| --- Log opened Mon Jul 19 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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| patrickmclaren | good evening | 05:01 |
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| kanzure | meeting being broadcasted from BIOFAB http://biofab.org/communitymeeting/agenda | 08:41 |
| bdesk | i hope no one loses a finger | 08:42 |
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| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/ | 09:30 |
| kanzure | now with a wiki! | 09:30 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/ or http://wiki.diyhpl.us/ or http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ | 09:30 |
| kanzure | git clone http://diyhpl.us/wiki.git but this one might change once i figure out what to call this public-facing symlink to the internal .git repository | 09:31 |
| lepton | Nice! | 09:31 |
| lepton | Good work | 09:31 |
| kanzure | "responsible pathways of clinical translation" haha | 09:51 |
| kanzure | Patients beware: commercialized stem cell treatmets on the web | 09:51 |
| kanzure | pdf: http://download.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/pdf/PIIS1934590910002833.pdf | 09:51 |
| kanzure | they are upset that third world stem cell clinics are not investing billions of dollars in traditional clinical translation (i.e. regulatory approval) | 09:51 |
| kanzure | but on the other hand, they are right that a lot of these clinics are completely full of shit | 09:52 |
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| fenn | because i know you all love lego bulldozers: http://lightfield.stanford.edu/aperture.swf?lightfield=data/bulldozer_lf/preview.zip&zoom=1 | 10:31 |
| fenn | shift click on the gray box | 10:31 |
| kanzure | so, stem cell clinics are ridiculously profitable | 10:33 |
| kanzure | there's no way they're not.. | 10:33 |
| fenn | more light field stuff (check out the neuron flyarounds at the bottom) http://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/lfmicroscope/ | 10:33 |
| kanzure | not only that but in some cases i bet the stem cell clinics are "moderately legit" in that they might actually know what they are doing | 10:33 |
| kanzure | but the majority probably are just scams | 10:33 |
| fenn | why is there "no way" they're not ridiculously profitable? | 10:33 |
| kanzure | because their patients are easily exploitable, they charge $10k+ per treatment, and their operating expenses are like $1k/mo | 10:34 |
| kanzure | in some cases they are quack and snake oil salesmen, but i suspect there might be a few legit treatment regiments and clinics out there | 10:36 |
| kanzure | ok so what happens when there's a diybio person who starts a stem cell clinic in indonesia | 10:39 |
| kanzure | and claims to be treating, uh, parkinson's | 10:39 |
| kanzure | i think it's within the realm of possibilities that there are certain drugs, medicines, devices that are not approved by the FDA or $AUTHORITY_HERE that could work (otherwise the FDA would go out of business) | 10:41 |
| klafka | kanzure, i think those stem cell clinics that arent quacks will probably kill people or do nothing still 95% of the time | 10:43 |
| kanzure | so, a lot of diybio people are interested in "garage biotech" and so on- making money off of diybio and being non-institutional | 10:43 |
| klafka | seems incredibly dangerous | 10:44 |
| klafka | to a certain degree | 10:44 |
| kanzure | so i can also imagine that some of them are going to be lulled into doing these clinics | 10:44 |
| kanzure | especially the ones that want to make money. | 10:44 |
| kanzure | klafka: agreed | 10:44 |
| klafka | i think that is especially dangerous anyitme you're dealing with translational medicine or foodstuffs | 10:44 |
| klafka | that's totally gonna fucking give biotech a bad name | 10:44 |
| kanzure | yes | 10:45 |
| kanzure | but on the other hand, the whole point of diybio is non-institutionalization | 10:45 |
| kanzure | so how do we uh | 10:45 |
| kanzure | uhh | 10:45 |
| klafka | create safeguards to prevent that from happening? | 10:46 |
| klafka | the inherent issue is we have no fucking clue what we're doing | 10:46 |
| kanzure | but what if there is some legitimate but non-institutionalized project? | 10:46 |
| kanzure | see, something isn't adding up | 10:46 |
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| klafka | i mean the problem with biotech is generally speaking we have no fucking clue what we're doing, we have a at best sketchy understanding of single gene changes, and a really shitty understanding of multiple gene interactions and their overall phenotypic effects particularly related to the ecosystem | 10:47 |
