| --- Log opened Mon Nov 29 00:00:08 2010 | ||
| fitzsim | QuantumG: with git though you can pull to a Tinderbox branch without messing up your own branches | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fitzsim | kanzure: svn log --stop-on-copy still only shows one log message | 00:02 |
| kanzure | oh hm | 00:02 |
| kanzure | fitzsim: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/log/?h=cad-ninad_20071211_selectMode_split | 00:03 |
| fitzsim | ok, good example | 00:04 |
| fitzsim | that one has multiple commits on the branch | 00:04 |
| fitzsim | and the converter got the history | 00:05 |
| fitzsim | but it's still not first-class git history | 00:05 |
| fitzsim | since it doesn't know the branch and merge points | 00:05 |
| fitzsim | so I'd be inclined to say that even though there is history on that branch, and even though it gets converted, it's not adding much historical value, versus looking at the SVN server backup | 00:06 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure it adds any value even in svn | 00:09 |
| fitzsim | it can, but you need to deduce the branch and merge points | 00:12 |
| kanzure | are you sure the stuff ever got merged in? | 00:12 |
| fitzsim | I didn't check that branch specifically | 00:25 |
| Redeemer | Kanzure, when ya got a moment, not sure if ya replied, but any further info on the rooming situation this upcoming weekend? | 00:26 |
| kanzure | Redeemer: nope i've got nothing | 00:28 |
| Redeemer | We'll just have to make sure we organize our arrival then at roughly the same time | 00:31 |
| Redeemer | That way payment stuff is easier. | 00:31 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: anyway, discarding all SVN tags and branches could be an opportunity to make the repository smaller | 00:33 |
| fitzsim | s/repository/git repository/ | 00:33 |
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| fitzsim | kanzure: I meant discarding them during the conversion process so they don't show up in the git history at all | 01:08 |
| jrayhawk | the way to make the repository smaller is to split it up and stop sticking everything in the same repository | 01:39 |
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| kanzure | archels: http://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/artificial-intelligence/moneta-a-mind-made-from-memristors/0# | 07:38 |
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| kanzure | an article on personalized genomics http://www.economist.com/node/16791936?story_id=16791936 | 07:46 |
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| archels | kanzure: sseehh posted that a few days ago in ##agi | 07:52 |
| archels | < archels> sseehh: so basically they want to combine a self-modifying memristor CPU with evolutionary selection? | 07:53 |
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| kanzure | hmm i must be getting slow | 07:54 |
| archels | He never replied to that, and the article was tl;dr. | 07:55 |
| JayDugger | Side effect of Thanksgiving dinner? | 07:55 |
| archels | That was the 24th... I don't even know when Thanksgiving is. 25th? Or the nearest weekend? | 07:56 |
| kanzure | haha makerbot now has a retail store in brooklyn | 07:56 |
| kanzure | archels: 25th | 07:57 |
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| kanzure | hi JayDugger | 07:57 |
| JayDugger | Thanksgiving happened last Thursday. | 08:00 |
| archels | Right, that might be it then. :) | 08:00 |
| archels | I thought that putting nanoscale analog computational elements through an evolutionary process might yield some interesting results that go beyond present simulations. | 08:02 |
| Utopiah | archels: might want to check FPGA networks by de Garis but he doesn't communicate often recently AFAIK | 08:03 |
| Utopiah | he used them to run ANN | 08:03 |
| kanzure | hugo de garis? | 08:03 |
| Utopiah | yes | 08:04 |
| JayDugger | Artificial Neural Networks? | 08:04 |
| kanzure | i used to hear his name a lot.. i think associated with transhumanism | 08:04 |
| Utopiah | yes | 08:04 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: yes | 08:04 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, he wrote a piece titled "The Artilect War." | 08:05 |
| Utopiah | his Chinese website doesn't show anything | 08:05 |
| JayDugger | No..., I think I have that wrong. | 08:05 |
| kanzure | oh that's right.. he was the one who flew ben goertzel out to china | 08:05 |
| archels | Utopiah: I know about his work, but those aren't analog, so arguably not as "evolvable". | 08:05 |
| kanzure | and got ben involved with the chinese government on opencog and xiaxen university | 08:05 |
