2010-09-08.log

--- Log opened Wed Sep 08 00:00:17 2010
joshcryerThe memristor nanoimprint device is the size of a fridge.00:10
joshcryerMaking me think "OK I CAN BUILD THAT."00:10
joshcryerThey're making these things in labs. :O00:10
joshcryerI mean, school labs.00:11
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joshcryerhttp://www.wiley-vch.de/berlin/journals/op/10-02/OP0210_S42-45.pdf01:15
joshcryerNeed to find docs on this nanoprint technology.01:16
joshcryerFrom what I gathered memristors are really simple so the technology is ideal.01:16
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phrykOn Sept. 23rd I'll get my implant :)03:04
jmilkanzure jrayhawk i cc'ed you on some diyhpl.us git reprap stuff, lemme know what you think either by email or via irc. thx, g'nite03:35
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jrayhawkIf people just want to be able to grab whole directories, we can maintain a checkout in a place where an rsyncd and/or httpd can serve it up.04:25
jrayhawkThough git submodules are still a much less awful plan.04:26
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kanzuredoes anyone want the domain 'fabuntu.com'?05:19
jrayhawkis that ubuntu with a particularly pastel purple theme05:49
jrayhawkoh wait, that's normal ubuntu05:49
kanzurei was thinking fab+ubuntu06:08
kanzureas in fabrication06:09
kanzurebut fabulous/gay might be another way to look at it.. :/06:09
kanzurematt couldn't figure out how to make git clone http://git.gitorious.org/qhull/qhull.git work06:21
kanzureso he asked me to zip it up and email it06:21
kanzurehttp://www.qhull.org/06:21
kanzurehe's benchmarking his convex hull finder http://miconvexhull.codeplex.com/06:21
jrayhawkthe sad part about that is06:24
jrayhawkhttp://gitorious.org/qhull/qhull/archive-tarball/master06:24
kanzureldfkjkadlafjkad06:28
kanzurehg clone https://hg01.codeplex.com/miconvexhull06:38
JayDugger"ldfkjkadlafjkad" you say? Evocative, but vague.06:38
JayDuggerWhat sort of OpenGL aid do you seek?06:40
kanzureJayDugger: i can't get my projection/camera/viewing/modeling/viewport matrices right06:41
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kanzurehi glytch 07:53
kanzurealso, bbl07:54
glytchhello again07:54
glytch:) ok07:54
glytch*installs lots of python libs by hand for skdb*   didn't realize how much i had come to like ruby's gem system until now08:02
kanzureJayDugger: i can't get my projection/camera/viewing/modeling/viewport matrices right08:02
kanzurecrap08:02
kanzureeasy_install08:02
kanzureglytch: there's really no reason for you to be doing this for skdb right now08:02
kanzurethere's not much value you can extract from the library08:03
kanzurealso apparently i'm not gone yet08:03
kanzureif you insist on installing it, i'll of course help with whatever issues you run into.. but still :)08:03
glytchkanzure, why is there not much value? the code just not there yet or there isn't much hardware in the db?08:03
kanzureboth :)08:04
glytcheither way, there's really only one way to fix it08:04
kanzureone of the major dependencies is opencascade, but there's no real reason we need a dependency on opencascade08:04
glytchheh, i'm only on the second python dependency and i already wanna rewrite it in ruby so i can use the gems system 08:07
glytchdoes python have something like that i don't know about?08:08
kanzureeasy_install08:08
kanzureor you can continue to hit yourself over the head :)08:09
glytchhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/pip  :)08:10
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glytchoh, when you said easy_install earlier i didn't know what you mean, looking it up08:10
kanzurebtw git clone git://diyhpl.us/skdb.git for a more recent version08:10
kanzurei haven't pushed to github in a while08:10
glytch... should definitely pick one or the other there, and add the other as a commit hook if you wanna have both08:11
kanzureadl.serveftp.org/skdb.git was where it was happening for a while08:12
kanzurebut obviously that server is dead08:12