| kanzure | ok and for some reason that means we need to submit to $GOVT_AUTHORITY_FIGURE? | 10:48 |
| klafka | the admittedly shady companies have still put billions of dollars into their GMO crops and yet they still fuck up | 10:48 |
| klafka | no, it means the likelihood for some DIYbio person fucking up and having shit rained down upon the whole community is very high | 10:48 |
| klafka | so it should be stringently self policing or stick to tinkertoys | 10:49 |
| klafka | but those two things aren't gonna happen | 10:49 |
| kanzure | "fucking up" in that case comes later | 10:49 |
| kanzure | what comes first is they announce they are doing a stem cell clinic or something | 10:49 |
| kanzure | but i can't help but think that there's a way to do it "right" | 10:50 |
| kanzure | er | 10:50 |
| klafka | probably still the right way would definitely be "not in the us" | 10:51 |
| klafka | because even before they actually do fuck up | 10:51 |
| kanzure | well yeah | 10:51 |
| klafka | the AMA and everyone else would be raining shit down on them | 10:51 |
| kanzure | of course | 10:51 |
| kanzure | i don't know how to describe my disconnect here- i agree that snake oil salesmen and these quack/shady clinics are pretty evil | 10:51 |
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| klafka | actually i guess stem cell clinics are the least of my worries | 10:53 |
| klafka | i'm still more worried about people accidentally creating some ridiculous ecosystem fucker uper | 10:53 |
| klafka | *upper | 10:53 |
| klafka | stem cells, just `1 person dies typically | 10:53 |
| kanzure | maybe lying is the only way to do this | 11:04 |
| kanzure | i.e. "we oppose all non-institutionalized clinics" (wtf?) | 11:04 |
| kanzure | fenn: you still here? | 11:06 |
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| ybit2 | kanzure: using ikiwiki aye? :) | 12:10 |
| ybit2 | ping | 12:11 |
| ybit2 | ping | 12:11 |
| kanzure | yes it's ikiwiki | 12:12 |
| kanzure | (also piny) | 12:12 |
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| pmetzger | moo | 12:15 |
| kanzure | guh | 12:16 |
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| ybit | grr | 12:18 |
| ybit | @ quassel for not showing the messages sent :\ | 12:18 |
| ybit | or any messages atm | 12:18 |
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| kanzure | ybit: it's ikiwiki+piny | 12:19 |
| ybit | i saw, luckily the faithful adl connection + irssi is working still :) | 12:20 |
| ybit | hrm, no louck finding anything on piny so far... | 12:22 |
| pmetzger | Saw Jolly at HOPE this last weekend. That was an odd intersection of worlds. | 12:23 |
| jrayhawk | kanzure: are there any other issues you wanted sorted out? | 12:23 |
| pmetzger | I wonder if it would be cool to start doing DIY talks at hacker cons. They're a receptive audience. | 12:23 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: not at the moment :) thank you. | 12:23 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: there were a few at HOPE this year if you looked | 12:24 |
| pmetzger | not really. | 12:24 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/msg/b10c670ca3c20843 | 12:24 |
| pmetzger | I mean, I looked at those talks and, well... | 12:24 |
| pmetzger | none of them were really that relevant. | 12:25 |
| ybit | can you explain that slightly further pmetzger? | 12:25 |
| pmetzger | well, looking at the list that kanzure put up, most are totally irrelevant. | 12:25 |
| ybit | kanzure: linkage for piny please? | 12:26 |
| pmetzger | like the talk on how to get your Ham license | 12:26 |
| pmetzger | and why being a Ham is fun. | 12:26 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: see ybit's question :P | 12:26 |
| pmetzger | that has nothing to do with it.nor the guys doing things like taxonomy of cooked foods. | 12:26 |
| kanzure | there's a strong undercurrent of molecular gastronomy and food hacking in diybio, pmetzger | 12:26 |
| pmetzger | that wasn't what that talk was. | 12:27 |
| pmetzger | the sensor and pharma talks were mildly on topic, those were the only ones. | 12:27 |
| pmetzger | but anyway, what do I know. | 12:27 |
| pmetzger | there were people with things like 3D printers and such in the hardware hacking area. | 12:28 |
| pmetzger | it would have been cool if people were doing things like low cost PCR demos etc. | 12:28 |
| pmetzger | the same way people get hands on intros to soldering or what have you. | 12:29 |
| pmetzger | that's a lot of what I'm talking about. | 12:29 |
| kanzure | huh they give soldering lessons at these conferences? | 12:30 |
