| --- Day changed Sat May 01 2010 | ||
| fenn | yak shaving | 00:36 |
|---|---|---|
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| fenn | this ought to have been easier to find: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/Building_on_Linux/UNIX | 01:01 |
| fenn | unfortunately google for "compiling openscad" and you will get everything BUT that | 01:01 |
| fenn | wow this takes a long time | 01:20 |
| JayDugger | Thank you for the link, fenn. | 01:20 |
| fenn | cool, map of trees in SF: http://www.gaffta.org/projects/tenderloin-dynamic/ | 01:27 |
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| kanzure | fenn: what do you think the chances are that the austin hackerspace people will listen to your notes | 03:17 |
| kanzure | re: the mechmate | 03:17 |
| fenn | ff | 03:28 |
| fenn | what will happen is somebody will try to do something stupid and less will get pissed and say "dont touch it!" | 03:28 |
| fenn | s/less/les/ | 03:28 |
| fenn | i wonder if http://austinhackerspace.org/ was explicitly modeled after noisebridge.net/wiki/Noisebridge | 03:31 |
| fenn | damn i hate pasting in a laggy terminal | 03:31 |
| fenn | how am i supposed to do a footnote if <ref> doesn't work | 03:33 |
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| kanzure | hello Noahj | 08:24 |
| Noahj | Hey | 08:24 |
| fenn | I don't care if Apple starts cranking out Home Neuro-Uploading Kits, I'll never give that snake-oil salesman Steve Jobs a *penny.* An Apple nanoforge would cost three times what any other nanoforge costs, would produce pretty but extremely shoddy materials, and would require only Apple-approved CHON--and I would just *love* to see the approval process template engineers would have to endure to get their designs accepted for the iForge Store. | 09:15 |
| fenn | The software to run it would be fairly easy to use and pretty, sure--but also incredibly limited compared to even freeware nanoforge apps, riddled with bugs, and so overloaded with copy-protection AI sentries that you wouldn't even be able to produce a Granny Smith apple without paying the goddamned company a royalty to maintain Steve Jobs' cryo-preserved head. | 09:16 |
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| kanzure | bkero: you around? | 10:33 |
| kanzure | i'm thinking of getting this: http://phones.verizonwireless.com/htc/incredible/ | 10:33 |
| kanzure | i'd like to get an n900 but they aren't subsidized anywhere | 10:33 |
| * bkero would recommend the n900 | 10:33 | |
| bkero | Incredible isn't too bad if you don't like having a keyboard :P | 10:34 |
| kanzure | i presently have a nokia sonya thing. it's trash. | 10:34 |
| * bkero would recommend an original droid because of the keyboard | 10:35 | |
| kanzure | what's an "original" | 10:35 |
| bkero | Droid | 10:36 |
| kanzure | so, uh, my mom is involved with this and she wants to buy me a new cell phone | 10:44 |
| kanzure | but she doesn't think the n900 works with at&t because they don't support the phone | 10:44 |
| kanzure | i'm trying to explain to her that it doesn't work like that | 10:44 |
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| fenn | heh, my crappy modify/sense/control slide ended up in erik de bruijn's powerpoint | 10:59 |
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| fenn | wow matweb is terrible if you actually need to use it | 12:37 |
| fenn | i'm trying to sort aluminum alloys by thermal conductivity.. it's totally not obvious how to do this or if it's even possible | 12:38 |
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| fenn | man, these parts are beautiful: http://hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2010/04/abs-on-pet-tape.html | 13:05 |
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| fenn | PET is mylar right? | 13:08 |
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| kanzure | hmm the backflip is ok i guess | 13:28 |
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| jrayhawk | The n900 doesn't do 3G on AT&T, but I've never found reason to care. | 14:10 |
| jrayhawk | Some phone companies will give you a discount for not using their contract phone subsidies on full data plans. | 14:10 |
| jrayhawk | T-Mobile was the first to start doing that, I think. | 14:12 |
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| jrayhawk | Usually said discount is roughly equivalent to what you'd be getting in subsidy anyway. | 14:13 |
