| --- Day changed Fri May 21 2010 | ||
| klafka | no it's shipping | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| klafka | atm | 00:00 |
| klafka | heh i saw george church talk earlier this year | 00:00 |
| kanzure | fenn: how can i fix that | 00:00 |
| kanzure | is paypal too terrible? | 00:00 |
| klafka | he's all about being "open" without being really open | 00:00 |
| kanzure | so he's fo-open | 00:00 |
| kanzure | he's bropen, or broken | 00:00 |
| klafka | haha | 00:00 |
| neobii | fauxpen | 00:00 |
| klafka | like he's doing this http://www.personalgenomes.org/ | 00:00 |
| fenn | "so how do you pay the bills?" "oh i work for a secret romanian countess desiring of immortality, who i've never met or know anything at all about" | 00:00 |
| kanzure | among other things | 00:01 |
| kanzure | what's your point? | 00:01 |
| neobii | hey look | 00:01 |
| neobii | are you a rail developer? | 00:01 |
| klafka | wow really? | 00:01 |
| kanzure | no go away | 00:01 |
| fenn | well, a budget would be a start | 00:01 |
| klafka | kanzure that's kind of awesome | 00:01 |
| neobii | haha it says it on thatp age | 00:01 |
| kanzure | klafka: thanks, at least one of us thinks so | 00:01 |
| klafka | but like that site is church's, he wants to sequence 100,000 people's genomes | 00:02 |
| klafka | and has started already | 00:02 |
| klafka | but notice, none of the data is out there | 00:02 |
| klafka | where the fuck is your open data | 00:02 |
| klafka | george | 00:02 |
| kanzure | klafka: it's a well known fact that the incumbents are full of it | 00:02 |
| fenn | kanzure also, while i appreciate the money, it's not anywhere close to any other option in terms of sheer numbers | 00:02 |
| kanzure | hm | 00:03 |
| fenn | guh. i hate talking about this kind of thing | 00:03 |
| kanzure | so does it need a few more digits? | 00:03 |
| fenn | yeah | 00:03 |
| kanzure | ok. how many. | 00:03 |
| kanzure | (in total) | 00:03 |
| fenn | depends on the time period | 00:03 |
| kanzure | klafka: so yeah, i have funding for crazy projects | 00:03 |
| klafka | oh wow | 00:04 |
| klafka | so i take it back | 00:04 |
| kanzure | i'm not allowed to pay for food or stuff for just me like that | 00:04 |
| klafka | he is in fact making the data public | 00:04 |
| klafka | http://www.personalgenomes.org/public/3.html | 00:04 |
| klafka | http://www.personalgenomes.org/public/ | 00:04 |
| fenn | opportunity cost: I can make $40k/yr at minimum on like any "real" job out there | 00:04 |
| kanzure | reality check: you won't | 00:04 |
| fenn | O RLY | 00:04 |
| klafka | one of them is steven pinker too | 00:04 |
| kanzure | or shouldn't :/ | 00:04 |
| fenn | also i dont understand why (if?) hackerspace membership dues "don't count" | 00:05 |
| kanzure | why are they charging you anyway? | 00:06 |
| klafka | kanzure i want to make an open NGS bio repository that aims to package bio data in ways that ML people can easily use and facilitate cross-communicatoin and collaboration between ML and BIO people | 00:06 |
| klafka | you can fund that if you wan | 00:06 |
| klafka | t | 00:06 |
| klafka | :) | 00:06 |
| fenn | rent.. stuff. | 00:06 |
| klafka | yeah | 00:06 |
| fenn | why does anything cost anything? | 00:06 |
| kanzure | OR free rent with me? but i'm boring ;) | 00:06 |
| kanzure | oh wait you mean the hackerspace | 00:06 |
| klafka | no rent for the hackerspace | 00:06 |
| fenn | tbh i could probably just show up every day and not pay dues and nobody would notice | 00:07 |
| kanzure | i hate recurring payments | 00:07 |
| klafka | As a result of system improvements, the current sell price is 170,000 USD. | 00:07 |
| kanzure | or recurring costs or whatever you call them | 00:07 |
| fenn | or move to SF and go to noisebridge which is hostile to the concept of dues | 00:07 |
| klafka | come on a polonator is only 170 grand | 00:07 |
| klafka | noisebridge doesn't have dues? | 00:07 |
| klafka | just donations? | 00:07 |
| kanzure | like at $100/mo, in 50 years that's $60k | 00:08 |
| fenn | but the talent of people you run into at the dojo is higher than random person in noisebridge | 00:08 |
| fenn | 50 years is a long time | 00:08 |
| klafka | what's wrong with that kanzure | 00:08 |
| kanzure | i am still thinking like a broke guy | 00:08 |
| klafka | they are going to have to pay rent every month of those 50 years | 00:08 |
| kanzure | it's weird | 00:08 |
| fenn | noisebridge dues are $80/mo but there's no obligation to be a member | 00:09 |
| fenn | rent is stupid, there's no answer | 00:09 |
| fenn | if it's not rent it's taxes | 00:09 |
| fenn | rent is basically taxes, that's how i think of it | 00:09 |
| kanzure | are they going to tax the string in your pocket | 00:09 |
| fenn | yeah | 00:09 |
| fenn | used to be you had to pay x amount of grain or whatever, regardless if you had any growing in your field | 00:10 |
| fenn | if not you got beat up or something | 00:10 |
| kanzure | and now you get .. confused? | 00:10 |
| fenn | i'm confused | 00:11 |
| kanzure | have i shown you project projector yet? | 00:12 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org:8091/projector/projects/ (DON'T click "run" because it really sends out text messages) | 00:12 |
| fenn | maybe, i get the idea | 00:12 |
| fenn | it's like "manna" | 00:12 |
| fenn | but with cellphones | 00:12 |
| kanzure | it's kind of like my startup pyramid scheme | 00:12 |
| kanzure | basically i get 10 people excited | 00:12 |
| kanzure | and they get 10 other people excited | 00:12 |
| kanzure | there's no exit strategy or monetization yet, but i'm super excited about it | 00:12 |
| fenn | did you read "manna"? http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm | 00:13 |
| kanzure | no. is it a short story or a novel? | 00:13 |
| fenn | i think you need to make gantt charts | 00:13 |
| kanzure | why | 00:13 |
| kanzure | oh you mean on the site | 00:13 |
| kanzure | yes | 00:13 |
| fenn | manna is like 10 short chapters | 00:13 |
| fenn | gantt charts would force you to explicitly state the dependencies of each task so they can be parallelized.. that's what gantt charts are for | 00:14 |
| kanzure | i bought up promisepyramid.com today for this project actually | 00:14 |
| fenn | ew | 00:14 |
| kanzure | "i'll do x if 2 of my friends do y" | 00:14 |
| kanzure | http://getupandmove.me/ | 00:15 |
| klafka | interesting | 00:15 |
| kanzure | yay for pyramid schemes | 00:15 |
| fenn | double ew | 00:15 |
| kanzure | :/ | 00:15 |
| kanzure | that's what all this ycombinator / capital factory startup stuff is about | 00:15 |
| kanzure | pyramids of excitement | 00:15 |
| fenn | ycombinator funds some cool stuff | 00:15 |
| kanzure | yep | 00:15 |
| kanzure | getupandmove.me is one of their latest | 00:15 |
| fenn | oh. | 00:15 |
