| --- Day changed Mon Nov 16 2009 | ||
| fenn | wow... i just watched "zeitgeist the movie" | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| genehacker | and? | 00:01 |
| genehacker | how was it? | 00:01 |
| fenn | i want to start handing it out on street corners | 00:01 |
| ybit | ah, it's out? i was wanting to watch that as well | 00:04 |
| genehacker | really? that good | 00:04 |
| ybit | probably one of the few films i care to watch, i really can't think of another | 00:04 |
| genehacker | you can't hand out a movie at street corners economically | 00:04 |
| genehacker | best to hand out papers directing people toward it online | 00:04 |
| fenn | you can get free DVD-R's with rebate deals | 00:05 |
| fenn | i think a person is more likely to watch a dvd you hand to them than to look up some URL online | 00:05 |
| fenn | i should tell people to watch it with their family on thanksgiving | 00:06 |
| genehacker | FREE CHARLIE BROWN THANKSGIVING SPECIAL WATCH WITH YOUR FAMILY ON THANKSGIVING! | 00:07 |
| ybit | oh, hah, i've already watched both | 00:07 |
| ybit | i was thinking it was going to be as jacque mentioned in one interview where he said it was to show a family in the future, how well things work for them in the venus project, and then while they are learning about the past, it flips back to present day and juxtaposes the two time periods | 00:09 |
| genehacker | now how do we get there? | 00:11 |
| fenn | yeah that's what i expected.. sort of disappointed it wasnt, but happy with what it was anyway | 00:12 |
| genehacker | so it doesn't propose anyway to get there? | 00:13 |
| fenn | i havent watched 'addendum' yet so i dont know what it's about | 00:13 |
| fenn | jacque fresco's idea is basically a do-ocracy based around robotics and things like SKDB | 00:14 |
| genehacker | so we're headed in the right direction with SKDB | 00:15 |
| ybit | katsmeow-afk: i looked at seasteading.org today, but i still don't know all the details, all i know is that they plan on setting up a family out there in less than 2 years | 00:16 |
| ybit | there being the sea somewhere | 00:16 |
| ybit | i didn't see where the money was going though | 00:16 |
| ybit | so far peter has raised about $20k, you can't consider the $500k that he himself put into the funds | 00:17 |
| ybit | can't say i'd want to on their seasteaded island nation, i'd much prefer my own or the #hplusroadmap nation | 00:18 |
| ybit | or a venus project seastead | 00:19 |
| ybit | one which doesn't deal with money | 00:20 |
| ybit | and isn't out to promote competition | 00:20 |
| fenn | yeah libertarianism doesn't really solve anything.. it's basically the religion of the ruling class already anyway | 00:20 |
| genehacker | we need the robots first | 00:21 |
| fenn | which 'we'? | 00:21 |
| ybit | kanzure: give us an update if you get a chance | 00:45 |
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| fenn | ybit: the startup workshop sounded like mostly bullshit from what i heard | 01:01 |
| ybit | i don't understand how they didn't understand the importance of getting the synthesis (and sequencing) prices further down, and hwo could they miss the large profits to be had from it o.O | 01:05 |
| ybit | maybe my large isn't large enough though | 01:06 |
| ybit | +perception of | 01:11 |
| ybit | yep, time for bed | 01:11 |
| wrldpc2 | http://www.seasteading.org + http://www.boeing.com/special/sea-launch/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Launch | 01:40 |
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| rmond | Hackathon this weekend WOOOOOOOOOO! http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Synchronous_Hackathon | 10:20 |
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| kanzure | http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm | 10:51 |
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| kanzure | hello zancas | 13:04 |
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| kanzure | hey bbacso | 13:15 |
| zancas | howdy | 13:47 |
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| kanzure | hey branstrom | 15:03 |
| branstrom | hiya | 15:03 |
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| genehacker | what are communications people doing in here? | 15:47 |
| genehacker | what are communications people doing in here? | 15:47 |
| genehacker | what are business school people doing in here? | 15:47 |
| genehacker | we don't see many of them in here | 15:50 |
| kanzure | anil is a programmer | 16:06 |
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| silverman | I heard there was world-taking-over in this room. | 16:10 |
| ybit | heh, you heard right, we do it every night, isn't that right pinky? | 16:11 |
| ybit | silverman: question for ya, how did bryan convince you to come in here? i've seen a bunch of utexas people join today | 16:12 |
| kanzure | narf | 16:12 |
| silverman | He emailed everyone who was at 3DS this weekend. | 16:12 |
| kanzure | silverman: sometime you should stop by the 4th floor, we have a lab presence there :) | 16:13 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb | 16:13 |
| silverman | Is that the madlab? | 16:13 |
| kanzure | (that's the lab wiki) | 16:13 |
| silverman | My office is on 3. | 16:13 |
| kanzure | yeah | 16:13 |
| kanzure | i'm not there at the moment, i'm supposed to be sleeping right now | 16:14 |
| silverman | I wouldn't mind sleeping, too. Coffee time draws nigh. | 16:14 |
| silverman | Usually when I pass the madlab there's just one or two people in there. | 16:14 |
| kanzure | austin talley, probably | 16:15 |
| kanzure | or pradeep(he does mechanisms/kinematics) | 16:15 |
| silverman | I know Talley but not Pradeep. | 16:15 |
| kanzure | so, i don't think we talked much about what you do at etc | 16:19 |
| silverman | I work for Beaman on fuel cell manufacturing. | 16:20 |
| silverman | Modeling and control. | 16:20 |
| kanzure | neat | 16:21 |
| silverman | And I like to tinker. | 16:21 |
| kanzure | right now madlb/adl mostly has models of screws and legos because of skdb (the main project in here of sorts) | 16:21 |
| silverman | Yeah I was noticing a lego-centrism. | 16:21 |
| kanzure | it's hard finding ISO docs on standard machine elements.. UT doesn't have access to them | 16:21 |
| silverman | What kind of machine elements? | 16:21 |
| kanzure | all of them :( | 16:22 |
| kanzure | believe me, if we had documentation, we'd totally do stuff that "isn't legos" | 16:22 |
| silverman | We have a subset of the ISO documents. | 16:22 |
| kanzure | woah | 16:22 |
| kanzure | uh, how big is a subset? | 16:22 |
| silverman | Let me find out. | 16:22 |
| kanzure | also i'm lagging overhere because i'm uploading a youtube video. please excuse tyops | 16:23 |
| silverman | We used to have them and now we don't. | 16:24 |
| kanzure | blah | 16:24 |
| kanzure | the library doesn't have access | 16:24 |
| silverman | I remember my friend asking for one and he gave me the wrong number and it was about how to milk cows or something. | 16:24 |
| kanzure | hahah | 16:24 |
| kanzure | cow fetish :) | 16:24 |
| silverman | And are all the people in this room madlab related? | 16:27 |
| kanzure | no, not at all | 16:27 |
| silverman | They're just interested in protons or something. | 16:27 |
| kanzure | fenn might be, but that's only because he moved down here to austin after i convinced him that i had this 400sqft manufacturing facility / shop thingy | 16:28 |
| kanzure | er, 4000 | 16:28 |
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| silverman | What facility is that? | 16:28 |
| kanzure | down on congress and ben white | 16:28 |
| ybit | silverman: i'm this guy: http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Heath_Matlock | 16:28 |
| kanzure | it's sort of a hackerspace that still needs some help getting up and running. | 16:28 |
| ybit | who is involved in that space btw? | 16:29 |
| kanzure | just les filip at this point | 16:29 |
| ybit | are there any tools there? i thought it was going by the wayside | 16:29 |
| kanzure | yeah there were lots of tools | 16:29 |
| kanzure | i gave youu a list | 16:29 |
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| ybit | orly, what was the name of that list? | 16:30 |
| kanzure | it's in skdb | 16:31 |
| kanzure | but the filename was convoluted | 16:31 |
| kanzure | it probably has a date in it | 16:31 |
| kanzure | like 2008-03 or something :p | 16:31 |
| kanzure | er, 2009-03 | 16:31 |
| ybit | sweet, i'll check it out, i'm on the phone now with jennifer from biobasic.. | 16:32 |
| kanzure | maybe you should have her call me instead? | 16:33 |
