| --- Log opened Sat Jul 17 04:16:17 2010 | ||
| -!- gnusha [~gnusha@131.252.130.248] has joined #hplusroadmap | 04:21 | |
| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n39RK4inzg http://designfiles.org/~bryan/hplus-summit-2009/ http://heybryan.org/ | 04:21 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Mon Jan 11 11:14:52 2010] | 04:21 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 04:21 | |
| [ AJollyLife] [ fenn ] [ kardan ] [ nimak ] [ superkuh ] | 04:21 | |
| [ augur ] [ ghchinoy ] [ kive ] [ Noahj ] [ ToyKeeper] | 04:21 | |
| [ bkero ] [ gnusha ] [ klafka ] [ nsh ] [ Utopiah ] | 04:21 | |
| [ CIA-46 ] [ guibou ] [ kristianpaul] [ nsh_ ] [ ybit ] | 04:21 | |
| [ clemux ] [ Ian_Daniher] [ kyb3R ] [ Overand ] [ ybit2 ] | 04:21 | |
| [ drazak ] [ JayDugger ] [ mage2 ] [ Phreedom] | 04:21 | |
| [ egeste ] [ Joeconyers ] [ memenode ] [ QuantumG] | 04:21 | |
| [ elmom ] [ jrayhawk ] [ nchaimov ] [ shepazu ] | 04:21 | |
| [ ENKI-][ ] [ kanzure ] [ niftyzero ] [ splicer ] | 04:21 | |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 41 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 41 normal] | 04:21 | |
| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Fri Jan 29 23:48:24 2010 | 04:21 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 1 secs | 04:21 | |
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| fenn | ybit2: because i ran out of space on the free version, and wanted my stuff to show up in peoples' searches on flickr | 05:30 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | i don't think we should be conflating open hardware with "stealing" mp3's | 05:34 |
| fenn | had i known the reprap v1 extruder didn't actually work, i would have bought materials and stuff for a later version extruder that actually did work, and used it in the time frame when i had regular-ish access to a lathe | 05:38 |
| fenn | sorry i dont have a real and yet soundbiteable situation | 05:39 |
| fenn | catchy, accurate, easy to think of: pick two | 05:40 |
| fenn | kanzure that freebase query yields a rather interesting list | 05:44 |
| fenn | ybit2: i'm probably going to be buying some 1TB hard drives, how long do you need to store it and what's the expected time frame? | 05:46 |
| fenn | aaactually, i'll probably be buying some 500GB drives, because i dont really need 1TB | 05:48 |
| fenn | WD scorpio blue 500GB $54 new, and has good power consumption specs | 05:50 |
| fenn | this for my wearable eventually, good to have little hard drives around though | 05:51 |
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| kanzure | "I am sorry to spoil the party, but I have some serious doubts about your project. You also developed the Open Gel box which sells for: 50? No! 100? No! but 500 $" | 07:28 |
| kanzure | "This- taken together with your detailed "business-plan" aka "The money will go towards R&D, third party testing, and optimization." Simply my impression is, that you are trying to make money off OpenSource without really knowing what your doing. Why 6000$? Why does third party testing cost money (your friend in the lab just giving it a try)? What exactly is "R&D"? " | 07:29 |
| kanzure | that was from http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/930368578/openpcr-open-source-biotech-on-your-desktop/comments | 07:29 |
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| kanzure | fenn: cathal replied to you here http://openpcr.org/build-yours/ | 07:31 |
| kanzure | "maybe you're used to software, which is free to develop" baaah | 07:32 |
| kanzure | i want to hit him over the head | 07:32 |
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| kyb3R | I was not aware of the costs of hw development until I started one :) | 08:12 |
| kyb3R | and we dont even need to do third party testing, just to build a prototype which anyone could follow | 08:12 |
| kyb3R | by reading the blueprints | 08:13 |
| kyb3R | which is a mobile gadget | 08:14 |
| kanzure | kyb3R: my point is that software development is not free-of-cost | 08:14 |
| kanzure | in most cases the individual developer subsidizes his dev-time | 08:14 |
| kyb3R | true | 08:15 |
