| --- Day changed Thu Mar 04 2010 | ||
| CIA-47 | pyscholar: kanzure master * r5378eee / doc/url.txt : link to python-spidermonkey to execute javascript in a python script - http://bit.ly/bj4JmY | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| CIA-47 | pyscholar: kanzure master * rec1e91f / sciencedirect.py : given a link to an abstract on sciencedirect.com, sciencedirect.py downloads the PDF - http://bit.ly/9iQz47 | 00:02 |
| kanzure | can i hear a "hell yeah"? | 00:02 |
| kanzure | no more waiting for annoying popups to get a pdf from sciencedirect :) | 00:05 |
| katsmeow-afk | i did that with php years ago for a few sites | 00:06 |
| kanzure | yeah but you never released your code | 00:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | actualy, i did | 00:06 |
| kanzure | link | 00:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | ancient history, it's all gone | 00:06 |
| katsmeow-afk | the sites don't exist anymore | 00:07 |
| kanzure | is it on web.archive.org at all? | 00:07 |
| kanzure | `papers2/thesplitcp/Methyl group as a probe of chirality in Raman optical activity.pdf' -> `/mnt/externia/nature/papers2/thesplitcp/Methyl group as a probe of chirality in Raman optical activity.pdf' | 00:07 |
| * kanzure hopes this will finish in time | 00:07 | |
| katsmeow-afk | i doubt it, other pages i had online in that time frame weren't archived either | 00:08 |
| katsmeow-afk | re-posting... | 00:09 |
| katsmeow-afk | heh, even as a .txt, and no opening <? , the server is trying to run it | 00:12 |
| katsmeow-afk | http://designerthinking.com/temp/proxydemo.7z | 00:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | i broke it with text, fill in your auth tests as neded | 00:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | the only site i left in it may not be the same format any more, i didn't test | 00:14 |
| katsmeow-afk | with intellicast serving 150k html for a 60k gif, and me on dialup, i often simply cold not get their pages before timeouts occured | 00:15 |
| kanzure | weird, diveintopython.org is down :( | 00:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | dive in topy thon, eh? | 00:16 |
| katsmeow-afk | ;-) | 00:17 |
| katsmeow-afk | i think that was php v4.x too, maybe v5 | 00:17 |
| CIA-47 | pyscholar: kanzure master * r3093f44 / (9 files in 5 dirs): sweet-and-simple DOI resolver - http://bit.ly/dx4Z4t | 00:26 |
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| kanzure | hello | 00:29 |
| katsmeow-afk | hello | 00:30 |
| ybit | http://truecompanion.com/roxxxy-gallery.html | 00:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | erg | 00:30 |
| ybit | sex robot, what's not to like | 00:30 |
| katsmeow-afk | a blow up doll with a tape deck | 00:31 |
| katsmeow-afk | golly | 00:31 |
| ybit | 22:30 < QuantumG> kanzure: the ACM programming competition does something like that | 00:31 |
| ybit | i attended one of these about 4 years ago | 00:31 |
| ybit | ibm sponsored most everything | 00:31 |
| QuantumG | I hate them | 00:32 |
| spvensko_ | bkero: you owe me a beagleboard write up :P | 00:32 |
| QuantumG | they're math competitions with a programming element | 00:32 |
| bkero-legacy | spvensko_: I do? | 00:33 |
| kanzure | spvensko_: you might be able to get fenn to do that writeup | 00:33 |
| bkero-legacy | What do you want to know about one? I have one in a box that I fried. | 00:33 |
| spvensko_ | yes bkero, you were talking about doing a beagle board write up several months ago in #bioinformatics, i'd forgotten about it til i saw you in here | 00:34 |
| bkero-legacy | spvensko_: I can answer any questions you might have :) | 00:34 |
| spvensko_ | i may PM you some questions a little later if that's okay, i don't want to be too off-topic in here | 00:34 |
| kanzure | how'd you fry the poor guy :( | 00:34 |
| kanzure | spvensko_: nah, some of us are building wearable computers | 00:35 |
| kanzure | out of beagleboards | 00:35 |
| kanzure | so it's on-topic | 00:35 |
| spvensko_ | ah, in that case, what did you use for a "case"? i've look at altoid cans, etc. but i'm not sure what's suitable since i don't have one in front of me | 00:35 |
| bkero-legacy | My crimpers accidently slipped on my desk and fell onto my keyboard tray, right on top of the beagle. | 00:35 |
| bkero-legacy | spvensko_: There's a nice $20 jigged acrylic case that is sold for the beagleboard. | 00:35 |
| spvensko_ | ouch | 00:36 |
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| kanzure | gah why is #bioinformatics more interesting tonight | 01:03 |
| kanzure | you guys suck | 01:03 |
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| kanzure | hey tari | 01:09 |
| tari | hi | 01:09 |
| kanzure | what brings you here? :) | 01:09 |
| tari | just checking it out | 01:09 |
| kanzure | we were just talking about microfluidics and lab-on-a-chip stuff a few minutes ago | 01:09 |
| tari | couldn't tell you what those are, unfortunately | 01:10 |
| kanzure | er, miniaturized biology laboratory :) | 01:10 |
| tari | on a chip, though? | 01:10 |
| * kanzure nods | 01:10 | |
| tari | well, what kind of chip? | 01:11 |
| kanzure | plastic of some sort | 01:11 |
| tari | so chemical reactions through small tubes? | 01:12 |
| kanzure | yep. but also biology lab equipment on a small scale, like sensors and thermocyclers and heat and the cold | 01:13 |
| kanzure | i'm growing kind of tired over here so i might randomly fall asleep | 01:13 |
| tari | alright then | 01:13 |
| kanzure | but last year when i was talking about this, this happened: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/msg/1197606e3c3dc439 | 01:14 |
| kanzure | it might make for interesting reading (maybe not) | 01:14 |
| kanzure | depends on how you got here :) | 01:14 |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 40 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 40 normal] | 01:14 | |
| tari | I found heybryan.org | 01:15 |
| kanzure | oh! that's me :) | 01:15 |
| tari | I had a feeling it was | 01:16 |
| tari | nice that some people actually talk on some of these irc channels | 01:18 |
| * katsmeow agrees | 01:19 | |
| ybit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law | 01:20 |
| * katsmeow slowly leans over and falls asleep | 01:21 | |
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| ybit | Utopiah: do you have the Facts on File - Genetics Edition 2010 book? The torrent has been stalled for days now | 01:28 |
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| Utopiah | ybit: nop sorry | 02:15 |
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| Utopiah | http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/mikrokopter-hexakopter | 05:42 |
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| fenn | "It surprises to find fenn watches that much TV." I have a high hypnotic quotient. I NEVER initiate the tv-watching myself. | 07:05 |
| fenn | "debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." | 07:09 |
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| fenn | the chronicles of externia | 07:15 |
| JayDugger | You are getting very sleepy... | 07:16 |
| JayDugger | Your eyes are getting heavy... | 07:17 |
| fenn | re: beagleboard write-up, wtf is a "write-up"? | 07:17 |
| fenn | my initial assessment is that booting your distro of choicr is harder than it ought to be | 07:18 |
| fenn | JayDugger: i just woke up | 07:19 |
| Utopiah | (KSRM Table of Contents Page http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM.htm | 07:19 |
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| JayDugger | I meant to test your hypnotic quotient, but fell victim to my own mesmeric prowess. | 08:01 |
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| kanzure | http://www.google.com/search?q="Kindly+help+me+in+this+regard" | 08:54 |
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| kanzure | hey hundred-ideas | 09:07 |
| kanzure | how did quantified-self go last night? | 09:07 |
| kanzure | hm also it seems i still haven't replied to your email. this sucks | 09:08 |
| hundred-ideas | hey kanzure it was a little boring | 09:14 |
| hundred-ideas | i stayed for the first hour, which featured "10 minute" talks about the zeo sleep tracker, a user of the zeo sleep tracker and his analytics, a group attempting to to "self futures" prediction or some nonsense | 09:15 |
| kanzure | spvensko: ok, 60GB of nature copied to a fresh external drive | 09:21 |
| kanzure | i'll be taking it by sneakernet to a faster network today | 09:21 |
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| fenn | hmm he left | 09:56 |
| fenn | supermemo is exhausting.. i feel like i'm training for a marathon :) | 09:58 |
| kanzure | told you | 09:58 |
| kanzure | hey how are you running it? | 09:58 |
| fenn | i'm using anki, not supermemo | 09:58 |
| fenn | i guess i should say "srs" as the generic word | 09:58 |
| kanzure | oh yay another TLA | 09:59 |
