| --- Log opened Fri Sep 10 00:00:17 2010 | ||
| jrayhawk | I just got rid of the denyNonFastForwardss's's'ss | 01:08 |
|---|---|---|
| jrayhawk | i wonder why the configs and permissions keep getting screwed up on your repos | 01:09 |
| jrayhawk | I think I will just blame --mirror and be done with it. | 01:11 |
| jrayhawk | cadoodle | 01:16 |
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| jmil | ok thanks jrayhawk | 04:29 |
| jmil | can you tell me how to fix: git clone git://diyhpl.us/reprap | 04:29 |
| jmil | jrayhawk: i don't know how to re-enable cloning of the repo | 04:30 |
| jrayhawk | horm | 04:32 |
| jrayhawk | you appear to have been doing manual filesystem operations again | 04:32 |
| jmil | see adrian's email, he's abandoning common sense | 04:36 |
| jmil | you can just nuke all .git repos and turn off my account | 04:36 |
| jrayhawk | hooray, less work for me | 04:37 |
| jmil | thanks for trying in this experiment | 04:37 |
| jmil | kanzure: not sure if you want to try with Adrian on your own given your ikiwiki stuff | 04:40 |
| jrayhawk | FWIW you deleted the git-daemon-export-ok file, and you furthermore broke the g+ws permissions necessary for shared repos to work properly. | 04:53 |
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| ybit | moin #hplusroadmap | 05:43 |
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| ybit | who is this person: http://metavalent.com/ | 06:44 |
| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 07:10 |
| JayDugger | ybit, the QR Code just encodes "http://metavalent.com". | 07:13 |
| kanzure | ybit: metavalent@gmail.com i used to talk with him in 2007 | 07:15 |
| kanzure | icq is 1235064 | 07:15 |
| JayDugger | OFF-TOPIC: fenn's photo of a double rainbow from Burning Man. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fennfoot/4976869982/ | 07:19 |
| JayDugger | Quite literally only the second picture I've ever seen from Burning Man that makes me interested in attending. | 07:30 |
| phryk | Mhh | 07:32 |
| phryk | 13 days till implantation :3 | 07:32 |
| JayDugger | ? | 07:32 |
| phryk | Neodymium implant ;P | 07:32 |
| phryk | I'm getting all fuzzy inside. | 07:32 |
| JayDugger | What will that do for you? | 07:32 |
| phryk | Extra sense. | 07:32 |
| phryk | Electromagnetic fluctiation | 07:33 |
| JayDugger | Oh, magnetic and electric fields? | 07:33 |
| phryk | Yeah | 07:33 |
| phryk | It's gonna be awesome ^_^ | 07:33 |
| uniqanomaly__ | phryk: do you plan to use anesthetic? | 07:33 |
| phryk | Mhh your finger get's cooled | 07:33 |
| phryk | but I'm getting some metamizol from a friend - just in case ;P | 07:33 |
| phryk | Cutting with a scalpel shouldn't be too much to bear... | 07:34 |
| phryk | stitching could be another story, though | 07:34 |
| JayDugger | Do you work around electronics or voltages (0.6-34 kV)? | 07:34 |
| M-xDaeken | phryk: what are you using coating-wise? | 07:35 |
| phryk | I work as coder | 07:35 |
| phryk | Harddisks don't get deleted, magnet cards not either. | 07:35 |
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| phryk | M-xDaeken: its neodyme coated in gold coated in silicon if i'm not mistaken | 07:35 |
| M-xDaeken | ah. i was considering the same, but i've seen some... bad results when the silicon fails :P | 07:36 |
| phryk | that was one of the old ones | 07:36 |
| M-xDaeken | yea, i haven't seen any recent ones at all | 07:36 |
| phryk | at least lepht told me, the new ones don't have that failure. | 07:36 |
| M-xDaeken | awesome | 07:36 |
| JayDugger | I wonder if it would have any use for electronics work... | 07:36 |
| phryk | I think the old ones were ricecorn-shaped while the new ones are round or something like that | 07:37 |
| phryk | maybe | 07:37 |
| phryk | at least for electric personell | 07:37 |
| JayDugger | That's $DAYJOB. | 07:37 |
| phryk | they can feel cables that have running power from a distance so they won't touch them ;P | 07:37 |
| JayDugger | Where can I learn more? | 07:38 |
| phryk | dunno, try steve haworths site | 07:38 |
| phryk | or if you haven't seen it, watch quinn nortons bodyhacking talk from the 23c3 ;) | 07:38 |
| phryk | thats how I came to know it | 07:38 |
| JayDugger | http://www.stevehaworth.com/ | 07:38 |
| JayDugger | Hmm...I wonder how people with them handle TSA at airports. | 07:40 |