| kanzure | if anything, drawing some parameterized lines in a cad program is easier (unless it's some art work and you don't know what the end state is looking like) | 08:15 |
| kyb3R | but i was referrring to the cost of parts, circuits etc. | 08:15 |
| kyb3R | which ppl normally fuck up often, at least we have burned some circuits | 08:16 |
| kyb3R | before that project I had just written programs | 08:16 |
| kanzure | are you trying to support cathal's point that software development doesn't cost a thing? | 08:17 |
| kyb3R | no | 08:17 |
| kanzure | then you're stating facts about the cost of hardware development? | 08:17 |
| kyb3R | i'm not taking anyones side | 08:17 |
| kyb3R | yeah, which was new to me, actually the costs were not but the scale | 08:18 |
| kanzure | btw what was the context of your mobile gadget thingy? | 08:18 |
| kyb3R | real time surveillance/tracking | 08:18 |
| kanzure | that doesn't sound normal :P | 08:18 |
| kanzure | military thing? | 08:18 |
| kanzure | woops i assumed you said 'phone' somewhere | 08:19 |
| kyb3R | we build a device that can be followed on the web page, real time, and no it's for fun | 08:19 |
| kyb3R | all open source | 08:19 |
| kyb3R | including the server codr | 08:20 |
| kyb3R | code | 08:20 |
| kyb3R | nothing really revolution about it | 08:20 |
| kyb3R | just to leran | 08:20 |
| kyb3R | damn... | 08:20 |
| kyb3R | just to learn | 08:20 |
| kyb3R | actually the projects started because I wantedto follow on the map, where my cat is when he is outside sometimes for several days | 08:21 |
| kyb3R | so the device needs to be small and lightweight, must be attached to cat somehow | 08:22 |
| kyb3R | long battery life = low power consumption | 08:22 |
| kyb3R | and so on | 08:23 |
| kanzure | did you get a chance to figure out where your cat goes? | 08:23 |
| Utopiah | software development is definitly not free-of-cost... | 08:24 |
| kyb3R | no, not yet. We havent build/finished the gadget yet, it's an ongoing project | 08:24 |
| kyb3R | we have just done some minor development | 08:24 |
| kyb3R | and testing | 08:24 |
| kyb3R | something about the project is here: http://wiki.github.com/kyber/catss/ ->development notes | 08:26 |
| kanzure | does anyone know a sufficiently public way to address cathal's point and his misunderstanding ("software development is free")? | 08:39 |
| Utopiah | http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/06/microsoft_tops.html | 08:40 |
| kanzure | does anyone here have an iphone? | 08:56 |
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| JayDugger | My girlfriend does, kanzure. | 09:07 |
| kanzure | are you near her at the moment? | 09:15 |
| kanzure | i'd like someone to do a search for me | 09:15 |
| kanzure | the online apple app store doesn't have a search feature that works (it seems) | 09:16 |
| Utopiah | kanzure: are you participating to the TeleXLR8 event? will you record/take note? | 10:10 |
| kanzure | i can't participate because afaik it doesn't run on linux, and i don't want to bother with a vm session | 10:15 |
| Utopiah | can't particpate here either even with a Windows install, the TelePlace VM crashed :( | 10:15 |
| kanzure | presumably a transhumanism-friendly "makerspace" http://jigsawrenaissance.org/ | 11:12 |
| kanzure | wta-seattle wiki http://st.imul.us/ | 11:12 |
| kanzure | irsrael chapter http://singulariut.com/ | 11:16 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/life-extension-hebrew | 11:17 |
| kanzure | http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/politics/israel%E2%80%99s-value-transhumanism | 11:17 |
| kyb3R | i have never figured out what's the difference between hackerspace and makerspace... | 11:19 |
| kyb3R | or bothered to think | 11:20 |
| kanzure | ack i forgot about this http://www.imminst2010.com/ | 11:20 |
| kanzure | kyb3R: i haven't been able to figure out a difference yet either | 11:20 |
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| kyb3R | I might be biased but to me it looks like a lot of "makerspaces" (not all) seem to be inventing the wheel again. Well...the hackerspaces is not new either, just a return to old community models. | 11:26 |
