| --- Log opened Thu Jul 08 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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| cluckj | kanzure I think I found the guy you were saying was from my area | 03:09 |
|---|---|---|
| cluckj | bob keys? | 03:09 |
| cluckj | he just posted to the ml | 03:09 |
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| ENKI-][ | kanzure: i'm sure you are probably aware of this trick, but you might not be -- but the most meaniningful phrases are closest to mean frequency, usually (which does not mean that they are particularly frequent; if you graph word frequency you tend to get a bathtub curve) | 05:33 |
| bdesk | i'm pretty sure you don't | 05:35 |
| ENKI-][ | meh. try it? | 05:36 |
| ENKI-][ | i use that heuristic for markov chain bots, and it works better than most of the other ones i've used. i've never tested it empirically, just read it somewhere | 05:37 |
| bdesk | i probably just misunderstand the axes of your curve | 05:37 |
| ENKI-][ | the number of extremely common words and the number of unique words that appear only once or twice are both very large in terms of instances compared to the count of words with frequencies closer to the average | 05:38 |
| bdesk | when i think 'plot of word frequency', I think of something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-n-zipf.png | 05:39 |
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| ENKI-][ | on the right side you have the count of "the", "and", "of", etc. on the left side you have the count of words that appear only once, like "jabberwocken" and "etcsl-corporae" | 05:39 |
| ENKI-][ | of course, if we're talking information theory, then the least frequent words a priori contain more information. however, people generally have a threshhold below which uniqueness constitutes noise | 05:41 |
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| kanzure | hi metaliving | 07:33 |
| metaliving | hey | 07:33 |
| metaliving | did anyone here write this on the emotiv forum? | 07:34 |
| metaliving | I have written some python apps to read data from the EPOC. If you're interested in the development of this, check out #hplusroadmap on the freenode IRC network. | 07:34 |
| kanzure | yes | 07:34 |
| kanzure | that was me | 07:34 |
| metaliving | oh, nice | 07:34 |
| metaliving | what do you think of the epoc eeg readings? | 07:34 |
| kanzure | i think they are annoying | 07:34 |
| kanzure | AES 512 encryption? really? sigh | 07:34 |
| metaliving | disregarding the encryption | 07:35 |
| metaliving | are they accurate enough? | 07:35 |
| kanzure | i haven't been able to break the encryption yet | 07:35 |
| metaliving | have you done any feature detection using machine learning? | 07:35 |
| kanzure | i think the encryption key is embedded in the .exe files that they distribute | 07:35 |
| metaliving | oh, you bought the commercial version? | 07:36 |
| kanzure | what? | 07:36 |
| kanzure | i have an emotiv epoc, the standard consumer version | 07:36 |
| kanzure | if it's encrypted, and the programs are decrypting the information, there has to be a key in the .exe file | 07:36 |
| kanzure | there's no other way.. unless it's making up the data | 07:37 |
| metaliving | yeah, got that | 07:37 |
| metaliving | so those python apps can't read the data yet? | 07:37 |
| kanzure | right :( | 07:37 |
| kanzure | yeah, no machine learning, no SVMs, etc. | 07:37 |
| kanzure | sorry to disappointing. my decrypt-foo isn't as strong as it should be :) | 07:37 |
| metaliving | i was thinking of buying the research edition | 07:37 |
| kanzure | eek | 07:37 |
| kanzure | why? | 07:37 |
| metaliving | too expensive though :| | 07:37 |
| kanzure | whenever 'thesnark' logs in today, you might ask him about his project | 07:38 |
| kanzure | he decided to just replace the encoding chips in his emotiv | 07:38 |
| kanzure | i forget the exact part numbers | 07:38 |
| JayDugger | Did that work/ | 07:38 |
| JayDugger | ? | 07:38 |
| kanzure | dunno- last i heard the project was going well, but i haven't heard any details | 07:39 |
| metaliving | i guess an openeeg machine is also an option | 07:40 |
| metaliving | with crappy and noisy readings | 07:41 |
| kanzure | thesnark was thinking of doing a 32-channel openeeg | 07:41 |
| metaliving | nice | 07:42 |
| kanzure | metaliving: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/emotiv/epoc/ | 07:42 |
| kanzure | hm the .py file isn't in there | 07:42 |
| * kanzure digs around | 07:43 | |
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| metaliving | can you even hope of breaking an aes 512 encryption? | 07:50 |
| metaliving | has it been done? :p | 07:50 |
| metaliving | sounds way too unlikely | 07:50 |
| kanzure | i don't think it has to be broken | 07:50 |
| kanzure | i mean, somehow the programs are already using the data | 07:51 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure they have an AES key embedded in them | 07:51 |
| kanzure | so we just pipe the .exe files and .dll files through 'strings' or something | 07:51 |
| kanzure | and find it :) | 07:51 |
| metaliving | i see | 07:52 |
| eridu | there's no such thing as "AES 512" | 07:52 |
| kanzure | uh, are you sure? | 07:52 |
| eridu | I would be extremely surprised | 07:52 |
| bdesk | "Key sizes of 128, 160, 192, 224, and 256 bits are supported by the Rijndael algorithm, but only the 128, 192, and 256-bit key sizes are specified in the AES standard." | 07:52 |
| kanzure | huh | 07:53 |
| kanzure | uh | 07:53 |
| kanzure | i wonder where i .. | 07:53 |
| eridu | there is certainly no implementation of "AES 512" in any free software system | 07:53 |
| eridu | or in any widely-used proprietary system, either | 07:53 |
| eridu | don't feel bad about it, I could have sworn once that I had seen "AES 1024" ;-) | 07:53 |
| kanzure | i'm wondering how i originally "found" that it was AES 512, so that i could go repeat it and see if i just misremembered | 07:55 |
| metaliving | "I agree rip. In all of my dealings with the Emotiv people I never once got the impression that they were technically ignorant. Customer service seems to be lacking a bit, but they’ve always known their stuff (especially Gmac). I have actually received private messages/comments regarding this from people who are actively attempting to reverse engineer the device, stating that the AES 512 key is easily obtainable and that they are | 08:00 |
| metaliving | in the process of looking into this as well as possible chip-swaps in the headset and dongle to give them more access to data." | 08:00 |
| metaliving | http://killerprojects.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/arduino-assisted-mind-controlled-tv-using-eeg/ | 08:00 |
| metaliving | here perhaps? | 08:00 |
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| metaliving | damn, next best plan is creating a biofeedback club in college and asking the student board for money | 08:09 |
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| Ian_Daniher | kanzure: what about adding something to the #diybio channel header about #hplusroadmap? | 08:28 |
| Ian_Daniher | kanzure: "if we don't answer, swing by #hplusroadmap" | 08:28 |
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| kanzure | i'm watching this: http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/bioethics/100708/globe_show/default_go.cfm?live=1&type=flv | 09:19 |
| kanzure | Ian_Daniher: i'm not channel operator in that channel | 09:20 |
| kanzure | international association synthetic biology http://www.ia-sb.eu/go/synthetic-biology/ | 09:26 |
| kanzure | huh they'll have markus schmidt? | 09:26 |
| kanzure | the transcriber sucks | 09:34 |
| splicer | that was interesting... thanks bryan | 09:37 |
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| kanzure | this might be a better link for finding the streams: http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/bioethics/100708/# | 10:04 |
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| phryk | A better link for the bioethics.gov thing is mms://wm.tvworldwide.com/100708_bioethics you can directly watch that with mplayer (vlc should work, too) | 10:18 |
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| kanzure | hi nima, hi metaliving | 10:39 |
| nima | Hello kanzure | 10:44 |
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| splicer | fucking etc group | 11:11 |
| pmetzger | the etc group is nutty. | 11:13 |
| bdesk | "Synthia is Alive and Breeding: Panacea or Pandora's Box?" | 11:14 |
| kanzure | hah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley | 11:17 |
| kanzure | 12:06 < salat_> heyho | 11:19 |
| kanzure | 12:13 < salat_> could someone tell me whats the actual state of diy biotechnologie? i mean...i searched for diy pcr and expected a whole bunch of plans of diy pcrs. even successful electrophoresis experiments seem to be rare | 11:19 |
| kanzure | heh | 11:19 |
| kanzure | there's actually a lot of PCR stuff under a different name (non-diy) | 11:19 |