| phryk | No problems according to some faq i hav eseen somewhere :D | 07:40 |
| M-xDaeken | Phreedom: where are you having it/them implanted, if you don't mind my asking? | 07:40 |
| phryk | i think it was even at haworths page | 07:40 |
| phryk | M-xDaeken: mannheim | 07:41 |
| phryk | haworth is there on 22 and 23 | 07:41 |
| M-xDaeken | phryk: no no, i meant where at finger-wise haha | 07:41 |
| phryk | JayDugger: the problem is mrt ;P | 07:41 |
| phryk | oh | 07:41 |
| phryk | left ring finger tip thingy stuff | 07:41 |
| M-xDaeken | ah, very cool | 07:41 |
| M-xDaeken | man, you've got me all kinds of interested in it again :P | 07:42 |
| JayDugger | MRT? Oh, trains. I've heard of those. | 07:42 |
| phryk | :) | 07:42 |
| phryk | no not trains... | 07:42 |
| phryk | magnetic resonance thingy | 07:42 |
| JayDugger | http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2006/23C3-1629-en-body_hacking.html | 07:42 |
| JayDugger | Oh. | 07:42 |
| phryk | i think it's mri in english | 07:42 |
| JayDugger | Well, yes. | 07:42 |
| M-xDaeken | apparently i'm not abusing my body enough for science right now... about to shave my head so i can wear an EEG full time :P | 07:42 |
| phryk | or mri in german, can never remember that one ^^; | 07:42 |
| phryk | M-xDaeken: heh | 07:42 |
| phryk | I have a small wound on my arm that i keep open since 4 weeks or so... | 07:43 |
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| kanzure | i wouldn't exactly recommend lepht as a role model | 07:56 |
| phryk | Yeah :D | 08:02 |
| phryk | Pretty cool as a person, though... | 08:02 |
| phryk | btw the faq http://www.stevehaworth.com/wordpress/index.php/welcome-from-steve-haworth/magnetic-faq | 08:05 |
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| ybit | hrm... | 08:21 |
| ybit | can't edit my selection on the poll... | 08:22 |
| ybit | cadmium, ...nah | 08:22 |
| ybit | ignore my cadmium vote :) | 08:22 |
| ybit | have to be registered... | 08:23 |
| ybit | i like cadabra the best | 08:28 |
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| kanzure | fenn: dave and i are presenting at manufacturing.swri.org on wednesday (2010-09-15) | 08:54 |
| kanzure | and presumably we're going to demo 'stuff' | 08:54 |
| drazak | 'stuff'? | 09:08 |
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| kanzure | diybio/biobus interview http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/09/world_maker_faire_ny_diybio_on_the.html | 10:07 |
| kanzure | or here: http://syok.sripengantin.com/2010/09/10/world-maker-faire-ny-diybio-on-the-biobus-interview/ | 10:08 |
| kanzure | biofuel stuff http://diybiology.blogspot.com/2010/09/synthetic-biology-research-on-biofuels.html | 10:08 |
| kanzure | http://www.wordlab.com/groups/company-names/forum/topic/garage-biotech-supply-company-name/ | 10:08 |
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| kanzure | hello LiudvikasT | 10:12 |
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| kanzure | hello LiudvikasT | 10:19 |
| LiudvikasT | hi? | 10:19 |
| Utopiah | http://stackvm.com shared VMs in the browser | 10:22 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: women didn't get the right to vote only for you to sit on your butt! | 10:25 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: http://doodle.com/pspwheq7xits4kb7 | 10:25 |
| kanzure | (to be fair, it's not a democratic poll, but if there's some significant trend in the end, it will help my decision) | 10:25 |
| Utopiah | is the women thing a ref. to the recent France Maconnerie change? | 10:27 |
| kanzure | huh? no | 10:27 |
| kanzure | i was insinuating that you were a woman i guess | 10:27 |
| kanzure | there's really no reason | 10:27 |
| Utopiah | Ill vote for bishopcad then | 10:32 |
| bkero | lol bishopcad | 10:44 |
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| Utopiah | http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/the-glenn-foundation-symposium-on-aging June 2010 | 10:59 |
| kanzure | oof my home directory on davinci was 64 GB? | 10:59 |
| M-xDaeken | kanzure: 2cd33f7a49ac1b798711cfe9000803bc | 11:02 |
| M-xDaeken | :) | 11:02 |
| kanzure | a commit hash? | 11:02 |
| kanzure | is that the key? | 11:03 |
| * M-xDaeken grins | 11:03 | |
| kanzure | how'd you find it | 11:03 |
