| --- Log opened Tue Jul 06 00:00:17 2010 | ||
| fenn | heh not at all, she's actually a babe | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| splicer | (milf encounter) | 00:08 |
| fenn | She was born on February 28th, 1980 in Elblag, Poland. | 00:12 |
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| fenn | surprising how quickly i found that | 00:12 |
| splicer | (I retract earlier suggestions) | 00:15 |
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| AJollyLife | fenn: where do i know that woman from? | 00:15 |
| fenn | hplus | 00:18 |
| fenn | im sort of disappointed we spent the whole time talking about the downsides to releasing personal data, which is not really what the event blurb said | 00:19 |
| fenn | "This house believes that in the future the benefits of openness will outweigh those of privacy." | 00:20 |
| AJollyLife | i agree with TH | 00:24 |
| AJollyLife | i'd totally run that government case :) | 00:24 |
| fenn | TH? | 00:24 |
| AJollyLife | th = this house | 00:24 |
| fenn | er, please expand your colloquialism then | 00:24 |
| AJollyLife | in debate, its the group/body that you are arguing as | 00:24 |
| AJollyLife | sorry, since you used that quotation i assumed you were a debater | 00:25 |
| fenn | i thought they meant "this house" as in "rainbow mansion" | 00:25 |
| AJollyLife | so in debate, you will get a potential resolution, such as "This house believes that in the future the benefits of openness will outweigh those of privacy.". as the government, or pro side, you get to define terms....including who "this house" actually is | 00:26 |
| fenn | ok | 00:26 |
| AJollyLife | anyways, i really need sleep | 00:27 |
| AJollyLife | i was going to go to bed early :( | 00:27 |
| AJollyLife | its now 3:30 am | 00:27 |
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| fenn | braaaaains | 02:39 |
| fenn | i furtively photographed the rainbow mansion book collection: http://fennetic.net/rainbow_books/ | 02:46 |
| * fenn tries laying on a mattress some more | 02:48 | |
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| Bruns | hai | 03:47 |
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| fenn | "Get notified when the scales of love tip in your favor at your favorite local hangouts! 6 girls, 3 guys, In your favor!" | 04:43 |
| fenn | i'm cracking up over here | 04:43 |
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| kanzure | On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:12 AM, jelle feringa <jelleferinga@gmail.com> wrote: | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > Hi Bryan, | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > I think your presentation of PythonOCC was a total waste of the audience time. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > You probably did not spend more than 10 minutes on it ( shame on you if you did ). | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > YOU FAILED TO SHOW A SINGLE PYTHONOCC IMAGE. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > There is not a single image from our project. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > Not one. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > Consider your PythonOCC license revoked. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > | 07:20 |
| kanzure | > -jelle | 07:20 |
| kanzure | um | 07:20 |
| kanzure | what a load of bullshit | 07:20 |
| Utopiah | revoking a GPL license on a personal basis? how is that possible | 07:23 |
| uniqanomaly | LOL, nice one | 07:23 |
| kanzure | not only that, but jelle is totally full of shit | 07:25 |
| kanzure | there clearly *are* pythonocc-rendered images in the presentation | 07:25 |
| kanzure | and the audience loved the presentation :( | 07:25 |
| ENKI-][ | i don't think it's counter to the license to revoke a gpl on an individual | 07:31 |
| ENKI-][ | but a lawyer could tell you better | 07:31 |
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| bdesk | kanzure: wow that is harsh | 07:46 |
| kanzure | skdb has a big dependency on pythonocc | 07:48 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: let's talk in here | 07:48 |
| JayDugger | You can either work hard to remove | 07:48 |
| bdesk | he is not really revoking your license, he is just super pissed. you can just show him the .pdf of your presentation so he sees that it has teh pictures. | 07:49 |
| kanzure | presumably he has already seen it? | 07:49 |
| kanzure | link: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/presentations/scipy2010/pythonOCC.pdf | 07:49 |
| JayDugger | that dependency, or you can work hard to regain "jelle feringa" good graces. | 07:49 |
| kanzure | maybe he's upset that i didn't include an image of something rendered by pythonocc after the pythonocc slide | 07:50 |
| kanzure | but that's still pretty balsy of him | 07:50 |
| Utopiah | yep | 07:50 |
| kanzure | since i showed a two minute youtube video | 07:50 |
| JayDugger | Well, I've seen flashier presentations, but that's a lame reason to get upset. | 07:51 |
| kanzure | it's all in the delivery. | 07:51 |
| JayDugger | Esp. if the material matched the audience's needs and they appreciated it. | 07:51 |
| JayDugger | Assuming you want to regain Jelle Feringa's good graces, then reconciling with him or her matters. | 07:53 |
| bdesk | yes but don't worry about the license 'revocation' | 07:54 |
| kanzure | it's gpl | 07:54 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, I see that on the website. | 07:54 |
| JayDugger | That makes me wonder...is English a second language for Feringa? Perhaps translation error makes the text harsher than intended. | 07:55 |
| JayDugger | (Yes, yes--making excuses for other people, giving them the benefit of the doubt, AKA giving someone a chance to save face.) | 07:55 |
| JayDugger | Open Knowledge Packages and CKAN, an Archive Network Bryan Bishop--Was that another talk you gave? | 07:57 |
| kanzure | it was supposed to be.. but it was my fault that it didn't happen | 07:58 |
| JayDugger | So this one substituted? | 07:59 |
| kanzure | no | 08:00 |
| kanzure | it turns out i had two talks accepted | 08:00 |
| JayDugger | Re: Jelle Feringa--display sincere contrition (genuine if possible), ask for help in understanding what's meant by the disapproval (act stupid here), and with luck you'll get a lecture which you can then judge on its own merits. Adopt what seems valid or useful, note what you expect matters to J.F. for use in future dealings, and continue on as you think best. | 08:03 |
| JayDugger | Don't let your ego hinder your efforts to get J.F. to act as you want. | 08:04 |
| bdesk | I am failing at installing https://projets.pasteur.fr/wiki/2/Administrator_Guide | 08:05 |
| bdesk | this is supposed to be a way to run free bioinformatics programs through a web 'portal' (cgi). | 08:06 |
| JayDugger | Giving that advice takes far less effort than taking it. It boils down to expedient hypocrisy and a certain amount of deceit in service of your long-term goals. | 08:06 |
| JayDugger | No, I am not in marketing. :) | 08:06 |
| bdesk | o.O | 08:06 |
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| JayDugger | Once that's done, you can continue working with pythonocc. | 08:10 |
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| bdesk | what library of software does the diy bio community use to analyze their data? is their any effort on this front, or do you just pick and choose from what you find with google searches? | 08:14 |
| bdesk | is there* | 08:15 |
| bdesk | when i used to read books i never confused its/it's lose/loose their/their/they're your/you're but then i started reading the internet... | 08:16 |
| kanzure | trying to get diybio people to use software is like trying to get any other biologist to use software | 08:16 |
| kanzure | but in general, you'd probably know better tools | 08:16 |
| kanzure | just by hanging out in #bioinformatics | 08:16 |
| bdesk | well other biologists can use proprietary software. | 08:17 |
| bdesk | presumably diy bio people do not have university licenses. | 08:17 |
| bdesk | for example http://www.geneious.com/ and http://www.clcbio.com/index.php?id=1240 | 08:19 |
| kanzure | well there are a subset of people into diybio and on the diybio list who are also academics and have access to those software packages | 08:19 |
| kanzure | but yeah, a lot of it is just google-and-go | 08:20 |
| kanzure | for the web-based bioinformatics cgi gateway stuff | 08:20 |
| fenn | jelle's email is teh lulz. i did not see the presentation so i can't comment | 08:25 |
| bdesk | i doubt the presentation had more pictures than the pdf | 08:28 |
| kanzure | it did not | 08:34 |
| kanzure | but it's not like i was talking from the slides.. | 08:34 |
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| kanzure | fenn: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/presentations/scipy2010/pythonOCC.pdf | 08:35 |
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| fenn | well, to be fair it _was_ a 10 minute presentation, so "you did not spend more than 10 minutes on it" is correct. and there was _one_ image of pythonOCC | 09:32 |
| * fenn mumbles something about auditioning for a hacker tv show | 09:34 | |
| genehacker | you don't audition for a hacker tv show, you start your own pirate tv station and give the FCC trouble | 09:41 |
| genehacker | wow that's pretty harsh | 09:41 |
| kanzure | fenn: will you apply? | 09:44 |
| kanzure | "-- FULL NAME, HEIGHT, ADDRESS, PHONE NUMBER, EMAIL " | 09:45 |
| kanzure | height? | 09:45 |
| kanzure | weird place to put it in the priority list. | 09:46 |
| kanzure | "As a consequence, we do not ever want to have something to do with you again, whether or not it's related to pythonocc. I removed the 'Scipy 2010' post from the pythonocc.org website and also removed your email adress from the pythonocc-users ml." | 09:48 |
| kanzure | what the fuck | 09:48 |