| klafka | alll of this web 2.0 stuff does just feel a bit like the internet wanking itself off | 00:17 |
| kanzure | yep | 00:17 |
| kanzure | http://capitalfactory.com/ is dumping some money into a startup i'm a part of for an iphone app | 00:18 |
| kanzure | we have like 50 competitors | 00:18 |
| fenn | every time you dis on ycombinator, a cute young white boy with a macbook dies | 00:18 |
| kanzure | hackers don't use mac | 00:18 |
| kanzure | or.. oh no | 00:18 |
| neobii | they use rails | 00:19 |
| kanzure | who does | 00:19 |
| fenn | i'm so sick of hearing about "startups" | 00:20 |
| fenn | can't you just say "i'm working at a small business" | 00:20 |
| kanzure | nvm | 00:20 |
| fenn | "i'm running a website" | 00:20 |
| klafka | lol | 00:20 |
| kanzure | well, actually, a small business is more accurate here | 00:20 |
| kanzure | these guys haven't a clue about startups | 00:20 |
| fenn | wtf is a startup | 00:20 |
| kanzure | i mean.. i keep pointing them to paul graham's articles | 00:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: usually something that is venture backed | 00:20 |
| klafka | lol | 00:20 |
| fenn | guh | 00:21 |
| kanzure | at first they wanted to spend all of the capfac money on salaries | 00:21 |
| kanzure | and you DON'T do that with a startup | 00:21 |
| fenn | its not like people dont invest in businesses | 00:21 |
| klafka | LOL | 00:21 |
| neobii | yeah it's easy for webstartups too | 00:21 |
| neobii | because almost 0 overhead | 00:21 |
| kanzure | neobii: are you foreign? | 00:21 |
| neobii | no dude I live in dallas | 00:21 |
| kanzure | wtf | 00:21 |
| fenn | he's a txtr | 00:22 |
| kanzure | are you high? | 00:22 |
| neobii | what? | 00:22 |
| Utopiah | nice conf on startups btw http://steveblank.com/2010/04/15/why-accountants-dont-run-startups/ (yes, just to be annoying) | 00:22 |
| neobii | I told you I went canoeing in austin haha | 00:22 |
| kanzure | fenn: i feel kind of bad that i've been running around doing all this random programming that isn't directly related to what i actually want to be doing | 00:22 |
| kanzure | does this make me a sellout? | 00:22 |
| fenn | no it makes you a whore | 00:23 |
| fenn | it's subtly different | 00:23 |
| neobii | I'm a sellout :-( | 00:25 |
| neobii | I made a bible verse memory flash app for one crazy religious dude | 00:25 |
| kanzure | i don't like how my email rate has gone down the past two months | 00:26 |
| neobii | we linked him to csszengarden | 00:26 |
| kanzure | like, actual content | 00:26 |
| kanzure | and #hplusroadmap has been somewhat quiet | 00:26 |
| neobii | and he said he wouldn't go because of the "zen" part | 00:26 |
| klafka | hahaha | 00:26 |
| kanzure | csszengarden is over rated | 00:26 |
| neobii | yeah it's a common place to show peeps | 00:27 |
| fenn | i've been busy making Actual Hardware (tm) | 00:27 |
| kanzure | i saw dave's "actual hardware" | 00:27 |
| fenn | did i mention i had the reprap moving (sorta) | 00:27 |
| kanzure | it's basically just a few bikes laying around next to a bridgeport | 00:27 |
| fenn | hey now! thems fightin words | 00:27 |
| kanzure | where did lepton go? | 00:28 |
| klafka | haha | 00:28 |
| fenn | everybody expects some discovery channel robotic factory | 00:28 |
| fenn | klafka: are you high? :P | 00:28 |
| klafka | also can you make led embedded devices w/ a reprap? | 00:28 |
| klafka | not really | 00:29 |
| klafka | that would be neat | 00:29 |
| kanzure | klafka is just an academician | 00:29 |
| kanzure | a grad student i think? | 00:29 |
| klafka | yeah | 00:29 |
| kanzure | yeah, so that should explain it | 00:29 |
| fenn | i need to make a bike blinky, i think i'm going to do that as the next non-reprap printed part | 00:29 |
| kanzure | but actually you're not so bad as far as grad students go | 00:29 |
| kanzure | or at least as they tend to go | 00:29 |
| klafka | haha howso? | 00:29 |
| neobii | do you have a reprap kanzure? | 00:30 |
| kanzure | neobii: no | 00:30 |
| kanzure | i don't know if i want one or not | 00:30 |
| fenn | you do | 00:30 |
| kanzure | i don't want a makerbot, i know that much | 00:30 |
| fenn | it's so much easier than figuring out how to clamp shit on the cnc | 00:31 |
| kanzure | so hey, we have all this equipment laying around | 00:31 |
| kanzure | between dave and me | 00:31 |
| kanzure | laser cutters, cnc machines, drill presses, the mechmate (ok ok it hasn't been worked on in forever) | 00:31 |
| kanzure | and free access to a waterjet cutter | 00:31 |
| kanzure | and a few SLS machines too | 00:31 |
| fenn | k, now what | 00:31 |
| kanzure | so why isn't anything happening | 00:31 |
| kanzure | why ain't designs for open source dna synthesizers flowing out my ass | 00:32 |
| fenn | well? | 00:32 |
| -!- genehacker [~genehacke@pool-173-57-40-144.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 00:32 | |
| fenn | dont need access to tools to make designs | 00:32 |
| fenn | why arent you hiring chinese grad students | 00:32 |
| neobii | hey dallas texas | 00:32 |
| kanzure | i don't know any chinese grad students | 00:32 |
| kanzure | so.. that's why i guess? | 00:32 |
| genehacker | hey | 00:33 |
| kanzure | i can't think of any other reason | 00:33 |
| genehacker | what? | 00:33 |
| kanzure | genehacker: what about you | 00:33 |
| fenn | how about indians in call centers | 00:33 |
| kanzure | why aren't you making me designs | 00:33 |
| klafka | yeah come on | 00:33 |
| klafka | open source dna sequencers | 00:33 |
| fenn | heh genehacker has no excuse | 00:33 |
| klafka | let's get to it | 00:33 |
| genehacker | I'm making one kanzure | 00:33 |
| kanzure | klafka: out of curiosity, have you read the channel logs? | 00:33 |
| klafka | no | 00:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: on second thought, genehacker is notoriously bad at documenting designs | 00:34 |
| klafka | reading channel logs is a lot of work | 00:34 |
| kanzure | true that | 00:34 |
| fenn | i havent seen him design anything | 00:34 |
| fenn | some pig catapult, if that counts | 00:34 |
| genehacker | ok then you want my fluidic sound amplifier that can probably be laser cut? | 00:34 |
| fenn | don't we have a list of word frequency? | 00:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: you have one on fennetic.net | 00:35 |
| kanzure | it turns up in my search results all the time | 00:35 |
| fenn | oh right, the pneumatic stepper was pretty cool | 00:35 |
| genehacker | I need to know what bolt sizes you have on hand before I can send it to you | 00:35 |
| genehacker | it's not finished yet | 00:35 |
| genehacker | I stopped development when the gada prize came out | 00:35 |
| fenn | ah so i do: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/histo3 | 00:35 |
| genehacker | with their 60 watt power limit | 00:35 |