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jmilLOVE this one:11:16
jmilhttp://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/theo_jansen_creates_new_creatures.html11:16
dustbinah ya theo jansen's stuff is pretty cool11:20
kanzurejmil: the box2d library has an example of soem theo jansen mechanisms in a physics simulator11:25
kanzureactually, fantasticcontraption.com is based on box2d (except some weird flash version)11:26
kanzureheyy kickstarter featured biocurious in their newsletter11:27
kanzure$17k pledged out of $30k target.. eh11:28
kanzureanywho, i'm back from the meeting.. looks like i'm gearing up to be a defense contractor :)11:37
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kanzure"you agree to agree to sign .." oh man12:10
bkeroYou sign bad things :(12:12
kanzurenobody said i've signed it12:23
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kanzure`the strategy here is like for perl, "there's more than one way to do it". almost every desired workflow should be possible...`14:03
kanzurewho the hell let these people be in charge of reprap.org?14:03
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kanzureholy crap jordan wrote that comment14:08
jmilwhat comment?14:23
jmilkanzure: ??14:23
jmilanyone.... anyone.... bueller?14:24
kanzure13:59 < kanzure> `the strategy here is like for perl, "there's more than one way to do it". almost every desired workflow should be possible...`14:24
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jmilyou disagree?14:25
kanzureso dramatically that i actually placed a hit on you14:26
jmillol14:26
jmili already killed the ninja, you gotta send more than that14:26
jmilwe start with gentle appeasement to lock everyone into git14:27
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jmilthen everyone will be on master branch14:27
jmilthen we'll be all good14:27
jmildozens of copies of the entire reprap repo all over the world14:27
kanzureexplain to me why using git the right way is a bad idea14:27
kanzurelike with people keeping their own repositories14:27
jmilthere are reasons you'd want your own branch vs. reasons you'd want in your user folder14:28
kanzureand not a giant shared users/ dir14:28
jmild) all of the above14:28
jmilmaybe i hate adrian's mendel, and i want one i call Bendel at the root level. i can do that if i put it in my own git branch14:28
jmilso there's no reason to prohibit git branches14:28
jmilbut as i said ideally everyone in their own users/ dir14:29
jmilthen changes get promoted to main root folder14:29
jmilby Adrian14:29
jmilthen no one can get pissed off --- although i realize these are famous last words LOL14:29
jmilwhen you force everyone to do things only one way, it slows adoption14:30
kanzureyou don't want 100% adoption of a pile of shit14:30
jmilreally though, the way i am proposing has the lowest overhead and headaches. eventually people will get used to committing to master14:30
jmilkanzure: what?14:30
jmilyou hate git branches?14:30
kanzureusers/ isn't a branch14:30
jmilmaybe you should call me14:30
kanzurehuh?14:31
jmili know it's not a branch14:31
kanzurei'd be happy to call btw14:31
jmilthat's what i said, i *prefer* everyone to commit to master branch in their users folder14:31
kanzurehave been meaning to in general14:31
jmili don't understand your objections then14:31
jmiltrust me though, no ones going to want to be branching and merging all the time, especially users coming from SVN14:32
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jmilthere's almost zero reason to ever commit to anything besides master branch14:32
jmilthat's what i've been (gently) pointing the way towards, funneling people towards14:33
kanzureactually, this is a good reason to force me to do another important phone call14:33
kanzureso gimme 20min or something14:33
jmilok. bring on the ninjas14:33
jmilreprap peeps have huge egos. that's always been their fatal flaw. they will lambast every "recommended" way to do things. If we let them do things any way they want, they are still busy people, they will eventually figure out that our recommended way is recommended because it's actually the best way14:34