| silverman | I probably haven't used IRC since 2000. | 16:33 |
| silverman | And so I'm embarrassed that I | 16:33 |
| silverman | just figured out how pms look in this client. | 16:33 |
| silverman | Oops. | 16:33 |
| kanzure | what is pms? | 16:33 |
| silverman | Like a message just to me. | 16:33 |
| kanzure | don't feel bad. when it was 2000, i was only 10 and learning to read, or something | 16:34 |
| silverman | Anyway, first time with this client. | 16:34 |
| silverman | Ha | 16:34 |
| silverman | So, a hackerspace. I thought it was strange we didn't have one in Austin. | 16:35 |
| kanzure | :) | 16:35 |
| silverman | So what's holding you back? | 16:35 |
| kanzure | we have a woodworking shop of some sorts, but it's very commercial-focused | 16:35 |
| kanzure | the problem with the one on [Bthe poroblem with the one on congress/ben-white is that the other guy involved in the project (footing the bills right now) didn't want to deal with government grants to help fund it | 16:35 |
| kanzure | i mean, not just deal, but not be associated with getting grants at all | 16:36 |
| silverman | The woodshop makes things for sale? | 16:36 |
| ybit | kanzure: hows about you call her? it will either be ashlee fan or jennifer __ from marketing 905.474.4493 | 16:36 |
| kanzure | nah, they have people rent out little rooms for storage or something, and the people make stuff and sell stuff individually to help pay for their bills to be involved with the shop overall | 16:36 |
| silverman | And, are existing, famous hackerspaces funded by the gummint? | 16:37 |
| kanzure | ybit: can you tell them to expect a call from me, or whether they want a call or not? etc. | 16:37 |
| ybit | ashelee is the assistant, jennifer is the vice president | 16:37 |
| kanzure | ah neat | 16:37 |
| ybit | yeah, i'll let them know they should expect a call from you tomorrow afternoon | 16:37 |
| kanzure | silverman: fablabs are typically funded by academic grants, yes. fablabs are awesome, if you haven't heard of them you're missing out | 16:37 |
| ybit | or morning, which is good for you? | 16:37 |
| kanzure | uh, i have no idea what my sleep schedule is anymore | 16:37 |
| kanzure | let's say afternoon | 16:37 |
| ybit | alright | 16:37 |
| kanzure | i have a meeting from 4 to 5 with campbell about VOICED, so probaly before 4 | 16:38 |
| kanzure | *porbably | 16:38 |
| kanzure | **probably | 16:38 |
| kanzure | silverman: the basic idea of a fablab is that you put as much manufacturing capacity into as small a space as possible (within safety limits of course) | 16:38 |
| silverman | I think I've seen photos, but never been to one. | 16:39 |
| kanzure | and then let people just show up and use the tools to work on cool projects | 16:39 |
| silverman | And I've also never heard one called a fablab. | 16:39 |
| kanzure | me too | 16:39 |
| silverman | Would you count noisebridge as a fablab? | 16:39 |
| kanzure | ah, well there's also a "techshop" but that's way more commercial and insane (gym business model) | 16:39 |
| kanzure | not quite, noisebridge is a hackerspace IIRC | 16:39 |
| kanzure | er | 16:39 |
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| kanzure | so the difference, as far as i can tell, is that a fablab is from neil gershenfeld | 16:39 |
| silverman | But hackerspaces as I understand it also often have laser cutters and shit. | 16:39 |
| kanzure | and a hackerspace is just this LED knitting circle | 16:40 |
| silverman | Maybe it's just semantic. | 16:40 |
| kanzure | oh really? | 16:40 |
| kanzure | most hack | 16:40 |
| kanzure | erspaces that i've heard about just have bottles of glue and paint | 16:40 |
| silverman | Aha. | 16:40 |
| kanzure | yeah it's just semantic | 16:40 |
| kanzure | my point is, i wan | 16:40 |
| kanzure | t to be fucking awesome | 16:40 |
| silverman | LED knitting circle is a good way to put it. | 16:40 |
| kanzure | also my lag is killing me at this point :( | 16:40 |
| kanzure | inventory of a typical fablab: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/BOMs/comparison/ | 16:41 |
| silverman | It'll be challenging for it to surpass the machine shop+SLS+mechatronics we have here. | 16:41 |
| kanzure | only students can use the shops. | 16:41 |
| kanzure | i mean, if you're not associated with the uni, you're screwed | 16:41 |
| silverman | Right. But we are. | 16:41 |
| kanzure | of a hacerkspace | 16:41 |
| kanzure | er, | 16:41 |
| kanzure | i also don't get the vibe of a hackerspace | 16:42 |
| silverman | You're interested in the general public using your thing? | 16:42 |
| ybit | 2009-03 is nowhere to be found in the skdb directories | 16:42 |
| silverman | I concur. | 16:42 |
| * ybit is off to grub on chinese food | 16:42 | |
| kanzure | within reason. i want to be able to get people that are awesome and help them make cool stuff | 16:42 |
| kanzure | i mean, a weekly "open night" would be pretty fun | 16:42 |
| kanzure | that's how most hackerspaces do it apparently. i don't know about the scheduling issues there | 16:43 |
| silverman | Yeah I think this is a good idea. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | so | 16:43 |
| silverman | I have a friend who used to go to noisebridge. | 16:43 |
| kanzure | a few months ago i was called up by someone named alex lightman up in LA | 16:43 |
| kanzure | he made up this wild sotry about how he had previously made $130M from convincing congress to go ipv6 | 16:43 |
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| kanzure | and he wanted to fund an "HQ" for me and others focused around synthetic biology, mechatronics, fablabs, hackerspaces, diybio, etc. | 16:44 |
| kanzure | but when i tried to get a flight up there, he kind of stopped talking | 16:44 |
| kanzure | so i | 16:44 |
| kanzure | so i learned that he wasn't as trusting as he originally seemed to be, but there are a lot of others who want to see something like this happen | 16:44 |
| kanzure | austin miht be the right place too | 16:45 |
| silverman | Yeah probably. | 16:45 |
| kanzure | *might | 16:45 |
| silverman | That guy sounds nuts. He called you first? Isn't that suspicious? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | oops, no. i cold called him | 16:45 |
| silverman | Aha. | 16:46 |
| kanzure | this was after i m et his "assistant" of sorts (the other person working on this project) http://parijata.com/ | 16:46 |
| kanzure | she's like a female version of me | 16:46 |
| silverman | Ha | 16:46 |
| kanzure | srsly though. :p | 16:46 |
| silverman | That's hilarious. | 16:46 |
| silverman | So who pays for the fablab and who keeps idiots from ruining it? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | so that's what we do in here | 16:47 |
| silverman | The "people who need to make something" are paying? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | ah, well, the fablabs are usually funded by academic grants. this is an initiative out of MIT's Media Lab's Center for Bits and Atoms | 16:47 |
| silverman | I might be a professor here in a few years. If that happens, give me a call. | 16:48 |
| kanzure | techshop is commercially funded but has a bad business model. people buy/pay for a monthly fee/subscription to the shop. it's basically a gym model. but the problem is that the machines cost way too much | 16:48 |
| kanzure | so you must have everyone always on the machines, and even then, people don't get access to the machines at all because they have to be constantly booked | 16:48 |
| kanzure | and even if they are constantly booked, the cost is way way too high | 16:48 |
| kanzure | other ways are usually through the startup route.. where the core team also happens to do some consulting on the side wihich might involve a need for using the machines every once in a while | 16:49 |
| kanzure | like think of the best excuse for getting a giant CNC machine :p | 16:49 |
| silverman | Right. | 16:49 |
| silverman | You know, Slotboom has a machine shop at home. | 16:49 |
| silverman | I wonder if it's NC. | 16:49 |
| kanzure | a friend in the area has been doing just that, except with bicycles | 16:49 |
| kanzure | http://actualhardware.com/ | 16:49 |
| kanzure | (dave rauchwerk) | 16:50 |
| kanzure | he used to run the machine shop at louissiana university, and then he decided to quit (this was /before/ he knew that his $2M grant request for a new line of CNC machines was approved) | 16:50 |
| silverman | Is he doing good business? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | he always has some new parts to show me wihen we meet up, | 16:51 |
| kanzure | last time i checked it sounded like he was doing great | 16:51 |
