| --- Day changed Thu Dec 24 2009 | ||
| ybit | http://www.willowgarage.com/pages/robots | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * ybit wonders if their software would be useful in other projects, http://www.willowgarage.com/pages/software | 00:01 | |
| ybit | Color-Shifting Contact Lenses Alert Diabetics to Glucose Levels :: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2009-12/color-shifting-contact-lenses-alert-diabetics-changing-glucose-levels | 00:05 |
| kanzure | "help everything's going dark!" | 00:19 |
| marainein | that's just diabetic induced retinal detachment | 00:27 |
| ybit | http://gene-quantification.info/ | 00:27 |
| kanzure | nice overview | 00:29 |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_fog :: nice, and it was j. storrs hall who came up with it | 00:38 |
| ybit | it's the first time i've heard of the term | 00:39 |
| ybit | introducted in ~'93 | 00:39 |
| ybit | "Suppose you have your car filled with molecular-sized robots, floating | 00:42 |
| ybit | around in the air. *Lots* of them. Now when an accident occurs, they | 00:42 |
| ybit | need only reach out and grab the assembler/robot next to them, forming | 00:42 |
| ybit | a 3-dimensional interlocking structure. And incidentally transforming | 00:42 |
| ybit | the air in the car from a gas to a solid. Assuming the network extended | 00:42 |
| ybit | down into your lungs and other airspaces in your body, you could drive | 00:42 |
| ybit | into a brick wall at 100 mph without serious injury. " | 00:42 |
| ybit | http://groups.google.com/group/sci.nanotech/browse_thread/thread/4d4e35d85613a7b/3f12131f281d6a59?lnk=gst&q=utility+fog#3f12131f281d6a59 | 00:43 |
| drazak | yeah, except you might puncture a lung if they're not evenly distributed in the aurspace | 00:44 |
| * ybit is distracted tonight | 00:44 | |
| drazak | airspace | 00:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | could you see thru the fog of floating microbots? | 00:47 |
| ybit | so maybe one day skdb will also control utility fog, this would make me happy: "skdb make me a sandwich' and it appears in my hands without robot arms flying all over the place | 00:48 |
| katsmeow-afk | err, even if the lungs were solidified, you could crush all the blood from the heart, which is right there with the lungs, causing a hemmorage somewhere | 00:48 |
| ybit | http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/metadata/noaa-icecore-2475.html | 00:50 |
| ybit | "Records of past temperature, precipitation, atmospheric trace gases, and other aspects of climate and environment derived from ice cores drilled on glaciers and ice caps around the world." | 00:51 |
| ybit | ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/greenland/summit/gisp2/isotopes/gisp2_temp_accum_alley2000.txt | 00:51 |
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| kanzure | ybit: you hadn't heard of utility fog? i thought you read the entirety of orion's arm by now | 00:58 |
| kanzure | i have such a hard time keeping track of what you people don't know | 01:02 |
| kanzure | ybit: computronium? alpha point? omega point? grey goo? femtotech? angelnets? utility sand? hyperfog? | 01:04 |
| ybit | i know all of that | 01:07 |
| ybit | hyperfog is new, it must be the same as utility fog... | 01:07 |
| kanzure | it's more resistant to subversion :p | 01:08 |
| ybit | http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4675f3dade6a8 | 01:08 |
| ybit | hehe | 01:08 |
| kanzure | wtf is up with the hashes in their URLs | 01:08 |
| kanzure | ah right, "foglets" | 01:08 |
| ybit | er... s/all/some :P | 01:13 |
| ybit | angelnets and utility sand are new | 01:13 |
| * ybit is trying to recall when he heard about alpha and omega point | 01:13 | |
| ybit | it was sometime this previous year | 01:14 |
| ybit | i haven't read all of orion's arm yet, distractions ya know | 01:15 |
