| --- Day changed Thu Dec 03 2009 | ||
| futuresoon | i think in rdf there's more intelligence in the data itself, so that sparql queries themselves can be written that find what you're looking for specifically | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| futuresoon | instead of writing code that figures it out, you would write query builders (or something) | 00:00 |
| futuresoon | in that case the ontologies really do heavy lifting, not just "mental masturbatory" whatchama | 00:01 |
| kanzure | why is this so important? | 00:01 |
| fenn | query writing becomes generic and you dont have to know the code structure in advance | 00:02 |
| kanzure | so what? | 00:02 |
| futuresoon | well for one thing you could have a "distro" where you solved the b-rep and manufacturing processes (make them standard) and still be able to use that data | 00:02 |
| fenn | presumably there are tools to interactively query an rdf dataset, like bpython | 00:02 |
| kanzure | i'm sorry futuresoon but that sentence didn't make sense | 00:02 |
| fenn | yeah i think you are using the word b-rep wrong, every time you say it, it makes no sense | 00:03 |
| futuresoon | okay i'm just learning what it is today | 00:03 |
| futuresoon | so definitely let me know when i misuse it | 00:03 |
| fenn | b-rep == geometry | 00:03 |
| fenn | solid geometry in particular | 00:03 |
| fenn | has android really been out since january? | 00:04 |
| fenn | i first saw "compass mode" like two weeks ago | 00:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: smari's whole point was that you can have any query language and just get their internal data structures for their parsed queries. i mean, most query languages are pretty much the same. tables, values, attributes, etc. | 00:04 |
| fenn | but these guys are talking about it like common knowledge in january | 00:04 |
| fenn | kanzure: you mean translating between query languages? | 00:05 |
| kanzure | no | 00:05 |
| kanzure | i mean querying the same underlying set of data from whatever your favorite querying language is | 00:05 |
| fenn | ok same thing i guess | 00:05 |
| kanzure | do'h? | 00:05 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: i think it's hard to understand all this semantic bullshit without some down-to-earth-experience | 00:06 |
| futuresoon | kanzure: if someone uses SIOC and Dublin Core and a few other common things as well as an SKDB rdf ontology you can say "show me all the versions of x-type-widget for which i meet all the manufacturing processes and materials that are after such and such a date" | 00:06 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: so if you have python installed, and skdb downloaded, run "dice.py" in skdb/ to see if it works or not. | 00:06 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: and you're claim is that we can't do that without an rdf ontology? | 00:07 |
| kanzure | i mean ew could also do it with rocks and stones if we wanted to.. | 00:07 |
| kanzure | on abiscidoafjdjdidrfq um. nevermind | 00:07 |
| fenn | with the current system, the query language is python | 00:07 |
| kanzure | not quite true | 00:07 |
| futuresoon | loading foomoo, loading !foo bar, dumping Foo(moo) | 00:07 |
| kanzure | there's also some booleano implementation | 00:07 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: ok so it works? | 00:07 |
| futuresoon | i guess so | 00:08 |
| fenn | i've never seen booleano working | 00:08 |
| kanzure | i mean no errors | 00:08 |
| futuresoon | none that i see | 00:08 |
| futuresoon | i think what i'm missing now is OCC | 00:08 |
| fenn | it's just a demo of inferring tag type | 00:08 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm trying to show him that this is about serialization | 00:08 |
| kanzure | there's an actual "object" that is created, an instantiation of a class | 00:08 |
| kanzure | yaml is a way of storing this | 00:08 |
| kanzure | the standard way to do this in python is "pickle" but it spits out binary crap that humans can't edit/read/care-for | 00:09 |