| fenn | ok ok "spaced repetition" good? | 09:59 |
| * kanzure adds it to his nonexistant collection (er, dictionary) | 09:59 | |
| kanzure | yeah spaced reps | 09:59 |
| kanzure | makes it sound like bodybuilding | 09:59 |
| fenn | blah | 09:59 |
| kanzure | 20 push ups, 50 put downs, 200 putters, 1400 spaced reps | 09:59 |
| fenn | it doesn't convey the sense of an increasing interval | 09:59 |
| fenn | "spaced repetition" makes me think you do the same thing every 2 days or whatever | 09:59 |
| fenn | maybe i'll use "graduated interval" instead | 10:00 |
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| fenn | i dont suppose you want to learn japanese | 10:02 |
| kanzure | sure, why not | 10:02 |
| kanzure | also, i was always taught to never ever log into an IRC network as root | 10:02 |
| kanzure | why hasn't flamt been hacked to hell and back yet? | 10:02 |
| fenn | oh, cool. so, apt-get install anki, then go to file->download shared deck and get the "core 2000 vocab and listening" step 1 | 10:03 |
| fenn | then get ready to memorize memorize memorize! | 10:03 |
| kanzure | couldn't find package anki | 10:03 |
| kanzure | it found pyscrabble though | 10:04 |
| fenn | huh | 10:04 |
| kanzure | libfinance-bank-ie-permanenttsb-perl - perl interface to the PermanentTSB Open24 homebanking | 10:04 |
| fenn | anki is in debian-stable, wtf are you running | 10:04 |
| kanzure | libaqofxconnect5 - library for OFX online banking | 10:04 |
| kanzure | hm | 10:04 |
| kanzure | um | 10:04 |
| kanzure | lenny | 10:05 |
| fenn | http://packages.debian.org/lenny/anki | 10:05 |
| kanzure | ljadkjfadskfdwklfdklfja | 10:05 |
| kanzure | aha, there we go | 10:06 |
| kanzure | for some reason i had *only* lenny/unstable and lenny/volatile | 10:06 |
| kanzure | heh' | 10:06 |
| kanzure | not smart | 10:06 |
| fenn | oh, you should probably start with hiragana | 10:07 |
| fenn | (there's a deck for that) | 10:08 |
| kanzure | it's anki 0.9.6 and there's no "file" or any other menu item with "download shared deck" | 10:09 |
| kanzure | oh, there's deck->import | 10:09 |
| fenn | that's for opening local files | 10:09 |
| kanzure | "not syncing, username or password unset" | 10:09 |
| fenn | not sure where the shared decks are actually hosted | 10:11 |
| fenn | i'll just upload it to you | 10:11 |
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| JayDugger | LOL. Anki has a Newspeak deck. Awesome. | 10:17 |
| fenn | sorry for teh slowness: http://fennetic.net/irc/Hiragana.tgz | 10:19 |
| fenn | untar that in .anki (it's a tarbomb) | 10:20 |
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| fenn | "he" sounds like "hey" and "hi" sounds like "hee" | 10:22 |
| fenn | wo->oh a->ah ra->la fu->hu | 10:23 |
| kanzure | so, i've been working on this dev server that someone left off at my house | 10:24 |
| kanzure | the previous coders were sharing an svn repository | 10:24 |
| kanzure | but it looks like one of them didn't know how to use it | 10:24 |
| kanzure | so they just modified the copy of the svn repo in /var/www/ | 10:25 |
| kanzure | now i'm left trying to figure out what should be kept and what should be thrown away | 10:25 |
| kanzure | i think all the dwoo template changes should stay i guess | 10:25 |
| fenn | burn it all! | 10:25 |
| kanzure | i'd very much like to | 10:25 |
| fenn | you could import it into git and then merge in /var/www | 10:25 |
| kanzure | for some reason /var/log/apache2/* was all owned by root | 10:26 |
| kanzure | but apache2 runs as www-data on the box | 10:26 |
| fenn | i find it's not worth the effort to preserve peoples' weird-ass systems | 10:27 |
| fenn | set it up the correct way, make sure it works, if so you're done | 10:27 |
| fenn | resistance is futile! | 10:27 |
| kanzure | have you ever seen someone developing a website under svn? | 10:27 |
| kanzure | among multiple developers? this is terrible | 10:27 |
| kanzure | how would you know if your change to the php source is going to do what you think it will? | 10:28 |
| fenn | better than no svn? | 10:28 |
| kanzure | you have to commit before you test | 10:28 |
| kanzure | O_o | 10:28 |
| fenn | not necessarily | 10:28 |
| kanzure | do tell | 10:28 |
| fenn | uh, well when i was doing a php website i just ran all the php/mysql bullshit on my laptop before uploading | 10:28 |
| kanzure | yeah but they have these super-large databases of ridiculous size | 10:29 |
| kanzure | which i guess i can remotely connect to | 10:29 |
| fenn | so? | 10:29 |
| kanzure | blah. | 10:29 |
| kanzure | silence! | 10:29 |
| fenn | what does the size matter? | 10:29 |
| kanzure | won't fit on my laptop | 10:29 |
| fenn | then make up some data | 10:29 |
| kanzure | right | 10:29 |
| kanzure | ftp://ftp.1000genomes.ebi.ac.uk/vol1/ | 10:30 |
| kanzure | http://openchemistry.co.uk/ | 10:30 |
| kanzure | more "open" stuff that's really just cc3.0 | 10:30 |
| fenn | what's wrong with cc? | 10:31 |
| kanzure | it usually means it's not software | 10:32 |
| fenn | so? | 10:32 |
| kanzure | so i've learned to doubt that the people who are doing it know what "open source" refers to | 10:32 |
| fenn | right. | 10:32 |
| fenn | well, sometimes the data is good | 10:32 |
| kanzure | isn't nist supposed to be doing this | 10:33 |
| fenn | that's what i thought | 10:33 |
| fenn | we should bomb them | 10:33 |
| fenn | oops did i say that | 10:33 |
| kanzure | edward you might stop you: http://www.fbi.gov/hq/nsb/wmd/images/hrtppe.jpg | 10:33 |
| fenn | oo scary | 10:33 |
| kanzure | (he's the special agent assigned to diybio) | 10:33 |
| fenn | what he doesn't know is that i am also a ninja | 10:33 |
| kanzure | their web page sucks too! http://www.fbi.gov/hq/nsb/wmd/wmd_home.htm | 10:33 |
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| kanzure | hey hundred-ideas | 10:33 |
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| fenn | hundred-ideas: was the "future self" person a red headed british woman? | 10:34 |
| hundred-ideas | fenn: no, it was a finnish? guy who used to work at nokia | 10:35 |
| kanzure | i updated the doc: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/1kfriend.ly.pdf | 10:36 |
| kanzure | i'm thinking: free up to 100 connections or friends, then $25/year and $1 for every 100 extra connections, or some sort of logarithmic price breaks :P | 10:44 |
| kanzure | the current alternative is subscribing people to private mailman mailing lists and managing those mailing lists and sending out updates | 10:46 |
| kanzure | but then people get multiple emails if you subscribed them to more than one of your lists | 10:46 |
| kanzure | and the management overhead kinda sucks for that | 10:46 |
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| kanzure | http://www.synthesis.cc/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=1&tag=LavaAmp&limit=20 | 10:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.synthesis.cc/2010/02/bits-atoms-and-the-future-of-manufacturing.html | 10:49 |
| kanzure | http://gizmodo.com/5457461/atoms-are-not-bits-wired-is-not-a-business-magazine | 10:50 |
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| futuresoon | svn is awesome btw | 10:54 |
| futuresoon | never used it with multiple people, actually, but i don't think that's a problem | 10:54 |
| wonklab | It does pretty well with multiple people as long as they know what they're doing. | 10:56 |
| futuresoon | if it's highly modular, but there's a lot of module permutations to keep track of, svn is good | 10:56 |
| wonklab | Some of the gui wrappers suck, though. | 10:56 |
| wonklab | It's nice writing papers and grants in latex using version control. | 10:56 |
| futuresoon | combinations rather | 10:57 |
| futuresoon | pelletized biomass -> pellet stove -> closed loop steam engine -> hot sauce | 10:58 |
| Utopiah | Meet the new revolutionaries of the Do-It-Yourself cultures VPRO 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqpVe9kNbhg | 11:25 |
| kanzure | wonklab: have you tried distributed revision control like git, bzr, hg? | 11:38 |
| klafka | heh | 11:39 |
| fenn | that gizmodo article pisses me off | 11:42 |
| fenn | <- got trolled | 11:43 |
| klafka | howso? | 11:43 |
| fenn | well, for one "apple is doing it, so it's automatically not a 'revolution'" | 11:45 |
| Utopiah | +1 | 11:45 |
| fenn | 2) single man businesses are not fucking awesome?? | 11:45 |
| fenn | 3) a single man business runs behind production schedule, OMFG | 11:46 |
| fenn | 4) diydrones is cool | 11:46 |
| fenn | i'd continue but nobody cares, and then i'd have to read it again | 11:46 |
| fenn | public service announcement: if you want to print an SVG at kinko's, export to pdf first | 11:47 |
| wonklab | kanzure: I've used git and github a little. | 11:47 |
| klafka | heh | 11:48 |
| wonklab | We've used svn in the lab for a few years, though. | 11:48 |
| klafka | China Is Not A Robot is a great title | 11:48 |