| kanzure | woah | 09:48 |
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| fenn | ouch | 09:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: i am so confused | 09:53 |
| AJollyLife | kanzure: wow, you really pissed that dude off | 09:54 |
| fenn | fork! | 09:54 |
| fenn | actually, get rid of all that swig crap, which leaves basically nothing | 09:54 |
| kanzure | i just don't even understand how they think their behavior is acceptable | 09:55 |
| bdesk | lets make our own pythonocc, with blackjack, and hookers! | 09:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: i don't even know how to reply | 10:03 |
| bdesk | kanzure: i know what is going on. they thought your presentation made pythonocc look bad compared to its competitors. you showed pythonocc with legos, and its competitors with mech warriors. | 10:10 |
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| kanzure | oh please | 10:10 |
| kanzure | the mech warrior slide was like 5 seconds | 10:11 |
| bdesk | actually i didn't even see the mech warrior slide, i was talking metaphorically about the other flashy pictures. | 10:12 |
| bdesk | your talk was like 'CAD is awesome'! and they wanted the talk to be 'pythonocc is awesome compared to other CAD programs!' | 10:13 |
| kanzure | in my talk i spent a lot of time going over the different CAD representations or 'schemes' | 10:14 |
| bdesk | this is the only explanation i can think of why they woudl be so pissed | 10:14 |
| kanzure | i was talking about csg, brep, solid geometry modeling, and the different ways of utilizing these features via the python wrappers | 10:14 |
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| kanzure | lepton: i'm sending you some "wtf" emails | 10:15 |
| lepton | haha, sounds good | 10:17 |
| kanzure | okay, sent. | 10:17 |
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| lepton | Am I correctly interpreting those as being serious? | 10:19 |
| kanzure | apparently! | 10:19 |
| kanzure | i thought jelle's email at first was just humor | 10:19 |
| kanzure | so i pasted it in here | 10:19 |
| kanzure | but then i got the one from thomas | 10:20 |
| lepton | Wow, that's crazy | 10:20 |
| lepton | I've interacted with them both via email, I'm pretty surprised at that | 10:20 |
| lepton | wtf indeed!! | 10:20 |
| kanzure | > Consider your PythonOCC license revoked. | 10:21 |
| Utopiah | it's basly to share private emails on a public channel too btw kanzure ... | 10:21 |
| Utopiah | \ballsy | 10:21 |
| lepton | > Consider your PythonOCC license revoked. | 10:21 |
| lepton | I talked with my lawyers, and you can't do that- you released it under | 10:21 |
| lepton | the GPL, Jelle. | 10:21 |
| lepton | Nice | 10:21 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: yes, that's true | 10:21 |
| kanzure | i think i *need* the community's input on this one, though | 10:21 |
| kanzure | this is just too weird for me to do it alone | 10:22 |
| Utopiah | yep, I understand just saying that.. have to be cautious on the way to do si | 10:22 |
| Utopiah | s/si/so/ ( /me need extra coffe) | 10:22 |
| kanzure | coffee :P | 10:22 |
| * Utopiah -> woooshhh | 10:22 | |
| kanzure | jelle and thomas once sent me this email a while back | 10:23 |
| kanzure | complaining that i had Level2API.py on my server | 10:23 |
| kanzure | and that it shouldn't be there | 10:23 |
| kanzure | and they were /dead serious/ | 10:23 |
| lepton | Very strange | 10:24 |
| kanzure | am i just socially inept or something? | 10:24 |
| lepton | Sorry to hear about all of that, it seems like a rather bizarre over reaction | 10:24 |
| lepton | I mean, geeze, it's an open, volunteer based project! | 10:25 |
| kanzure | lepton: also, i just thought you should know since you're into pythonocc :P | 10:25 |
| lepton | Yeah, I appreciate that (though I've been in EMC2 land for the past month and all my multiobjective optimization work has been neglected) | 10:25 |
| Utopiah | kanzure: if you want send me a "package" of conversations + license in historical order, Im heading tomorrow to LSM ( http://2010.rmll.info/spip.php?lang=en ) and I get try to get my hands on some GPL experts there | 10:26 |
| kanzure | emc2 land is probably more productive | 10:26 |
| Utopiah | s/get try/can try/ | 10:26 |
| kanzure | hmm? | 10:26 |
| kanzure | no, no, i have lawyers | 10:26 |
| kanzure | but i'm not interested in using them | 10:26 |
| kanzure | this is all balogna anyway | 10:26 |
| lepton | I think you should rewrite OCC from scratch, now | 10:27 |
| kanzure | heh | 10:27 |
| lepton | Since you mentioned that before :p | 10:27 |
| kanzure | btw, step.py is still coming along (sort of) | 10:27 |
| lepton | Nice | 10:28 |
| kanzure | i'm not really sure what's wrong with it at the moment | 10:28 |
| kanzure | but when i generate a .step file, it's not opening up correctly in HeeksCAD | 10:28 |
| kanzure | and it's not entirely clear how to go about debugging other than checking if the outputs are the same (of saving a "sphere" in HeeksCAD versus saving a sphere via step.py) | 10:28 |
| lepton | What about using other programs to test the files? | 10:29 |
| lepton | To make sure that the issue isn't HeeksCAD specific | 10:29 |
| kanzure | well, the only thing i have running at the moment is OCC stuff to load up step files | 10:30 |
| kanzure | even 'gmsh' is using OCC under the hood to load STEP files | 10:30 |
| kanzure | so unless i get vmware running again with solidworks, it's unlikely to happen | 10:30 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure the problem is on my end though ;-) | 10:30 |
| kanzure | my little tiny framework isn't robust enough yet for the fault to be somewhere else | 10:30 |
| kanzure | 'tiny' might be the wrong word | 10:31 |
| lepton | If you send me some files I can test in Solidworks | 10:32 |
| lepton | with a latency of a day or two | 10:32 |
| kanzure | heh okie dokie | 10:32 |
| lepton | I'll be in Solidworks a lot tomorrow, fyi | 10:34 |
| lepton | but I'm mostly living in Linux these days | 10:34 |
| kanzure | bbl. i need to spend some time wondering why i bother with people | 10:36 |
| lepton | :/ don't feel bad, kanzure | 10:37 |
| lepton | People are crazy sometimes, it's an inevitability of being out there in the world | 10:37 |
| lepton | But I think there's more good than bad in the long run | 10:38 |
| lepton | Anyway, I should focus on wiring up digital IOs to finish our EMC conversion | 10:39 |
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| kanzure | 'You have been unsubscribed from the Pythonocc-users mailing list | 10:51 |
| kanzure | ' | 10:51 |
| kanzure | lifeboat.com picked up the itft .. uh.. contest? yeah, contest: http://lifeboat.com/blog/2010/07/whats-your-idea-to-bodyshock-the-future | 10:51 |
| fenn | i thought your 'wtf' response was very well written, and they are being asses | 10:51 |
| kanzure | s/itft/iftf/ | 10:54 |
| fenn | hum maybe i'll submit my networkable immune system idea.. will have to learn blender again (sigh) | 10:54 |
| fenn | do we know any graphics artsy people? | 10:55 |
| fenn | particularly animation | 10:55 |
| kanzure | yes, all of the makerbot people | 10:55 |
| kanzure | well, not all of them :) | 10:55 |
| kanzure | but a lot of them are from the world of blender | 10:56 |
| fenn | um, um, no | 10:56 |
| kanzure | hm? | 10:56 |
| fenn | most of that crap is kindergarten level sketchup | 10:56 |
| fenn | the rest was written by coders in openscad | 10:56 |
| kanzure | agreed.. but apparently they do better stuff in blender (?) | 10:56 |
| kanzure | okay, well, even if they did, i probably don't want to recommend you use them | 10:57 |
| kanzure | even if they did do better stuff in blender, i mean. | 10:57 |
| fenn | maybe i can get forrest bishop interested | 10:57 |
| fenn | someone from molecularmovies.org would be awesome | 10:59 |
| kanzure | fenn: while you're at it, if you can find me a web designer / graphics person who actually has time (and who will accept money from me), that would be hawt | 10:59 |
| kanzure | are they the ones who did 'inner life of the cell'? | 10:59 |
| kanzure | because alex lightman knows the inner-life-of-the-cell peeps | 10:59 |
| fenn | web designers are a dime a dozen at the dojo.. | 10:59 |
| kanzure | they showed off the next installment of inner-life-of-the-cell at hplus summit 2010 | 10:59 |
| fenn | yeah the harvard people did some ok stuff | 11:00 |
| fenn | ugh there's no way i'm going to learn all this http://www.molecularmovies.com/learning/index.html | 11:01 |
| fenn | nevermind that it's all for expensive software i don't have | 11:01 |
| kanzure | After Effects, Cinema4D, Maya, looks like lots of proprietary software to me | 11:02 |
| fenn | i think blender can do all of that, if you can figure out the name mapping | 11:02 |
| bdesk | wow that site looks slick. | 11:02 |
| kanzure | fyi if you're serious about using blender for this, blender has a ridiculously huge forum | 11:02 |
| fenn | i know, i just have too many projects, need a clone, etc | 11:03 |
| bdesk | i know someone who does blender a bit and might have free time | 11:03 |
| kanzure | someone talked with me after my scipy2010 talk about how he and some friends were writing this blender plugin to make it a CAD tool | 11:03 |
| kanzure | i found the nearest blunt object and bashed his face in | 11:03 |
| kanzure | i've been on the run ever since | 11:03 |
| bdesk | wait what is wrong with that | 11:04 |
| kanzure | here we go again.. i should write a fucking FAQ (FFAQ) | 11:04 |
| fenn | it's a dead and rotting horse | 11:04 |
| bdesk | ? | 11:04 |
| kanzure | er | 11:04 |
| bdesk | i have not heard the rant | 11:04 |
| kanzure | that's not the typical explanation | 11:04 |
| bdesk | maybe write a blog of it | 11:05 |
| fenn | blender was never meant to be a cad tool, multiple attempts at making it so have failed, every year some new recruits get the idea and try again | 11:05 |