| kanzure | he wants to do all this too, i mean, he's on the same wavelength | 16:52 |
| kanzure | he was thinking about picking up old rusted CNC machines and replacing their controllers | 16:52 |
| kanzure | ben,[Bfenn is my room mate | 16:52 |
| kanzure | - he used to work on the linuxcnc machine controller machine | 16:52 |
| kanzure | er. project | 16:52 |
| kanzure | god i hate my lag | 16:52 |
| kanzure | so anyway, by redoing their controllers, we can have actualhardware.com hooked up to the shop and do some neat stuff. but i don't know- maybe there's some other opportunities somewhere. | 16:53 |
| silverman | So I think I understand your deal, long-tail, open-source, mechatronics, the only piece I don't understand is the synthetic biology. | 16:54 |
| silverman | I guess it's like me being interested in those things, plus typography. | 16:54 |
| silverman | The bonus topic. | 16:54 |
| kanzure | http://diybio.org/ | 16:54 |
| kanzure | do-it-yourself genetic engineering | 16:54 |
| kanzure | open source hardware for lab experiments | 16:54 |
| silverman | And you seem to find that really compelling. | 16:55 |
| kanzure | also somewhat because of transhumanism: breaking past human limitations, etc. | 16:55 |
| kanzure | yeah, absolutely, do-it-yourself is the only way to get stuff done it seems | 16:55 |
| silverman | Ah right I left singularity stuff off my list. | 16:55 |
| kanzure | :) | 16:55 |
| kanzure | well, the original purpose of all of this was to make a self-replicating machine (not a reprap) that actually self-replicated | 16:56 |
| silverman | Actually I got off the Kurzweil train at Spiritual Machines, which I think was a good choice. | 16:56 |
| kanzure | yes, me too | 16:56 |
| silverman | Oh that's great. | 16:56 |
| silverman | What a relief. | 16:56 |
| kanzure | i mean, i got off at that too. | 16:56 |
| kanzure | i sent him this terrible email and he kindly replied and offered his other book, but i just deleted the email | 16:56 |
| silverman | Ha! | 16:56 |
| kanzure | i don't think "intelligence" is the right focus for singularity-anything | 16:57 |
| silverman | I thought he was an ass, but I guess I've changed my mind. | 16:57 |
| kanzure | sure there may be accelerating change and so on, but that doesn't say anything about intelligence | 16:57 |
| kanzure | so i think that manufacturing has a big role to play in making things | 16:57 |
| kanzure | this is very anti-"let's move everything to the cloud and not understand it" | 16:57 |
| silverman | I think the singularity is kind of bogus. I read a pretty convincing article about how everything that looks exponential just ends up being logistic. | 16:57 |
| kanzure | ah, well | 16:58 |
| silverman | And it's true. The logistic curve is everywhere. | 16:58 |
| kanzure | there is a core argument to the singularity ininstitute's claims | 16:58 |
| kanzure | they claim that that they should mke an ai first before anyone else does so that ai can be world dictator and stop unfriendly (anti-human) ai from popping up | 16:58 |
| kanzure | so that when ai becomes smart enough to modify itself, and make itself smarter, it won't make itself smarter in a way that it would decide to kill all humans | 16:58 |
| kanzure | now, i find this just as ridiculous as the next guy | 16:58 |
| kanzure | i don't even know what intelligence is | 16:59 |
| kanzure | but.. exponentials and logplots are interesting. especially when it comes to tech that makes itself (cells, machines, ..) | 16:59 |
| silverman | So give me the main example of what you'd like to be able to do with diybio. | 17:01 |
| kanzure | myostatin inhibitors to increase muscle mass growth in the human body | 17:01 |
| kanzure | gene synthesis, gene sequencing (like of my own genome) | 17:02 |
| silverman | And this is something you can do better at home? | 17:02 |
| kanzure | i would be doing it at the 'fablab' remember? | 17:02 |
| silverman | Don't get me wrong, I made my own coffee grinder. | 17:02 |
| kanzure | i don't think it matters /where/ it happens | 17:02 |
| silverman | But "wow the existing labs are really fucking that up" doesn't come to mind when I think of those topics. | 17:03 |
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| kanzure | the existing labs are laregely inaccessible and they don't even publish wthe stuff that matters | 17:03 |
| kanzure | wow yet another poorly worded paper | 17:03 |
| kanzure | just give me the damn schematics and the software you wrote :( | 17:03 |
| silverman | A myostatin inhibitor is likely to be a drug, not an organism, right? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | that's right | 17:04 |
| kanzure | oh you wanted an organism project? hm | 17:04 |
| kanzure | well mereditrh patterson was working on glow-in-the-dark yogurt | 17:04 |
| silverman | No, I just thought organisms were your interest. | 17:04 |
| silverman | Your other two examples were organisms. | 17:04 |
| kanzure | oops, sorry :) | 17:05 |
| silverman | So you'd like to synthesize drugs at home? | 17:05 |
| kanzure | gene synthesis isn't about organisms though | 17:05 |
| silverman | Your body language about DNA orgami made it seem like you thought it was silly. | 17:05 |
| kanzure | i mean, everything about biology is about cells i guess, but there are different ways to focus on the topics. there are genes and DNA, there's proteins and molecules, entire organisms, embryology, bioinformatics, metabolism, etc. | 17:05 |
| kanzure | yeah that too | 17:05 |
| kanzure | my body language is fucked up | 17:06 |
| silverman | Mine, too. So you'd like to dabble in DNA origami? | 17:06 |
| kanzure | one sec, paul rothemund spoke at UT a few weeks ago | 17:06 |
| silverman | Oh by the way your fablab needs an SEM. Have you taken that course? | 17:06 |
| kanzure | maybe, but i think there are some other topics that are more interesting. microfluidics maybe? | 17:06 |
| kanzure | there's a course on SEMs here? | 17:07 |
| kanzure | i was thinking about building an AFM | 17:07 |
| genehacker | silverman you are in the ME building? | 17:07 |
| silverman | Hell yes, and in the lab part you get a license to drive the SEM on 9. | 17:07 |
| silverman | Yep. | 17:07 |
| kanzure | someone in NJ i think(?) contacted me. he runs the IEEE club. he was going to be building some probe tips for an AFM | 17:07 |
| genehacker | yes kanzure there is a course on SEM here | 17:07 |
| silverman | Does AFM use piezo actuators? | 17:07 |
| genehacker | you need to level up in order to take it | 17:08 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:08 |
| genehacker | what floor silverman? | 17:08 |
| silverman | I sit on 3. | 17:08 |
| genehacker | grad student I take it? | 17:08 |
| silverman | Yeah, so I guess I already leveled up. | 17:08 |
| silverman | I bet Ciulik would let you take it if you made a good case. | 17:08 |
| kanzure | oh a grad student :) neat | 17:08 |
| silverman | Hell yes, I hope to be DOCTOR rude douchebag in August. | 17:09 |
| genehacker | heh I can put in a good word with ciulik | 17:09 |
| silverman | Metoo. | 17:09 |
| genehacker | Ciulik is a pretty cool guy, he encourages us to smash pennies in the rolling mill | 17:09 |
| silverman | He's quite a cool guy. | 17:10 |
| kanzure | ooh | 17:10 |
| kanzure | here we go | 17:10 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/lab/talks/2009-09-15-rothemund-utexas.html | 17:10 |
| kanzure | this was the presentation by the DNA origami guy when he came to UT a feew weeks ago | 17:10 |
| genehacker | he brought an air blaster into processing today and started shooting people when they left class | 17:10 |
| kanzure | of course, i took the opportunity to type up what he said | 17:10 |
| kanzure | so have fun | 17:10 |
| silverman | I took these in our SEM. http://tinyurl.com/yecserc | 17:11 |
| silverman | Is transcription like a tic or a policy? | 17:11 |
| kanzure | will look when i have more than 5kb/sec bandwidth | 17:11 |
| silverman | Ow | 17:11 |
| kanzure | policy? | 17:12 |
| silverman | Like, it's your personal policy to keep that kind of record. | 17:12 |
| kanzure | more like a policy i think | 17:12 |
| kanzure | "might as well. nobody else is" | 17:12 |
| kanzure | also it's good to look back over them over the years | 17:12 |
| kanzure | "hey i can really say that you never mentioned this ever in class" :p | 17:12 |
| silverman | Ha | 17:12 |
| kanzure | it's a good reality check | 17:13 |
| genehacker | why's your bandwidth down? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | uploading youtube vid | 17:13 |
| kanzure | or vid to youtube | 17:13 |