| jrayhawk | I replaced a battery for an iPhone the other day. The process looked like it was designed to be difficult and error-prone to do. | 14:28 |
| jrayhawk | Which is incredibly crass and clever. | 14:29 |
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| kanzure | hey wolf! | 18:19 |
| wolfspraul | kanzure: hi | 18:34 |
| wolfspraul | read your singapore mail, finally paid attention to your domain and read heybryan.org | 18:35 |
| kanzure | :) | 18:35 |
| wolfspraul | you seem to have some energy there! good! | 18:36 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 18:36 |
| wolfspraul | you are 19yr old? | 18:36 |
| kanzure | i turned 20 a few months ago | 18:36 |
| wolfspraul | he he | 18:36 |
| wolfspraul | when I sealed my first big deal, I 'rounded up' my age from 20 to 21 cause I was worried they wouldn't take me serious as a 20yr old in the US | 18:36 |
| wolfspraul | I have gotten a little more self confident since those days... | 18:37 |
| kanzure | i round down ;) | 18:37 |
| wolfspraul | to the matter of the subject, I'm no big fan of most of what's going on in 'open hardware' | 18:37 |
| wolfspraul | so I try to stay mostly silent, why disturb people when they have fun... | 18:38 |
| kanzure | sure | 18:38 |
| kanzure | i've noticed that you think that open source hardware is *not* manufacturable? or something like that | 18:38 |
| wolfspraul | but since you are so young, at least you should have a chance to hear different thoughts | 18:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: are you around | 18:38 |
| wolfspraul | first I look at the hardware industry from the perspective of where it's happening (the manufacturing), and that is Asia | 18:39 |
| kanzure | of course. | 18:39 |
| wolfspraul | need to think about the economics for a while | 18:39 |
| wolfspraul | then you realize the reprap/diy stuff is nonsense, just a hobby of some early retirees or bored people | 18:40 |
| wolfspraul | (putting my flamesuit on, I hope at this time not many people here...) | 18:40 |
| kanzure | the quality of work is subpar, if that's what you mean | 18:40 |
| wolfspraul | it's all about capital, investing the capital to gain economics of scale | 18:40 |
| wolfspraul | the production of a chip costs 20-50 US cents | 18:40 |
| wolfspraul | every chip | 18:40 |
| wolfspraul | keep that in mind | 18:40 |
| wolfspraul | the problem is the one-time investment to get there | 18:41 |
| kanzure | of the 10B dollar manufacturing facility? | 18:41 |
| wolfspraul | Apple spent an estimated 1 billion USD before they could sell the first product with an A4 inside | 18:41 |
| wolfspraul | it's all over the place | 18:41 |
| wolfspraul | not just the photosteppers in the foundry | 18:41 |
| wolfspraul | lots of one-timers everywhere | 18:41 |
| wolfspraul | design | 18:41 |
| wolfspraul | testing | 18:41 |
| wolfspraul | setting up an efficient production process | 18:42 |
| wolfspraul | but the end result is phenomenal. a very powerful computer that can do amazing things for a few bucks. | 18:42 |
| wolfspraul | THAT MATTERS! | 18:42 |
| wolfspraul | think from the perspective of people who make 200 USD / month, if you can | 18:42 |
| kanzure | i'm close to that anyway, so yes i can | 18:42 |
| wolfspraul | I get a nicely working GSM cellphone here for 18 USD retail | 18:42 |
| wolfspraul | kanzure: but you are probably surrounded by tons of people who make much more, and you clearly have that on your horizon | 18:43 |
| wolfspraul | it's different | 18:43 |
| wolfspraul | but anyway | 18:43 |
| wolfspraul | so the HW economics is all about capital and economies of scale. towards the IC. | 18:43 |
| wolfspraul | apple gets it | 18:43 |
| wolfspraul | so from that perspective pretty much everything going on in open hardware is just a hobby | 18:44 |
| wolfspraul | like the hobby cooks who buy more expensive knifes and pots than the #1 chefs in the world :-) | 18:44 |
| wolfspraul | it's OK, but not very relevant | 18:44 |
| kanzure | sure | 18:44 |
| wolfspraul | you can find this in all industries | 18:45 |
| wolfspraul | who buys the most expensive/fanciest/most fashionable guitars? | 18:45 |
| wolfspraul | the wannabes! :-) | 18:45 |
| wolfspraul | not real successful stage artists | 18:45 |
