| --- Log opened Sat Jan 29 00:00:10 2011 | ||
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| kanzure | fenn: prusa is working on automated assembly instruction generation and has some "secret project" to release soon | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | i pointed prusa at http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/assembly-planning/ and old skdb code but whatever. | 00:09 |
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| fuzzy | hi all | 01:54 |
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| JayDugger | Not a bad presentation at H+ Caltech, kanzure. | 03:05 |
| JayDugger | Keep the unicorn. | 03:05 |
| JayDugger | It nicely identifies speculation and wishful thinking. | 03:05 |
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| Lukas___ | Good morning | 05:17 |
| JayDugger | Good morning, Lukas___ | 05:24 |
| Lukas___ | What's up? | 05:25 |
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| Lukas___ | I realize that 6 week vacations are terrible for the brain | 05:28 |
| Lukas___ | I am not sure of what does more damage, youtube, or boredom | 05:29 |
| ThomasEgi | youtube. when you'r bored, just stop beeign bored and be awesome instead;) | 05:32 |
| Lukas___ | All of my awesomeness was spent after two weeks. I am putting a lot of work into Biohack.me | 05:34 |
| ThomasEgi | hm. you arent in the biohack irc channel are you? | 05:36 |
| Lukas___ | nope ( I should actually get around to going there) | 05:36 |
| ThomasEgi | what exactly are you working on there?` | 05:38 |
| Lukas___ | I am doing some research on protein based immune suppressants (which is mostly independent), doing some advertising (youtube, facebook, etc.) for the most part. I want to catalog videos of our experiments JoVE style, if possible | 05:42 |
| Lukas___ | There is also a 'superpowers in the animal kingdom' topic on the forum, so once that gets some more entries I'll start compiling scientific documents on those phenotypes | 05:44 |
| ThomasEgi | immune suppressants sound extremly useful. | 05:49 |
| Lukas___ | yup | 05:50 |
| Lukas___ | There are variants of MHC found the fetus that prevents miscarriages - they look quite promising | 05:51 |
| Lukas___ | allowing tissues to exist that have half of your DNA in your body without fear of rejection is a big deal | 05:51 |
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| kanzure | meanwhile, on thingiverse they are working on... twitter integration | 06:27 |
| kanzure | http://blog.thingiverse.com/2011/01/28/twitter/ | 06:27 |
| kanzure | haa: http://www.thingiverse.com/api | 06:29 |
| Lukas___ | heh, nifty | 06:29 |
| kanzure | no it's not nifty.. it's pathetic | 06:31 |
| kanzure | that's why i was laughing | 06:31 |
| Lukas___ | -___- | 06:32 |
| Lukas___ | I blame boredom | 06:33 |
| Lukas___ | it tends to leads to such projects (though I have no objection to it) | 06:33 |
| kanzure | most apis on websites are more robust | 06:34 |
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| kanzure | video about personal manufacturing | 06:37 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/2-dominic-muren-part-1-dorkbot-seattle-feb-3-2010 | 06:37 |
| kanzure | part 2: http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/3-dominic-part-2-dorkbot-seattle-feb-3-2010 | 06:37 |
| kanzure | added my caltech talk: http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/bryan-bishop-at-humanity-caltech-personal-manufacturing-and-the-gada-prize | 06:38 |
| Lukas___ | xD | 06:43 |
| Lukas___ | pink unicorn? | 06:43 |
| kanzure | from the future | 06:43 |
| Lukas___ | ah :D | 06:46 |
| Lukas___ | Your first unicorn looks like it could take down Imperial Star Destroyers | 06:47 |
| kanzure | hell yeah | 06:52 |
| kanzure | 3d printing "piracy" http://i.materialise.com/blog/entry/3d-printing-piracy-3d-printing-the-settlers-of-catan | 06:52 |
| Lukas___ | D: | 06:54 |
| kanzure | it's not really piracy though.. i don't know why people call it that (probably for shock value) | 06:55 |
| kanzure | and who /doesn't/ want to be a pirate? | 06:55 |
| Lukas___ | I think we are in for a very interesting future concerning patents and hardware | 06:57 |
| Lukas___ | and everyday items | 06:57 |
| kanzure | Effective immediately, I am invalidating all patents. | 06:58 |
| kanzure | i can do this, right? | 06:58 |
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| kanzure | hi thesnark | 07:01 |
| thesnark | hey kanzure | 07:01 |
| kanzure | my talk from last december is now up: http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/bryan-bishop-at-humanity-caltech-personal-manufacturing-and-the-gada-prize | 07:01 |
| thesnark | 16 min? I'll watch now. | 07:01 |
| kanzure | also on facebook if anyone cares http://www.facebook.com/kanzure/posts/160044864046859 | 07:01 |
| thesnark | lol facebook | 07:01 |
| thesnark | does anybody care about facebook? | 07:01 |
| thesnark | that was redundant | 07:02 |
| thesnark | sry | 07:02 |
| kanzure | i can't answer that question | 07:02 |
| kanzure | i think someone /might/ | 07:02 |
| Lukas___ | Facebook has it's uses | 07:03 |
| Lukas___ | its* | 07:03 |
| Utopiah | :/ The Dark Side of Creativity http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item2705195/ | 07:03 |