| klafka | or possibly the name for some neo-folk band | 11:48 |
| fenn | i don't get it | 11:48 |
| wonklab | neo-Chinese-folk | 11:48 |
| fenn | what's the alternative to making low-volume batches in china? | 11:49 |
| fenn | making low volume batches yourself? | 11:49 |
| klafka | yeah | 11:49 |
| fenn | how is that any better? | 11:49 |
| klafka | i suppose | 11:49 |
| fenn | i mean, not by hand at least | 11:49 |
| klafka | presumably you will allow yourself better working conditions than the factory owner allows their workers | 11:49 |
| fenn | what if i don't? what if i'm a fucking loser bum and i sleep at the computer lab | 11:49 |
| fenn | they don't use prison labor to do low volume manufacturing.. it's too complex | 11:50 |
| klafka | they don't have to use prison labor they just have to have shitty conditions | 11:50 |
| wonklab | Maybe you could go hang out at the plant in China and see how things look. | 11:50 |
| wonklab | Chill with the workers. | 11:51 |
| fenn | wonklab: i'm going to do that | 11:51 |
| wonklab | Sounds pretty fun to me. | 11:51 |
| fenn | wonklab: i'm just juggling language s right now a | 11:51 |
| klafka | really i think the alternative should be someone should make a real 3d printer | 11:51 |
| fenn | not sure whether to learn korean or mandarin first, or fix up my japanese | 11:51 |
| fenn | "real 3d printer" as in molecular nanotech? nothing else will ever be good enough | 11:52 |
| klafka | probably mandarin | 11:52 |
| klafka | fenn, yep | 11:52 |
| fenn | ok nano boy, get right on it | 11:52 |
| wonklab | Does Japanese make learning Mandarin harder or easier? | 11:52 |
| * fenn whips klafka with a carbon nanonoodle | 11:52 | |
| klafka | i think it has little relevance | 11:52 |
| klafka | i'll stick to biomolecules | 11:52 |
| klafka | these are things i know about | 11:52 |
| klafka | nanotech seems to be complicated physics, p-chem, and chemical engineering | 11:52 |
| klafka | fuck that | 11:52 |
| fenn | wonklab: easier because you already recognize some of the characters and root words, harder because everything's totally fucked | 11:52 |
| wonklab | I'm studying the ribosome, and that's a pretty decent molecular assembler. | 11:53 |
| klafka | also tones | 11:53 |
| klafka | wonklab, did you see the group that created a ribosome taht can accept 4 nucleotide codons? | 11:53 |
| wonklab | Yeah, it seems like there's so much overlap in the characters that that might get confusing. | 11:53 |
| wonklab | klafka: yeah | 11:53 |
| wonklab | That sort of thing has been done before. | 11:53 |
| klafka | oh really? | 11:53 |
| wonklab | yep | 11:53 |
| klafka | lame | 11:53 |
| klafka | or rather | 11:54 |
| klafka | it didn't go anywhere huh? | 11:54 |
| wonklab | And people have been adding new amino acids to the genetic code for several years. | 11:54 |
| klafka | i wonder would a 4 nucleotide codon make tRNA binding more stable | 11:54 |
| klafka | so you have less wobble? | 11:54 |
| wonklab | Beats me. | 11:54 |
| fenn | wobble? | 11:54 |
| wonklab | I think sometimes you get slippage on the ribosome and subsequent frameshifting because some tRNA binds 4 nucleotides from the mRNA. | 11:55 |
| wonklab | There's a guy Peter Schultz who's done a lot of novel amino acid stuff. | 11:55 |
| klafka | fenn, like in the standard genetic code there is a lot of duplication with the first nucleotide because the wrong tRNA binds sometimes | 11:55 |
| fenn | i've heard of that happening in dna copying in some viruses, but not transcription | 11:55 |
| klafka | that's why the genetic code is redundant | 11:56 |
| wonklab | this is in translation | 11:56 |
| fenn | erm, yeah. translation | 11:56 |
| klafka | translation is probably the most error prone isn't it wonk? | 11:56 |
| wonklab | But similar slippage errors happen in transcription, too, I think. | 11:56 |
| * fenn needs a supermemo for molecular biology | 11:56 | |
| wonklab | I don't know if translation is more error prone than transcription. | 11:57 |
| wonklab | Replication is definitely high fidelity, though. | 11:57 |
| klafka | yeah | 11:57 |
| klafka | it seems to matter a lot less for both transcription and translation than replication | 11:57 |
| wonklab | I put some biochemistry in supermemo. | 11:57 |
| wonklab | Like pKas of various chemicals, and I'm working on the metabolic network. | 11:58 |
| klafka | what is supermemo ? | 11:58 |
| wonklab | A flashcard program. | 11:58 |
| klafka | aah | 11:58 |
| fenn | dna slippage: http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/media/tri_nucleotide_repeat-lg.mov | 11:58 |
| wonklab | You use it each day, and it gives you a set of cards for that day. | 11:59 |
| fenn | it's more than just flashcards, it models your forgetting curve and shows the card just before you forget | 11:59 |
| wonklab | And if you miss stuff, it shows up more often. | 11:59 |
| wonklab | There's like an exponential decrease in the frequency of cards you keep getting correct. | 12:00 |
| fenn | anyway the point is you actually learn stuff and remember it ten years later, unlike school | 12:00 |
| klafka | aah | 12:00 |
| wonklab | But you have to keep up with it daily. | 12:00 |
| klafka | i see | 12:00 |
| klafka | idk i'd rather just learn what i use | 12:00 |
| klafka | maybe i should do it w/ theorems though | 12:00 |
| fenn | that's the point though, you don't learn unless you review months and years later | 12:01 |
| wonklab | It's especially good for foreign language vocabulary. | 12:01 |
| wonklab | Yeah, I put in a bunch of math and physics. | 12:01 |
| fenn | modern biology == foreign language | 12:01 |
| wonklab | Stuff that just shows up sometimes, and it's good to have on hand. | 12:01 |
| klafka | do you do it every day? | 12:01 |
| wonklab | heh | 12:01 |
| wonklab | yep | 12:01 |
| wonklab | Otherwise it builds up. | 12:01 |
| klafka | for like how long? | 12:01 |
| wonklab | It depends on how many cards you're putting in and how well you're doing. | 12:01 |
| klafka | aah | 12:01 |
| wonklab | Usually just a few minutes. | 12:01 |
| klafka | wth no osx | 12:02 |
| fenn | use anki, the open source clone | 12:02 |
| klafka | excellent | 12:02 |
| wonklab | I started a couple of years ago. | 12:02 |
| fenn | wonklab: what do you use it for? | 12:02 |
| wonklab | japanese, german, math, chemistry, and biophysics | 12:03 |
| klafka | shit though | 12:03 |
| wonklab | I'm slowly going through kanji. | 12:03 |
| fenn | how does chemistry work? | 12:03 |
| klafka | where was this when i was an undergrad | 12:03 |
| wonklab | I put in pics of organic groups. | 12:03 |
| wonklab | Also, I put in a bunch of stuff for the periodic table. | 12:03 |
| fenn | ok so not reaction mechanisms | 12:04 |
| wonklab | no | 12:04 |
| wonklab | I don't really deal much with chemical reactions. | 12:05 |
| wonklab | And when I do, it's just one or two that are really specific. | 12:05 |
| wonklab | I've got a bunch of stuff from the enzyme commission in, though. | 12:05 |
| klafka | actually i could totally use this for studying measure theory | 12:06 |
| klafka | basically all of math | 12:06 |
| wonklab | Like E.C.6 is ligases and E.C.2.1.1 is methyltransferases. | 12:06 |
| wonklab | I hope I got those right. | 12:06 |
| wonklab | I put in a bunch of stuff from group theory. | 12:06 |
| fenn | yuck | 12:06 |
| klafka | the problem imo w/ math is that you can make really awesome discoveries by sort of cross-pollinating theorems | 12:07 |
| fenn | that sounds like memorizing ISO standard numbers | 12:07 |
| klafka | but it requires you to have really good recall and insight | 12:07 |
| wonklab | There aren't too many E.C. numbers that I care about. | 12:07 |
| wonklab | But it's been useful. | 12:07 |
| wonklab | Sort of gives a general feel for the chemical capabilities of enzymes. | 12:07 |
| klafka | aah | 12:08 |
| wonklab | The top level groups are stuff like oxido-reductases, transferases, hydrolases, lyases, isomerases, and ligases. | 12:08 |
| klafka | that does seem pretty useful actually | 12:08 |
| wonklab | It's got a tree structure to the numbering convention so you can go as deep as you care to. | 12:08 |
| klafka | *nod | 12:09 |
| klafka | sort of like GO | 12:09 |
| fenn | GO? | 12:09 |
| wonklab | I feel like supermemo is good for memorizing a bunch of facts that you can use as scaffolding for building your web of knowledge. | 12:09 |
| wonklab | Gene Ontology | 12:09 |
| klafka | geneontology | 12:09 |
| fenn | hm i'll have to look into that | 12:09 |
| klafka | *nod, that's why it seems especially appealing to me for theorems | 12:10 |
| wonklab | yeah | 12:10 |
| wonklab | Some of the theorems don't make a whole lot of sense at first, but if I get interested, I'll go check them out. | 12:10 |
| wonklab | And math books tend not to give the best motivation for what you really need to know and what you don't. | 12:11 |
| klafka | yeah | 12:11 |