| kanzure | klafka: this might be interesting: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/youtube_videos_from_irc_channel/ | 00:35 |
| fenn | just google the first thing you think of and you've probably already said it/done something with it | 00:36 |
| genehacker | I'm working on something secret | 00:36 |
| klafka | interesting | 00:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: does that make me a keyword squatter? | 00:36 |
| neobii | keywords would be: rails | 00:36 |
| genehacker | also I'll hopefully do some research with the SLS people here | 00:36 |
| fenn | hm need to filter out ip hostnames from that list | 00:36 |
| kanzure | genehacker: i'm doing a "startup" with two of the SLS grad students working for dr. beaman | 00:37 |
| genehacker | kanzure do you have any limits to what I can put on design files? | 00:37 |
| kanzure | so if you want it, you should meet with tim silverman and vikram dearajan | 00:37 |
| kanzure | *vikram devarajan | 00:37 |
| kanzure | put on design files? what do you mean.. on? | 00:37 |
| kanzure | oh you mean the server | 00:38 |
| kanzure | not on files that contain designs | 00:38 |
| kanzure | *sigh* | 00:38 |
| fenn | wow, "origami" was mentioned 42 times, versus 35 for "fuck" | 00:38 |
| kanzure | yeah there's limits. no porn. | 00:38 |
| kanzure | fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck | 00:38 |
| kanzure | fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck | 00:38 |
| fenn | ok now they're even | 00:38 |
| genehacker | something that'd get thingiverse in big trouble, no porn | 00:38 |
| genehacker | a working SILEX device that can be built by an amateur | 00:38 |
| klafka | 241 DNA | 00:39 |
| fenn | genehacker: make a hello kitty handgun | 00:39 |
| fenn | reprappable* | 00:39 |
| genehacker | YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND | 00:39 |
| genehacker | but seriously a SILEX device for refining uranium in your home | 00:39 |
| genehacker | SILEX works now | 00:39 |
| gnusha_ | origami origami origami origami origami | 00:39 |
| gnusha_ | origami origami origami origami origami | 00:39 |
| -!- You're now known as gnusha | 00:40 | |
| genehacker | origami hand gun that shoots papercranes? | 00:40 |
| fenn | http://onastick.net/sitz/images/ | 00:40 |
| klafka | timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi ti | 00:40 |
| klafka | mtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi timtowtdi | 00:40 |
| genehacker | it's impossible to print a hand gun fenn, not even printable ceramics can hold the pressures | 00:40 |
| klafka | why can't you print metal yet? | 00:41 |
| genehacker | reprap can't | 00:41 |
| klafka | :( | 00:41 |
| fenn | genehacker: that's an untested assumption | 00:41 |
| klafka | also can reprap do heterogenous materials yet? | 00:41 |
| fenn | the "cant hold pressures" thing anyway | 00:41 |
| fenn | they used to make cannons out of brass for fuck's sake | 00:41 |
| genehacker | err... I have moral problems with making pistols for reprap, it might get reprap in trouble and I can't allow that | 00:42 |
| fenn | anyway i've seen designs for crappy homemade pistols out of 1/4" water pipe | 00:42 |
| fenn | genehacker: hence why i suggested it | 00:42 |
| fenn | in the meantime, you may peruse http://glassdildome.com/ | 00:43 |
| klafka | lol | 00:43 |
| genehacker | but a SILEX device can also be used for plenty of moral things like bootstrapping nuclear power development, and since SILEX works we're all screwed anyway | 00:43 |
| fenn | er, what is SILEX? | 00:44 |
| fenn | oh, uranium enrichment | 00:44 |
| fenn | pff | 00:45 |
| genehacker | a uranium enrichment process that is magnitudes more efficient than other methods | 00:45 |
| kanzure | so anyway | 00:45 |
| kanzure | fenn: any other ideas for where to source designers | 00:45 |
| kanzure | i really want someone (or even me) to do an openscad solid geometry output plugin | 00:45 |
| fenn | iceland | 00:45 |
| genehacker | home CO2 lasers and a special excitable medium might allow one to do it in ones home | 00:45 |
| kanzure | then maybe i'll pay a few of the makerbot/openscad (ab)users to do design stuff? i don't know | 00:45 |
| fenn | and other nordic countries | 00:46 |
| kanzure | it's not like i can't do it, but | 00:46 |
| kanzure | blah | 00:46 |
| fenn | places where they still teach math | 00:46 |
| kanzure | my sense of development cycles for hardware is all out of whack | 00:46 |
| kanzure | why the fuck has mechmate taken more than 1.5 years | 00:46 |
| kanzure | is this.. normal? | 00:46 |
| fenn | because paying work keeps getting in the way | 00:46 |
| fenn | yes, unfortunately | 00:46 |
| fenn | why the fuck has hextatic taken >5 years | 00:47 |
| kanzure | depression? | 00:47 |
| kanzure | i can do software prototyping fairly quickly | 00:47 |
| kanzure | but hardware prototyping seems to take me much longer | 00:47 |
| fenn | it's that damned reality loop | 00:47 |
| genehacker | because hardware prototyping takes longer | 00:47 |
| kanzure | i don't think it necessarily has to, though | 00:47 |
| genehacker | also it's the real world | 00:47 |
| kanzure | i mean, technically, the cnc machines only take a few minutes to run | 00:47 |
| fenn | and only hours to set up | 00:48 |
| genehacker | cutting what? | 00:48 |
| kanzure | hours to setup is fine in comparison to 1.5 years | 00:48 |
| fenn | i actually have a bit of data on this | 00:48 |
| kanzure | i don't know why i am fixating on the mechmate example, but it seems releant | 00:48 |
| kanzure | *relevant | 00:48 |
| genehacker | last I heard, ultrafast aerospace CNC machines sometimes run for weeks on end cutting one part | 00:48 |
| kanzure | what are the tolerances they are doing? | 00:48 |
| fenn | 1325 1424 project mini-mendel-cad-idler-brackets | 00:48 |
| fenn | 1424 1446 net reprap-irc | 00:48 |
| fenn | 1446 1534 project mini-mendel-cad-idler-brackets | 00:48 |
| fenn | 1534 1600 project mini-mendel-cam-idler-brackets | 00:48 |
| fenn | 1600 1716 fight mach3, stupid tool-table-error, project mini-mendel-cnc-idler-brackets | 00:48 |
| fenn | 1716 1844 project mini-mendel-cnc-idler-brackets | 00:49 |
| genehacker | probably fairly high in titanium | 00:49 |
| genehacker | I know my friend runs his CNC machine over night cutting aluminum | 00:49 |
| kanzure | i honeslty don't think the cutting time is the issue, genehacker | 00:49 |
| genehacker | err not his | 00:49 |
| kanzure | if it takes all night to bake, that's fine, let it bake | 00:49 |
| genehacker | of course not | 00:49 |
| fenn | if i had had an openscad model of the part, and a makerbot, would have been < 5 minutes human attention and <25 minutes total | 00:49 |
| kanzure | i wish i could get over my aversion to stl | 00:50 |