| ybit | would be nice to have the encyclopedia galactia in pdf format | 01:15 |
| ybit | so i don't have to figure out what to click next | 01:15 |
| ybit | wait, angel nets are what i thought they were | 01:16 |
| ybit | grr, i'm going to bed | 01:17 |
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| technologiclee3 | patent buster: method for keeping track of what contacts in a social network do and do not know through digital or analog means | 02:01 |
| technologiclee3 | this could be implemented by a comparison of record of each members searches viewed articles, videos or other information sources including audio | 02:03 |
| technologiclee3 | representation includes but is not limited to graphical overlays of knowledge maps indicating areas and points of overlapping or diverging knowledge possesion | 02:10 |
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| Utopiah | (regarding yesterday discussion on Lisp "This code is made for walking" cf http://books.google.fr/books?id=EfX0miZllggC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=%22this+code+is+made+for+walking%22&source=bl&ots=HzDGyCy1wB&sig=CGLqVdnan8W6UQcul5HODqOQPEo&hl=en&ei=EVczS9GaLsS64QacoKWqCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22this%20code%20is%20made%20for%20walking%22&f=false and the originial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRkovnss7sg ;) | 05:58 |
| Utopiah | (too bad nobody made a Vocaloid remix of this yet) | 05:58 |
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| eleitl | your machine-phase questions yesterday, Martyn. | 10:12 |
| Martyn | Partial sentence? | 10:13 |
| Martyn | I think I missed a line during the login... | 10:13 |
| eleitl | Do you still have them? | 10:14 |
| eleitl | I talked about them with kanzure, but I don't think you were there. | 10:14 |
| Martyn | About picometer vs nanometer measurements? | 10:15 |
| eleitl | Yeah, and another one I don't recall. | 10:15 |
| Martyn | It was more a comment than a question. After looking what kind of matter exists in the picometer range, and then looking at 32 bit ranges .. I was just offering an opinion that nanometer resolution would probably be sufficient for most of our lifetimes | 10:16 |
| eleitl | You seemed to think pm resolution was equivalent to quark technology, or strangelets, or what have you. | 10:16 |
| eleitl | current proximal probe has less than 1 pm resolution today. You can resolve orbitals, for instance. | 10:16 |
| Martyn | Oh, sure .. but for practical engineering? | 10:17 |
| Martyn | I don't think we've gotten to the level of technology needed for practical subatomic engineering :) | 10:17 |
| eleitl | that is practical engineering, today. | 10:17 |
| eleitl | you can position macroscale assemblies relative to each other with less than 1 pm resolution. | 10:17 |
| Martyn | With less than the resolution of a wavelength of light? | 10:18 |
| Martyn | [[citation needed]] | 10:18 |
| Martyn | To quote wikipedia :) | 10:18 |
| eleitl | Light is huge, 400 nm blue light. | 10:18 |
| Martyn | right. | 10:18 |
| eleitl | Read Science Magazine, plenty of current work there. | 10:19 |
| eleitl | We can sort CO by the isotope on metal surface in UHV. | 10:19 |
| eleitl | We can do many neat things, but few people know for some strange reason. | 10:19 |
| Martyn | I'm reading "Picometer positioning system based on a zooming interferometer using a femtosecond optical comb" now | 10:20 |
| eleitl | that is actually quite recent. | 10:20 |
| Martyn | Yep, which is why I'm having a read :) | 10:20 |
| Martyn | Education = power | 10:20 |
| Martyn | The system realized a resolution of better than 30 pm and a stability of 1 nm. | 10:20 |
| Martyn | Which is frankly amazing | 10:21 |
| Martyn | Okay, then I need to switch to a more practical engineering problem | 10:21 |
| Martyn | handling powers of powers | 10:21 |