| wolfspraul | they may run around with some 20 yr old crap, cause they are artists, not consumers | 18:45 |
| wolfspraul | Jon and I are fighting over this, but of course I love the man | 18:46 |
| wolfspraul | he's cool | 18:46 |
| kanzure | in general, "make magazine" is definitely a hobbyist attractor | 18:46 |
| wolfspraul | if you ever come to China, be my guest | 18:46 |
| kanzure | but there are some interesting projects out there in the open source space | 18:46 |
| kanzure | like emc2 | 18:46 |
| wolfspraul | well I just described it to you | 18:46 |
| wolfspraul | the real deal is going on elsewhere | 18:47 |
| kanzure | sure | 18:47 |
| wolfspraul | look at what apple does, killing half the stupid computer industry, rightfully so | 18:47 |
| wolfspraul | and then MTK | 18:47 |
| wolfspraul | nobody knows MTK but they ship 95 million chipsets per month now! :-) | 18:47 |
| kanzure | MTK does cell phone kits or something? | 18:47 |
| kanzure | oh, nevermind | 18:47 |
| wolfspraul | yes | 18:47 |
| wolfspraul | so any open model first should get in touch with reality | 18:48 |
| wolfspraul | not the reality of a high-paid office employee bored on the weekends | 18:48 |
| wolfspraul | but the reality of 6 billion people on the planet. because that's where the volume will come from. | 18:48 |
| wolfspraul | in theory you integrate any consumer electronic into one die, produce it for 50 cents | 18:49 |
| wolfspraul | so let me switch to Mr. Nice mode - what is #hplusroadmap all about? | 18:50 |
| wolfspraul | what are you guys doing here? | 18:50 |
| kanzure | i keep goons in here for focusing on accelerating trends (like the technological singularity), human enhancements / augmentations, and synthetic biology | 18:51 |
| kanzure | so we've been working on skdb, which acts like apt-get for hardware | 18:51 |
| kanzure | and apt-get is a linux tool, if you don't know about it just think of it as an app store i guess | 18:51 |
| wolfspraul | don't worry I use it every day | 18:52 |
| kanzure | :) | 18:52 |
| kanzure | i have some funding available to focus on my crazy hardware projects | 18:52 |
| kanzure | but not much of an idea of how to best apply it | 18:52 |
| wolfspraul | invest in yourself | 18:52 |
| wolfspraul | meaning travel to the companies that make hardware and talk to them | 18:52 |
| kanzure | hm | 18:53 |
| genehacker | hey kanzure, wanna buy a centrifuge? | 18:53 |
| kanzure | depends on how much it is | 18:53 |
| kanzure | if it's too much, i should just build one | 18:54 |
| genehacker | ~$15 | 18:54 |
| kanzure | wtf | 18:54 |
| genehacker | RAS is selling one | 18:54 |
| kanzure | do you have a model number | 18:54 |
| genehacker | it's a pretty crappy centrifuge | 18:54 |
| drazak | beh | 18:54 |
| genehacker | no, but I can get one tomorrow | 18:54 |
| kanzure | maybe i'll call up richard | 18:54 |
| genehacker | apparently they bummed one off one of the biolabs | 18:54 |
| genehacker | yeah give him a call | 18:54 |
| genehacker | it works fine though | 18:55 |
| kanzure | wolfspraul: any other suggestions? | 18:56 |
| kanzure | who should i go meet with | 18:56 |
| wolfspraul | well I don't fully understand your interests, so not sure | 18:57 |
| wolfspraul | I don't know anything about genes & bio stuff | 18:57 |
| kanzure | it's like programming | 18:57 |
| wolfspraul | so I'm not sure what motivates you. I'm motivated by the power of technology, and make it accessible for people. | 18:58 |
| wolfspraul | that's why I think about foundries, ICs, assembly/production etc. | 18:58 |
| wolfspraul | but not about genes :-) maybe I should... :-) | 18:59 |
| wolfspraul | so my comment was only related to 'open hardware', not to the bio stuff | 18:59 |
| wolfspraul | you certainly have a lot of energy, judging from your homepage. follow what interests you the most. | 19:00 |
| wolfspraul | have you been to singapore? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | no, not yet | 19:00 |
| wolfspraul | it's different from china, but you need to start somewhere. a very very nice place for sure. | 19:01 |
| wolfspraul | I worked there for 2 months 10 years ago, still have good memories. | 19:01 |
| kanzure | so, i want to have an HQ for my projects | 19:02 |
| wolfspraul | HQ = company? | 19:02 |