| bdesk | if that is the case there should really be a faq for it, because i would be tempted to use it as a CAD. | 11:05 |
| kanzure | yes, everyone is tempted to use it for CAD | 11:05 |
| kanzure | yeah.. i should write the faq | 11:06 |
| fenn | there is even a blendercad mailing list | 11:06 |
| kanzure | o rly | 11:06 |
| kanzure | lovely | 11:06 |
| bdesk | is there a free CAD that is not blender and that is not pythonocc? | 11:06 |
| kanzure | bdesk: http://heekscad.org/ | 11:06 |
| lepton | freecad | 11:06 |
| fenn | i still havent seen any actual results from freecad | 11:06 |
| kanzure | lepton: show me someone who has successfully used freecad to do anything, ever | 11:06 |
| lepton | heekscad seems to be going in a better Dev diretion, though | 11:06 |
| kanzure | gah | 11:06 |
| lepton | oh, I've tried | 11:06 |
| lepton | with bad results | 11:06 |
| lepton | I do not recommend | 11:06 |
| lepton | but it exists | 11:06 |
| kanzure | fenn and i get stuck on the same brain wave frequency from time to time | 11:06 |
| kanzure | it's.. weird. | 11:07 |
| kanzure | bdesk: another option is http://openscad.org/ but honestly it only exports to mesh file formats, so it's not really CAD | 11:07 |
| lepton | I typically rely on binaural entrainment to sync up brainwaves ;) | 11:07 |
| fenn | http://ericmika.com/itp/blender-cad | 11:07 |
| lepton | The big problem I have with FOSS cad is nothing I've encountered has an easy to use parametric engine | 11:08 |
| lepton | that's what got my into pythonocc in the first place | 11:08 |
| fenn | yep | 11:08 |
| kanzure | right | 11:08 |
| kanzure | actually, writing a constraints engine has been on my todo list | 11:08 |
| kanzure | there's a few python libraries out there that kinda sorta do it.. uh. maybe. | 11:09 |
| kanzure | basically the steps are something like this: | 11:09 |
| kanzure | (1) find a python/CAD library | 11:09 |
| kanzure | (2) hook up sympy (or something like it) for constraints and measurements and relations | 11:09 |
| kanzure | (3) get a constraints library to help resolve and propagate constraints throughout a model | 11:09 |
| kanzure | in many cases people do #3 with techniques from graph theory | 11:09 |
| kanzure | i spent a few years hanging out in a graph theory lab sitting in the middle of a mechanical engineering department.. | 11:10 |
| fenn | there was a constraints library somebody hooked up to heekscad, they were sticking to 2d until the bugs got worked out though, and supposedly it generalizes to 3d | 11:10 |
| fenn | pysketcher(?) | 11:10 |
| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/wiki/GeometricConstraints | 11:10 |
| kanzure | wait, doesn't OCC have constraints libraries? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | or is that one of their for-pay libraries? | 11:11 |
| lepton | Yes | 11:11 |
| kanzure | yes to which :P | 11:11 |
| lepton | I don't think it's for-pay | 11:11 |
| fenn | the second i think | 11:11 |
| kanzure | heekscad sketchsolve constraints demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nibjuxCbUag | 11:11 |
| lepton | I'm pretty sure OCC has a non-pay constraints library, and that's what the PythonOCC PAF is built off of (not that I can get the damn thing to compile on Ubuntu, ever) | 11:11 |
| lepton | but I might be wrong on that (please correct me if that's the case) | 11:12 |
| fenn | paf is using salome's parametric stuff, i dont think it's constraints based | 11:12 |
| lepton | ohhh yeah, you're right, it is coming from salome | 11:13 |
| lepton | that's why I couldn't ever get anywhere with it | 11:13 |
| fenn | salome is heavily dependent on occ so it might as well be the same thing | 11:13 |
| kanzure | yeah i've never figured out the practical difference | 11:13 |
| kanzure | it's like salome was separated from occ.. for what reason? | 11:13 |
| fenn | licensing probably | 11:14 |
| kanzure | pythonocc parametric modeling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUCv7COgzU0 | 11:14 |
| kanzure | i actually showed this video during my talk | 11:14 |
| fenn | lol | 11:14 |
| kanzure | because i know it wouldn't have worked with a live demo :P | 11:14 |
| fenn | a real professional would have made it work. it is a fault. | 11:14 |
| kanzure | yes | 11:15 |
| kanzure | wait, are you | 11:15 |
| fenn | salome is lgpl, that's probably why it's separate | 11:16 |
| fenn | though i really dont get why they don't just release occ as dual licensed lgpl/whateverclusterfuckcustomlicense | 11:16 |
| bdesk | http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/ | 11:17 |
| kanzure | elevenarms suggests i read http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2010/05/18/tim-ferriss-scam-practical-tactics-for-dealing-with-haters/ | 11:27 |
| bdesk | i was expecting to not like that but it looks pretty good. | 11:29 |
| kanzure | cluckj: haters gotta hate. | 11:31 |
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| bdesk | your only response to those emails should be http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/056/577/original/RONALDHATER.png | 11:35 |
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| kanzure | bdesk: i was thinking http://livingelpaso.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/haters.jpg | 11:41 |
| AJollyLife | tim ferris has some pretty cool blog articles up there | 11:50 |
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| kanzure | ho ho ho | 11:58 |
| kanzure | http://www.boingboing.net/2010/07/05/help-fund-a-hackersp.html | 11:58 |
| kanzure | "'Term I coined: Fakerspace - Corporate start-up masquerading as a "hackerspace" for purposes of increasing contributors.'" - Jason Scott | 11:58 |
| kanzure | heh heh | 11:58 |
| AJollyLife | lol | 11:59 |
| kanzure | that's kinda how i feel about it.. | 11:59 |
| kanzure | especially because of how livly.org turned out *cough* | 11:59 |
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| fenn | please post that to diybio, omg | 12:01 |
| AJollyLife | hm, i dont think ive ever actually talked to jason scott | 12:01 |
| kanzure | fenn: joseph would hate me forever | 12:02 |
| kanzure | i should have an anonymous puppet account on diybio | 12:02 |
| AJollyLife | whats the difference between livly and biocurious? | 12:02 |
| kanzure | john schloendorn doesn't understand diybio | 12:03 |
| bdesk | livly is more corporate i think | 12:03 |
| fenn | investment strategy | 12:03 |
| AJollyLife | seems to have the same people | 12:03 |
| kanzure | tax fraud | 12:03 |
| kanzure | er, i mean, tax status | 12:03 |
| AJollyLife | heh | 12:03 |
| kanzure | AJollyLife: it *is* the same people | 12:03 |
| fenn | actually, biocurious started out as a VC funded incubator dealie, now has mutated into a wannabe hackerspace. livly was always 501c(3) (dunno if they ever did the paperwork) | 12:03 |
| kanzure | for a while eri's garage was the most popular garage door in the diybio community | 12:03 |
| kanzure | well, it still is | 12:03 |
| kanzure | there's no other distinctly recognizable garage door photo | 12:04 |
| kanzure | http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/4044058001_71291f7196.jpg | 12:04 |
| fenn | "with distinction" | 12:05 |
| kanzure | ? | 12:05 |
| ENKI-][ | if it fails to take off or run a profit, though, is there a significant difference? aside from suddenly disappearing, i mean | 12:07 |
| kanzure | boyden teaching a class on neurotech startups http://syntheticneurobiology.org/classes/display/24 | 12:12 |
| fenn | 0/1 == 0/2 ? does it matter? | 12:14 |
| fenn | (in response to enki) | 12:15 |
| kanzure | does anyone remember one of the 'stackoverflow'-like sites for medical diagnoses? | 12:16 |
| fenn | curetogether? | 12:17 |
| fenn | curezone, maybe | 12:17 |
| kanzure | curezone is definitely not it | 12:18 |
| fenn | wrongdiagnosis | 12:18 |
| bdesk | yeah that sounds like a horrible idea | 12:19 |
| kanzure | bdesk: actually, some of these sites are pretty helpful | 12:19 |
| kanzure | i mean, when a doctor tells you that you have X, and you go on a board and post your symptoms or something | 12:19 |
| kanzure | you usually get a lot of interesting, educational advice | 12:19 |
| kanzure | now, taking the advice is usually stupid- unless you vet it over with a doc | 12:19 |
| AJollyLife | i know the site you are thinking of, but i dont remember its name atm | 12:20 |
| kanzure | i don't think it's webmd | 12:20 |
| kanzure | medgle | 12:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.medgle.com/ | 12:20 |
| kanzure | medgle is interesting, but not what i wanted | 12:21 |
| kanzure | edward miller is thinking of doing some FDA-testing on foods | 12:35 |
| kanzure | so i recommended that, instead of making up his own tests, he just uses whatever the heck the FDA is using | 12:35 |
| kanzure | http://www.fda.gov/Food/ScienceResearch/LaboratoryMethods/default.htm | 12:35 |
| cluckj | kanzure yep that's my new favorite catchphrase | 12:35 |
| kanzure | wow their procedure/testing manual is from 1984 | 12:37 |
| kanzure | Brickey, P.M., J.S. Gecan, and A. Rothschild, "Method for Determining Direction of Insect Boring through Food Packaging Materials," JAOAC 56: 640-642, 1973. | 12:38 |
| kanzure | hah | 12:38 |
| kanzure | direction of insect boring | 12:38 |
| bdesk | the insect came from INSIDE THE PACKAGE!!! | 12:38 |
| kanzure | (02:41:50 PM) Edward Miller: lol they are up with the times | 12:39 |
| kanzure | (02:41:55 PM) Edward Miller: they are using MICROSCOPES | 12:39 |
| kanzure | (02:42:19 PM) Edward Miller: the technology baffles the mind | 12:39 |
| kanzure | WITH A ONE HUNDRED EX OBJECTIVE LENSE!! | 12:39 |
| kanzure | well, i guess this /is/ the macroanalytical manual | 12:40 |
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| kanzure | for chemicals: http://www.fda.gov/Food/ScienceResearch/LaboratoryMethods/DrugChemicalResiduesMethodology/default.htm | 12:40 |