| Martyn | because if you want picometer resolution, and only have a 32bit system to measure in .. you've got a problem | 10:21 |
| eleitl | you will find silicon surface resolution enough to resolve orbitals | 10:21 |
| Martyn | 64 bits helps | 10:21 |
| eleitl | my point exactly yesterday. | 10:22 |
| Martyn | Because then you have to deal with micro and macroscale measurements... and macroscale engineering does occur in increments of tens and hundres of meters | 10:22 |
| Martyn | in fact, when dealing with large scale automated manufacturing of .. say .. roads .. it's possible to have kilometers | 10:22 |
| Martyn | So the problem has to be reduced | 10:23 |
| Martyn | "This system is designed to handle target scales between X and Y" | 10:23 |
| eleitl | you need a system which can cover pm and Mm. | 10:23 |
| Martyn | not enough bits | 10:23 |
| eleitl | bits are cheap | 10:23 |
| Martyn | No, they aren't. | 10:23 |
| Martyn | That's the problem .. handling calculations that require a shift register is -very- expensive computationally | 10:23 |
| eleitl | each additional bit doubles your resolution, or the dynamic range | 10:23 |
| Martyn | right | 10:23 |
| Martyn | but processors have only so much range, and you don't want to lock out 32 bit systems | 10:24 |
| Martyn | or need to require a Cell processor (128 bit resolution) | 10:24 |
| eleitl | your IT background is not very extensive, from the sound of it. | 10:24 |
| eleitl | damn, must afk for a while. | 10:24 |
| eleitl | bbl | 10:25 |
| Martyn | so you have to take into account the bell curve .. how many projects require scale pm, nm, mico, mili, centi, deci, m, etc... | 10:25 |
| Martyn | eleitl: That was a bit insulting .. I'm a linux kernel engineer by trade. | 10:25 |
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| kanzure | heh i'm getting ads for virgingalactic tickets in my gmail account | 11:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.galacticjourneys.com/ | 11:48 |
| Martyn | that's funny | 11:48 |
| kanzure | $200k/seat heh | 11:48 |
| Martyn | Heh. | 11:49 |
| Martyn | Well, that's what it will cost for them to continue building out new ships | 11:50 |
| kanzure | well, guess i should get back to work | 11:50 |
| Martyn | Considering the millions of dollars it takes today to get -anyone- up into a suborbital trajectory ... | 11:50 |
| kanzure | i still want to reverse engineer the .sldprt format | 11:50 |
| Martyn | it's a bargain | 11:50 |
| kanzure | do you have any thoughts on how i can do this? | 11:50 |
| Martyn | *nod* | 11:50 |
| Martyn | not many. | 11:50 |
| kanzure | i can break the file up into identifiable subsections | 11:50 |
| kanzure | but there's this chunk of binary data | 11:50 |
| kanzure | now, this is made even harder by the fact that i don't have a local installation of solidworks | 11:51 |
| kanzure | i did at one point but i'm not sure where it ran off to :) | 11:51 |
| kanzure | could someone in here load up files every once in a while and confirm whether or not they are what i claim they should be? | 11:51 |
| Martyn | Well, I certainly can. | 11:55 |
| Martyn | I'll reinstall Solidworks today on my Windows 7 parallels install | 11:55 |
| Martyn | (2010) | 11:55 |
| Martyn | and generate some blank files | 11:55 |
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| kanzure | nah i have blank files | 12:12 |
| kanzure | Martyn: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/sw-reverser.zip have fun | 12:12 |
| Martyn | What's in the file? | 12:13 |
| kanzure | lots and lots of .sldprt files, starting with blank ones, moving up to basic geometric primitives, etc. | 12:14 |
| kanzure | it's about 8 MB | 12:14 |
| kanzure | also includes each .sldprt file saved in 10 other formats | 12:15 |
| Martyn | *nod* | 12:18 |
| kanzure | hm the first bytes are always 1d23 71d5 81da a248 58a8 b298 891b 99ef | 12:28 |