| kanzure | wait, no i don't | 00:50 |
| genehacker | you could go back in time and force the man who created stl for his research project in one night to actually make it not suck | 00:51 |
| genehacker | you could also get in on the development of .stl2 | 00:51 |
| kanzure | why not just use solid geometry model formats | 00:51 |
| kanzure | i know that their formats are largely undocumented, but that's no excuse for avoiding the issue entirely | 00:52 |
| kanzure | undocumented in an accessible way | 00:52 |
| kanzure | er, un(documented in an accessible way) | 00:52 |
| fenn | a bit of explanation of above: 2.25hr reverse engineering, 0.5hr clicking lots with a mouse, 1.25hr debugging the toolchain, 1.5hr actually cutting parts and figuring out clamping and stuff, 15 minutes to actually cut the parts | 00:52 |
| genehacker | I don't know, because some stuff that get's stereolithographed is too complex for that | 00:52 |
| kanzure | stl is just triangles, sorry | 00:52 |
| fenn | nothing wrong with stl | 00:53 |
| fenn | it's just not what we want | 00:53 |
| fenn | even step kinda sucks for modification | 00:53 |
| kanzure | :/ | 00:53 |
| fenn | no parametric anything, no geometric primitives | 00:53 |
| fenn | can't undo a subtraction operation | 00:53 |
| * kanzure is still confused about the parametric issues re: step | 00:53 | |
| kanzure | but my questions will probably never find themselves answers | 00:53 |
| fenn | afaik it's just a boundary representation with trimmed surfaces | 00:54 |
| fenn | i could be wrong | 00:54 |
| kanzure | at this point i'd be happy with a csg format | 00:54 |
| fenn | yeah csg + fillet modifiers | 00:54 |
| fenn | openscad is not bad | 00:55 |
| fenn | i wish it had a geometry explorer like opencascade | 00:55 |
| kanzure | it's a format lock-in | 00:55 |
| genehacker | anyway kanzure you would host a methlab on chip on design files right | 00:55 |
| kanzure | tim schmidt was in here the other day saying that you could just manually read .scad files and repeat the actions in a CAD app | 00:55 |
| kanzure | but frankly that's terrible | 00:55 |
| genehacker | actually I don't mean methlab I mean microscale adderol factory | 00:56 |
| kanzure | genehacker: yes | 00:56 |
| genehacker | ok then | 00:56 |
| fenn | not really.. as long as you have an understandable format to port to, you can just link the openscad functions to whatever bindings for your format | 00:56 |
| fenn | i dont mean by hand | 00:56 |
| kanzure | sure | 00:56 |
| kanzure | but why hasn't this been done yet? | 00:56 |
| fenn | i was thinking about how to convert openscad to step the other day | 00:56 |
| fenn | there arent many people working with openscad in the first place | 00:57 |
| kanzure | opencascade's source code, sadly, has the most complete spec of STEP available | 00:57 |
| genehacker | hmmmm... we still need a special plasma reactor thing to make such complex microreactors though... | 00:57 |
| fenn | frankly i think it'd be better to use POV-RAY and figure out how to export to STL | 00:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: there's a good number of them there makerbot people | 00:57 |
| fenn | but maybe openscad has an advantage in simplicity | 00:57 |
| kanzure | the makerbot/make people are just eating openscad up like crazies | 00:57 |
| fenn | they are? | 00:57 |
| kanzure | Paola Di Maio, Britton Kerin, Jerry Isdale, Marius Kintel, Zach Smith, Bre Pettis, Aaron Shaw, Steve Talent, Giles Bathgate, Clifford Wolf, the list goes on and on | 00:58 |
| klafka | what is the makerbot vs. reprap? | 00:58 |
| fenn | makerbot is a laser cut reprap | 00:58 |
| kanzure | makerbot is a commercial product based on some modified designs of the cupcakecnc version of reprap | 00:58 |
| klafka | aah | 00:58 |
| fenn | there was some drama involved | 00:58 |
| klafka | lol why? | 00:58 |
| klafka | because they commercialified it | 00:59 |
| kanzure | no | 00:59 |
| fenn | absconding with rrrf donations | 00:59 |
| klafka | aaaaah | 00:59 |
| kanzure | wait really? | 00:59 |
| genehacker | so could you make some way to manipulate openscad files so openscad has true smart dimensions like other cad software | 00:59 |
| fenn | being generally dickheaded in decisions leading up to commercialization | 00:59 |
| genehacker | RAGE! | 00:59 |
| fenn | i.e. the whole sanguino/smt stepper driver thing | 00:59 |
| klafka | wow 1000 bucks for a reprap seems cheap | 01:00 |
| fenn | reprap project has some leadership issues | 01:00 |
| genehacker | does sebastien know about this? | 01:00 |
| fenn | klafka wanna buy one? :P | 01:00 |
| klafka | seems small though | 01:00 |
| klafka | not really | 01:00 |
| fenn | i am going to be selling REAL repraps for <$1k | 01:00 |
| klafka | i really don't have time to do maker things | 01:00 |
| klafka | what's the diff between a reprap and makerbot? | 01:00 |
| klafka | much bigger? | 01:00 |
| fenn | (not that there's any functional difference) | 01:00 |
| fenn | it's easier to hack on a reprap because you can modify any part | 01:01 |
| genehacker | fenn are they not going suck like techzonestore's ripoff reprap? | 01:01 |
| klafka | aah | 01:01 |
| fenn | omg no | 01:01 |
| klafka | grad schoo lreally kills all my time to do fun maker things | 01:01 |
| genehacker | they used the wrong chips... | 01:01 |
| fenn | i so want to delete that "electronics modifications" wiki page | 01:01 |
| klafka | i haven't even been to the hackerspace here | 01:01 |
| kanzure | i still think this might be a good start at parsing step: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/step_importer.py | 01:01 |
| kanzure | barring that, there are some generic EXPRESS parsers out there IIRC (at least one) | 01:01 |
| fenn | yeah the nist stuff | 01:02 |
| fenn | good luck figuring that out | 01:02 |
| kanzure | also here was my attempt at what a good csg library for python would feel like: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/csg.py | 01:02 |
| klafka | although i'd be interested if there were interesting machine learning problems in the maker community | 01:02 |
| fenn | i think EXPRESS is basically XML before there was such a thing | 01:02 |
| kanzure | klafka: sure! tons re: open source hardware compatibility, design, etc. | 01:02 |
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| klafka | can they be phrased in such a way i don | 01:02 |
| klafka | er | 01:02 |
| klafka | ok let me start over, can they be phrased in such a way i don't have to dig too deep into the field to find the answer | 01:03 |
| fenn | yea i dont think it'd be hard to make python bindings for openscad | 01:03 |
| klafka | like if you can give me a well defined problem maybe i could solve | 01:03 |
| klafka | or problem my advisor would be interested in | 01:03 |