| kanzure | uploading anything takes forever on a residential connection | 17:14 |
| genehacker | fair enough | 17:15 |
| silverman | So if you can't make money even if the machines are fully booked, how can you make money? | 17:17 |
| silverman | Only if the machines were free? | 17:17 |
| kanzure | usuallconsulting, selling products, etc. | 17:17 |
| kanzure | sigh. still lagging | 17:18 |
| kanzure | usually consulting, selling products, working on outside projects, and generally getting a lot of bang for the buck | 17:18 |
| silverman | That says to me that the fees for using the machines are too low. | 17:18 |
| silverman | If selling their output produces much more money. | 17:18 |
| kanzure | yeah but who would want to use the machines if you have these outrageous fees? | 17:18 |
| kanzure | but what if they don't want to sell their output? | 17:18 |
| silverman | Shouldn't using the machine cost as much as the produce they could have made in the same time? | 17:19 |
| kanzure | basically i want an incubator or cacoon around a group of hackers | 17:19 |
| kanzure | and all the money bullshit is dealt with, and these people are allowed to be awesome | 17:19 |
| silverman | Yeah and that sounds good. | 17:20 |
| kanzure | in many cases they will want to commercialize something, and in other cases, they want to go all open source hardware on it | 17:20 |
| silverman | It just sounds like philanthropy has to be involved. | 17:20 |
| silverman | I have an idea. | 17:20 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:20 |
| silverman | Austin has no technology museum/science center. | 17:20 |
| kanzure | i hope it doesn't have to be | 17:20 |
| kanzure | but so far it does sound like that, doesn't it? | 17:20 |
| kanzure | yes we do. Chaoos Research Center | 17:20 |
| kanzure | *Chaos Research Center | 17:20 |
| silverman | What is that? | 17:21 |
| silverman | Nothing on the web. | 17:21 |
| silverman | Anyway, at the exploratorium they have a pretty excellent workshop for making the exhibits. | 17:21 |
| kanzure | ohg maybe it died. anyway. continue? it was just this museum for science/tech, it had a giant workspace component | 17:22 |
| silverman | And the exploratorium is a magnet for philanthropy and admission fees. | 17:22 |
| silverman | So there's a front door where people consume a subset of what's made in the back. | 17:22 |
| genehacker | so make an exploritorium/hackerspace in austin to get a hackerspace in austin? | 17:22 |
| kanzure | i see | 17:22 |
| silverman | Yeah. | 17:22 |
| genehacker | the exploritorium people are professionals | 17:23 |
| genehacker | they put a lot of work into those exhibits | 17:23 |
| silverman | That's right. | 17:23 |
| kanzure | so? | 17:23 |
| silverman | I'm not talking about amateurs making exhibits. | 17:23 |
| genehacker | making sure they are easy to maintenance, easy to understand, and such | 17:24 |
| silverman | I'm talking about part of the shop's output is exhibits and part is for the Public Good (OSH) and part is goofing off. | 17:24 |
| kanzure | that's not terrible | 17:24 |
| kanzure | goofing off must be an important ingredient :) yes, of course | 17:24 |
| * kanzure puts in a work order for an ironman exoskeleton (ok, maybe thicker than a few inches)_ | 17:24 | |
| silverman | Now I'm not sure the science center business model has room for a lot of goofing off. But maybe it does. | 17:25 |
| genehacker | huh? | 17:25 |
| silverman | There can also be some commercialization. | 17:25 |
| kanzure | i thnk OSH/FOOSS is totally compatible with commercialization :) | 17:26 |
| kanzure | *FOSS | 17:26 |
| silverman | Because the goofing off would be crucial to the accomplishment of the other two objectives. | 17:26 |
| kanzure | sigh. hey, i'm going to brb. or bbl. this typing thing sucks. i'll wait until i'm done uploading | 17:26 |
| silverman | Okay. | 17:26 |
| silverman | I'll also gtfo. | 17:30 |
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| kanzure | aw :( | 17:30 |
| genehacker | who is this silverman guy? | 17:31 |
| kanzure | :) | 17:31 |
| genehacker | you and your low bandwidth | 17:32 |
| genehacker | also leonids tonight, tesla coils on wednesday | 17:37 |
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| kanzure | heh japanese x-men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnAUEnnRdEE | 18:06 |
| ybit | 17:06 < silverman> Oh by the way your fablab needs an SEM. Have you taken that course? | 18:07 |
| kanzure | so if i take the course i get an SEM. right :p | 18:09 |
| ybit | i don't know if he wants his flickr account shared, but he has some pretty funny photos | 18:12 |
| kanzure | tim? | 18:13 |
| ybit | yeah | 18:13 |
| ybit | and smari is working on upc codes | 18:13 |
| kanzure | why isn't he in here? | 18:14 |
| ybit | Hi there Heath, | 18:14 |
| ybit | I've been absurdly busy recently and not managed to do a lot of work | 18:14 |
| ybit | on Tangible Bit proper; I have however been working on one aspect of it, | 18:14 |
| ybit | which is market information extraction, in the form of an application | 18:14 |
| ybit | for cellphones that uses the built in camera to act as a bar code | 18:14 |
| ybit | scanner. This allows users to build shopping lists as they go and check | 18:14 |
| ybit | prices against other stores, whilst using the users as agents to | 18:14 |
| ybit | crowdsource a database about product availability and local pricing. It | 18:14 |
| ybit | ties in to the Tangible Bit database in various ways; most importantly | 18:14 |
| ybit | providing a relationship between EAN/UPC codes and object definitions. | 18:14 |
| ybit | I've also been doing some work on a functional constructive solid | 18:14 |
| ybit | geometry engine and a query engine for constraints (such as material | 18:14 |
| ybit | constraints)... they have largely the same syntax, it's actually pretty | 18:14 |
| ybit | cool, but there's a shit ton of work that still needs to be done. | 18:14 |
| ybit | All my "spare" time this month has been funneled into travels, though, | 18:14 |
| ybit | I'm afraid... and next month will be a lot of travels too. Hopefully | 18:14 |
| ybit | things will settle down in January. | 18:14 |
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| ybit | - Smári | 18:14 |
| ybit | i dunno | 18:14 |
| ybit | i don't really care for this bar code scanner idea of his, i'll let him know this too | 18:15 |
| ybit | hi johnnyk | 18:15 |
| ybit | no point in it imho since if it's a price comparison he's after, it can be done online | 18:15 |
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| kanzure | haha | 18:16 |
| kanzure | so what's the deal with the random logouts | 18:16 |
| ybit | there are two new guys who haven't logged out: zancas and hesaidcheesehead | 18:17 |
| ybit | neither though are utexas | 18:18 |
| kanzure | no i think hesaidcheesehead is ben peterson | 18:18 |
| ybit | gotcha :) | 18:18 |
| kanzure | be are be | 18:18 |
| ybit | arrgh | 18:19 |
| * ybit keeps his mouth shut, upc/ean stuff might be helpful | 18:21 | |
| ybit | he's rebuilding opencascade it seems too | 18:22 |
| ybit | really wish he wouldn't seperate his efforts | 18:22 |
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| ybit | jeremiah petit may or may not show up for the h+ summit, if he does, we can knock off a few dollars each for the room | 18:31 |
| ybit | back to wiki work | 18:31 |
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| ybit | silverman: if you look on the diybio mailing list, i mentioned building a sem | 18:42 |
| ybit | i think that's a far ways away though considering all the other projects that will take up time before it | 18:42 |
| silverman | Yeah it shouldn't really be very hard, should it? | 18:44 |
| silverman | I mean, you could make a crappy one out of an old CRT. | 18:45 |
| ybit | haha, not exactly | 18:45 |
| ybit | my thoughts originally were those too | 18:46 |
| ybit | i have several old crt monitors taken apart for this very purpose | 18:46 |
| silverman | Oh wow you're farther than I am. | 18:46 |
| silverman | So what's the roadblock? The detector? | 18:46 |
| silverman | brb | 18:47 |
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| zancas | im still here | 18:49 |
| zancas | im just really sick toda | 18:49 |
| kanzure | he's rebuilding opencascade? | 18:50 |
| kanzure | why wouldn't he tell me about this? | 18:50 |
| ybit | he's build a csg geometry and query engine, so not quite rebuilding opencascade, but more like building something similar ..probably so he doesn't have the dependencies to worry about | 18:51 |
