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| phryk | Mhhh | 04:41 |
|---|---|---|
| phryk | What is transhumanisms position about androids? | 04:42 |
| faceface | cluckj: yes there is a genetic component to autism, which is why I mentioned it | 05:09 |
| faceface | kanzure: who is russell hanson? | 05:10 |
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| kanzure | faceface: wait, i thought you asked me for his email address? | 06:49 |
| kanzure | heh bre pettis should hold a "make off" competition | 06:55 |
| kanzure | openpcr.org has raised $6.8k | 07:30 |
| uniqanomaly_ | kickstarter ftw! | 07:31 |
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| kanzure | well, i don't think they have built anything yet | 07:32 |
| kanzure | so it's kind of like, "woo money" | 07:33 |
| kanzure | not so much ftw | 07:33 |
| kanzure | they haven't even designed it yet | 07:33 |
| uniqanomaly_ | well, i was talking just about idea of kickstarter :P | 07:36 |
| uniqanomaly_ | we'll see about outcomes | 07:37 |
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| kanzure | andrew talking on synthetic biology at singularityu.org | 07:41 |
| kanzure | hm | 07:41 |
| kanzure | where did the paste go | 07:42 |
| kanzure | http://youtube.com/watch?v=niQ0kkgPxJk | 07:42 |
| uniqanomaly_ | http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v18n1/v18n1-MAPS_24.pdf | 07:47 |
| uniqanomaly_ | "Use of LSD-25 for Computer Programming" | 07:48 |
| uniqanomaly_ | considering that, illegal drugs are just pathetic | 07:48 |
| uniqanomaly_ | considering scientific/technological progress | 07:49 |
| kanzure | someone needs to combine http://www.youtube.com/user/singularityu#p/u/2/15sh05wrQ6Y with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQq_XmhBTgg | 07:50 |
| kanzure | heh a youtube video combiner would be pretty neat in general actually | 07:52 |
| kanzure | or just one for "combining a given youtube video with timothy leary's 'how to operate your brain' video" | 07:52 |
| uniqanomaly_ | i guess Timothy Leary totally overdosed lsd, much more than once | 07:54 |
| uniqanomaly_ | ;) | 07:54 |
| kanzure | i was just making fun of ray's video :) | 07:55 |
| kanzure | and his monotonous tone | 07:55 |
| uniqanomaly_ | oh, ok:) | 07:55 |
| uniqanomaly_ | i was thinking rather about BCI + 'using your brain' cocktail ;) | 07:55 |
| uniqanomaly_ | totally agree, Kurzweil's not a showman ;) | 07:56 |
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| Utopiah | uniqanomaly_: have you checked http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?tid=10550&ttype=2 ? | 08:03 |
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| uniqanomaly_ | Utopiah, yeah, i've heard about it | 08:05 |
| Utopiah | but it's 5 years old now | 08:06 |
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| Utopiah | http://bio-livros.blogspot.com/ | 10:23 |
| kanzure | can anyone figure out where the constructor for Model on line 251 of OpenCASCADE6.3.0/ros/src/XSControl/XSControl_WorkSession.cxx is defined? | 10:32 |
| phryk | kanzure: Shouldn't a quick grep with -d recurse help? | 10:38 |
| kanzure | it's a few hundred megabytes of source | 10:39 |
| Utopiah | grep with -d recurse on just *.hh files? (or whatever their format) | 10:40 |
| kanzure | // gka TRJ9 for writing SDR for solid | 10:41 |
| kanzure | wth kinda comment is that :/ | 10:41 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: can you read french-written C? | 10:41 |
| kanzure | //Transfert non protege (ainsi, dbx a la main en cas de plantage par Raise) | 10:42 |
| kanzure | although it's not really saying much | 10:42 |
| timschmidt | kanzure: why are you spelunking in OpenCASCADE? | 10:42 |
| timschmidt | it's non-free | 10:42 |
| kanzure | i know :) | 10:43 |
| kanzure | i was curious about how they are doing their read/write operations | 10:43 |
| kanzure | it's ridiculously complicated | 10:43 |
| timschmidt | ah | 10:43 |
| Utopiah | ~ //Tranfer non protected (therefore, dbx done by hand if it crashes by Raise) | 10:43 |
| kanzure | hrm | 10:43 |
| kanzure | down the rabbithole: http://designfiles.org/lab/opencascade/step_export.notes.txt | 10:46 |
| kanzure | timschmidt: ^ | 10:46 |
| timschmidt | ah | 10:48 |
| kanzure | i'm up to IFSelect_ReturnStatus theReturnStat = TransferFinder in XSControl_Controller.cxx | 10:50 |
| kanzure | it looks like they try to do this mapping from their internal representation of the model to whatever the target format is | 10:51 |
| kanzure | and that's what the Transfer_Finder and Transfer_FinderProcess stuff is | 10:51 |
| kanzure | but when i go down that rabbit hole, it never seems to lead to RWStepShape or STEP_Controller or anything like that (where the actual STEP definition is) | 10:51 |