| * fenn wonders whether to point at the old diagram with boxes and arrows | 00:10 | |
| futuresoon | so it's that if you had to instantiate the object, then it must be a dependency? | 00:10 |
| futuresoon | am i close? | 00:10 |
| kanzure | "so it's that" <- what? | 00:10 |
| futuresoon | you're finding these serialized objects (instances of a class) and so now you know what they are and that they're dependencies? | 00:10 |
| kanzure | no | 00:10 |
| fenn | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/Skdb.png <- puzzle pieces are (python) libraries, documents are yaml, cylinder thingies are git repositories, hexagons are live python objects | 00:11 |
| kanzure | dependencies are listed out in plaintext and refer to packages | 00:11 |
| futuresoon | kanzure: right that's what i thought earlier | 00:11 |
| kanzure | ok writing down a list of dependencies is easy. it's a list | 00:11 |
| kanzure | every single data formatting language will have the ability to do lists :) | 00:11 |
| futuresoon | heh | 00:11 |
| fenn | uh. | 00:11 |
| kanzure | well i would hope so | 00:12 |
| futuresoon | i thought only perl can do lists!!!! | 00:12 |
| futuresoon | :-P | 00:12 |
| fenn | the generalization problem i was talking about earlier means that each dependency is actually a query | 00:12 |
| kanzure | you must be older than me | 00:12 |
| kanzure | fenn: well yes that's not implemented yet | 00:12 |
| fenn | power output > 50W or whatever | 00:12 |
| kanzure | there's some code in tests/test_dep.py | 00:12 |
| kanzure | but it's only partly working now with booleano | 00:12 |
| kanzure | it's basically a way of building up a hierarchical boolean algebra tree | 00:12 |
| futuresoon | the logic circuits like air and ground transportation? | 00:13 |
| kanzure | and again, we should be able to support any querying language | 00:13 |
| futuresoon | basically the materials i've seen on this mostly include the update from austin pdf | 00:14 |
| kanzure | ideally: we import some thirdparty fancy query language module; we pass it along a list of objects; and it finds the right objects according to the query's parameters | 00:14 |
| kanzure | ok | 00:14 |
| kanzure | more people have viewed that than i originally expected to :) | 00:14 |
| futuresoon | it's good. i had to fill in some blanks googling around but i'm 80% there | 00:14 |
| fenn | people keep saying it's good too, which i find baffling | 00:15 |
| futuresoon | well it stimulates the imagination | 00:15 |
| kanzure | aw fenn doesn't like my presentation :( | 00:15 |
| futuresoon | fenn saying what puzzle pieces, cylinders, etc. mean certainly is one of those blanks | 00:15 |
| futuresoon | that i needed filling in on | 00:15 |
| kanzure | :p | 00:15 |
| fenn | kanzure: arent you supposed to be making a sphere blink or something? | 00:15 |
| kanzure | uhhh | 00:15 |
| * kanzure *blink* *blink* | 00:16 | |
| futuresoon | blinky, the killer app of open source manufacturing | 00:16 |
| kanzure | this is actually for something else | 00:16 |
| kanzure | i was on this indoor localization programming team | 00:16 |
| fenn | they're doing localization with wifi signal strength triangulation | 00:16 |
| kanzure | and so i wrote up this 3d rendering dealy to show where a laptop is in a building | 00:16 |
| futuresoon | nice | 00:16 |
| kanzure | i don't know why though | 00:16 |
| futuresoon | still, pretty cool | 00:16 |
| futuresoon | okay so filling in holes in my knowledge :-) | 00:17 |
| fenn | nah it sucks on the backend | 00:17 |
| futuresoon | back to that | 00:17 |
| kanzure | ok sure | 00:17 |
| fenn | i mean it won't interpolate between checkpoints | 00:17 |
| futuresoon | i'm lost on the querying in multiple languages thing, and what's even queryable | 00:17 |
| fenn | and can't tell the relative locations of nodes | 00:17 |
| * fenn shuts up | 00:17 | |
| kanzure | futuresoon: there are "packages" | 00:17 |
| futuresoon | right | 00:17 |