| fenn | gene ontology refers to the chemical pathway? what if the gene doesn't actually do anything (not an enzyme) | 12:12 |
| klafka | gene ontology is a way of representing genes and gene products across species and stuff | 12:12 |
| wonklab | klafka: You ever actually used GO for anything? | 12:13 |
| klafka | yeah wonk | 12:13 |
| wonklab | What? | 12:13 |
| fenn | yeah but they seem more concerned with what the product does than, say, what promoters it has | 12:13 |
| klafka | umm mainly w/ this gene network reconstruction program via literature | 12:13 |
| wonklab | ahh | 12:13 |
| klafka | i used GO to grab geneids for say a related batch of genes, then ran the associated microarray probes through this | 12:14 |
| wonklab | GO seems good for genome annotation. | 12:14 |
| klafka | also i'm trying to do the opposite, basically from microarray annotation build the files that this program needs to do the literature mining | 12:14 |
| klafka | one of the things it needs for every probe id is a genbank accession # though | 12:14 |
| klafka | which is driving me crazy | 12:14 |
| klafka | since they are non-unique | 12:15 |
| fenn | ok now i see it.. "transcription regulator activity" | 12:15 |
| kanzure | oh shit, they be reading my brains | 12:29 |
| kanzure | http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/22/etacts-manage-contacts-email/ | 12:29 |
| kanzure | wonklab: did you ever see fenn's writozyme idea? | 12:43 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ellingtonia/polymerase/ | 12:44 |
| kanzure | lots of notes on polymerase papers in general: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ellingtonia/polymerase/2008-06-03.txt | 12:44 |
| kanzure | beta clamp magic: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ellingtonia/polymerase/2008-06-06_beta_clamp.png | 12:44 |
| kanzure | aha here we go: http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/ellingtonia/polymerase/retarded_polymerase/ | 12:45 |
| fenn | cool, wifi in the park | 13:25 |
| fenn | somehow it took them an hour to read a file from my SD card at kinko's... in the meanwhile i browsed their material sampler, then got bored and uploaded it to the net and downloaded it onto their computer | 13:26 |
| fenn | total cost: $1.18 | 13:29 |
| fenn | even as a bum my time is worth more than that | 13:29 |
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| futuresoon | biomass pelletizer -> pellet stove -> closed loop steam engine -> electricity | 14:19 |
| futuresoon | ya dig? | 14:19 |
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| nsh | i wonder | 14:28 |
| nsh | why we can't oxidise straight into electricity | 14:28 |
| futuresoon | solid oxide fuel cells are awesome | 14:28 |
| futuresoon | i meant something you could build for less than $2k though | 14:28 |
| futuresoon | plus you could put a steam engine on the axle of a car today | 14:29 |
| futuresoon | but a big SOFC won't fit as they exist today | 14:29 |
| futuresoon | or they'd cost a ridiculous amount | 14:29 |
| nsh | hmm | 14:29 |
| futuresoon | SOFC is like your big power system and this is like super-reliable backup for when your fuel cell modules crack | 14:30 |
| nsh | i guess someone else wondered that too then :-) | 14:30 |
| * nsh nods | 14:30 | |
| futuresoon | http://bloomenergy.com is doing well | 14:30 |
| futuresoon | that's a SOFC company | 14:30 |
| futuresoon | my thinking is to take a SCWG supercritical water gasifier and have its standard output go to the fuel cell's standard input | 14:30 |
| futuresoon | that way you could do wastewater treatment as well as organic hydroponics as well as electricity | 14:31 |
| futuresoon | but i'm thinking of stuff that could work today as well | 14:31 |
| futuresoon | so biomass pelletization it is i think | 14:31 |
| nsh | interesting | 14:32 |
| futuresoon | nsh: you know QCAD? | 14:33 |
| nsh | unfortunately not | 14:33 |
| futuresoon | anyone in here know QCAD? | 14:34 |
| nsh | i bet some people in #qcad do | 14:34 |
| nsh | oh, except it's an empty channel | 14:34 |
| futuresoon | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhW4p0tpnAE <---- fairly simple design i think | 14:35 |
| futuresoon | the LifeTrac motor from http://openfarmtech.org/weblog is 5000 inch pounds | 14:35 |
| futuresoon | the casing can be welded metal, say half an inch thick or so | 14:35 |
| kanzure | http://www.locusmag.com/Perspectives/2010/03/cory-doctorow-making-smarter-dumb.html | 14:35 |
| kanzure | http://www.hubbell-automation.com/ in a meeting with these people | 14:36 |
| futuresoon | i've found rollers and a die set for $499 but i wanted to know how one roughly would make specs for a set in QCAD, whether that's difficult or easy | 14:36 |
| nsh | oh, i was hoping that article was about making smarter dumb, kanzure | 14:36 |
| nsh | as in, edging the bell curve to the right a little | 14:36 |
| fenn | what do you mean "know qcad" | 14:41 |
| fenn | it's a drawing program | 14:41 |
| fenn | dataja | 14:41 |
| futuresoon | know enough to say whether it's a drawing program is more than me | 14:41 |
| futuresoon | i'd like a QCAD version of this thing http://ascof.com/uploads/userup/0808/2611135Y412.jpg | 14:42 |
| futuresoon | given that i am a complete beginner, do you think i can figure that out? | 14:42 |
| futuresoon | or would it just be impossible | 14:42 |
| fenn | yeah but i'd use inkscape since it has hex grid capability | 14:43 |
| futuresoon | this thing is basically a pellet mill----1 mm separation between the roller and the die allows a carpet of biomass to form. a motor rotates the die and out pops pellets | 14:43 |
| futuresoon | oh, cool i know someone who's very good with inkscape | 14:43 |
| fenn | your mechanics probably want it in dxf thoguh with means qcad | 14:43 |
| futuresoon | these holes aren't hex btw | 14:43 |
| futuresoon | they're circular | 14:44 |
| fenn | ok do you have a better picture of one of these things? | 14:44 |
| futuresoon | i have video one sec | 14:44 |
| fenn | no, dont want video | 14:44 |
| fenn | want larger pic, directly facing camera, no crap in the way | 14:44 |
| futuresoon | the video takes the machine apart | 14:44 |
| futuresoon | that useful? | 14:44 |
| fenn | no | 14:44 |
| futuresoon | this is the best i could find then | 14:44 |
| fenn | ok, dimensions? | 14:45 |
| futuresoon | these are sort of like it http://www.generaldies.com/index.php?blk=dies-and-roller-shells | 14:45 |
| futuresoon | 1/4 inch thickness die, 6mm die holes | 14:45 |
| futuresoon | don't know much about the rollers, i can only estimate that the die is probably 6 inches diameter | 14:45 |
| fenn | do you actually want to manufacture this? | 14:47 |
| futuresoon | manufacture the die on site at replab using something like these http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=2047&step=4&id=8&top_cat=1 | 14:48 |
| futuresoon | by drilling | 14:48 |
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| futuresoon | source the rollers elsewhere, china probably | 14:48 |
| fenn | don't buy round.. get plate and cut it out on a bandsaw or plasma, then turn if needed | 14:49 |
| futuresoon | why? cheaper? | 14:49 |
| fenn | actually CNC plasma would be the best way to go | 14:49 |
| fenn | onlinemetals says $65/each | 14:50 |
| futuresoon | yeah, so we can bring that down huh | 14:50 |
| futuresoon | okay i'll look into that too | 14:51 |
| fenn | also plate will be flatter and since you're doing cnc plasma you dont have to do anything except let me make the file | 14:51 |
| futuresoon | yeah it's all going to be CNC | 14:51 |
| futuresoon | http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1424 | 14:52 |
| futuresoon | i have this group for uploading files and discussing changes: http://replab.sigmanode.com/pelletmill/dashboard | 14:53 |
| fenn | i dont think 6mm is right | 14:53 |
| futuresoon | why not? | 14:54 |
| fenn | i just drew the grid @ 8 mm and it looks too coarse | 14:55 |
| fenn | trying again 6mm grid spacing | 14:55 |
| futuresoon | okay | 14:57 |
| futuresoon | 6.5 inches was an arbitrary choice. maybe 6 inches is better | 14:57 |
| futuresoon | but stick with whatever you've got | 14:57 |
| futuresoon | another picture http://www.makeyourownpellets.com/wp-content/uploads/image/Pellet_Mil_Die_Rollers.JPG | 15:00 |
| futuresoon | this one's straight on but it's tiny http://img.tradekey.com/images/uploadedimages/offers/1/5/A17402-20090903073115.jpg | 15:01 |
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| fenn | anyone know what "el taragna" means? | 15:06 |
| fenn | could be "teragna" too | 15:06 |
| futuresoon | nope. google translate doesn't know | 15:07 |
| futuresoon | another picture http://www.kingstarmachinery.com/cp/html/?85.html | 15:09 |
| futuresoon | i think there's some kind of groove in the center so that a motor can fit in there and turn the die | 15:09 |