| kanzure | (like for individual vertices and other primitives) | 10:52 |
| uniqanomaly_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc :) | 10:53 |
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| kanzure | // Un Modele d`Interface est un ensemble ferme d`Entites d`interface : chacune | 11:00 |
| kanzure | // est dans un seul modele a la fois; elle y a un numero (Number) qui permet de | 11:01 |
| kanzure | // verifier qu`une entite est bien dans un seul modele, de definir des Map tres | 11:01 |
| kanzure | // performantes, de fournir un identifieur numerique | 11:01 |
| kanzure | // Il est a meme d`etre utilise dans des traitements de Graphe | 11:01 |
| * kanzure wonders how Matra Datavision hired people.. maybe by roulette? | 11:01 | |
| uniqanomaly_ | perhaps it's just definition for needs of this particular project, little different than broadly known terms? | 11:11 |
| uniqanomaly_ | just a thought | 11:12 |
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| kanzure | what was the difference between TopoDS and TopoDS_Shape? blah | 11:50 |
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| kanzure | woo down the rabbit hole | 12:05 |
| kanzure | i think this is the goods: STEPControl/STEPControl_ActorWrite.cxx | 12:05 |
| kanzure | in particular STEPControl_ActorWrite::TransferShape | 12:10 |
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| kanzure | o wait, RWStepAP214/RWStepAP214_ReadWriteModule.cxx looks much more interesting (especially when you go through the file searching for instances of something like VertexLoop) | 12:22 |
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| kanzure | pcb design tutorial http://alternatezone.com/electronics/pcbdesign.htm | 12:24 |
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| kanzure | looks like AHS is moving out of AHS | 13:05 |
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| kanzure | re: our questions about STEP and parametric constraints | 13:54 |
| kanzure | http://lists.steptools.com/pipermail/st-users/2001/000011.html | 13:54 |
| kanzure | wtf | 14:10 |
| kanzure | http://www.steptools.com/impforum/info.htm | 14:10 |
| kanzure | i wonder who spent all that time making those .gif images for the different APs | 14:10 |
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| uniqanomaly__ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9SNSPUWnTs LOL | 14:37 |
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| pmetzger | Not much traffic this evening I see. | 15:38 |
| kanzure | ooh, pyExpress | 15:46 |
| pmetzger | pyExpress? | 15:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.mail-archive.com/pythonocc-users@gna.org/msg00975.html | 15:56 |
| kanzure | oh, that looks like a conversation i started | 15:56 |
| kanzure | silly me | 15:56 |
| kanzure | nevermind.. | 15:56 |
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| pmetzger | what is EXPRESS? | 15:58 |
| pmetzger | hrm. okay, why do you need a data modeling language? | 16:00 |
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| kanzure | pmetzger: i'm writing a python CSG/solid geometry modeling API | 16:14 |
| kanzure | i'm thinking of using NIST's SCL library to generate some C++, and then wrap that up with swig | 16:14 |
| pmetzger | K.I.S.S. in my opinion | 16:14 |
| kanzure | do you use .step files? | 16:15 |
| pmetzger | have no idea what .step is. :) | 16:15 |
| kanzure | do you know what solid geometry modeling is | 16:15 |
| pmetzger | most certainly. used it for feeding inputs into ray tracers in the old days. | 16:15 |
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| kanzure | ../../../src/clstepcore/sdai.h:358:1: error: pasting "::" and "Application_instance" does not give a valid preprocessing token | 16:48 |
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| JayDugger | Good evening, everyone. | 17:03 |
| * kanzure is trying to fix some old school C | 17:04 | |
| kanzure | the line: extern SCLP23(Application_instance) NilSTEPentity; | 17:04 |
| kanzure | the error: error: pasting "::" and "Application_instance" does not give a valid preprocessing token | 17:04 |
| uniqanomaly__ | http://www.hurr-durr.com/ yay | 17:06 |
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| pmetzger | :: is not a C token. | 17:12 |
| pmetzger | but anyway, if you do cc -E you can look at preprocessor output. | 17:13 |
| pmetzger | (I think it is -E, it has been a while.) | 17:13 |
| pmetzger | yes, -E | 17:13 |
| kanzure | hrm i need to go digging through the make file | 17:14 |
| kanzure | actually, this is through the configure file | 17:15 |
| kanzure | for some reason they are compiling stuff in th configure script? | 17:15 |
| kanzure | s/th/the/ | 17:15 |