| kanzure | the dark side.. like.. disney? | 07:03 |
| thesnark | I love being a uni student...four copies of that book in our library system =) | 07:04 |
| thesnark | None checked out surprise surprise | 07:04 |
| thesnark | I stand corrected 8 copies | 07:05 |
| thesnark | </rant> I will try not be so talkative, I just had coffee | 07:05 |
| Utopiah | dark side as in learn to enjoy and trust the system in place I guess | 07:06 |
| kanzure | thesnark: around here, coffee is a lesser sin when it comes to stimulants | 07:07 |
| thesnark | kanzure haha, are you talking about hipsters or do you do speed? =P | 07:07 |
| kanzure | speed... a minor variant thereof | 07:08 |
| thesnark | Oh, you've got me interested now | 07:08 |
| thesnark | GO | 07:08 |
| thesnark | Go on... | 07:08 |
| kanzure | just adderall, nothing exciting | 07:10 |
| Utopiah | (nice pun) | 07:11 |
| thesnark | nice! I've never used that | 07:11 |
| thesnark | haha yes indeed | 07:11 |
| Lukas___ | I really, really like Patri's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qPfonFbFrW0 | 07:14 |
| kanzure | http://www.reprap.org/pub/Main/DocumentationMain/Thesis-EdSells-TowardsaSelf-ManufacturingRapidPrototypingMachine.pdf | 07:32 |
| Lukas___ | Oops! This link appears to be broken. | 07:34 |
| thesnark | "When little jimmy invents something you tell him to go get a patent" haha | 07:41 |
| kanzure | well you do | 07:41 |
| thesnark | I know | 07:41 |
| Lukas___ | But they are expensive | 07:45 |
| Lukas___ | :( | 07:45 |
| JayDugger | What's the rainbow unicorn's name? | 07:46 |
| kanzure | i dunno. | 07:46 |
| kanzure | ray kurzweil? | 07:46 |
| JayDugger | Now, now... :) | 07:46 |
| Lukas___ | XD | 07:47 |
| Lukas___ | Tardis? | 07:48 |
| JayDugger | http://www.reprap.org/mediawiki/images/3/31/DocumentationMain-Thesis-EdSells-TowardsaSelf-ManufacturingRapidPrototypingMachine.pdf | 07:48 |
| JayDugger | For your next presentation, I suggest a few slides with Ray the Rainbow Unicorn fighting Gnusha. | 07:52 |
| Lukas___ | XD | 07:52 |
| Lukas___ | Win | 07:52 |
| kanzure | i was trying to make outlandish ridiculous predictions but some of them are actually accurate :( | 07:53 |
| kanzure | "In 2016, we'll have $1 genome sequencing, and in 2021 we'll have whole brain emulation" <-- not that ridiculous.. | 07:53 |
| JayDugger | Heh, heh... | 07:53 |
| JayDugger | I wonder if his early book, "The Age of Intelligent Machines," had predictions of any greater accuracy? | 07:54 |
| kanzure | JayDugger: http://c0068172.cdn2.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/predictions.pdf | 07:55 |
| kanzure | or http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2036575 | 07:56 |
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| AlonzoTG | om | 08:28 |
| kanzure | yet another awful forum http://www.pearlbiotech.com/diybio/index.php | 08:44 |
| * ThomasEgi sees tons of spam-account-users? | 08:51 | |
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| kanzure | ThomasEgi: probably just xrumer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XRumer | 08:53 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, is it only piracy when the creators complain? | 08:54 |
| kanzure | i don't think it's piracy at all | 08:54 |
| kanzure | what exactly are we pillaging and/or raping? | 08:55 |
| joshcryer | What exactly are people who download video games pillaging and/or raping? I take it you're using a more historical term as opposed to the word as it has changed to become in this context. | 08:55 |
| kanzure | i'm perfectly happy downloading video games | 08:56 |
| kanzure | you sound like a salesman for the USPTO | 08:56 |
| ThomasEgi | kanzure, the panda3d.org forum has a neat way to defeat automated spammers. | 08:56 |
| ThomasEgi | on registration you'r presented with a bunch of pictures. and you have to mark the ones which shows a panda | 08:56 |
| joshcryer | I just downloaded Dead Space 2, don't tell me where I stand on infringement. :P | 08:56 |
| kanzure | amazon mechanical turk can easily beat that | 08:56 |
| joshcryer | Anyway I think if Klaus Teuber sent out a cease and desist to Thingieverse things could get *really* interesting. | 08:57 |
| joshcryer | I don't know exactly on what grounds though since this is, imho, something that we haven't had happen yet. | 08:57 |
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| joshcryer | I don't see it happening here because board game enthusasists are not typically the types to be anti-sharing. | 08:59 |
| joshcryer | Is this the first time we've had direct functionality copying from a commercial product? There are probably earlier examples. I wait patiently for the day when we have examples happening every day. | 09:02 |
| kanzure | http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2154706 | 09:03 |
| kanzure | http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/28/yuri-milner-sv-angel-offer-every-new-y-combinator-startup-150k/ | 09:03 |
| kanzure | haha wtf. | 09:03 |
| Utopiah | o_0 | 09:07 |
| klafka_ | wow | 09:17 |
| klafka_ | well i guess when you think about it | 09:17 |
| klafka_ | that's not really a lot of money | 09:17 |
| klafka_ | 7 million is peanuts to some people, sow many seeds and see which bears fruit | 09:17 |