| fenn | i never realized diff was something with a tweakable parameter http://neil.fraser.name/software/diff_match_patch/svn/trunk/demos/demo_diff.html | 12:35 |
| pmetzger | Of course they give soldering lessons. | 12:37 |
| pmetzger | You haven't been to a hacker con? | 12:37 |
| pmetzger | People don't just give soldering lessons, they actively build stuff and use it while there. | 12:37 |
| Utopiah | (HOPE jsut finished btw) | 12:37 |
| pmetzger | The badges are always active circuits. This years had empty pads for interface chips to let you reprogram the thing to do a variety of forms of evil. | 12:38 |
| pmetzger | (The badges sent out your position information in the default config, but many people changed that. :) | 12:39 |
| kanzure | wifi localization? | 12:39 |
| pmetzger | no. | 12:39 |
| pmetzger | they spoke a different protocol. | 12:39 |
| pmetzger | there were sensor network stations all around that triangulated based on signal strength. | 12:40 |
| pmetzger | you couldn't run a wifi device for three days off of a coin cell. | 12:40 |
| pmetzger | Travis Goodspeed designed them this year. | 12:40 |
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| ybit | best way to learn how to solder properly: http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL+SPECS+(MIL-S)/download.php?spec=MIL_S_45743E.3367.PDF | 12:40 |
| pmetzger | MSP430 processor etc. | 12:40 |
| ybit | i.e. follow along and read the military spec | 12:41 |
| pmetzger | the best way to learn how to solder is to solder. :) | 12:41 |
| pmetzger | just like the best way to learn how to cook is to cook etc. | 12:41 |
| ybit | right :) but there are nice details from the spec. | 12:41 |
| Utopiah | RFID iirc | 12:41 |
| pmetzger | RFID doesn't mean just one thing. | 12:41 |
| pmetzger | There were radio chips from NORDIC with a 1mbps theoretical rate in the things, which is more than one usually means by RFID. | 12:42 |
| pmetzger | though people were mostly calling them RFID. | 12:42 |
| pmetzger | actually, I think the badge units could do 2mbps. | 12:42 |
| pmetzger | travis gave a great 1 hour talk saturday night at 10pm about them. | 12:44 |
| pmetzger | too bad the software side never worked quite right. | 12:44 |
| bdesk | the triangulation? | 12:44 |
| pmetzger | no, nothing about the stuff worked. like, the web site was down for long stretches etc. | 12:44 |
| pmetzger | I won't comment much beyond saying they put too much effort into things like letting you change your icon and not enough into doing the basic work far enough in advance. | 12:45 |
| pmetzger | Travis was working on the badge itself four or six months in advance. the software people should have been doing the same. | 12:46 |
| kanzure | http://extreme.ajatukseni.net/2010/07/19/hackerspaces-members-and-involvement-survey-study/ | 12:47 |
| nsh | hmmm | 12:48 |
| nsh | RFID + SDHC card on a badge is an interesting idea | 12:48 |
| nsh | throw in some public key infrastructure | 12:49 |
| nsh | i remember something from a few years back, some idea about "pollen" and people carry information to and fro | 12:49 |
| nsh | sneakernet++ | 12:50 |
| pmetzger | The badges were not really intended by Travis to be position locators. They're really general purpose devices. | 12:51 |
| pmetzger | For example, you can load in some software and use them as JTAG debuggers | 12:51 |
| pmetzger | though they did their job as radios quite well. | 12:51 |
| kanzure | bdesk: infoswell | 12:52 |
| pmetzger | travis also has software to use them to interfere with turning point clicker nets. | 12:53 |
| pmetzger | the project including all the software, gerber files for the devices, etc., is on source forge | 12:54 |
| pmetzger | anyway, these are the sorts of venues where people like getting their hands dirty. | 12:55 |
| pmetzger | a biohacking village where people were doing actual work with real equipment, teaching each other, and building more, would be a welcome addition at HOPE, shmoocon, etc. | 12:56 |
| kanzure | unfortunately a lot of the diybio people don't actually know hardware that well | 12:56 |
| kanzure | i think it would be great in general if they would be building hardware | 12:57 |
| pmetzger | if you're building a PCR you presumably know how to build a PCR, right? :) | 12:57 |
| kanzure | "at a conference" is a nice extra | 12:57 |
| kanzure | "building a PCR" whattt it's a chemical reaction | 12:57 |
| pmetzger | the device has to heat and cool the solution etc. | 12:57 |
| pmetzger | you know more about that than I do I presume. | 12:57 |
| jrayhawk | ybit: piny is a management layer on top of Ikiwiki | 12:59 |