| pmetzger | configure always compiles stuff. | 17:15 |
| pmetzger | to find out what features the OS supports. | 17:15 |
| pmetzger | test programs of various kinds. | 17:15 |
| kanzure | yeah but it's compiling project-specific files | 17:15 |
| pmetzger | that's more unusual. | 17:15 |
| kanzure | http://www.mel.nist.gov/msid/scl/SCL.htm | 17:15 |
| kanzure | download: http://www.mel.nist.gov/msid/scl/scl3-2.tar.Z | 17:16 |
| pmetzger | oh, my. buzzword overload! | 17:16 |
| kanzure | comparatively, this is way better than steptools.com | 17:16 |
| kanzure | in terms of buzzword overload | 17:17 |
| pmetzger | The only thing that gave me hope was seeing Don Libes' name mentioned halfway down. | 17:17 |
| kanzure | you know the name? | 17:17 |
| JayDugger | Heh...the laity of the cult of the amateur now loots government resources? ;P | 17:17 |
| pmetzger | but it was only mentioned as the author of one small thing | 17:17 |
| kanzure | nah he also did development on the project overall | 17:18 |
| pmetzger | Don was quite famous in certain circles. | 17:18 |
| kanzure | fenn apparently knows josh lubell (another one of the developers) | 17:18 |
| kanzure | or doesn't know him, but hears of him a lot | 17:18 |
| pmetzger | don created Expect. | 17:18 |
| kanzure | yeah, the names on this project seem to be like that.. | 17:18 |
| kanzure | a few emc2 developers too | 17:18 |
| JayDugger | Oh? | 17:18 |
| pmetzger | Expect is a tool of great power. | 17:18 |
| kanzure | oh, the "expect this input" tool | 17:18 |
| kanzure | i've used it :) | 17:18 |
| JayDugger | Yes, we used that at a former employer. | 17:19 |
| JayDugger | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Libes | 17:19 |
| pmetzger | Expect scripts ran half the routers on the net for a while. | 17:19 |
| kanzure | CFLAGS=-E make default | 17:23 |
| kanzure | well that didn't work. hrm | 17:23 |
| kanzure | aha, not as one of the CFLAGS | 17:24 |
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| kanzure | YACC: command not found | 17:25 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure i have yacc installed :/ | 17:25 |
| kanzure | but why would it be trying to call it in ALL CAPS | 17:26 |
| kanzure | oh they want it as an environmental variable? wth kinda config script is this | 17:26 |
| pmetzger | No. | 17:32 |
| pmetzger | YACC is a variable to Make. | 17:32 |
| pmetzger | and you don't want to run CFLAGS=-E in the makefile, that would clearly fail. | 17:32 |
| pmetzger | what are you trying to do exactly? | 17:33 |
| pmetzger | well, YACC is *probably* a make var in this context, but... | 17:33 |
| ybit | kanzure: what is this 'taper' you mentioned as an insufficient hardware license in your talk? | 17:34 |
| ybit | i'm going to be giving a talk on the rise of citizen science @ a TEDx that i'm organizing and gave my aunt a preview this morning. her concern was licensing of some of this stuff, so i figure it makes sense to hit on licensing in the talk | 17:36 |
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| pmetzger | bb tomorrow | 17:40 |
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| kanzure | ybit: TAPR | 17:44 |
| ybit | http://www.tapr.org/ohl.html | 17:45 |
| ybit | i've largely ignored most talks on patents, but it is a relative concern for others it seems | 17:47 |
| QuantumG | http://quantumg.blogspot.com/2010/06/artificial-general-intelligence.html | 17:55 |
| parolang | Somehow I have a harder time taking people seriously when their avatar has a Matrix Code backdrop :) | 18:03 |
| QuantumG | we're stuck with the iconology of our time | 18:05 |
| parolang | Hah, okay :) | 18:06 |
| JayDugger | No. We've all of history too. Picking a set of icons communicates, just as the icons themselves signify certain things. | 18:06 |
| JayDugger | Think of American evangelical Christians, who use the fish logo. Recycled from early Christians. | 18:07 |
| JayDugger | You can pick anything you like. Picking the code drizzle from recent popular culture means something different from picking Monet's "Water Lilies." | 18:08 |
| parolang | Well, The Matrix's "digital rain" was actually a neat idea; it was meant to represent the combination of nature with technology. | 18:10 |
| parolang | You see this theme all the time in The Matrix trilogy. | 18:10 |
| parolang | But I don't think everyone who splashes the matrix code gets this. | 18:12 |
| JayDugger | A false signified? | 18:12 |
| parolang | Not sure, I suck as semiology :) | 18:12 |
| parolang | *at | 18:13 |
| JayDugger | No worries. It and semantics both matter where I work--not that most of my co-workers realize it. :) | 18:13 |
| parolang | The odd thing, from a transhumanist perspective, is that science-fiction is generally hostile to h+--*especially* The Matrix movies. | 18:14 |
