right now | 22:34 |
| ciplogic | IronPython as far as I know it can import the Python modules | 22:34 |
| ciplogic | But may not be so interesting | 22:34 |
| kanzure | no the other way around | 22:34 |
| fenn | ybit: pics or gtfo | 22:34 |
| ciplogic | it also can use the .NET classes | 22:34 |
| kanzure | that's using ironpython | 22:34 |
| ciplogic | (but without generics as far as I used it) | 22:34 |
| kanzure | we're talking about using ironpython as a module | 22:35 |
| kanzure | like "import ironpython" | 22:35 |
| ciplogic | Nope :) | 22:35 |
| ciplogic | Of course not :) | 22:35 |
| fenn | why 'of course'? | 22:35 |
| ciplogic | Because is based on DLR | 22:35 |
| ciplogic | Which is a dynamic language kernel | 22:35 |
| ciplogic | on top of .NET | 22:35 |
| kanzure | i haven't heard this | 22:36 |
| fenn | sure you did, from me | 22:36 |
| ciplogic | DLR = Dynamic Language Runtime | 22:36 |
| katsmeow-afk | want us to repeat it? | 22:36 |
| ciplogic | With DLR you can create abstract syntax trees | 22:36 |
| ciplogic | and a rule to compile them | 22:36 |
| ciplogic | and it creates IL (.NET / mono bytecodes) | 22:36 |
| ciplogic | and .NET it simply JIT them | 22:36 |
| ciplogic | IronPython from version 2.0 is based on DLR | 22:37 |
| fenn | well i dont care so much about using DLR as just accessing .dll's | 22:37 |
| fenn | but i guess it needs DLR to translate from python to .NET idioms? | 22:37 |
| ciplogic | IPy transalates to abstract syntax tree and via DLR gets to .NET idioms | 22:38 |
| ciplogic | In the past IronPython creates directly IL code and uses Reflection.Emit method | 22:38 |
| ciplogic | that gets bytecode (IL) and it JIT it | 22:39 |
| katsmeow-afk | is there any rule of thumb about esoteric risc cpu design and instruction bitwidth? | 22:39 |
| fenn | well ciplogic i am impressed with how far you've come, it's too bad you had to use .NET | 22:41 |
| genehacker2 | kanzure want the cad file for a gear for a printable stepper motor? | 22:42 |
| kanzure | sure why not | 22:42 |
| * fenn has a terrifying thought.. what if campbell used narocad's c# bindings in graphsynth | 22:42 | |
| ciplogic | :P | 22:43 |
| kanzure | hm.. http://63.241.103.8/ | 22:43 |
| kanzure | wonder what this is | 22:43 |
| genehacker2 | now I have to design the stator gear | 22:44 |
| kanzure | oooh http://63.241.103.11/tiki-index.php | 22:44 |
| kanzure | ciplogic: yeah because of lockin | 22:46 |
| ciplogic | kanzure: ok, OCC is lockin as is the single OSS kernel :) | 22:47 |
| kanzure | no, it exports to STEP/IGES | 22:48 |
| kanzure | http://tc229wiki/tiki-page.php?pageName=ANSI_Disclaimer | 22:48 |
| kanzure | hm.. stupid network-only addresses | 22:48 |
| kanzure | "search engine for standards provided by ANSI" http://63.241.103.20/ | 22:49 |
| kanzure | haha what? http://63.241.103.24/BSR/default.asp 'WEB BSR-8/108 FORM: STANDARDS ACTION PUBLIC REVIEW REQUEST ' | 22:50 |
| ybit | genehacker2: send it my way as well: heathmatlock@gmail.com | 22:50 |
| fenn | ciplogic: wildcat-cad is a good start.. nothing besides OCC can read STEP though.. | 22:50 |
| ciplogic | fenn: wirdcat-cad is a dead project | 22:51 |
| ciplogic | *wild | 22:51 |
| fenn | already? | 22:51 |
| fenn | aww | 22:51 |
| ciplogic | When you will see updates newer than 1 year, send me an email :) | 22:51 |
| fenn | i really hate OCC :) | 22:51 |
| fenn | i wish someone would chop out all the fat | 22:52 |
| kanzure | wowza http://63.241.103.40/ homeland security standards db | 22:56 |
| genehacker2 | uh oh | 22:59 |
| fenn | cool ventus is creative commons: http://www.kschroeder.com/Ventus/ | 23:01 |
| fenn | gah | 23:01 |
| fenn | http://www.kschroeder.com/my-books/ventus/filez/ventus-downloads-page | 23:02 |
| genehacker2 | this isn't illegal is it? | 23:02 |
| ybit | ooh, aah | 23:02 |
| * ybit likes bpython | 23:02 | |
| genehacker2 | argh, I made the gear the wrong size and it doesn't look very printable... | 23:03 |
| fenn | genehacker2: are you still doing the cycloidal gears? | 23:09 |
| genehacker2 | no | 23:10 |
| genehacker2 | I finally figured out that weird profile | 23:10 |
| genehacker2 | I'm using a composite involute profile | 23:10 |
| genehacker2 | the one with cycloids on the end of involutes | 23:11 |
| genehacker2 | though now that I look at it the cycloidal profile might be more printable | 23:11 |
| fenn | certainly | 23:11 |
| fenn | easy to cut out with an endmill too | 23:12 |
| genehacker2 | so I need to figure out how to make that profile work with a 1 tooth difference | 23:13 |
| genehacker2 | also I wonder which profile wears down less | 23:13 |
| genehacker2 | now how do I send the file I have to skdb? | 23:14 |
| fenn | i bet you can just scale one of them by +-1% | 23:14 |
| genehacker2 | I'm worried about wear fenn | 23:15 |
| fenn | you'd have to make a new package | 23:15 |
| genehacker2 | ok then, I'll upload it to thingiverse | 23:15 |
| fenn | that works too | 23:16 |
| fenn | how are you making the profile? | 23:16 |
| genehacker2 | anyway the reason I'm worried about wear is this, what's the point of having a printable gear if it wears faster than it takes to make itself and more | 23:16 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.cartertools.com/involute.html | 23:17 |