| pmetzger | I was under the impression DIY thermocyclers etc. were something people were building and playing with. | 12:59 |
| jrayhawk | http://piny.be/piny-code/architecture/needed_user_facing_infrastructure/ is where features are at. | 12:59 |
| jrayhawk | You can feel free to either play with the piny.be service or take a look at the code by various means in the "Repo Info" link | 13:00 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: not really.. there's a few shady attempts at it but the majority are just marketing stunts | 13:01 |
| pmetzger | wasn't rob carlson involved in one of them? | 13:02 |
| kanzure | yes but he was just scamming them for $100k | 13:02 |
| kanzure | lava-amp | 13:02 |
| pmetzger | well, then a non-scam version would be cool. | 13:02 |
| kanzure | agreed! | 13:02 |
| pmetzger | presumably an arduino, a thermal sensor and a heating element along with a few other parts would do it. | 13:03 |
| pmetzger | not my particular interest, but it is an example of the sort of thing one can show off for people and teach them about easily. | 13:03 |
| kanzure | http://openpcr.org/ claims to be doing that | 13:04 |
| kanzure | er, i don't remember what chip they are using | 13:04 |
| kanzure | but again it's just a marketing stunt | 13:04 |
| pmetzger | a stunt to help market what? | 13:06 |
| kanzure | their product | 13:06 |
| kanzure | if you want to buy a thermocycler, just go buy one :/ | 13:07 |
| kanzure | i'd be happy to pay for a thermocycler kit that is actually open source, but that's not what's happening really | 13:08 |
| kanzure | so anyway | 13:08 |
| kanzure | ^although arguably their software is since it's up on github (though unlicensed (big deal, that's fixable)), it's just their schematics that are sketchy (ha ha get it) | 13:09 |
| cluckj | lol | 13:09 |
| kanzure | i've been noticing a really scary trend lately | 13:15 |
| kanzure | different people have been telling me that software development is very low cost / almost completely free | 13:15 |
| kanzure | i don't know where this idea is originating from | 13:15 |
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| jrayhawk | It's cheaper than it used to be, certainly. | 13:23 |
| kanzure | maybe | 13:23 |
| kanzure | yes | 13:23 |
| pmetzger | Software development is not zero cost, but the marginal cost of moving around open source software is low. | 13:28 |
| pmetzger | and the cost of improving open source software is lower than that of closed source in most cases. | 13:28 |
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| kanzure | development might seem to be "free" when contributors are subsidizing their development time | 13:29 |
| Utopiah | even then it's skilled labor... | 13:29 |
| pmetzger | of course. | 13:30 |
| pmetzger | software requires enormous skill to write well. | 13:30 |
| pmetzger | hardware takes enormous skill to build well. | 13:30 |
| Utopiah | IMHO there is a huge bias in computer and its software because it reached homes so people think it's "simple" but that's just not true | 13:31 |
| pmetzger | kanzure: so, assuming that thermocyclers are uninteresting, what technology would you like more people to master? what kind of technology would it please you to see people playing with? | 13:31 |
| kanzure | er are you asking me to make that assumption or are you saying that it is an assumption that you think i have told you that i have | 13:31 |
| kanzure | because i think that building thermocyclers is definitely a good activity | 13:31 |
| pmetzger | okay, cool. so you think it would be cool to see people at hacker cons playing with such things? it seems cool to me... | 13:32 |
| bdesk | we need kevin costner to build the thermocyclers | 13:32 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: sure.. but honestly i think it would be better if that started happening regardless of conferences | 13:33 |
| pmetzger | not my point. I was discussing possible interesting things to bring to hacker cons. | 13:33 |
| pmetzger | because they're fertile ground for such activities. | 13:34 |
| kanzure | oh | 13:35 |
| kanzure | possibly interesting things to bring to hacker cons | 13:35 |
| kanzure | microfluidic chips are pretty fun to look at and watch | 13:35 |
| kanzure | culture streaking | 13:37 |
| pmetzger | electrophoresis? | 13:38 |
| pmetzger | (that strikes me as a thing people could learn very easily.) | 13:39 |
| kanzure | might take too long? | 13:39 |
| klafka | it takes like less than 20 minutes | 13:39 |
| kanzure | you mean making a gel? | 13:39 |
| kanzure | or running it | 13:39 |
| klafka | well the whole process is like maybe 1-2 hrs | 13:39 |