| parolang | What do you do? | 18:14 |
| JayDugger | I work on flight simulators: machines that simulate aircraft for the sake of training flight crew to handle emergencies. | 18:15 |
| QuantumG | futuristic sci-fi is necessarily wrong | 18:15 |
| parolang | Sci-fi is never meant to be prophecy. | 18:15 |
| parolang | JayDugger: Yep...semioitics :) | 18:15 |
| JayDugger | Exception: Lem, S. "One Human Minute." That borders on satire, however. | 18:16 |
| parolang | I've read and am impressed with C.S. Peirce. Haven't read much Saussure(sp). | 18:16 |
| QuantumG | one of the reasons why I'd love to see more alternate history sci-fi.. it's less likely to appear outdated after only a few years | 18:16 |
| QuantumG | for example, I'd love to see a sci-fi series about what colonizing the oceans would be like if we had started in the 70s. Surface, not underwater.. screw you Seaquest. | 18:17 |
| parolang | Dunno, here's Captain Picard's iPads: http://days.illuminous-avantgarde.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/picard-padds-513x366.jpg | 18:17 |
| parolang | I liked SeaQuest :) | 18:18 |
| QuantumG | and he has the facial expression of most iPad users | 18:18 |
| parolang | What facial expression is that? | 18:18 |
| QuantumG | forced smile | 18:19 |
| parolang | I didn't see the smile :) | 18:19 |
| parolang | But...I just hope that desktops and laptops won't be wiped out by the onrush of tablets. | 18:20 |
| parolang | I don't think they will be though...tablets will just, finally, become a viable form factor, which is a net win I guess. | 18:21 |
| parolang | QuantumG: Oh...sorry, I didn't realize that was your post/avatar. | 18:23 |
| * parolang feels like a jerk. | 18:23 | |
| parolang | Wow, I suck. | 18:24 |
| QuantumG | hehe, no worries | 18:28 |
| QuantumG | I know its cheezy | 18:29 |
| parolang | For what it's worth, I think the post itself is interesting :) | 18:29 |
| parolang | I didn't know you were part of OpenCog. | 18:29 |
| QuantumG | I did some dev.. tried to get them going in a sensible direction.. gave up when the leadership was just completely absent and everyone was more interested in talking about how to optimise stuff when they hadn't even figured out how to make it work yet. | 18:30 |
| JayDugger | QuantumG: Have you read Keith Cowen's "After the Software Wars"? | 18:31 |
| parolang | Early optimization is the root of all evil. | 18:31 |
| parolang | Or something like that :) | 18:31 |
| QuantumG | Keith Curtis? | 18:31 |
| JayDugger | http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?page_id=407 | 18:32 |
| QuantumG | and no, I haven't read it | 18:32 |
| QuantumG | looks interesting though | 18:32 |
| JayDugger | If you've read it, or if you know of him, I'd like your opinion on its worth. | 18:32 |
| JayDugger | I read fast, but that just means I have to limit what I read. | 18:33 |
| JayDugger | The range of what I could read is larger than the range of what deserves reading--and great literature takes work. | 18:33 |
| parolang | Okay...some stupid speculation about strong AI. | 18:34 |
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| parolang | But has anyone considered that one way of considering strong AI is as a program that modifies itself? Yeah, I know that sounds lame, but there's more to it. | 18:35 |
| QuantumG | most everyone :) | 18:36 |
| Noahj | I'm sure someone has | 18:36 |
| Noahj | I'm assuming by "considered" you mean "attempted to implement"... um... ed. | 18:36 |
| parolang | Yeah...I realize that everyone has thought it. | 18:36 |
| Noahj | That one quine page had a self-modifying one, I think, my memory might be faulty though | 18:37 |
| Noahj | *checks* | 18:37 |
| parolang | But, what I'm trying to get to is that you consider the AI as a program that modifies itself, but you start with the human being modifying the program. | 18:37 |
| parolang | The programmer develops better and better tools for automating, analyzing, and synthesizing the program. | 18:38 |
| parolang | Until eventually the programmer takes his self out of the picture entirely, and leaves the program towork on itself. | 18:38 |
| Noahj | I guess if program analysis were that far it'd be strong AI! | 18:38 |
| Noahj | Programs are pretty bad at finding bugs in themselves though | 18:38 |
| Noahj | And I bet bug-finding modules are even worse at finding bugs in themselves | 18:39 |
| QuantumG | "strong AI" to me is just masturbation. Either it can do the tasks I want it to do or it can't. | 18:39 |
| parolang | Noahj: Well...depends on what kind of bug. There are different kinds of bugs. | 18:39 |
| Noahj | Rather, if there's a bug in your bug-finding module you've got to have a bug finding module bug finder to find that bug | 18:39 |