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| kanzure | i have the naturedump uploaded, who wants | 15:11 |
| futuresoon | what's a naturedump | 15:11 |
| kanzure | nature.com | 15:12 |
| futuresoon | web crawler? | 15:12 |
| futuresoon | python? beautiful soup? | 15:12 |
| kanzure | no | 15:12 |
| futuresoon | oh | 15:12 |
| kanzure | just the papers | 15:12 |
| fenn | futuresoon: http://fennetic.net/irc/pellet_grid.dxf | 15:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.etacts.com/about/ | 15:14 |
| kanzure | i'm convinced they don't know what they're doing | 15:14 |
| fenn | futuresoon: on the first image you showed, the left and right arent even the same design | 15:14 |
| futuresoon | i meant the one with the rollers, sorry | 15:15 |
| fenn | anyway those are 5mm holes on a 6mm grid | 15:15 |
| futuresoon | i see | 15:15 |
| futuresoon | so i can open this file in qcad huh? | 15:15 |
| fenn | i dunno, can you? | 15:15 |
| fenn | the problem with etacts is that it's not facebook... | 15:16 |
| fenn | futuresoon: i put the actual stuff you want to cut on the layer named "holes" - click the eye next to layer 0 to hide the construction lines | 15:19 |
| futuresoon | okay. i'm just trying to make qcad's readme correspond to reality atm | 15:20 |
| fenn | hm i learned it by clicking around | 15:20 |
| futuresoon | actually i've abandoned my attempts to install it according to the readme and i'm just apt-getting it so no prob | 15:20 |
| fenn | better strategy | 15:21 |
| futuresoon | yeah for reelz | 15:21 |
| fenn | debian ftw | 15:21 |
| futuresoon | nice | 15:21 |
| futuresoon | this is kick ass | 15:21 |
| futuresoon | i'll upload this with a note like "fenn of #hplusroadmap on freenode did this" | 15:22 |
| futuresoon | sounds good? | 15:22 |
| fenn | kanzure: do you know what's the story behind this massive ad campaign for "single mom discovers trick to turn teeth white at home" | 15:23 |
| fenn | futuresoon: i'm ben lipkowitz if it matters | 15:23 |
| futuresoon | ben lipkowitz it is then | 15:23 |
| futuresoon | i remember that now from that hplus summit video | 15:23 |
| fenn | i get around :P | 15:24 |
| superkuh | kanzure: I'm interested in the nature papers. URL? | 15:26 |
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| futuresoon | fenn: http://replab.sigmanode.com/pelletmill/node/49 | 15:31 |
| futuresoon | that's you, buddy :-) | 15:31 |
| futuresoon | awesome work | 15:31 |
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| futuresoon | yeah i totally see now what you're talking about with the hex grid | 15:32 |
| fenn | futuresoon: openID login doesn't seem to work? "only site administrators can create new user accounts" | 15:34 |
| futuresoon | fenn: oh i haven't tested that yet | 15:34 |
| fenn | ok, just FYI nobody can see anything unless they log in | 15:35 |
| futuresoon | give me your email and i'll make you an account Ben Lipkowitz password: changeme | 15:35 |
| futuresoon | really? damn | 15:35 |
| futuresoon | one sec | 15:35 |
| futuresoon | lemme change that | 15:35 |
| futuresoon | http://replab.sigmanode.com/ | 15:35 |
| futuresoon | it's here at least | 15:35 |
| fenn | so many languages to learn | 15:37 |
| fenn | part of the reason i want to live forever is so i can learn all of them | 15:37 |
| futuresoon | natural or programming? | 15:37 |
| fenn | both | 15:38 |
| fenn | at least they don't invent 50 new natural languages every year | 15:38 |
| Phreedom | fenn: actually a lot more languages die every year :) | 15:48 |
| Phreedom | mostly because they are useless | 15:48 |
| fenn | no way | 15:48 |
| fenn | I don't count "dialect" as language | 15:49 |
| fenn | most computer languages are actually just dialects anyway | 15:49 |
| nsh | SVO | 15:51 |
| * nsh muses | 15:53 | |
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| fenn | guh.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2230_Basic_Kanji.svg | 16:16 |
| fenn | this map is fucking stupid | 16:22 |
| fenn | they're all out of order | 16:23 |
| Phreedom | fenn: you expect any kind of order or system in arcane hieroglyphs? | 16:23 |
| fenn | yes | 16:24 |
| Phreedom | just ask some fairy to fix the pic then ;) | 16:25 |
| fenn | left of lower right corner is where they should start | 16:25 |
| fenn | Phreedom: the map represents the sequence japanese schoolkids are taught | 16:27 |
| fenn | i can't just wave a magic wand at it | 16:27 |
| fenn | ok i was confused, it's actually SKIP (a lame alphabetization system) | 16:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: no, i don't know the person behind that ad campaign, but i hate him anyway | 16:34 |
| ybit | https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArdPHmiX_DgTdE5nSjc5QnZvOVBrWFZ4cTJUWmkzWVE&hl=en | 16:41 |
| ybit | was sent to me | 16:41 |
| ybit | fab lab start up general budget | 16:41 |
| ybit | year 1 total: $312,610, year 2 total: $222,558, year 3 total: $222,558 | 16:42 |
| fenn | uff-da | 16:43 |
| kanzure | why did someone send that to you | 16:47 |
| kanzure | so, i'm buying a: nokia n900, droid nexus, motorola droid, iphone 3GS, palmp ree, blackberry bold 9000/9700/8300/8310/8320/pearl/pearl flip/storm/tour/8800, motorola moto q, anything else? | 16:48 |
| klafka | why? | 16:50 |
| kanzure | because you bitches aren't using my money fast enough | 16:51 |
| kanzure | and it's a cross-platform development environment i'm constructing | 16:51 |
| kanzure | plus testing :/ | 16:51 |
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| klafka | aah | 16:54 |
| klafka | hey i can spend money plenty fast | 16:54 |
| fenn | send me a nexus one plz | 16:55 |
| klafka | haha | 16:55 |
| fenn | why do you want so many cellphones though | 16:56 |
| fenn | don't you know cellphones are evil? | 16:56 |
| fenn | there's no such thing as a "droid nexus" btw | 16:57 |
| kanzure | google.com/phone whatever the heck that is | 16:57 |
| fenn | maybe you meant droid eris | 16:57 |
| fenn | nexus one is the google phone | 16:57 |
| kanzure | Nexus One or something | 16:58 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:58 |
| klafka | yeah | 16:58 |
| kanzure | btw, yes i know this is all evil | 16:58 |
| kanzure | the $2.5k/phone 2-year-contract deal bullshit is kind of annoying too | 16:58 |
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| * ybit can't seem to grep to the part of the logs where the rent-a-car on campus web links were | 17:40 | |
| ybit | anyone recall the name | 17:40 |
| ybit | JayDugger: i think you responded | 17:41 |
| JayDugger | ZipCar? | 17:41 |
| JayDugger | Just awake for a quarter hour, and no coffee yet. | 17:41 |
| ybit | that's it :) | 17:42 |
| ybit | thank you JayDugger | 17:42 |
| JayDugger | You're welcome, ybit. | 17:43 |
| ybit | now, does anyone recall that ground nutrient sensor system that looked like a plant itself? | 17:51 |
| JayDugger | Sorry. | 17:57 |
| kanzure | ybit: i don't have access to that google docs spreadsheet re: fablabs | 18:21 |
| futuresoon | ybit: botanicalls | 18:23 |
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| ybit | kanzure: http://ybit.ath.cx/text/fab_lab_start_up_general_budget.html | 18:32 |
| ybit | futuresoon: that came to mind, but that's not it | 18:32 |
| JayDugger | That's a second-rate oscilloscope. | 18:37 |
| JayDugger | Sorry, on the general budget table. | 18:37 |
| JayDugger | Adequate, at best. | 18:38 |
| JayDugger | Can't gold-plate everything, I admit. | 18:38 |
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| kanzure | ""how a big site like MySpace uses thousands of cloud computing cores to do performance testing on its live site. There are some really great numbers in there from the performance tests, like generating 16GB/second of bandwidth and 77,000 hits/second during testing (not including the live traffic on the site at the time)."" | 18:42 |
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| kanzure | ybit: what's the general terms on distribution of that spreadsheet | 18:45 |
| kanzure | is it cool if i, say, send that to the press | 18:45 |
| ybit | kanzure: i'm not sure, i can let you know when i get a response | 18:52 |
| ybit | it was sent to my from sherry lassiter @ mit | 18:53 |
| ybit | s/my/me | 18:53 |
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| ybit | i'm looking into making the hackerspace affiliated with the fab lab network | 18:53 |
| JayDugger | Which hackerspace, ybit? | 18:54 |
| ybit | the one i'm working on creating here | 18:54 |
| ybit | here == florence, alabama | 18:54 |
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| ybit | the core of the equipment though is about $25-50k | 18:56 |
| ybit | ..the min. set of equipment for a fab lab | 18:56 |
| JayDugger | Opposite corner of the state from Dothan, got it. | 18:56 |
| ybit | 1hr away from huntsville | 18:56 |
| JayDugger | Local news full of doom & gloom about Constellation cancellation? | 18:56 |