| klafka | that would be super keen actually | 01:03 |
| kanzure | klafka: does your advisor have any interest in microfluidics? | 01:03 |
| kanzure | wait, who is your advisor? can you let me stlak him for a bit | 01:04 |
| klafka | not really, he works a lot in imaging, more generally we both like high tree-width/high dimensional graphical models | 01:04 |
| fenn | klafka: it's not machine learning but optimization of geometry for minimum amount of plastic for maximum rigidity | 01:04 |
| klafka | http://people.rit.edu/jcdicsa/ | 01:04 |
| neobii | kanzure: could you print out something if someone gave you a stl? | 01:04 |
| fenn | given a few interfaces and forces on them | 01:04 |
| kanzure | neobii: yes but i'd have to use someone else's machine | 01:05 |
| klafka | fenn are they optimization problems you have to solve numerous times? | 01:05 |
| klafka | like real time optimization solving | 01:05 |
| klafka | it seems like a min max problem eh? | 01:05 |
| kanzure | klafka: that sounds more like the problem domain that CAM tries to solve | 01:05 |
| neobii | what's keeping you from making a reprap machine? | 01:05 |
| fenn | i saw something with level set but i didnt really understand it | 01:05 |
| klafka | is it linear? convex? | 01:05 |
| genehacker | oh man this is hilarious, everyone in the media's flipping out over Craig Venter's let's synthesize a genome that's found in nature, slap some watermarks on it, and put it in an organism and boot it up | 01:07 |
| klafka | i know genehacker | 01:07 |
| klafka | it's a bit ridiculous | 01:07 |
| klafka | they did a bit more than that though didn't they? | 01:07 |
| neobii | hehe I read that article and that's how I ended up here | 01:07 |
| kanzure | klafka: yeah they had some neat techniques | 01:07 |
| genehacker | nope | 01:07 |
| klafka | didn't they cut a bunch of extraneous genes out of it? | 01:07 |
| kanzure | klafka: | 01:07 |
| kanzure | klafka: - one-step, isothermal assembly of DNA in vitro: | 01:07 |
| kanzure | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19363495?dopt=Citation | 01:07 |
| genehacker | nope | 01:07 |
| klafka | their point was to make the minimum necessary genome for life | 01:07 |
| kanzure | - whole assembly of oligo-tiles into genes in yeast spheroplasts: | 01:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19745056?dopt=Citation | 01:08 |
| genehacker | only one on accident | 01:08 |
| klafka | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoplasma_laboratorium | 01:08 |
| genehacker | cool stuff though | 01:08 |
| genehacker | nope | 01:08 |
| kanzure | no this wasn't the minimal genome project | 01:08 |
| klafka | oh it's not htat guy | 01:08 |
| klafka | wow that's even less impressive | 01:08 |
| genehacker | they haven't booted up Mycoplasma laboratorium | 01:08 |
| genehacker | it is that guy | 01:08 |
| genehacker | if you mean venter | 01:08 |
| klafka | no i mean it's not mycoplasma laboratorium | 01:08 |
| klafka | i know it's venter | 01:08 |
| klafka | venter likes to plaster his name on everything | 01:08 |
| genehacker | yup even in the genomes of bacteria | 01:09 |
| kanzure | you would too if the media portrayed you as some sort of demigod of synthetic biology | 01:09 |
| genehacker | well apparently I have to go to bed, because I have to get on a "normal" sleep schedule | 01:09 |
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| kanzure | for some reason drew endy always seemed to have the same "hype sense" that i get from ycombinator crowds :/ | 01:10 |
| zool | hi | 01:10 |
| kanzure | have you guys noticed how drew hasn't had as much media attention? | 01:10 |
| kanzure | i think his lab was sent to stanford because of some ah, issues | 01:10 |
| klafka | ycombinator message boards are a pit kind of | 01:10 |
| kanzure | http://allyourstartuparebelongto.us/ | 01:10 |
| genehacker | PLEASE RESUME NORMAL CONVERSATION | 01:10 |
| klafka | lol | 01:10 |
| klafka | fenn i'm still interested in this thing " <fenn> klafka: it's not machine learning but optimization of geometry for minimum amount of plastic for maximum rigidity " got any more info on it? | 01:11 |
| neobii | were you part of the reprap machine display at maker fair last year? | 01:12 |
| fenn | yes i'm searching for the page | 01:12 |
| klafka | because one thing we're thinking of working on is a way to work on a project that is a way of optimizing optimization problems so that they are more effeective for stuff like real time optimizations | 01:12 |
| klafka | ok | 01:12 |
| kanzure | yo dawg i heard you like optimization so i'm optimizing your optimization optimization algorithm so you can optimize while you optimize your optimized optimizations | 01:12 |
| fenn | klafka google for calculix optimization | 01:13 |
| klafka | yo dawg i heard you liked optimization so i'm optimizing your optimization so you can optimize while you optimize | 01:13 |
| fenn | and look at http://www.onlinefeasolver.com/load_path.php | 01:13 |
| fenn | i dont remember the level set paper but it yielded 3d meshes looking sort of like those diagrams | 01:13 |
| klafka | oh so it's finite element analysis | 01:14 |
| genehacker | I'll post some research related to this | 01:14 |
| klafka | there are all these posters on this shit in the applied science and technology peoples stuff | 01:14 |
| genehacker | there's a researcher here doing exactly that fenn | 01:14 |
| fenn | ok well add "how to actually make it" on top of that | 01:15 |
| klafka | so you want the optimal geometric structure that minimizes i guess volume while maximizing rigidty | 01:16 |
| genehacker | ROBUST DESIGN OF CELLULAR MATERIALS WITH | 01:16 |
| genehacker | TOPOLOGICAL AND DIMENSIONAL IMPERFECTIONS | 01:16 |
| fenn | yep and also satisfy various other constraints | 01:16 |
| genehacker | google scholar that | 01:16 |
| klafka | hmm and you give what as inputs? the dimensions you want it to be? and rigidity in a given dimension/dimensions? | 01:16 |
| fenn | oh seepersad finally decided to do something worthwhile? | 01:17 |
| genehacker | you know seepersad? | 01:17 |
| fenn | the name got stuck in my head at one point so i investigated | 01:17 |
| fenn | it's right down the hall from ADL | 01:18 |
| kanzure | "due diligence" | 01:18 |
| kanzure | i need to find some chinese solidworks users to hire and abuse | 01:18 |
| genehacker | far better idea than openscad people | 01:18 |
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| kanzure | wtf is up with his part message anyway | 01:19 |
| fenn | i dont think the cellular materials thing is what i'm talking about | 01:19 |
| kanzure | i am also interested in somehow fixing the temporal discrepancy in hardware construction that i've been observing.. fixing it seems, uh, valuable | 01:20 |