| kanzure | why not use brlcad's csg system | 18:53 |
| ybit | oh right, occ is brep | 18:54 |
| ybit | though it can do some csg? that confuses me | 18:55 |
| kanzure | if you want to subtract two given solids, it can do that | 18:55 |
| kanzure | csg/brep refers to internal representations of wtf is going on | 18:55 |
| kanzure | in the end most people just see solids and think it's solid :) | 18:56 |
| kanzure | i know fenn hates it, but the step importer i was writing could be a good base for doing brep/csg | 18:57 |
| kanzure | i.e., support all of the primitives and abilities that occ has with respect to iso 10303-214, and then go from there | 18:57 |
| kanzure | what occ implemented of step214 rerally isn't that huge.. i mean, it's more than 50 features, but still. | 18:58 |
| ybit | my first re search was for http://[w\\.-/]+\.?(?\w.-/]) | 19:00 |
| ybit | figure i need to learn it eventually | 19:00 |
| kanzure | ? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | your first search evar? | 19:00 |
| ybit | well, using python's re, yes | 19:00 |
| ybit | i have never messed with regular expressions, aside from a few basic ones in bash | 19:01 |
| ybit | i'm adding re, sed, and awk to my skillset, reading a little bit on it each day | 19:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.techsouls.com/projects/robosim/ | 19:03 |
| kanzure | anil made that | 19:03 |
| ybit | i've used it before in the past, but this one i made up myself and i feel kind of proud of it, the rest, i've just googled for :P | 19:04 |
| kanzure | really? i find that hard to believe | 19:04 |
| kanzure | don't you spend a lot of time in text editors? | 19:04 |
| ybit | emacs ftw | 19:04 |
| kanzure | surely you know at least *.? | 19:04 |
| ybit | of course, i think i've mentioned quite a few regexes on here | 19:04 |
| kanzure | but you never knew what they meant? | 19:05 |
| kanzure | oh man this is almost as bad as me :) | 19:05 |
| kanzure | hehe | 19:05 |
| ybit | i know a few bash reg.expressions | 19:05 |
| ybit | and i googled for the python regex way back when i was messing with mechanize, anywho, i'm going to setup a template for the wiki | 19:07 |
| kanzure | hm the "robosim" doesn't seem to do anything but switch views | 19:07 |
| kanzure | what wiki? | 19:07 |
| ybit | i thought you saw the pic i posted | 19:08 |
| kanzure | nope | 19:08 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/website.png | 19:09 |
| kanzure | dunno about the profiles sidethingy | 19:10 |
| ybit | i emailed the hatta guy, he made 0.0.0.0 the default interface instead of "", he said he'll fix it | 19:12 |
| ybit | not that big of a deal, but i guess the point i was trying to make ( and i fail at it) is that he sounded like a nice guy | 19:12 |
| ybit | yeah, i didn't know what could go there, but certainly something needs to | 19:13 |
| ybit | i figure the social aspect of thingiverse is appealing to some | 19:13 |
| ybit | and plus going 'social' or at least listing what equipment you have and what you are willing to make for others would be nice | 19:14 |
| ybit | fenn, kanzure: any suggestions on sorting by category? | 19:17 |
| ybit | that's going to be one massive list | 19:17 |
| kanzure | i think you're crazy and should go back to work on the inventory representation | 19:17 |
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| kanzure | hey [ym]uptown | 19:28 |
| [ym]uptown | hi | 19:28 |
| kanzure | what's up? | 19:29 |
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| ybit | oi [ym]uptown | 19:30 |
| [ym]uptown | not much, refered by ybit :) | 19:34 |
| [ym]uptown | so what's this channel about? | 19:34 |
| ybit | taking over the world | 19:34 |
| ybit | can we please make that the topic so we don't have to keep repeating ourselves, brain? | 19:35 |
| [ym]uptown | haha | 19:35 |
| ybit | 19:27 <[ym]uptown> you have a chance to let anybody else know about stiqr? | 19:36 |
| ybit | 19:28 <ybit> i let others know on #hplusroadmap but they are all free open source software fanatics like myself and want source code | 19:36 |
| ybit | 19:28 <[ym]uptown> cool cool | 19:36 |
| ybit | 19:28 <[ym]uptown> we're debating the opensource idea :) | 19:36 |
| ybit | or so i thought i mentioned it in here | 19:36 |
| genehacker | did the upload finish? | 19:37 |
| genehacker | do we have control of the central mainframe | 19:38 |
| ybit | http://ybit.ath.cx/test/test.html | 19:42 |
| ybit | damn that's annoying | 19:42 |
| kanzure | could you please stop working on silly templates and work on the inventory representation? | 19:42 |
| kanzure | also the openmanufacturing.org link is wrongs | 19:43 |
| ybit | why? | 19:43 |
| ybit | ah, indeed | 19:43 |
| kanzure | why? because that's what needs to be done? | 19:44 |
| ybit | i was referring to openmanufacturing.org | 19:45 |
| ybit | i thought we already talked about what i would be doing from now until a little before december | 19:45 |
| ybit | putting up the site and creating a .deb | 19:45 |
| kanzure | so no .deb, no egg? no inventory representation? | 19:45 |
| kanzure | why did the name change to fabhow? | 19:46 |
| ybit | because there are three other companies with the name omnifab, and the one in (i believe it's) washington work would be doing similar work | 19:46 |
| ybit | building custom manufactured parts | 19:46 |
| ybit | -work | 19:47 |
| [ym]uptown | :) | 19:53 |
| [ym]uptown | you know, i've taken a look at this site and I still don't understand what it is | 19:53 |
| [ym]uptown | and what is skdb? | 19:54 |
| drazak | [ym]uptown: I've been asking that for 4 months and still haven't gotten a straight answer | 19:54 |
| ybit | haha, it's the societal-engineering knowledge database | 19:55 |
| [ym]uptown | lol | 19:55 |
| ybit | the sum of man's useful knowledge at your fingertips | 19:55 |
| drazak | except it's empty | 19:55 |
| ybit | ..or it will be | 19:55 |
| [ym]uptown | is there anything I can do to help? | 19:55 |
| [ym]uptown | it sounds big. | 19:56 |
| [ym]uptown | :) | 19:56 |
| ybit | massive is the word actually | 19:56 |
| [ym]uptown | haha | 19:56 |
| ybit | what do you have to offer? | 19:56 |
| [ym]uptown | i'm a phpcoder | 19:56 |
| [ym]uptown | been freelancing for about 5+ years | 19:56 |
| ybit | that would be wonderful, i suck at webdev | 19:56 |
| [ym]uptown | so who else are working with you? | 19:57 |
| ybit | well, fenn has written a large portion of the code in skdb | 19:57 |
| ybit | and kanzure has helped | 19:57 |
| [ym]uptown | skdb. | 19:58 |
| ybit | they have both worked on it while at the automated design lab in austin, tx | 19:58 |
| [ym]uptown | is there a site for it? | 19:58 |
| ybit | i have done squat except talk about it, attempt to build a site, and attempt to build a .deb.. i have actually installed pythonocc, occ, skdb, and have it running which is a feat in itself | 19:58 |
| [ym]uptown | what's occ? | 19:59 |
| [ym]uptown | and again, what is skdb? | 19:59 |
| ybit | opencascade | 19:59 |
| [ym]uptown | ah this is about modeling? | 19:59 |
| ybit | [ym]uptown: see the topic for a link to the description | 20:00 |
| ybit | if you want something, you download it to your computer and if you have the machinery, it is automatically built for you | 20:01 |
| ybit | ..in theory, right now, instructions are printed out for you | 20:01 |
| ybit | ..well, not even now, but soon! :) | 20:01 |
| ybit | drazak: what do you not know silly? | 20:03 |
| genehacker | inventory representation? | 20:03 |
| ybit | what about it? | 20:03 |
| ybit | i would explain, but i have a feeling you know what it is genehacker | 20:04 |
| genehacker | the inventory of ? | 20:05 |
| ybit | 'do you have a reprap' 'o wonderful, now let's make some lego bricks' | 20:05 |
| genehacker | useful knowledge | 20:05 |
| genehacker | cad files? | 20:05 |
| ybit | listing of machines, tools, and materials from the owner | 20:05 |
| ybit | s/from the owner/the owner has | 20:06 |
| ybit | s/owner/user | 20:06 |
| genehacker | ok | 20:06 |
| ybit | [ym]uptown: you still here? | 20:07 |
| [ym]uptown | sorry | 20:08 |
| [ym]uptown | at work | 20:09 |
| kanzure | no we're not doing php web development ybit, i thought you knew this | 20:09 |
| kanzure | ybit: you suck at explaining skdb | 20:09 |
| [ym]uptown | so how do i get this machine? | 20:09 |
| ybit | kanzure: :P | 20:09 |
| kanzure | god i hate people | 20:09 |
| [ym]uptown | hahah | 20:09 |
| [ym]uptown | you guys close? | 20:09 |
| kanzure | to what | 20:09 |
| drazak | ybit: I kinda know | 20:09 |
| [ym]uptown | to each other | 20:09 |
| kanzure | a lot of the time is spent yelling at ybit for doing stupid shit | 20:10 |