| kanzure | detection of acrylamide in foods (2002) http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/FoodContaminantsAdulteration/ChemicalContaminants/Acrylamide/ucm053537.htm | 12:41 |
| kanzure | "The methanol elution step was removed because higher recoveries were achieved with a water wash of the Oasis column instead of the methanol wash. An additional solid phase extraction (SPE) step was added to the method using a sorbent bed of C8, strong anion and cation exchange media. This step improved signal to noise ratios in samples with high levels of coextracted materials when used in conjunction with the Oasis SPE step. Post-column add | 12:41 |
| kanzure | i <3 bureaucratized chemistry | 12:42 |
| kanzure | (to be fair, again, that quote isn't really much of a bureaucratic mess) | 12:42 |
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| ENKI-][ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boj8VYzDAy8&playnext_from=TL&videos=XskuFiMy8Mw | 13:05 |
| kanzure | http://blog.hackerspaces.org/2010/05/17/open-research-network-for-hackerspaces/ | 13:10 |
| kanzure | enki's link was on texting/tweeting on youtube. | 13:10 |
| * kanzure dislikes links that aren't self-descriptive.. or without some text describing what's going on :P | 13:11 | |
| kanzure | i wonder why i haven't heard about http://opensciny.com/ much | 13:11 |
| kanzure | hm http://curetogether.com/blog/about/team/ alexandra carmichael has been showing up in some weird places | 13:13 |
| kanzure | institute for the future, curetogether, betterhumans, diybio, biocurious, kickstarter, and open source medicine | 13:13 |
| fenn | seems all pretty related to me | 13:14 |
| fenn | i heard about curetogether from alexandra at qs | 13:14 |
| kanzure | uh wait | 13:17 |
| kanzure | what's melanie swan doing on there | 13:17 |
| kanzure | i dunno who gets around more.. melanie or todd? | 13:17 |
| genehacker | didn't biocurious say they were doing SNP stuff? | 13:18 |
| kanzure | they mentioned some plans | 13:18 |
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| kanzure | wonder what i was thinking when i wrote this line: auction.owner = FacebookUser.objects.all()[0] | 14:02 |
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| bdesk | you were probably thinking to scam some facebook users | 14:06 |
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| kanzure | ok, this is just too absurd | 14:52 |
| kanzure | http://uswaretech.com/blog/2009/02/understanding-datetime-tzinfo-timedelta-timezone-conversions-python/ | 14:52 |
| kanzure | in order to attach a timezone object to a datetime object, python wants you to define a class called 'GMT5' (for instance) | 14:53 |
| kanzure | am i the only one who thinks this is absurd? | 14:53 |
| kanzure | 'python's dateutil.parser.parse is a useful function for parsing tz-aware strings.' well that's nice i guess | 14:54 |
| kanzure | and there's http://pytz.sourceforge.net/ for some predefined timezones.. ugh. | 14:55 |
| kanzure | "'UTC' is Universal Time, also known as Greenwich Mean Time or GMT in the United Kingdom. " | 15:00 |
| kanzure | >>> utc is pytz.timezone('GMT') | 15:00 |
| kanzure | False | 15:00 |
| bdesk | everyone should use UTC military time with no daylight savings. | 15:06 |
| Utopiah | POSIX time | 15:08 |
| bdesk | seconds since midnight jan 1 1970? | 15:08 |
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| fenn | how not to do linear regression: http://ploticus.sourceforge.net/gallery/clickmap_area2.gif | 15:20 |
| fenn | kanzure why aren't you just using the django datetime field? | 15:21 |
| kanzure | fenn: when users type in a datetime on the site (or whatever), it's in their timezone | 15:21 |
| kanzure | and then i have to convert it to some timezone on the server, and then back out to each user's respective timezone | 15:22 |
| fenn | also, i think GMT and UTC are different, something about leap seconds | 15:22 |
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| kanzure | but as it happens, i only have the user's GMT offset | 15:22 |
| kanzure | i do have their city name.. maybe there's a table/dictionary i can use to convert from a city location geocoord thing to a timezone | 15:23 |
| kanzure | *ugh* | 15:23 |
| kanzure | or i could just ask the user to pick from a list of timezones i provide.. hm.. | 15:24 |
| kanzure | haha len(pytz.common_timezones) is 393 | 15:25 |
| kanzure | ooh ooh | 15:27 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Fb:time | 15:27 |
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| kanzure | well that just made my last few hours of timezone bullshitting totally irrelevant and a waste. | 15:30 |
| fenn | i guess saying "you're doing it wrong" isn't helpful | 15:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: as long as i'm writing a facebook app, i'm /always/ doin it wrong | 15:32 |
| fenn | why are you writing a facebook app? | 15:32 |
| kanzure | something about carbon | 15:32 |
| fenn | are you even on facebook? | 15:32 |
| kanzure | yes :( | 15:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: here's a description: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2010/d1s1-3-andrew-hessel.html | 15:33 |
| kanzure | the deal is that if i get this last bit of code written, and we present it to Conoco Phillips et al., i get $20k | 15:33 |
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| fenn | that's not a bad deal, assuming you actually get paid | 15:34 |
| * kanzure nods | 15:34 | |
| nsh | wait what | 15:35 |
| nsh | you're writing a facebook app, for money? | 15:35 |
| kanzure | yes, why? | 15:36 |
| fenn | next thing you know, he'll be writing iphone apps, o wait | 15:36 |
| kanzure | i know, i know, i'm a whore | 15:36 |
| nsh | what does the app do? | 15:36 |
| kanzure | nsh: trades carbon credits | 15:36 |
| nsh | heh | 15:36 |
| kanzure | http://apps.facebook.com/carbon_bay/ | 15:36 |
| kanzure | it's not quite working yet, go easy on me ;) | 15:37 |
| kanzure | i've spent way too much time making sure it doesn't look like ass | 15:37 |
| nsh | but, things are supposed to look like ass until they work right | 15:38 |
| bdesk | not if you want people to give you money | 15:38 |
| kanzure | not if you're full of shit | 15:38 |
| kanzure | same thing | 15:38 |
| nsh | hmm | 15:38 |
| nsh | what are you hosting on? | 15:38 |
| kanzure | tubputer | 15:38 |
| nsh | is that like, a thing? | 15:39 |
| bdesk | i would not click on it. | 15:39 |
| kanzure | that's actually fenn's computer in a tub | 15:39 |
| kanzure | but no, i'm not using that | 15:39 |
| kanzure | (i thought fenn would laugh) | 15:39 |
| nsh | heh :) | 15:39 |
| kanzure | nsh: amazon ec2 | 15:39 |
| * nsh nods | 15:40 | |
| nsh | what web framework? | 15:40 |
| kanzure | django | 15:40 |
| nsh | cool | 15:40 |
| kanzure | php programmers swarm around facebook for some reason | 15:41 |
| kanzure | not sure why.. | 15:41 |
| nsh | because it's php mecca | 15:41 |
| nsh | patches welcome, btw? | 15:41 |
| kanzure | patches welcome for what? | 15:41 |
| nsh | as in, can i look at your code | 15:41 |
| bdesk | nsh: not you too | 15:41 |
| * nsh doesn't touch php, if that's what you're implying, bdesk | 15:42 | |
| fenn | kanzure: so you want an experienced excited facebook app designer hookup? | 15:42 |
| kanzure | nsh: no, i'm too embarrased by this | 15:42 |
| nsh | meh | 15:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: uh, maybe.. it's not xp_prg is it? | 15:42 |
| fenn | no, someone i met at the dojo | 15:42 |
| kanzure | sure | 15:42 |
| kanzure | i'm willing to pay | 15:42 |
| kanzure | i was trying to find someone who does facebook apps, in particular CSS | 15:42 |
| kanzure | but apparently people only do CSS in wysiwyg editors these days | 15:43 |
| nsh | not sure how much leeway there is for CSS in facebook apps, unless you're going for the iframe approach | 15:43 |
| kanzure | there's pretty good leeway. check out the link to the facebook app. | 15:43 |
| nsh | can you even use CSS with fbml? | 15:43 |
| kanzure | yes | 15:43 |
| nsh | oh, ok | 15:44 |
| kanzure | for those of us who don't use facebook | 15:44 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/screenshots/2010-06-18_carbon_bay.png | 15:44 |
| kanzure | ^screenshot | 15:44 |
| kanzure | although it's improved slightly since then | 15:44 |
| nsh | hmm | 15:45 |
| bdesk | facebook is like a new internet, where the internet always knows who you are. | 15:45 |
| nsh | and looks through your pockets when you hang your jacket up | 15:46 |
| nsh | btw | 15:46 |
| nsh | how sensitive would you say a root certificate authority private key is? | 15:47 |
| ENKI-][ | i'm not entirely sure who i am. if facebook knows better than i do, perhaps that just means facebook guessed wrong | 15:47 |
| nsh | say, Go Daddy Inc.'s | 15:47 |
| bdesk | "The root certificate is usually made trustworthy by some mechanism other than a certificate, such as by secure physical distribution." | 15:48 |
| kanzure | translation: saddle up, we're going to the mustache store | 15:49 |
| * nsh smiles | 15:49 | |
| kanzure | ENKI-][: have you seen http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt ? it might pique your interests | 15:50 |
| fenn | ooh i wanna be that guy, who gets to carry the Very Important Briefcase containing a post it note with some numbers scribbled on it | 15:51 |
| kanzure | oh hm the last update date was 2010-06-16 .. but just uploaded a new version a sec ago (so refresh if it matters) | 15:51 |
| kanzure | file just passed the 1000 kb mark | 15:52 |
| fenn | looks exactly the same | 15:52 |
| kanzure | maybe you loaded it as i uploaded | 15:53 |
| kanzure | it should go to 2010-07-06 now | 15:53 |
| fenn | "Last year, I got these 5 oil sands company to bring 30 genetic engineers, their advisors, Rob Carlson, and a diybio representative, to go up to the oil sands, look at the real on the ground problems, " did anything ever make it to the list? | 15:55 |