| genehacker2 | by using cad software | 23:17 |
| fenn | that's no fun | 23:17 |
| fenn | ugh did you really do all that? most cad software has gear profiles built in | 23:18 |
| genehacker2 | I'd love to make a script that can make any composite involute gear I want, but I can't figure out why some of the math in the paper is giving me negative values for the radii of the arcs on the ends of the involutes | 23:19 |
| genehacker2 | unfortunately the software I have doesn't do that | 23:19 |
| fenn | alibre? | 23:20 |
| genehacker2 | yeah | 23:20 |
| fenn | i should try that out some time | 23:20 |
| fenn | there are gear scripts for blender | 23:21 |
| genehacker2 | you have to be kidding me? | 23:21 |
| fenn | what | 23:21 |
| fenn | i think inkscape too | 23:22 |
| genehacker2 | can blender generate just an involute curve then let me find points of tangency to the involute? | 23:22 |
| fenn | um, i don't know my way around their API enough to say | 23:22 |
| * genehacker2 achieves a FACEPALM COMBO | 23:22 | |
| genehacker2 | anyway I'm not trying to generate gears, I'm trying to generate gears with an obscure gear profile | 23:23 |
| genehacker2 | well I think I need to figure out blender then | 23:25 |
| genehacker2 | when did blender become a cad tool? | 23:25 |
| fenn | it didn't | 23:25 |
| fenn | there were several attempts which eventually gave up | 23:26 |
| genehacker2 | oh dear | 23:29 |
| genehacker2 | people still attempt to use it to design things though, as in real things like reprap parts | 23:29 |
| fenn | sure it's quite powerful | 23:30 |
| kanzure | http://narocam.com/ | 23:30 |
| fenn | some things would be really hard to do with a typical cad program | 23:30 |
| genehacker2 | like? | 23:31 |
| kanzure | big fat pink bunnies | 23:31 |
| fenn | anything involving deformations for instance | 23:31 |
| fenn | or that weird stuff bathsheba grossman does | 23:31 |
| genehacker2 | yeah those are legitamate uses of stuff like that | 23:31 |
| genehacker2 | but PARTS, you must be crazy! | 23:31 |
| fenn | some people like funky shaped parts | 23:32 |
| fenn | narocam.com just redirects to narocad | 23:33 |
| genehacker2 | I'm not talking about funky shaped parts | 23:33 |
| genehacker2 | oh well | 23:33 |
| genehacker2 | not really my problem | 23:33 |
| genehacker2 | anyway did you every figure out how to get SVG files to import into heekscad or something and not turn out all blocky? | 23:34 |
| fenn | it's not easy to specify an exact dimension in blender | 23:34 |
| fenn | are you using an old version of heekscad? | 23:35 |
| fenn | bezier curves are somewhat recent | 23:35 |
| genehacker2 | I'm talking about the what happened awhile back so yes | 23:36 |
| fenn | procedure for making this image http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/fenn/pngs/cycloidal_gear.png | 23:36 |
| genehacker2 | so it works now correct? | 23:37 |
| fenn | run cycloidal.py, import to inkscape, do 'simplify', save as plain .svg, import in heekscad, extrude | 23:37 |
| genehacker2 | I think I need to learn python | 23:37 |
| kanzure | the quickest way to learn python is to type python at the terminal and start mashing buttons | 23:38 |
| fenn | i liked 'instant python' | 23:38 |
| kanzure | is that a cooking recipe? | 23:39 |
| fenn | http://hetland.org/writing/instant-python.html | 23:39 |
| kanzure | achim.weiss@1und1.de | 23:39 |
| fenn | apparently achim is a dev too | 23:39 |
| fenn | kanzure: you'd miss out on a lot of neat stuff if you just poked around with bpython | 23:40 |
| kanzure | huh? i play with ipython a lolt | 23:40 |
| kanzure | *lot | 23:40 |
| fenn | i mean language features, like list slices or generators or whatever | 23:41 |
| kanzure | bpython does list slices | 23:41 |
| kanzure | or i mean it allows it | 23:41 |
| kanzure | er.. what? | 23:41 |
| fenn | but you have to know they exist | 23:41 |
| kanzure | and i happen to know they exist | 23:41 |
| fenn | well that's good for you, but no good for learning | 23:41 |
| fenn | *bonk* | 23:41 |
| kanzure | be quite while i learn you good | 23:41 |
| genehacker2 | http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/22/computopia-a-circa-1.html | 23:43 |
| genehacker2 | pic related | 23:44 |
| ciplogic | good night and bye all | 23:44 |
| -!- ciplogic [n=opera@111.Red-88-30-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #hplusroadmap [] | 23:44 | |
| genehacker2 | http://io9.com/5192678/texas-officially-makes-the-universe-ageless | 23:51 |
| genehacker2 | uh oh not again | 23:52 |
| fenn | not 3000 years? | 23:52 |
| fenn | or was it 5000 | 23:52 |
| genehacker2 | oh man this reminds me of test question I once had on the texas state wide test | 23:54 |
| fenn | 'how old is the universe'? | 23:54 |
| fenn | a) 3000 years, b) 5000 years, c) 12 billion years, d) none of the above | 23:55 |
| genehacker2 | it was over evolution and it asked a question about a species of squirrel branching off 10,000 years ago | 23:55 |
| genehacker2 | and that's what it takes to get science standards here in texas | 23:57 |
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