| kanzure | in the packages that you download, there are catalogs of potential parts | 00:17 |
| kanzure | er sorry | 00:17 |
| kanzure | there are catalogs of particular parts | 00:17 |
| futuresoon | LifeTrac and PowerCube could be packages for openfarmtech, let's say | 00:17 |
| fenn | parts have certain "functionality" - these are attributes that describe what it does | 00:17 |
| kanzure | you can also instantiate new parts by say downloading the screw package and loading it into python and saying Screw("3M") | 00:18 |
| futuresoon | just so i have some concrete things to think on | 00:18 |
| futuresoon | okay | 00:18 |
| fenn | parts also have other attributes like mass and color and favorite time of day | 00:18 |
| kanzure | anyway- in the screw package | 00:18 |
| kanzure | there's a file called "data.yaml" | 00:18 |
| fenn | parts also have derived values that aren't explicitly stated anywhere in the data about them | 00:18 |
| kanzure | and this is essentially a catalog in the data.yaml file | 00:18 |
| futuresoon | grade 3, length 1 in | 00:18 |
| fenn | i.e. what is the neutron cross section of a steel bolt | 00:18 |
| fenn | we can calculate this value but it doesn't exist in the data | 00:19 |
| kanzure | so you can search the catalog of pre-defined parts, but of course that catalog hardly lists all possible screws- like the data that fenn is talking about calculating in the Screw class | 00:19 |
| futuresoon | screws of arbitrary neutron cross sections, arbitrary shape, etc. are not the purpose of the files | 00:19 |
| futuresoon | you're still making design selections | 00:19 |
| QuantumG | ya know, if there was ever an application for all this Semantic Web crap it is parts catalogs. | 00:19 |
| futuresoon | QuantumG: that's why i'm here :-) | 00:20 |
| fenn | yeah it's too bad none of the parts catalogs do it | 00:20 |
| fenn | then we might have some data to work with | 00:20 |
| futuresoon | fenn: because the CMS are limited | 00:20 |
| kanzure | bullshit | 00:20 |
| futuresoon | it's a chicken/egg problem | 00:20 |
| kanzure | i've written CMSes before | 00:20 |
| QuantumG | yep.. and what's more they're the most backwards people around | 00:20 |
| fenn | mcmaster.com has no excuse then | 00:20 |
| fenn | their CMS is totally custom | 00:20 |
| * kanzure nods | 00:20 | |
| futuresoon | kanzure: then you've never written one with a good RDF triplestore because that's taken forever in Drupal to make them interoperate | 00:21 |
| QuantumG | and they're one of the best | 00:21 |
| fenn | that's why there's no excuse | 00:21 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: mcmaster.com doesn't even load in my version of firefox | 00:21 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: it's really amazing how much they fail | 00:21 |
| kanzure | like they've found the most optimal way to fail | 00:21 |
| kanzure | consistently | 00:21 |
| QuantumG | I had a pleasant experience today with a site that actually let me search for solenoid valves by maximum pressure rating | 00:21 |
| kanzure | neat | 00:21 |
| kanzure | where? | 00:21 |
| fenn | "failing optimally since 1982" | 00:22 |
| fenn | that's barely semantic | 00:22 |
| kanzure | what the hell is a reverse compiler engineer doing looking over solenoid valve pressure ratings? | 00:22 |
| kanzure | hee | 00:22 |
| QuantumG | www.ascovalve.com | 00:22 |
| kanzure | :p | 00:22 |
| kanzure | oh wait | 00:22 |
| fenn | building a rokkit | 00:22 |
| kanzure | for your mockingbird.pdf-killer | 00:22 |
| kanzure | right | 00:22 |
| QuantumG | well, actually for a much simpler rocket testbed but yes | 00:23 |
| kanzure | more power to you | 00:23 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: so, i hope that cleared up your question about "what data would be queried anyway" | 00:24 |
| QuantumG | btw, I don't have any trouble with mcmaster in firefox | 00:24 |
| kanzure | huh | 00:24 |
| kanzure | well i'm on a wonky version (iceweasel) that hasn't been updated since early 3.something | 00:24 |
| QuantumG | I'm using firefox 3.5.5 | 00:24 |