| Noahj | I'm pretty sure masturbation isn't strong AI | 18:39 |
| Noahj | But perhaps I'm mis-implementing it | 18:39 |
| QuantumG | true, you can define masturbation | 18:40 |
| Noahj | :-D | 18:40 |
| parolang | Noahj: Which is why your referencing "quines" earlier hits the nail on the head. It's very much a quine-like difficulty, but since quines are possible, a bug-finding module is also possible. | 18:40 |
| Noahj | I'd say if it doesn't do what you want | 18:40 |
| Noahj | It's strong AI | 18:40 |
| Noahj | Otherwise, it's weaker than you are, for submitting | 18:41 |
| Noahj | http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/quine.htm < this -the- quine page (apparently)... | 18:41 |
| Noahj | *scans for self-modification* | 18:41 |
| parolang | Noahj: Yeah, I've studies that, and other quine pages online. | 18:42 |
| Noahj | The polyglots are arguably kinda similar... | 18:42 |
| parolang | *studied | 18:42 |
| Noahj | Except instead of languages A and B it's languages A with bugs and A without :-p | 18:42 |
| parolang | There are a ton of ways of approaching the problem of AI, this is just one that I thought interesting. | 18:42 |
| parolang | Noahj: Well...I think we would need to be more specific about the *kind* of bug. | 18:43 |
| parolang | But generally, a program can be defined by what constitutes failure (defining the program negatively). | 18:44 |
| parolang | A bug is when a program fails when it isn't supposed to fail, or succeeds when it isn't supposed to succeed. | 18:44 |
| Noahj | So if you had a specific set of bugs which outputs a working program | 18:44 |
| parolang | Like how a search program fails if it doesn't find what it is searching for. | 18:45 |
| parolang | But...there's probably another layer of bugs, and that's when a program's definition doesn't meet it's intent. | 18:46 |
| parolang | The program might work entirely in the way it is defined, but it doesn't perform the way the programmer intended the program to perform. | 18:47 |
| QuantumG | Software Wars is about free software | 18:47 |
| parolang | The program's definition is basically a concept, and the programmer is trying to find the appropriate concept to meet his requirements. | 18:48 |
| parolang | It's conceptual analysis...something philosophers have been doing since Thales. | 18:48 |
| parolang | But for strong AI, we need the program to do the conceptual analysis. | 18:49 |
| QuantumG | the AI section of Software Wars amounts to: here's an example of something great that has been achieved in AI, where's the code? locked in a vault. | 18:50 |
| kanzure | wow most boring backlog ever | 19:00 |
| parolang | Whatever. Back to lurking. | 19:01 |
| kanzure | Bookmark and Share Scheme for Computing Carbon Weight (footprint) for Manufactured Products Project http://www.nist.gov/mel/msid/dpg/sccwmp.cfm | 19:04 |
| kanzure | haha why does nist.go have a "bookmark and scare" widget :/ | 19:04 |
| kanzure | nist is going "social"11one | 19:04 |
| kanzure | Impact of Energy Measurements in Machining Operations http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=905594 (pdf) | 19:05 |
| kanzure | manufacturing animations http://www.mel.nist.gov/msid/avi_downloads.html | 19:07 |
| kanzure | these should be on youtube | 19:07 |
| parolang | Actually, I should take a hint. Take care fellas. | 19:07 |
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| kanzure | huh? | 19:08 |
| JayDugger | Don't search "NIST" on YouTube. You'll get a lot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists. | 19:09 |
| kanzure | did nist.gov somehow plan/coordinate the attack? | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | Sure. At the behest of Skull & Bones, Mossad, and to fulfill the ancient prophecies that were handed down by the survivors of the exploded planet through the ancient Egyptians through the Masons. | 19:11 |
| JayDugger | I could tell you how, since that came up at my last union meeting--back when I worked for MAJESTIC. | 19:12 |
| JayDugger | :-P | 19:12 |
| JayDugger | Conspiracy theories make good entertainment, but that's about all. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | yep | 19:13 |
| kanzure | 40 MB but 29sec video showing an assembly line for a table saw http://www.nist.gov/msid/transfer/AVI_downloads/bdda.zip | 19:13 |
| kanzure | but the assembly line is not actually shown, just parts flying around everywhere | 19:14 |
| kanzure | for some reason it wouldn't run in mplayer | 19:14 |
| JayDugger | http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/5877/upload-a-video-to-youtube#comment | 19:14 |
| JayDugger | wget or curl to get the videos, something like that commandlinefu to upload to YT? | 19:15 |