| Utopiah | JayDugger: I think you have that right but I didn't read it, sounded too sci-fi for me | 08:08 |
| kanzure | now if you'll excuse me i must memorize the LHC rap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM | 08:09 |
| kanzure | it's actually a little basic :/ | 08:10 |
| JayDugger | He did write a piece titled "The Artilect War," but that happened in 1999. | 08:10 |
| JayDugger | Correctly rejected, IMO, by " Literary agents say my book is 'fantastical, too polemical', and not suitable for publication." | 08:12 |
| kanzure | self-publication yo | 08:12 |
| JayDugger | That only solves the distribution problem, not the literary merit problem. :) | 08:13 |
| Utopiah | paradoxically enough I think I agree with the basic idea of an arm race using computing power and software to exploit it but I dont necessarly agree with the conclusion and the grandiose style | 08:14 |
| Utopiah | but I didn't read it so :-# | 08:14 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, Stanislaw Lem did it better in "Imaginary Magnitude." | 08:14 |
| kanzure | sorry but we're too young to know about stanislaw lem | 08:14 |
| JayDugger | Polish science-fiction writer. | 08:15 |
| kanzure | oh, *i* know him | 08:15 |
| kanzure | but a surprising set of people don't | 08:15 |
| Utopiah | (Large Hadron Rap added to http://fabien.benetou.fr/Content/PiecesOfCulture#NerdMusic ) | 08:18 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: try also these: | 08:19 |
| kanzure | Bio Rad GTCA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bF2QalUj1Y | 08:19 |
| kanzure | Utopiah: http://thesoundsofscience.com/ | 08:20 |
| kanzure | aka "glory liu" | 08:21 |
| JayDugger | Good night, everyone. | 08:21 |
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| Utopiah | thanks, nice there is even an http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/07/sciencemusic/ | 08:21 |
| kanzure | john cumbers is pretty funny in this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUZD8sj5c4w | 08:33 |
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| kanzure | leaf pigment chromatography http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THqmpLdUaBA | 10:47 |
| kanzure | fitzsim: try now http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/refs/ | 11:05 |
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| fitzsim | Receiving objects: 100% (102101/102101), 401.13 MiB | 1.45 MiB/s, done. | 11:18 |
| fitzsim | ... | 11:18 |
| fitzsim | real5m32.791s | 11:18 |
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| kanzure | fitzsim: well? | 11:22 |
| kanzure | haha scripts to deal with cvs since otherwise it was too confusing http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/commit/?id=cc790e66c19422919aac3b15963dbe755670d576 | 11:31 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: examining the history with gitk --all | 11:37 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: looks like a huge improvement! | 11:37 |
| kanzure | can you post a screenshot of some interest segment from gitk? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | i haven't downloaded the git repo to my local box | 11:38 |
| kanzure | *some interesting segment | 11:39 |
| kanzure | hrm the first commits on 'master' are "Moved remotely" about 20 times | 11:42 |
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| kanzure | in the 'cad' branch commit 6102f7e37a5f3aed539e7ccc9352d8dc4a0d60fd (whatever tree that corresponds to) the README.txt file can be git-blame'd all the way back to 2005 commits | 12:14 |
| kanzure | but in branch master stuff can only be traced back to 2007-08-10 because of a "Moved remotely" commit :( | 12:15 |
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| kanzure | hi sseehh | 12:20 |
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| sseehh | hi kanzure | 12:21 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: this is looking really good so far | 12:26 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: try: git checkout remotes/origin/cad-ninad_20071211_selectMode_split | 12:26 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: I would expect "git diff" to output the diff between cad-ninad_20071211_selectMode_split HEAD and cad-ninad_20071211_selectMode_split HEAD's parent | 12:35 |
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| fitzsim | ah, there we go: git diff remotes/origin/cad-ninad_20071211_selectMode_split^..remotes/origin/cad-ninad_20071211_selectMode_split | 12:37 |
| fitzsim | so it looks like SVN "private branches" -- which are the file-subset branches we were seeing -- show up in this new git repo as branches with no branch point and no merge point | 12:39 |