| kanzure | also why am i using firefox? :( | 00:24 |
| futuresoon | kanzure: so i can find all packages that contain a certain sized screw. or all packages that can be made given the prerequisites i have, etc.? | 00:25 |
| kanzure | searching for all packages that can be made given your inventory/prereqs is definitely a user-case-scenario that we want to be doable ASAP | 00:26 |
| kanzure | but it doesn't work /quite/ yet | 00:26 |
| kanzure | at the moment there is only one screw package so that's where you'd look for a certain sized screw | 00:26 |
| fenn | is there a way to do that without loading every package into memory? | 00:26 |
| kanzure | also, since screws are fairly standard, we can reliably say "here's how to generate screws" (in the Screw class) | 00:26 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah just look at the dependencies | 00:26 |
| kanzure | owait | 00:26 |
| kanzure | er | 00:26 |
| kanzure | right now loading a package loads everything | 00:26 |
| kanzure | but it wouldn't be hard to do a "soft load" that just touches the metadata | 00:26 |
| fenn | we already do that | 00:27 |
| kanzure | blah okay | 00:27 |
| kanzure | oh right. in load_package? | 00:27 |
| fenn | anyway.. so if it has a screw, metadata.yaml ought to say dependency: screw | 00:27 |
| fenn | meaning the screw package | 00:27 |
| kanzure | yes | 00:27 |
| fenn | so how does futuresoon know to look for that? in his hypothetical query | 00:28 |
| kanzure | what query is it | 00:28 |
| kanzure | i mean, does he have a screw in his inventory potentially? | 00:28 |
| kanzure | or what | 00:28 |
| fenn | all packages that ontain a certain size screw | 00:28 |
| kanzure | it would have to look for packages that depend on screw, and then investigate the part catalog / BOM | 00:29 |
| fenn | "load all packages that dpeend on 'screw' and then look in their BOM" | 00:29 |
| fenn | ok | 00:29 |
| kanzure | maybe a BOM should be in the metadata? | 00:29 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: some of this can be reworked because yaml is friendly like that | 00:29 |
| kanzure | or most of this even | 00:30 |
| futuresoon | kanzure: that would be helpful | 00:30 |
| futuresoon | there's a philosophy going around that all data is metadata | 00:30 |
| kanzure | but if a BOM only says "this part and only this part", then that kind of limits what you can do | 00:30 |
| fenn | not all data | 00:30 |
| kanzure | because lots of substitute parts are valid or workable in some scenarios | 00:30 |
| futuresoon | everything is miscellaneous sometimes you'll hear people say | 00:30 |
| fenn | only people totally disconnected from reality | 00:30 |
| fenn | sensor readings are not metadata | 00:30 |
| fenn | results of an analysis is not metadata | 00:31 |
| QuantumG | http://www.365tomorrows.com/08/01/korean-made/ | 00:31 |
| futuresoon | hmm, i'll have to think about that one i guess, but what i mean is that if you soft load package dependencies because that would be useful to query, it's also useful to query the BOM | 00:31 |
| kanzure | ok | 00:32 |
| kanzure | yeah sure | 00:32 |
| futuresoon | if i'm in a junk yard and i want to know what i can build with the junk i have | 00:32 |
| futuresoon | i need a quick way of identifying my junk and then listing briefly what i can actually do with it | 00:32 |
| kanzure | right now if you load up the "lego" package you also load up the CAD models in the "data.yaml" file, but there's no reason that this has to happen all the time | 00:32 |
| fenn | "soft load" basically means just load the metadata file into yaml, but don't turn it into objects | 00:32 |
| futuresoon | fenn: right | 00:32 |
| kanzure | and in fact, loading up CAD upon loading up a package is probably a silly idea :) maybe that should be reworked | 00:32 |
| fenn | i dont think so | 00:33 |
| kanzure | right now when you turn on the cherrypy server, when someone requests heybryan.org:8081/package/lego/ i see all this opencascade spam as it loads up a few lego STEP files. :) | 00:33 |
