| --- Log opened Wed Sep 22 00:00:18 2010 | ||
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| fenn | "best paper airplane" http://www.zurqui.com/crinfocus/paper/airplane.html | 01:46 |
|---|---|---|
| superkuh | I used to make those every morning during middle school. At least steps 1-24. I never made a tail. | 01:50 |
| Utopiah | fenn: anybody did some tests about paper design in virtual wind tunnels? | 01:55 |
| Utopiah | maybe submitting batches of random designs to http://raphael.mit.edu/Java/ :-# | 01:57 |
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| Utopiah | from Vimperator to http://dactyl.sourceforge.net/pentadactyl/faq ? | 03:28 |
| splicer | Solar water disinfection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection | 03:41 |
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| thesnark | Howdy all. | 07:38 |
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| archels | hello thesnark | 07:57 |
| archels | I've been told that you have high-resolution photographs of the internals of the Emotiv EPOC. :) | 07:57 |
| kanzure | huh michael simons (slackware) is a transhumanist | 08:05 |
| kanzure | (more like a masochist, but whatever) | 08:05 |
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| * ybit grrs at quassel :\\ | 09:19 | |
| ybit | or mayhaps freenode | 09:19 |
| ybit | either way, there's about 15 channels not being connected to automatically :| | 09:20 |
| ybit | #hplusroadmap, your on that list | 09:20 |
| ybit | you're* | 09:20 |
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| kanzure | http://blog.ponoko.com/2010/09/21/a-rush-order-to-washington-%E2%80%94-openpcr-presented-at-bioethics-commission/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Ponoko+%28Ponoko%29 | 10:04 |
| kanzure | hehe adding in url tracking is so stupid, i didn't even come from feedburner :( | 10:04 |
| archels | Right, finished The Grand Design by Stephen Hawking. | 10:21 |
| archels | Left me kinda wanting. | 10:21 |
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| kanzure | http://www.transhumanism.org/languages/russian/dawnofsingularity/Deering.htm | 11:59 |
| kanzure | do we have any russian lurkers | 11:59 |
| drazak | kanzure: so uh | 12:08 |
| drazak | kanzure: synthesizing sybrgreen I | 12:08 |
| dustbin | what's the russian link for? | 12:11 |
| drazak | kanzure: I think I might do it | 12:11 |
| mheld | kanzure: I'm russian | 12:15 |
| mheld | though my russian generally sucks | 12:15 |
| mheld | also, you wouldn't (per chance) happen to know ray kurzweil? | 12:16 |
| drazak | lol | 12:18 |
| drazak | he does | 12:18 |
| drazak | kanzure has mentioned him a ton | 12:18 |
| mheld | I meant personally | 12:18 |
| mheld | I would like an introduction to him :-) | 12:19 |
| drazak | Uhm | 12:19 |
| drazak | I think he's met him | 12:19 |
| archels | Why do you want to meet Ray Kurzweil? | 12:27 |
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| kanzure | ray is a very busy person | 12:35 |
| drazak | besides | 12:38 |
| archels | Who probably gets bothered a *lot* by nuts and non-nuts hoping to pitch their ideas. | 12:38 |
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| kanzure | hah! this makes my day | 13:19 |
| kanzure | Michael Annisimov <darkvegeta26@aol.com> | 13:19 |
| memorex | Who is that? | 13:19 |
| kanzure | michael is a friend.. runs acceleratingfuture.com | 13:19 |
| kanzure | hangs out with the singularity institute folks | 13:20 |
| kanzure | *anissimov | 13:20 |
| memorex | ah. | 13:20 |
| memorex | Do you know anything about p21? | 13:20 |
| kanzure | part 21? | 13:20 |
| memorex | I think so. I am new to all of this but I think so. | 13:21 |
| memorex | kanzure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P21 | 13:22 |
| kanzure | my laptop is acting up so i will be lagggging significantly | 13:23 |
| memorex | Alright, I can wait. | 13:23 |
| kanzure | ah the link you gave me is not the same thing i was thinking of ;) | 13:23 |
| memorex | oh | 13:23 |
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| kanzure | but kinase inhit | 13:23 |