| ybit | ? | 18:56 |
| ybit | our's? | 18:56 |
| JayDugger | Yes. I assume so, since Huntsville lies so close. | 18:57 |
| ybit | maybe | 18:57 |
| ybit | 85% of the population ascribes to that type of stuff i'm sure | 18:57 |
| ybit | afk, pizza time | 18:57 |
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| QuantumG | yeah, the Constellation people have fought a very effective campaign. | 19:03 |
| QuantumG | barely 5% of pundits even mention that the Constellation program was never going anywhere cause it has always been underfunded | 19:03 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, I know. Meanwhile Bigelow & Boeing claim 2014 is no problem for their launcher. | 19:04 |
| JayDugger | I'd love to know if Bigelow and Blue Origin talked, but that's pretty off-topic for #hplusroadmap. | 19:05 |
| QuantumG | not if kanzure got the job with BO | 19:07 |
| JayDugger | "Here's your NDA, Meat. In blood, sign here, here, and here. Initial each page, and kindly underline section 35 (c), 'First-Born Child.' You may line through the section on adoption, that's just a standard clause which doesn't apply here." | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | Perhaps B.O. HR doesn't have the same kind of people as my employer, but I doubt it. | 19:09 |
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| fenn | constellation was retarded | 19:42 |
| fenn | i'm just glad they finally killed the shuttle | 19:42 |
| parolang` | Well, moon base sounded cool :) | 19:44 |
| parolang` | But the rest of it sounded lame. | 19:45 |
| JayDugger | Let me NOT play the tape of STANDARD SPACE RANT #2. | 20:15 |
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| JayDugger | Video of a Contraptor drawing a circle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Xhl5fGJpk) | 20:39 |
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| hundred-ideas | JayDugger: have you checked out the MTM project at the media lab? | 20:42 |
| fenn | there's no plans or source or anything.. bastards | 20:42 |
| fenn | hm, ok now the pcb mill has files | 20:43 |
| fenn | what was the big directory of machines that students had made | 20:48 |
| fenn | this is what i was thinking of http://mtm.cba.mit.edu/ | 20:49 |
| JayDugger | hundred-ideas, No, I hadn't. Thank you for the reference. | 20:49 |
| JayDugger | fenn, yup...stingy bastards. | 20:49 |
| kanzure | back | 20:49 |
| fenn | makes me want to cry | 20:50 |
| fenn | half of them are 404 | 20:50 |
| hundred-ideas | what is needed? | 20:51 |
| fenn | files for "fluxmacutter" | 20:52 |
| hundred-ideas | anyone know anything about http://biotechinstitute.org/index.php? | 20:53 |
| Noahj | Fluxamacutter's far from finished | 20:53 |
| Noahj | But yeah, the MTM site sucks | 20:53 |
| Noahj | Email shawn@as220.org, he's the guy building the fluxamacutter | 20:53 |
| fenn | fuck i don't know.. tell them to get a clue | 20:54 |
| fenn | PDF's are not cad files | 20:54 |
| fenn | photographs are not cad files | 20:54 |
| fenn | drawings in crayon are not cad files | 20:54 |
| Noahj | Most of the fluxama-projects are currently in more of a fuxama-project state | 20:54 |
| Noahj | DXFs are cad files, right? | 20:55 |
| Noahj | Are SVGs cad files? | 20:55 |
| fenn | obviously most of these things were designed in a cad program at some point | 20:55 |
| Noahj | Or do you mean cad.py cad files :-p | 20:55 |
| fenn | svg is good.. i'd rather not be forced to use cad.py | 20:55 |
| Noahj | The fux... er, fluxamacutter wasn't designed in a cad program | 20:55 |
| Noahj | It was designed in inkscape :-p | 20:55 |
| fenn | sbp is bad because it's currently only implemented by shopbot, even though supposedly it's open | 20:56 |
| Noahj | But yeah, Shawn'll have those SVGs. Lion/tiger/bear in mind that we don't have a working one yet | 20:56 |
| Noahj | It's pretty much just a pretty box with some laser cut bearings and some threaded rod | 20:56 |
| fenn | and how about putting some license info and other metadata while you're at it | 20:57 |
| fenn | description of the machine's capabilities: work envelope, rapid speed, cutting speed | 20:58 |
| Noahj | It doesn't have any capabilities yet | 20:58 |
| fenn | the pcb mill looks functional | 20:59 |
| Noahj | But I'll ask Shawn what the target is | 20:59 |
| Noahj | Yeah, the A-Z mill works | 20:59 |
| Noahj | The one we built at AS220 isn't currently in working condition but we just haven't set up the stepper drivers yet | 20:59 |
| fenn | i fucking hate this mit bullshit | 21:00 |
| Noahj | I saw a demo of the first one, though, and it's quite nice | 21:00 |
| fenn | what exactly does "Permission granted for experimental and personal use." MEAN?? | 21:00 |
| fenn | every time you ask someone they just sort of shrug, like it doesn't matter because nobody is ever going to do anything with it anyway | 21:00 |
| Noahj | Yeah, it's probably more constructive to ask them for permission to do specific things or classes of things | 21:01 |
| Noahj | Or forgiveness for the same ;-) | 21:01 |
| fenn | how about i ask them to license it as GPL | 21:01 |
| fenn | fucking universities | 21:02 |
| Noahj | Does the GPL work for physical objects? | 21:02 |
| * fenn goes back to sleep | 21:02 | |
| QuantumG | sure | 21:02 |
| fenn | only if they're copyrightable | 21:02 |
| fenn | which means basically never | 21:02 |
| fenn | only if it's mickey mouse | 21:02 |
| fenn | the copyright is for the cad files | 21:03 |
| Noahj | Makes sense | 21:03 |
| Noahj | Maybe creative commons is more appropriate | 21:04 |
| Noahj | Is the ambiguity about the distribution of the files? | 21:05 |
| Noahj | I'm pretty sure "experimental and personal use" covers anything you could call an experiment | 21:05 |
| hundred-ideas | media lab is weird, they get a lot of corporate funding, so they sometime superficially support open source but don't actually release | 21:05 |
| fenn | i really doubt the students care about that | 21:06 |
| fenn | they are just incompetent | 21:06 |
| Noahj | I've met a couple MIT students who care about licensing | 21:06 |
| Noahj | But most people I've talked to don't. | 21:06 |
| Noahj | It's a shame how many things are made, not documented, and then put on a shelf | 21:09 |
| Noahj | The fablabs have all been pretty bad about that | 21:10 |
| Noahj | If I'd built anything significant I'd license it under CC-NC-SA... | 21:15 |
| Noahj | I'll go license my insignificant projects as such | 21:15 |
| fenn | why NC vs BY? | 21:21 |
| fenn | a huge problem is nobody knows how to interpret "non-commercial" | 21:22 |
| fenn | and it's stupid anyway | 21:22 |
| fenn | if someone sells your design, that's a good thing | 21:23 |
| fenn | er, i mean if they sell the finished product | 21:23 |
| fenn | SA means they can't charge for it i think | 21:23 |
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| Noahj | Ah, I didn't know SA covered that | 21:24 |
| Noahj | I don't care too much about BY | 21:24 |
| Noahj | Actually, I don't care at all about BY | 21:24 |
| fenn | that's the dividend though | 21:24 |
| fenn | go read about gift economies | 21:24 |
| Noahj | I have a friend who licenses everything under all licenses not under themselves | 21:24 |
| fenn | so you are the "anonymous donor" eh? | 21:25 |
| Noahj | Nah, not me, I'm not anonymous, I'm not anyone | 21:25 |
| fenn | in that case why not just do public domain? | 21:25 |
| Noahj | I'll consider BY when I want to be accountable for my work | 21:25 |
| Noahj | *held accountable for | 21:25 |
| fenn | meh | 21:26 |
| Noahj | The problem with gift economies is that if people can trace my work back to me I might end up with an angry mob | 21:26 |
| Noahj | Er, at best, I doubt anything I've done is that significant | 21:26 |
| fenn | or a happy mob | 21:26 |
| Noahj | Public domain stuff ends up used as clipart and other awful nonsense | 21:26 |
| fenn | so? | 21:27 |
| Noahj | I'd rather businesses in general stay away from things I've made, unless they're businesses I control | 21:27 |
| fenn | so does CC stuff these days, see clipart.org or whatever | 21:27 |
| Noahj | That's fine, I mean "clipart packs" | 21:27 |
| Noahj | There're businesses which just repackage public domain things and sell them | 21:27 |
| fenn | i don't really see what's wrong with that at all | 21:27 |
| Noahj | Which is fine, but I don't want things I've made to be included in those packages | 21:27 |
| Noahj | Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that | 21:28 |
| fenn | please explain why you don't want someone to do something that's totally ok | 21:28 |
| kanzure | this worked for me: http://www.tineye.com/ | 21:28 |
| Noahj | I mean, it's unlikely anything I've made's worth selling | 21:28 |
| Noahj | I can't explain that | 21:28 |
| Noahj | I can explain why I don't want someone to do something that's not okay with me | 21:28 |
| fenn | p_p | 21:29 |