| fitzsim | which is correct | 12:39 |
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| archels | sseehh: yo | 12:53 |
| sseehh | hi archels | 12:55 |
| archels | Hey, what's up? How's the housing arrangement? | 12:56 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: looks like it converted branches/wware_jni_nd1 correctly | 13:01 |
| kanzure | 2007-08-13 19:47 Mark Sims My first SVN commit. Testing only. Ignorable commit. | 13:04 |
| sseehh | archels: n2m staying /w friends | 13:06 |
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| kanzure | + | 13:07 |
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| archels | sseehh: alright | 13:08 |
| archels | Carlos there as well? | 13:08 |
| sseehh | archels: no carlos is in NYC | 13:08 |
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| archels | ah, I saw his latest video. | 13:09 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: looks like prior to August 10th, 2007 there were three separate directories, Distribution, cad and sim | 13:11 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: each with its own development line | 13:11 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: then on August 10th, 2007 Mark merged them all into one distribution on trunk | 13:11 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: and that's what all the "Moved remotely" messages are about | 13:12 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: you can see the movement of files | 13:12 |
| fitzsim | e.g.: Addition to trunk (master in git repo): | 13:14 |
| fitzsim | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/commit/?h=master&id=fdee9debedc807b3af5d3d3e8cbd780881fe8ee0 | 13:14 |
| kanzure | man, i'm having trouble keeping up with all of the activity at london-hack-space | 13:14 |
| kanzure | fitzsim: "all into one distribution" do you mean "one directory" | 13:15 |
| fitzsim | Removal from Distribution (origin/Distribution in git repo): | 13:17 |
| fitzsim | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/nanoengineer-fixed/commit/?h=Distribution&id=d7a2ecb79487035ac542e4fcaecf2e63a2e14714 | 13:17 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: yeah, one directory in the SVN repo | 13:18 |
| kanzure | hm the timestamps are exactly the same | 13:18 |
| fitzsim | yeah, it was probably an atomic operation in the SVN server | 13:19 |
| kanzure | nice find | 13:20 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: I'm using gitg to visualize the history | 13:24 |
| fitzsim | and if you scroll down, before 2007-08-10, you can clearly see the three lines of development: Distribution, sim and cad, with "Distribution-" tags pointing to the Distribution development line, and likewise for "sim-" tags, sim devel line and "cad-" tags, cad devel line | 13:26 |
| kanzure | scroll down where? | 13:28 |
| Utopiah | http://dot-p2p.org Peer-2-Peer exchanged DNS data (not filesharing) | 13:29 |
| kanzure | fitzsim: do you mean scroll down in gitg? | 13:35 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: yeah | 13:35 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: and in the Branch: drop down, select "All branches" | 13:36 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: the only thing I can't find is the branchpoint for wware_jni_nd1 | 13:40 |
| fitzsim | I'm guessing it was branched before the big merge | 13:40 |
| fitzsim | but then after the merge it seems to go in lock-step with master and then just ends at f5c6dfad798511fd689ed926fbe53e1f6fb68134 | 13:41 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: prior to the big merge all branches (Distribution-, cad-, and sim-) trace back to their initial independent revisions | 13:47 |
| kanzure | "initial independent revisions" what? shouldn't they trace back to trunk somewhere? | 13:48 |
| fitzsim | there were initally 3 separate directories in the SVN repo | 13:49 |
| fitzsim | Distribution, cad and sim | 13:49 |
| fitzsim | and people would commit to either Distribution, cad or sim | 13:49 |
| fitzsim | I think there were three separate trunks | 13:50 |
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| fitzsim | Distribution, cad and sim | 13:50 |
| fitzsim | or something -- this is where SVN's repo namespaces get confusing, because what's a directory, what's a version? | 13:50 |
| kanzure | well remember prior to 2007 it was cvs | 13:51 |
| fitzsim | ok, then there were 3 separate CVS repos | 13:52 |
| fitzsim | look right at the first commits | 13:52 |
| kanzure | are you sure they were separate repos? or just branches | 13:52 |
| fitzsim | I doubt they'd be branches in CVS since the filesets were mutually exclusive | 13:53 |