| kanzure | it's interesting to see the transcription occuring on the stream | 11:20 |
| pmetzger | the kids at SF state competed in the annual synthetic bio contest at MIT using what was essentially DIY equipment in a makeshift lab. | 11:20 |
| kanzure | important details are totally kept out | 11:20 |
| pmetzger | there is lots of DIY stuff going on, it is just not called that. | 11:20 |
| kanzure | "oh they aren't slave workers.. we'll just leave that part of the sentene out" | 11:20 |
| kanzure | *sentence | 11:20 |
| kanzure | it's like a big brother filter happening in real time | 11:20 |
| pmetzger | what are you talking about? | 11:20 |
| kanzure | are you watching the stream? | 11:20 |
| pmetzger | no why would I? | 11:21 |
| kanzure | there's a live transcriber sitting in that room | 11:21 |
| kanzure | and it's weird. | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | it seems a pointless as listening to congressional hearings. | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | it is all about politics, and politics as practiced by irrational people. | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | which is to say, most people. | 11:21 |
| kanzure | you're full of shit again | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | ???? | 11:21 |
| kanzure | the earlier discussion was actually fairly informative on synthetic biology | 11:21 |
| kanzure | did you read the transcript? | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | no. | 11:21 |
| pmetzger | the word "bioethics" came up. | 11:22 |
| * kanzure finds the link | 11:22 | |
| kanzure | well it wasn't about bioethics | 11:22 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/8b5da86b61a8154 | 11:22 |
| pmetzger | anything that might be about bioethics, I ignore. :) | 11:22 |
| phryk | pmetzger: Why that? | 11:22 |
| kanzure | it wasn't about bioethics | 11:22 |
| pmetzger | bioethics = religious people telling other people they can't get particular medical treatments etc. | 11:23 |
| splicer | (bioethics in religious context means almost exclusively abortion issues apparently) | 11:23 |
| pmetzger | bioethics is generally about what we mustn't do to living things. it is a weird, self-appointed discipline | 11:24 |
| pmetzger | the people who are part of it are generally religious or cryptoreligious. | 11:24 |
| pmetzger | and I don't like wasting my time. | 11:24 |
| kanzure | i'm sorry, but claiming venter or george church are bioethicists is just full of shit | 11:24 |
| pmetzger | so they're at this thing. | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | probably out of self defense. | 11:25 |
| kanzure | actually, no | 11:25 |
| kanzure | did you read the transcript? | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | Venter has a good track record of protecting himself well from this stuff. | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | Will I learn anything from the transcript? | 11:25 |
| kanzure | the government was asking "where can we dump money on you, kthxbai" | 11:25 |
| kanzure | i think so, yes | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | I have actual work to do. | 11:25 |
| pmetzger | Grant proposals are a well understood system. :) | 11:26 |
| pmetzger | one doesn't need to watch long video streams to learn how to write them. | 11:26 |
| kanzure | this wasn't about grants. | 11:26 |
| pmetzger | so you said the government was asking where to dump money. | 11:26 |
| kanzure | yeah they were quite supportive of their work in synthetic biology | 11:26 |
| pmetzger | the usual method by which the government dumps money on science is via DARPA, NSF, the national institutes, etc. | 11:26 |
| kanzure | yes i know that | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | one produces proposals for them, they get peer reviewed, some money comes out. | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | a small amount is spent via earmarks, which requires political mudwrestling to get. | 11:27 |
| phryk | I'm really wondering what DARPA really does... | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | DARPA does research. | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | lots of research funding. | 11:27 |
| phryk | They always have shitloads of projects you never hear about again... | 11:27 |
| pmetzger | my advisor worked at DARPA for a while. | 11:27 |
| phryk | pmetzger: Do you know what happened to that invisibility-cloak programme? | 11:28 |
| kanzure | the metamaterial program? | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | anyway, I'm happy to read papers or watch technical presentations, but general introductions to fields I already have general introductions to aren't very interesting. | 11:28 |
| kanzure | aren't there like twenty of them? | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | there are a lot of people working on metamaterials. | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | and most of the reason to do the work is unrelated to "invisibility" | 11:28 |
| pmetzger | microscopy is the best reason to care. | 11:28 |
| phryk | kanzure: yes that | 11:29 |
| pmetzger | kanzure: how will my ability to do my research improve if I watch this video or read a transcript? | 11:30 |
| kanzure | you'll be less full of it when you claim venter is a bioethicist? | 11:31 |
| pmetzger | I didn't claim he was. | 11:31 |
| splicer | i think only kanzure does | 11:31 |
| kanzure | what? | 11:31 |
| splicer | he is an industrialist... and he belongs in the discussion | 11:32 |
| splicer | for that reason | 11:32 |
| kanzure | splicer: i definitely *do not* think that venter is a bioethicist | 11:32 |
| splicer | but you seem to claim someone has said that | 11:32 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: you were implying some sort of kooty-theory that because they are speaking on a conference schedule with others who you find to be less than, ah, relevant (which i agree with), that therefore what they said is also irrelevant | 11:32 |
| kanzure | splicer: pmetzger did. | 11:32 |
| kanzure | read the logs, yo | 11:33 |
| splicer | k | 11:33 |
| pmetzger | most of what they say at such conferences is irrelevant, yes, because it is pitched at a general audience. | 11:33 |
| pmetzger | it is introductory material designed to make other people listening less afraid of what they do. | 11:33 |
| kanzure | it's really not hard to skim over some text and figure out if it's BS or not | 11:33 |
| pmetzger | it isn't a scientific presentation of work that I would find interesting because it would teach me about new techniques etc. | 11:33 |
| kanzure | i'm not going to continue arguing with you about this | 11:33 |
| kanzure | it's just reading, pmetzger | 11:33 |
| pmetzger | I don't even understand what you're arguing about. | 11:33 |
| kanzure | you've spent more time trying to convince me that i'm wrong, without looking at the text, with more time than it would have taken you to just glance at it | 11:34 |
| pmetzger | I didn't try to convince you you were wrong. | 11:34 |
| kanzure | *sigh* | 11:34 |
| pmetzger | All I said was I was uninterested in reading about this conference. | 11:34 |
| kanzure | you were claiming it was pointless | 11:34 |
| pmetzger | that's all I said. | 11:34 |
| pmetzger | and I explained why. | 11:34 |
| kanzure | and i was claiming it was not | 11:34 |
| kanzure | what's hard to understand about this? | 11:34 |
| pmetzger | are they discussing stuff I don't know? | 11:34 |
| pmetzger | if not, it is pointless for me to read about it, yes. | 11:34 |
| bdesk | kanzure: paste the juicy bits from the transcript | 11:34 |
| pmetzger | Venter has a lot of money he gets from the government. he's in a politically sensitive spot. | 11:35 |
| pmetzger | so he spends a lot of time schmoozing. | 11:35 |
| pmetzger | that's great. | 11:35 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: how would i know what you know? | 11:35 |
| kanzure | nobody said he was schmoozing (except you) | 11:35 |
| pmetzger | but I don't have to read transcripts of him schmoozing. | 11:35 |
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| kanzure | who said he was schmoozing? | 11:35 |
| pmetzger | is this a technical conference? | 11:35 |
| kanzure | wtf | 11:35 |
| pmetzger | if not, he's schmoozing, just like H+ was all schmoozing. | 11:35 |
| kanzure | uhuh | 11:35 |
| kanzure | well, i won't disagree with that, a lot of the hplus summit was bullshitting | 11:36 |
| pmetzger | a technical conference people present new, interesting results in a scientifically interesting way. | 11:36 |
| pmetzger | at a conference like the one you pointed at, people discuss things with policy makers and produce introductions to a field for laypeople. | 11:36 |
| kanzure | and i'm telling you that you're wrong | 11:36 |
| kanzure | i've watched it, transcribed it, and have digested it | 11:36 |
| pmetzger | I've just scanned through the transcript. | 11:36 |
| kanzure | so wtf are you smoking? | 11:36 |