| kanzure | i think you can increase the speed at which it occurs | 13:39 |
| kanzure | by increasing the voltage? | 13:39 |
| cluckj | yes | 13:39 |
| cluckj | depends on what you're using and what kind of results you want | 13:40 |
| klafka | yeah | 13:42 |
| kanzure | does anyone want http://diyhpl.us/wiki/ accounts | 13:42 |
| jrayhawk | 'addaccess' should work with existing gnusha shell users; they just won't be locked down. | 13:53 |
| jrayhawk | jus t fyi | 13:54 |
| kanzure | i have a ticket to go see kurzweil's movie opening on the 21st | 13:57 |
| kanzure | either it's opening or it's just a viewing, dunno | 13:57 |
| fenn | this seems pretty straightforward, and when combined with light field photography could yield something resembling a 3D television http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_photography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenoptic_camera | 13:57 |
| kanzure | anyway, i'm not going to be in the bay area on the 21st so who wants my ticket | 13:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: you? | 13:57 |
| kanzure | i hear the movie isn't that great but who knows | 13:57 |
| fenn | uh, uh.. what time is it? | 13:58 |
| fenn | and where? | 13:58 |
| kanzure | 6:30pm | 13:58 |
| kanzure | where.. uh.. | 13:58 |
| bdesk | wat is the movie | 13:58 |
| fenn | and what are the transdimensional infinite improbability parameters? | 13:58 |
| bdesk | http://www.transcendentman.com/ ? | 13:58 |
| kanzure | bdesk: yep | 13:58 |
| kanzure | Bluelight Cinemas 21275 Cinemas, Stevens Creek Blvd., Cupertino, CA 95014 | 13:59 |
| kanzure | uh where is cupertino anyway | 13:59 |
| fenn | hm maybe bkero is interested | 13:59 |
| kanzure | oh it's near menlo park | 14:00 |
| fenn | i've been invited to a birthday potluck.. decisions decisions | 14:00 |
| kanzure | "The singularity is near: a true story about the future" | 14:00 |
| kanzure | so yeah, transcendent man | 14:00 |
| kanzure | in which you get to spend a few hours watching ray cry about his daddy problems | 14:00 |
| kanzure | KIDDING | 14:01 |
| kanzure | sorta | 14:01 |
| fenn | gah, ray has extreme pixellation problems | 14:01 |
| bkero | 'eh? | 14:02 |
| bkero | fenn: hm?\ | 14:02 |
| fenn | bkero: want to see ray kurzweil's movie on the 21st in cupertino at 6:30pm? | 14:02 |
| bkero | Wednesday at 6:30? | 14:03 |
| bkero | Maybe, if I can get a ride out to Cupertino. | 14:03 |
| fenn | kanzure there is only one ticket? | 14:03 |
| kanzure | i only reserved one :/ | 14:03 |
| kanzure | but who knows.. maybe there's extra seats available | 14:03 |
| kanzure | i could ping back sarah reed (kurzweilai.com person who i was emailing for this) and tell her i'm just a fat ass and need two chairs | 14:04 |
| bkero | I'll go if I can get out there somehow and get a seat | 14:04 |
| kanzure | "transhumanism: increasing fat deposits worldwide" hah! | 14:04 |
| fenn | it's true | 14:05 |
| kanzure | it's an improvement in how much you can eat, right? | 14:05 |
| fenn | see tesla's seminal "on the problem of increasing human energy" | 14:05 |
| kanzure | show up and tell them you're bryan bishop, and see if they just let you in after looking over their clipboard | 14:07 |
| kanzure | if not, tell them you're ray's long lost son | 14:07 |
| kanzure | (.. from the future?) | 14:07 |
| cluckj | carbon sequestering on your ass? | 14:08 |
| fenn | cluckj: tesla states that by the equation KE = mv^2/2 we can increase human momentum by increasing the total mass of the population | 14:09 |
| cluckj | hehehe | 14:09 |
| fenn | seems like they should make these gigantic microlens arrays using some kind of etching method, instead of diamond machining | 14:13 |
| fenn | "Integral imaging has not yet achieved significant commercial success, in part because diamond tooling molds for large plastic arrays is difficult, and in most cases prohibitively expensive. Inexpensive lens array sheets have been produced using extrusion embossing (in the same manner as lenticular sheets are made), using anilox patterned rolls, but the resulting lens array pattern, while adequate for moiré effects, is not suitable for integral | 14:14 |
| kanzure | "lens array sheets" what would that look like | 14:14 |
| kanzure | cutoff at "is not suitable for integral" | 14:14 |
| fenn | not suitable for integral imagery due to its lack of predictable geometry. | 14:15 |
| fenn | it looks sort of like a fly's eye | 14:15 |
| kanzure | except in a sheet? is it like a sheet of acrylic or what | 14:15 |
| kanzure | er, i mean, a compliant sheet | 14:15 |
| fenn | yeah, PETE usually | 14:15 |
| fenn | like a fresnel lens | 14:15 |