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| klafka_ | is there a list of y combinator startups? | 09:18 |
| kanzure | there's like 300 of them | 09:20 |
| kanzure | oops. 200 | 09:20 |
| kanzure | http://yclist.com/ | 09:20 |
| joshcryer | Give me 150k and I think I could make an auxon. | 09:21 |
| klafka_ | oh i thought they said 40 | 09:21 |
| klafka_ | or i guess 40 this year | 09:21 |
| joshcryer | ok I'm skimming this list and so far it's meh. | 09:22 |
| joshcryer | heh | 09:22 |
| joshcryer | the names. | 09:22 |
| joshcryer | they burn my eyes. | 09:22 |
| klafka_ | heroku is valued at 212million | 09:23 |
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| kanzure | yes- salesforce bought them | 09:24 |
| klafka_ | damn | 09:24 |
| klafka_ | i do have to agree with joshcryer on the names by and lareg | 09:24 |
| klafka_ | large | 09:24 |
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| klafka_ | oh wepay is a yc startup | 09:25 |
| klafka_ | heh i wish there was someone to displace paypal | 09:26 |
| klafka_ | it looks like a lot of the newer ones are taking basic tasks like transcoding video and moving them into SaaS | 09:26 |
| joshcryer | there was one open source currency thing I saw | 09:27 |
| joshcryer | trying to pin monetary value on CPU cycles used | 09:27 |
| klafka_ | http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/22/techcrunch50-visualizing-real-time-social-structures/ this is pretty interesting stuff | 09:28 |
| klafka_ | I must say | 09:28 |
| kanzure | klafka_: did you previously know about techcrunch.com or ycombinator? | 09:28 |
| klafka_ | i have known about both | 09:28 |
| klafka_ | for forever | 09:28 |
| klafka_ | i just never really looked through who was a yc startup | 09:28 |
| kanzure | ah. ok. | 09:29 |
| klafka_ | and i don't like read techcrunch religiously | 09:29 |
| kanzure | me either | 09:29 |
| klafka_ | my interest in internet startups is really kind of minor honestly | 09:29 |
| klafka_ | i'm basically procrastinating writing this survey paper | 09:29 |
| kanzure | i'll write it for you for $50000000 | 09:29 |
| klafka_ | how about $50 | 09:29 |
| kanzure | hrmm maybe | 09:29 |
| klafka_ | on a log scale i'm not asking for much of a difference in prie | 09:29 |
| klafka_ | price | 09:29 |
| kanzure | heh | 09:29 |
| klafka_ | i wonder if after i get my degree if i don't get a faculty position i'll have to take a job at some new cloud web 3.0 startup doing algorithm development on how to recommend the proper tooth brushes to people or something | 09:30 |
| archels | rofl | 09:31 |
| kanzure | klafka_: that's already a yc company http://directededge.com/ | 09:32 |
| klafka_ | i'll be building new methods for regularizers/priors based off our knowledge on genetic drift and bristle stiffness | 09:32 |
| klafka_ | HAHAHA | 09:33 |
| klafka_ | i suppose it's lucky almost all my research transfers as immediately potentially relevant to NLP | 09:33 |
| klafka_ | which seems to be probably the most bankable part of ML atm | 09:33 |
| kanzure | klafka_: while you're pocrastinating you can watch my talk from caltech on personal manufacturing and open source hardware | 09:34 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us:9000/s/bryan-bishop-at-humanity-caltech-personal-manufacturing-and-the-gada-prize | 09:34 |
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| klafka_ | sure | 09:36 |
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| delinquentme | morning all! | 09:39 |
| delinquentme | compiling my own software ... | 09:39 |
| klafka_ | hi | 09:39 |
| delinquentme | would this make it specifically for my x64 architecture? | 09:40 |
| kanzure | i thought you have to pass a -j64 or something flag | 09:40 |
| kanzure | oh, -m64 | 09:41 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, what compiler do you use? | 09:41 |
| delinquentme | i think i d/led one the other day called "ant" | 09:41 |
| kanzure | g++ | 09:41 |
| kanzure | gcc | 09:41 |
| klafka_ | i assume no one has won the gada prize yet eh kanzure ? | 09:43 |
| klafka_ | or got close to it? | 09:43 |
| kanzure | there might be people close to it but they are probably waiting | 09:43 |
| klafka_ | for? | 09:43 |
| klafka_ | till they are totally done | 09:43 |
| kanzure | because they don't want anyone to do better before the end of 2012 / end of 2015 | 09:43 |
| klafka_ | aah | 09:43 |
| kanzure | which kinda sucks.. that's breeding conspiracy and secrecy in the reprap community | 09:43 |
| klafka_ | yeah | 09:44 |
| kanzure | so i'm trying to fix that for the grand prize | 09:44 |
| klafka_ | are they being quiet because of the gada prize? | 09:44 |
| kanzure | the gada prize teams? yeah i think so | 09:44 |
| klafka_ | are you involved in running the gada prize? | 09:44 |
| kanzure | yes | 09:44 |
| kanzure | http://gadaprize.org/ is me.. | 09:44 |
| klafka_ | aah i see | 09:44 |
| klafka_ | ah nice | 09:44 |
| klafka_ | oh do you run that foundation | 09:44 |
| kanzure | sorta. i'm "director of r&d" | 09:44 |
| klafka_ | aah | 09:44 |
| klafka_ | nice | 09:44 |
| kanzure | so my plan for fixing the $80k grand prize | 09:45 |
| kanzure | is to demand everyone publishes their schematics | 09:45 |
| klafka_ | good | 09:45 |
| kanzure | as open source. if they are worried about getting scooped, | 09:45 |