| kanzure | that's why i've been running around raising capital from capital factory and talking to lawyers lately etc. | 19:02 |
| kanzure | HQ = headquarters | 19:02 |
| kanzure | just a general term | 19:02 |
| wolfspraul | you mean a legal entity? | 19:02 |
| wolfspraul | or what? | 19:02 |
| kanzure | uh, like superman's fortress of solitude, except with manufacturing equipment, biotech labs and shit :) | 19:02 |
| kanzure | i don't care if it's legal or not, to be honest :) | 19:02 |
| wolfspraul | well obviously it should be where you live, no? | 19:03 |
| wolfspraul | I don't know enough about you. | 19:03 |
| kanzure | sorry, what are you asking? | 19:03 |
| kanzure | you were asking about my motivations | 19:03 |
| wolfspraul | some rich folks setup their 'thinking villa' or whatnot in Thailand, like a 'work retreat' | 19:03 |
| kanzure | i want a "do" villa | 19:03 |
| wolfspraul | I'm not sure you are in that category | 19:03 |
| wolfspraul | well a good rule is to ask yourself a number of times "and then?" | 19:04 |
| kanzure | i have a small hackerspace about 1mi away from my apartment here in austin that i have been working at | 19:04 |
| wolfspraul | what's next? what's the next step? | 19:04 |
| wolfspraul | singapore is on the other side of the world, what would you want there? | 19:04 |
| wolfspraul | why there? | 19:04 |
| wolfspraul | those things are expensive. travel, rent, etc. | 19:05 |
| kanzure | err | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i'm not going to singapore | 19:05 |
| kanzure | that was someone else's email that i forwarded | 19:05 |
| wolfspraul | ah :-) | 19:05 |
| wolfspraul | well then | 19:05 |
| kanzure | sorry for the confusion | 19:05 |
| kanzure | my next travel destination is boston for a conference called humanity+ summit 2010 | 19:06 |
| wolfspraul | what do you want to do in your HQ? | 19:06 |
| kanzure | i want to have enough resources to build things without being pressured to be a commercial success | 19:06 |
| kanzure | but i wouldn't mind also doing commercial hardware projects | 19:06 |
| kanzure | engineering consulting firms have always impressed me :> | 19:06 |
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| wolfspraul | 'build things' - like what? | 19:08 |
| wolfspraul | sounds like you should spend some time thinking before you start building :-) | 19:09 |
| kanzure | this stuff: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/doc/proposals/trans-tech.yaml | 19:09 |
| wolfspraul | can't help you with that | 19:10 |
| wolfspraul | I can only build plain old computers | 19:10 |
| kanzure | not all of it is biology | 19:10 |
| kanzure | there's stuff on there like exoskeletons, stewart platforms, repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulators, photolithography equipment, etc. | 19:10 |
| genehacker | do you build computers from scratch? | 19:11 |
| kanzure | no, i buy microprocessors usually | 19:12 |
| genehacker | *question for wolfspraul | 19:12 |
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| wolfspraul | no I try to make them work | 19:16 |
| kanzure | "You took the specified cutter path, and your workpiece was eaten by a grue." | 19:29 |
| genehacker | I should really play through Zork sometime... | 19:35 |
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| * fenn watches the door close behind wolfgang | 19:41 | |
| kanzure | that was odd. | 19:42 |
| kanzure | nice to see someone from qi-hardware showing up in here though | 19:42 |
| fenn | yeah i would like to know more about them, what they actually do and how it all works | 19:42 |
| kanzure | /join #qi-hardware | 19:42 |
| fenn | i idled for a while but nothing ever happened | 19:42 |
| fenn | i dont really get the nanonote tbh, what's it for, who would buy one | 19:44 |
| fenn | should be using something like the beagleboard processor i think | 19:44 |
| fenn | 32MB of ram, no ethernet, no wifi, and they were talking about leaving usb off because of the connector?? | 19:45 |
| kanzure | bkero: didn't you get one? | 19:46 |
| fenn | let's just dip it in black epoxy to make sure you can't get any data in/out | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i saw an olpc the other day | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i might have mentioned this | 19:46 |
| kanzure | but i spent like 10min trying to find the handcrank | 19:46 |