| Noahj | The distinction I'm trying (and failing) to make is that I still want to exercise that much control over the content I produce | 21:29 |
| fenn | then don't use a permissive license | 21:29 |
| fenn | fuck | 21:29 |
| Noahj | Because I'm selfish and don't want people who didn't make it to profit from it | 21:29 |
| Noahj | Er, not to profit to profit... | 21:29 |
| Noahj | I'm fine with people benefiting from it, but not profiting from it :-p | 21:29 |
| fenn | fascist | 21:30 |
| Noahj | Yeah, luckily, my choice of licenses doesn't matter, because I don't produce content worth distributing/utilizing/etc. | 21:30 |
| fenn | you should work on that | 21:31 |
| Noahj | Yep. | 21:31 |
| Noahj | It's more important than choice of licenses... | 21:31 |
| Noahj | I think that's what the MIT students are doing | 21:31 |
| fenn | unfortunately their machines arent that good | 21:31 |
| Noahj | Better than their licenses | 21:32 |
| fenn | there's some awesome stuff coming out of PERG but none of it is open licensed (and they aren't interested, more like "how can we get more patents") | 21:32 |
| Noahj | "This machine's design files are under a license exactly as permissive as the quality of the machine" | 21:32 |
| fenn | you are allowed to redesign the machine 0.001" in any direction | 21:33 |
| fenn | reminds me of http://xkcd.com/287/ | 21:34 |
| Noahj | Oh man | 21:43 |
| Noahj | I hadn't worked that out until now | 21:43 |
| Noahj | I'm facepalming at it | 21:43 |
| Noahj | Seven orders of mixed fruit works fine | 21:44 |
| fenn | i'm guessing you didn't go for the general solution | 21:44 |
| Noahj | I can't produce a general solution though | 21:44 |
| Noahj | Yeah | 21:44 |
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| JayDugger | PERG? | 21:50 |
| fenn | http://pergatory.mit.edu/ | 21:50 |
| JayDugger | Not www.lesley.edu/perg.htm or www.physics.umd.edu/perg/ ? | 21:51 |
| fenn | in particular this guy has some awesome stuff http://rogercortesi.com/portf/index.php | 21:51 |
| fenn | it's like ... Engineering *gasp* | 21:52 |
| fenn | also i sort of go into a nice place when i think about this: http://pergatory.mit.edu/perg/awards/TURBOTOO.html | 21:53 |
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| fenn | apparently they are part of CBA | 21:55 |
| fenn | that's "center for bits and atoms" | 21:55 |
| Noahj | PERG is? | 21:56 |
| Noahj | It doesn't look like it... | 21:56 |
| fenn | yeah i think they are ashamed or something | 21:56 |
| Noahj | The CBA's all the way on the other side of campus | 21:57 |
| Noahj | Maybe there was a schism or something | 21:57 |
| fenn | CBA is currently contributing support to: ..... Alex Slocum (Mech. E.) | 21:57 |
| Noahj | Ah | 21:57 |
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| fenn | also see for example fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/MIT/960.07/03.19/error_budgets.pdf | 21:58 |
| kanzure | fenn: noah is well aware of CBA :P | 21:58 |
| Noahj | Not aware enough to know about PERG | 21:58 |
| kanzure | i met noah via stalking david dalrymple (my CBA insider, sort of) | 21:59 |
| Noahj | He's more MMP now | 21:59 |
| kanzure | MMP? | 21:59 |
| fenn | the ai rehash project | 21:59 |
| kanzure | lovely | 21:59 |
| kanzure | oh well | 21:59 |
| Noahj | Jonathan apparently uses structural loops in his milling machine | 22:00 |
| fenn | i think it's more of a funding strategy actually | 22:00 |
| fenn | uh.. all machines use structural loops | 22:00 |
| fenn | its like saying "i use electrical circuits in my arduino" | 22:00 |
| kanzure | !!!1 | 22:00 |
| hplusbot | kanzure: Error: "!!1" is not a valid command. | 22:00 |
| kanzure | jkhgljhadsjfa;jlf | 22:00 |
| fenn | wtf is that thing for | 22:00 |
| fenn | !quit | 22:00 |
| hplusbot | fenn: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. | 22:00 |
| fenn | !fuckoff | 22:01 |
| hplusbot | fenn: Error: "fuckoff" is not a valid command. | 22:01 |
| fenn | i hate bots | 22:01 |
| kanzure | ybit is using it to log apparently, but he fails at logging | 22:01 |
| fenn | !bookmark | 22:01 |
| hplusbot | fenn: Error: "bookmark" is not a valid command. | 22:01 |
| kanzure | !logs | 22:01 |
| hplusbot | kanzure: http://adl.serveftp.org/irclogs.txt | 22:01 |
| Noahj | Er, yeah, I meant something more like "has small-ish structural loops" | 22:01 |
| kanzure | that's basically the only command it does | 22:01 |
| kanzure | it probably also does | 22:02 |
| kanzure | !roll | 22:02 |
| hplusbot | kanzure: Error: "roll" is not a valid command. | 22:02 |
| kanzure | oh yay | 22:02 |
| Noahj | I'm going to sleep, it was nice not lurking for a while | 22:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.nycresistor.com/2010/03/03/oracle-of-biological-engineering-to-speak-at-nycr/ | 22:04 |
| kanzure | i *hate* this bullshit excitementism | 22:04 |
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| ybit | i do suck at logging | 22:06 |
| kanzure | ybit: just set up an irssi session for hplusbot and have irssi send logs over to /var/www/irclog.txt | 22:07 |
| ybit | http://www.asc.edu/ :: alabama supercomputer authority | 22:09 |
| kanzure | i think jonathan wrote most of this page? http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/Projects | 22:13 |
| kanzure | yet-more-textplosions | 22:13 |
| kanzure | hm there's nothing on the web about "excessive excitement" | 22:18 |
| kanzure | except a few pages that relate it to anxiety disorders | 22:18 |
| kanzure | heh maybe bre pettis, zach et al. have anxiety issues | 22:18 |
| kanzure | `Uncover Ways To Prevent A Dog From Unwanted Urination | 22:18 |
| kanzure | him to that situation until it no longer causes excessive excitement` | 22:18 |
| kanzure | the effects of excessive motivation on sports: http://medwelljournals.com/fulltext/TSS/2008/654-663.pdf | 22:19 |
| fenn | are you on adderall? | 22:19 |
| JayDugger | Wow...error budgets...I wish I could make all my co-workers read this, and then THINK. | 22:19 |
| fenn | yeah unfortunately spreadsheets are state of the art? | 22:20 |
| fenn | i mean error budget is pretty basic if you think about it | 22:20 |
| JayDugger | Most people I've worked with use spreadsheets for table design. | 22:20 |
| fenn | shouldnt all cad programs have this functionality as default? | 22:20 |
| JayDugger | "What's a formula?" | 22:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: yes, why? | 22:20 |
| JayDugger | Probably... | 22:20 |
| fenn | it was the fifteen links about "excessive excitement" that gave it away | 22:21 |
| JayDugger | Error budgets are widely useful, not just in tool design. | 22:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: i sent only one, re: medweeljournals.com | 22:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: unless i missed something? | 22:21 |
| kanzure | medwelljournals.com | 22:21 |
| fenn | don't mind me, i'm grumpy | 22:22 |
| kanzure | come on, surely you've noticed this | 22:22 |
| kanzure | where these bullshit "social media" people get *super-excited* | 22:22 |
| kanzure | but are full of shit :( | 22:22 |
| fenn | yeah i think they do it on purpose | 22:22 |
| JayDugger | E.g., my boss, the fool, won't spend $100 on a 1TB external drive to reduce errors in database content that might cost customers and break FAA regulations. | 22:22 |
| kanzure | yes, i think they do it on purpose as well | 22:22 |
| fenn | it's an excitement arms race, inflation, something like that | 22:22 |
| parolang | fenn++ | 22:22 |
| kanzure | but excitement inflation isn't sustainable | 22:23 |
| JayDugger | The error budget for this project is quite tight. | 22:23 |
| * fenn highfives parolang for being SO AWESOME!!!1 | 22:23 | |
| kanzure | OH MAN | 22:23 |
| kanzure | GIMME SOME OF THAT | 22:23 |
| fenn | SNAP | 22:23 |
| kanzure | BAM | 22:23 |
| parolang | fenn: just meant I agree :) | 22:23 |
| fenn | uh, BIFF | 22:23 |
| kanzure | i hate myself | 22:23 |
| parolang | Sometimes I get the idioms messed up :) | 22:23 |
| kanzure | (in the sense that i'm sorry i subjected the channel to that) | 22:23 |
| kanzure | parolang: yes that was understood | 22:24 |
| fenn | ooh does the bot keep score? | 22:24 |
| fenn | !karma fenn | 22:24 |
| hplusbot | fenn: Error: "karma" is not a valid command. | 22:24 |
| kanzure | :( | 22:24 |
| parolang | oh...the excitement thing :) | 22:24 |
| fenn | !troutslap hplusbot | 22:24 |
| hplusbot | fenn: Error: "troutslap" is not a valid command. | 22:24 |
| kanzure | you will _not_ be reincarnated according to hplusbot | 22:24 |
| kanzure | i guess congratulations are in order | 22:25 |
| parolang | For an H+ bot, you'd think it'd have more functionality :) | 22:25 |
| fenn | !cryo-freeze parolang | 22:25 |
| hplusbot | fenn: Error: "cryo-freeze" is not a valid command. | 22:25 |
| kanzure | it's just a stripped down version of supybot | 22:25 |
| parolang | heh, like that :) | 22:25 |
