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| JayDugger | Ha! | 05:55 |
|---|---|---|
| JayDugger | Retweeted by not one, but two authors I like! | 05:55 |
| JayDugger | The "pleasant, simple, true; pick two" from here over the weekend. | 05:57 |
| JayDugger | I did get one-upped with "smart, honest, effective." That's okay. | 05:58 |
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| kanzure | http://blueobelisk.shapado.com/questions/is-there-a-chemical-ontology-which-i-can-use-to-annotate-my-chemical-reactions | 09:36 |
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| kanzure | open source nanotech http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1330731 | 09:44 |
| kanzure | biocurious has a wiki http://www.biocurious.org/index.php?title=BiocuriousWiki:Current_events | 09:45 |
| kanzure | http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/05/billions-of-self-assembled-light.html | 09:45 |
| kanzure | http://www.cs.duke.edu/~alvy/papers/nsc-ret_final.pdf | 09:45 |
| kanzure | http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/2010/05/selfreplicating-nanorobots-now-possible.html | 09:46 |
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| kanzure | blender: " | 11:31 |
| kanzure | blender: " | 11:31 |
| kanzure | IIRC, it's source code was purchased from the license holders and made open-source thanks to this same sort of thing. | 11:31 |
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| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/google-mobwrite/ patch theory code | 11:49 |
| kanzure | lepton_: what's the fastest turn around time that you've seen in a machine shop or engineering firm for idea-to-prototype? | 11:53 |
| kanzure | preferably for internal ideas, but funded ideas too.. but i think they might be in separate categories | 11:53 |
| lepton_ | How broadly are you defining idea-to-prototype | 11:54 |
| lepton_ | Because I've "oh no we need a bracket" to the bracket existing in less than 24 hours | 11:55 |
| kanzure | hm | 11:55 |
| lepton_ | But that's a pretty narrow scope (simple parts) | 11:55 |
| kanzure | fundamentally i want to complain about my experienced differences in prototyping time | 11:55 |
| kanzure | between software and hardware | 11:55 |
| kanzure | for software, i can easily whip up lots of bullshit in under an hour | 11:55 |
| kanzure | for machining, i find it much harder.. sourcing materials and such. | 11:55 |
| lepton_ | it helps a lot to have inertia to go off of | 11:56 |
| kanzure | :) | 11:56 |
| lepton_ | As in, a stock of material already on site | 11:56 |
| kanzure | have you heard of "mental inertia" | 11:56 |
| kanzure | right | 11:56 |
| lepton_ | sure | 11:56 |
| kanzure | but it costs money to accumulate stock material | 11:56 |
| kanzure | http://improvingoneself.blogspot.com/2007/12/mental-inertia.html | 11:56 |
| kanzure | http://www.autistics.org/library/inertia.html | 11:56 |
| lepton_ | aluminum recyclers are a great low cost material source | 11:56 |
| kanzure | another issue is that i started off assuming i'd be near broke forever, so i was always trying to think in terms of avoiding money :) | 11:57 |
| lepton_ | and the more projects tend to just in more material scape accumlating | 11:57 |
| kanzure | so.. calculations for how many coke cans i'd have to melt down for a 2x8x1 inch aluminum cast | 11:57 |
| lepton_ | ^oh my, my bad grammer | 11:57 |
| kanzure | but now that i have some money, that has changed a bit | 11:57 |
| kanzure | but it's still perplexing to me | 11:58 |
| kanzure | i also notice that others at the hackerspace take a pretty long time for turn around too | 11:58 |
| kanzure | we've had a half-finished mechmate for 1.5 years now | 11:58 |
| kanzure | the project is measured in years! that's unacceptable, imho | 11:58 |
| lepton_ | Yeah, it can be tricky to get up and running | 11:58 |
| lepton_ | Took us about a month at full time to got our shop functional | 11:59 |
| kanzure | what does functional mean | 11:59 |
| lepton_ | We can make parts | 11:59 |
| lepton_ | :) | 11:59 |
| kanzure | so the reason i asked about lowest turn around time is because i'd like to go meet the "fastest machinist" | 12:00 |