| splicer | kanzure: can't find it, but that discussion seems to be over anyway | 11:37 |
| kanzure | in the time that you've been arguing? | 11:37 |
| pmetzger | I see nothing here that's not an introduction for lay people. | 11:37 |
| kanzure | splicer: hm? yeah, the current streaming stuff is crap | 11:37 |
| pmetzger | I can read and type a line or two at the same time, yah. | 11:37 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: there's a lot of proprietary information that they dumped that is not available in the literature | 11:37 |
| pmetzger | maybe, but I wouldn't absorb it anyway. my area is mnt, not synthetic biology. | 11:38 |
| pmetzger | I wouldn't know the first thing about lab technique etc. | 11:38 |
| kanzure | it's really weird how territorial you are | 11:38 |
| kanzure | :( | 11:38 |
| pmetzger | no. | 11:38 |
| kanzure | i'm going to stop bothering now | 11:38 |
| pmetzger | You're imagining an argument. | 11:38 |
| kanzure | uh | 11:38 |
| pmetzger | I'm not arguing with you. you're arguing with you. | 11:38 |
| pmetzger | really. | 11:38 |
| kanzure | wtf? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | you've posited some statements that i disagreed with | 11:39 |
| kanzure | so i presented reasoning | 11:39 |
| pmetzger | I think you need another 20 years experience using chat channels. | 11:39 |
| kanzure | argument from authority | 11:39 |
| bkero | what. | 11:39 |
| pmetzger | Argument from experience. You're assuming I'm having an argument with you. | 11:39 |
| pmetzger | you're getting angry, I'm just saying I don't care much about this conference. | 11:39 |
| pmetzger | It isn't relevant to me. | 11:40 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: i'm not assuming anything, all i have is the logs here | 11:40 |
| kanzure | i am not angry :) | 11:40 |
| bdesk | kanzure: make a blog of the relevant parts of the bioethics thingy | 11:40 |
| kanzure | just confused and worried | 11:40 |
| kanzure | bdesk: huh? why should i? | 11:40 |
| pmetzger | worried that I have other things to do? | 11:40 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: no, worried that you categorically exclude things without reading it | 11:40 |
| kanzure | or skimming it, rather | 11:40 |
| pmetzger | I did skim it. I saw nothing I deeply cared about. | 11:40 |
| kanzure | but that was after me prodding you a lot | 11:41 |
| kanzure | or maybe the last 10 minutes have been a blur? | 11:41 |
| pmetzger | I have a lot of experience in deciding not to look at things. | 11:41 |
| pmetzger | you insisted, so I looked. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | okay. great. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | then my job is done here :P | 11:41 |
| pmetzger | There are about 300 papers that come to my attention in a given week, and two or three conferences. | 11:41 |
| pmetzger | If I paid even a few minutes of attention to each I would not get anything done. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | i doubt that, but please forward me the 300 papers/week | 11:41 |
| pmetzger | So I spend a lot of time being "prejudiced". | 11:42 |
| pmetzger | And generally my prejudices are correct. | 11:42 |
| kanzure | i see | 11:42 |
| pmetzger | as just one example, lots of my CSy friends told me to look at google wave | 11:42 |
| kanzure | well, forward me the 300 papers/week to me | 11:42 |
| kanzure | and i'll be anti-prejudiced for you or something | 11:42 |
| pmetzger | I said "if it becomes a big thing, I'll look at it. right now, I see no more reason to worry about it than I did DCE or 80 other technologies that went nowhere" | 11:42 |
| pmetzger | and I was right. | 11:42 |
| kanzure | i think google wave has some interesting algorithms for distributed revision control | 11:42 |
| pmetzger | it might, but I'm not a distributed revision control guy. | 11:43 |
| kanzure | prejudice again? | 11:43 |
| pmetzger | I work on different things, and I can't learn about everything. | 11:43 |
| kanzure | uhuh | 11:43 |
| pmetzger | I can't even read every article in science and nature every week. | 11:43 |
| pmetzger | those come right to my door, I just have to spend a few hours on it | 11:43 |
| pmetzger | and i don't. | 11:43 |
| pmetzger | because most of the content is in fields I don't follow and have no time for. | 11:43 |
| pmetzger | those are some of the hundreds of papers that go by me every week. | 11:44 |
| splicer | boys ... time to take your meds | 11:44 |
| kanzure | splicer: ? | 11:44 |
| kanzure | i think we're just talking now, aren't we? | 11:44 |
| pmetzger | science and nature alone count for like 50. | 11:44 |
| pmetzger | then there are RSS feeds I subscribe to for various chemistry and physics papers. | 11:45 |
| pmetzger | etc. | 11:45 |
| pmetzger | and i generally read only a very tiny fraction. | 11:45 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: if you want more rss, try http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/docs/rss/ | 11:45 |
| kanzure | it's the rss feeds for the majority of scientific journals | 11:45 |
| kanzure | (something i monitor) | 11:45 |
| pmetzger | I'd rather not monitor so much stuff. I get too much information in my day already. | 11:46 |
| pmetzger | I have a dozen books I have to read and haven't started on. | 11:46 |
| pmetzger | I need less information in my day, more time to digest what I already know and what I already know i need to learn. | 11:47 |
| bdesk | pmetzger: distributed revision control is good to use even if you don't care about its algorithms. | 11:49 |
| pmetzger | why? | 11:49 |
| pmetzger | I do use it -- I use things like git and hg. | 11:50 |
| kanzure | then why are you asking why | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | but why should I learn about the algorithms in more detail? | 11:50 |
| kanzure | bdesk specifically said "even if you don't care about its algorithms" | 11:50 |
| kanzure | so your question seems irrelevant | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | you suggested that google wave was interesting because of the distributed revision control algorithms | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | I said that's not my area of study. | 11:50 |
| kanzure | bdesk isn't talking about that | 11:50 |
| pmetzger | I didn't say I don't like distributed revision control. I said I didn't learn about google wave and it turned out I was right not to learn about it. | 11:51 |
| kanzure | well you specifically said: | 11:52 |
| kanzure | 13:43 < pmetzger> it might, but I'm not a distributed revision control guy. | 11:52 |
| kanzure | 13:43 < pmetzger> I work on different things, and I can't learn about everything. | 11:52 |
| pmetzger | Correct. | 11:52 |
| kanzure | implying that you didn't want to learn about git and hg | 11:52 |
| pmetzger | I don't write distributed revision control systems. | 11:53 |
| pmetzger | I just use them. | 11:53 |
| kanzure | and other distributed revision control systems | 11:53 |
| pmetzger | I'm not a aircraft engineer either, so I don't read about developments in aeronautics. | 11:53 |
| pmetzger | but I do fly in planes. | 11:53 |
| * bkero learns about everything. | 11:54 | |
| kanzure | 8) | 11:54 |
| * bkero however, is nothing. | 11:54 | |
| pmetzger | I learn a little about many things, but there is more to learn than my brain can absorb or that I've got time for. | 11:55 |
| pmetzger | I didn't learn chemistry or quantum mechanics until I really needed them, though they are plenty interesting topics. | 11:55 |
| pmetzger | I love learning interesting things that are not entirely relevant to my field, but there are limits. | 11:56 |
| pmetzger | becoming a real expert at anything takes something like 10,000 hours. there are perhaps 2000 hours of work a person can do per year, and that is pushing it. | 12:00 |
| pmetzger | there are thus serious limits to how many things one can be an expert at in a human lifetime. | 12:00 |
| pmetzger | and we forget things very quickly. | 12:00 |
| pmetzger | if you don't use a skill like calculus for ten years it is largely gone. | 12:01 |
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| kanzure | lol at governments debating vitalism | 12:17 |
| -!- Lentur [~lentur@p54B9F9D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Java user signed off] | 12:24 | |
| bdesk | man cannot live on bread alone, and you need a fifth jar if you want to create life with four jars of nucleotides. | 12:26 |
| cluckj | 10000 hours sounds about right | 12:35 |
| kanzure | there were various studies about that number | 12:35 |
| kanzure | i mean, that reported that number | 12:35 |
| cluckj | a PhD takes about 5-6 years | 12:37 |
| bdesk | that number is from gladwell | 12:37 |
| bdesk | well, popularized by him. | 12:37 |
| bdesk | it is 'truthy' so he is famous. | 12:38 |
| bdesk | his schtick is to say truthy things so that you will say 'that sounds about right' and then feel smart and tell your friends. | 12:38 |
| cluckj | haha | 12:38 |