| kanzure | they can say "no derivative entries in the competition" | 09:45 |
| kanzure | and our judges will honor that. | 09:45 |
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| klafka_ | also glow in the dark yogurt would probably sell hella well | 09:45 |
| kanzure | yeah the diybio crowd (or subset) is going after that | 09:46 |
| klafka_ | lol | 09:46 |
| klafka_ | honestly i think diybio is inherently totally limited until sequencing is cheap enough for a person to do | 09:46 |
| kanzure | so.. four years? :) | 09:46 |
| Lukas___ | agreed | 09:46 |
| kanzure | there's about 25 companies going after next-generation whole genome sequencing | 09:47 |
| klafka_ | longer than 4 years | 09:47 |
| kanzure | the $1000, $100 genome etc. | 09:47 |
| kanzure | nah it's dropping very fast | 09:47 |
| klafka_ | maybe 10 years | 09:47 |
| klafka_ | i know | 09:47 |
| klafka_ | helicos, pacbio, i think ibm ? | 09:47 |
| kanzure | tons more.. | 09:47 |
| klafka_ | but what you need is the people that start to make smaller faster ones | 09:47 |
| kanzure | see here: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/browse_thread/thread/6115f6814f4ec32d | 09:47 |
| klafka_ | oh oxford yeah | 09:48 |
| kanzure | 454, affymetrix, abi, aqi, bionanomatrix, callida, genovoxx, lasergen, oxford nanopore tech, seirad, zs genetics, .. | 09:48 |
| kanzure | yeah but iirc there's more than just the oxford group doing nanopore stuff | 09:48 |
| klafka_ | well i'm specifically referring to single molecule sequencing | 09:48 |
| klafka_ | e.g. 3rd gen sequencing | 09:48 |
| kanzure | oh does 3rd-gen only refer to single molecule techniques? | 09:49 |
| klafka_ | well obviously these are completely arbitrary labels | 09:49 |
| klafka_ | but i think a lot of people would agree with that definition | 09:49 |
| kanzure | yeah but i mean, popularly | 09:49 |
| kanzure | ok | 09:49 |
| kanzure | i want to do next-generation DNA synthesis | 09:49 |
| kanzure | but i'd need some money to pursue my research plans :/ | 09:49 |
| klafka_ | yeah | 09:49 |
| klafka_ | man also i can't get my freaking hackerspace to do anything fun | 09:50 |
| kanzure | all this readin' ain't worth squat if you can't write cheaply.. writing should be cheaper than reading but it's not :( | 09:50 |
| kanzure | klafka_: which hackerspace? | 09:50 |
| klafka_ | interlock | 09:50 |
| kanzure | hrm rochester | 09:50 |
| klafka_ | that's where i'm at | 09:50 |
| kanzure | oh man looks like they have industrial equipment | 09:51 |
| kanzure | oh. the pics are them visiting laser cuttery | 09:51 |
| klafka_ | haha yeah no they don't have industrial equipment | 09:51 |
| klafka_ | they have talked about getting a CNC machine | 09:51 |
| kanzure | i <3 the rotating gear as you scroll http://interlockroc.org/ | 09:51 |
| kanzure | yeah, so getting hackerspaces to participate in all this "next-generation coolness" is a tricky issue | 09:51 |
| kanzure | noisebridge was resisting diybio stuff for a lonng time | 09:51 |
| klafka_ | i'm not even trying to get them to do diybio | 09:52 |
| kanzure | so the san francisco guys just decided to do biocurious http://biocurious.org/ | 09:52 |
| klafka_ | like i've mentioned say gifting 1000 3mm leds to them to build creative things with that i would showcase at a music event | 09:52 |
| klafka_ | i think that's a good idea don't you? | 09:52 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, nice unobtrusive touch to that page (the rotating gear). Wouldn't have even noticed it if you didn't point it out. | 09:53 |
| kanzure | klafka_: sure. i guess. | 09:53 |
| klafka_ | my interfacing with hackerspaces is more on the range of fusing tech with art as opposed to next gen shit, since i'm currently part of the monolith of academia i get a lot of next gen fix there | 09:53 |
| klafka_ | or next gen shit with art | 09:54 |
| kanzure | i see. well, i'd like to see more permissive hackerspaces interested in getting in on the cutting edge | 09:54 |
| kanzure | when it comes to open source hardware like reprap, many hackerspaces are on board, so that's good | 09:54 |
| klafka_ | i doa agree with that | 09:54 |
| klafka_ | *agree | 09:54 |
| klafka_ | i mean i basically just think until like you said, we hvae cheap r/w tech for DNA/RNA diybio won't really take off | 09:55 |
| klafka_ | man i actually don't know how people build dna like for primers and shit from scratch | 09:56 |
| kanzure | oligonucleotide synthesis | 09:56 |
| kanzure | do you want to know? | 09:56 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/phosphoramidites/ | 09:56 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/DNA/ | 09:56 |
| kanzure | A short history of oligonucleotide synthesis (up to 2006) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/DNA/A%20short%20history%20of%20oligonucleotide%20synthesis%20-%202006.pdf | 09:56 |
| kanzure | Another review - 50 years of chemical synthesis http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/DNA/Oligo-%20and%20poly-nucleotides%20-%2050%20years%20of%20chemical%20synthesis%20-%202005.pdf | 09:57 |
| kanzure | Syringe method for stepwise chemical synthesis of oligonucleotides http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/Syringe%20method%20for%20stepwise%20chemical%20synthesis%20of%20oligonucleotides.pdf | 09:58 |