| kanzure | if that makes sense | 12:00 |
| kanzure | machining operations take the same amount of time no matter where you go | 12:00 |
| kanzure | but it's all the other stuff that matters too | 12:00 |
| lepton_ | not always, different machines do have different feed / speed / load capabilities | 12:01 |
| kanzure | like material sourcing, organization, getting stuff done | 12:01 |
| kanzure | heh | 12:01 |
| lepton_ | A part it takes me 10 mineuts to do some machines could do in 1 | 12:01 |
| lepton_ | or 0.5 | 12:01 |
| kanzure | yes but usually the order of magnitude is not significant | 12:01 |
| lepton_ | True | 12:01 |
| kanzure | anyway, 1.5 years for a mechmate project wouldn't be changed much by a 1min or 10min machining time for parts | 12:01 |
| lepton_ | And often setup is the biggest time component anyway | 12:01 |
| lepton_ | or finshing work | 12:01 |
| lepton_ | ^Very true | 12:01 |
| lepton_ | In my experience one of the more time consuming aspects of having a a well setup CNC system is getting setup with different kinds of tooling | 12:03 |
| lepton_ | straight end mills, ball-nose end mills, chamfer mills, fillet cutters, surfacers, keyseat cutters, etc etc | 12:04 |
| kanzure | maybe i have a warped perspective since the hackerspace isn't a fully equipped machine shop yet | 12:04 |
| lepton_ | all with different kinds of materials, geometries, and what not | 12:04 |
| kanzure | perhaps things get smoother once you actually have functioning tools? | 12:04 |
| lepton_ | It takes time to get things programmed in well | 12:04 |
| lepton_ | sure! | 12:04 |
| kanzure | i can't quite run down at midnight at the moment and cut up some chunks of metal into funny shapes for the hell of it | 12:04 |
| lepton_ | I think it gets progressivly easier | 12:04 |
| lepton_ | Oh yeah, fixturing | 12:05 |
| kanzure | i should send you an inventory list | 12:05 |
| kanzure | the inventory hasn't changed much in a year's time (guh) | 12:05 |
| lepton_ | that's another huge element of CNC work and time consumption | 12:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: how long did your gingery lathe take? | 12:05 |
| kanzure | fenn's been working on hextatic, a stewart platform cnc machine, for at least half a decade now :( | 12:05 |
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| kanzure | lepton_: did you get my last two messages re: fenn? | 12:07 |
| lepton42 | I don't think so | 12:07 |
| kanzure | fenn: how long did your gingery lathe take? | 12:07 |
| kanzure | fenn's been working on hextatic, a stewart platform cnc machine, for at least half a decade now :( | 12:07 |
| lepton42 | 3G is not so great today | 12:07 |
| lepton42 | Ah yes, I did get that | 12:07 |
| lepton42 | I've been attracted to that mechanical design for a while | 12:08 |
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| lepton_ | Damn these telecomm networks | 12:10 |
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| lepton_ | kanzure: Yesterday you said I should bug you about getting instructions for compiling GEOM for PythonOCC in a fresh Ubuntu 10.04 install... | 12:15 |
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| lepton_ | CNC Post Processor testing time! | 12:39 |
| fenn | omg kanzure when you say it like that i feel old :( | 13:07 |
| fenn | gingery took about a year elapsed, 3 months continuous | 13:07 |
| fenn | with breaks for meals and being lazy etc of course | 13:08 |
| fenn | i was in college at the time | 13:08 |
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| kanzure | fenn: do you want to take a stab at pythonocc 0.4 + GEOM + SMESH? | 13:30 |
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| kanzure | it's okay if you say no, of course | 13:33 |
| kanzure | just if you have time now, it will be quicker than lepton_ waiting until later today when i get it hacked out | 13:33 |
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| lepton_ | I'm not in a rush today | 13:53 |
| lepton_ | I'm gonna be working on our post processor for the rest of the foreseeable day/evening | 13:53 |
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| fenn | no thanks | 14:12 |