| kanzure | isn't 231d "#"? | 12:29 |
| kanzure | er just 23 | 12:33 |
| technologiclee3 | Martyn: what were you talking about with the 32bits and picometer resolution? | 12:59 |
| Martyn | tech : 32 bits only provides for 4 billion integer resolution | 13:02 |
| Martyn | which means you would be only able to measure four meters, at picometer resolution | 13:03 |
| Martyn | (assuming an unsigned integer) | 13:03 |
| Martyn | There are tricks you can use, to increase your integer sizes (long long) | 13:03 |
| Martyn | however, in the end you add overhead since the processor can't handle numbers that large in one tick | 13:03 |
| Martyn | 64 bit processors, of course, have no such issues | 13:04 |
| Martyn | That is, for example, why a 32bit ARM processor can only address 4GB of RAM. | 13:04 |
| Martyn | (unless you want to use special paging tricks) | 13:04 |
| Martyn | 0 to 2^64 covers 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 | 13:08 |
| Martyn | 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 | 13:08 |
| Martyn | Or 18 exabytes | 13:08 |
| Martyn | So you could measure something about eighteen million kilometers long .. roughly the distance between the sun and the farthest the moon gets from the sun ... in picometers | 13:11 |
| Martyn | Big difference :_) | 13:11 |
| kanzure | you could also use scientific notation | 13:12 |
| kanzure | i know, it's lame to not have a billion zeroes in your integers | 13:12 |
| kanzure | well, 64 zeroes or something ;) | 13:13 |
| Martyn | 1.845 | 13:13 |
| Martyn | × | 13:13 |
| Martyn | 10 | 13:13 |
| Martyn | 19 | 13:13 |
| Martyn | Er .. 1.84*10^19 | 13:13 |
| kanzure | heh | 13:13 |
| Martyn | so 19 zeroes | 13:13 |
| kanzure | no why would you store 19 zeroes? | 13:14 |
| Martyn | ?? | 13:21 |
| Martyn | You're not storing 19 zeros | 13:21 |
| Martyn | you are doing binary math | 13:21 |
| Martyn | which means you need enough bits to -do- the math | 13:22 |
| Martyn | when you talk about picometer resolution, it means you have to be able to do the following: | 13:22 |
| Martyn | 2,445,324,923,210,836,421 + 564,275,345,226,264,211 / ..... etc.. etc.. | 13:23 |
| Martyn | (even though, admitedly, measuring something the distance between the sun and venus .. in picometers .. is a bit do-laly) | 13:24 |
| kanzure | usually when i deal with small scales i just use units | 13:24 |
| kanzure | so i say 19 pm + 15 pm | 13:24 |
| kanzure | what's the big deal | 13:24 |
| kanzure | just say 19 instead of a float representing a trillionth of a meter | 13:25 |
| Martyn | kanzure : We're talking about manufacturing here | 13:25 |
| technologiclee3 | well what is this resoulution for a CAD system? | 13:25 |
| kanzure | Martyn: yes i'm well aware :) | 13:25 |
| Martyn | technologiclee3 : kanzure and eleitl were discussing what the base resolutoin for the model exchange format should be | 13:26 |
| kanzure | actually, no | 13:26 |
| Martyn | eleitl has an interest in pico-scale manufacturing | 13:26 |
| kanzure | well that's true :) | 13:26 |
| Martyn | My apologies, I misundersood though | 13:26 |
| kanzure | yeah i agree it would be a stupid idea to make the file format use picometer resolution for everything | 13:26 |
| kanzure | even, say, 100km designs | 13:27 |
| kanzure | have you ever played with GNU units before? | 13:27 |
| Martyn | although pm scales respresent distances that describe distances of electrons from their nuclei .. and even the nuclei themselves. | 13:27 |
| technologiclee3 | do you have a specific software in mind? | 13:27 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: skdb | 13:27 |
| Martyn | I still say that nm resolution, in 64 bit, is sufficient | 13:27 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: eugen was suggesting we add in support for these multi-scale resolution on CAD parts | 13:27 |