| fitzsim | but it's not that important | 13:53 |
| kanzure | you can have a branch that has a completely different set of files. | 13:54 |
| fitzsim | right, but then it doesn't make much sense as a branch, vs separate repos | 13:54 |
| fitzsim | if you look at the very first commits in gitk --all or gitg you can see three "Initial revision" messages, one for each of Distribution, cad and sim | 13:54 |
| kanzure | it makes sense as a branch if you want to keep the revision history for any of the files you're branching | 13:57 |
| kanzure | hmm | 13:58 |
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| kanzure | well anyway, it's fine keeping them as branches | 14:06 |
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| fitzsim | kanzure: the repo is fast now too | 14:10 |
| fitzsim | looks like the emails are all right too | 14:10 |
| fitzsim | they still point to @nanorex.com addresses, is that OK? | 14:11 |
| kanzure | yes it's what mark specified | 14:11 |
| kanzure | the nanorex.com email addresses are properly configured to point to latest email accounts | 14:12 |
| fitzsim | great | 14:12 |
| kanzure | the "Moved remotely" commits might be fixable | 14:12 |
| fitzsim | fixable how, I mean what would they look like fixed? | 14:13 |
| kanzure | there are multiple sets of multiple commits with the same timestamp and the "Moved remotely" commit message | 14:13 |
| kanzure | the fix would be something like editing those commits to make them branch merges or something | 14:13 |
| kanzure | fitzsim: if you want an example i suggest creating a dummy git repo and making branches/commits and merges out the gazoo | 14:14 |
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| fitzsim | kanzure: thing is, I don't think these "Moved remotely" messages are artifacts of the SVN to git conversion | 14:19 |
| fitzsim | I think they're a product of the CVS to SVN conversion | 14:21 |
| kanzure | cvs2svn always left commit messages identifying its handywork | 14:23 |
| kanzure | plus, cvs2svn used the "nobody" user- the "Moved remotely" messages seem to be mark sims | 14:23 |
| fitzsim | but those commits actually happened in the SVN repo | 14:35 |
| fitzsim | I agree it's annoying that they disrupt e.g. blame history, but they actually happened | 14:35 |
| fitzsim | plus it seems like opening a can of worms trying to find merge points | 14:36 |
| kanzure | finding merge points is easy: find two commits with different hashes, same commit messages, and the same timestamp | 14:36 |
| fitzsim | if you want though, we can try it out | 14:36 |
| kanzure | on different branches | 14:36 |
| kanzure | (that's an important one to add, heh) | 14:36 |
| fitzsim | :-) | 14:37 |
| fitzsim | yeah, ok, give it a try | 14:37 |
| fitzsim | the idea is that all the named branches are the ones that were never merged, right? | 14:37 |
| kanzure | i don't see how that is relevant | 14:38 |
| kanzure | when you merge in a branch that doesn't mean you delete it | 14:38 |
| fitzsim | because in git named branches go away when they're merged | 14:38 |
| fitzsim | I mean branch names | 14:38 |
| kanzure | no they don't | 14:38 |
| fitzsim | I wonder how you get gitk to show branch names on merged branches | 14:39 |
| kanzure | you mean "git merge xyz" (to merge xyz into your currently checked out branch)? that will not delete xyz | 14:39 |
| fitzsim | all it shows is the current heads as named branches | 14:39 |
| sseehh | wondering if there's potential connection between (automated) fab control software and http://www.ros.org/ Robot Operating System | 14:46 |
| kanzure | sseehh: what will you do if i say yes? | 14:46 |
| sseehh | ask for a link | 14:47 |
| QuantumG | sseehh: all the fab stuff I've seen has been in making parts.. no-one in that community assembles anything with robots yet. | 14:47 |
| kanzure | so do you know about emc2, fabuntu, unix, or are you just dicking with me | 14:47 |
| sseehh | im wondering if ROS has been used w/ any fab systems that arent necessarily robots | 14:48 |
| kanzure | i don't know about ROS specifically | 14:48 |
| sseehh | ill check out emc2 and fabuntu packages | 14:48 |
| kanzure | a lot of people just write their own code or use windows-specific proprietaryware | 14:48 |
| Utopiah | sseehh: like some "FactoryOS"? | 14:49 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: ok, the project I'm looking at must have a policy of deleting branch tags after the branch is merged | 14:53 |
| sseehh | basicaly i was wondering whether "robot" control systems like ROS have been or are used as fabricator control systems | 14:53 |