| fenn | you'd need a crapload of pixels for a decent resolution 4D light field though | 14:16 |
| fenn | like a solid wall of DLP chips | 14:17 |
| fenn | maybe people wouldn't notice if it's just a cellphone sized device | 14:18 |
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| fenn | i'm getting the feeling that i've been lied to about how a fly eye really works | 14:38 |
| kanzure | pmetzger: another good project to demo at cons would be a spectrophotograph | 14:41 |
| fenn | "In the parabolic superposition compound eye type, seen in arthropods such as mayflies, the parabolic surfaces of the inside of each facet focus light from a reflector to a sensor array" | 14:42 |
| kanzure | what's the conventional explanation of compound eyes? | 14:42 |
| fenn | all this cool stuff just for something that lives one day | 14:42 |
| kanzure | haha DNA synthesis via fly eyes :D | 14:42 |
| kanzure | genehacker! where's genehacker when you need him | 14:42 |
| fenn | the elementary school explanation is that each lens focuses on a single point, i.e. each lens is one pixel | 14:42 |
| kanzure | he'd eat that up :/ | 14:42 |
| kanzure | wow what? | 14:43 |
| kanzure | i haven't ever heard them say that | 14:43 |
| kanzure | haven't you seen the "seeing a million things at once" diagrams and visual explanations or whatever? | 14:43 |
| fenn | yeah | 14:43 |
| fenn | they have a thousand lenses or so | 14:43 |
| fenn | damn i need to read a whole book about this | 14:45 |
| fenn | dammit | 14:47 |
| fenn | jurvetson appears yet again | 14:47 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hawk_eye.jpg from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_eye#Visual_acuity | 14:48 |
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| kanzure | biofab webcast https://admin.na5.acrobat.com/_a950781581/biofab2010/?launcher=false | 15:07 |
| kanzure | ew acrobat | 15:07 |
| bkero | :q/win 27 | 15:09 |
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| kanzure | hi BoyTito | 18:31 |
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| BoyTito | hey kanzure | 18:49 |
| BoyTito | sorry about that, I forgot I got onto IRC TT___TT | 18:50 |
| kanzure | are you tito or john? | 18:50 |
| BoyTito | I'm actually eric | 18:51 |
| kanzure | okie dokie | 18:51 |
| kanzure | what's up? :) | 18:52 |
| BoyTito | well, I was watchin' some talks from defcon last year, and got to one that brought up biohacking a little | 18:52 |
| BoyTito | and the speaker referenced your site, so I figured I'd check it out | 18:53 |
| BoyTito | then I saw there was an irc channel that people probably frequented | 18:53 |
| kanzure | richard thieme? | 18:53 |
| BoyTito | and was pretty much wondering how I get my foot in the door | 18:53 |
| BoyTito | yessir | 18:53 |
| kanzure | cool, so what are you interested in doing | 18:54 |
| kanzure | i mean, in general | 18:54 |
| BoyTito | yea yea | 18:54 |
| BoyTito | a couple of things | 18:54 |
| BoyTito | I would like to figure out how these building blocks work, but I'm more of a hands on kind of guy | 18:55 |
| kanzure | btw can you link me to the richard thieme talk? i never saw it.. but remember talking with him before the conference | 18:55 |
| BoyTito | but I don't wanna go out buying stuff left and right to figure out that I can't actually do anything with it | 18:55 |
| BoyTito | yeah | 18:55 |
| kanzure | the building blocks (biobricks) don't actually work | 18:55 |
| kanzure | but that's not where the fun is anyway | 18:55 |
| BoyTito | okay | 18:56 |
| BoyTito | http://defcon.org/html/links/dc-archives/dc-17-archive.html | 18:56 |
| BoyTito | the one titled: Hacking, Biohacking, and the Future of Humanity | 18:56 |
| kanzure | thank you | 18:56 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:56 |
| BoyTito | np | 18:56 |
| BoyTito | so I've been programming for a while | 18:57 |
| kanzure | anything in particular? | 18:57 |
| BoyTito | just fooling around | 18:57 |
| BoyTito | c++ in school | 18:58 |
| BoyTito | then i burnt myself out | 18:58 |
| BoyTito | and a couple of months ago I started picking up haskell | 18:58 |
| BoyTito | and between those two I've dabbled in python and such | 18:58 |
| BoyTito | never got into any projects though | 18:58 |
| kanzure | so there's a few things going on in the community that you might be interested in | 18:58 |
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| BoyTito | yea? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | are you a linux user? | 18:59 |
| BoyTito | yessir | 18:59 |
| BoyTito | not very safe, but learnin' and all that | 18:59 |
| BoyTito | :p | 18:59 |