| kanzure | blah | 13:24 |
| kanzure | but kinnnnase inhibitors do cool shit | 13:24 |
| memorex | Cure cancer? | 13:24 |
| memorex | It seems to be directly attached to inhibiting cancerous cells from mitosis. | 13:24 |
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| kanzure | tips for transhumanist activists: don't use screen names like darkvegeta26 | 13:44 |
| kanzure | http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/works/transhumanisttips.htm | 13:44 |
| kanzure | (it's actually in there) | 13:44 |
| Daeken | everything i do is under Daeken, but anyone googling that will immediately find my real name, by design | 13:45 |
| kanzure | yep | 13:47 |
| kanzure | i actually like the name 'darkvegeta26' | 13:47 |
| kanzure | :( | 13:47 |
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| kanzure | "to provide for the establishment of a national fab lab network" | 14:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-6003 | 14:00 |
| kanzure | one per 700,000 people is about 438 | 14:04 |
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| panax | http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html | 14:35 |
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| kanzure | hi bdesk | 15:31 |
| bdesk | hey | 15:31 |
| bdesk | i'm hanging out on irc because someone is supposed to msg me and then I help them with their theoretical computer science questions. i'll probably just look it up on wiki. | 15:32 |
| bdesk | just stopping by to make sure i didn't miss the singularity | 15:33 |
| Utopiah | 1h too late | 15:33 |
| bdesk | dam | 15:33 |
| bdesk | so i must be a bot then | 15:33 |
| Utopiah | or an historical archive | 15:34 |
| Utopiah | relax though, things will look the same at first. | 15:34 |
| Utopiah | since you are into CS note that there also is #ai (rather trolly) #agi (rather dead) #machinelearning (rather technical) and few others related channel | 15:37 |
| bdesk | #machinelearning has nice technical content but this channel has more interesting drama. | 15:39 |
| Utopiah | there is also #swig on web 11.0 | 15:39 |
| bdesk | swig is http://www.swig.org/ ? | 15:40 |
| Utopiah | Semantic Web Interest Group http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/ | 15:41 |
| Utopiah | do you have a website? | 15:43 |
| bdesk | no | 15:47 |
| Utopiah | so I should directly ask you what you are interested in? | 15:48 |
| bdesk | semantic web seems a bit idealistic because it appears to be predicated on people writing their codes to work with it, rather than just using advanced machine learning methods to scrape out what you need from whatever format other people use. | 15:48 |
| QuantumG | the problem with semantic web is that no-one knows what to do with it | 15:48 |
| QuantumG | what's the killer app? don't have one? ok, bye. | 15:49 |
| bdesk | Utopiah: i'm really here to see which diybio group turns their hacker space into a corporation and kicks out the riffraff. | 15:50 |
| kanzure | swig.org is #swig-wrapper | 15:51 |
| kanzure | also where's the drama in here? | 15:51 |
| kanzure | i want my drama :o | 15:51 |
| QuantumG | I wonder if that guy is still ignoring me | 15:51 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: pmetzger? | 15:51 |
| QuantumG | ya | 15:51 |
| kanzure | he's not in here | 15:51 |
| QuantumG | ignoring all of us then :) | 15:52 |
| kanzure | the best kind of /ignore | 15:52 |
| kanzure | bdesk: if it's a company then why not just call it a biotech startup | 15:52 |
| bdesk | because then you don't get the media bump at the beginning, or the diy chic. | 15:53 |
| QuantumG | I would kinda expect diy people to eventually find something commercial to do.. ya know, to support their habit | 15:55 |
| QuantumG | when's someone gunna diy themselves a bug that produces lsd or similar | 15:56 |
| bdesk | that's where Edward You comes in. | 15:56 |
| kanzure | i wasn't aware that mr. you travels | 15:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.fbi.gov/hq/nsb/wmd/images/hrtppe.jpg | 15:57 |
| kanzure | i mean, out of the united states :) | 15:58 |