| fenn | i dont remember that at all | 15:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: no, nothing made it to the list | 15:55 |
| kanzure | nothing about that, i mean | 15:56 |
| kanzure | i didn't know about it either until he mentioned it during his talk | 15:56 |
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| kanzure | the diybio representative was jason bobe | 15:56 |
| fenn | not a very good representative | 15:56 |
| kanzure | no | 15:56 |
| kanzure | i think it was u of alberta? | 15:56 |
| kanzure | he got the oil sands companies to sponsor an igem team | 15:56 |
| kanzure | so whichever one has a page on openwetware plastered with oil company banners and logos | 15:57 |
| nsh | yay, oil sands | 15:57 |
| ENKI-][ | kanzure: i'll take a look at it | 15:59 |
| kanzure | simpler explanation: their trip up to the oil sands was so that they could convince the oil companies to sponsor them | 15:59 |
| kanzure | it's silly to assume it was two separate events | 15:59 |
| fenn | god forbid they actually go up there to solve a real world problem for the sake of saving the planet or something | 16:00 |
| nsh | hmm | 16:03 |
| kanzure | so i dunno if anyone has noticed | 16:09 |
| kanzure | but andrew has really been pushing Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room | 16:09 |
| fenn | what does that mean? | 16:09 |
| kanzure | as if we should be copying their schemes and strategies | 16:09 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smartest_Guys_in_the_Room#Synopsis | 16:11 |
| fenn | ah good, wikinotes :P | 16:11 |
| kanzure | "Two years later, however, Enron became embroiled in scandal when two oil traders began betting on the oil markets, resulting in consistent and suspiciously high profits for the company" | 16:11 |
| kanzure | heh "Pai was also notorious for using money from Enron shareholders to feed his obsessive habit of visiting strip clubs, " | 16:12 |
| kanzure | "and for allegedly inviting strippers into his office and onto the Enron trading floor. " | 16:13 |
| kanzure | "Pai abruptly resigned from EES with $250 million, soon after selling his stock." | 16:13 |
| fenn | smartest guy in the room | 16:13 |
| kanzure | that article sucked | 16:15 |
| kanzure | this is probably better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal | 16:15 |
| kanzure | "In September 2008, a $7.2-billion settlement from a $40-billion lawsuit, was reached on behalf of the shareholders. The settlement was distributed among the lead plaintiff, University of California (UC), and 1.5 million individuals and groups. UC's law firm Coughlin Stoia Geller Rudman and Robbins, received $688 million in fees, the highest in a U.S. securities fraud case." | 16:19 |
| kanzure | that's quite a lawsuit | 16:21 |
| kanzure | well, nevermind. i recall something more clever going at enron based on valuations of different energy markets, but that doesn't seem to be the case | 16:22 |
| fenn | kanzure: did you know about the django manage.py dumpdata and loaddata? and that it dumps/loads yaml if you so desire | 16:28 |
| fenn | for small sites you could just do a complete dump on every change, or maybe there's some better way to split it up than by app | 16:30 |
| fenn | i dont think there's a knife in this entire building | 16:32 |
| kanzure | why would you want a dump on every change? | 16:34 |
| kanzure | i guess you mean on a change to the model | 16:34 |
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| fenn | so you have history in revision control, not some database binary blob | 16:38 |
| kanzure | got it | 16:38 |
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| kanzure | http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2010/06/16/bringing-biohacking-to-the-masses/ | 17:06 |
| kanzure | does anyone have a copy of "biohacking - an overview" by Chris Seidel? | 17:07 |
| cluckj | neato | 17:07 |
| kanzure | some interest in diybio from beijing | 17:08 |
| kanzure | http://2009.igem.org/Team:PKU_Beijing/Human/Overview | 17:08 |
| cluckj | no, I don't have a copy | 17:08 |
| cluckj | if you find one, let me know :) | 17:08 |
| kanzure | diybio survey thingy? http://2009.igem.org/Team:PKU_Beijing/Human/Survey | 17:10 |
| kanzure | "In order to evaluate the probability of conducting DIYbio experiments in China, we have launched a survey to investigate the availability of necessary experimental materials to DIY at home. By analyzing the results, we expect to propose some instructive advices and reach a simple conclusion. " | 17:11 |
| kanzure | "We conducted a sampling survey by telephone to inquire into 17 biotech firms about their provision for orderers." | 17:11 |
| kanzure | "We asked these companies to deliver the goods which they have to a team member's home in a community in Beijing." | 17:11 |
| kanzure | cool a lot of the orders were accepted | 17:11 |
| cluckj | nice | 17:12 |
| kanzure | "Other companies still took up our order as we stated our "DIY at home" idea, although some of them hesitated a little. " | 17:12 |
| kanzure | "Fig4. The distribution of Ethidium Bromide order acceptance rate." eek | 17:12 |
| kanzure | what worries me more is that they would *want* to buy ethidium bromide | 17:12 |
| kanzure | what also worries me is that they were using this study to say that there should be *more* regulation | 17:13 |
| cluckj | oi | 17:13 |
| kanzure | articles they were referencing: http://2009.igem.org/Team:PKU_Beijing/Human/Reference | 17:13 |
| * kanzure reads the discover magazine blog article now | 17:13 | |
| kanzure | oh boy, tito jankowski as a public figure of open source? | 17:14 |
| cluckj | my whole schtick is that there doesn't need to be regulation | 17:14 |
| cluckj | D: | 17:14 |
| kanzure | "With a prototype already up and running, they hope to have a near-final version completed by the fall." | 17:14 |
| kanzure | "From the project description, it's clear that these bioentrepreneurs hope to capitalize on..." | 17:15 |
| kanzure | that says it enough | 17:15 |
| cluckj | "A supply rating according categories and safety should be established for individual clients, safer materials like kits and nucleases may be permitted to free trade, while hazardous materials like ethidium bromide and competent cells from various strains should be strictly controlled by the government." | 17:15 |
| cluckj | I like the first part of that | 17:15 |
| kanzure | "Could this project or other open source biology initiatives, like BioBricks, help produce the Bill Gates or Steve Jobs of the synthetic biology world?" | 17:15 |
| kanzure | there are so many things wrong with that question | 17:15 |
| kanzure | i don't even know where to begin | 17:15 |
| cluckj | lol | 17:16 |
| cluckj | I think it's just media hype | 17:16 |
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| kanzure | first, the most obvious one: bill gates and steve jobs never did "open source" | 17:16 |
| kanzure | second: biobricks is making a commendable effort to have an open standard and get around patent litigation issues for biobricks, but i dunno if it's actually open source in the traditional sense | 17:17 |
| kanzure | (#2 is a minor nitpick) | 17:17 |
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| kanzure | third: do you really /want/ a steve jobs of synthetic biology? | 17:17 |
| cluckj | o_o | 17:18 |
| cluckj | what would that even look like | 17:18 |
| lepton | do not want! | 17:18 |
| lepton | :::goes back to editing hal files::: | 17:18 |
| kanzure | fourth: implying- even through a convoluted article- that josh perfetto and tito jankowski are the next bill gates and steve jobs, is totally retarded | 17:18 |
| kanzure | the sheer level of hype is ridiculous | 17:19 |
| kanzure | "rom the project description, it's clear that these bioentrepreneurs hope to capitalize on the recent flurry of interest in synthetic biology sparked by Craig Venter's synthesis of an artificial genome and other likeminded endeavors." | 17:20 |
| cluckj | lol | 17:20 |
| kanzure | comparing a thermocycler to an artificial chromosome? really? | 17:20 |
| cluckj | dude....breathe...... | 17:20 |
| ENKI-][ | hm | 17:21 |
| ENKI-][ | the steve jobs of synthetic biology would have either a much greater or much lesser likelyhood of major health problems | 17:21 |
| ENKI-][ | he probably wouldn't be quite as bald. that's more of a trivial problem | 17:22 |
| genehacker | why wouldn't they be bald? | 17:22 |
| uniqanomaly | PR | 17:22 |
| genehacker | being bald makes it easier to put the electrodes on | 17:22 |
| uniqanomaly | ;) | 17:22 |
| ENKI-][ | oh, there's that i guess | 17:23 |
| ENKI-][ | maybe he would be balder | 17:23 |
| ENKI-][ | he would probably miss press conferences due to surgery even more often than the original, though | 17:23 |
| uniqanomaly | and lots of cranial implants | 17:25 |
| uniqanomaly | oh, sorry that's borg | 17:25 |
| uniqanomaly | nvm | 17:25 |
| ENKI-][ | laser eyes | 17:25 |
| uniqanomaly | ;) | 17:25 |
| ENKI-][ | http://hackaday.com/2009/10/27/head-mounted-computer-with-spit-bailing-wire/ <-- it occurs to me that this is the best project i've seen on hackaday in a while | 17:26 |
| genehacker | does anyone know of any limits on how fast PCR can be? | 17:26 |
| ENKI-][ | insomuch as i could build it if i could afford the parts, and it would actually be useful | 17:26 |
| kanzure | genehacker: you can use a laser and do it in under a minute | 17:26 |
| genehacker | on a small sample? | 17:27 |
| cluckj | kanzure, seriously? | 17:27 |
| kanzure | cluckj: yes | 17:27 |
| kanzure | one sec | 17:27 |
| genehacker | why even use a laser when you can use a serpentine microfluidic channel? | 17:27 |
| genehacker | I want to try some microfluidics | 17:27 |