| kanzure | (but it only does it once per server bootup) | 00:33 |
| fenn | we had to do the load_cad manually before and it sucked | 00:33 |
| kanzure | ah true that | 00:33 |
| kanzure | i remember being annoyed about that | 00:33 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: one thing that's been on the todo list (mentally but not in the repo's todo list) is an inventory input system | 00:34 |
| futuresoon | what would the inventory input system do | 00:34 |
| kanzure | that would be a major help especially from a replab point of view | 00:34 |
| kanzure | well | 00:34 |
| kanzure | first of all, i've noticed that people *suck* at giving me inventories | 00:35 |
| kanzure | they give their own tools various custom names or just say things differently | 00:35 |
| kanzure | 24" drum sander v. "drum sander" v. sander, etc. etc. | 00:35 |
| kanzure | so, the idea here is to just let them type in a list of machines, tools and parts they have in their inventory | 00:35 |
| kanzure | and then we show them particular packages that they might mean | 00:35 |
| kanzure | so if they say "blowtorch" we'll say "is this what you meant? [sears blowtorch] [no] [yes] [go away]" | 00:36 |
| fenn | its like your wizard, but for inventory | 00:36 |
| * kanzure nods | 00:36 | |
| futuresoon | my wizard? rdf you mean? | 00:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: ok bad | 00:36 |
| fenn | well, just a web form thingy | 00:36 |
| futuresoon | definitely sounds doable in drupal/rdf | 00:36 |
| futuresoon | yup | 00:36 |
| kanzure | well it doesn't matter what it is in.. | 00:36 |
| fenn | doesnt even matter what framework since it gets translated to yaml in the end | 00:36 |
| kanzure | as long as the inventory can be loaded up into python objects | 00:36 |
| kanzure | heh | 00:36 |
| kanzure | stop reading my brain waves | 00:36 |
| kanzure | fdjkafl;jadj;ajfa | 00:36 |
| kanzure | i swear there's some "interference" or something | 00:37 |
| * fenn turns off kanzure's korean implant | 00:37 | |
| fenn | btw the fries were soggy | 00:37 |
| kanzure | fenn has been nearly 10m from me at all times for the past 6 months | 00:37 |
| fenn | that's scary isn't it | 00:37 |
| kanzure | (on average) | 00:37 |
| kanzure | yes | 00:37 |
| fenn | well it wasn't my idea was it? | 00:37 |
| futuresoon | this doesn't sound like a one time issue though---there are probably lots of things that you'd like to provide a user an interface to generate machine readable data | 00:37 |
| kanzure | er | 00:38 |
| kanzure | if we can generate it then why do we need the user | 00:38 |
| fenn | guide the user | 00:38 |
| futuresoon | i don't mean to create the <xml></xml> tags | 00:38 |
| futuresoon | but to put stuff BETWEEN the tags | 00:38 |
| QuantumG | why is it that whenever I read a php "tip" page I can't help but assume the person writing it is a moron? | 00:38 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: i can't help it either. but what is a "tip" page? | 00:38 |
| fenn | QuantumG: because you can't help but assume everyone is a moron | 00:38 |
| fenn | this fact has been established.. next! | 00:39 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: anyway yes i agree that wizards are nice and pretty | 00:39 |
| QuantumG | ya know "the echo command in php seems to be really slow, how can I make it faster?" | 00:39 |
| kanzure | wtf | 00:39 |
| fenn | "run it on localhost" | 00:39 |
| kanzure | wait who uses echo in php? | 00:39 |
| futuresoon | i use print personally | 00:39 |
| kanzure | i've started to notice that some people have been using php scripts in their shells | 00:40 |
| kanzure | and i don't know why | 00:40 |
| fenn | hammer, meet nail | 00:40 |
| kanzure | php5-cgi my_script.php | 00:40 |
| futuresoon | basically | 00:40 |
| QuantumG | believe it or not, the moronic answer is "put ob_start() at the start of your function" and the in-depth answer is "it's called bandwidth, idiot." | 00:40 |