| fenn | i mean stuff like http://www.nextnature.net/2007/10/bone-chair/ | 01:20 |
| klafka | i think if you could give me the optimization problem a bit more abstractly as opposed to learn about dimensional analysis, rigidity, etc... then it would be workable, or is the problem in developing the optimization problem itself? | 01:21 |
| fenn | more abstractly? that's the first time i've heard that excuse | 01:21 |
| klafka | really? talk with more mathematicians | 01:22 |
| klafka | :P | 01:22 |
| fenn | i have a set of interfaces, i want to connect them together without wasting material | 01:22 |
| fenn | automatically generate plausible geometry that doesn't suck | 01:22 |
| kanzure | i've been working with a mathematician recently on some, uh, web development.. and he wants to do all these latex whitepapers on tag clouds before implementing a simple weighted tag cloud | 01:22 |
| fenn | i dont really know how to make this more abstract | 01:22 |
| * kanzure doesn't get it | 01:22 | |
| klafka | ok, do you have the actual physics equations you would need to optimize for that though fenn? | 01:23 |
| klafka | like ok let's take a chair | 01:23 |
| fenn | "implement a robust graph structure with edge weights proportional to their expected usage" | 01:23 |
| klafka | you need to have maximum rigidity in certain vdirections | 01:23 |
| kanzure | fenn: be careful, you might end up locked into thinking like that | 01:23 |
| fenn | INTEGRATE | 01:24 |
| kanzure | night | 01:24 |
| fenn | klafka: there's beam bending equations, it's much simpler to use finite element method with just tension and compression though | 01:25 |
| klafka | there is probably some newtonian formula for calculating rigidity eh? so you need to input in what directions you need the rigidity to go, the dimensions of the interfaces, how much rigidity you need, and the equations for rigidity with the constants for the material and stuff | 01:25 |
| klafka | eh | 01:25 |
| klafka | but it seems like this isn't really all that hard of an optimization problem, it seems it's more of a problem of designing the optimization problems | 01:26 |
| fenn | you can represent a beam with a mesh of triangles and get the same result | 01:26 |
| klafka | interesting | 01:26 |
| fenn | yeah i mean everything is simple when you understand it | 01:26 |
| fenn | but it always takes longer than you think | 01:26 |
| fenn | it's not really a hard problem | 01:26 |
| fenn | just something that comes up all the time that nobody seems to give a shit about for some reason | 01:26 |
| fenn | "oh this problem isnt hard enough, fuck it" | 01:27 |
| fenn | HUH? | 01:27 |
| fenn | do you see the reason i want this procedure in the first place? | 01:27 |
| klafka | well it sort of straddles the line where it's important to the domain but not interesting to the person who wants to develop new techniques to solve problems | 01:27 |
| klafka | i do see | 01:27 |
| fenn | so then i can simply vary the interface locations and everything else magically falls into place | 01:28 |
| klafka | yep | 01:28 |
| klafka | do you think you can just modify an existing FEA system to do this? | 01:28 |
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| fenn | FEA just evaluates the "cost function" (if i'm using the term right) | 01:28 |
| fenn | actually figuring out what to do next is outside of the scope of FEA | 01:29 |
| klafka | so you want to minimize the cost function right? | 01:29 |
| fenn | yep | 01:29 |
| fenn | cost = flex + amount of material used + complexity | 01:29 |
| klafka | ok so now we're getting somewhere, so we have a cost-space, i'm going to guess this is an incredibly non-convex space huh? | 01:30 |
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| fenn | hmm.. for just mechanical parts, no, it's rather straightforward | 01:30 |
| fenn | if we start adding other functions to the geometry then it gets more interesting | 01:31 |
| klafka | fenn do you know what i mean by non-convex? | 01:31 |
| fenn | i think so.. you can vary parameters continuously in a convex space | 01:31 |
| fenn | this was something i was supposed to read about yesterday and didnt have time | 01:31 |
| klafka | no, a convex space, is well in 2d it's one that curves upwards basically and is continuous too yes | 01:32 |
| klafka | basically the thing abotu convex spaces are they are the things we are really good at optimizing because findinga local optima implies you've found a global optima | 01:33 |
| fenn | convex just means one global minimum or maximum? | 01:33 |
| klafka | that's strictly convex | 01:33 |
| klafka | a convex space is that any local minima is a global minima | 01:33 |
| fenn | that's what i just said | 01:34 |
| klafka | no, there is a difference between one local minima and multiple local minima | 01:34 |
| fenn | if there's only one local minimum then it's the global minimum, no? | 01:34 |
| klafka | you can have multiple solutions with a convex function, you can have only one solution with a strictly convex | 01:34 |
| fenn | yes so a trough vs a bowl | 01:35 |
| klafka | right | 01:35 |
| fenn | ok so why do i care? | 01:35 |
| klafka | oh you don't particularly ,i was just making the comment that it was probably a really non-convex space, because it seems like you're probably solving lots of weird compled PDEs numerically | 01:36 |
| klafka | it just requires different tools to solve the problem | 01:37 |
| fenn | so simulated annealing instead of gradient descent | 01:37 |
| klafka | yeah maybe, hopefully something better than that | 01:37 |
| fenn | sometimes i wonder why people don't just start out with "the big guns" | 01:38 |
| klafka | what are the big guns? simulated annealing? Because it's really really slow | 01:38 |
| fenn | meta meta optimizer optimizer | 01:38 |
| klafka | and no guarantee on finding a good solution | 01:38 |
| fenn | but really really slow doesn't fucking matter if you're running lots of different experiments at low resolution | 01:38 |
| fenn | i see people running extremely detailed simulations for days at a time to get the answer that they set up the simulation wrong | 01:39 |
| klafka | hahaha | 01:39 |
| klafka | ugh i've done that so much :( | 01:39 |
| klafka | w/ Gradient descent nonetheless | 01:39 |
| fenn | most of this stuff should be done at such a low resolutoin you can interact with it in real time | 01:39 |
| klafka | well your problem yeah perhaps | 01:40 |
| fenn | any problem | 01:40 |
| fenn | no data set is this complex | 01:40 |
| klafka | hahaha | 01:40 |
| klafka | i disagree | 01:40 |
| fenn | if you think you need to analyze all 9 million data points at once you're doing it wrong | 01:40 |
| fenn | the universe behaves in a rational predictable manner (except for where it doesnt) | 01:41 |