| kanzure | fitzsim: "the project I'm looking at" something other than nanoengineer? | 14:53 |
| kanzure | sseehh: how much do you know about industrial automation | 14:53 |
| kanzure | zilch, a lot, ? | 14:54 |
| sseehh | a little about CNC machines | 14:54 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: yeah, wanted to look at a standard git repo | 14:54 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: http://repo.or.cz/w/conkeror.git | 14:54 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: git branch -a lists 14 branches, but gitk --all shows many more that have been merged | 14:55 |
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| kanzure | fitzsim: try git branch -v and see if it prints out as many branches as you see in gitk --all | 15:01 |
| kanzure | fitzsim: also, gitk --all includes tags | 15:01 |
| kanzure | sseehh: yeah so there's a lot of automation stuff out there about machine vision, robotics, cnc, control, scada, etc. | 15:02 |
| fitzsim | kanzure: nope | 15:03 |
| QuantumG | good luck finding an affordable robotic arm that can do anything practical though | 15:03 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: is "doing some extraordinarily specific task in a manufacturing/assembly line" something practical? | 15:04 |
| QuantumG | yes, and finding a robotic arm that can do that and you can afford is probably not all that likely either. | 15:04 |
| QuantumG | but hey, maybe your budget is much bigger than mine | 15:05 |
| sseehh | kanzure: it seems that ROS is becoming a solid platform for robotics development. since there's a similarity between fab/CNC control and robotic manipulators i wondered about connections between the fields | 15:05 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: *shrug* it is http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/2010-05-28_puma500.jpg | 15:05 |
| kanzure | sseehh: i see. | 15:05 |
| QuantumG | I saw that the first time you posted it.. got it to do anything yet? :) | 15:05 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: i got it to move | 15:07 |
| kanzure | down the street. | 15:07 |
| QuantumG | to your house :) | 15:07 |
| kanzure | nah it's hopping facilities at the moment | 15:07 |
| QuantumG | power it up sometime.. I'm sure there's a PhD thesis or 10 you can crib to make it play chess | 15:08 |
| kanzure | no that's more like an undergrad project | 15:08 |
| QuantumG | or masters | 15:08 |
| QuantumG | can you detach that hand? | 15:09 |
| QuantumG | put a screw driver on it say? | 15:09 |
| kanzure | i'd have to make a custom fitting for the screw driver | 15:09 |
| kanzure | but yes the hand is attached on (not welded or anything silly) | 15:10 |
| QuantumG | be nice to see it take apart something and put it back together (now that's a fun vision project) | 15:10 |
| kanzure | hmm stuxnet person killed http://www.debka.com/article/20406/ | 15:13 |
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| fitzsim | kanzure: btw, how did you make the big improvements in the history import? | 15:46 |
| kanzure | svn-all-fast-export | 15:46 |
| kanzure | added a rule for processing trunk/cad/branches/* | 15:46 |
| kanzure | well trunk/(cad|sim|Distribution)/branches/* | 15:47 |
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| fitzsim | nice | 15:54 |
| fitzsim | ok, let me know when you're ready for me to test the "proper mergepoints" repo | 15:55 |
| kanzure | still working on it | 15:56 |
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| * ybit out | 16:05 | |
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| augur | bluetooth headphones! | 16:20 |
| augur | i feel like a cyborg d#_#b | 16:21 |
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| kanzure | http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/ray-kurzweils-slippery-futurism/0 | 18:39 |
| kanzure | commentary from peanut gallery: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/11/29/2113231 | 18:39 |
| kanzure | this sounds about right: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1888364&cid=34381072 | 18:44 |
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| fenn | lots of machinist ebooks http://www.terrificshare.com/ | 22:58 |
| fenn | hmm most of these have password protection | 23:04 |
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| fenn | bah it's some sort of russian scam, nevermind | 23:25 |
| fenn | well, most of them at least | 23:25 |
| QuantumG | yeah, looks like | 23:26 |
| * fenn mumbles something about worldcat and interlibrary loan | 23:44 | |
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| --- Log closed Tue Nov 30 00:00:07 2010 | ||
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