jmiland the most efficient, most seamless, and most flexible14:35
jmilbut they really have to come to that conclusion on their own14:35
jmiltrust me14:35
kanzureand why do you want to put up with that?14:35
kanzurejust fork it14:35
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jmili hate forks14:35
jmilknives and spoons are not so great either14:35
jmili hate having to browse each individual users fork and do git merges and do conflict resolution because no one else has the time or inclination to do them14:36
jmilso i always end up doing it14:36
jmilit's all there, in Linus' philosophy for git14:36
jmil"I organize it such that it is the least amount of work for me"14:36
jmilthat ends up being the least amount of work for everyone, actually14:37
jmilthe *only* reason to fork is if you think there is any chance of conflicting commits14:37
jmilfor reprap, there really won't be14:38
jmilthere never have been because everyone is used to SVN anyway14:38
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kanzurejmil: :P14:49
kanzurejmil: technically we don't have to talk *now*14:50
jmilsorry dude crazy times here14:50
jmilnow is good14:50
jmiljust gimme 10 min14:51
jmilit will help me14:51
jmil:-)14:51
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kanzurehi epitron_ 15:27
epitron_sup15:27
ybitkanzure: mind if i crawl diyhpl.us?15:31
ybitmeh, i'll just use something like digg or slashdot15:36
kanzurediyhpl.us just has /irc/ and /screenshots/15:38
kanzureand /wiki but don't crawl that.. just clone it15:39
ybitalright, i won't do anything with it15:43
kanzuregit clone git://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki.git15:44
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kanzurehi ferrouswheel 15:53
kanzureben and natasha are unavailable, but i need to talk with someone on the board, any ideas?15:53
kanzurewho has been there for more than a week15:54
kanzureoh i guess todd is around15:54
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kanzurehttp://www.sycode.com/publications/books/opencad/ "a step-by-step guide to writing a cad application" hah16:14
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kanzurehttp://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/showciting;jsessionid=92A86443B7FFB578DDC4FCA5BC4E565E?cid=108495217:44
kanzureHML, a novel hardware description language and its translation to VHDL17:45
kanzureand: Transformational System Design Based on a Formal Computational Model and Skeletons http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.22.761017:45
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ybithow'd the board elections go?18:44
dustbinkanzure: got anything for me to work on yet?18:58
kanzure"let's not create a solution that requires all git users to become comfortable at a Unix shell prompt"19:11
kanzuregod this keeps getting worse19:11
epitronhahaha19:11
epitronwhy don't you just let people who are scared of commandlines download tarballs from gitweb19:11
epitronadmittedly though, git is pretty unfriendly19:12
epitronit took me a while to get proficient at it19:12
kanzureyour mom is unfriendly too but you don't hear me talking about replacing her do you?19:12
kanzure:P kidding19:12
epitronwhoa19:12
epitronsomeone's cranky19:12
kanzurei just don't know why we have to accept that reprap.org devs have to be a nubch of tards19:12
kanzure*bunch19:12
kanzurenubch is from an old C library i guess19:13
epitronthey're not tards19:13
epitrongit is painful19:13
QuantumGshe's proficient too :P19:13
kanzureum, look, "basic proficiency at the shell" isn't some godlike superpower19:13
epitroni'm not talking about shell proficiency19:13
kanzurewell, they were19:13
kanzure"users to become comfortable at a Unix shell prompt"19:13
epitrongood for them :)19:13
kanzurethen what are you talking about and why?19:13
epitroni'm just saying that git is unfriendly19:14