| kanzure | ? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | er | 18:59 |
| kanzure | my thumb sometimes taps the mousepad and that presses enter :( | 18:59 |
| kanzure | do you use dpkg/apt-get or anything like that? | 18:59 |
| BoyTito | yea | 19:00 |
| kanzure | right, so, i want that for biotech equipment | 19:00 |
| kanzure | sudo make me a sandwich et al... uh, except for labware | 19:00 |
| BoyTito | haha | 19:00 |
| JayDugger | sudo make me a phmeter | 19:00 |
| BoyTito | that'd be cool | 19:00 |
| kanzure | so there's been some progress on it.. doing a hardware package format, for instance | 19:00 |
| BoyTito | whats this equipment generally made out of? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | build instructions, blah blah blah | 19:00 |
| kanzure | plastic, metal, electronics, lots of sweat-and-blood | 19:01 |
| kanzure | elbow grease | 19:01 |
| BoyTito | okay, so you couldn't use something like the reprap then | 19:01 |
| kanzure | sure you could | 19:01 |
| BoyTito | til it gets to final stage | 19:01 |
| kanzure | no, reprap has been used to make some pieces of lab equipment | 19:01 |
| BoyTito | yeah? | 19:01 |
| kanzure | like cathal's dremelfuge | 19:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1483 | 19:01 |
| kanzure | huh cathal did it in openscad? i don't remember that | 19:02 |
| BoyTito | thats cool | 19:02 |
| kanzure | so anyway | 19:03 |
| kanzure | a big problem in hardware is that you spend a lot of effort and eventually something might work | 19:03 |
| kanzure | but then nobody does documentation | 19:03 |
| kanzure | or if they do schematics or something, they suck | 19:03 |
| BoyTito | I can see that | 19:03 |
| kanzure | so there's this software-hardware intersection that needs some tender loving | 19:03 |
| kanzure | :P | 19:03 |
| kanzure | dunno if you've ever tried to build a makerbot or cupcakecnc (a form of a reprap) | 19:03 |
| BoyTito | naw | 19:04 |
| BoyTito | I've looked into it | 19:04 |
| BoyTito | but I'ma kinda strapped for cash and I would kinda like it to print out circuit boards and such for me | 19:04 |
| kanzure | http://adl.serveftp.org/dokuwiki/skdb is kinda out of date but describes some previous work on this front | 19:05 |
| BoyTito | so I was hoping there'd be some leaps and bounds in the versions, like full self-replication by a couple months ago >.< | 19:05 |
| kanzure | there are also some talks we gave that are up on youtube | 19:05 |
| BoyTito | and thats just the kinda apt-get version for hardware | 19:06 |
| kanzure | downloading hardware over the web part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n39RK4inzg | 19:06 |
| kanzure | part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S9z6H_EFqQ | 19:06 |
| kanzure | part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edl6uFn3_g4 | 19:06 |
| BoyTito | sweet, I'm on it ^_^ | 19:07 |
| kanzure | and then recently the talk on diy transhuman tech and biohacking for hplus summit 2010 (some say the audio sucks?) | 19:07 |
| kanzure | part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4ex52LYDe8 | 19:07 |
| kanzure | part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzUVd0skbc8 | 19:07 |
| BoyTito | word | 19:07 |
| kanzure | so anyway.. recently i've been spending my time doing some python for a somewhat usable STEP library | 19:08 |
| kanzure | primarily so that there's a plain text way of specify solid geometry models for these hardware packages to send around | 19:09 |
| kanzure | but i haven't released it yet because it's embarrassing / not working yet :P | 19:09 |
| BoyTito | lol | 19:09 |
| BoyTito | you mean like, requesting by name? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | huh? | 19:10 |
| BoyTito | or a model is described in plain text | 19:10 |
| kanzure | right now there's a limited number of ways to generate CAD files | 19:10 |
| kanzure | there's only point-and-click open source tools for it :/ | 19:10 |
| kanzure | and they are not the greatest in the world | 19:10 |
| kanzure | the one i keep pointing people to (because it's by far the most usable (and that's not saying much)) is http://heekscad.org/ | 19:10 |
| kanzure | there's lots of proprietary tools though that you can pirate, of course | 19:11 |
| BoyTito | got it, so you're working on something like the 3d modelers where you'd have to type out the objects then it would render it from code? but for hardware packages | 19:12 |
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| kanzure | uh, uh | 19:14 |
| kanzure | a better way to explain this is "infrastructure for sharing hardware designs between biohackers" | 19:15 |