| M-xDaeken | well, i emulated the epoc (the WDK includes a beta framework called dsf (device simulator framework) which makes it trivial to make fake hid devices), set breakpoints on all the crypto routines i found, and... got jack shit. i was jumping blindly through references waiting for something to stand out, and... saw that in plaintext, right near the sbox :/ | 11:04 |
| M-xDaeken | and when i say plaintext, i really mean plaintext. it's a fucking string :P | 11:04 |
| kanzure | how were you adding breakpoints btw? | 11:05 |
| M-xDaeken | just using the IDA debugger. running the epoc control panel | 11:05 |
| * kanzure nods | 11:05 | |
| kanzure | cool :) | 11:05 |
| kanzure | have you tested it | 11:06 |
| M-xDaeken | nope, not yet. constantly getting up looking to see if the mailman gets here with my damn epoc :P | 11:06 |
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| M-xDaeken | ... huh. that may be one of... many keys. | 11:07 |
| M-xDaeken | very odd... | 11:08 |
| M-xDaeken | that said, i know exactly where the crypto actually takes place, once my damn epoc gets here... i'm just impatient :P | 11:08 |
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| kanzure | my $HOME was 113 GB? | 12:07 |
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| JayDugger | Yeah, $HOME grows large if you don't move projects and documents to other servers. | 13:10 |
| JayDugger | Anyway, good night everyone. | 13:11 |
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| kanzure | hi clever | 13:26 |
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| kanzure | http://sciencepark.cc/2010/09/10/looking-ahead-and-back-bioethics-commission-meets-monday-tuesday/ | 16:16 |
| kanzure | and http://sciencepark.cc/2010/07/16/what-the-presidents-bioethics-commission-should-say-about-synthetic-biology/ | 16:16 |
| kanzure | also mac is still looking for a name for his diybio.org company thing http://www.crowdspring.com/project/2288147_name-a-biohacking-supply-company/activity/ | 16:18 |
| kanzure | lol openpcr is his "competitor" | 16:19 |
| kanzure | Andrew Lahser <andrew_lahser@merck.com> | 16:32 |
| kanzure | well that's cool | 16:32 |
| kanzure | they decided to incinerate the town for dioxin? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri | 17:12 |
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| kanzure | http://briefing.singularityu.org/ | 17:24 |
| kanzure | web crawling api http://www.80legs.com/ | 17:32 |
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| epitron | you ever seen http://www.majestic12.co.uk/ kanzure? | 21:30 |
| kanzure | "You guys make Armadillo Aerospace [armadilloaerospace.com] look like Lockheed Martin." | 21:31 |
| epitron | go backhanded insults | 21:32 |
| joshcryer | Who? | 21:33 |
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| epitron | probably those guys from denmark he was dissing before | 21:38 |
| kanzure | hehe solidworks fandom http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=212750&cid=17313804 | 21:40 |
| kanzure | epitron: nah, i was reading an old slashdot article | 21:40 |
| kanzure | (not the one i just linked to) | 21:40 |
| kanzure | they were dissing openluna.org | 21:41 |
| kanzure | i have to say, autocad/solidworks/catia/pro engineer/unigraphics/ansys/etc. do a very good job of making CAD look impossibly complex | 21:41 |
| kanzure | imho web browsers are more complex than CAD kernels | 21:41 |
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| epitron | http://www.flickr.com/photos/fennfoot/4884887588/in/photostream/ | 21:42 |
| epitron | hey, taht looks handy... | 21:42 |
| epitron | do you guys know what that app is called? | 21:42 |
| epitron | or is it "proprietary" | 21:42 |
| epitron | also, you're right... not many things are more complex than web browsers | 21:43 |
| epitron | i was blown away when i downloaded the chrome source code and it was like 2 gigs | 21:43 |
| epitron | it was a freakin' monster | 21:43 |
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| epitron | i still don't understand why they're that complex... i guess it's all the legacy crap? | 21:44 |
| katsmeow-afk | re: burning that town : When the original US EPA inventory of dioxin sources was done in 1987, incineration represented over 80% of known dioxin sources. | 21:44 |
| kanzure | epitron: i had the same feeling when i downloaded mozilla/firefox | 21:44 |