| cluckj | he's a memesmith | 12:39 |
| kanzure | man's a genius | 12:39 |
| kanzure | :P | 12:39 |
| kanzure | i am fairly impressed with Allen Buchanan | 12:48 |
| kanzure | http://fds.duke.edu/db/aas/Philosophy/allen.buchanan | 12:49 |
| bdesk | "Institutionalizing the Just War." | 12:51 |
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| streety | the figure of 5-6 years must be region (and possibly subject) specific | 13:11 |
| streety | in the UK for bio/medicine it's 3-4 years | 13:12 |
| * splicer is impressed by Buchanan too | 13:13 | |
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| kanzure | why don't we have buchanan talking for humanity+? | 13:17 |
| kanzure | anyway, i just posted the transcript to diybio | 13:17 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/8b5da86b61a8154 | 13:18 |
| bdesk | http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Humanity-Biomedical-Enhancement-Practical/dp/0199587817 | 13:21 |
| bdesk | Duke University, 2002 to present. James B. Duke Distinguished Professor of Philosophy | 13:21 |
| bdesk | Consultant, (U.S.) President's Council on Bioethics, 2007-- | 13:21 |
| bdesk | he probably doesn't have a lot of spare time... | 13:21 |
| kanzure | hrm | 13:22 |
| splicer | +maybe it's a case of "That would look great on your cv, no so good on mine" | 13:25 |
| kanzure | ha ha ha | 13:32 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul2-NT | 13:32 |
| kanzure | http://bit.ly/GSP10BookList | 13:33 |
| kanzure | https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/gsp10/feedback/week-2 | 13:33 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul2-NT-discussion | 13:33 |
| kanzure | https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/fileview?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaMTU0NzU3ZDQtZGY0Yi00ZTdmLThiNzgtMjI2NzBlMGVkMjAy&hl=en | 13:33 |
| kanzure | https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/fileview?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaMTU0NzU3ZDQtZGY0Yi00ZTdmLThiNzgtMjI2NzBlMGVkMjAy&hl=en | 13:34 |
| kanzure | oh, same link | 13:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.nims.go.jp/nanomechanics/Science.html | 13:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/322/5900/413 | 13:34 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yka5u_Ax6z8 | 13:34 |
| kanzure | https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/fileview?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaNWQyYjVhMDktNzJmNS00Mjg4LTkxN2QtNjBhZDEzOTZiZTFm&hl=en | 13:34 |
| kanzure | http://singularityu.org/gsp10pads/ | 13:34 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/ | 13:34 |
| kanzure | oh fuck | 13:35 |
| kanzure | hax0r | 13:35 |
| bdesk | ? | 13:35 |
| kanzure | https://spreadsheets0.google.com/a/singularityu.org/ccc?key=tXpgGxzhxL2sKHiHllloUJg&hl=en_GB#gid=0 | 13:37 |
| kanzure | http://www.neuroinformatics2010.org/speakers/yukiyasu-kamitani | 13:37 |
| kanzure | http://www.omneuron.com/technology2.htm | 13:37 |
| kanzure | http://goo.gl/mUgv | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://prq.sagepub.com/content/62/3/584.full.pdf+html | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ewing_Duncan | 13:38 |
| kanzure | bdesk: this is from singularityu.org's $25,000 program | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://experimentalman.com/ | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/Pad-One-Liner | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul01-MED | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://omneuron.com/ | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee73/tricks-and-illusions/dalmatian-illusion.jpg | 13:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJJPbpHoPWo&feature=related | 13:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.neurosky.com/ | 13:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.neuroinformatics2010.org/speakers/yukiyasu-kamitani | 13:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.tedhuntington.com/neuron_images_from_brain_using_MRI.jpg | 13:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.omneuron.com/technology2.htm | 13:39 |
| kanzure | http://davidewingduncan.com/ | 13:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.entelos.com/index.php | 13:40 |
| kanzure | http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/147 | 13:40 |
| kanzure | http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/148 | 13:40 |
| kanzure | http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/149 | 13:40 |
| kanzure | integrative medicine slides: http://bit.ly/ajjKKf (rachel schneyer) | 13:40 |
| kanzure | chris longhurst slides on medical informatics: http://bit.ly/9aTPMc | 13:41 |
| kanzure | bioethics.gov is asking for emails from the public :P | 13:41 |
| kanzure | eri gentry slides https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/leaf?id=0ByuGXnC_X6-QNGU2ZGM0NDgtOWIzMy00ZTI3LWI4ZjgtMWQxYzU3NmFiMjE1&hl=en | 13:42 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jun29-NCS-CL1 | 13:42 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jun29-NCS-CL3 | 13:42 |
| kanzure | Mac: DIYBio was founded in 2002. | 13:42 |
| kanzure | wtf | 13:42 |
| kanzure | http://bit.ly/diybio-squid | 13:42 |
| kanzure | http://www.microbialfuelcell.org/www/) | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.lava-amp.com/ | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.symbiotica.uwa.edu.au/ | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.caedefensefund.org/faq.html | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseradish_peroxidase | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemochromatosis | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA | 13:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.quirky.com/ hm? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | DNA dating websites http://scientificmatch.com/ http://genepartner.com/ | 13:44 |
| kanzure | http://singularity.backchan.nl/meetings/view/140 | 13:44 |
| kanzure | https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/singularityu.org/viewform?formkey=dGVzY3JzR3VFeTJjSElVcjM3REFpY0E6MQ | 13:44 |
| kanzure | commentary for bioethics.gov: info@bioethics.gov | 13:46 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaminase | 13:46 |
| kanzure | http://www.newmedici.com/accelerator/ | 13:47 |
| kanzure | evolution of directed evolution: http://bit.ly/cH4aRj | 13:48 |
| kanzure | paul rothemund slides on dna origami https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/leaf?id=0B6vjqTaW5opaYjBkM2I3YTktZmVhYy00MjExLTg1MTAtMTExY2IwYmI2YjEy&sort=name&layout=list&pid=0B2Ij9HPeinaFOTU0MDYzNDUtOWYzMS00MWI5LTlhNmYtYzc5MWU2Y2YzYjM5&cindex=4 | 13:48 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/core-Jul7-BB-links | 13:48 |
| kanzure | "digital biopiracy" wut | 13:48 |
| kanzure | http://www.affymetrix.com/ | 13:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.appliedbiosystems.com | 13:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.genome.gov/20019523 genome wide association study | 13:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7335474/claims.html) | 13:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000993 Web-Based, Participant-Driven Studies Yield Novel Genetic Associations for Common Traits"PLoS Genet | 13:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.brainstormrf.org/ | 13:49 |
| kanzure | third generation sequencing http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090206/full/news.2009.86.html) | 13:49 |
| kanzure | Net-Gen includes Illumina, Life Technologies, Roche/454, etc. | 13:50 |
| kanzure | Next-Next-Gen includes Helicos, Pacific Biosciences, SZ Genomics, Halcyon Molecular, Lightspeed Genomics, etc. | 13:50 |
| kanzure | https://dnanexus.com/ | 13:50 |
| kanzure | FDA letter to Pathway: http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/ResourcesforYou/Industry/ucm211866.htm) | 13:50 |
| kanzure | california state senator on personal genome tests: http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_482&sess=CUR&house=B&site=sen | 13:50 |
| kanzure | 2006 interview genetic ethics http://bioethics.georgetown.edu/pcbe/transcripts/nov06/session4.html) | 13:50 |
| kanzure | https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/1000_Genomes_Project | 13:50 |
| kanzure | http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/06/ff_sergeys_search/all/1) | 13:51 |
| kanzure | http://www.codexis.com/) | 13:51 |
| kanzure | http://www.codexis.com/ | 13:51 |
| kanzure | biotech hall of fame http://www.chemheritage.org/exhibits/biotech/zaffaroni.html | 13:51 |
| splicer | (/b/) | 13:51 |
| kanzure | directed evolution enzyme http://www.che.caltech.edu/groups/fha/cara.pdf | 13:51 |
| kanzure | splicer: this isn't as random as you think | 13:51 |
| kanzure | catalog of molecular parts http://www.pdb.org/pdb/home/home.do) | 13:51 |
| kanzure | gah | 13:51 |
| kanzure | catalog of molecular parts http://www.pdb.org/pdb/home/home.do | 13:51 |