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| fenn | man, wikipedia is way better than these stanford class notes | 15:55 |
| fenn | why did it take me so long to figure this out? | 15:56 |
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| fenn | wonder if this was coded up from scratch: | 16:20 |
| kanzure | .. | 16:37 |
| kanzure | fenn: ? | 16:38 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Airy-3d.svg | 16:39 |
| fenn | sorry, connection is bunk | 16:40 |
| fenn | says "made in chipmunk basic" | 16:40 |
| kanzure | heh | 16:40 |
| kanzure | gnuplot has an svg export i think, btw | 16:40 |
| fenn | does anything do curves instead of line segments? | 16:44 |
| fenn | ok this is annoying | 16:44 |
| Dustbin | curves instead of line segments in what | 16:45 |
| fenn | in the plot | 16:48 |
| Dustbin | in exporting a plot? | 16:48 |
| Dustbin | don't know anything about that | 16:49 |
| fenn | like IGES instead of a quad mesh | 16:49 |
| fenn | it doesnt matter, nevermind | 16:49 |
| kanzure | alright, i have 3 extra tickets to h+ summit 2010 | 16:54 |
| kanzure | plus a discount code for 20% off | 16:54 |
| drazak | where is it? | 16:54 |
| kanzure | boston | 16:54 |
| drazak | when is it? | 16:55 |
| kanzure | june 12/13 | 16:55 |
| fenn | um.. how is it? | 16:55 |
| fenn | why is it? | 16:55 |
| drazak | mhm | 16:55 |
| kanzure | http://hplussummit.com/speakers.html | 16:56 |
| drazak | I might be in boston around then | 16:56 |
| kanzure | i should have opted for a million trillion tickets | 16:56 |
| drazak | depends on my class schedule | 16:56 |
| kanzure | hahah ticket scalping for h+ | 16:56 |
| kanzure | YES | 16:56 |
| fenn | you FOOL | 16:56 |
| kanzure | hm? | 16:56 |
| drazak | you're speaking? | 16:56 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:56 |
| drazak | bitchin | 16:56 |
| drazak | if I don't have classes then I might go | 16:57 |
| kanzure | also demoing a facebook app via andrew hessel's presentation | 16:57 |
| drazak | and if my aunt/uncle have a couch | 16:57 |
| kanzure | i think my talk is right before ray's | 16:57 |
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| kanzure | oh boy | 16:57 |
| kanzure | i want joseph jackson to go on after ray though | 16:57 |
| kanzure | it's a nice compare/contrast | 16:57 |
| drazak | you've got a grammar mistake on your bio | 16:58 |
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| fenn | jeebus that's a lot of speakers | 16:59 |
| kanzure | drazak: the last sentence? | 16:59 |
| drazak | yeah | 16:59 |
| drazak | fenn: that's what I fuckin' said | 16:59 |
| kanzure | "you can find him or call him" | 16:59 |
| drazak | no | 16:59 |
| drazak | the other last sentence | 16:59 |
| kanzure | .. | 16:59 |
| * kanzure slaps drazak with a trout | 16:59 | |
| drazak | "lately he spends his waking hours at the recently new hackerspace..." | 17:00 |
| drazak | that's the last sentence of the body | 17:00 |
| kanzure | hm | 17:00 |
| kanzure | so, what's wrong with it? | 17:00 |
| drazak | "recently new" | 17:00 |
| kanzure | are you sure? what rule does that fuck | 17:01 |
| drazak | it's awkward, and new doesn't match because recently is an adverb | 17:01 |
| kanzure | it's definitely awkward | 17:01 |
| drazak | recently is an adverb, no noun | 17:01 |
| drazak | lately is on spends, recently is on ?? | 17:01 |
| fenn | new is only a verb in c++ | 17:01 |
| drazak | oh man, you guys are at harvard? | 17:01 |
| kanzure | yeah | 17:01 |
| kanzure | harvard, bitch! | 17:02 |
| fenn | i thought drazak was at harvard | 17:02 |
| kanzure | brown? | 17:02 |
| drazak | I've totally been where you're going to be | 17:02 |
| drazak | me? | 17:02 |
| drazak | fucking community college for 2 semesters | 17:02 |
| drazak | my grades suck | 17:02 |
| drazak | but that's ok | 17:02 |
| fenn | didnt you do some summer internship or something? | 17:02 |
| drazak | yeah | 17:02 |
| kanzure | nepotism at its finest | 17:02 |
| drazak | fuck yeah | 17:03 |
| kanzure | hm the speakers.html page seems to be randomly displaying the speakers | 17:03 |
| fenn | this is a beautifully rendered portable toilet or something like that.. anyway http://www.cadsoftsolutions.co.uk/store/software/shark/shark/files/page124_6.jpg | 17:03 |