| kanzure | that last one is the long and boring "do it by hand" method | 09:58 |
| kanzure | these days people also do this on microarrays to build up millions of wells with oligos | 09:58 |
| kanzure | stopping at 60bp because the error rate / yield rate is kinda funky.. | 09:59 |
| kanzure | so for anything more than 60 bp, as you know, people just ligate stuff together | 09:59 |
| klafka_ | mmm yeah | 10:00 |
| klafka_ | so basically they have non reactive nucleosides, then they react them somehow to make them reactive hoping they bind to the end and not branch | 10:01 |
| kanzure | branching isn't so much of a problem | 10:01 |
| kanzure | but yeah the process is basically to lay down a new phosphoramidite (ddNTP), cap it, wash, uncap, attach next, .. | 10:01 |
| kanzure | or something like that | 10:01 |
| kanzure | that's my "bryan is very sick today" recollection of the process | 10:01 |
| joshcryer | klafka_, s'why I'm more interested in DYI replicators / auxons / maker machines. | 10:01 |
| klafka_ | you know what would be cool, if you could get a dummy strand, like something that has no meaning you could cheaply build up that would allow for the attachment of any nucleotide to it | 10:02 |
| joshcryer | klafka_, 'cause you can use them to make labs for DIY bio. | 10:02 |
| klafka_ | then use SMRT and coordinate what nucleotides you feed it | 10:02 |
| kanzure | smrt? | 10:02 |
| klafka_ | single nucleotide real time sequencing | 10:02 |
| kanzure | wait that exists? | 10:02 |
| klafka_ | that's what pac bio does | 10:02 |
| klafka_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Molecule_Real_Time_Sequencing | 10:03 |
| kanzure | that's single molecule oligonucleotide | 10:03 |
| kanzure | not single nucleotide | 10:03 |
| kanzure | single nucleotide would mean 1 bp molecule floating around :P | 10:03 |
| klafka_ | it's referring to the fact that it adds one nucleotide at a time | 10:04 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm too sick today for this, i'm sorry | 10:05 |
| klafka_ | lol ok | 10:05 |
| kanzure | you're right, that's what pacbio does | 10:05 |
| klafka_ | i'm pretty sure if someone could develop a dummy template this would probably be a pretty sweet method | 10:05 |
| klafka_ | i honestly would be very surprised if someone like pac bio isn't workin on it right now actually | 10:05 |
| klafka_ | those guys are really ahead of the curve | 10:05 |
| klafka_ | really really | 10:06 |
| klafka_ | man i hope these are big datasets | 10:07 |
| klafka_ | http://www.heritagehealthprize.com/competition.php | 10:07 |
| kanzure | huh i thought i had the pacbio ZMW paper somewhere in my archive | 10:08 |
| klafka_ | i kinda wouldn't mind working there, their CSO seems pretty fucking brilliant | 10:08 |
| klafka_ | eric schadt | 10:08 |
| kanzure | Real-time DNA sequencing from single polymerase molecules http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/polymerase/Real-time%20DNA%20sequencing%20from%20single%20polymerase%20molecules%20-%202009.pdf | 10:08 |
| kanzure | there we go | 10:08 |
| kanzure | klafka_: halcyon molecular has been hiring up tons of transhumanists from the community. it's kinda funny. | 10:09 |
| klafka_ | really? | 10:09 |
| klafka_ | in what capacity? | 10:09 |
| kanzure | all sorts of positions | 10:09 |
| kanzure | randal koene, for instance | 10:09 |
| klafka_ | hardware or software? | 10:09 |
| klafka_ | ah i see | 10:09 |
| kanzure | both | 10:09 |
| kanzure | randal used to work on the mind uploading research group back in the 90s | 10:10 |
| kanzure | they were building an apparatus to scan and upload a nematode brain | 10:10 |
| kanzure | i think he also contributed to the whole brain emulation roadmap but i forget. | 10:10 |
| klafka_ | oh randal is a neurmorphic dude | 10:10 |
| kanzure | this interview with halcyon's andregg brothers was kind of ridiculous http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/12/interview-of-gene-sequencing-expert.html | 10:10 |
| klafka_ | or seems like it | 10:10 |
| klafka_ | my advisor knows a whole bunch of neuromorphic engineering guys | 10:11 |
| kanzure | cool. | 10:11 |
| klafka_ | that + memristor may make some really really cool shit happen | 10:11 |
| klafka_ | are you up on memristors shit kanzure ? | 10:11 |
| kanzure | somewhat. we have some super memristor fanboys in here though | 10:11 |
| klafka_ | haha | 10:11 |
| klafka_ | a friend of mine is one | 10:12 |
| klafka_ | he's a CE person | 10:12 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: ping? | 10:12 |
| klafka_ | i don't hae the background to really get it | 10:12 |
| joshcryer | pong | 10:12 |
| klafka_ | i mean at a meaningful technical level | 10:12 |
| joshcryer | klafka, memristors are going to change everything! | 10:12 |
| klafka_ | i agree | 10:12 |
| * joshcryer makes a Hackers quote that no one catches | 10:12 | |
| klafka_ | risc | 10:13 |
| klafka_ | etc.. | 10:13 |
| joshcryer | Did you see the moneta stuff? | 10:13 |
| joshcryer | http://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/artificial-intelligence/moneta-a-mind-made-from-memristors | 10:13 |
| kanzure | klafka_: am i successfully making your procrastination worthwhile? | 10:13 |
| klafka_ | ah | 10:13 |