| Martyn | that is enough to describe distances within the -galaxy- | 13:27 |
| kanzure | show me a case where i need a 64bit integer that i can't get by just saying "some number in pm units" or somesuch | 13:28 |
| kanzure | or whatever the appropriate units would be | 13:28 |
| technologiclee3 | there can 2 parts to the program | 13:29 |
| technologiclee3 | one for dealing with the pico/nano/micro world and it's rules and then a general CAD program on top | 13:30 |
| kanzure | right | 13:30 |
| kanzure | right now in skdb you can (sadly) scale down any boundary representation model to as far as you like | 13:30 |
| kanzure | fenn says OCC limits it to 1e-8 or something | 13:31 |
| kanzure | but even then, let's say you remove that threshold | 13:31 |
| kanzure | it still would let you scale it down as small as you like | 13:31 |
| kanzure | which isn't exactly useful because at some point, you hit atoms | 13:31 |
| kanzure | and finite resolution, and the boundary-representations are usually curved in weird ways that atoms just don't look like :) | 13:31 |
| technologiclee3 | there can be a solar system / galaxy scale for bigger projects, but that can wait for now | 13:31 |
| kanzure | so i don't know how to mediate that "threshold" between the point where you have a boundary representation and you get atoms | 13:32 |
| kanzure | if you take Martyn's idea, everything is automagically in atomic resolution *always* | 13:32 |
| technologiclee3 | it's the granularity of the material | 13:32 |
| technologiclee3 | and the forces involved | 13:32 |
| kanzure | Martyn: is that right? | 13:32 |
| kanzure | Martyn: you were thinking of a representation of CAD models that would be based on atoms and scalable to large structures? | 13:33 |
| Martyn | I was | 13:33 |
| technologiclee3 | if it is just the model that is fine it can have that precision whether we can manufacture to those tolerences or not, it only matters it you want to simulate - or if the structure is very small | 13:34 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: if i gave you a 2D or 3D curve that was differentiable at all points, could you write a program to figure out the right sequence of atoms that would construct that curve? with correct bonds etc. using nanoengineer1 | 13:34 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm not too worried about simulation. i think someone else should handle that | 13:34 |
| Martyn | In fact, I was just thinking that you set the base resolution to some reasonable real world distance that is likely to be used in the project | 13:34 |
| kanzure | Martyn: :p sounds like you're a planck-length advocate | 13:35 |
| Martyn | nm seems like a good one, because 2^32 nm is a very large object | 13:35 |
| kanzure | planck? plank? | 13:35 |
| Martyn | but one nm describes a small one nicely | 13:35 |
| Martyn | and everything in between is likely a useful measurement for manufacturing | 13:35 |
| Martyn | ( nm nicely describes colors too ..) | 13:35 |
| technologiclee3 | theoretically - i could get it done more quickly by finding a real programmer - at this point i could look up a structure of a given diameter. NE-1 will let you put an atom wherever you want and bond it - then one - does Energy Minimization | 13:36 |
| Martyn | in 32 bits, the maximum size of an object is still 4 meters, but in 64 bits .. well .. you're in great shape | 13:36 |
| kanzure | Martyn: i still think you're bullshitting me. in skdb we have had thousands of km long objects | 13:37 |
| kanzure | we just say "the length is 100km" | 13:37 |
| Martyn | Sure, because you're saying that a variable base is desireable, which frankly I can agree with | 13:37 |
| kanzure | what is a "variable base" | 13:38 |
| Martyn | The smallest unit of measure you can break the project down into | 13:38 |
| Martyn | or need to represent | 13:38 |