| [ym]uptown | who's leading this project? | 20:10 |
| ybit | we know each other throught this channel, but some people go ass-fucking kanzure on occassion | 20:10 |
| ybit | i.e. afk | 20:10 |
| kanzure | [ym]uptown: i guess i am. fenn does too a lot. | 20:10 |
| [ym]uptown | cool | 20:11 |
| drazak | kanzure: what else is new | 20:11 |
| kanzure | it's a way of downloading hardware from the web | 20:11 |
| kanzure | drazak: hm? | 20:11 |
| kanzure | drazak: i don't know how many times i've told you this | 20:11 |
| kanzure | but i think it's "many" | 20:11 |
| kanzure | maybe you just don't understand things? | 20:11 |
| drazak | no | 20:12 |
| [ym]uptown | very interesting idea | 20:12 |
| [ym]uptown | saw something like this on ted before. | 20:12 |
| kanzure | :) | 20:12 |
| drazak | I'm saying you being the leader is "what else is new" | 20:12 |
| kanzure | yeah it was probably neil gershenfeld | 20:12 |
| [ym]uptown | well | 20:12 |
| [ym]uptown | i'd love to help | 20:12 |
| kanzure | well i think i spend a lot of time leading or acting like i'm leading | 20:12 |
| kanzure | so does fenn.. it's not really fenn | 20:12 |
| kanzure | i mean | 20:12 |
| ybit | kanzure talks a lot | 20:12 |
| kanzure | it's not really an official leader position | 20:12 |
| kanzure | because there aren't positions | 20:12 |
| kanzure | i'm just grumpy | 20:12 |
| [ym]uptown | i think you guys need a designer :) | 20:12 |
| kanzure | i need someone who actually knows css | 20:13 |
| ybit | i agree! | 20:13 |
| kanzure | and doesn't fucking bullshit me | 20:13 |
| kanzure | either you know it well or you don't | 20:13 |
| kanzure | man. | 20:13 |
| [ym]uptown | ybit: any idea you didn't go with a traditional design? | 20:13 |
| ybit | because i suck at life | 20:13 |
| kanzure | i just spent the last three days fighting with people who thought they knew how to do design.. | 20:13 |
| kanzure | [ym]uptown: web2.0ier look would be cool :) | 20:13 |
| ybit | [ym]uptown: what do you mean by traditional? | 20:13 |
| ybit | indeed | 20:14 |
| [ym]uptown | ybit: like a normal site :). | 20:14 |
| [ym]uptown | ybit: the current design looks very uncommon and out there | 20:14 |
| kanzure | sorry what's a normal site? | 20:14 |
| [ym]uptown | just something clean :) | 20:14 |
| [ym]uptown | that's what 2.0 really is | 20:14 |
| ybit | [ym]uptown: see http://ybit.ath.cx/images/website.png for my latest design.. it needs to go in the wiki direction imho | 20:14 |
| [ym]uptown | other than all the other features that come with it | 20:14 |
| kanzure | ybit: can you just stop with this design crap and get back to work? | 20:14 |
| kanzure | please? | 20:14 |
| [ym]uptown | :) | 20:15 |
| ybit | well, you did use the magic word | 20:15 |
| kanzure | .. | 20:15 |
| [ym]uptown | trying look at some of the predesigned CSS templates and just work off of that. | 20:15 |
| [ym]uptown | makesy our live a lot easier. | 20:15 |
| kanzure | no | 20:15 |
| genehacker | CSS doesn't help me build robots | 20:15 |
| kanzure | god that's what all these wackos did | 20:15 |
| kanzure | "yeah we just steal layouts" | 20:15 |
| kanzure | wtf | 20:15 |
| silverman | Ha I was there. | 20:15 |
| kanzure | yeah i know :) | 20:16 |
| silverman | And that's how it happened. | 20:16 |
| kanzure | i don't think you stole any layouts though | 20:16 |
| silverman | Correct! I was mostly doing puzzles during that phase of the operation. http://www.collegepuzzlechallenge.com/ | 20:16 |
| ybit | :P | 20:16 |
| genehacker | so that's what 3day startup is all about | 20:16 |
| genehacker | huh what did I miss? | 20:17 |
| kanzure | that's not what it's about | 20:17 |
| ybit | it seems like a great way to.. make contacts maybe? | 20:18 |
| ybit | work on a site that might give you some income while in college? | 20:18 |
| kanzure | well they actually start you a company and give you the legal infrastructure | 20:18 |
| ybit | legal infrawhat exactly? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | meh | 20:19 |
| ybit | i.e. someone does all the drudge work of filling our tax forms for you, that would be nice for a change | 20:19 |
| ybit | s/our/out | 20:19 |
| kanzure | no | 20:19 |
| kanzure | they just wave a magic wand and hope you give them ip | 20:20 |
| kanzure | "IP" | 20:20 |
| ybit | boo! | 20:20 |
| kanzure | it's ok, i didn't give them anything :) | 20:20 |
| genehacker | nice | 20:20 |
| genehacker | so does your company real yet? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | sorry, what? | 20:20 |
| ybit | s/does/is | 20:20 |
| kanzure | can you please speak english | 20:20 |
| kanzure | what is 'real'? | 20:20 |
| ybit | he's doing better than me, give him some slack :) | 20:21 |
| silverman | Yes! I had the same impression about the wand. | 20:21 |
| genehacker | do you a gene synthesis company | 20:21 |
| kanzure | no | 20:21 |
| kanzure | gene synthesis was never the idea | 20:21 |
| ybit | genehacker: i told you they didn't except it | 20:21 |
| genehacker | bidding company | 20:21 |
| kanzure | no | 20:21 |
| ybit | right, no | 20:21 |
| silverman | When I signed the "we own everything you create this weekend" contract I thought, "well I guess I'm not creating anything this weekend". | 20:21 |
| genehacker | damn | 20:21 |
| kanzure | silverman: heh :) | 20:21 |
| ybit | :) | 20:21 |
| genehacker | oh shit | 20:21 |
| genehacker | they do that? | 20:21 |
| genehacker | I should have known | 20:22 |
| silverman | Oh yes that contract is pretty serious. | 20:22 |
| ybit | i have to go trash some floor tiles, unless anybody wants them? | 20:22 |
| ybit | no takers? okay brb | 20:22 |
| silverman | What kind? | 20:22 |
| ybit | fake wood | 20:22 |
| silverman | New? | 20:22 |
| [ym]uptown | ybit: http://layouts.ironmyers.com/ | 20:22 |
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| silverman | No, what am I thinking, I don't want them. | 20:22 |
| silverman | Thank you. | 20:22 |
| kanzure | hey Richard | 20:22 |
| ybit | nope, about 600 sq ft of old fake wood | 20:22 |
| ybit | okay, brb | 20:22 |
| -!- Richard is now known as Guest39700 | 20:23 | |
| silverman | Is that /the/ richard? | 20:23 |
| [ym]uptown | http://woot.com/ | 20:23 |
| silverman | Not anymore! | 20:23 |
| Guest39700 | hi bryan | 20:23 |
| [ym]uptown | got a good clean feel | 20:23 |
| genehacker | another utexas | 20:23 |
| kanzure | [ym]uptown: if you want examples please see http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/sites-layouts | 20:23 |
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| -!- silverman_ is now known as silverman | 20:28 | |
| kanzure | just added http://cssremix.com/visit/ballpark/ to the list | 20:29 |
| kanzure | Guest39700: use "/nick richard2" to change your username | 20:30 |
| -!- Guest39700 is now known as richard2 | 20:30 | |
| genehacker | I presume these are people you met in 3day start up kanzure? | 20:30 |
| richard2 | I'm from 3 day startup! | 20:31 |
| ybit | oi richard2 | 20:31 |
| silverman | Riiichard | 20:31 |
| silverman | Richard laughs on command | 20:31 |
| silverman | Or also without command | 20:31 |
| genehacker | so I hear 3 day startup gets your IP in return for helping you make a startup? | 20:32 |
| * ybit tickles CIA-43 | 20:32 | |
| * ybit hugs CIA-43 | 20:32 | |
| richard2 | who is ybit? | 20:32 |
| * CIA-43 hugs ybit | 20:32 | |
| * ybit is a bot | 20:32 | |
| richard2 | hahaaaahahhahahahahhahaha | 20:32 |
| richard2 | I like robots | 20:32 |
| kanzure | ybit stalks me all the way from alabama | 20:33 |
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| kanzure | hey tabs | 20:33 |
| ybit | on my dial-up modem | 20:33 |
| ybit | oi tabs, glad you could join us | 20:33 |
| kanzure | so, richard, i was surprised that everything worked for the presentation | 20:33 |
| kanzure | did you print out the pdf? | 20:33 |
| kanzure | i looked around on the server and didn't see the pdf | 20:33 |
| richard2 | well, no | 20:33 |
| tabs | thanks :) | 20:33 |
| richard2 | only the image upload worked | 20:34 |
| richard2 | we just printed the image | 20:34 |
| kanzure | blah. | 20:34 |
| kanzure | i see | 20:34 |
| kanzure | well that needs some more testing | 20:34 |
| ybit | tabs here might be able to help us with web design as well | 20:34 |
| kanzure | ybit: sorry but you suck at web design. i don't trust your friends either | 20:34 |
| tabs | lol | 20:34 |
| silverman | One time the server unexpectedly made a 42-byte pdf. | 20:34 |
| kanzure | silverman: wait, do you have an account? | 20:35 |
| kanzure | er | 20:35 |
| kanzure | who are you? | 20:35 |
| kanzure | tim? | 20:35 |