| klafka | i dont' think you can accurately say that without context, it depends on the scope of the problem you're trying to solve | 01:41 |
| klafka | and the nature of the problem itself | 01:41 |
| fenn | i just want the computer to work out the answer on its own | 01:42 |
| klafka | for instance take image classification at a certain level that involves classifying individual pixels, a 100x100 image (pretty low res) has 100,000 classifications that needs to be done | 01:42 |
| fenn | without me holding its hand every step of the way | 01:42 |
| fenn | "does gradient descent converge? no? try the next magic trick" | 01:42 |
| klafka | well the thing is, does gradient descent not converge because of a theoretical or an implementation reason | 01:42 |
| fenn | implementation meaning the optimization parameters? | 01:43 |
| fenn | like step size, convergence threshold | 01:43 |
| klafka | yeah, like step size | 01:43 |
| klafka | mainly | 01:43 |
| fenn | well, that seems fairly easy for a computer to fiddle | 01:43 |
| fenn | (two for loops) | 01:43 |
| fenn | a couple timeouts | 01:44 |
| klafka | yeah but what if doing one run of GD takes one day | 01:44 |
| fenn | don't do it that way | 01:44 |
| fenn | wtf | 01:44 |
| fenn | why would it take a day? | 01:44 |
| fenn | "yer doin it wrong" | 01:44 |
| klafka | oftentimes because you have to approximate parts of the gradient | 01:45 |
| klafka | usually via MCMC | 01:45 |
| fenn | can i have an example problem where you'd use MCMC? | 01:45 |
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| klafka | sure, you want to learn a markov random field via gradient descent for whatever reason (imaging, bionetwork inference, etc...) but the gradient requires you to calculate the derivative of the partition function, now the partition function is the logsumexp of the function over the entire space, the derivative is not calculable, but you can estimate it by taking an average of the sample | 01:48 |
| fenn | an average of the sample... (cut off) | 01:49 |
| fenn | or perhaps i'm just not understanding | 01:50 |
| fenn | it's probably time for bed | 01:50 |
| klafka | yeah most likely | 01:50 |
| klafka | i'm trying to extrapolate from my specific instance and make it general, all we had to actually do is take the difference of the mean of the training data vs. the mean of the samples | 01:51 |
| klafka | convergence happened when that difference became 0 | 01:52 |
| fenn | maybe you forgot to add a constant | 01:53 |
| klafka | sorry? | 01:54 |
| fenn | oh, another geometry thing that's probably more up your alley: reverse engineering mesh (STL) files to CSG | 01:59 |
| fenn | and various "3D scanning" | 02:00 |
| klafka | hmm | 02:00 |
| klafka | the STL I know is standard template library | 02:00 |
| klafka | they are various like cad formats? | 02:01 |
| klafka | ah i see | 02:01 |
| klafka | hmm that's an interesting problem | 02:02 |
| fenn | stl stands for 'stereolithography format' which basically means 'bag of triangles' | 02:04 |
| * fenn sleeps | 02:05 | |
| * fenn dreams of spam and bacn | 02:05 | |
| fenn | if you can make a program to sort diybio by interest to me, i'd pay you a million dollars | 02:06 |
| klafka | lol | 02:07 |
| klafka | i tell you open design sequencer that can be largely made via a reprap | 02:07 |
| klafka | that'd be fucking useful | 02:07 |
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| fenn | ok first things first, gotta get the reprap working | 02:08 |
| klafka | but really about the other thing w/ the interfaces, has anyone tried doing something like simulated annealing or an evolutionary algorithm to do that? | 02:09 |
| klafka | or greedy hill climbing perhaps | 02:09 |
| klafka | that'd be a lot faster | 02:10 |
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| thesnark | its too bad we can't all have a huge party about the cell being created | 08:19 |
| thesnark | I mean, that's like | 08:19 |
| thesnark | today is a great day | 08:19 |
| kanzure | thesnark: it's not as important as the media is making it out to be | 08:21 |
| thesnark | o rly | 08:23 |
| thesnark | I mean | 08:23 |
| thesnark | I can sort out through most of the fluff but I guess it seemed like a big milestone to me since I haven't been following it | 08:23 |
| Utopiah | about Craig Venture? | 08:24 |
| thesnark | yeah | 08:24 |
| Utopiah | to me that's pretty much 10 years he's repeating the same thing so maybe Im not following enough to be in awe | 08:28 |
| thesnark | that he made a living cell? | 08:30 |
| thesnark | he has said it before? | 08:30 |
| Utopiah | he made a living cell from scratch? guess I need to re-read the articles | 08:30 |
| thesnark | yeah | 08:31 |
| thesnark | that is his claim | 08:31 |
| Utopiah | http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100520/full/news.2010.253.html | 08:34 |
| Utopiah | "'reboot' a cell from a different species of bacterium" + "The custom-built genome is a near-exact replica of its natural counterpart" + etc so I think "from scratch" is rather exagerated anyway | 08:36 |
| kanzure | i thought it was a chromosome assembly technique | 08:37 |
| kanzure | and then they inserted the chromosome into the cell | 08:37 |
| Utopiah | thesnark: so Im not saying it's not great and I could do the same but to me it sounds like Stephen Wolfram saying (again) that he nearly invented copmutation... it's great marketing though | 08:38 |
| Utopiah | my related page btw http://fabien.benetou.fr/ReadingNotes/Protocells | 08:40 |
| Utopiah | interview for Science he made yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47rUrlzdK3k | 08:46 |
| * kanzure wonders if there's a machine shop in the middle of nyc | 08:55 | |
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| thesnark | haha Utopiah I so agree with you about Wolfram, he's so full of himself :) | 09:22 |
| Utopiah | his last blog post about 1 year W|A made me think about that | 09:23 |
| thesnark | kanzure I think you can probably count on it | 09:23 |
| thesnark | http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100520/full/news.2010.253.html | 09:24 |
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| thesnark | oops | 09:24 |
| thesnark | sry | 09:24 |
| thesnark | http://gizmodo.com/5543774/immaculate-creation-birth-of-the-first-synthetic-cell I think this is a good summary for the general public | 09:29 |
| thesnark | ok I'm done | 09:29 |
| * Utopiah still can't believe that in 2010 scientific related article have religion connoted term in their title, seriously what the fuck. | 09:31 | |
| thesnark | john q public is still relatively...what's the word | 09:32 |
| thesnark | stupid is too harsh | 09:32 |
| thesnark | Utopiah we just have to work with things as they are I suppose | 09:33 |
| Utopiah | Ill let the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster decide that. | 09:34 |