| genehacker | some useful microfluidics and serpentine PCR chips look pretty easy | 17:28 |
| kanzure | cluckj: http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/PCR%20-%20Nanodroplet%20real-time%20PCR%20system%20with%20laser%20assisted%20heating.pdf | 17:28 |
| kanzure | also: http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/Petri%20dish%20PCR%20-%20laser-heated%20reactions%20in%20nanoliter%20droplet%20arrays.pdf | 17:28 |
| cluckj | sweet, thanks | 17:28 |
| cluckj | ooo, now I see why you're hot for microfluidics | 17:29 |
| cluckj | if you can do PCR with a laser, you can just run it through a microfluidic array | 17:30 |
| kanzure | cluckj: this video should explain why (it's ridiculously short): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HrRuaLFGmY | 17:30 |
| cluckj | yeah | 17:30 |
| kanzure | here's one of the PCR-on-a-lab-on-a-chip dealies: http://designfiles.org/papers/microfluidics/gkm389%20Miniaturized%20PCR%20chips%20for%20nucleic%20acid%20amplification%20and%20analysislatest%20advances%20and%20future%20trends.pdf | 17:30 |
| kanzure | page 3 has a diagram on the upper right | 17:31 |
| cluckj | cool | 17:32 |
| cluckj | hah, my stellarium bug is high priority now | 17:32 |
| kanzure | at least the hype machine is bringing in some money. sigh. | 17:33 |
| * kanzure just updated http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F | 17:33 | |
| cluckj | o_o | 17:34 |
| cluckj | have you ever come across any academic articles on diy bio? | 17:35 |
| kanzure | yes | 17:35 |
| cluckj | (I haven't, that's why I'm asking) | 17:35 |
| kanzure | some were published in nature | 17:35 |
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| kanzure | hrm i wonder if i have the citations laying around | 17:36 |
| cluckj | I think I have the ones published in science/nature | 17:36 |
| kanzure | there was one by markus schmidt | 17:37 |
| kanzure | but it might have been more about synthetic biology and regulations and only mentioned diybio in a footnote or something | 17:37 |
| cluckj | diffusion of syn bio? | 17:37 |
| kanzure | maybe.. but also markus' german article | 17:37 |
| kanzure | http://www.markusschmidt.eu/pdf/09_12_profil_bio_bastler.pdf | 17:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article5275006/Gen-Manipulation-am-heimischen-Kuechentisch.html?print=yes#reqdrucken | 17:39 |
| cluckj | word, thanks | 17:39 |
| kanzure | either one or both might just be a news article | 17:39 |
| cluckj | I think there was a paul rabinow article somewhere | 17:39 |
| kanzure | i'm debating whether or not to post some of the recent news article to the diybio mailing list | 17:40 |
| cluckj | hrm | 17:40 |
| cluckj | might be like kicking a beehive | 17:40 |
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| kanzure | why oh why did i offer to do manufacturing of openpcr parts | 17:45 |
| cluckj | so you can ensure it's openness? | 17:47 |
| kanzure | because i'm a moron, is more like it | 17:48 |
| cluckj | geez | 17:48 |
| cluckj | its | 17:48 |
| kanzure | cluckj: i don't think you're allergic to hype the same way i am. | 17:48 |
| kanzure | oh, you were commenting about your grammar | 17:48 |
| cluckj | yeah | 17:48 |
| cluckj | or lack thereof :x | 17:49 |
| cluckj | and I'm not allergic to hype in the same way you are :) | 17:49 |
| cluckj | I'm a little allergic to reporters | 17:50 |
| cluckj | I really need to go to the oss | 17:54 |
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| kanzure | "The project I was working on at the time (Open hardware gel electrophoresis) required crazy tolerances, ~0.001?" | 18:03 |
| kanzure | wut | 18:03 |
| kanzure | "With open hardware for biotech, we're making new and better tools for a completely new type of scientist. Sketching in a notebook, and Google sketchup and cardboard and foam board. Sketchup is awesome because it's fairly straightforward to get into an Illustrator file to send to Ponoko." | 18:04 |
| kanzure | fuck | 18:04 |
| kanzure | not more google sketchup :/ | 18:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: actually, i have an idea | 18:05 |
| kanzure | as an attempt to promote some actual "open source" stuff going on in the community | 18:06 |
| kanzure | how about i set up a .git repository and commit some openscad files into it | 18:06 |
| kanzure | and then have someone else contribute changes back to it, or a patch | 18:06 |
| kanzure | and make a big public stink about it | 18:06 |
| kanzure | "THIS is what you should be doing" | 18:06 |
| kanzure | openscad because it's a text-based format, not because it's useful | 18:06 |
| cluckj | lead by example? | 18:07 |
| cluckj | who's doing diy bio in ann arbor? | 18:11 |
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| kanzure | cluckj: Johnny Graves? | 18:27 |
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| kanzure | "Look about you Pinky: the jungle. Poisonous plants, blood-thirsty carnevors, the stench of decay permeating the air." | 19:23 |
| kanzure | "Actually, I rather of like it. Smells just like an air-wick solid. Narf." | 19:23 |
| kanzure | "We must find a way home. I got it! We'll construct a molecular scrambling teleportation device that will beam us back to the lab. YES! Now, all we need are a few simple components: an atom smasher, some stray rods of strontium-90, a 3/16 s | 19:24 |
| kanzure | ocket wrench..." | 19:24 |
| kanzure | "Um, there's a big pile of dung under that tree." | 19:24 |
| kanzure | "DUNG! Of course. With dung, I could make a ... huge... dung... uh, monorail?" | 19:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: yeah i was going to make some pcr drawing in dxf format (2d) or svg (they're both equally terrible for reading diffs) | 19:27 |
| kanzure | what do you think would work better? svg or openscad for that? | 19:27 |
| fenn | problem with openscad is you can't do anything with it but reprap or cnc mill from solid blocks (if you have cam software that can handle STL; i don't) | 19:27 |
| kanzure | from an adoption standpoint | 19:27 |
| kanzure | right | 19:27 |
| kanzure | with svg, you can get other people to use it (inkscape) | 19:28 |
| kanzure | with openscad, you can demonstrate diff on txt | 19:28 |
| kanzure | i wonder if there's an something-to-svg language thingy | 19:28 |
| kanzure | i guess it could be something done in python using cairo? | 19:28 |
| shepazu | kanzure: what specific features would you need for diffs in SVG? | 19:28 |
| fenn | i think dxf is actually better for this kind of thing | 19:28 |
| kanzure | fenn: shepazu is our resident svg expert, fyi | 19:28 |
| fenn | anyway there's software to convert between dxf/svg | 19:28 |
| fenn | shepazu: mostly just keep the ordering the same in the file | 19:28 |
| * shepazu doesn't know what that means | 19:29 | |
| kanzure | the order of the elements in the .svg file | 19:29 |
| shepazu | right, but how does that help diffs? | 19:30 |
| kanzure | "Look up, Brain! A mango!" "Mango? YES. We'll build a platform, uh, if only we had some extruded aluminum t | 19:30 |
| fenn | the xml... keep the element on the same line it was on in the input file (before you edited it) | 19:30 |
| kanzure | o make scaffold with; if only we had some steel to make an aluminum extruder, if only we had a smelting plant to make steel.." | 19:30 |
| fenn | i swear these IT guys must have a vendetta against me or something | 19:30 |
| AJollyLife | i want a mango :( | 19:30 |
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| shepazu | how is DXF better than SVG here? | 19:31 |
| fenn | it has circles, and drawing programs that do stuff like add dimensions and snap to intersection | 19:31 |
| fenn | and add fillet | 19:31 |
| shepazu | that's authoring-tool stuff, not format stuff | 19:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: i think that showing off the 'diff' is more important to getting our point across | 19:32 |
| fenn | kanzure: honestly nobody will care, they will just think 'oh gawd kanzure is having a hissy fit again' | 19:32 |
| kanzure | but but but | 19:32 |
| kanzure | actually i was thinking of something staged | 19:32 |
| fenn | having code to run an arduino with a stupid power resistor on an aluminum block is like 2 hours of coding | 19:32 |
| kanzure | (1) i post a .git of some weird design | 19:32 |
| kanzure | (2) someone (you) posts a link to a .git with the updated version | 19:33 |
| kanzure | "oh look! progress!" | 19:33 |
| kanzure | "huh? why is this interesting?" "welll..." | 19:33 |
| fenn | yeah good luck with that | 19:33 |
| kanzure | you don't think so? hrm | 19:34 |
| kanzure | davidad and i were talking tonight | 19:34 |
| kanzure | he's over at singularity university | 19:34 |
| kanzure | they have 80 grad students this year | 19:34 |
| kanzure | they divide them up into "teams" for releasing a project at the end of their stay | 19:34 |
| kanzure | he's on a team with 19 other people | 19:34 |
| kanzure | only one of them (other than him) knows about revision control | 19:34 |
| fenn | not surprising | 19:39 |
| fenn | 10% is about average for science/engineering types, throw in 50% business people | 19:39 |
| kanzure | i'm somewhat surprised that you're against the idea of distributing some open source hardware via git :P | 19:40 |
| kanzure | i guess there's really not much out there that can be used under revision control | 19:40 |
| kanzure | since it's all .pdf and .stl | 19:40 |
| kanzure | but you're claiming it's also pointless to bother showing it in use? | 19:40 |
| AJollyLife | fenn: really, only 10% of science/engineering types know about revision control? | 19:41 |
| kanzure | http://diybio.org/2008/07/09/diybio-in-5-minutes-oreilly-ignite-boston-2008/ | 19:44 |