| silverman | Yeah. | 20:35 |
| ybit | no offense taken, i like to start out introuducing myself to others by letting them know i suck at life | 20:35 |
| kanzure | silverman: i don't think i met you | 20:35 |
| ybit | then nobody expects much from me | 20:35 |
| ybit | tabs is http://nomzz.spot.bz/ | 20:35 |
| silverman | Well I met you. | 20:35 |
| kanzure | i'm sure he stole the layout | 20:35 |
| tabs | url: http://nomzz.spot.bz/j | 20:35 |
| kanzure | silverman: ok. i was probably sleep deprived, i'm sorry | 20:35 |
| silverman | Maybe it's not commutative? Is that the word? | 20:35 |
| kanzure | soemthing like that | 20:36 |
| kanzure | something | 20:36 |
| kanzure | ok that was a legitimate typo | 20:36 |
| silverman | No just continue blaming youtube upload. | 20:36 |
| silverman | We'll believe it. | 20:36 |
| kanzure | nope, that stopped hours ago | 20:36 |
| kanzure | it turns out they only want 10min videos | 20:36 |
| kanzure | and i had this ~hour presentation | 20:36 |
| silverman | Oh shit that was for nothing? | 20:36 |
| ybit | tabs: see the topic for an intro to skdb, and here's my attempt at a short description of what it is: a repostiroy for hardware designs with the goal of automating the construction of the designs | 20:36 |
| silverman | Anyway no I don't have an account, I have the same test account Richard had. | 20:37 |
| kanzure | ok | 20:37 |
| kanzure | richard had his own account btw | 20:37 |
| kanzure | but i don't think he remembered | 20:37 |
| kanzure | oh, he's in here | 20:37 |
| silverman | Aha. | 20:37 |
| kanzure | hi richard2 | 20:37 |
| silverman | Yeah he's here, and quiet., | 20:37 |
| silverman | Is there an IRC client for the iPhone? Then he'd be less quiet. | 20:37 |
| kanzure | anyway, i'll be happy to throw you up an account | 20:37 |
| richard2 | hahaa | 20:37 |
| tabs | ok ybit got it | 20:37 |
| richard2 | hahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha | 20:37 |
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| silverman | Don't worry about it, I have very, very little to contribute to that business. | 20:37 |
| kanzure | hey johnnyk | 20:38 |
| genehacker | don't you know that youtube only accepts 8 minute videos? | 20:38 |
| silverman | I am not really a programmer. | 20:38 |
| kanzure | genehacker: 10min | 20:38 |
| kanzure | silverman: ah i see | 20:38 |
| genehacker | oh | 20:38 |
| genehacker | big mistake | 20:38 |
| johnnyk | hey kanzure | 20:38 |
| kanzure | so while i was sitting on my throne today | 20:38 |
| kanzure | i realized that we should have all used separate cherrypy servers | 20:38 |
| kanzure | because they allow really really rapid web development | 20:38 |
| kanzure | we were using just one giant server | 20:38 |
| kanzure | integrated into apache | 20:38 |
| kanzure | but there's no reason it couldn't have been done with everyone having their own tiny server | 20:38 |
| kanzure | since the code could all be thrown together in the end | 20:38 |
| kanzure | oh well. lesson learned | 20:39 |
| silverman | Why would that be better? | 20:39 |
| kanzure | cherrypy comes with a built-in server | 20:39 |
| kanzure | i integrated it immediately with apache | 20:39 |
| ybit | and its pythonic | 20:39 |
| kanzure | so the website is running the version up on apache | 20:39 |
| kanzure | but it could have just been "iphone image uploader" or something, and someone else could have done a python interface to paypal for another cherrypy server | 20:39 |
| kanzure | and then copy-pasta the code together when we were all ready to integrate | 20:39 |
| kanzure | anyway | 20:39 |
| kanzure | this is the video that i was uploading: | 20:40 |
| kanzure | http://igem.uwaterloo.ca/Video:Hessel | 20:40 |
| kanzure | 220MB :( | 20:40 |
| kanzure | silverman, richard2: this guy might sound a little bit like cameron houser | 20:41 |
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| kanzure | even though his idea is different | 20:41 |
| genehacker | so you are going ahead with the gene synthesis bidding plan? | 20:47 |
| ybit | yes, i will bug him until he does | 20:50 |
| silverman | I have a question on that topic. | 20:51 |
| silverman | He said the machine is cheap and the chemicals are cheap in bulk. | 20:51 |
| genehacker | what machine? | 20:51 |
| genehacker | the synthesis machine? | 20:51 |
| silverman | Yeah. | 20:51 |
| ybit | silverman: carry on.. | 20:52 |
| silverman | So why not buy a machine and organize the small-time synthesis customers into a big cohort yourself? | 20:52 |
| genehacker | well uh we could make one | 20:52 |
| silverman | Rather than organize them and then hand their business to someone else for the commission? | 20:52 |
| genehacker | but it might be illegal | 20:52 |
| silverman | Illegal to do what? | 20:52 |
| genehacker | you know what a DLP chip is? | 20:52 |
| silverman | Yep. | 20:52 |
| genehacker | well you can use one to make a DNA synthesis machine | 20:53 |
| ybit | silverman: i think with the bidding process, we could force the price to drop quicker | 20:53 |
| ybit | /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/cherrypy/wsgiserver/__init__.py | 20:53 |
| genehacker | it might be possible to use a DLP projector to do DNA synthesis | 20:53 |
| silverman | genehacker: Oh that's cool, how? | 20:53 |
| genehacker | but the problem is, this might violate a patent | 20:53 |
| kanzure | genehacker: stfu | 20:53 |
| kanzure | who cares about patents? | 20:53 |
| silverman | ybit: Drop quicker than if you just cut the profit margin to the minimum? | 20:54 |
| ybit | kanzure, fenn what do you have for line 1470 of the file above? | 20:54 |
| silverman | Patents are important if rich people hold them. | 20:54 |
| ybit | for the _bind_addr variable | 20:54 |
| kanzure | silverman: patents are important if you sell something | 20:54 |
| genehacker | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/11df41fe0002c06b/5f77c7fab381e5ed?lnk=gst&q=dlp+projector#5f77c7fab381e5ed | 20:54 |
| silverman | The exclusive right is to make, use, sell or import. | 20:54 |
| kanzure | yeah but that's kind of crazy when there's 100+ trillion cells on the planet already doing it | 20:54 |
| kanzure | "prior art" | 20:54 |
| silverman | So that covers that class of patents. | 20:55 |
| kanzure | *doing DNA synthesis | 20:55 |
| silverman | But not every patent. | 20:55 |
| kanzure | why would you do that? | 20:55 |
| kanzure | or support that ? | 20:55 |
| silverman | Do what now? | 20:55 |
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| kanzure | why would you support this about patents, i mean | 20:55 |
| kanzure | hey ras :) | 20:55 |
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| kanzure | it sounds very counter-productive | 20:55 |
| genehacker | are there? | 20:55 |
| silverman | I'm just explaining that you don't have to sell a patented invention to break the law. | 20:55 |
| kanzure | i'm sure i'm breaking the law right now, somehow | 20:56 |
| silverman | And I made no statement about what I support. | 20:56 |
| kanzure | that's how it is isn't it? | 20:56 |
| genehacker | you are | 20:56 |
| kanzure | lovely | 20:56 |
| genehacker | and silverman is too probably | 20:56 |
| silverman | Oya | 20:56 |
| kanzure | ybit: 127.0.0.1 | 20:56 |
| genehacker | who cares though | 20:56 |
| kanzure | so yeah | 20:56 |
| genehacker | anyway now what were we talking about | 20:56 |
| kanzure | silverman: the reason why was because i wasn't thinking about that :) | 20:56 |
| ybit | okay, that's what i have, guess i'll have to look somewhere else then | 20:56 |
| genehacker | point is we could probably make an DNA synthesizer | 20:56 |
| kanzure | silverman: the other big reason is that they won't ship me the chemicals | 20:56 |
| kanzure | i'd have to synthesize them from scratch | 20:57 |
| genehacker | you could incorporate | 20:57 |
| kanzure | and i currently don't know how to do that competently | 20:57 |
| ras | my name is already in use :( | 20:57 |
| silverman | That's right, we have to register every fkn beaker in Texas. | 20:57 |
| kanzure | ras: quick, use /nick blah to change it | 20:57 |
| genehacker | robots automation society? | 20:57 |
| ras | yah...Chad is already in use | 20:57 |
| kanzure | hey chad :) | 20:57 |
| richard2 | hey chad! | 20:57 |
| ras | hola | 20:57 |
| genehacker | chad2 perhaps? | 20:57 |
| ras | awww...i has better idea | 20:58 |
| -!- ras is now known as Chad0 | 20:58 | |
| Chad0 | huzah | 20:58 |
| kanzure | Chad0: http://diybio.org/ http://openwetware.org/ http://biobricks.org/ http://syntheticbiology.org/ http://partsregistry.org/ | 20:58 |