| dustbin | I'd love to see a pure html5 browser | 21:45 |
| epitron | last time i looked at mozilla's source was 1999 | 21:45 |
| epitron | NEVER AGAIN | 21:45 |
| kanzure | yeah :( | 21:45 |
| epitron | dustbin: hmmm! that's a cool idea | 21:45 |
| dustbin | it would be kinda pointless | 21:45 |
| dustbin | but cool | 21:45 |
| epitron | yeah... | 21:45 |
| epitron | radical simplification | 21:45 |
| kanzure | epitron: that was randal koene i bet, probably some emacs thing | 21:45 |
| epitron | eww emacs | 21:45 |
| epitron | i was hoping it was a curses app :( | 21:46 |
| kanzure | ncurses4life rep-re-sent | 21:46 |
| epitron | BUUYA | 21:46 |
| epitron | s/u/o/i | 21:46 |
| kanzure | so yeah, i think that people just work CAD up to be this huge monstrous thing | 21:46 |
| epitron | g | 21:46 |
| kanzure | it really helps keep people out of their business i guess | 21:46 |
| epitron | well, all apps get feature creep | 21:46 |
| epitron | everyone needs some little extra thing added | 21:46 |
| epitron | apps that don't design a plugin system from the beginning have that issue | 21:47 |
| kanzure | "what!? surfaces? oh man that sounds really hard!" | 21:47 |
| kanzure | "oh man, merging surfaces? passing lines through surfaces?! oh man i haven't done that since.. calculus 2" | 21:47 |
| epitron | wha? :) | 21:47 |
| kanzure | (in reality you should have done that pre-per-pre-pre-calculus-2) | 21:47 |
| epitron | i've never used a CAD app... what are you talking about? | 21:47 |
| kanzure | s/per/pre/ | 21:47 |
| epitron | i've used 3D modelling apps | 21:47 |
| kanzure | you've never used CAD | 21:47 |
| kanzure | what 3D modelling apps? | 21:47 |
| epitron | 3dsR5 for dos... 3dsmax a little... maya a little... blender a little | 21:48 |
| kanzure | yeah i used to be into 3d modelling.. 3dsmax, maya, blender, anima8or | 21:48 |
| epitron | zbrush | 21:48 |
| kanzure | totally not the same though, one sec | 21:48 |
| dustbin | ever used houdini? | 21:48 |
| kanzure | no | 21:48 |
| epitron | but what's this calculus 2 thing? you need to manually pass lines through surfaces in CAD apps? :) | 21:48 |
| kanzure | no | 21:49 |
| kanzure | i mean the underlying math library | 21:49 |
| epitron | ah | 21:49 |
| kanzure | that's what's supposedly "hard" about writing a CAD kernel | 21:49 |
| epitron | right | 21:49 |
| kanzure | epitron: try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znlpxo-mWBE | 21:49 |
| epitron | it just sounded a lot like the pattern i've seen in every app ever | 21:49 |
| epitron | as it gets more popular, and supports more customers, they add more buttons/menu-items/macros | 21:49 |
| epitron | until it's this crazy pile of shit | 21:49 |
| kanzure | nah, that's not what's going on | 21:50 |
| kanzure | although some CAD systems are like that | 21:50 |
| kanzure | god that video sucks | 21:50 |
| epitron | usually they have to add those features because the users have no other way to do it... there's no scripting engine... | 21:50 |
| epitron | so the users are stuck | 21:50 |
| epitron | so the softwrae developer goes, "meh we'll just add all these things they'll use once every 6 months" | 21:50 |
| kanzure | nah, all the major CAD packages have some form of scripting | 21:50 |
| epitron | i see ... | 21:51 |
| epitron | okay, watching video :) | 21:51 |
| kanzure | the video sucks | 21:51 |
| kanzure | let me find something better | 21:51 |
| epitron | OMG did you know what CAD stands for?! | 21:51 |
| epitron | this video is awesome | 21:51 |
| kanzure | :( | 21:51 |
| kanzure | damn it i'll just use a pythonOCC example | 21:52 |
| joshcryer | just use pirates solidworks | 21:53 |
| joshcryer | pirated | 21:53 |
| epitron | i don't wanna know about CAD that badly :) | 21:53 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: i'm trying to find a video to explain to epitron what the difference is between CAD and 3D mesh modeling | 21:53 |
| kanzure | although i guess a video will not really explain it | 21:53 |
| kanzure | since it will just look like a 3D object | 21:53 |
| epitron | apparently it's gotta do with constraints | 21:53 |
| epitron | and probably physics | 21:54 |
| kanzure | as you click around or script up your part, imagine you have the full history tree of operations | 21:54 |
| epitron | okay | 21:54 |