| bdesk | but yeah, if diybio is unsustainable in the sense that the participants will need to find something commercial to do to support their eating or rent habits, then it just makes it that much more interesting to watch. | 15:59 |
| kanzure | well, "ignoring intellectual property" will definitely be an interesting biotech startup strategy to keep an eye on | 16:04 |
| kanzure | i for one was hoping we'd just come up with some other licensing scheme or anti-patent method | 16:04 |
| kanzure | but whatever | 16:04 |
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| bdesk | yes, that is another interesting issue. | 16:09 |
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| kanzure | bdesk: you're right, just about anyone can use diybio for their media bump | 16:18 |
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| mheld | I know ray's a very busy person | 16:19 |
| mheld | I'd like to have him as one of those super advisors who come down from their mountain every once in a while | 16:19 |
| kanzure | tmccabe37 has probably spent more time with him | 16:19 |
| mheld | ah | 16:20 |
| kanzure | actually 'davidad' used to be around in here.. ray's last book was dedicated to davidad :P or something | 16:21 |
| kanzure | Noahj: you don't think you can convince david to come back to idle, do you? | 16:22 |
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| mheld | oh | 16:29 |
| mheld | neat | 16:29 |
| tmccabe37 | Hey Kanzure | 16:34 |
| tmccabe37 | What about Ray? | 16:34 |
| kanzure | mheld was asking stuff | 16:34 |
| tmccabe37 | mheld: What about Ray? | 16:35 |
| mheld | hey | 16:37 |
| mheld | are you in contact with him? | 16:37 |
| mheld | I'd love to introduce myself and say hi | 16:38 |
| mheld | (and maybe get his thoughts on some stuff) | 16:38 |
| tmccabe37 | I work for Ray, but his time is very limited | 16:39 |
| mheld | I can understand that | 16:39 |
| tmccabe37 | What's your True Name? | 16:39 |
| mheld | Marc Held | 16:39 |
| mheld | I mean, maybe now isn't the right time | 16:40 |
| mheld | but at one point I'd love to say hi | 16:40 |
| tmccabe37 | Where are you located? | 16:41 |
| mheld | tmccabe37: you work at Kurzweil Tech? | 16:41 |
| mheld | I'm in/around boston | 16:41 |
| tmccabe37 | KurzweilAI.net | 16:41 |
| mheld | oh neat! | 16:41 |
| tmccabe37 | I'm currently in Connecticut though | 16:41 |
| mheld | ah | 16:42 |
| mheld | I mean, I have to admit that my intentions aren't the most pure | 16:42 |
| mheld | I'm working at a startup and I'd love to have his opinion on some stuff | 16:43 |
| tmccabe37 | What field? | 16:43 |
| mheld | kinda mobile software | 16:43 |
| mheld | we're building Jarvis from Iron Man | 16:43 |
| mheld | though right now, this iteration is essentially a glorified alarm clock | 16:44 |
| mheld | (mobile alarm clock) | 16:44 |
| tmccabe37 | That's not Ray's field | 16:44 |
| mheld | he's been in voice synthesis | 16:45 |
| mheld | no? | 16:45 |
| tmccabe37 | Yes, but that doesn't have much to do with alarm clocks | 16:46 |
| mheld | I'm not doing such a great job pitching the product | 16:46 |
| mheld | we're building a mobile application that vocally awakens users to their most pertinent information (email, calendar, news) | 16:47 |
| tmccabe37 | Which speech synthesis software are you using? | 16:48 |
| QuantumG | oh yeah, did anyone see that speech compression codec that Bruce Perens was floggin' on Slashdot? | 16:49 |
| tmccabe37 | I did not | 16:49 |
| mheld | heh, we're using a mix between espeak (IIRC -- it's whatever's built into the android sdk) and nuance | 16:50 |
| mheld | though for business reasons we might not end up using those | 16:50 |
| QuantumG | http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?page_id=452 | 16:51 |
| QuantumG | it looks pretty good | 16:51 |
| tmccabe37 | What's your current userbase like? | 16:51 |
| QuantumG | next time I get the "I wanna do something with speech" bug I might see if it's worthwhile using it as a frontend for speech recognition | 16:52 |