| kanzure | oh man, i remember using ob_start | 00:40 |
| kanzure | but that's to prevent output | 00:40 |
| kanzure | and to capture it into a buffer | 00:40 |
| kanzure | am i talking out of my ass? wait, don't tell me. i don't actually care about php | 00:41 |
| kanzure | http://php.net/ob_start | 00:41 |
| QuantumG | ya.. so then your script finishes with a nice full buffer and the web server dumps it all at once.. so drooling php user says "see, faster!" | 00:41 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: have you ever seen people using libcurl in their php scripts? | 00:42 |
| QuantumG | like there's any sensible way to "optimize" php | 00:42 |
| kanzure | i've been seeing a lot of recently because i've started hanging out in stupidville | 00:42 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: sure | 00:42 |
| kanzure | oh man.. it's terrible | 00:42 |
| kanzure | futuresoon: please never ever query stuff with libcurl on the backend of your web server | 00:42 |
| QuantumG | just about anyone who does paypal integration does it | 00:42 |
| futuresoon | kanzure: ok | 00:42 |
| kanzure | make that a separate daemon or something | 00:42 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: ah that's true | 00:43 |
| kanzure | uhm. | 00:43 |
| futuresoon | no doubt that php is an awful awful language | 00:43 |
| QuantumG | its certainly better than the horrid code paypal supply | 00:43 |
| kanzure | yes but i've seen people using libcurl for writing web spiders | 00:43 |
| QuantumG | but that's not hard. | 00:43 |
| futuresoon | i should learn haskell so i can start porting drupal to haskell, but that's not gonna happen | 00:43 |
| QuantumG | haskell is great for programs that require no I/O :) | 00:44 |
| kanzure | huh so none of them? | 00:44 |
| futuresoon | it requires it, it just can't do it :-) | 00:44 |
| QuantumG | bingo | 00:44 |
| futuresoon | not without these monad-majigs | 00:44 |
| kanzure | :) | 00:44 |
| kanzure | i need some sleep | 00:44 |
| kanzure | ybit: you better get your ass on that flight tomorrow morning or else i'm going to be pissed | 00:44 |
| QuantumG | one of my favourite papers is a PhD who wrote a first person person shooter in Haskell. | 00:45 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: why did he.. | 00:45 |
| QuantumG | as in, it took a PhD........ | 00:45 |
| kanzure | isn't that one of the first things everyone writes in any language? | 00:45 |
| kanzure | "oh i know i'll make a FPS!" | 00:45 |
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| futuresoon | in haskell it's truly an accomplishment | 00:45 |
| kanzure | disclaimer: i have never touched haskell | 00:46 |
| kanzure | good night world | 00:46 |
| futuresoon | kanzure: seeya | 00:46 |
| QuantumG | later | 00:46 |
| futuresoon | my understanding is that haskell is like lisp but awesome | 00:46 |
| QuantumG | haskell is like using a fortune cookie to tighten a bolt. | 00:47 |
| fenn | http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessicaginger/2975166513/ | 00:48 |
| futuresoon | cute | 00:49 |
| fenn | i wonder if it's real | 00:49 |
| fenn | egads http://www.microsoft.com/PRODUCTS/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=dba164ed-4580-4ea6-837c-5f4471a6a036&type=ovr | 00:50 |
| fenn | microsoft makes childrens books now? | 00:50 |
| katsmeow-afk | programming the suck,, i mean educating the customers early | 00:51 |
| QuantumG | "Don’t feel foolish if you haven’t heard of a stay-at-home server. You too can have one, and be one of the cool families on the block. " | 00:52 |
| fenn | guessing this is probably more likely to lead to a weird fetish than have its intended purpose: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jessicaginger/2499699250/ | 00:56 |
| katsmeow-afk | lol | 00:57 |
| katsmeow-afk | too late, i already heard of the fetish(es) | 00:57 |
| fenn | i wonder if my family is doing this secretly http://gingery.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/jessica-charlesworth_a1_poster_v7.jpg | 01:02 |