| kanzure | http://virtual.itg.uiuc.edu/training/AFM_tutorial | 13:52 |
| kanzure | shih lab stuff http://research4.dfci.harvard.edu/shih/SHIH_LAB/Home.html | 13:52 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_computing | 13:52 |
| kanzure | more slides https://rcpt.yousendit.com/901735785/867fc465d610e68adc0da5b0e4a4c9e7 | 13:54 |
| kanzure | https://docs.google.com/a/singularityu.org/uc?id=0ByuGXnC_X6-QNTNiNmUyMDctNDk1OS00YTg0LTg0OTYtYmVhMzYzMTk4ZjUw&export=download&hl=en | 13:54 |
| kanzure | raymond mccauley's presentation http://prezi.com/zd2ibyqy2jik/digitial-biology-biology-under-moores-law/ | 13:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.mindjet.com/index3.html | 13:55 |
| kanzure | https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/powertools/ | 13:55 |
| kanzure | digital stethoscope iphone app http://www.thinklabsmedical.com/ | 13:55 |
| kanzure | Used to have halter monitor. Shrunk - iRhythm. Put on chest for week, put it in the mail, get analysis of your heart rate. http://www.irhythmtech.com/zio-solution/zio-patch/ | 13:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.quantifiedself.com/ | 13:56 |
| kanzure | philips directlife sensewear http://www.directlife.philips.com/ | 13:56 |
| kanzure | http://www.sensewear.com/ | 13:56 |
| kanzure | http://www.bodymedia.com/ | 13:56 |
| kanzure | http://www.ted.com/talks/dean_kamen_previews_a_new_prosthetic_arm.html | 13:56 |
| kanzure | geomedicine http://www.esri.com/industries/health/geomedicine/index.html | 13:56 |
| kanzure | http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2009/07/15-01.html | 13:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.patientslikeme.com/als/community | 13:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyNBZMjz2QU | 13:57 |
| kanzure | http://video.google.com/a/singularityu.org/#/Play/contentId=12569090359a5e04 | 13:57 |
| kanzure | https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/gsp10/feedback/week-2 | 13:57 |
| kanzure | http://tedxnyed.com/ | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://college.wikispaces.com/TEDxNYED+Reflections | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuven_Feuerstein | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://heli.stanford.edu/ | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://www.amazon.com/Building-Intelligent-Interactive-Tutors-ebook/dp/B002ZJSVKA | 14:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.allbusiness.com/technology/computer-software-programming/1102684-1.html) | 14:00 |
| kanzure | mind machine project http://openmind.media.mit.edu/ | 14:00 |
| kanzure | http://mcgovern.mit.edu/principal-investigators/tomaso-poggio | 14:00 |
| kanzure | HTM-based ai vision http://www.binatix.com/people.html | 14:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/2208722/SU_Week_2_Wordle | 14:01 |
| eridu | so many links | 14:01 |
| kanzure | https://sites.google.com/a/singularityu.org/pads/home/week2/pads.html?attredirects=0&d=1 | 14:01 |
| kanzure | http://picasaweb.google.com/singularityu/TechShop# | 14:01 |
| kanzure | http://su-etherpad.com/Jul3-Techshop | 14:01 |
| kanzure | "NOTE: You should already be a member and Owner of the Google Group for your team project." | 14:01 |
| kanzure | hmm | 14:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.spoonflower.com | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.pond5.com/video-sound-effects-music/1/nasa-ames-hangar-one.html | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.burdastyle.com/ http://www.etsy.com/ http://www.freddyandma.com/ | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.tedprize.org/category/jill-tarter/page/2/ | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/feb2007/id20070201_774736.htm | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.amazon.com/Three-Moves-Ahead-Business-ebook/dp/B001AV9G4E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=books&qid=1277925255&sr=8-1 | 14:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.collaborativeconsumption.com/ | 14:03 |
| kanzure | http://www.allourideas.org/gsp10fee29jun | 14:03 |
| kanzure | http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/home/2008/hangar_index.html | 14:03 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florists'_Transworld_Delivery | 14:03 |
| kanzure | http://farmstogo.com/ http://proflowers.com/ | 14:03 |
| kanzure | http://www.elance.com http://www.guru.com http://www.odesk.com http://www.getafreelancer.com http://www.rentacoder.com http://www.quirky.com | 14:04 |
| kanzure | http://amzn.to/9lIBnA | 14:04 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schumpeter | 14:04 |
| kanzure | http://www.thedaemon.com/ | 14:06 |
| -!- eridu [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:06 | |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooming_user_interface | 14:06 |
| kanzure | http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/PVB/Harrison/SchrodCat/SchrodCat.html | 14:06 |
| kanzure | http://www.thefind.com/garden/info-fire-starter-lighter-cubes | 14:06 |
| kanzure | http://www.accessnow.org/ | 14:06 |
| kanzure | http://www.templetons.com/slides/singu-security-priv.ppt | 14:07 |
| kanzure | http://ideas.4brad.com/rename-data-portability-bepsi | 14:07 |
| kanzure | BEPSI: Bulk Export of Personal and Sensitive Information. | 14:07 |
| kanzure | http://mustbeaponyinthere.com/ | 14:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.allourideas.org/gsp10ncscl3 | 14:08 |
| pmetzger | are we to read all those URLs? | 14:10 |
| pmetzger | :) | 14:10 |
| pmetzger | (more seriously, why all the URLs?) | 14:13 |
| bdesk | because http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/044/778/original/hatersgonnacat.jpg | 14:16 |
| cluckj | awesome | 14:16 |
| cluckj | <kanzure> Mac: DIYBio was founded in 2002. <-- what? | 14:17 |
| cluckj | I thought it was 2008 | 14:18 |
| streety | that's when the domain was registered | 14:19 |
| cluckj | ah | 14:20 |
| cluckj | I really need to get my history of diy bio straight... | 14:21 |
| cluckj | sigh | 14:21 |
| streety | I mean the domain was registered in 2008 | 14:22 |
| cluckj | Created On:04-Apr-2008 16:44:44 UTC | 14:22 |
| streety | do we know what all the links are about yet? | 14:24 |
| pmetzger | my three theories are: 1) kanzure is using the irc log to save data he's looking up. 2) kanzure accidentally pasted a large buffer in to irc. 3) kanzure really likes posting links a lot. :) | 14:27 |
| streety | while 3 is certainly true I suspect some other factor is involved | 14:30 |
| kanzure | they are the links from the singularityu.org gsp10 session | 14:37 |
| kanzure | s/session/sessions/ | 14:37 |
| kanzure | *cough* http://singularityu.org/gsp10pads/ | 14:38 |
| kanzure | https://groups.google.com/a/singularityu.org/group/energy | 14:38 |
| kanzure | "You cannot view this group's content because you are not currently a member. Anyone from singularityu.org can join. | 14:38 |
| kanzure | hrm | 14:38 |
| kanzure | "An average half-kilometer S-type asteroid is worth more than $20 trillion." http://bit.ly/9Yh0Nl | 14:50 |
| kanzure | erm.. | 14:50 |
| QuantumG | sometimes you can came up with incredibly large numbers for net-present-value of asteroids | 14:53 |
| QuantumG | here's a more accurate assessment: http://quantumg.net/asteroid-npv.jpg | 14:55 |
| QuantumG | it even takes into account the time-value of money | 14:57 |
| streety | but doesn't appear to include any term for the value of the materials returned | 15:00 |
| streety | unless I've missed it | 15:01 |
| fenn | this is hilarious, NEEDS MORE GRAPHS http://viewhernude.com/ | 15:06 |
| fenn | too bad it doesn't actually work tho | 15:07 |
| pmetzger | it looks like a trap to get you to solve captchas for them. | 15:08 |
| pmetzger | so they can break into accounts and spam with them. | 15:08 |
| pmetzger | there are a bunch of such scams around, things that offer or actually provided a little "Free" porn in exchange for people solving captchas. | 15:08 |
| pmetzger | what the user doesn't realize is that they're being used as a mechanical turk. | 15:09 |
| QuantumG | streety: NPV tells you how much you have to be able to sell the recovered material for to make a profit. | 15:10 |
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| streety | That would make sense then | 15:13 |
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| kanzure | pmetzger: it's easier to just pay for http://decaptcher.com/ | 15:17 |
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| pmetzger | it is pretty easy to set up mechanical turk systems. | 15:20 |
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| QuantumG | probably better quality than relying on people trying to solve them with one hand too | 15:32 |
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| fenn | QuantumG: i propose your asteroid mining cost forumla is total bullshit, because it assumes all the mining equiment is being built on earth and launched wholesale | 15:55 |