| kanzure | except for the first few rows | 17:03 |
| fenn | gah | 17:04 |
| kanzure | hey since when is mark hatch the ceo of techshop? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | when did that happen | 17:04 |
| kanzure | and why didn't i know about it | 17:04 |
| drazak | I think it is | 17:04 |
| fenn | why do you care? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | because jim newton hit me up for money for his precious techshop | 17:04 |
| kanzure | but where did that money go if.. uh | 17:04 |
| fenn | jim newton hit you up for money? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:05 |
| fenn | i hope you didnt give it to him | 17:05 |
| kanzure | i did not. | 17:06 |
| kanzure | so what's wrong with scalping, again? | 17:08 |
| fenn | it may be illegal | 17:09 |
| kanzure | besides that | 17:09 |
| fenn | nothing | 17:09 |
| kanzure | "bryan's latest get rich quick scheme" haha | 17:09 |
| fenn | does anybody actually understand the laplace transform? | 17:11 |
| fenn | and not in a trivial "it's like the fourier transform" sense | 17:11 |
| fenn | i'm trying to figure out what this means: "any LTI system can be characterized in the frequency domain by the system's transfer function, which is the Laplace transform of the system's impulse response" | 17:11 |
| kanzure | yay babble | 17:12 |
| fenn | LTI=linear time invariant | 17:12 |
| fenn | god i hate math | 17:13 |
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| fenn | especially shit like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_delta_function | 17:17 |
| fenn | a 'function' ?(x) that has the value zero everywhere except at x = 0 where its value is infinitely large in such a way that its total integral is 1 | 17:18 |
| fenn | not just any infinity, a particular value of infinity | 17:18 |
| fenn | why? "because the math works out better that way" | 17:18 |
| klafka | it's a pretty weird function as functions go | 17:19 |
| fenn | how come i'm not allowed to just make shit up like that | 17:19 |
| klafka | you are if you can prove something awesome with it | 17:19 |
| klafka | like the ending to a futurama episode | 17:20 |
| fenn | "find the integral of f(x)" "1" "why" "because I said so" | 17:20 |
| klafka | it's weird that it's the limit of of the sequence of gaussians | 17:21 |
| klafka | but kinda makes sense | 17:21 |
| kanzure | why isn't this working? | 17:42 |
| kanzure | datetime.datetime.strptime("2010-05-07 21:32:46 -0500", "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S %z") | 17:42 |
| kanzure | ValueError: 'z' is a bad directive in format '%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S %z' | 17:42 |
| kanzure | http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#strftime-strptime-behavior | 17:43 |
| kanzure | according to the documentation, %z is valid | 17:43 |
| fenn | well this is rather nifty: | 17:46 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_differentiation | 17:46 |
| kanzure | http://bugs.python.org/issue6641 hm.. | 17:46 |
| kanzure | god damn it | 17:46 |
| kanzure | it's 2010, we should support #$!S@ZXcfefeq timezones | 17:47 |
| fenn | hm i could use this machine learning stuff for discovering the parameters of a stewart platform | 17:50 |
| klafka | oh yeah fenn i just learned about that in my statistical machine learning class a few weeks ago | 17:50 |
| klafka | auto diff is very much like backprop | 17:50 |
| kanzure | symbolic regression is hot | 17:50 |
| klafka | yeah | 17:51 |
| klafka | there is some haskell package setup for autodiff i saw recently | 17:51 |
| kanzure | also, hod lipson did a symbolic regression paper | 17:51 |
| kanzure | http://ccsl.mae.cornell.edu/eureqa_download | 17:51 |
| fenn | klafka you're taking a class? | 17:51 |
| fenn | what have you covered so far? | 17:51 |
| klafka | http://people.rit.edu/~jcdicsa/courses/SML/ | 17:52 |
| kanzure | http://ccsl.mae.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/Schmidt-Final-2009-06-05.pdf | 17:52 |
| klafka | class just ended this week | 17:52 |
| kanzure | heh, SVMs can be fun :) | 17:52 |
| fenn | rawr /me spears the lag monster dead | 17:52 |