| futuresoon | fenn: each of these !lego things is a different means of constructing a generalized lego-like thing | 01:16 |
| futuresoon | my terminology is off i know | 01:17 |
| futuresoon | but i have a technic pin, a round lego, etc. | 01:17 |
| futuresoon | what are the interfaces for is another thing i don't get | 01:18 |
| futuresoon | anyway, it's time for bed i guess | 01:18 |
| fenn | the grammar.yaml file gives example lego bricks for each interface type | 01:19 |
| futuresoon | okay | 01:19 |
| futuresoon | i mean the interfaces are for the whole b-rep thing? | 01:19 |
| futuresoon | or is that all done in cad | 01:19 |
| fenn | the interface tells you what other interfaces it's compatible with | 01:20 |
| fenn | stud goes into anti stud etc | 01:20 |
| futuresoon | is that exact or probabilistic? | 01:20 |
| fenn | exact | 01:20 |
| fenn | it's all symbol based, no cad involved in determining compatibility at this stage | 01:21 |
| fenn | we were doing some stuff with collision detection but it didnt really work | 01:21 |
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| futuresoon | disconnect | 01:22 |
| fenn | it's all symbol based, no cad involved in determining compatibility at this stage | 01:23 |
| fenn | we were doing some stuff with collision detection but it didnt really work | 01:23 |
| futuresoon | right | 01:23 |
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| fenn | for your amusement, carl sagan fans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpyGhABXRA | 04:51 |
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| ybit | kanzure: i'll call you when i arrive there, about to leave for the airport right now | 06:28 |
| ybit | wtf, i just got an email saying they are overbooked in volunteers | 06:34 |
| ybit | bastards, i have to pay $200 -_- | 06:34 |
| kanzure | ybit: use the speaker code when registering | 07:09 |
| kanzure | "probably british" | 07:11 |
| kanzure | "the FATE institute is a privately endowed qausi-scientific.." | 07:15 |
| kanzure | *quasi | 07:29 |
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| kanzure | hello | 07:29 |
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| kanzure | fenn: turns out anil had modified blocks.py to read from a different file on the server. anyway, it was a one-line fix | 07:36 |
| kanzure | and i didn't see that because the file was some special voodoo variable etc. etc. | 07:37 |
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| kanzure | i'm sitting around in here: http://soa.utexas.edu/csd/ | 08:07 |
| kanzure | i am not impressed. | 08:07 |
| kanzure | these posters.. totally ignore engineering | 08:07 |
| kanzure | http://thebrainobservatory.ucsd.edu/hm_live.php | 08:08 |
| kanzure | the "microtome console" is funny | 08:09 |
| kanzure | i hope todd's device has one of those. | 08:09 |
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| kanzure | /var/lib/gems/1.8/gems/rails-2.3.4/lib/initializer.rb:271:in `require_frameworks': no such file to load -- net/https (RuntimeError) | 08:14 |
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| futuresoon | coppe's zorg blaster lol | 09:08 |
| kanzure | geh? | 09:09 |
| futuresoon | someone put that node up on my stub site | 09:11 |
| kanzure | https://sendsocial.com/ | 09:23 |
| futuresoon | nice idea. what does the postman come by and decrypt the label? | 09:25 |
| kanzure | not sure.. maybe they have a shipping center | 09:27 |
| kanzure | middleman setup? | 09:27 |
| futuresoon | kanzure: i was just playing around just now with rdfcck | 09:39 |
| futuresoon | you have a moment? | 09:39 |
| kanzure | http://lokiworld.org/hexagonal.txt | 09:39 |
| kanzure | yes | 09:39 |
| futuresoon | http://replab.sigmanode.com/admin/content/types/ectype/fields http://replab.sigmanode.com/admin/content/types/ectype/rdf http://replab.sigmanode.com/admin/content/rdf | 09:40 |
| futuresoon | i'd say these 3 links sum up the capabilities (other than vocabulary creation and various data export methods) | 09:40 |