| kanzure | and CAD models are just a missing piece of that puzzle | 19:15 |
| BoyTito | okay | 19:15 |
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| kanzure | btw this might be interesting if you want a self-replicator: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/e4c375acce772250 | 19:18 |
| BoyTito | good looks, thats some cool stuff | 19:25 |
| BoyTito | but yeah, programming a while ago I got the idea that everything that lifes based on is just objects and relationships | 19:31 |
| BoyTito | which is pretty much what code is, it would just be different syntax | 19:31 |
| BoyTito | and if I could work with the building blocks of organisms like I could code | 19:33 |
| BoyTito | whether its dna, or straight molecules or what not, I'm really not learned in that matter | 19:33 |
| BoyTito | I figured it'd be quite interesting to be able to play around and see direct physical results | 19:34 |
| BoyTito | cause thats why I had burned out of programming, the results of my projects didn't merit all the work I put in | 19:35 |
| BoyTito | I never actually made something that affected anything outside of my computer | 19:35 |
| BoyTito | I'm off though, it was good to talk w/ you man | 19:37 |
| BoyTito | cya round | 19:37 |
| kanzure | d | 19:38 |
| kanzure | feel free to idle aroun | 19:38 |
| kanzure | feel free to idle around | 19:38 |
| JayDugger | kanzure: Once you've a civilization seed ready to go, you could follow Oglethorpe University's example and bury it in a time capsule. | 19:47 |
| JayDugger | http://www.oglethorpe.edu/about_us/crypt_of_civilization/history_of_the_crypt.asp | 19:47 |
| JayDugger | No doubt you could get the Long Now types to fund a Deep Time capsule, eh? | 19:47 |
| JayDugger | (Found via, of all things, the playtest blog for an as-yet-unpublished RPG.) | 19:48 |
| JayDugger | Good night, evryone. | 19:48 |
| JayDugger | everyone, even. | 19:49 |
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| fenn | more proof that the universe is imploding: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddwick/4112726327/in/photostream/ | 21:56 |
| fenn | check out the name on the mailing address | 21:57 |
| fenn | and the weird thing is i knew what it would say before zooming in | 21:58 |
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| kanzure | i wonder if this report was specifically made to get on wikileaks itself http://wikileaks.org/wiki/U.S._Intelligence_planned_to_destroy_WikiLeaks,_18_Mar_2008 | 22:28 |
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| fenn | but honey, they go so well together: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddwick/4100934305/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddwick/4101692880/in/photostream/ | 22:42 |
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| kanzure | hmph why don't /i/ have a "mobile data center" disguised as a commando tank? :( | 22:46 |
| kanzure | what's the pop out tent for | 22:47 |
| Alystair | OHOHO | 22:49 |
| Alystair | those are your shots fenn? | 22:49 |
| kanzure | fenn: where is todd's weaponary poser shot thing | 22:49 |
| kanzure | was this it? http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddwick/3016657700/ | 22:53 |
| fenn | http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddwick/3431322716/ | 22:54 |
| kanzure | "Hi Mom. I'm giving up my sinful Western Ways and am becoming a mujadeen." | 22:54 |
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| fenn | so i've spent like the last 10 minutes trying to figure this out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oddwick/4069854193/ | 22:56 |
| -!- nsh [~nsh@87.112.74.74.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #hplusroadmap | 22:57 | |
| fenn | oh boy, we are testing spud guns inside | 23:01 |
| * fenn hides under his blanket | 23:01 | |
| fenn | the tarp will protect me | 23:01 |
| Alystair | :( | 23:03 |
| fenn | i'm still here, don't worry | 23:12 |
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| -!- streety [~Jonathan@91.143.127.68] has joined #hplusroadmap | 23:30 | |
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| -!- augur [~augur@c-69-143-196-42.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 23:36 | |
| fenn | wow, nothing like statistics to back up your stereotypes http://mytype.com/blog/?p=109 | 23:43 |
| fenn | "to ipad or not to ipad" | 23:43 |
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| Alystair | to kindle or not to kindle | 23:54 |
| fenn | ipython tip of the month: foo? shows a nice help summary of foo | 23:58 |
| --- Log closed Tue Jul 20 00:00:12 2010 | ||
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