| mheld | tmccabe37: we're beta-ing it to 500 people right now, on the verge of launch pending word from pepsico -- we're a brand partner with them | 16:52 |
| mheld | QuantumG: that's awesome | 16:52 |
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| mheld | tmccabe37: feel free to tell me "no," I won't be offended | 16:53 |
| mheld | we're chatting with a bunch of the former wildfire guys, thought I might get ray's input | 16:54 |
| tmccabe37 | I'm hesitant to tell anyone "no" before hearing them out | 16:54 |
| mheld | ah | 16:54 |
| mheld | well, thanks for listening :-) | 16:54 |
| tmccabe37 | But if you don't have any real reason why you *need* to talk to him specifically, then there's not really a case I can make for him seeing you | 16:56 |
| bdesk | is ray kurzweil still working on stuff for blind people, or is it all life extension and media? | 16:56 |
| tmccabe37 | Yes | 16:56 |
| bdesk | yes to blind people? | 16:56 |
| tmccabe37 | http://www.knfbreader.com/ | 16:56 |
| mheld | tmccabe37: what's his involvement with TTS ATM? | 17:00 |
| bdesk | well knfbreader looks like it uses text-to-speech when it reads the text. | 17:01 |
| tmccabe37 | mheld: You can see kurzweiltech.com for an overview | 17:01 |
| mheld | I guess it would make more sense for me to chat with people from knfb first | 17:03 |
| bdesk | if it becomes feasible to live indefinitely long through technology, then should access to this technology become a human right? | 17:08 |
| mheld | tmccabe37: I'll come bug you once I have some actually interesting questions for ray | 17:12 |
| tmccabe37 | OK, thanks | 17:12 |
| kanzure | bdesk: what the hell is a "human right" and gtfo | 17:19 |
| QuantumG | spoken like a true american | 17:20 |
| mheld | bdesk: it'll most definitely be a privatized technology, so I'd be surprised if it was public access | 17:21 |
| mheld | there'd be some interesting population implications | 17:22 |
| mheld | unless you're talking non-physical stuff | 17:22 |
| kanzure | "privatized technology" is another way of saying imaginary intellectual property | 17:23 |
| kanzure | when did #hplusroadmap get so lame | 17:23 |
| mheld | it was me | 17:23 |
| mheld | I don't usually speak here :-P | 17:23 |
| kanzure | i don't think ray would be interested in getzazu | 17:24 |
| kanzure | :( | 17:24 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: you're so lame :P | 17:24 |
| mheld | that's fine, I'll convince him eventually | 17:24 |
| kanzure | ray isn't really worth convincing | 17:24 |
| kanzure | i mean, what have you to gain | 17:24 |
| mheld | insight | 17:24 |
| kanzure | uh he just steals that :P | 17:24 |
| kanzure | (although he credits people) | 17:24 |
| mheld | hmm | 17:25 |
| mheld | well, I still think it'd be interesting to see what he has to say | 17:25 |
| mheld | end goal is a not-evil skynet | 17:26 |
| bdesk | if you want transhumanism for yourself as soon as possible, is it more rational to try to accelerate its development or alternatively to become an orthodontist and make enough money to afford it when it comes? | 17:27 |
| QuantumG | or you could make enough money and give it to people like kanzure | 17:27 |
| kanzure | who says "when it comes" they will sell it to you? you should just make it yourself and get it over with | 17:28 |
| QuantumG | some funding and organization could do a lot for the transhumanist cause | 17:28 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: arguably, that's not true | 17:29 |
| kanzure | look at what millions of dollars have done for the world transhumanist association | 17:29 |
| QuantumG | there's good organization and bad | 17:29 |
| kanzure | too many marketing people, promotionalists, authors, essayists, etc., not enough learning/doing | 17:30 |
| kanzure | that's certainly true | 17:30 |
| QuantumG | yeah, technology startups with actual customers is what transhumanism needs | 17:30 |
| kanzure | for some reason i spend a lot of time trying to convince people like bdesk to give up his "Intellectual Property" ways or something | 17:30 |
| kanzure | i've been a little surprised that there are not more h+ startups around | 17:30 |