| kanzure | and then being able to change the parameters for each dimension in that history tree | 21:54 |
| epitron | okay... | 21:54 |
| kanzure | but also with constraints to make sure you don't contradict yourself | 21:54 |
| epitron | wait.. history is linear | 21:54 |
| epitron | what's the tree aspect? | 21:54 |
| kanzure | maybe you go off to work on different surfaces | 21:54 |
| epitron | ah, right | 21:55 |
| epitron | so it's histories for all your subparts | 21:55 |
| joshcryer | heh | 21:55 |
| kanzure | ok maybe this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7jc03F1Q08#t=4m20sec | 21:55 |
| kanzure | also the underlying mathematical model of the geometry makes a 'closed surface' | 21:55 |
| kanzure | (using NURBS usually) | 21:55 |
| epitron | that's a low-res-ass video | 21:56 |
| kanzure | if you squint it looks just like typical 3D modelling tools i guess | 21:56 |
| kanzure | but it's the underlying data structure that matters most | 21:57 |
| kanzure | (i.e. it's not just a bundle of triangles) | 21:57 |
| epitron | awesome | 21:57 |
| epitron | i remember having to extrude things in 3DSR5 | 21:57 |
| epitron | :D | 21:57 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm happy with that link, that should at least confer some aspect of wtf i'm talking about | 21:57 |
| epitron | they call these things "sketches".. did they call 'em that because of ivan sutherland's sketchpad? | 21:59 |
| epitron | i feel like there's some similarities here | 21:59 |
| kanzure | draftsmen probably called it a sketch too.. pretty common term :P | 22:00 |
| epitron | aha | 22:00 |
| epitron | i'm just watching this "how to make a bolt" video... | 22:00 |
| epitron | that's exactly what sutherland's first presentation was | 22:01 |
| joshcryer | Blender has very similar features to that video. | 22:05 |
| kanzure | as i said, the underlying data structure is more important | 22:07 |
| joshcryer | That's what exporters are for. | 22:08 |
| kanzure | i think you fail at programming, sir | 22:08 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cadfaq | 22:08 |
| joshcryer | I read your CAD FAQ and do not consider "ha ha ha don't get me started :(" a sufficient reason. | 22:09 |
| kanzure | ok have fun turning mspaint into CAD | 22:09 |
| kanzure | (i'm not saying blender is mspaint but that with enough effort any software can do anything) | 22:10 |
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| joshcryer | export -> dxf/dwg | 22:28 |
| joshcryer | or export -> stl | 22:32 |
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| joshcryer | only real difference is that blender (and other 3d graphics apps) allow you to make non-closed / broken meshes | 22:33 |
| joshcryer | which any competent designer shouldn't do | 22:33 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: sorry, but stl is still irrelevant here | 22:35 |
| joshcryer | OK, if you say so. | 22:39 |
| kanzure | well, | 22:40 |
| kanzure | do you have evidence to the contrary? | 22:40 |
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| joshcryer | What's your problem with STL? | 22:55 |
| joshcryer | STL is trivially loaded into a CAM and is sufficient to get a huge variety of jobs done. | 22:57 |
| kanzure | i think you don't understand the difference though between a parametric solid geometry model and meshes | 23:02 |
| kanzure | solid doesn't mean "no leaks" | 23:02 |
| joshcryer | From the point of view of a CAM there's absolutely no difference between a solid CSG cube and a fully closed cube mesh with the normals outside. None. | 23:05 |
| kanzure | s what | 23:05 |
| kanzure | *so what | 23:05 |
| kanzure | going from a geometry model to a mesh is just a matter of tessellation so i don't see why that's important | 23:06 |
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| joshcryer | You haven't established what's wrong with STL. | 23:16 |
| kanzure | it's the wrong format, that's what's wrong | 23:19 |
| kanzure | it doesn't preserve the same information at all | 23:19 |
| kanzure | it's like telling me i should distribute source code to you by sending you a compiled binary blob for software | 23:19 |
| QuantumG | that sounds like a reasonable analogy | 23:22 |
| joshcryer | What information do you think is relevant to me that an .stl file cannot convey? | 23:22 |