| Martyn | i.e. how accurate do you need to be on an object that you're describing that is .. say .. 1km in size | 13:38 |
| Martyn | If you have to be accurate to a mm, you're in good shape ... | 13:38 |
| kanzure | on the question of accuracy, you can also get some extra umph out of doing it algorithmically | 13:39 |
| Martyn | if you have to be accurate to a nm .. then you're going to have an interesting time .. | 13:39 |
| kanzure | even if you need sub-mm in your example | 13:39 |
| Martyn | *nod* | 13:39 |
| Martyn | it's all theoretical | 13:39 |
| kanzure | for instance a repeating set of 4 atoms to make up a 1km object | 13:39 |
| Martyn | give me a practical object :) | 13:39 |
| technologiclee3 | the chemists like the angstrom or 1/10 of a nm - which is fine for the program - the user may prefer to see things in engineering notation nm,UM, mm | 13:39 |
| kanzure | Martyn: just saying, it seems like a non-problem | 13:39 |
| Martyn | Might be. Lets see what happens during implementation | 13:40 |
| Martyn | I'm a practical man, and I like Things that work now. | 13:40 |
| kanzure | ok great | 13:40 |
| Utopiah | ( OS House : Supplying a platform that shares drawings and construction information in an open source way http://www.os-house.org/ ) | 13:40 |
| Martyn | SPEAKING of things that work now ... I'm going to get back to getting my new nozzle drawn up in SolidWorks today | 13:41 |
| Martyn | So I can have a faster and more accurate makerbot | 13:41 |
| technologiclee3 | so, say SKDB is doing a reprap build or such - it just needs to know that the tool places 1/10 of a millimeter or whatever on each pass | 13:41 |
| Martyn | right. | 13:41 |
| kanzure | yep | 13:41 |
| kanzure | Martyn: what i'm still confused about is the actual features that are needed to satisfy eugen's requests | 13:42 |
| kanzure | erm | 13:42 |
| Martyn | (The head I'm working on right now will have a 0.18mm nozzle hole, and the tip is 0.20mm ... that's going to be good enough for most of my needs for rapid prototyping ) | 13:42 |
| kanzure | i guess that was just a chemical binding operation | 13:43 |
| kanzure | so that's what needs to be described. there's no chemical reaction tools yet in skdb | 13:43 |
| technologiclee3 | until you want to hook up an ion beam to it... then ... what if you just consider atoms and molucles as parts? | 13:43 |
| Martyn | I still have to figure out how I'm going to improve the MakerBot's accuracy so that it can position the head with 0.1mm accuracy | 13:43 |
| kanzure | what else would they be but parts? | 13:43 |
| Martyn | I have some rotatry optical encoers... | 13:44 |
| kanzure | Martyn: is it windy in your neck of the woods? | 13:44 |
| * Martyn shrugs | 13:44 | |
| Martyn | I'm going to worry about things that exist :) | 13:44 |
| Martyn | VERY | 13:44 |
| kanzure | yeah.. hm. | 13:44 |
| Martyn | gusts that are bending trees over | 13:44 |
| kanzure | yes | 13:44 |
| Martyn | Solidworks installed! Woot. | 13:44 |
| technologiclee3 | so does SKDB interface with any reprab driver software yet? | 13:45 |
| Martyn | I found my license key .. it was hiding at the bottom of a box, in the back of the closet, labeled "misc stuff thrown in at last minute" | 13:45 |
| kanzure | technologiclee3: no, i don't have a reprap to play with :( | 13:45 |
| Martyn | kanzure : See what I mean? | 13:45 |
| kanzure | hm? | 13:45 |
| Martyn | kanzure : PRACTICAL first :_ -grin- | 13:45 |
| Martyn | I have a makerbot you can play with.. it's rep-rap-ish | 13:45 |
| kanzure | how is that practical? it's all the way over there | 13:45 |
| Martyn | I'll bring it to the space once we have things set up :) | 13:45 |
| Martyn | and I'm reasonably sure it won't be damaged | 13:46 |
| kanzure | oh you're thinking about the future | 13:46 |
| Martyn | Just a short way into the future... a few weeks. | 13:46 |