epitronit's probably not the best choice for people who aren't software developers19:14
QuantumGgit isn't the best choice for people are software developers19:14
epitronthere are other distributed version control systems19:14
kanzuremissing a word G :)19:14
epitronmercurial is apparently less painful19:14
epitronnever tried it myself19:14
kanzureepitron: did you read the earlier statements i was lamenting? from the same reprap.org devs19:15
epitronthere's also fossil, which gets rid of the distributed part19:15
QuantumGbzr is actually usable19:15
epitronkanzure: no, sorry...19:15
QuantumGit's not "blazing fast" like git19:15
epitronnever tried bzr19:15
QuantumGbut it has an understandable cmd line interface19:15
kanzureepitron: yeah this is getting pretty epic ;)19:15
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QuantumGof course, if you use it you're stupid and ugly like cvs users19:15
epitronkanzure: focus on the signal, block out the noise :)19:15
epitronCVS users never get laid19:16
QuantumGhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok819:16
epitronit's a FACT19:16
epitronhahah19:16
epitroni love this talk19:16
epitronhe's so cranky19:16
QuantumGonly cause he disses people to their face19:16
epitron"a version control system that's expressly designed to make you feel less intelligent than you thought you were"19:17
epitronthat's a great slogan19:17
kanzure`the strategy here is like for perl, "there's more than one way to do it". almost every desired workflow should be possible...`19:18
epitronfuck that :)19:18
kanzuresee what i mean19:18
kanzureit gets worse :(19:18
kanzurethey have individual developers19:18
epitronthat's noise19:18
kanzurecommitting shit to users/username/ in the main branch19:18
kanzurefor "their work"19:18
epitronyep19:19
epitronthat's a common git usage pattern amongst noobs19:19
kanzureit's common amongst your *face*19:19
kanzure*grumble grumble*19:19
QuantumGI wish I could get svn users to use /branches/username/branchname19:19
* kanzure goes off to watch "despicable me"19:19
kanzuredustbin: i'll get you some stuff soon, i triple promise19:19
QuantumGand /branches/qa/branchname instead of /branches/qa_branchname19:20
QuantumGone of the nice things at my company is that we have people who do the merges for us.19:21
QuantumGwe have automated tools that test branches19:21
QuantumGand do comparisons19:22
kanzureaw crap i fell into a time warp.. it's not time yet19:22
epitronahahh19:22
kanzureanywho19:22
epitronthat's funny19:22
epitronMERGEMASTER19:22
epitronis that his only job?19:22
kanzuremergemaster vs. bugmaster: YOU DECIDE 201019:23
QuantumGnah.. and his job is more like "build engineer" in other companies.. he puts together the release candidates19:23
QuantumGwe push stuff from our private branches to "work" branches that he cherrypicks to make new QA branches.. that get tested and tested to become production branches.19:24
kanzuresvn?19:24
QuantumGyep19:24
QuantumGsubversion19:24
kanzurejust checking.19:25
kanzuredustbin: i need a name for this repository / project19:25
kanzure"pystep" is awful19:25
kanzureepitron: you like epic names, right? get me something good19:25
QuantumGdah, "slither"19:26
QuantumGthat's how pythons step19:26
kanzurefor a parametric python-based CAD kernel that doesn't suck as much as opencascade19:26
kanzureslither :)19:26
kanzurei should be asking #python i guess19:26
dustbinhmm should be something relating to monty python19:26
kanzuredepartment of slithering walks? >>19:27
dustbinpython was named for monty python and they encourage things along those lines so maybe something like that?19:28
epitronkanzure: i'm not very good at coming up with names19:28
kanzure< dpn`> loeoetl =  10303-2119:28
epitroni always name things <something>-o-matic19:28
epitronor <something>tron900019:28
kanzurecadomatic900019:28
epitronMr. <Something>19:28
kanzurewell that was useless. they suggested "stroganoff"19:33
kanzurealso they pointed out pystep (the name i've been using so far) is taken: http://pystep.sourceforge.net/19:33
kanzuresupercad9000?19:34