| QuantumG | I wish more game art was modelled in CSG | 23:22 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: because i spend all my time thinking about this :( | 23:22 |
| QuantumG | cause you could infinitely scale it | 23:22 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: yeah that'd be hawt | 23:22 |
| kanzure | you can scale STL files too of course by some common multiplier | 23:22 |
| QuantumG | and 10 years from now a model could be generated for hardware available then without having to redo the design process | 23:22 |
| kanzure | "redo the design process" you mean rehiring eager asians to do 200 hours of modelling work? | 23:23 |
| QuantumG | yeah.. pushing polygons | 23:23 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: boundary representation, CSG, nurbs, curves, circles, arcs, parabolas, mathematical objects | 23:24 |
| kanzure | surfaces other than triangles | 23:24 |
| QuantumG | now, I'm not necessarily saying that I want a model description that can be automatically converted into a mesh/texture/bump-map/light-map/whatever else, automatically.. that'd be nice, but I'm realistic. | 23:24 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: povray? :P | 23:24 |
| kanzure | actually i don't think anybody has written a povray->STL thing | 23:25 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, and those are relevant to me, HOW? My CAM doesn't give a shit, indeed, you're making it harder for my CAM to properly do shit since it has to do all sorts of conversion. | 23:25 |
| kanzure | especially since povray has lots of other additional features | 23:25 |
| QuantumG | you should be able to accurately represent a high resolution surface.. then semi-automatically transform that into whatever is appropriate for the application. | 23:25 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: maybe your cam is just a load of shit then | 23:26 |
| kanzure | sorry but mathematical objects are actually relevant here | 23:26 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, maybe my cam is practical. | 23:26 |
| kanzure | uh | 23:26 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, and your method can't even scan shit. | 23:26 |
| QuantumG | maybe your CAM today is not going to be your CAM tomorrow | 23:26 |
| kanzure | "scan shit" what? | 23:26 |
| QuantumG | and so when you switch CAM you're going to need to make a new model | 23:26 |
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| kanzure | look, it doesn't sound like you understood my object/source code analogy | 23:27 |
| kanzure | CAM doesn't even need to be a part of the tool chain if you do the source code part right :) | 23:27 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: is there a way for me to make this more obvious | 23:28 |
| QuantumG | perhaps explain some non-CAM applications | 23:29 |
| kanzure | what? | 23:29 |
| QuantumG | impact analysis is a common one | 23:29 |
| QuantumG | radiation analysis is good for space-assets | 23:29 |
| kanzure | no i mean "binary vs. code" | 23:29 |
| QuantumG | well, it's not necessarily a true analogy. often people make polygon models instead of CSG because it's easier to make polygon models... that's not the same with binaries. | 23:30 |
| kanzure | sometimes people code in assembly because it's easier | 23:31 |
| kanzure | seems about right to me? | 23:31 |
| kanzure | except that compiled-to-assembly is usually incomprehensible | 23:31 |
| QuantumG | who does that? | 23:31 |
| kanzure | the embedded guys? | 23:31 |
| QuantumG | it's not cause it's easier that they do it. | 23:31 |
| kanzure | heh true | 23:31 |
| QuantumG | often it's because they're archaic :) | 23:32 |
| QuantumG | I expect it's the same with CAM people | 23:32 |
| kanzure | "you're not fired, you're just deprecated" | 23:32 |
| QuantumG | hacking the g-code cause it makes 'em feel like a man | 23:32 |
| kanzure | well it does | 23:32 |
| epitron | so manly | 23:33 |
| epitron | you know what kinda amazed me... | 23:33 |
| kanzure | puts (more) hair on your chest | 23:33 |
| epitron | how rapidly people could make new campaigns for L4D2 given all the game assets | 23:33 |
| epitron | they just pump that shit out | 23:33 |
| epitron | there's like 20 awesome new campaigns | 23:33 |
| epitron | free! | 23:33 |
| kanzure | huh? you mean ludum dare? | 23:33 |
| epitron | what? | 23:34 |