| Utopiah | kyb3R: I think that's the key advantage of networkeds hackerspaces and their wikis | 11:27 |
| Utopiah | including http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Design_Patterns | 11:27 |
| kanzure | a wiki about promoting transhumanism http://thpromo.pbworks.com/ | 11:28 |
| kyb3R | too me it looks more like avoiding the label hacker | 11:29 |
| kyb3R | but ppl do what they like, call it what they like, so big deal | 11:31 |
| kyb3R | I'm not a big fan of commercial(ish) hackerspaces(?) but I don't condemn them either. | 11:33 |
| kanzure | hrm guido was running for the wta board in 2008 :P cute http://transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/more/vote2008/ | 11:33 |
| klafka | guido van rossum? | 12:11 |
| klafka | oh | 12:11 |
| klafka | that would have been funny though | 12:12 |
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| klafka | i didn't realize there were commercial hackerspaces | 12:12 |
| klafka | that's a bit lame | 12:12 |
| kanzure | huh since when did milw0rm.com shut down? | 12:18 |
| kanzure | klafka: check 'em out: http://biocurious.org/ | 12:18 |
| kanzure | also http://techshop.ws/ but at least it doesn't claim to be a hackerspace :) | 12:18 |
| Utopiah | kanzure: TelePlace ASIM event is recorded thus should be available soon | 12:20 |
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| ybit2 | kanzure: what kind of search? details plz :) | 13:02 |
| kanzure | what? | 13:10 |
| kanzure | on the iphone? i'd rather not | 13:10 |
| ybit2 | fenn: i knew there was a monthly upload limit, but are you saying there's a total limit as well? | 13:19 |
| ybit2 | the content is going to be transferred for only about a day, but i should be covered | 13:20 |
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| kanzure | anyone know about matplc? http://freshmeat.net/projects/matplc/ | 13:51 |
| kanzure | "MatPLC is a software-based PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) for industrial automation. Ultimately, it should be possible to run a factory using this software. Currently, one should keep in mind that it is still at the testing stage, and is therefore not suitable for applications where incorrect operation would cause damage or danger. " | 13:51 |
| kanzure | it's by curt wuollet who i found because of a post of his linking to the freedomdefined.org oshw page | 13:52 |
| splicer2 | watching you on youtube: "DIY Transhuman Tech - Bryan Bishop - Hplus Summit 2010 (part 1 of 2)" | 13:53 |
| kanzure | http://code.google.com/p/automforge/ | 13:53 |
| kanzure | dunno where this presentation deck came from but it conflates "free beer" with a free-beer-production-machine (heh) | 13:54 |
| kanzure | http://www.denx.de/en/pub/News/Xum2009AbstractsAndPresentations/Beremiz_Roadmap.pdf | 13:54 |
| kanzure | News | 13:54 |
| kanzure | ^the pdf link was found on http://www.nlebas.com/ | 13:54 |
| splicer2 | "free microbes" | 13:55 |
| kanzure | hg clone http://lolitech.fr/dev/beremiz | 13:55 |
| kanzure | hg clone http://lolitech.fr/dev/plcopeneditor | 13:55 |
| kanzure | they are calling beremiz an "open source automation framework" | 13:56 |
| kanzure | http://lolitech.fr/ | 13:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP/1.0) | 13:59 |
| ENKI-][ | you figure i could clone a hero 1 with an arduino? | 14:03 |
| ENKI-][ | i think i might run out of pins | 14:03 |
| fenn | "maybe you're used to software, which is free to develop" <- they already had 160% of their requested budget when i made that comment, no reason to hold back stuff they already had created, bastards just trying to squeeze every last drop out of kickstarter, which is a poor business plan in my opinion | 14:07 |
| fenn | the cost of hardware development is severely overrated anyway | 14:08 |
| fenn | only when you're totally ignorant and have to have other people do every step of the process | 14:08 |
| kanzure | everyone is eating it up and calling them "geniuses" | 14:15 |
| fenn | kyb3R: why do you need a msp430? aren't really doing a lot of computation, seems to me arduino would be more accepted by 'makers' | 14:18 |
| fenn | does msp430 even have an open source compiler? (i dont think so) | 14:19 |