| QuantumG | it's not "mine" .. it's from the literature. http://www.transport.caltech.edu/~shane/papers/ross-asteroid-mining-2001.pdf | 15:56 |
| fenn | well, you'd think they would have learned something between 1973 and 2001 | 15:57 |
| QuantumG | learned what exactly? | 15:58 |
| QuantumG | the business model is: launch mining equipment to an asteroid, process materials on-site to make both valuable product and propellant for the return journey, bring it back to Earth and sell to any market that will buy. That formula tells you how much you need to be able to sell for to turn a profit given a long list of variables, and informs you which variables are probably the best to optimize. | 16:03 |
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| kanzure | i just posted a proposal to do a bioethics.gov write-in for the diybio community | 16:22 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/7dad27a5b3810f84 | 16:22 |
| cluckj | kanzure awesome | 16:23 |
| cluckj | make that happen :) | 16:23 |
| cluckj | I think jason bobe is thinking about that kind of stuff as of late | 16:25 |
| kanzure | it kind of occurred to me like a wet brick hits smooth pavement | 16:29 |
| kanzure | uh, wait | 16:29 |
| kanzure | well anyway, what i mean to say that there's actually a high probability of getting a message communicated | 16:29 |
| cluckj | haha what | 16:29 |
| cluckj | ok | 16:29 |
| cluckj | that metaphor is abberant as hell | 16:29 |
| kanzure | :( | 16:29 |
| kanzure | don't phage me bro | 16:29 |
| cluckj | haters gonna hate, b | 16:29 |
| fenn | i support you in your metaphorasis | 16:29 |
| kanzure | spelling? | 16:30 |
| cluckj | pun | 16:30 |
| cluckj | (even worse) | 16:30 |
| cluckj | :) | 16:30 |
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| cluckj | nice one too fenn | 16:30 |
| fenn | um, please educate me on my subconscious pun | 16:31 |
| cluckj | if I have to explain it, it's not going to be funny | 16:31 |
| * fenn snorts a line of orange magic shell | 16:32 | |
| fenn | whatever man | 16:32 |
| cluckj | yep | 16:32 |
| cluckj | kanzure getting something said there from the "DIY Bio community" would be a big publicity boost | 16:33 |
| cluckj | I can't tell if it would be good or bad, though | 16:33 |
| cluckj | probably good | 16:34 |
| kanzure | what i was surprised at was how hungry the committee was for suggestions by craig and george | 16:35 |
| cluckj | haah | 16:35 |
| kanzure | they were almost begging them for "please tell us what we should say to the president" | 16:35 |
| kanzure | they kinda gave them what they wanted, but it wasn't entirely planned out i think | 16:36 |
| kanzure | i mean, they didn't come prepared to give them "here's your turn-key kit" | 16:36 |
| cluckj | is there a video of the proceedings today? | 16:36 |
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| cluckj | haha | 16:36 |
| kanzure | cluckj: there were streams, and apparently they are putting the videos up | 16:36 |
| kanzure | check the diybio thread | 16:36 |
| kanzure | josh posted a link | 16:36 |
| cluckj | awesome | 16:36 |
| cluckj | thanks | 16:36 |
| cluckj | I was at work all day and missed it | 16:36 |
| kanzure | i also did transcripts | 16:37 |
| kanzure | the transcriber they had on site was absolutely terrible | 16:37 |
| kanzure | missing entire sentences, words, typing "sin bioh", .. | 16:37 |
| cluckj | lol | 16:37 |
| kanzure | it was like watching an (unintentional) Big Brother filter over the ideas and statements | 16:37 |
| kanzure | cluckj: it would be helpful if you would write a reply to my email on the bioethics.gov write-in | 16:38 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_frm/thread/7dad27a5b3810f84 | 16:38 |
| cluckj | eehhh | 16:38 |
| cluckj | I really want to | 16:39 |
| kanzure | even just a generic "i support this and wish to subscribe to your newsletter" thing | 16:39 |
| cluckj | ok | 16:39 |
| cluckj | I'm uncomfortable with being a part of making the content of the statement | 16:39 |
| kanzure | that's fine | 16:40 |
| cluckj | just that line between anthropologist and "subjects of study" that I'm already dancing on | 16:43 |
| fenn | so you're really here as an anthropologist? i thought that was a joke | 16:44 |
| kanzure | QUICK! HIDE! we're being *studied* | 16:44 |
| fenn | aaaagh the light it burns | 16:45 |
| kanzure | no no i said /hide/ | 16:45 |
| kanzure | (not in broad daylight) | 16:45 |
| fenn | the pure light of scientific inquisition | 16:46 |
| * cluckj takes note of this | 16:46 | |
| kanzure | oh please | 16:47 |
| * cluckj decides they're all weirdos | 16:47 | |
| kanzure | well yeah | 16:47 |
| * cluckj writes a paper about it | 16:47 | |
| kanzure | i've never seen venter or church live / in a video | 16:47 |
| cluckj | fenn yep | 16:47 |
| pmetzger | you didn't watch the ted talk by venter? | 16:47 |
| pmetzger | actually there were two... | 16:47 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: no :( | 16:48 |
| cluckj | fenn I'm in a weird situation -- if I weren't studying diy bio, I'd be doing it | 16:48 |
| pmetzger | and there was the video announcement of his synthetic genome + cell a while ago. | 16:48 |
| kanzure | (it wasn't a conscious decision to not watch the TED talk) | 16:48 |
| cluckj | so I've gotta resist the urge to jump in feet first sometimes | 16:48 |
| kanzure | cluckj: maybe you could do it for transhumanism, then :) | 16:48 |
| pmetzger | they're not going to tell you much you don't know already... | 16:48 |
| fenn | cluckj: that's the most contrived excuse for not doing anything i've ever heard :P | 16:48 |
| pmetzger | assuming you've read the papers. | 16:48 |
| pmetzger | the papers are pretty readable. | 16:48 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:48 |
| JayDugger | Big Brother filter? John Walker has a Greasemonkey script for that. | 16:49 |
| JayDugger | http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/greasemonkey/#RedMeat | 16:49 |
| pmetzger | ah, john walker. | 16:52 |
| pmetzger | there's a guy to admire. except for the weird psychic phenomena beliefs that is. | 16:52 |
| cluckj | kanzure the guy I was with at h+ is doing it for transhumanism :P | 16:53 |
| cluckj | fenn oh I'm doing enough :) | 16:53 |
| cluckj | trying to be subtle, though | 16:54 |
| cluckj | geez, is william heath in here? | 16:54 |
| kanzure | he used to be | 16:55 |
| kanzure | i would've kicked ban him a long time ago | 16:55 |
| kanzure | except i don't have ops | 16:55 |
| ENKI-][ | pmetzger: are you the pmetzger who runs the skeptic blog? | 16:55 |
| cluckj | hahaha, good | 16:56 |
| cluckj | what a twerp :) | 16:56 |
| kanzure | cluckj: you should read the logs - search for "xp_prg" - and that's an interesting anthropological exploration in-and-of-itself | 16:56 |
| cluckj | hah | 16:57 |
| cluckj | he just posted to your call for messages | 16:57 |
| pmetzger | enki: no. | 16:57 |
| ENKI-][ | oh, ok. | 16:57 |
| cluckj | kanzure I would say something about friendship, microbes, and DIY Bio | 17:04 |
| kanzure | "let's be friends with the microbes" ? | 17:04 |
| fenn | i've decided that william heath is slightly mentally retarded | 17:05 |
| cluckj | sorta | 17:05 |
| fenn | so i'll stop being mean to him | 17:05 |
| cluckj | fenn, cosign on that | 17:05 |
| cluckj | kanzure that paper I wrote talks about more of what I mean | 17:05 |
| ENKI-][ | "DIY Bio makes microbes your friends!" | 17:05 |
| cluckj | haha | 17:05 |
| ENKI-][ | (so long as you don't screw up and make them kill you first) | 17:06 |
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| cluckj | "DIY Bio wants to be friends with your microbes" ;) ;) ;) | 17:06 |
| ENKI-][ | (it's actually more likely that they will remain dormant and just kind of divide incorrectly, though, so you shouldn't worry) | 17:06 |
| cluckj | hahaha | 17:06 |
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| kanzure | hi nsh | 17:07 |
| cluckj | don't say that! | 17:07 |
| fenn | you've awakened the dread god, run for your lives! | 17:07 |
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| JayDugger | John Walker, psychic powers, eh? | 17:08 |
| fenn | orange magic shell + coconut ice cream is probably the most addictive food i've ever eaten | 17:08 |
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| JayDugger | fenn: that sounds less appetizing than brussels sprouts. | 17:09 |
| JayDugger | Doesn't Geortzel entertain a psychic powers hypothesis too? | 17:10 |
| kanzure | psi | 17:11 |
| JayDugger | psi, psychic, whatever--do I have the assignment right? The particular differences of label interest me about as much as fine points of Mormon heresies interest you. :) | 17:12 |
| fenn | hmm. i love it when i'm about to leave any somebody says "take your camera for the riots." | 17:13 |
| JayDugger | Sounds like a fun time--until the cops show up. | 17:14 |
| fenn | yeah well i'm going to oakland on bart, apparently some cop shot someone on bart recently | 17:15 |
| fenn | not a fun kind of riot | 17:15 |