| genehacker | kanzure if you incorporate, they will most definately ship the chemicals to you | 20:58 |
| kanzure | genehacker: no there are other regulations | 20:58 |
| genehacker | crap there are? | 20:58 |
| kanzure | yeah lots of inspection details iirc | 20:58 |
| kanzure | let me look it up though | 20:58 |
| kanzure | silverman: would that be a good excuse? | 20:58 |
| genehacker | what did the polynucleotide synthesis consortium draft some new rules or something? | 20:59 |
| Chad0 | thanks bryan! | 20:59 |
| silverman | Yes, if you're unable to legally obtain the chemicals, that's a good excuse. | 20:59 |
| kanzure | Chad0: yeah, i'm full of all sorts of fun links | 20:59 |
| Chad0 | i mean brian | 20:59 |
| Chad0 | sorry... | 20:59 |
| kanzure | no, bryan | 20:59 |
| Chad0 | oh crap | 20:59 |
| Chad0 | i really meant bryan | 20:59 |
| genehacker | anyway so how do we make the reactors for making the chemicals and by make the chemicals from scratch how deep into that process do you want to go? | 21:00 |
| kanzure | i thought i already told you? | 21:00 |
| kanzure | blah if i have to repeat myself every day this is going to get ridiculous, genehacker | 21:00 |
| kanzure | there's probably a link in that thread you linked to | 21:00 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/11df41fe0002c06b/5f77c7fab381e5ed?lnk=gst&q=dlp+projector#5f77c7fab381e5ed | 21:00 |
| silverman | Is it illegal to buy the chemicals but legal to buy them? | 21:01 |
| silverman | Sorry, legal to make them? | 21:01 |
| kanzure | it's probably also illegal to make them without the right permits | 21:01 |
| genehacker | ok then, how do you suggest we make a microfluidic microfactory? | 21:01 |
| kanzure | one of the reactions involves phosgene | 21:01 |
| silverman | Aha | 21:01 |
| genehacker | yup yup | 21:01 |
| kanzure | but it can maybe be avoided | 21:01 |
| genehacker | err.... | 21:02 |
| kanzure | like in non-phosphoramidite reactions | 21:02 |
| genehacker | not so sure about that kanzure | 21:02 |
| kanzure | er non-phosphoramidite oligonucleotide/gene synthesis | 21:02 |
| genehacker | let me dig up the reactions I've mapped out | 21:02 |
| genehacker | yeah and HF if you want to make it from scratch | 21:03 |
| kanzure | some relevant papers | 21:03 |
| kanzure | http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Oligonucleotide%20on-chip%20synthesis%20using%20PDMS%20stamp.pdf | 21:03 |
| kanzure | http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Review%20-%20Gene%20synthesis%20demystified%20-%202008.pdf | 21:03 |
| kanzure | http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Synthesis%20of%20amphiphilic%20graphene%20nanoplatelets.pdf | 21:03 |
| kanzure | http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/Synthesis%20of%20novel%20phosphoramidite%20building%20blocks%20from%20pentaerythritol.pdf | 21:03 |
| kanzure | http://bio.cc/Bioinformics/papers/The%20Efficiency%20of%20Light-Directed%20Synthesis%20of%20DNA%20Arrays%20on%20Glass%20Substrates.pdf | 21:03 |
| kanzure | that should be good for a while | 21:04 |
| genehacker | are we actually considering starting a DNA synthesis company? | 21:05 |
| kanzure | no | 21:05 |
| kanzure | none of us can do it | 21:06 |
| kanzure | so i don't think starting a company around something we can't do is a good idea | 21:06 |
| genehacker | ok | 21:06 |
| genehacker | then what do you propose doing | 21:06 |
| kanzure | well i was working on a gene synthesis bidding website | 21:06 |
| kanzure | ybit made some calls too | 21:06 |
| genehacker | so have you been able to get any agreements with gene synthesis companies? | 21:07 |
| kanzure | there's potentially some work with one, yes | 21:07 |
| genehacker | ok | 21:08 |
| genehacker | you might consider screening the submitted DNA sequence to make sure it isn't bad, IE not a dangerous terrorist bioweapon | 21:09 |
| genehacker | that'd give you some leverage | 21:09 |
| kanzure | why would that give me leverage? | 21:09 |
| kanzure | nobody would want to use it because it might say they can't make whatever it is they are making | 21:09 |
| genehacker | especially because DNA synthesis companies don't want to screen DNA | 21:09 |
| kanzure | then why would they want me to screen it? | 21:09 |
| genehacker | and governments do | 21:09 |
| kanzure | governments do since when ? | 21:09 |
| kanzure | don't believe the hype | 21:09 |
| genehacker | there was a big talk about DNA screening procedures | 21:10 |
| genehacker | http://pgen.us/ICPS.htm | 21:11 |
| kanzure | sigh i'm sorry but i'm not really understanding you | 21:11 |
| kanzure | there's been talks about a billion and one things in this world.. | 21:11 |
| genehacker | oh well | 21:11 |
| genehacker | all that matters is you get agreements with gene synthesis companies | 21:11 |
| genehacker | which it looks like you're doing | 21:11 |
| kanzure | Chad0: so what's up? | 21:12 |
| ybit | drr, python hatta.py -i 127.0.0.1 | 21:12 |
| kanzure | i wish hatta-wiki.org would use anyvcs or at least have git support :) | 21:12 |
| kanzure | also their url scheme is kind of funky | 21:12 |
| kanzure | wonky | 21:12 |
| kanzure | oh well. that's something that's worth doing | 21:13 |
| silverman | night | 21:22 |
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| kanzure | Chad0: like the links? | 21:25 |
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| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/genebay-test.html | 22:16 |
| ybit | not bad | 22:18 |
| ybit | http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/StaticContent | 22:19 |
| ybit | http://tools.cherrypy.org/wiki/FastCGIWSGI | 22:19 |
| ybit | kanzure: wasn't sure if you were aware of them | 22:19 |
| kanzure | no, i fixed :) | 22:19 |
| kanzure | also staticcontent is a good page | 22:20 |
| kanzure | #cherrypy sucks | 22:20 |
| ybit | indeed | 22:20 |
| ybit | but fuckmandu or whatever his name was helpful like you said | 22:20 |
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| kanzure | hey zancas_ | 22:26 |
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| ybit | oi Uptownhr | 23:00 |
| ybit | i think most of us are busy right now | 23:01 |
| Uptownhr | hi | 23:01 |
| ybit | but check out the topic for details on what SKDB is | 23:01 |
| Uptownhr | its coo | 23:01 |
| Uptownhr | lol | 23:01 |
| Uptownhr | nice update. | 23:01 |
| Uptownhr | but still not informative.... | 23:01 |
| ybit | skdb is a repository for hardware designs with a goal of automating manufacturing of the designs | 23:02 |
| Uptownhr | you provide a link to something that describes and informs people of what "automated manufacturing" is | 23:03 |
| Uptownhr | like a wiki page or something | 23:03 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automation | 23:03 |
| Uptownhr | lol | 23:03 |
| ybit | in particular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automation#Automated_manufacturing | 23:03 |
| Uptownhr | there we go | 23:04 |
| ybit | i.e. 'hey computer i want a new car' *plump* 'you're welcome now leave me alone while fsck myself' | 23:04 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsck#Use_as_profanity | 23:05 |
| ybit | but in the simplest cases, you will probably ask for various types of screws and lego blocks | 23:06 |
| ybit | let's say someone designed an atomic force microscope from lego blocks made of polyactic acid (this would probably come from something like the reprap ( www.reprap.org )).. and let's say they submitted it into the database and you wanted it. well click the pretty icon on the webpage that says 'download me' or grab it from a commandline prompt, and if you have a reprap, it should automatically communicate to it what to build, and if the system is proper | 23:09 |
| ybit | woah, that's too many "it's", if you are confused, i'll explain further | 23:11 |
| Uptownhr | haha | 23:12 |
| Uptownhr | no i'm good | 23:12 |
| Uptownhr | i get it | 23:12 |
| ybit | great, now who are you? :P | 23:12 |
| Uptownhr | this is uptwon | 23:13 |
| Uptownhr | ym | 23:13 |
| Uptownhr | on a different computer | 23:13 |
| ybit | ah, gotcha | 23:13 |
| ybit | the lack of [ym] threw me for a loop | 23:14 |
| ybit | i think something like hatta wiki is what we are needing, we don't need really need anything fancy, though some good web designers would certainly be welcome.. and it would be nice to have a simple login system implemented on top of it as well | 23:16 |
| ybit | ignore grammar from this sleep-deprived mind | 23:17 |
| * ybit is afk for 30 mins | 23:18 | |
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