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| kyb3R | fenn: it was decision made by my co-developer. We first had Arduino (which would have brought more blog respect). | 14:21 |
| ENKI-][ | if there isn't an open source compiler for it gcc will be patched to generate object files for it within six months. this applies to everything. | 14:22 |
| fenn | i dont really get matplc/beremiz.. would just use emc myself | 14:22 |
| kyb3R | he had some good reasons, which I have hard time remembering now | 14:22 |
| fenn | may be good enough for you, but not for me :P | 14:22 |
| fenn | ENKI-][: it's been a couple years i think | 14:23 |
| fenn | huh, this page makes it sound like it works http://mspgcc.sourceforge.net/ | 14:24 |
| ENKI-][ | if there's one thing i've learned from the open source world, it's that people will try to develop for ANYTHING | 14:26 |
| ENKI-][ | it's quite pleasant really | 14:26 |
| fenn | wow since 2002 | 14:26 |
| ENKI-][ | after your third gameboy-controlled furby with an AVR cartridge you are no longer surprised ;-) | 14:27 |
| fenn | well, all i gotta say is 'packaging packaging packaging' | 14:28 |
| fenn | michael anissimov doesn't look anything like his internet picture | 14:29 |
| fenn | heh 'free microbes' == 'free beer'? | 14:31 |
| fenn | i'm slow. | 14:32 |
| genehacker | speaking of free microbes, I wondering about setting up a modified e.coli bioreactor that runs off of waste heat from the pilot light in my stove | 14:35 |
| ENKI-][ | my preferred method of getting free microbes is to stop showering | 14:37 |
| fenn | genehacker: you mean a pot full of juice with an aquarium bubbler? | 14:37 |
| genehacker | no I was thinking something smaller than that | 14:38 |
| fenn | kanzure: http://derisilab.ucsf.edu/index.php?page=3D | 14:41 |
| fenn | more test tube racks.. | 14:41 |
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| kanzure | fenn: i keep thinking that michael looks like a "skater" (i say that fondly) and can never recognize him from his internet pics | 14:47 |
| kanzure | he's the guy i bumped into in nyc once and had to ask him who he was :( (he recognized me, though) | 14:48 |
| splicer2 | fenn: yes, and as in "information wants to be free" | 14:48 |
| splicer2 | (biohacking as a hackerculture is fascinating to me) | 14:49 |
| splicer2 | (much more so than biohacking as a maker/diy subculture) | 14:52 |
| splicer2 | (therefore biopunk) | 14:54 |
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| fenn | haha choice quote from tito "What would be great is if there were CAD files for everything out there," | 15:07 |
| fenn | context: searching for heatsinks | 15:08 |
| kanzure | how about some linkcontext instead | 15:08 |
| kanzure | :P | 15:09 |
| fenn | openpcr.org search for 'cad' | 15:10 |
| kanzure | what to do, what to do | 15:13 |
| fenn | god damn, it's impossible to find detailed non-google maps | 15:19 |
| fenn | lamesauce http://igargoyle.com/streetview/ | 15:22 |
| fenn | i wonder how different these terms of service would look in a world without patents http://www.google.com/intl/en_us/help/terms_maps.html | 15:22 |
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| genehacker | WTF | 15:47 |
| genehacker | PLCs only run about about 10 loops per second? | 15:47 |
| genehacker | I don't get it why in this day in age is something that slow | 15:48 |
| genehacker | fluidics is probably faster than that | 15:48 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 15:48 |
| kristianpaul | kanzure: what's the status of apt-get for hardware? | 15:49 |
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| genehacker | what are PLCs used for anyway? | 15:50 |
| kristianpaul | PLC = programable logic controler? | 15:50 |
| kristianpaul | industry stuff for automation process | 15:50 |
| genehacker | yeah | 15:51 |
| kristianpaul | you code it with a logic-like languages | 15:51 |
| genehacker | what sort of automation stuff | 15:51 |
| kristianpaul | it varies | 15:51 |
| kristianpaul | from the simple PID | 15:52 |
| kristianpaul | or assebly line | 15:52 |
| genehacker | what's the most complex thing I could do with one | 15:52 |