| technologiclee3 | we have internet - tools could be networked like printers | 13:46 |
| Martyn | Yep | 13:46 |
| kanzure | Martyn: hey did the techshop epilog laser have any cupsd drivers? | 13:46 |
| Utopiah | technologiclee3: IPv6 and APIs on every production mean | 13:46 |
| technologiclee3 | or if you own the printer you could 'permit' prints as one sees fit | 13:46 |
| kanzure | i haven't been able to find non-windows-drivers for the laser cutters | 13:46 |
| Martyn | kanzure : No. | 13:48 |
| Martyn | kanzure : Epilog doens't play well with CUPS | 13:48 |
| kanzure | that's sad | 13:48 |
| Martyn | Why? | 13:48 |
| Martyn | CUPS doesn't handle vector | 13:48 |
| Martyn | and epilog isn't postscript based | 13:48 |
| kanzure | is there a vector-based linux-compatible print server? | 13:49 |
| Martyn | kanzure : The J-TEC laser cutters from China have linux drivers | 13:49 |
| kanzure | huh. | 13:49 |
| Martyn | The program directly drives the J-TEC through USB | 13:49 |
| kanzure | the program? so it's not through kernel-land? | 13:49 |
| Martyn | and uploads bitmaps for etch, vector data for cut | 13:49 |
| Martyn | no, it's all userspace | 13:49 |
| Martyn | there are no kernelspace laser cutter drivers, nor would I expect there to be any | 13:49 |
| kanzure | the emc peeps do kernelspace for controlling their cutting machines | 13:50 |
| Martyn | almost all laser cutters available today operate on a "transfer job to cutter" queue mechanism | 13:50 |
| kanzure | yeah but that doesn't let you do real time feedback | 13:50 |
| Martyn | well, they take advantage of realtime extensions in the kernel, but that's a different kettle of fish | 13:50 |
| kanzure | sure. | 13:50 |
| kanzure | another thing for the todo list | 13:50 |
| Martyn | Wow... this apple is faster at running Solidworks through emulation .. than my laptop was at doing it in real hardware. That's sad :) | 13:51 |
| kanzure | what emulator? | 13:51 |
| kanzure | vmware? | 13:51 |
| kanzure | virtualbox? bochs? er.. running out of ideas | 13:52 |
| Martyn | parallels | 13:52 |
| Martyn | v5,0 | 13:52 |
| kanzure | Martyn: sometime later in the week would you be willing to help ybit or me package up skdb or one of its depenencies (pythonocc) into a .deb? | 13:53 |
| kanzure | or a .dmg if you're familiar with that | 13:53 |
| technologiclee3 | i tried to use BitRock Install Builder once - didn't quite get it | 13:57 |
| technologiclee3 | http://installbuilder.bitrock.com/index.html?_kk=install%20builder&_kt=e1792f00-d034-4706-a141-c07be87ac93e&gclid=CK3bkNbt754CFRKenAodymUULA | 13:58 |
| kanzure | making a .deb is a long process the first time you do it, i hear | 13:58 |
| kanzure | half the time i can't even remember where i put the intermediate files, and i take good care of my path structures.. blah. | 13:58 |
| technologiclee3 | that .deb for NE-1 i saw did not have the dependencies - i do not see how it was different form the tar.gz download | 13:59 |
| kanzure | it didn't have any dependencies? | 13:59 |
| Martyn | kanzure : I'd be happy to teach you, sure. | 13:59 |
| kanzure | Martyn: have you done it before? | 13:59 |
| Martyn | many times. I'm an Ubuntu maintainer | 14:00 |
| kanzure | does ubuntu have the same debian-dev-server-ring setup going on? | 14:00 |
| Martyn | yep | 14:00 |
| Martyn | even more so | 14:00 |
| technologiclee3 | if you want some atoms ready to go in Ubuntu... http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg1405690.html | 14:01 |
| kanzure | i still don't see the point of nanoengineer1 | 14:01 |
| kanzure | you shouldn't have to "see" DNA | 14:01 |
| kanzure | isn't the sequence more important? | 14:02 |
| technologiclee3 | the point is that it is a design tool - the sequnce can be modeled to atomic detail - the oragami feature leats you work at a larger scale | 14:02 |