| fenn | yeah i was thinking earlier tha haskell would be a good fit for this stuff | 17:52 |
| klafka | kanzure, SVMs were a pain | 17:53 |
| klafka | actually boosted decision stumps were very fun | 17:53 |
| klafka | i like that shit a lot | 17:53 |
| fenn | everyone says "SVMs are vun" but what's fun about it? | 17:54 |
| kanzure | that's fenn's russian showing through | 17:54 |
| fenn | it's just a fitting problem like every other regressionan | 17:54 |
| fenn | argh | 17:54 |
| kanzure | i mean more what they are used for, more than anything else | 17:54 |
| fenn | i havent learned any russian cuss words yet | 17:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.sourcemap.org/ from kristianpaul re: copyleft hardware | 17:55 |
| fenn | bah it's all just "x kg CO2" | 17:57 |
| fenn | like i fucking care | 17:57 |
| fenn | the new dollar | 17:59 |
| fenn | a totally useless number yet valued for its shared understandability | 17:59 |
| * kanzure clicks | 18:00 | |
| kanzure | omg this looks terrible | 18:00 |
| kanzure | but people are going to eat this up | 18:00 |
| fenn | i'm surprised at how new all of these machine learning algorithms are.. seems like all this should have been figured out in the 1930's | 18:01 |
| klafka | SVMs are basically a form of template methods | 18:01 |
| klafka | fenn, not really | 18:01 |
| klafka | a lot of ML methods are inherently not probabilistic | 18:02 |
| klafka | also the 30's was when modern probability hteory was founded basically | 18:02 |
| klafka | 20's/30's | 18:02 |
| klafka | SVMs seem to be useful because they work with very little tweaking, to some extent, but they have a ton of drawbacks IMO | 18:02 |
| klafka | well that and they _can_ have massive computational benefits when doing complex and expensive basis expansions | 18:04 |
| fenn | i'm still learning about it.. basically they are n-dimensional linear discriminators right? | 18:04 |
| fenn | we havent even talked about computational cost, which seems like a fucktard move t | 18:05 |
| klafka | um i'm not sure about linear... ugh the term linear has taken on more confusing connotations since i've learned more about ML | 18:06 |
| fenn | "hey cs people, it's not math!" | 18:06 |
| klafka | what an SVM is is minimizing the hinge loss | 18:06 |
| klafka | or what it does rather | 18:06 |
| klafka | is a technique for minimizing hinge loss | 18:06 |
| klafka | my advisor told me hinge loss with ridge regularization, but i've had someone dispute that w/ me so i'm not sure | 18:07 |
| klafka | the reason it's nice for minimizing hinge loss, is hinge loss is non-differentiable | 18:07 |
| klafka | so things like GD don't really work | 18:07 |
| fenn | yeah i agree, i used to think linear meant "line" :( | 18:07 |
| klafka | heh yeah | 18:07 |
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| lepton_ | fenn: You still having Lapace space trouble? | 18:13 |
| lepton_ | Laplace* | 18:13 |
| fenn | i guess. it's one of those things i look at every ytear and can't vfigure out | 18:13 |
| fenn | also i'm terribly lagged. | 18:14 |
| lepton_ | I didn't like it until my last year of school | 18:14 |
| lepton_ | and then I realized how much easier it made things, and all the sudden it seemed easy | 18:14 |
| lepton_ | What are you working on? | 18:14 |
| fenn | machine learning homework via wikipedia ramble | 18:15 |
| klafka | lol | 18:15 |
| klafka | my final in it is on weds | 18:15 |
| klafka | ugh it's intense | 18:15 |
| fenn | i realized the explanations in the course notes were even worse than wikipedia so i'd do myself a favor | 18:15 |
| klafka | wow | 18:16 |
| klafka | that sucks | 18:16 |
| klafka | the notes in the above link are pretty good | 18:16 |
| klafka | i think | 18:16 |
| klafka | also andrew ng's notes are also good | 18:16 |
| fenn | ~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~yes i'm reading the backprop notes and it actually makes sense the first time around (for once) | 18:18 |
| klafka | haha my advisor will be happy ot hear that | 18:18 |
| lepton_ | :) | 18:18 |
| fenn | klafka: andrew ng's notes are what i'm trying to avoid in the first place | 18:21 |
| klafka | lol are you taking his class? | 18:22 |
| klafka | or does your teacher just use them | 18:23 |