| kanzure | some if it might just be because nobody wants to brand their human engineering company as transhumanist ;) | 17:31 |
| kanzure | and also because the majority of the h+ community isn't actually conducive to startups | 17:31 |
| QuantumG | random example: people are always talking about how the best example of transhumanists today are people with prosthetics.. and yet no-one goes to any trouble to make prosthetics so awesome that non-afflicted people get jealous. | 17:31 |
| mheld | QuantumG: we're working on it :-) | 17:32 |
| bdesk | QuantumG: i asked about this earlier, and i was told that disabled people are assholes. | 17:32 |
| bdesk | which might be true, i don't really know. | 17:32 |
| QuantumG | heh. some certainly are | 17:33 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: in general, brain-computer interfaces aren't a solved thing quite yet | 17:33 |
| kanzure | i mean, microelectrode arrays involve lots of surgery and stuff and negligble benefits | 17:33 |
| QuantumG | friend of mine in a wheelchair used to go on about all the awesome stuff he wanted.. then his perspective changed to "I just want an affordable chair" and I think that's where most people in that situation end up. | 17:34 |
| kanzure | northpaw implanters aren't a huge market | 17:34 |
| bdesk | kanzure: do you have a link to your best argument against "Intellectual Property" ways? | 17:34 |
| QuantumG | and deaf people with cochlear implants are treated by the deaf community much the same as bisexual women are treated by the lesbian community. | 17:35 |
| kanzure | bdesk: reasonable request :) let me dig | 17:35 |
| mheld | I'd be interested in that | 17:35 |
| mheld | because we're in the midst of writing up some patent disclosures | 17:35 |
| mheld | I'm vehemently opposed to it, but it's good for investors | 17:35 |
| kanzure | bdesk: what perspective do you want | 17:35 |
| QuantumG | but ultimately the problem here is that people keep *asking* disabled people what they want. | 17:35 |
| kanzure | "why you shouldn't patent your technology" or "why there shouldn't be patents in the first place" | 17:35 |
| QuantumG | nothing revolutionary was ever made by consulting the customer's needs. | 17:36 |
| bdesk | in my future i'm seeing a lot of intellectual property ways in some form or other. presumably you would think that this is counterproductive, and you might be able to convince me that some other course of action would be preferable. | 17:36 |
| kanzure | ys | 17:36 |
| kanzure | *yes | 17:36 |
| kanzure | very much so | 17:36 |
| bdesk | also i realize that you probably don't want to deliver the rant manually on irc, which i why i thought you might have a link handy. | 17:37 |
| kanzure | i don't have a link handy, and this is weird :( | 17:38 |
| bdesk | for example i think that RMS wants people to work in food services and do their programming freely and in their spare time. | 17:38 |
| kanzure | really? | 17:39 |
| mheld | yeah, I think he's crazy | 17:39 |
| kanzure | that's not my interpretation | 17:39 |
| kanzure | why not just work at a software development house | 17:39 |
| QuantumG | uh huh.. he never said that.. what he said is that people who try to make the argument "I need to set aside my morals or I'll starve" are just being disingenuous | 17:40 |
| kanzure | bdesk: to be fair, if you wanted legal advice from me about startups and companies, using the USPTO to your advantage is one way to win (when it comes to business) and covering your bases | 17:41 |
| kanzure | esp. from a legal perspective | 17:41 |
| kanzure | after all, there's a craploaad of precedent, right? | 17:41 |
| QuantumG | some investors like patents | 17:41 |
| kanzure | *crapload | 17:41 |
| kanzure | lots of investors do :/ | 17:41 |
| QuantumG | they're morons but you have to tolerate morons if you want your money | 17:41 |
| QuantumG | "we want a patent so we can sue someone if they violate it, if you get one I'll give you $1M" "uh huh.. you're aware that it costs *at least* $1M to litigate a patent right?" | 17:42 |