| genehacker | PID really? | 15:52 |
| genehacker | you don't need super-fast reaction times or anything? | 15:52 |
| kristianpaul | yeah there are boards for that | 15:52 |
| genehacker | could you balance a pole with a PLC? | 15:52 |
| kristianpaul | hmm.. | 15:53 |
| kristianpaul | not sure i just used for basic stuff in a line | 15:53 |
| kristianpaul | yuu shouldbe aware that plc is easilly wire to sensors (wich surelly are more complex than the PLC it seld) | 15:54 |
| genehacker | anything like driving robotic arms or position stuff | 15:54 |
| kristianpaul | s/seld/self | 15:54 |
| kristianpaul | the good about PLC is that is reliable/robust | 15:55 |
| genehacker | yeah I figured as much | 15:55 |
| genehacker | could we control reprap with PLCs? | 15:56 |
| kristianpaul | hehe | 15:56 |
| genehacker | if so then maybe my fluidic reprap idea isn't half crazy | 15:56 |
| kristianpaul | not sure at all i just did basic stuff in the past | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | not | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | if you can make it faster sure not | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | remenber computers... ;) | 15:57 |
| genehacker | especially since I figured out that it's possible to make fluidic logic elements that are on the order of microns | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | how small? | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | i think we should find the best analogy in our inside (bodies) | 15:58 |
| genehacker | so small we might have trouble making them | 15:58 |
| genehacker | anyway we don't need computers to control reprap | 15:58 |
| kristianpaul | true | 15:59 |
| genehacker | all reprap does is just interpret g-code sent to it from the computer | 15:59 |
| kristianpaul | until we finout that a MIPS is well , alot.. | 15:59 |
| genehacker | it's basically a modernized version of a punched tape driven CNC machine | 15:59 |
| kristianpaul | i read somethign here i think from kanzure that orgainc processor can achieve Mhz speeds | 15:59 |
| kristianpaul | at least 1K is a starting point.. | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | ah but there is need for memory.. | 16:00 |
| genehacker | whoa? | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | so. | 16:00 |
| genehacker | Mhz speed? | 16:00 |
| genehacker | how? | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | nt sure | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | nt sure | 16:00 |
| genehacker | was it DNA logic or something like that | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | lets wait kanzure clarify* | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | not sure | 16:00 |
| genehacker | if we only had a way to get signals out of it | 16:02 |
| kristianpaul | can we have 1000 bits memory with fluids? | 16:02 |
| kristianpaul | genehacker: yeah thats tricky | 16:02 |
| genehacker | errr I'm not sure how to do memory | 16:02 |
| genehacker | at least on the small scale | 16:02 |
| kristianpaul | i think thats first | 16:02 |
| genehacker | unless we do droplet memory | 16:03 |
| kristianpaul | droplet? | 16:03 |
| kristianpaul | you mena like water drops? | 16:03 |
| kristianpaul | s/mean/mean | 16:03 |
| genehacker | a droplet of water/oil moves between 2 states of blocking flow/not blocking flow | 16:03 |
| kristianpaul | is that prone to vibration noise ? | 16:04 |
| kristianpaul | i think we could use reprap to mix chemicals and make organic compounds | 16:04 |
| genehacker | it could be | 16:04 |
| kristianpaul | may be a open implementation of a OLED is starting point | 16:04 |
| genehacker | but fluidic signals are vibrations and one can make it so that fluidics work in high vibration environments | 16:05 |
| kristianpaul | how is preserved over the time? | 16:05 |
| genehacker | if one makes droplets small enough they probably won't be affected by vibration | 16:05 |
| kristianpaul | i see | 16:05 |
| genehacker | how is what preserved over time? | 16:05 |
| genehacker | the droplet? | 16:05 |
| kristianpaul | i mean memory | 16:05 |
| kristianpaul | yes | 16:05 |
| genehacker | it doesn't move | 16:06 |