| fenn | "It's got a headphone jack. <3 I'm pretty much sold." <- the only comment | 19:46 |
| kanzure | turns out they left that particular feature off | 19:46 |
| fenn | yeah the crank comes with a special power supply that doesn't really exist | 19:46 |
| genehacker | is the crank even practical? | 19:47 |
| kanzure | "nooo! my phd thesis!" - abdul's last words before cranking his poor heart out | 19:48 |
| fenn | http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Freecharge_portable_charger#Hand_cranked_power | 19:48 |
| * kanzure wonders where quantumkat went | 19:48 | |
| kanzure | hmph | 19:48 |
| genehacker | whoa only 6 watts | 19:49 |
| genehacker | that's pretty reasonable actually | 19:49 |
| fenn | dammit why do i have to do everything | 19:50 |
| fenn | there ought to be a leg-strappable pull cord generator out there already | 19:50 |
| kanzure | put that weight to good use! | 19:50 |
| fenn | hand cranked .. pff | 19:50 |
| genehacker | damn, now where's that chart showing how much energy you can harness from human body heat? | 19:51 |
| kanzure | from human body heat? not sure i saw that one | 19:51 |
| genehacker | yep | 19:51 |
| genehacker | remember the matrix? someone actually did the calculations on how much you could get out | 19:51 |
| genehacker | actually how much you can get out from different parts of the body | 19:52 |
| fenn | uh, wouldnt that cause the human to overheat? | 19:52 |
| genehacker | not sure | 19:52 |
| fenn | or die of hypothermia | 19:52 |
| genehacker | I think overheating is more likely | 19:53 |
| genehacker | after all the most efficient heat engines have lower heat rates | 19:53 |
| fenn | well, as long as you can turn it on and off | 19:53 |
| genehacker | let's see human puts out 60 watts of heat? | 19:55 |
| kanzure | i got a wireless internet usb dongle from someone who signed the letter as "- ARCHITECT" | 19:57 |
| kanzure | originating in .. london? | 19:58 |
| fenn | rogue AI | 19:58 |
| fenn | don't touch it, it's covered in nanites | 19:58 |
| kanzure | fuck! | 19:58 |
| kanzure | that wasn't mentioned on the "customs" sticker on the back | 19:58 |
| kanzure | maybe this connects to a super secret internet | 19:59 |
| kanzure | OR just infects the fuck out of my machines | 19:59 |
| genehacker | well at least it isn't a whole new see through laptop, loaded with malware and a secret message | 19:59 |
| genehacker | or maybe it's the CIA and they're onto us | 20:00 |
| kanzure | hi CIA-55 | 20:00 |
| fenn | at least you arent vietnamese and your official keyboard driver is a keylogger that reports to the government | 20:00 |
| genehacker | does that happen in vietnam? | 20:00 |
| fenn | hm i figured that story would be easier to find | 20:01 |
| genehacker | also my reference was the Hackers movie | 20:02 |
| fenn | hm there are lots of stupid camera tricks but it isnt that hard to make a transparent laptop screen, just remove the backlight | 20:04 |
| drazak | anyone in here ever run a mackie 1604? | 20:04 |
| genehacker | no gameboy transparent | 20:05 |
| bkero | kanzure: I have a Nexus One | 20:07 |
| kanzure | i opted to buy a backflip | 20:07 |
| bkero | Oh, a nanonote. It's on order. | 20:08 |
| kanzure | why did you get one | 20:08 |
| kanzure | a nanonote, i mean | 20:08 |
| bkero | hardware work | 20:08 |
| kanzure | wut? | 20:08 |
| fenn | yay for websites that crash my browser | 20:08 |
| kanzure | yay for non-exclusive sets | 20:08 |
| * kanzure puts the hit on galois | 20:09 | |
| jrayhawk | I also have an n810 lying around that I don't use if you want the world's baddest-ass PDA. | 21:05 |
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| * fenn mutters about trains | 21:17 | |
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| genehacker | so I heard somewhere from my old physics teacher(not a very good one...) that the reason our eyes start hurting after staring at computer screen for a long time is that they heat up | 23:12 |
| genehacker | oh hell I know radiation heat transfer, I should be solving this... | 23:14 |
| JayDugger | Why? That's pretty obviously wrong. | 23:16 |
| JayDugger | As for kanzure's phone, that has a nicer camera than the original Droid. I don't know whether I'd take the trade-off for no keyboard. | 23:18 |
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