| QuantumG | "and the years we spend waiting for the patent to be granted is time our competitors will have to enter the market first.." | 17:43 |
| kanzure | bdesk: this isn't very helpful http://www.futureofwipo.org/futureofwipodeclaration.html | 17:45 |
| kanzure | but it was from the creative commons (and a bunch of others) to the world intellectual property organization | 17:46 |
| QuantumG | whenever I talk to investment people about patents these days I say: which would you rather be funding: a company with actual customers bringing in revenue or a company waiting for a patent to be issued before they can sign up their first customer? cause the patent system precludes you from the first. | 17:46 |
| mheld | QuantumG: so, one of the companies we might end up going against has a M&A policy of suing companies | 17:49 |
| mheld | so the small companies have to give in | 17:49 |
| bdesk | kanzure: thanks, i'll read that | 17:49 |
| mheld | woah, how does the patent system force you to not have customers? | 17:49 |
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| kanzure | mheld: be careful, QuantumG is sometimes a troll | 17:50 |
| mheld | (I like this channel) | 17:51 |
| kanzure | hm bdesk left :( | 17:53 |
| QuantumG | because you're not allowed to patent anything you've already sold on the market | 17:53 |
| QuantumG | in the US you actually have 1 year from first sale | 17:53 |
| QuantumG | but that's essentially the same thing | 17:53 |
| kanzure | fundamentally a patent is the "right" (?) to exclude others from makng, using whatever was patented | 17:53 |
| kanzure | *making, selling, using | 17:54 |
| kanzure | computing is really hard when "tyyyyyypppppppppppinggggg turnssssss into thsisss" and linux freezes evvvvvvvvvveeeeeeerrryyy fuccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccck there it goes again | 17:54 |
| kanzure | what am i doing wrong | 17:55 |
| kanzure | "Copyright excludes unauthorized copying and related activities -- activities that are triggered by access to the protected work. Such access serves as the trigger or activating event | 17:57 |
| kanzure | for the copyleft license -- copying or adapting the open source code opens the copyist or adapter to a lawsuit unless the copying or adapting is done in accordance with the terms of the license." | 17:57 |
| kanzure | "But patent rights exclude all uses of the claimed invention, even those conducted independently, without any access to the invention. In such cases, the infringing act would not serve to channel the infringerwould into compliance with the terms of the license, as there would be no" | 17:57 |
| kanzure | "knowledge, let alone manifestation of assent, to the license." | 17:57 |
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| QuantumG | anyway, wall of text man | 18:02 |
| QuantumG | if you have just the one thing to start a company on, and your investors demand that you get a patent on it, then you should let them know that they'll be paying you to burn cash for quite a while before you can make the first dollar. | 18:02 |
| QuantumG | what I've seen people do is keep their day job while they wait for the patent to be granted, which they've paid for out of their own pocket, and then go try to start a company. | 18:04 |
| QuantumG | if they're stupid they tell the potential investor that they did this and wonder why no-one wants to fund them. hint: your employer may have claim to the patent. | 18:04 |
| kanzure | joseph jackson compiled a bibliography about patents and patent reform and anti-IP-sentiments | 18:05 |
| kanzure | http://freedomofscience.org/?page_id=10 | 18:05 |
| kanzure | 24 hours left for biocurious funding | 18:12 |
| kanzure | http://www.kickstarter.com/e/quBS9/projects/1040581998/biocurious-a-hackerspace-for-biotech-the-community | 18:12 |
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| kanzure | http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0921/Stuxnet-malware-is-weapon-out-to-destroy-Iran-s-Bushehr-nuclear-plant?sms_ss=email | 20:34 |
| kanzure | more stuxnet stuff | 20:34 |
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