| kanzure | oh wait i fail | 23:34 |
| kanzure | ignore me | 23:34 |
| kanzure | i've been living under a rock for a while so i haven't played left for dead | 23:34 |
| epitron | anyhow, i was thinking about what you were saying about modelling game assets in solid geometry | 23:34 |
| epitron | (QuantumG) | 23:34 |
| epitron | and thought about creating a giant database of real-world "Things" that people could use in their games | 23:35 |
| epitron | so they don't have to spend 3 years and hire a team of artists | 23:35 |
| QuantumG | I've been saying this for years now :) | 23:35 |
| epitron | they could just slap shit together | 23:35 |
| kanzure | sort of a universe.. of things.. oh wait, thingiverse is just STL files | 23:35 |
| epitron | what's an STL file? | 23:35 |
| QuantumG | people still don't get it.. it's all about pushing the polygons | 23:35 |
| kanzure | (although sometimes openscad files, which, can only be pushed to STL) | 23:35 |
| kanzure | stl is a collection of triangles | 23:35 |
| epitron | thingiverse is kinda ... not the same as what i'm talkin' about | 23:36 |
| QuantumG | open source game guys try to make free models.. pushing triangles.. and when they're done they've spent 12 months producing a model that will have "enough" polygons for 12 more months and then no-one wants to use their model anymore cause it's passe | 23:36 |
| kanzure | how about http://tracepartsonline.net/ | 23:36 |
| kanzure | or http://3dpartstream.net/ | 23:36 |
| kanzure | (both are bullshit though) | 23:36 |
| epitron | so left4dead modders have: every asset from every world, all the sounds, a giant array of snippets of dialogue spoken by the characters (including extra things that weren't in the game that were put there just for modders) | 23:37 |
| QuantumG | pushing triangles is like the most labor intensive process available | 23:37 |
| epitron | and it's incredibly productive | 23:37 |
| QuantumG | and yet that's what everyone does | 23:37 |
| epitron | yeah, totally | 23:37 |
| epitron | working in triangles is pretty stupid | 23:37 |
| epitron | it's kinda like programming | 23:38 |
| kanzure | voxels are the REAL future | 23:38 |
| epitron | we encode our idea into source code | 23:38 |
| epitron | then we push around the source code | 23:38 |
| epitron | instead of storing the idea and generating code from it | 23:38 |
| * kanzure nods | 23:38 | |
| kanzure | this is why parametric modelling is the best thing since awesome sauce | 23:38 |
| epitron | intentional software is neat too :) | 23:39 |
| kanzure | is that where mommy and daddy.. ? | 23:39 |
| kanzure | i mean is it like planned pregnancy? | 23:39 |
| QuantumG | imagine you had a program that could produce trees (I know the program exists) | 23:39 |
| epitron | whoa | 23:39 |
| QuantumG | you can tweak various parameters | 23:39 |
| QuantumG | out comes various trees | 23:40 |
| epitron | sept 8, Eric Anderson joins intentsoft | 23:40 |
| epitron | http://intentsoft.com/news/pr_09-08-10a.html | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | great, so now do we need a program that can produce cars? | 23:40 |
| epitron | kanzure: you don't know intentsoft? | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | you tweak various parameters, out comes various cars. | 23:40 |
| kanzure | no | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | how about vases? | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | or streetlights? | 23:40 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: so i've been working on a tiny python-based CAD kernel for a while now | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | or, humans. | 23:40 |
| kanzure | and i've been trying to figure out a name | 23:40 |
| epitron | charles simonyi, this genius from xerox parc who came up with wysiwy in the 70's, has been working on this for like 10 years | 23:40 |
| QuantumG | it's all one program | 23:41 |
| epitron | g | 23:41 |
| kanzure | so far i want lolcad, or tinycad if i can get a gladiator match with the guy who stole that name | 23:41 |
| epitron | wysiwyg | 23:41 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: you should vote on a name though http://www.doodle.com/pspwheq7xits4kb7 | 23:41 |
| epitron | he was microsoft's senior software architect | 23:41 |