epitronremove the py19:34
epitronnobody cares what that shit is written in unless they wanna modify it19:34
epitron  30 Moby Thesaurus words for "cad":19:34
epitron     Babbitt, Philistine, arriviste, boor, bounder, bourgeois, churl,19:34
epitron     clown, epicier, groundling, guttersnipe, hooligan, ill-bred fellow,19:34
epitron     looby, lout, low fellow, mucker, nouveau riche, parvenu, peasant,19:34
epitron     ribald, rotter, rough, roughneck, rowdy, ruffian, upstart,19:34
epitron     vulgarian, vulgarist, yokel19:34
kanzureO_o19:35
epitronchurl!19:35
epitronruffian!19:35
epitronribald!19:35
epitronlout!19:35
kanzureAutoCAD has an awful name19:35
epitronlout sounds great19:35
epitronit rolls off the tongue19:35
kanzureCATIA too19:35
epitronunconstructive brainstorming input19:35
epitronfocus19:35
kanzure(09:32:19 PM) Russell Hanson: Run Chrome with " --enable-webgl" to enable WebGL (Javascript api to OpenGL ES in the browser) http://slides.html5rocks.com/#slide2519:36
kanzureoh, focus, right, uh19:36
epitronyou can also run chrome with gpu acceleration19:36
kanzureorly19:36
epitroni think LOUT sounds good though19:36
epitronCAD things tend to be big and beefy and burly19:36
epitronit works :)19:36
kanzuretinycad19:36
epitronthat's not bad actually19:37
kanzurehttp://tinycad.sf.net/ arrrgh19:37
kanzure"TinyCAD is an open source schematic capture program for MS Windows. Use TinyCAD to produce professional circuit diagrams and export net list information to PCB applications. "19:37
kanzurehow is this tiny19:37
kanzureReallyTinyCAD19:37
epitron  62 Moby Thesaurus words for "tiny":19:38
epitron     Lilliputian, bantam, bitsy, bitty, cursory, dainty, delicate,19:38
epitron     depthless, diminutive, dwarf, dwarfish, elfin, few, fine, footling,19:38
epitron     inconsequential, inconsiderable, infinitesimal, insignificant,19:38
epitron     itsy-bitsy, itty-bitty, lilliputian, little, low, meager, micro,19:38
epitron     microscopic, midget, mini, miniature, minikin, minim, minuscular,19:38
epitron     minuscule, minute, negligible, no great shakes, paltry, peewee,19:38
epitron     petite, petty, picayune, picayunish, pint-sized, pocket,19:38
epitron     pocket-size, pocket-sized, puny, pygmy, shallow, short, skin-deep,19:38
epitron     slight, small, superficial, teensy-weensy, teeny, teeny-weeny,19:38
epitron     trifling, trivial, wee, weeny19:38
kanzurepettycad19:38
epitronhahah19:38
kanzurei should name it that just in spite19:39
epitronmeh19:39
kanzure"no great shakes" what?19:39
kanzurepygmycad?19:39
epitronhaha19:40
epitronthat's hard to type19:40
epitronyou're going to regret that name19:40
epitron  executrix19:40
epitron       n : a woman executor19:40
epitronthat's a fun word19:40
kanzuredude i named skdb SKDB19:40
epitronit's shorter19:41
epitronyou should use words from the world of building19:41
epitronand engineering19:41
kanzuremakercad :(19:41
epitronmaker, eww19:42
epitron(sorry, negative things bad for brainstorming)19:42
epitronshaper?19:42
QuantumGweenycad ftw19:42
kanzuregnucad?19:42
epitronhahaha19:43
epitrongnurbs19:43
kanzurehttp://gnu.mirrors.typhon.net/directory/gnuCAD.html19:43
kanzure"GnuCAD - Unfinished project to write a free CAD system"19:43
kanzurei <3 gnurbs19:43
epitronhow aboyt AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAcad19:43
kanzure^W^W^Wcad?19:43
epitronit'll come first in alphabetical package lists19:43
dustbinmight as well go with 0000cad then19:44
epitronalphabuilder19:44
kanzure0cad19:44
epitronocad is going to clash with the ontario college of art and design19:44
kanzurebut then it will be mistaken for canadian currency19:44
epitronit's a big school :)19:44
dustbinchurlcad19:44
kanzureangrycad19:45
epitronCAD kinda feels like a big complex painful thing19:45
kanzurethat's what the marketing depts. of solidworks want you to think19:45
epitroni'm tlaking about the associations in the minds of people hearing the name19:45
kanzuretbh the user interface stuff is probably a huge ordeal though yeah19:46