| klafka_ | i guess kanzure though i really have to write this paper, it was due last quarter | 10:13 |
| joshcryer | http://www.youtube.com/user/maxversace1972 | 10:14 |
| joshcryer | This guy has videos about moneta-stuff. | 10:14 |
| klafka_ | yeah i did see this joshcryer though not this article, it seems a lot like what the analog vlsi people are trying to do in neuromorphic engineering stuff | 10:14 |
| klafka_ | isn't it? | 10:14 |
| klafka_ | i mean they all seem to be sort of related somehow | 10:15 |
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| kanzure | analog vlsi? who are those people? | 10:15 |
| klafka_ | i keep wondering how memristors are going to change ML | 10:15 |
| klafka_ | or programming in general | 10:15 |
| klafka_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_Mead | 10:16 |
| joshcryer | klafka_, synapse computing is effectively analog computing but yeah, I wouldn't be shocked to see overlap. | 10:16 |
| * joshcryer watches Bryan Bishop's talk | 10:19 | |
| klafka_ | i sort of wonder if memristors will be the thing that makes HP relevant again | 10:22 |
| joshcryer | $350 reprap is a bit low imho. | 10:24 |
| joshcryer | But maybe if you knew the right people. | 10:24 |
| kanzure | depends on what you already have, where you live, how vigilant you are :P | 10:26 |
| kanzure | but it's definitely not $2000+ | 10:26 |
| kanzure | people spend more on gardens.. heh plastic figuirine gardens | 10:26 |
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| joshcryer | kanzure, heh, I am loving the dirty commie anti-patent/copyright language here. | 10:27 |
| joshcryer | And you don't come off as crazy like, uh, Stallman (who is a niche now anyway, haven't heard crap abut him in ages). | 10:27 |
| kanzure | next time i'll wear an eyepatch for you | 10:27 |
| kanzure | if i'm not coming off as crazy i'm not doing my job | 10:28 |
| klafka_ | lol | 10:28 |
| klafka_ | maybe eat something off your foot | 10:28 |
| kanzure | most of the things i'm saying we all already agree on | 10:28 |
| klafka_ | that's how you get to stallman crazy | 10:28 |
| kanzure | the only people who don't agree are the people who are clueless and will likely remain so | 10:28 |
| joshcryer | True, you don't come off as crazy because I'm equally crazy. | 10:28 |
| klafka_ | or the rich people who are rich due to the status quo kanzure | 10:28 |
| kanzure | "We should nuke the USPTO" <-- perhaps this isn't even crazy enough | 10:28 |
| joshcryer | USPTO is irrelevant. | 10:28 |
| kanzure | haha we should have someone bomb the USPTO | 10:29 |
| joshcryer | USPTO is not one single thing or place or whatever. | 10:29 |
| joshcryer | Domestic terrorism wouldn't affect it. | 10:29 |
| joshcryer | Props for multimachine shot. | 10:30 |
| eridu | Stallman is hardly niche, or crazy. if anything he's one of the few sane people alive. | 10:30 |
| joshcryer | eridu, as far as speaking is concerned I like Moglen better. | 10:31 |
| eridu | does moglen do anything more than restate Stallman's ideas? | 10:31 |
| joshcryer | eridu, yes, he does it better. | 10:31 |
| kanzure | fenn: Circadian clocks in human red blood cells http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers/bio/Circadian%20clocks%20in%20human%20red%20blood%20cells%20-%202011.pdf | 10:32 |
| kanzure | abstract: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v469/n7331/full/nature09702.html | 10:32 |
| kanzure | "Using red blood cells, we found that peroxiredoxins, highly conserved antioxidant proteins, undergo ~24-hour redox cycles, which persist for many days under constant conditions (that is, in the absence of external cues)." | 10:32 |
| kanzure | "Moreover, these rhythms are entrainable (that is, tunable by environmental stimuli) and temperature-compensated, both key features of circadian rhythms." | 10:32 |
| eridu | I've only ever heard half-originalities from Moglen, capitalizing off the fact that Stallman and the FSF are very slow to comment about things they don't consider themselves as understanding fully | 10:32 |
| kanzure | eridu: i agree with you about stallman, but for some reason there's this recent anti-stallman campaign going on (wtf) | 10:33 |
| eridu | we're at a critical point in time, I think | 10:33 |
| eridu | we can either go the facebook/apple route, or the Stallman route | 10:34 |
| klafka_ | we're probably going facebook/apple route | 10:34 |
| kanzure | html5 webapps are going to disrupt the apple app ecosystem | 10:34 |
| eridu | as such it's critical for people who oppose freedom to start attacking the people that make up liberatory social movements | 10:34 |
| eridu | webapps are part of the problem | 10:34 |
| kanzure | but it's still a far cry from the internet a few years ago.. | 10:35 |
| joshcryer | I hope so. | 10:35 |
| eridu | centralized computing is the problem | 10:35 |
| joshcryer | Personally I believe http should die. | 10:35 |
| joshcryer | eridu, indeed! | 10:35 |
| kanzure | elevenarms was talking with me a few days ago, | 10:35 |
| kanzure | and was saying that this is the first time where he's felt that he can't accurately predict the future of the web really | 10:35 |
| kanzure | that something big is about to happen but we're not sure what. | 10:35 |
| kanzure | things are much more siloed these days | 10:35 |