| thesnark | :) | 09:38 |
| kanzure | http://diybio.labitat.dk/index.php/Project_suggestions | 09:40 |
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| kanzure | http://justrade.co.uk/?tag=join-the-diybio "Dale has a piece for his O'Reilly Radar column on what he's dubbed "make-offs," low-budget knock-offs of scientific and industrial technology, ..." | 09:43 |
| kanzure | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/05/make-offs_diy_indie_innovations.html | 09:44 |
| kanzure | oh please. pearl biotech. :/ | 09:45 |
| kanzure | "It is a version of what China has been doing to America, benefiting from the R&D that goes into refining the specifications, developing prototypes and building a finished product. | 09:45 |
| kanzure | Only now, with new digital fabrication techniques and open source hardware and software, individuals and small companies are in a position to compete globally with a distinctly DIY approach to innovation. | 09:45 |
| kanzure | It's a new independent source of creative work, similar to what indie films are to Hollywood films developed in-house. It's open, collaborative and done on the cheap." | 09:45 |
| kanzure | "Tito Jankowski is one of the organizers of the DIYbio community" whaaat | 09:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.biocurious.org/index.php?title=Founding_Members | 09:47 |
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| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/biocurious | 09:48 |
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| thesnark | kanzure great, they equate DIYbio with indie films | 11:08 |
| thesnark | not sure if that's a flattering comparison | 11:08 |
| neobii | argh going to miss maker faire this year | 11:57 |
| neobii | wasn't that cool last year though | 11:57 |
| neobii | lots of kids and craft people | 11:58 |
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| neobii_ | ls | 12:01 |
| neobii_ | win 1 | 12:01 |
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| neobii | there we go | 12:05 |
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| Utopiah | http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/news-as-cyberpunk/one-mans-quest-to-outfit-diabetics-with-robotic-pancreases/ | 13:28 |
| kanzure | that easily sounds like a slasher | 13:29 |
| kanzure | diabetics, you better watch out or the next thing you know your pancreas will be laying beside you on a surgery table | 13:30 |
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| jrayhawk | Utopiah: Re: synthetic cell: it's one small step for the field of science, but it's monumental in the field of philosophy. The journalist emphasized the more significant element. | 14:23 |
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| Utopiah | I think Venter likes to define tippings points before philosophers and journalists do so in order to leverage more press coverage. Once again "synthetic biology" is not really new and they are not the only team working on it; cf link posted earlier. | 14:26 |
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| jrayhawk | True dat. | 14:27 |
| jrayhawk | He had remarkable discipline and competence in that antagonistic interview posted earlier. He clearly knows what he's doing in the PR department. | 14:31 |
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| QuantumG | he's doing cool science and funding it with buzz.. I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing :) | 17:08 |
| QuantumG | "We're not playing." - Craig Venter on accusations that he's playing God. | 17:22 |
| jrayhawk | NICE | 17:24 |
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| QuantumG | OMG, google homepage graphic ftw | 17:25 |
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| kanzure | what do you do when someone reveals to you that they sold their family-owned company for 9 digits? | 19:52 |
| kanzure | like, what do you say | 19:58 |
| fenn | grumble mumble.. lost my laptop charger at google | 20:18 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: "nice exit strategy" I guess | 20:20 |
| kanzure | so i'm making a startup about excitement | 20:20 |
| kanzure | it's a pyramid scheme of excitement | 20:20 |
| kanzure | where i get ten people excited, who must pass on this pitch | 20:20 |
| kanzure | we have no exit strategy yet | 20:20 |
| fenn | should i try to hack together a charger and possibly blow up my laptop? | 20:20 |
| kanzure | but i'm really exicted | 20:20 |
| kanzure | *excited | 20:20 |
| kanzure | damn it. | 20:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: probably not, no | 20:20 |
| kanzure | (10:22:46 PM) Spicko Vina: Have you ever read Transmetropolitan? | 20:21 |
| kanzure | but about any of you guys | 20:21 |
| kanzure | *what | 20:21 |
| fenn | no | 20:21 |
| QuantumG | :) | 20:21 |
| kanzure | (10:29:34 PM) Spicko Vina: are you familiar with another comic from ellis, doktor sleeples? | 20:27 |
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| kanzure | hi wilywonka :) | 20:40 |
| kanzure | lawl @ diybio troll: | 20:40 |
| kanzure | 20:49 < noob_> Is there a gene you can put in a bacteria to make it produce gold or some other precious metal? | 20:40 |
| wilywonka | have you guys seen http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/church_venter09/church_venter09_index.html | 20:40 |
| * kanzure likes edge.org a lot | 20:41 | |
| wilywonka | takes quite awhile to watch but very good | 20:41 |
| kanzure | i usually just read the articles instead of watching | 20:41 |
| wilywonka | i ffmpeg'd it and watched it streamed to my xbox360 | 20:41 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: how was the smart grid meeting? | 20:47 |
| kanzure | the guy got into a car accident today and couldn't make it to the meeting | 21:29 |
| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 21:30 |
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| kanzure | hello Tuna | 22:01 |
| JayDugger | Fenn: No. Buy a charger. | 22:13 |
| JayDugger | Kanzure: Yes, I like Ellis, but his endings all stink. Supergod's quite good. Planetary remains his best work to date. Doktor Sleepless, less so. | 22:14 |
| JayDugger | Of H+ interest, his comics Orbiter, Supergod, Global Frequency, Mek, and Iron Man: Extremis all rank high. | 22:16 |
| JayDugger | (I'm forgetting one, at least, but--oh right. Your neighbor's blog reminds me: Ministry of Space.) | 22:16 |
| JayDugger | http://strategicphilosophy.blogspot.com/2009/05/comics-of-transhumanist-interest.html | 22:17 |
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| JayDugger | Sigh. Scared away by off-topic talk, I suppose. | 22:17 |
| JayDugger | I toss a quarter in the off-topic jar as penalty. | 22:18 |
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