| kanzure | "I'm a biotech patent attorney, and would be happy to answer questions about how to protect and possibly patent new ideas your group comes up with. It's important to file a preliminary patent application before disseminating information about a new concept to the public, and this is an integral part of the process of bringing a potentially important new development in biotech/biopharm to development. Let me know if you'd like to talk fu | 19:44 |
| kanzure | >_> | 19:44 |
| AJollyLife | that would seem to go against the whole open source principle | 19:45 |
| kanzure | it sounds pretty scary to me | 19:45 |
| kanzure | i hold that there is not a single "open source" diybio project out there at the moment | 19:45 |
| kanzure | wait, am i right? | 19:45 |
| kanzure | i think so | 19:45 |
| cluckj | :\ | 19:51 |
| kanzure | http://github.com/100ideas/ucam i don't see licensing information here | 19:51 |
| cluckj | it's derivative from two open source projects, but I don't think that means anything | 19:53 |
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| kanzure | "i was formerly director of intellectual property at harvard university" | 20:20 |
| kanzure | i think leslie meant the entire university | 20:20 |
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| fenn | http://openpcr.org/build-yours/ | 20:39 |
| fenn | i think it speaks for itself | 20:39 |
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| kanzure | "Make yours | 20:42 |
| kanzure | Get involved! | 20:42 |
| kanzure | If you want detailed specs, sign up as a donor to OpenPCR. For just $32 you get behind the scenes months before anyone else with access to photos, design documents, and software for the OpenPCR project. http://openpcr.org/kickstarter" | 20:42 |
| kanzure | you know, they should make up their mind | 20:42 |
| Bruns | biotech? | 20:42 |
| kanzure | "Thanks for your note! We send out releases to our supporters on Kickstarter. We will be releasing everything to the public in late September. We're focused on executing our planned design and will begin supporting developers after we get to that point." | 20:42 |
| kanzure | if they sell openpcr and include schematics, that's fine | 20:42 |
| kanzure | but if they con people into supporting an open source project that only supporters get access to | 20:43 |
| kanzure | that's something different. | 20:43 |
| kanzure | Bruns: hey | 20:43 |
| kanzure | Bruns: i was wondering if you could do something for me | 20:43 |
| Bruns | yeah sure | 20:43 |
| kanzure | oh wait. i just remembered what it was | 20:43 |
| kanzure | it's pretty lame | 20:43 |
| kanzure | what do you think the potential is for this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nHKYWc-rnY | 20:44 |
| Bruns | oh | 20:44 |
| Bruns | ok | 20:44 |
| Bruns | LOL | 20:44 |
| Bruns | I would say if it reaches above 80% | 20:44 |
| kanzure | it was on http://000chan.org/b/res/821.html | 20:44 |
| Bruns | then we might get critical mass | 20:44 |
| kanzure | keep watching | 20:44 |
| Bruns | kanzure: are you lurking 000chan now? | 20:44 |
| kanzure | uhh uhh | 20:44 |
| kanzure | no of course not | 20:45 |
| Bruns | mmmmmhhhmmmm | 20:45 |
| Bruns | I accidentally broke the board, otherwise the video would be embeded | 20:45 |
| Bruns | i have to fix those features next time I care | 20:45 |
| Bruns | So what is this OpenPCR about? | 20:46 |
| kanzure | two guys getting lots of media hype over an open source project that isn't actually open source | 20:46 |
| Bruns | lol | 20:46 |
| Bruns | What is the open source? | 20:46 |
| kanzure | what? | 20:46 |
| AJollyLife | kanzure: but it has Open in the name! | 20:47 |
| kanzure | OH MAI GAWD | 20:47 |
| AJollyLife | clearly its open. | 20:47 |
| Bruns | kanzure: http://000chan.org/fr/res/346.html | 20:47 |
| kanzure | is /fr for /france? | 20:47 |
| Bruns | lolno | 20:48 |
| Bruns | fr=fucking rage | 20:48 |
| Bruns | but nice trollan | 20:48 |
| Bruns | So what does this open source that is not open source do? something about genome at home from what I read | 20:49 |
| kanzure | what? it doesn't do anything except get these two people media attention | 20:49 |
| fenn | and $10k cold hard casssssh | 20:50 |
| kanzure | 4chan should flood kickstarter with these fake projects | 20:50 |
| fenn | but whatever, it's not like i'm jealous or anything | 20:50 |
| kanzure | every possible permutation | 20:50 |
| Bruns | I could get a lot worse people than 4chan | 20:50 |
| kanzure | OpenOligoSynthesizer | 20:50 |
| Bruns | 4chan really isn't good for much of anything anymore :/ | 20:50 |
| kanzure | OpenHPLC | 20:50 |
| kanzure | OpenMassSpec | 20:51 |
| fenn | open toothbrush holder! help us reach our goal of $10k and we'll share crayon drawings on a napkin! | 20:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: you should do it | 20:51 |
| kanzure | wait, is there enough pent up rage about kickstarter/diybio yet? | 20:51 |
| fenn | only in here | 20:51 |
| Bruns | You all don't like diybio? | 20:51 |
| fenn | everybody else is getting rich | 20:51 |
| kanzure | Bruns: i like diybio a lot! | 20:51 |
| AJollyLife | id hardly say 10k is rich | 20:51 |
| kanzure | i've been involved with the community since the beginning | 20:51 |
| kanzure | AJollyLife: fenn lived on $10k for 4 years | 20:52 |
| kanzure | or something? | 20:52 |
| Bruns | Then who is mad at diybio? | 20:52 |
| AJollyLife | yes, but that doesnt == rich | 20:52 |
| kanzure | Bruns: it's not that.. uh | 20:52 |
| kanzure | Bruns: it's just a lot of people who don't seem to know what they are doing | 20:52 |
| kanzure | and then they say, "it's open source!" but then where are the files? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | and the repositories? | 20:52 |
| Bruns | Also kanzure that jellyfish idea that everyone thinks is stupid my friend and I are doing, I am in contact with a pet store who is looking for the jellyfish for me | 20:52 |
| kanzure | and the OSI-compatible license or fuck any sort of license? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | who thought it was stupid? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | raising a jellyfish is fine, imho | 20:52 |
| Bruns | lol, not for raising a jellyfish | 20:53 |
| AJollyLife | how do jellyfish taste? | 20:53 |
| kanzure | Bruns: take a look at all this hype: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F | 20:53 |
| Bruns | genome sequencing on it and then cultivating the isolated gene and trying to purify it over a series of mutations to have the same effect on other animals | 20:53 |
| kanzure | Bruns: what i'm upset about is the disparity between the "hype" people (the people who hype it up) and the fact that they aren't really doing anything | 20:53 |
| kanzure | but really, check the link | 20:53 |
| kanzure | and look. | 20:53 |
| AJollyLife | thats a lot of media | 20:54 |
| Bruns | lol | 20:54 |
| kanzure | these are articles in the NY Times, SF Chronicle, BBC, O'Reilly Radar, Hackaday, Hacker News, Wired, Gourmet Magazine (wtf), The Guardian, Make Magazine, .. | 20:54 |
| Bruns | It is a good thing in a way, even though you get the 20/80 effect | 20:54 |
| kanzure | we don't even get 20% | 20:54 |
| kanzure | we get 0% | 20:54 |
| Bruns | the more people you get the higher that 20% will get | 20:54 |
| kanzure | uh | 20:55 |
| kanzure | in theory.. | 20:55 |
| Bruns | lol | 20:55 |
| Bruns | Well at any rate, I am trying to get people interested in wanting to do this project with my friend and I | 20:56 |
| Bruns | Seems kinda hard, though | 20:56 |
| kanzure | Bruns: you still haven't even identified what the project is | 20:57 |
| kanzure | you just keep mentioning a jellyfish and some articles about how it reverts in its life cycle every once in a while.. | 20:57 |
| Bruns | oh lol | 20:57 |
| Bruns | I kinda ramble... i guess | 20:57 |
| Bruns | Well we are planning on doing comparative sequencing..then over a series mutating and purifying the gene etc. | 20:59 |
| Bruns | I am bad at explaining things :/ | 20:59 |
| Bruns | I will shut up now...:/ | 21:01 |
| kanzure | fenn: i wonder what's next. ReallyOpenPCR | 21:01 |
| kanzure | ReallyDIYbio | 21:02 |
| kanzure | heh | 21:02 |
| kanzure | ActualHardware oh wait | 21:02 |
| Bruns | lul | 21:02 |
| kanzure | (to be fair, dave actually gets stuff done) | 21:02 |
| kanzure | Bruns: http://actualhardware.com/ is his site | 21:02 |
| Bruns | they make recycling signs out of texas? | 21:02 |
| Bruns | and ride bikes... | 21:02 |
| Bruns | kanzure ^ | 21:03 |
| kanzure | custom bike part manufacturing | 21:04 |
| Bruns | So what does that have to do with texas, trees, or even illegal immigration? | 21:05 |
| kanzure | based in texas | 21:05 |
| Bruns | they have a secret base full of illegal immigrants making cheap bikes out of recycled texas? | 21:06 |
| Bruns | Is that it? | 21:06 |
| kanzure | YES | 21:06 |
| kanzure | Bruns: are you thinking what i'm thinking? | 21:06 |
| Bruns | Yes | 21:06 |
| kanzure | ok good | 21:06 |
| Bruns | I love playing with my wiiner | 21:08 |
| Bruns | I just hate it when my arms get tired... | 21:08 |
| AJollyLife | work out more | 21:09 |
| kanzure | or just pay me a few thousand bucks on kickstarter for myostatin inhibitors | 21:09 |
| Bruns | Playing with my wiiner is my workout | 21:09 |
| kanzure | Bruns: we call that jelqing | 21:09 |
| AJollyLife | i thought that was cost prohibitive at this point | 21:09 |
| AJollyLife | (for myostatin inhibitors) | 21:10 |
| kanzure | AJollyLife: jelqing or myostatin? | 21:10 |
| kanzure | no | 21:10 |
| Bruns | How about you both pay me backing all the shit I will do with my jellyfish | 21:10 |
| kanzure | i actually have enough money at the moment | 21:10 |
| AJollyLife | hm. last i looked at it was 2 years ago | 21:10 |
| kanzure | i was going to do it via some gene hacking on plants | 21:10 |
| kanzure | i just need motivation to work on it and/or more time | 21:10 |
| Bruns | kanzure | 21:11 |
| Bruns | how about you look at making animals preform mitosis....then I will give motivation | 21:11 |