| jrayhawk | cclive works pretty well for youtube | 19:15 |
| jrayhawk | and vimeo | 19:16 |
| JayDugger | Time to commute. I have a 23andMe report, plus H+ transcripts to read at $DAYJOB. | 19:18 |
| JayDugger | Good night, everyone. | 19:18 |
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| jrayhawk | oh, wrong operation, sorry | 19:23 |
| kanzure | wtf how do you force wget to ignore robots.txt | 19:28 |
| jrayhawk | there's a hidden option | 19:28 |
| kanzure | it's not in the man pages | 19:28 |
| jrayhawk | http://wget.addictivecode.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#head-badfdf9c2571452db5d048ff7e080a9247cf6b97 | 19:29 |
| jrayhawk | thus the definition of "hidden" | 19:29 |
| kanzure | i feel bad since i'm raping archive.org but it's for only a handful of files.. | 19:29 |
| kanzure | each which are pretty small | 19:29 |
| jrayhawk | archive.org didn't feel guilty about it when they did it | 19:29 |
| kanzure | yes but i also don't have balls of steel (archive.org spidered those away from me too) | 19:30 |
| jrayhawk | clever bastards | 19:30 |
| kanzure | but i'm pretty happy about this | 19:30 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20030216045110/www.nist.gov/sc4/step/parts/ | 19:30 |
| kanzure | i <3 nist | 19:30 |
| kanzure | each of these folders would cost me $300+ from ISO or ANSI | 19:31 |
| jrayhawk | ba ha ha that's fantastic | 19:32 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: "Thanks for your comments. I think we're getting closer to this every day. Keep tuned." and that's how you tell a crazy person to go away. Ask Andrew about this skill. :) | 19:33 |
| kanzure | actually, a lot of his emails to me are like tha-- | 19:33 |
| kanzure | wait | 19:33 |
| jrayhawk | I guess the wget developers make it difficult to find that robots option in order to decrease the likelihood that wget gets specifically banned | 19:33 |
| QuantumG | hehe | 19:33 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: you mean the user agent string? | 19:33 |
| jrayhawk | yeah | 19:33 |
| kanzure | who the hell uses the default user agent string | 19:33 |
| jrayhawk | really they should just alter the user string when they're executing with -e robots=off | 19:34 |
| jrayhawk | and then, you know, document that functionality instead of making you search mailing lists and FAQs and shit | 19:35 |
| QuantumG | I was about to say, that's the option they don't advertise on the man page | 19:35 |
| kanzure | is there a --suck-ass=off option? | 19:35 |
| kanzure | the web needs a deragotory proxy for .deb packages | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | what's annoying is how poorly documented the dont-download-the-shit-I-already-have option is. | 19:36 |
| kanzure | replacing every option with terrible puns and phrases that make your grandma puke | 19:36 |
| QuantumG | -N Turn on time-stamping. | 19:37 |
| kanzure | hm | 19:37 |
| kanzure | haven't heard of that one | 19:37 |
| jrayhawk | basically every gnu utility needs a --suck-ass=off | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | oh, thanks for that, what's that mean? I know, I'll search for -N on the man page | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | When running Wget without -N, ... | 19:37 |
| QuantumG | ok, no help there | 19:37 |
| kanzure | have you tried reading the source | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | When running Wget with -r, but without -N, ... | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | ok | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | When running Wget with -N, with or without -r, the decision as to | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | whether or not to download a newer copy of a file depends on the | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | local and remote timestamp and size of the file. -nc may not be | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | specified at the same time as -N. | 19:38 |
| kanzure | oh fooey | 19:38 |
| QuantumG | hehe, I guess if you want to know *how* the decision is made, read the source. | 19:39 |
| kanzure | this isn't going to work | 19:39 |
| kanzure | wget -m -np http://web.archive.org/web/20030216045110/www.nist.gov/sc4/step/parts/ --user-agent="blah" -e robots=off | 19:39 |
| kanzure | because the timestamp changes | 19:39 |
| kanzure | i guess i could do /web/*/blah/blah/blah and hope all of the files are in the index (?) | 19:39 |
| kanzure | but archive.org switches from /web/*/ to some other weird shit in that situation | 19:39 |
| kanzure | (i.e. for pagination it changes from * to 1_tjoi3rj130_2) | 19:39 |
| jrayhawk | every BSD utility needs a --punching-user-in-the-face=no | 19:39 |