| fenn | ng tends to give less than the minimum amount of information required to solve the problem | 18:23 |
| klafka | aah | 18:23 |
| klafka | idk i found some of his notes useful | 18:23 |
| fenn | i'm constantly wondering "wtf is L" or similar | 18:23 |
| klafka | LOL | 18:23 |
| fenn | i'm taking the hacker dojo remix of cs229 | 18:24 |
| fenn | which is basically "do the homework ahead of time and we'll wank off for an hour" | 18:24 |
| klafka | lol | 18:24 |
| kanzure | how is that different from the actual class | 18:24 |
| fenn | but i never seem to get around to actually doing the homework :\ | 18:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: the difference is i dont have to do the homework :) | 18:25 |
| fenn | it's fucking stupid problems anyway | 18:25 |
| fenn | "manually calculate the desecond derivative of this arbitrary thing we arent going to tell you why it's importantn" | 18:25 |
| kanzure | wait | 18:25 |
| kanzure | so a few things you have said tonight have thrown me off | 18:26 |
| kanzure | second derivatives and simple integrals of continuous, smooth functions and such | 18:26 |
| kanzure | and then you complain about fourier transforms and laplace transforms in a complex number plane or something | 18:26 |
| kanzure | so which is it? a simple calculus class or what | 18:26 |
| fenn | yes, doesn't sound much like a discrete computer problem does it | 18:26 |
| kanzure | there are discrete methods of approximating integrals with polynomials i guess | 18:27 |
| fenn | most of it has been about calculus and matrix algebra so far, which doesn't make sense to me | 18:27 |
| fenn | wtf am i supposed to do with this knowledge? | 18:27 |
| fenn | i've been out of school too long to just suck it up and hope they | 18:27 |
| fenn | bestow enlightenment on us at theend of the class | 18:28 |
| klafka | you mean the hessian | 18:28 |
| klafka | hessians are actually really important for newton's methods and approximate newtons methods like BFGS | 18:28 |
| klafka | also for proving convexity | 18:29 |
| fenn | kanzure: above "automatic differentiation" link would have been useful to know about, can bypass all we've learned in class so far pretty much | 18:29 |
| kanzure | if i had ops, i'd kickban acroynm users | 18:29 |
| klafka | which is important for a large number of algorithms | 18:29 |
| kanzure | fenn: i didn't click it, but is it symbolic differentiation stuff? | 18:29 |
| klafka | kanzure, it's basically forward prop/back prop | 18:29 |
| kanzure | okay. | 18:29 |
| fenn | klafka yeah, see http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs229/ps1.pdf | 18:29 |
| fenn | no | 18:30 |
| fenn | gah | 18:30 |
| fenn | they dont explain what i'm supposed to do with knowledge of calculus that has anything to do with millions of data points | 18:31 |
| klafka | see it makes sense to find the hessian there though man, by finding the hessian and proving it's negative semi-definite you've shown that the solution you arrive at via some optimization method is the global optimum | 18:31 |
| lepton_ | Done with CNC post programming for the day, heading back home. Good luck with Lady Math, she's a harsh but rewarding mistress | 18:32 |
| klafka | fenn I contend that understanding the math behind the algorithms is important to understand why they work and allows you to know when you can apply the algorithm/methods to those millions of data points | 18:33 |
| fenn | so i have all this data, and i'm trying to approximate it with a linear function, and somehow i'm proving the gradient of changing parameters is bowl shaped? | 18:33 |
| fenn | the bowl-shapedness of the parameter space is not under my control anyway so who cares if it's is ior not? | 18:33 |
| klafka | it matters because if it wasn't then the approximation could be arbitrarily bad | 18:33 |
| klafka | that's actually why we use logistic loss | 18:33 |
| klafka | as opposed to the 0-1 loss or the hinge loss | 18:33 |
| klafka | the logistic loss is the closest approximation to the 0-1 loss that is differentiable | 18:34 |
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| fenn | klafka: the prooblem is that was the first homework problem, and we're totally unprepared for what it was or why we're doing it | 18:34 |