| kanzure | !fix fenn | 22:25 |
| hplusbot | kanzure: Error: "fix" is not a valid command. | 22:25 |
| fenn | i couldnt think of anything | 22:25 |
| fenn | what's the atheist version of reincarnation? | 22:26 |
| parolang | !fabricate exoskeleton | 22:26 |
| hplusbot | parolang: Error: "fabricate" is not a valid command. | 22:26 |
| kanzure | how about !skdb-get install spaceship | 22:26 |
| fenn | hmm an skdb interface would be possibly useful | 22:26 |
| kanzure | how would it work | 22:26 |
| kanzure | ooh ooh | 22:26 |
| fenn | !p <insert python command> | 22:26 |
| hplusbot | fenn: Error: "p" is not a valid command. | 22:26 |
| kanzure | so, datapkg has been doing packaging for data sets | 22:26 |
| kanzure | but they don't actually package the data (for some reason) | 22:27 |
| fenn | so they say | 22:27 |
| kanzure | and it's more like a registry but you download bits of the registry | 22:27 |
| kanzure | which makes *no* sense to me (how is that like apt-get? it's totally missing the point) | 22:27 |
| fenn | what's a registry? | 22:27 |
| kanzure | but | 22:27 |
| kanzure | dunno, but they call it a registery | 22:27 |
| fenn | sounds windows-ey | 22:27 |
| kanzure | anyway, i've been meaning to bring up the idea of hollow packages without actual content | 22:27 |
| kanzure | so mostly just the metadata without anything useful | 22:27 |
| kanzure | in the hopes that, some day, someone will fill it in | 22:27 |
| parolang | Registery is where you register things...probably meant generally. | 22:27 |
| kanzure | once someone gets a clue that they should be making (gasp) real CAD data | 22:28 |
| fenn | ok, hollow away | 22:28 |
| kanzure | yeah? | 22:28 |
| kanzure | well, the bot interface would be nice for that | 22:28 |
| fenn | just mark it as 'metadata-only unfinished' or whatever | 22:28 |
| kanzure | someone mentions yet-another-bullshit-open-source-hardware project | 22:28 |
| kanzure | and then we could do !create-a-package-for-this-and-add-it-to-the-server | 22:28 |
| JayDugger | fenn: the atheist version of reincarnation is the food web. | 22:28 |
| kanzure | and it could interview us with some questions (or something) re: authors, links, whatever | 22:28 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: sounds a lot like caste :P | 22:29 |
| fenn | JayDugger: i mean the technoprogressive model-all-atom-trajectories-and-reinstantiate-your-synaptic-network process | 22:29 |
| kanzure | oh, the omega point | 22:29 |
| fenn | sorta | 22:29 |
| JayDugger | Oh...let me know when you have a working example. | 22:29 |
| JayDugger | Tipler's a little too Christian for me. | 22:29 |
| fenn | there's no reason the omega point couldn't get stuck in an infinite loop | 22:30 |
| kanzure | aleph point? | 22:30 |
| JayDugger | I think that's Nietzsche's model of the Eternal Return. | 22:30 |
| JayDugger | YMMVV. | 22:30 |
| kanzure | er not what i wanted to show up in my search: http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Omega/ | 22:30 |
| kanzure | i should have expected anders to show up, but not for that reason ;) | 22:30 |
| parolang | Eternal return is an interesting idea...but it's a scientific hypothesis which I think has been falsified. But that's besides the point of the eternal return :) | 22:31 |
| JayDugger | I would like to hear more about hollow packages. | 22:31 |
| kanzure | though, there are some good links on that page | 22:31 |
| kanzure | hollow packages are utterly useless except as "IOUs" plus metadata | 22:31 |
| * parolang is a Nietzsche junky :) | 22:31 | |
| JayDugger | My long-stalled DIY book scanner gets a kick in the pants this weekend. | 22:31 |
| kanzure | is this a good kick in the pants or a bad one | 22:31 |
| fenn | i would like someone to enter real data into skdb | 22:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: i don't think anyone has real data :/ | 22:31 |
| fenn | if making stub packages is the way to get started, so be it | 22:31 |
| JayDugger | Eh...If I get all my 45' of shelves scanned? Good. | 22:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: what do you think of the .tb file format? the one that "isn't yaml" | 22:32 |
| JayDugger | My current lease ends in June, and I move then. | 22:32 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/process.tb | 22:32 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: i have an open room | 22:32 |
| fenn | are you sure that's not yaml? | 22:32 |
| kanzure | they claim it's not | 22:32 |
| kanzure | i don't like their camelcase, dunno what's going on there | 22:32 |
| kanzure | - object ? (category ~ PrintedCircuitBoard & producer = Adafruit) | 22:33 |
| kanzure | that makes mehfarts come out my butt :/ | 22:33 |
| fenn | that doesn't make sense | 22:33 |
| kanzure | well, my butt is an amazing thing | 22:33 |
| fenn | i mean having it all on one line | 22:33 |
| fenn | category and producer | 22:33 |
| JayDugger | Anyhow, time to commute. Good night, all. | 22:34 |
| kanzure | odd how it's adafruit-only PrintedCircuitBoard objects | 22:34 |
| -!- hundred-ideas [~100ideas@209-6-54-14.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #hplusroadmap [] | 22:34 | |
| fenn | what if you have multiple producers, you do an | (OR) statement? | 22:34 |
| kanzure | i guess | 22:34 |
| kanzure | but why should you have to list out all possible producers in the definition file? | 22:34 |
| fenn | .tb is metadata only right? | 22:35 |
| fenn | category ~ Thumbtack | 22:35 |
| kanzure | it has "required input" and "required output", and then another .tb file defines the steps | 22:35 |
| fenn | guh | 22:36 |
| fenn | i'm not going to cooperate with someone who refuses to cooperate | 22:36 |
| fenn | they can do whatever they want and i won't complain | 22:36 |
| kanzure | that's so meta it's making my meninges cry | 22:36 |
| kanzure | "i'm not going to cooperate" | 22:36 |
| kanzure | "with someone who refuses to cooperate" | 22:36 |
| fenn | your arachnoid is fuzzy | 22:37 |
| kanzure | i don't get it | 22:37 |
| fenn | let thine pili fly freely | 22:37 |
| kanzure | are you implying that my meninges are in fact made up of fuzzy spider hair? | 22:38 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnoid_mater | 22:38 |
| fenn | indeed | 22:38 |
| kanzure | it's not a very good insight, that seems to be the etymology of it.. | 22:39 |
| kanzure | ANYWAY | 22:39 |
| kanzure | stub packages. guess i need to make a few examples | 22:40 |
| fenn | so i want to get some practice with django | 22:40 |
| kanzure | are you sure | 22:40 |
| fenn | what should i do? i mean i dont really need to make anything | 22:40 |
| kanzure | here's my notes: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/django | 22:40 |
| fenn | everyone and his dog is hiring for django people | 22:40 |
| kanzure | yeah | 22:41 |
| fenn | but i dont get it.. i mean you get to map url's and do python code... why do websites need this? | 22:41 |
| kanzure | i hate to say it, but a front-end to your log parser or something | 22:41 |
| kanzure | django is a project management framework more than anything | 22:41 |
| fenn | nah that doesn't make sense | 22:41 |
| kanzure | basically when you update your python classes included in your django project, the django python scripts that you call (like manage.py syncdb) update the database table structures | 22:42 |
| kanzure | without deleting the previous data, etc. etc. | 22:42 |
| fenn | it chugs through the whole db and reorganizes it? | 22:42 |
| kanzure | no, i think in most cases it just throws some ALTER TABLE 'blah' ADD COLUMN 'guh' type varchar 255 | 22:43 |
| kanzure | shit like that | 22:43 |
| fenn | oh | 22:43 |
| fenn | well that works i guess | 22:43 |
| fenn | odd way to do data persistence if you ask me | 22:43 |
| fenn | so i'm trying to sleep but it's not happening | 22:44 |
| fenn | i almost bought melatonin today as an experiment | 22:44 |
| kanzure | i sent you a "super exciting email" a few seconds ago, if you're trying to find an excuse to stay up (re: pink army, mail-order drug design services, ..) | 22:44 |
| fenn | meh | 22:45 |
| fenn | andrew hessel needs supermemo | 22:45 |
| kanzure | i think his vision in that email is a little short-sighted | 22:46 |
| kanzure | there's already other personalized medicine stuff showing up, he needs to push for developing a personalized platform thingy | 22:47 |
| kanzure | actually that email makes him sound really flat | 22:48 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure we've seen more interesting ideas out there already | 22:48 |
| kanzure | meh http://blog.makerbot.com/2010/03/04/makerbot-survey/ | 22:49 |
| kanzure | http://blog.styleguidance.com/post/406444907/ycombinators-etacts-steals-ballparks-layout <-- haha | 23:19 |
| kanzure | more: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1144633 | 23:20 |
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