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epitrontinyforge19:46
kanzureweecad19:47
epitronhaha19:47
kanzurealso sounds like "wicked"19:47
epitronweebuilder19:47
epitronoh, that's true19:47
epitronweekid19:47
epitronweeforge19:48
kanzureyea big cad19:48
kanzure"yea" doesn't translate well into text19:48
kanzurelilcad19:48
kanzure.. or lolcad?19:48
kanzure"i can has sphere?"19:48
epitronhaha19:49
epitronlolcadz19:49
kanzurei am angry about tinycad being taken :/19:49
epitroni'd go with lolcad19:49
epitronthat sounds awesome19:49
epitronit associates good things with your program, and it sounds like a cad, but it also sounds like it's light 19:50
kanzurethis is a terrible idea, nobody is going to base a nuclear missile off of a software package called "lolcad"19:50
kanzurelolnuke19:51
kanzuremaybe this is a design feature19:51
kanzurebabicad19:52
QuantumGflacad19:53
kanzure:(19:53
epitronkanzure: that's the beauty19:56
epitronyou don't WANT people making nuclear missiles19:56
epitron:D19:56
epitrononly good things can come from a program called lolcad19:56
epitronyou can rebrand it later if you want19:57
epitroni'd imagine you're still in the embryonic stages19:57
QuantumGfetalcad19:58
kanzuresadcad19:58
QuantumGnot to be confused with faecalcad19:58
QuantumGbadcad19:59
QuantumGradcad is onpar with lolcad19:59
kanzureradcad is the name of a thermal radiation simulator thingy IIRC19:59
kanzurepadcad, sadcad, badcad, fadcad, gladcad, madcad, scadcad (haha openscad would be pissed), tadcad, vladcad20:00
dustbinkancad20:01
QuantumGmadcad?20:01
QuantumGseems appropriate20:01
kanzuremancad20:01
QuantumGfemcad20:01
kanzuredustbin: i dunno about including my nicknames or real names into it20:01
kanzureheekscad did that :/20:02
QuantumGwhy, bishopcad sounds reasonable20:02
dustbinyoucad20:03
dustbinthat way when people say the name they are insulting someone20:03
QuantumGwhateveritscad20:03
QuantumGitscad20:03
kanzurelaunchcad20:04
kanzurescantilycad20:04
dustbinI like puns20:04
kanzureamericancad20:05
DaekenTotally Cadass20:06
dustbincaddy20:07
kanzurehow about cubcad?20:07
kanzurehm.. caddy20:07
kanzureyeah i'm sorry but i think lolcad beats the heck out of all of this20:08
dustbinit does20:08
kanzureexcept maybe youcad20:08
kanzurequantumcad20:09
kanzurelikecad20:10
kanzureis there any way i can claim the tinycad name for myself?20:11
kanzuremaybe femtocad but i'm not doing fem2cad?20:11
kanzurecadmium20:20
dustbinI like element names20:21
dustbinget to use their symbol20:22
kanzurefoocad hahah20:22
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epitron<kanzure> launchcad20:36
epitron<kanzure> scantilycad20:36
epitronhahah20:36
epitronscantilycad is pretty awesome20:37
epitronit's tough competition for lolcad20:37
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jrayhawkWell, at least the reprap guys want multiple repositories.21:20
jrayhawkyoubounder,youcad21:21
jrayhawkcaddish21:22
jrayhawkcaddage21:22
katsmeow-afkcadsmere, the velvety smooth cad software21:23
jrayhawkcaddy: don't forget to tip (bryan) (tip bryan) (give your money to bryan) (this is not optional)21:26
jrayhawkcadenza21:28
jrayhawkcadette21:29
jrayhawkfuck it just grep ^cad /usr/share/dict/american-english-insane and dict until you find something appropriate21:29
jrayhawk^cab also works if you like making people groan21:30
katsmeow-afki sometimes feel that way too21:30
katsmeow-afkbe cute, make it recursive21:31
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kanzure"despicable me" my ass23:10
kanzurethat guy was not nearly evil enough23:10
kanzurecadabra23:14
kanzuredamn it http://cadabra.info/CADlibrary.htm23:15
katsmeow-afkcadesign?23:16
kanzureso taken23:16
kanzurebytecad?23:17
kanzureooh. cadmus23:18
kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cadmus23:18
dustbincadmus very nice not terribly obscure either23:40
dustbinhuh looked up who cadmus actually is in greek mythology didn't know that23:42
--- Log closed Thu Sep 09 00:00:17 2010

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