| JayDugger | No, probably not. | 17:15 |
| mheld | anybody have any good bio-inspired AI videos/lectures/books that they'd recommend (other than henry markram's stuff) | 17:33 |
| kanzure | pretty interesting how bioethics.gov was asking to start the next human genome project | 17:33 |
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| cluckj | lol | 17:37 |
| cluckj | what's the next one? | 17:37 |
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| kanzure | hi jennifer | 17:43 |
| jennifer | hey | 17:43 |
| kanzure | what brings you hear today? :) | 17:43 |
| kanzure | hm | 17:43 |
| kanzure | *here | 17:43 |
| jennifer | do you know what happened to brian bishop's biohacking toolkit ? I was trying to GIT it at http://heybryan.org/biotech.git | 17:44 |
| kanzure | i'm bryan. | 17:44 |
| kanzure | basically my website is under extreme load all the time because i can't afford big enough pipes | 17:45 |
| jennifer | oh *blushes and waves shyly* nice to meet you | 17:45 |
| kanzure | second, biotech.git was just a lot of files poorly organized :P | 17:45 |
| kanzure | there have been some projects that have usurped it | 17:46 |
| jennifer | oh I see. | 17:46 |
| jennifer | like the openwetware I assume? | 17:46 |
| kanzure | well, for documents, yes | 17:47 |
| kanzure | but also some more software-oriented projects to organize the information | 17:47 |
| cluckj | Great idea -- I think that making DIY Bio known to them would be of great benefit to the community, and to the public at large. I agree that it doesn't have to be a sort of "mission statement" or anything like that, just something that says that people in the DIY Bio community are interested in, and want to take part in, the discussions and deliberations being made during the bioethics committee meeting. | 17:47 |
| cluckj | Jon | 17:47 |
| kanzure | there was a talk i gave in 2009 on 'skdb' for instance | 17:47 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/ has the videos | 17:47 |
| cluckj | how's that sound? | 17:47 |
| kanzure | it's sort of a way to functionally encode the knowledge | 17:47 |
| jennifer | i was just listening to it on youtube actually :-) | 17:48 |
| kanzure | cluckj: yes that's fantastic | 17:48 |
| cluckj | cool | 17:48 |
| kanzure | jennifer: oh cool :) what about the 2010 talks from last month on DIY transhuman tech? i don't know if that's in your range of interests or not | 17:48 |
| cluckj | sent | 17:48 |
| jennifer | or actually the hplus summit 2010 speech on youtube | 17:48 |
| kanzure | aha. the links on gnusha.org is another talk, on how to use principles from linux (in particular, the debian project) as it applies to open source hardware and DIY projects | 17:49 |
| kanzure | i kind of did them backwards (more technical talk first then the hplus summit talk) | 17:49 |
| kanzure | cluckj: thank you :) | 17:49 |
| cluckj | yup, no problem | 17:49 |
| jennifer | oh ok | 17:50 |
| pmetzger | moo | 17:52 |
| kanzure | oink' | 17:52 |
| pmetzger | diy farm noises! | 17:52 |
| jennifer | I heard a little about diy biohacking a couple years ago on the web, but suddenly got more curious today (I'm a noob) | 17:53 |
| kanzure | well, if you're interested in /news/ about it, i collect a list here: | 17:53 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F | 17:53 |
| kanzure | and if you're interested in techniques, that's largely something that still occurs by people talking with each other :) | 17:54 |
| kanzure | (and pass links to various obscure documents back and forth) | 17:54 |
| cluckj | you've gotta know the secret handshake, though | 17:55 |
| jennifer | hehe oh I bet | 17:56 |
| jennifer | so whats a good place to go for someone just getting started | 17:57 |
| kanzure | probably in here. | 17:57 |
| kanzure | but also http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | 17:57 |
| cluckj | in here or a local diy bio meetup | 17:57 |
| kanzure | yeah, what general continent are you on? | 17:58 |
| kanzure | canada? that's a continent these days, right? | 17:58 |
| kanzure | there's a diybio-vancouver group | 17:58 |
| kanzure | but its "glorious leader" (so to speak) is currently at singularity university for the summer | 17:58 |
| jennifer | I'm in the san francisco bay area in california | 17:59 |
| kanzure | oh, there's tons of groups in your area | 17:59 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/diybio-sf | 18:00 |
| kanzure | also http://biocurious.org/ | 18:00 |
| jennifer | I heard something about a bio hackerspace thats trying to get funding to get setup in the southbay I believe | 18:00 |
| kanzure | biocurious.org is it | 18:00 |
| jennifer | ahhh ok, thanks | 18:00 |
| cluckj | http://opensciencesummit.com/ | 18:03 |
| kanzure | http://singularityu.org/ | 18:04 |
| cluckj | oh good joe took my suggestion | 18:07 |
| kanzure | which one was that? | 18:07 |
| cluckj | pay-what-you-can | 18:07 |
| cluckj | for students | 18:07 |
| kanzure | fakerspace: corporate start-up masquerading as a community hackerspace | 18:07 |
| cluckj | haha | 18:07 |
| cluckj | you think so? | 18:08 |
| jennifer | hehe | 18:08 |
| kanzure | joe convinced me that none of the bad entanglements are in biocurious as with his previous commercial ventures | 18:09 |
| kanzure | but still.. i don't know. | 18:09 |
| cluckj | heh | 18:09 |
| kanzure | social "crap" seems to follow joe | 18:09 |
| kanzure | or joe seems to follow it | 18:09 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure which | 18:09 |
| kanzure | i mean, he doesn't bring it with him | 18:10 |
| kanzure | but it certainly "follows" him regardless | 18:10 |
| cluckj | a sort of crap-magnet? | 18:10 |
| kanzure | dunno. i think he finds it. | 18:10 |
| cluckj | hee | 18:10 |
| cluckj | hehe | 18:10 |
| cluckj | are there other people in a position of power in biocurious to temper whatever crap might show up? | 18:11 |
| kanzure | no.. eri seems pretty corporate | 18:11 |
| cluckj | hrm | 18:12 |
| kanzure | joe has a tendency to be very thorough with his work, but i dunno if he can convince people about it :) | 18:12 |
| cluckj | he took the crap first-impression I got of him and convinced me otherwise | 18:12 |
| cluckj | so I'll give him that, at least | 18:13 |
| kanzure | yeah, he's a good guy for sure | 18:13 |
| kanzure | he used to hang out in here | 18:14 |
| kanzure | or at least he did once or twice | 18:14 |
| cluckj | hm | 18:17 |
| kanzure | so, cha0s chewed through the optical mouse cabling | 18:17 |
| kanzure | and i tried to get the mouse to start working again by playing around with the bite mark | 18:18 |
| kanzure | as soon as the optical mouse turns back on, the entire system crashes | 18:18 |
| cluckj | haha | 18:18 |
| cluckj | living up to his name, isn't he | 18:18 |
| kanzure | named after the forces of chaos for a reason :) | 18:18 |
| JayDugger | chaos the cat? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:21 |
| JayDugger | Ah. | 18:21 |
| kanzure | i'm not really concerned about the behavior | 18:21 |
| kanzure | what's more alarming is how the computer just crashed | 18:21 |
| kanzure | leave it to a cat to find the most inventive ways to crash linux: by chewing through the mouse cabling? wtf | 18:21 |
| cluckj | file a bug report | 18:23 |
| jennifer | hehe, needs kevlar coating | 18:24 |
| JayDugger | needs a beating. | 18:28 |
| JayDugger | Too late unless you catch it the act. | 18:28 |
| JayDugger | One of my cats used to sleep atop the set-top box, and another slept on a laptop. | 18:29 |
| JayDugger | They got quite good at not getting caught in the act. | 18:29 |
| jennifer | spray the cables with "bitterapple" (i had a rabbit that would snip my cables too once) | 18:29 |
| JayDugger | Good idea. Does that work well? | 18:30 |
| jennifer | seemed to, he took a taste, and made a face at me, and didn't try it again | 18:31 |
| * kanzure reads http://bioethics.gov/documents/Letter-from-President-Obama-05.20.10.pdf | 18:45 | |
| kanzure | "My team has discovered the majority of genes known to science." | 18:56 |
| kanzure | it's probably true. | 18:56 |
| jennifer | known to science.... | 18:58 |
| jennifer | lol | 18:58 |
| jennifer | oi politicians | 18:58 |
| kanzure | that was venter :) | 18:58 |
| cluckj | venter is an asshole :D | 18:59 |
| kanzure | an asshole with deep pockets not totally screwing things up | 18:59 |
| cluckj | don't forget super famous | 18:59 |
| ENKI-][ | super-fame probably doesn't help as much as the garden variety fame | 19:00 |
| kanzure | i wonder how much of a chance venter has of becoming super-ridiculously-famous enough to i.e. reach public figure fame | 19:01 |
| JayDugger | I don't understand. Please give an example of "public figure fame." | 19:02 |
| kanzure | "little kids being indoctrinated into Einstein worship heroism at a young age" | 19:03 |
| kanzure | that sorta fame | 19:03 |
| kanzure | or other popular science figures | 19:03 |
| JayDugger | Einstein, Sagan, who else? | 19:03 |
| kanzure | sagan isn't hardly as popular as hawking :( | 19:03 |