| kanzure | and there's this feeling of not knowing what's going on- to a greater extent than before | 10:35 |
| joshcryer | I think in part why Diaspora is a failure is that it's trying to hack decentralization on top of a layer that is inherently centralized. | 10:36 |
| kanzure | diaspora sucks because of execution; tons of people run federated jabber servers | 10:36 |
| klafka_ | i think it inherently really failed because it was a not well thought out execution | 10:36 |
| klafka_ | it was also done by people who didn't seem to have the chops to do it properly | 10:36 |
| kanzure | google wave could have been interesting on that front but they focused on ui and didn't tie in gmail | 10:36 |
| klafka_ | or choose the proper way to do it | 10:36 |
| klafka_ | agreed kanzure | 10:36 |
| eridu | diaspora sucks because it utterly abandoned any privacy-enhancing aspect | 10:37 |
| klafka_ | google wave i hope finds some new freedom in its OSS model | 10:37 |
| klafka_ | i hope wave sneaks into a lot more things now | 10:37 |
| joshcryer | I think the best route is a web of trust freenet type system. | 10:37 |
| klafka_ | i know that people in anonymous involved in operation egypt and stuff are working on those sorts of things | 10:37 |
| uniqanomaly__ | also ps3, a.k.a. you can't do whatever you want with something you own -_- | 10:37 |
| joshcryer | Hack it on top of kad mellia dht. | 10:38 |
| joshcryer | The pirates would be annoyed but it'd help in the end. | 10:38 |
| joshcryer | Kademlia / DHT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table | 10:39 |
| kanzure | fenn: peroxiredoxin rhythms seem to be temperature related.. in partiular PRX2 (based on measuring PRX-SO_2/3) | 10:40 |
| joshcryer | I'll file it in a list of thigns to get around to if no one else does. | 10:41 |
| kanzure | fenn: a lot of this seems to be very DIYable | 10:41 |
| * joshcryer house-cleans | 10:41 | |
| kanzure | red blood cell cultures shouldn't be too hard right? draw some blood and use an incubator and oxygenator? | 10:41 |
| jebba | there's http://www.netsukuku.org which looked cool, but seems to have stalled pretty hard.. | 10:41 |
| joshcryer | jebba, thanks, appears to be a reasonable implementation. | 10:44 |
| joshcryer | jebba, I'm not sure what they mean by DNS with ANDNA, will have to persue it further. DNS should die, but they are implying that maybe with the distributed nature of it. | 10:45 |
| jebba | joshcryer: yes, it is a distributed DNS system, so no central authority to grant/deny perms | 11:26 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: can you check my .htaccess file? | 13:38 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/hplusmagazine-htaccess | 13:38 |
| kanzure | why do none of the rewrite rules work? | 13:38 |
| kanzure | actually, the wordpress-generated rules work, but my manually generated rules do not | 13:39 |
| kanzure | fixed :) i forgot that the RewriteCond lines are catch-alls | 13:46 |
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| kanzure | fenn: sens.org has a new mountain view research lab .. they are having open house on feb 6 | 13:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=149141831808337 | 13:51 |
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| Lukas___ | Hullo | 14:02 |
| kanzure | nanofog.org is available | 14:04 |
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| jrayhawk | why are you using an .htaccess file | 14:10 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: the server is weird and i'll consolidate apache config later | 14:10 |
| jrayhawk | Okay. Just keep in mind that overrides are likely to become a performance issue at some point. | 14:11 |
| jrayhawk | wjat | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | What's wrong with DNS? | 14:16 |
| kanzure | someone nuke a root server? | 14:17 |
| jrayhawk | there are a shitload of root servers. | 14:18 |
| jrayhawk | Probably close to a hundred in the united states alone. | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | There are a few problems with DNS-as-it-is-currently-deployed, but they are not problems with DNS-as-it-is-specified. | 14:22 |
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| joshcryer | Are we speaking philosophically? | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | If you want to. | 14:22 |
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| joshcryer | DNS places identity before trust, rather than trust before identity. I have a problem with that. :P | 14:25 |
| kanzure | it's really confusing that both marcus wohlsen and marcus wolschen are in these communities | 14:25 |
| joshcryer | Who is more trustworthy? | 14:26 |
| joshcryer | You can delete the other one from existance1 | 14:26 |
| kanzure | http://www.gearfuse.com/taste-of-tech-biohacking-the-future/ | 14:32 |
| kanzure | eh? "Earlier this week, Popular Science published a step-by-step guide to building genetically modified seeds." | 14:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/life-cycle-genetically-modified-seed | 14:32 |
| joshcryer | "A .22-caliber charge fires a metal particle coated with DNA into plant tissue. Monsanto no longer uses the technique, but it's still widely used among other biotech companies." | 14:36 |