| futuresoon | creating fields, importing vocabularies for re-use, mapping to rdf, and having other statements that i guess would just exist in a file independent of the rest | 09:42 |
| kanzure | why would the BOM be a php function | 09:43 |
| futuresoon | i guess so you could map it to a manufacturers URI, currency conversions, or other operations? | 09:44 |
| kanzure | i think it would be a python function since the rest of the code base is in python :p | 09:44 |
| futuresoon | and the code base should remain in python | 09:45 |
| futuresoon | but 1) that doesn't help for representations on the web | 09:45 |
| kanzure | yes it does | 09:45 |
| futuresoon | well "help" is relative i guess | 09:45 |
| kanzure | i'm not too interested in forms or management interfaces on the web | 09:46 |
| futuresoon | and 2) is that things like maintaining a list of commercial alternatives for items in the BOM would be aided if you were linking to these unique representations on the web | 09:46 |
| kanzure | i know how to generate these | 09:46 |
| kanzure | can you show me an example of rdf being loaded up into a Screw object | 09:46 |
| kanzure | er, not into, i mean as | 09:46 |
| futuresoon | that's why i say the code base should be in python | 09:46 |
| futuresoon | is it not possible to manipulate rdf as the current code base manipulates yaml? | 09:47 |
| kanzure | the current code base doesn't really manipulate yaml.. it manipulates python objects. | 09:47 |
| kanzure | which could be objects in any language | 09:47 |
| futuresoon | python objects that read in yaml | 09:47 |
| kanzure | no | 09:47 |
| futuresoon | okay well what does the yaml do | 09:47 |
| kanzure | it's serialization | 09:47 |
| kanzure | um. the quickest way to show you would be to open up a python interpreter and do this: | 09:48 |
| kanzure | import yaml; yaml.dump({"key": "value", "key1": "value1"}) | 09:48 |
| futuresoon | '{key: value, key1: value1}\n' | 09:49 |
| kanzure | see? | 09:49 |
| kanzure | hm that might not be good | 09:49 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/~bryan/quick_yaml_demo.py | 09:50 |
| kanzure | brb (walking around with another laptop for a sec) | 09:50 |
| futuresoon | i'm afk too, buying yogurt | 09:51 |
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| kanzure | http://s.twimg.com/images/whale_error.gif | 10:49 |
| kanzure | http://ghantoos.org/2008/10/19/creating-a-deb-package-from-a-python-setuppy/ | 11:20 |
| kanzure | http://build-common.alioth.debian.org/cdbs-doc.html | 11:33 |
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| CIA-33 | skdb: kanzure * r e4c8625 /.be/bugs/7c08ab34-f5cc-4b71-aae2-427317482204/values: bug spotted by ybit in core/skdb.py | 15:57 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/presentations/hplus-summit-2009/outline | 15:59 |
| kanzure | http://ybit.ath.cx/images/gnusha.svg | 16:21 |
| QuantumG | my gps tracker should show up today | 16:24 |
| Utopiah | self delivering GPS system , nice :) | 16:24 |
| QuantumG | I was going to attach it to a weather balloon and let it go.. but it occurred to me that I live on the coastline :) | 16:25 |
| QuantumG | might have to drive inland for a few hours first. | 16:26 |
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| kanzure | http://lockhartwoodworks.com/ | 17:55 |
| xp_prg | who cares? | 18:05 |
| kanzure | ybit was asking | 18:05 |
| kanzure | ybit: was this it? http://soa.utexas.edu/people/school#I | 18:38 |
| kanzure | http://springwise.com/ | 18:53 |
| kanzure | http://letsevo.com/ | 18:53 |
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| kanzure | fenn: want to come see the presentation? | 19:56 |
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| kanzure | https://services.google.com/fb/forms/gmailholidaycard/ | 20:50 |
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| ybit | kanzure: yep, that was it | 22:52 |
| fenn | so i'll be leaving sunday afternoon with joseph | 22:52 |
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