| klafka | the hinge loss is the closest approximation to the 0-1 loss that is um continous (I believe) | 18:34 |
| fenn | in fact i still dont understand why it's important to know hot w to do that | 18:34 |
| fenn | i hate typing blind | 18:34 |
| fenn | maybe i should connect locally then i can just timeout a bunch instead | 18:34 |
| klafka | lol | 18:34 |
| klafka | it's important because it gives you a deeper understanding of why peopledo these things | 18:35 |
| klafka | i mean you could just learn algo x does y, algo z does k but you're just memorizing shit | 18:35 |
| klafka | you're not gaining deeper understanding | 18:35 |
| klafka | although I can see how it should have been presented differently | 18:35 |
| klafka | i contend that these things are still useful to know | 18:36 |
| fenn | also wikipedia is html and not pdf which is a huge bonus in terms of speed | 18:37 |
| fenn | klafka here's an example how bad it is at explaining stuff | 18:38 |
| fenn | i went through the whole chapter on logistic regression | 18:38 |
| fenn | without realizing that the "log" in logistic was for "logical" not "logarithm" | 18:38 |
| klafka | lol | 18:38 |
| klafka | the real kick in the pants is that logistic regression is for CLASSIFICATION not regression | 18:39 |
| kanzure | why do math students put up with this? | 18:39 |
| klafka | kanzure, most math students never touch this stuff | 18:39 |
| klafka | this is pretty strictly the purview of CS | 18:39 |
| kanzure | why do any students put up with this, then | 18:39 |
| fenn | klafka it's ok because nobody seems to know what regression ameans anyway | 18:39 |
| klafka | lol | 18:40 |
| klafka | true true | 18:40 |
| fenn | another example of badness: i thought locally weighted linear regression returned a linear function (y=mx+b) | 18:42 |
| fenn | turns out it's just some kind of spatial filte | 18:42 |
| fenn | ring like a gaussian blur | 18:42 |
| klafka | yeah | 18:45 |
| fenn | i dont even know why it was included in the same chapter | 18:45 |
| klafka | linear regression is a confusing idea imo | 18:45 |
| klafka | in the same chapter as? | 18:45 |
| klafka | logistic regression? | 18:46 |
| klafka | yeah i didn't like that either | 18:46 |
| fenn | as linear regression | 18:46 |
| klafka | ah | 18:46 |
| fenn | (hint: it's not regression!) | 18:46 |
| fenn | there really arent enough pictures in ng's notes or lectures | 18:48 |
| fenn | he sprinkles in a few greaphs that all look the same | 18:48 |
| klafka | yeah | 18:48 |
| klafka | you should really check out my advisors notes | 18:48 |
| klafka | particularly his linear methods notes | 18:48 |
| klafka | he talks about linear regression, also talks about logistic regression | 18:48 |
| klafka | has a lot of really cool graphs actually | 18:48 |
| klafka | http://people.rit.edu/~jcdicsa/courses/SML/03linear.pdf | 18:48 |
| klafka | alternatively the elements of statistical learning does too | 18:49 |
| fenn | ok will do | 18:49 |
| klafka | but some of his notes are pretty unique | 18:50 |
| klafka | ugh you totally distracted me from this terrible paper i'm writing | 18:51 |
| klafka | at least now it's running | 18:51 |
| klafka | err the code is running | 18:51 |
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| kristianpaul | kanzure: yeah is not so good but the code is avaliable if i'm not wrong | 19:18 |
| kristianpaul | at least for making something really touching important aspects to think about when stuff is made | 19:20 |
| * kristianpaul off bed | 19:20 | |
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| kanzure | hm where did lepton go | 19:30 |
| kanzure | i was about to ask him on his upload progress | 19:30 |
| kanzure | and the path location :/ | 19:30 |
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| ybit | thanks kanzure for installing uzbl on davinci | 22:35 |
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| fenn | ybit: you're welcome | 23:22 |
| kanzure | ybit: you're welcome | 23:24 |
| kanzure | oh fuck | 23:24 |
| fenn | lulz | 23:38 |
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