| kanzure | that message made no sense | 21:11 |
| kanzure | do you mean you want me to make a bacteria culture? | 21:12 |
| genehacker | jellyfish? | 21:12 |
| genehacker | are you trying to get the GFP gene? | 21:12 |
| Bruns | JELLYFISH EVERYWHERE! | 21:12 |
| kanzure | uh oh clash of the chan nerds | 21:12 |
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| Bruns | that is chantard, good sir | 21:12 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: i blame you for this | 21:12 |
| kanzure | and the rest of the goons | 21:13 |
| genehacker | there's a much easier way to get GFP, pet stores already sell GFP fish | 21:13 |
| genehacker | or are you trying to cultivate jelly fish? | 21:13 |
| Bruns | lol no | 21:14 |
| Bruns | we arent trying to get GFP fish | 21:14 |
| Bruns | >cultivate jellyfish | 21:14 |
| kanzure | genehacker: read the messages by 'brunsgenus' here: http://gnusha.org/logs/2010-07-03.log | 21:14 |
| kanzure | to see what he's up to | 21:14 |
| Bruns | omgz | 21:14 |
| Bruns | LOGS ON MEH | 21:14 |
| Bruns | no no | 21:14 |
| Bruns | :( | 21:14 |
| Bruns | I hate logs | 21:14 |
| kanzure | Bruns: but you get 20 MB of other goodies from in here :) | 21:15 |
| Bruns | NU | 21:15 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/logs/ | 21:15 |
| Bruns | I don wan gudies | 21:15 |
| Bruns | You keep them ALL D: | 21:15 |
| AJollyLife | Bruns: how old are you? | 21:16 |
| Bruns | 12 | 21:16 |
| kanzure | 19 | 21:16 |
| Bruns | ...believe me? | 21:16 |
| AJollyLife | yes, yes i do. | 21:17 |
| Bruns | :D | 21:17 |
| Bruns | If you guys are looking for a good time | 21:17 |
| Bruns | http://000chan.org/b/ | 21:18 |
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| Bruns | A movie about lesbians.... | 21:22 |
| Bruns | What the hell is this world coming to. | 21:22 |
| Bruns | ?* | 21:22 |
| genehacker | your jellyfish plan seems rather ambitious | 21:25 |
| Bruns | genehacker, thanks | 21:25 |
| fenn | how to pwn kickstarter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbOtAApMbww | 21:25 |
| kanzure | heat and air conditioning? heck yeah | 21:26 |
| Bruns | lol | 21:26 |
| Bruns | FUCK YAR | 21:26 |
| fenn | i must have missed the part where they actually got it working correctly | 21:27 |
| Bruns | genehacker so you think I shouldnt do it? | 21:28 |
| genehacker | I don't know I'm still reading more about it | 21:29 |
| Bruns | oh | 21:29 |
| genehacker | humans and jellyfish are quite different though | 21:29 |
| genehacker | have you looked into lobsters though? | 21:29 |
| Bruns | I know, hence having to mutate and purify their asses | 21:29 |
| Bruns | My friend and I are thinking we might be able to work our way up the animal kingdom | 21:30 |
| genehacker | one thing for sure is that it's going to take a lot of work | 21:31 |
| Bruns | I know, that's why it is fun. | 21:31 |
| Bruns | I am going to graduate school etc. for exactly this, though | 21:32 |
| genehacker | you might try to get it to work in hydra, as those are model organisms: | 21:32 |
| genehacker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra_%28genus%29 | 21:33 |
| genehacker | neat | 21:33 |
| genehacker | fenn why doesn't your hackerspace build it's own airconditioning? | 21:33 |
| Bruns | this jellyfish will be easier to get than the hydra | 21:33 |
| Bruns | we have already looked into it | 21:33 |
| genehacker | whaa? | 21:33 |
| genehacker | how the heck is it easier to get than hydra? | 21:33 |
| Bruns | Because the jellyfish is already being sent to me.... | 21:34 |
| Bruns | lol | 21:34 |
| Bruns | well, about to be | 21:34 |
| Bruns | lol | 21:34 |
| Bruns | I told him we should look into the hydra as well though | 21:34 |
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| genehacker | there's a new super-simple super efficient air conditioning process out there that you guys might look into using | 21:34 |
| Bruns | breathing | 21:35 |
| Bruns | I do like that the hydra ages incredibly slow | 21:35 |
| Alystair | any qwerty phone fans wanna take a peak at something I'm working on at the moment | 21:36 |
| Bruns | yah sure | 21:36 |
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| Bruns | How much does genome sequencing cost again? | 21:38 |
| kanzure | it's going down pretty fast | 21:38 |
| kanzure | i hear claims right now that it's at about $10k | 21:38 |
| kanzure | but i don't have any links for you for places that would do it for $10k | 21:39 |
| genehacker | it's still pretty expensive and the number of completely sequenced organism is around 30 or so | 21:39 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure that's not true, genehacker | 21:39 |
| genehacker | at least the ones I can find | 21:39 |
| kanzure | bdesk: do you know the number of whole genome sequenced organisms off the top of your head | 21:39 |
| kanzure | yeah, like on the ncbi website | 21:40 |
| Bruns | yeah | 21:40 |
| Bruns | 10k is not cheap.... | 21:40 |
| kanzure | Bruns: 20 years ago it was $1B | 21:40 |
| kanzure | 10 years ago it was about $1M | 21:40 |
| genehacker | notice I said completely sequenced | 21:40 |
| jrayhawk | Hydras tend to grow unaided in aquaria. | 21:40 |
| kanzure | 5 years ago about $350k | 21:40 |
| Bruns | someone said something about buying an old genome sequencer for 300 bucks | 21:40 |
| kanzure | Bruns: that was me | 21:41 |
| kanzure | but to be honest, it's not going to work out too well for you | 21:41 |
| Bruns | why | 21:41 |
| kanzure | it'll probably be a 484 or something | 21:41 |
| Bruns | eh | 21:41 |
| Bruns | thats not bad | 21:41 |
| kanzure | and so you'll only be able to sequence 20bp segments at a time | 21:41 |
| Bruns | I can make 484+ from one sale | 21:41 |
| kanzure | illumina 484 | 21:41 |
| kanzure | anyway, at 20bp per sequenced segment, you're talking about a *lot* of runs | 21:41 |
| kanzure | especially to get whole genome coverage | 21:41 |
| kanzure | even for a single chromosome | 21:41 |
| jrayhawk | Alystair: I am a qwerty phone fan I like peaking at things! | 21:42 |
| Bruns | kanzure, how much time are we talking about would this take? | 21:42 |
| kanzure | well it took 10 years of a few hundred of these machines working in parallel to sequence the human genome (?) | 21:43 |
| kanzure | my numbers might be a bit off :) | 21:43 |
| Bruns | D: | 21:44 |
| Bruns | 10 years?! | 21:44 |
| Bruns | omgz | 21:44 |
| kanzure | but those were really old machines | 21:44 |
| jrayhawk | I think they actually switched to better hardware at some point. | 21:44 |
| kanzure | they did | 21:44 |
| Bruns | kanzure how long would it take for sequencing today? | 21:44 |
| kanzure | i don't know how to give you a good estimate, sorry | 21:45 |
| kanzure | but definitely less than a year | 21:45 |
| Alystair | if you're typing on a qwerty phone would you prefer a landscape or portrait screen? | 21:45 |
| AJollyLife | probably depends also on how much funding you have | 21:45 |
| kanzure | Alystair: i'd prefer a ps/2 port | 21:45 |
| kanzure | thanks | 21:45 |
| Bruns | I can always manage to get more funding. | 21:45 |
| kanzure | uh, how? | 21:45 |
| Bruns | so less than a year? | 21:45 |
| Bruns | lol | 21:45 |
| Alystair | kanzure: nokia has always had bluetooth keyboard option, but I meant one with a physical qwerty board | 21:46 |
| Bruns | If I told you then I wouldn't be able to continue using it | 21:46 |
| jrayhawk | It doesn't particularly matter to me, although most software infrastructure is optimized for 4:3 or greater aspect ratio | 21:46 |
| kanzure | oh please.. not another adwords spamking | 21:46 |
| Bruns | wat | 21:46 |
| Bruns | no | 21:46 |
| jrayhawk | I was quite fond of the E70 keyboard design, myself. | 21:47 |
| Bruns | I am going to go buy taco bell | 21:47 |
| Bruns | anyone want any? | 21:47 |
| jrayhawk | Just a pity about the operating system. | 21:47 |
| genehacker | anyway when I tried to find some whole genomes I had trouble finding them | 21:47 |
| kanzure | Bruns: get me a gordita crunch | 21:47 |
| genehacker | all I could find was mitochondrial dna | 21:47 |
| Bruns | 1 k so dilla | 21:47 |
| Bruns | got it | 21:47 |
| Bruns | anyone else? | 21:47 |
| AJollyLife | i try not to eat taco bell | 21:47 |
| jrayhawk | spicy chicken crunchwrap supreme | 21:47 |
| kanzure | did jrayhawk just make shit up? | 21:48 |
| jrayhawk | DO NOT QUESTION MY SHIT | 21:48 |
| Bruns | alright | 21:48 |
| Bruns | I will be back | 21:48 |
| genehacker | also I am now considering replacing my mtDNA with mtDNA from another vertebrate | 21:48 |
| genehacker | just to troll people | 21:48 |
| genehacker | after all mtdna is fairly conserved... | 21:48 |
| genehacker | oh wait around 50 or so vertebrate complete genomes | 21:52 |
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| kanzure | fenn: fyi, i've cleaned up about 20 GB off of davinci | 22:05 |
| kanzure | apparently i had a copy of KEGG laying around | 22:05 |
| kanzure | which was 12 GB alone | 22:06 |
| kanzure | "Gene Doping: A Review of Performance-Enhancing Genetics" | 22:09 |
| genehacker | has anyone actually done it yet? | 22:11 |
| kanzure | dunno. but it's been banned :) | 22:11 |
| kanzure | actually i should know if it's been done | 22:12 |
| kanzure | i should look into it more closely. sorry. | 22:12 |
| kanzure | bdesk: do you log #python? because someone helped me out earlier tonight, and i can't find it in my backlog | 22:20 |
| kanzure | not only that, but irssi crapped out on me and didn't log because the hard drive was full | 22:21 |
| kanzure | ah it's because it wasn't in #python | 22:25 |
| kanzure | phew | 22:25 |
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| Bruns | Sorry, | 22:59 |
| Bruns | I didn't go to taco smell :/ | 22:59 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 07 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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