| kanzure | and a --also-get-me-booze | 19:40 |
| QuantumG | since when do BSD utilities understand long style options? :) | 19:41 |
| kanzure | since they stopped sucking butt | 19:41 |
| kanzure | hm it occurs to me that QuantumG won't get that | 19:41 |
| kanzure | any ideas on my wget dillema? | 19:42 |
| jrayhawk | i think the concept of sucking butt transcends all cultural boundaries | 19:42 |
| QuantumG | sorry, what are you trying to do? | 19:42 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: i want to download all this shiz: http://web.archive.org/web/20030216045110/www.nist.gov/sc4/step/parts/ | 19:42 |
| jrayhawk | using --continue is usually what i do to avoid all this timestampt-brokenness nonsense | 19:42 |
| QuantumG | just wget -r it | 19:43 |
| kanzure | yes but i don't want the parent directories | 19:43 |
| kanzure | i do wget -m -np (mirror, no parent) | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | I don't think wget will do the parent anyway | 19:43 |
| kanzure | sadly, when the timestamp in the url changes, that qualifies as a parent | 19:43 |
| jrayhawk | yes it will | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | suckage | 19:43 |
| QuantumG | so wget -r -np doesn't do what you want? | 19:44 |
| kanzure | because of -np | 19:44 |
| kanzure | i need a conditional -np i guess? | 19:44 |
| QuantumG | sorry, why doesn't -r -np do what you want? | 19:45 |
| jrayhawk | oh i see, you want some of the files from different timestamps | 19:45 |
| kanzure | -np stops it from downloading the files | 19:45 |
| kanzure | because archive.org has the files linked together in weird, weird ways | 19:45 |
| kanzure | like sometimes it goes back into the future and downloads them | 19:45 |
| kanzure | so it has a different timestamp | 19:45 |
| kanzure | and thus it's a different parent directory to wget | 19:45 |
| QuantumG | oh.. I see | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | yeah, you're screwed | 19:46 |
| QuantumG | ok, do an exclusion on the dir you don't want | 19:46 |
| kanzure | er.. | 19:46 |
| kanzure | which is /web/ ? | 19:46 |
| kanzure | but all this stuff is technically on /web | 19:46 |
| jrayhawk | alternatively, you can work out what timestamps you have to worry about, and symlink those to . | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | wget -r -R 'http://web.archive.org/web/20030216045110/http://web.archive.org/sc4/step/' http://web.archive.org/web/20030216045110/www.nist.gov/sc4/step/parts/ | 19:47 |
| jrayhawk | and then use --continue | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | that should do something interesting | 19:47 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: no, that doesn't account for the timestamp problem.. | 19:47 |
| kanzure | lookie at the url | 19:47 |
| QuantumG | yeah, you're not doing -np | 19:48 |
| QuantumG | you're just rejecting that one url | 19:48 |
| kanzure | yes but during all those downloads archive.org will link you to some stuff on web.archive.org/web/ anyway | 19:48 |
| kanzure | and some other stuff | 19:48 |
| kanzure | i think i'll have to write a little script in perl/python/ruby real quick | 19:48 |
| kanzure | i have a list of timestamps that are relevent | 19:49 |
| kanzure | "acceptable" timestamps i suppose | 19:50 |
| kanzure | maybe this will be better? http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.nist.gov/sc4/step/parts/* | 19:50 |
| kanzure | and each of the files have a link like this: http://web.archive.org/web/*hh_/www.nist.gov/sc4/step/parts/expressx/ | 19:50 |
| kanzure | which is then the selection page for which timestamp you want | 19:50 |
| * kanzure just tries -r and sees what happens.. | 19:53 | |
| kanzure | "a standards document. However, ISO has made a specific exception for the | 20:01 |
| kanzure | EXPRESS listings and will allow them to be freely available for DIS, FDIS, | 20:01 |
| kanzure | and IS documents. These files are available for distribution without | 20:01 |
| kanzure | copyright restrictions (see SOLIS). | 20:01 |
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| kanzure | hi Alystair | 20:07 |
| Alystair | hullo | 20:08 |
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| kanzure | egeste: i just want you to know | 20:39 |
| kanzure | if i ever make another computer club | 20:39 |
| kanzure | it's totally going to be the cha0s computer club | 20:39 |
| AJollyLife | im pretty sure that names taken :P | 20:40 |
| kanzure | no no, it's chaos computer club | 20:40 |
| kanzure | cha0s is my cat | 20:40 |
| kanzure | http://austin.craigslist.org/pet/1707606407.html | 20:40 |
| AJollyLife | aw. why are you getting rid of your cat? | 20:41 |
| kanzure | that was egeste | 20:45 |
| jcluck | it's your cat, now | 20:46 |