| technologiclee3 | it is a set of parts that should be in SKDB http://www.dana-farber.org/abo/news/press/2009/scientists-create-custom-three-dimensional-structures-with-dna-origami.html | 14:04 |
| technologiclee3 | the atoms make the DNA and the DNA makes the parts - all that can be ignored by the person who wants to make the parts into a material - which is used to make somethink like a road that extends for kilometers and absorbs sunlight to make electricity | 14:06 |
| technologiclee3 | had to do a reinstall - lets see if i can get NE! running in lucid - http://nanoengineer-1.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=NE1_Build_Requirements#Linux | 14:14 |
| technologiclee3 | this is about to turn into an NE! install session... Hey Bryan about that NE! install script.. you skil python2.5 and g++ | 14:19 |
| technologiclee3 | skip* | 14:19 |
| technologiclee3 | also skip the qt4-devtools=4.3.5-0ubuntu3, libqt........ i sent you the script i was working on - which gets 1/2 way thru the install and after the pyqt the rest is just cut and past here it is fot the others http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcY64lRR9IiPZGMyNjg4OXhfMTE0Z2t0a2poZ3g&hl=en | 14:25 |
| technologiclee3 | *set root pwd....* | 14:43 |
| technologiclee3 | apt-get install build-essential | 14:43 |
| technologiclee3 | oops wrond box | 14:43 |
| kanzure | okay | 15:05 |
| kanzure | i get stuck elsewhere because of some bad drivers on my laptop (i965) | 15:05 |
| kanzure | anyway if i boot into an earlier kernel i'll be able to play with it, but the downside is that wifi won't | 15:06 |
| technologiclee3 | dam the PyQt i need is not there anymore - NE1 s got one foot in the grave if its dependencies are outdated... http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/static/Downloads/PyQt4/PyQt-x11-gpl-4.4.4.tar.gz | 15:21 |
| technologiclee3 | anyone where i can get that file - it was the onlu place on the net i could find | 15:22 |
| kanzure | it worked for me with python-qt4 | 15:23 |
| kanzure | and python-qt4-gpl | 15:23 |
| kanzure | (this was on the debian repositories) | 15:23 |
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| technologiclee3 | berkley db 4.5 is longer in the reposotories either 4.6 and change the path or , go find 4.5 | 15:42 |
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| technologiclee3 | well, i saw the start screen then i got ImportError: No module named idlelib.Delegator | 15:52 |
| technologiclee3 | l@EV007:~/ne1/112/cad/src$ python2.5 main.py | 15:52 |
| technologiclee3 | ImportError: No module named PyQt4.Qt | 15:53 |
| kanzure | sudo apt-get install idle-python2.5 | 15:54 |
| kanzure | sudo apt-get install python-qt4 | 15:54 |
| technologiclee3 | they installed - same error | 15:58 |
| kanzure | try just: sudo apt-get install idle | 15:59 |
| technologiclee3 | same error | 16:01 |
| technologiclee3 | here is the packages doc they are doing for fedora http://fitzsim.org/packages/NanoEngineer-1.spec | 16:02 |
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| kanzure | hello Redeemer | 18:03 |
| Redeemer | Hey, whats up. | 18:05 |
| kanzure | randallagordon: thanks for the feedback | 19:12 |
| kanzure | blargh, spammers: http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?hl=en&enc_user=C2762x8AAADcopddhEWYDBSbYFWiBPHyk_b8rF62FW1FmIgf2U6ekw | 20:31 |
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| randallagordon_ | howdy | 22:13 |
| kanzure | hi | 22:15 |
| randallagordon_ | Still tweakin' your site? | 22:17 |
| kanzure | yes :) a few tweaks here, a few tweaks there | 22:20 |
| randallagordon_ | ah, evolution ;) | 22:22 |
| randallagordon_ | working on a site for a new client myself...custom WordPress template | 22:22 |
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| kanzure | who is peer infinity? | 22:46 |
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