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| QuantumG | you should have a program that you feed in a specification, then you can tweak the parameters, and produce output however you need it for your game engine | 23:41 |
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| QuantumG | epitron: I know too much about the guy.. flew to space on the Soyuz.. stayed at the ISS.. he was also Martha Stewart's boyfriend for a while (may still be, I don't know) | 23:42 |
| epitron | ewww | 23:42 |
| epitron | i didn't need to know that | 23:42 |
| epitron | http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/simonyi96intentional.html | 23:42 |
| epitron | that original paper there is a pretty good overview | 23:43 |
| epitron | he's written tons of crap since then, but that's the best crystallization of the idea i believe | 23:43 |
| epitron | ah crap, it's broken | 23:43 |
| epitron | QuantumG: so you like the idea of using intentsoft for games? | 23:44 |
| QuantumG | I haven't looked at it :) | 23:44 |
| kanzure | this sounds like marketing | 23:44 |
| epitron | cause that's the first thing that occurred to me when i read simonyi's edge interview in 2003 | 23:44 |
| epitron | kanzure: uh | 23:44 |
| kanzure | you read edge.org? | 23:44 |
| kanzure | i find this hard to believe | 23:44 |
| epitron | yeah man | 23:44 |
| epitron | why? | 23:44 |
| epitron | citeseer is broken :\ | 23:45 |
| kanzure | arent there a bajillion mirrors of citeseer | 23:45 |
| epitron | http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.19.6404&rep=rep1&type=pdf | 23:45 |
| epitron | there we go | 23:45 |
| epitron | yeah, like google scholar :) | 23:46 |
| * epitron gives citeseer the finger | 23:46 | |
| epitron | http://www.edge.org/digerati/simonyi/simonyi_p1.html | 23:47 |
| epitron | that's less dry :) | 23:47 |
| epitron | but yeah, simonyi has tried to explain intentsoft was "CAD for software" on a couple occasions | 23:48 |
| epitron | although he stopped calling it that, probably because it mislead people | 23:48 |
| kanzure | sounds like uml | 23:49 |
| kanzure | (i still haven't read it) | 23:49 |
| epitron | UML is nothing like this | 23:49 |
| jrayhawk | I still think pov should be the one true 3d format | 23:49 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: is that you being crazy? | 23:49 |
| epitron | kanzure: intentsoft is a "language workbench" | 23:49 |
| jrayhawk | Oh probably. | 23:49 |
| epitron | it lets you capture your program ideas before you code | 23:49 |
| epitron | then you write things that convert those into code | 23:49 |
| epitron | so that later on you can just modify the ideas | 23:49 |
| epitron | (ideas = intentions) | 23:50 |
| epitron | so you just go "download file" | 23:50 |
| kanzure | how is that not like uml's code generation stuff | 23:50 |
| epitron | instead of going "shit.. okay so how do i download a file" | 23:50 |
| epitron | UML is a terrible abomination, that's how! | 23:50 |
| epitron | also UML can't round-trip | 23:50 |
| epitron | the intentional editor doesn't let you edit source code directly | 23:50 |
| kanzure | that's what i am implying, this sounds awful so far :) | 23:50 |
| kanzure | but i haven't read it | 23:50 |
| epitron | what you see on your screen is a transformation from the storage format to your screen | 23:50 |
| epitron | when you edit something, it gets referse-transformed back to the storage format | 23:51 |
| epitron | then the storage can be converted to soruce code by another set of transformatiosn | 23:51 |
| epitron | so you have transformations from storage<->screen and storage<->binary | 23:51 |
| epitron | well, not back from binary | 23:51 |
| epitron | :) | 23:51 |
| kanzure | this is the same language the uml salesmen use | 23:51 |
| epitron | oh jesus | 23:51 |
| epitron | nevermind | 23:52 |
| epitron | i hate prejudiced assholes | 23:52 |
| kanzure | nah i'm just a tired asshole (that's why i haven't read it yet) | 23:52 |
| jrayhawk | Hello, ma'am, a busy housewife like you needs more abstraction and automation in your life, and what better way to abstract and automate than with our new patented-formula UML. | 23:53 |
| * epitron burns UML | 23:54 | |
| QuantumG | all the house-wives call me their "domain expert" .. booyah | 23:55 |
| --- Log closed Sat Sep 11 00:00:17 2010 | ||
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