| kristianpaul | what about hot/cold enviroments? | 16:06 |
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| genehacker | I'm thinking oil and water might be better as far as droplets go | 16:06 |
| genehacker | don't let it get too cold | 16:06 |
| kristianpaul | heh | 16:06 |
| kristianpaul | chips cant be too hot :p | 16:07 |
| genehacker | also big fluidic logic elements have no problem working glowing white hot | 16:07 |
| genehacker | or in high radiation, high magnetic field environments | 16:07 |
| kristianpaul | 2013... | 16:07 |
| kristianpaul | xD | 16:08 |
| kristianpaul | how is used right now? | 16:08 |
| kristianpaul | fluids logic | 16:08 |
| genehacker | exactly I want to make reprap so it can't be EMP'd by pesky humans | 16:08 |
| genehacker | very little | 16:08 |
| kristianpaul | or | 16:09 |
| kristianpaul | maybe reprap need other bootstraping technology | 16:10 |
| genehacker | it's mostly in obscure applications like military hardware, aviation stuff, and mining equipment where explosive gases might be present | 16:10 |
| kristianpaul | :O | 16:10 |
| genehacker | it's also used to control foutains | 16:10 |
| genehacker | sort of like the same circuit for flashing LEDs but with jets of water as the output | 16:10 |
| kristianpaul | oh | 16:11 |
| kristianpaul | you have the schmatics? | 16:11 |
| fenn | genehacker: i think that was supposed to be '10kHz', not '10Hz' | 16:12 |
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| genehacker | that's still about as fast as fluidics are | 16:13 |
| genehacker | http://www.tippettsfountains.com/index.php this is the company that makes fluidic fountains | 16:13 |
| genehacker | no schematics | 16:14 |
| genehacker | also they have a pretty good primer on fluidics | 16:14 |
| genehacker | http://www.tippettsfountains.com/fluidicsbasics.php | 16:14 |
| genehacker | written by the one of the top researchers in the field who also happens to own the company | 16:15 |
| genehacker | hmmm... I really need to find out how much power microfluidic logic elements use | 16:18 |
| genehacker | it seems the switching pressure is about a millimeter of water, but they don't say anything about the power pressure | 16:19 |
| splicer2 | 11 year old Gabriels biobrick robot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bfWnQ_9LSM | 16:26 |
| genehacker | an 11 year old did that? | 16:37 |
| genehacker | how he do the inverse kinematics? | 16:37 |
| genehacker | I thought those were supposed to be hard for parallel manipulators? | 16:37 |
| splicer2 | genehacker: an unusual 11 year old but still. | 16:41 |
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| splicer2 | (http://2009.igem.org/Team:Washington-Software/Team/Gabriel) | 16:42 |
| Utopiah | splicer2: to me even saying "High Throughput" (and understanding it) at 11y/o is impressive :/ | 16:42 |
| splicer2 | out of curiosity, would the robot he built be considered maker/diy as he assembled it from a commercial kit? | 16:46 |
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| JayDugger | Sorry, kanzure, I wasn't near an iPhone or the computer when your responded. | 19:27 |
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| kanzure | "Filmmaker Ken Gumbs (Building Gods) is producing a documentary film about the H+ community." hm.. | 21:24 |
| kanzure | stalk: Ken Gumbs <kjgumbs@yahoo.com> | 21:24 |
| kanzure | http://transhumanism.org/Nigeria/ | 21:32 |
| kanzure | fenn: ken macleod was a wta board member once | 21:34 |
| kanzure | iirc you read a book by him | 21:34 |
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| Utopiah | why do people have to use the "God(s)" metaphor :'( | 22:03 |
| Utopiah | "Well, how to completly fuck up a difficult debate? Well I don't know let's use a totally undefined and heavily connoted topic as a basis to talk about sth else!" :'( | 22:04 |
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| QuantumG | uhh because they're insensitive to how other people find it? | 22:16 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jul 18 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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