| jennifer | edison - don't look at tesla | 19:03 |
| kanzure | although sagan had a good run when he was alive, i think | 19:03 |
| JayDugger | Depends on your age group. | 19:03 |
| kanzure | yeah, nobody cares about tesla :( | 19:03 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: agreed. sagan is very age group dependent | 19:03 |
| kanzure | or if you're retarded like i am, you happen to know about him | 19:03 |
| kanzure | einstein, sagan, feynman, hawking, edison | 19:04 |
| kanzure | although edison was more of an inventor :) | 19:04 |
| JayDugger | I wrote him (Sagan) a fan letter as a 3rd grader. | 19:04 |
| kanzure | cute. | 19:04 |
| cluckj | watson... | 19:04 |
| kanzure | that racist mofo? | 19:04 |
| JayDugger | Watson doesn't get fan letters. | 19:04 |
| kanzure | :P | 19:04 |
| cluckj | also a super-famous asshole | 19:04 |
| kanzure | i don't think people worship watson | 19:04 |
| JayDugger | If Venter & Exxon get cheap synthetic fossil fuels as a result of their join work, then Venter will probably become as famous as "einstein, sagan, feynman, hawking, edison." | 19:05 |
| JayDugger | Feel free to disagree. We can work up a bet and take it to a prediction market. | 19:06 |
| kanzure | huh george whitesides looks entirely unlike i expected him to http://www.rsc.org/images/FEATURE-enzymes-250_tcm18-92694.jpg | 19:06 |
| JayDugger | You look shorter on-line than in real-life. :) | 19:06 |
| kanzure | compare to george church: http://www.rechargenews.com/multimedia/archive/00031/George_Church__LS9_c_31737a.jpg | 19:07 |
| kanzure | who looks deceptively similar to http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/richard-stallman.jpg | 19:07 |
| kanzure | and venter: http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2008/01/venter_genome_630px.jpg | 19:08 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 19:08 |
| cluckj | everybody knows who watson is | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | glc-player (http://www.glc-player.net/) GLC_Player is an Open Source software used to view 3d models | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | (COLLADA 3DXML OBJ 3DS STL OFF COFF Format) and to navigate | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | easily in these models. | 19:09 |
| kanzure | everyone knows who watson is, but i don't know if they care enough or not | 19:09 |
| JayDugger | Sample bias, much? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | dunno | 19:10 |
| cluckj | maybe, maybe not | 19:10 |
| kanzure | i typed in "max more" and got back this: http://www.natasha.cc/images/Natasha,Max,Shatner.jpg presumably everyone knows the guy on the right | 19:10 |
| JayDugger | I bet most Anglophone people would imagine John Watson, M.D. if prompted with the surname and no other context. | 19:11 |
| JayDugger | Wow. N.V.M. has long fingers. | 19:11 |
| cluckj | I dunno about that | 19:12 |
| kanzure | natasha's hands are super tiny | 19:12 |
| JayDugger | They don't look it in the image. | 19:12 |
| JayDugger | I've not met her in person, so my impressions have a flaw. | 19:13 |
| kanzure | i can't believe i'm debating the size of natasha's hands on irc at 9 at night | 19:13 |
| cluckj | iirc she was pretty small | 19:13 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, $0.02 for the OT jar. | 19:13 |
| kanzure | no, i brought this stuff up | 19:13 |
| kanzure | but i should be doing something more interesting | 19:13 |
| cluckj | haha | 19:13 |
| kanzure | like killing babies or plotting world domination | 19:13 |
| JayDugger | or coating cables with bitterapple flavor. | 19:13 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:14 |
| JayDugger | or reading Yudkowsky's H.P. fanfic. | 19:14 |
| kanzure | ehh.. no | 19:14 |
| kanzure | i read CEV the other day | 19:14 |
| JayDugger | :) | 19:14 |
| kanzure | i was very disappointed | 19:14 |
| JayDugger | And here I thought you just hated H.P.. | 19:14 |
| kanzure | nah, just eli :P | 19:14 |
| kanzure | well, i don't hate him | 19:14 |
| kanzure | just his ideas | 19:14 |
| kanzure | cluckj: btw, i might have something juicy for you | 19:15 |
| * kanzure digs around | 19:15 | |
| JayDugger | You DO hate H.P., though, right? | 19:15 |
| JayDugger | If not, I will have to pull my foot from my mouth. | 19:15 |
| kanzure | cluckj: http://designfiles.org/~bryan/sl4.log | 19:17 |
| kanzure | sl4.org used to have a #sl4 irc channel | 19:18 |
| kanzure | oh cool, emil is in there. | 19:20 |
| kanzure | <Eliezer>I don't wish Ben Goertzel would get run over by a truck, but I wish he'd get a clue | 19:22 |
| JayDugger | Kanzure, do you have an Epilog? | 19:22 |
| kanzure | Oct 12 17:45 <Eliezer> #sl4 is not logged | 19:22 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: no, i have a ULS laser cutter | 19:23 |
| cluckj | lol | 19:25 |
| cluckj | when I hear evolutionary psychology I reach for my pistol | 19:26 |
| kanzure | heh | 19:26 |
| pmetzger | I guess EY writes HP fanfic when he's not busy creating the friendly AI which will whisk us all off to paradise. | 19:26 |
| cluckj | kanzure should I be looking for something specific? | 19:27 |
| kanzure | no, it's just logs from #sl4 | 19:27 |
| cluckj | oh | 19:27 |
| pmetzger | does the sl4 mailing list still exist? | 19:28 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:28 |
| kanzure | but it's full of crap | 19:28 |
| pmetzger | (is there an sl4 IRC channel at this point?) | 19:28 |
| kanzure | nowhere near as interesting as it once might have been | 19:28 |
| kanzure | nope, no more #sl4 | 19:28 |
| kanzure | but the last i saw it was in 2007 on irc.lucifer.com | 19:29 |
| pmetzger | It was not interesting for the brief period when I looked at it. (The mailing list.) | 19:29 |
| pmetzger | years and years ago. | 19:29 |
| pmetzger | It was full of people speculating about the ethics of things they couldn't ever build. | 19:29 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: did you ever see FakeEliezer? | 19:29 |
| pmetzger | yes | 19:29 |
| kanzure | had to ask. | 19:30 |
| JayDugger | Good night, everybody. | 19:31 |
| kanzure | night | 19:31 |
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| pmetzger | I was around the night you created that. | 19:38 |
| cluckj | kanzure there's interesting singularity stuff in there | 19:39 |
| cluckj | thanks | 19:39 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: i created it? | 19:40 |
| kanzure | i wish. | 19:40 |
| kanzure | but, i don't know what i would post | 19:40 |
| pmetzger | Well, the date someone created it. | 19:41 |
| pmetzger | you pointed it out to me immediately it seemed. | 19:41 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:41 |
| cluckj | Oct 21 13:12<Eliezer>there is no forgiveness for blaspheming Google | 19:46 |
| cluckj | Oct 21 13:12<Eliezer>go to Alta Vista! | 19:46 |
| cluckj | bwahahahahaha | 19:46 |
| kanzure | anyone remember how to enable keyboard-based mouse navigation via the keyboard in kde3.5? | 19:48 |
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| kanzure | got it | 20:05 |
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| kanzure | national institute of aging http://www.nia.nih.gov/http://www.nia.nih.gov/ | 20:08 |
| kanzure | er | 20:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.nia.nih.gov/ | 20:08 |
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| kanzure | "TechShop - for molecules and matter what Kinko's does for data." | 20:10 |
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| kanzure | http://www.markusschmidt.eu/publications.html | 20:17 |
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| kanzure | i should just make a voice-to-mouse program | 20:23 |
| kanzure | maybe i can control my mouse by whistling | 20:24 |
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| kanzure | hrm | 20:57 |
| kanzure | "These companies pay a licensing fee in exchange for support for these products in the Arduino software and documentation. " | 20:57 |
| kanzure | "These are the products that we feel provide the best overall experience and utility to the Arduino community. They include boards from three manufacturers: SmartProjects (in Italy), SparkFun, and Gravitech (both in the US). These companies pay a licensing fee in exchange for support for these products in the Arduino software and documentation." | 20:57 |
| kanzure | a licensing fee? in exchange for support? | 20:58 |
| kanzure | why not just charge them for support | 20:58 |
| kanzure | http://designfiles.org/~bryan/meetlog/meetlog.txt updated at the bottom with singularityu people | 21:11 |
| kanzure | i think i have most of the gsp10 students.. not sure about all of the spakers though | 21:12 |
| kanzure | *speakers | 21:12 |
| kanzure | oh fooey, i have a duplicate jonathan cluck on there | 21:13 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jul 09 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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