| kanzure | guys this wasn't the most complicated joke ever | 20:46 |
| kanzure | egeste gave me a cat | 20:47 |
| kanzure | i have cat now | 20:47 |
| kanzure | the name of the cat is cha0s | 20:47 |
| kanzure | cha0s computer club :/ | 20:47 |
| genehacker | cat wearable computers? | 20:48 |
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| Alystair | why anyone would get a pet is beyond me D: | 21:10 |
| jcluck | I want to get a frilled dragon :o | 21:11 |
| genehacker | I for one want some pet bacteria cultures | 21:11 |
| genehacker | that produce useful proteins | 21:12 |
| jcluck | hehe | 21:12 |
| genehacker | pet bacteria weren't excluded from my apartment lease either | 21:13 |
| QuantumG | I have two pet fish that chase each other when they think no-one is looking. | 21:13 |
| kanzure | genehacker: yes but neither were humans | 21:13 |
| genehacker | they were | 21:13 |
| genehacker | I'm not so sure I'm going to keep bacteria as pets | 21:14 |
| genehacker | not without any containment failure self-destruct device that's for sure | 21:14 |
| AJollyLife | meh, i like pets, i just travel far too much to make it easy | 21:14 |
| jcluck | keep some yogurt as a pet | 21:14 |
| Alystair | hahaha | 21:15 |
| genehacker | yogurt bacteria aren't the model bacteria | 21:15 |
| QuantumG | yeah, I looked at automatic fish feeders and they all suck.. I tried to make my own and rediscovered how much I suck. | 21:15 |
| genehacker | how do they suck? | 21:15 |
| Alystair | the trick is not to own fish | 21:15 |
| Alystair | get a mantis shrimp instead | 21:15 |
| jcluck | they're the model bacteria for f'n eating! | 21:16 |
| jcluck | mmmm | 21:16 |
| kanzure | a friend of mine owns a fucking octopus | 21:16 |
| kanzure | me, i want a shark | 21:16 |
| kanzure | at the hackerspace | 21:16 |
| jcluck | eat ya pets | 21:16 |
| Alystair | the coolest of all crustaceans | 21:16 |
| QuantumG | genehacker: not hackable, not reliable | 21:16 |
| Alystair | kanzure: octopus have a lifespan of about 2 years tops | 21:16 |
| genehacker | double redundancy FTW | 21:16 |
| Alystair | at least they are pretty smart | 21:16 |
| Alystair | anyway check em' out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp | 21:17 |
| Alystair | neither mantis nor shrimp! | 21:17 |
| genehacker | kanzure would you want that one shark that has optical cameouflage? | 21:17 |
| Alystair | has the worlds most complex eye | 21:17 |
| genehacker | it harbors glowing bacteria | 21:17 |
| kanzure | which shark has cameouflage? the t-head? | 21:17 |
| kanzure | hrm | 21:18 |
| genehacker | http://news.discovery.com/animals/sharks-invisible-light-luminescence.html | 21:18 |
| genehacker | it hardly looks like a shark | 21:18 |
| kanzure | i was reading an infrared fluorescent protein paper the other day | 21:18 |
| * kanzure wants a high-infrared fluorescent protein | 21:19 | |
| genehacker | why high infrared? | 21:19 |
| kanzure | to get information out of the skull | 21:19 |
| kanzure | at about 10 micron wavelengths the skull starts acting as a waveguide | 21:19 |
| genehacker | emit light in the infrared range? | 21:19 |
| kanzure | there's one that is "low infrared" (less than 1 micron) | 21:19 |
| genehacker | emit light when excited by infrared? | 21:20 |
| genehacker | you'd need reverse fluorescence to do that | 21:20 |
| kanzure | no, the excitation is something else | 21:20 |
| kanzure | wait | 21:20 |
| kanzure | uh | 21:20 |
| kanzure | i should check this | 21:20 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/papers/Mammalian%20expression%20of%20infrared%20fluorescent%20proteins%20engineered%20from%20a%20bacterial%20phytochrome.pdf | 21:20 |
| kanzure | 900nm | 21:20 |
| kanzure | yeah, so it's not the excitation part | 21:21 |
| kanzure | just hook up some calcium trigger or something | 21:21 |
| genehacker | why do you want to go through the skull like that? | 21:22 |
| genehacker | just pipe in an optical fiber | 21:22 |
| kanzure | what was that optical fiber BCI name? it wasn't "EPOC" (that was the Emotiv crap) | 21:23 |
| genehacker | never heard of anything commercial | 21:23 |
| kanzure | it wasn't | 21:26 |
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| AJollyLife | this is totally tooting my own horn, but I really like some of my photos from h+ | 23:16 |
| QuantumG | url? | 23:18 |
| AJollyLife | not all posted yet | 23:18 |
| AJollyLife | the ones from the first day are, i'm looking through the day2 photos now, and will upload them overnight :) | 23:18 |
| AJollyLife | but they will be here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajolly/sets/72157624141398171/ | 23:19 |
| QuantumG | thanks | 23:22 |
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