| joshcryer | That is hilarious. | 14:36 |
| joshcryer | If only we could convince the off the grid types who grow their own food and whatnot that GMO != evil, they could be doing this. | 14:38 |
| kanzure | they aren't called "gene guns" for nothing.. | 14:39 |
| kanzure | updated: http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ#Has_DIYbio_been_in_the_news.3F | 14:39 |
| joshcryer | kanzure-aggregator | 14:40 |
| joshcryer | That should be your new nick. | 14:40 |
| kanzure | the future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed | 14:45 |
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| kanzure | journal of universal rejection http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/ | 15:03 |
| kanzure | "The founding principle of the Journal of Universal Rejection (JofUR) is rejection. Universal rejection. That is to say, all submissions, regardless of quality, will be rejected. Despite that apparent drawback, here are a number of reasons you may choose to submit to the JofUR:" | 15:03 |
| kanzure | " # You can send your manuscript here without suffering waves of anxiety regarding the eventual fate of your submission. You know with 100% certainty that it will not be accepted for publication. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | # There are no page-fees. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | # You may claim to have submitted to the most prestigious journal (judged by acceptance rate). | 15:03 |
| kanzure | # The JofUR is one-of-a-kind. Merely submitting work to it may be considered a badge of honor. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | # You retain complete rights to your work, and are free to resubmit to other journals even before our review process is complete. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | # Decisions are often (though not always) rendered within hours of submission. | 15:03 |
| kanzure | " | 15:03 |
| Lukas___ | XD | 15:05 |
| kanzure | http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/no-retractions-necessary-an-interview-with-the-editor-of-the-journal-of-universal-rejections/ | 15:06 |
| kanzure | "Do you have an impact factor?" | 15:07 |
| kanzure | "As a mathematician I feel safe in saying that it is about as close to infinity as any real number." | 15:07 |
| mayko | LOL! | 15:13 |
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| kanzure | hrm so this is what people get from my presentatinos? | 16:32 |
| kanzure | *presentations | 16:32 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.dandascalescu.com/summaries/humanity_plus_conference_at_caltech_2010#Bryan_Bishop_.28Humanity.2B.29_-_Personal_Manufacturing_and_the_Gada_Prize | 16:32 |
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| kanzure | hi z^ck | 16:44 |
| jebba | kanzure heh. Well, at least it wasnt blantantly wrong. They could have focussed on the unicorn a bit more though. That part was a bit light. | 16:44 |
| kanzure | ideally the "personalized human enhancement and 'let's go make open source hardware equivalents of necessary tools'" messages would be the take-away.. | 16:45 |
| z^ck | hi | 16:47 |
| jennicide | kanzure: are you familiar with the philosphical debate re: ethical relativism vs. ethical absolutism? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | i'm relatively familiar yes. | 16:51 |
| jennicide | have you read much/any Bernard Williams? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | no | 16:52 |
| jennicide | cause im trying to support the argument that "ethical relativism vs. ethical absolutism" is a false dichotomy | 16:53 |
| jennicide | but im not sure where to start | 16:53 |
| kanzure | you should start on a mountain top in tibet | 16:53 |
| jennicide | i feel youre being facetious | 16:53 |
| kanzure | uh, but more seriously, i don't know names of formal ethical arguments that would help you here. they certainly exist and i've seen them before. | 16:53 |
| jebba | it presupposes ethics period, i suppose.... | 16:54 |
| jennicide | hrm | 16:54 |
| jennicide | im thinking that "is there ethics" | 16:54 |
| jennicide | has been debated | 16:54 |
| kanzure | jebba: but there are frameworks of ethics where relativism/absolutism is not really a question of "either/or" | 16:55 |
| jennicide | ie: aristole in the republic | 16:55 |
| jennicide | here is kind of the argument that i am going toward | 16:55 |
| kanzure | but rather "it's not even wrong" etc. | 16:55 |
| jennicide | my thinking is that a binary system | 16:55 |
| jennicide | isnt sufficient for ethics | 16:55 |
| jennicide | if that makes sense | 16:56 |
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| kanzure | jennicide: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2005-May/016017.html | 16:57 |
| joshcryer | Designs aren't copyrightable. | 16:59 |
| joshcryer | This is interesting to me. | 16:59 |
| joshcryer | Apparently designs are covered by copyright, patent, and trademark in total. | 16:59 |
| jennicide | that gets closer | 16:59 |
| joshcryer | http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat072706.html | 17:00 |
| jennicide | http://jefallbright.net/content/how-power-influences-moral-thinking | 17:01 |
| kanzure | jennicide: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2008-June/043979.html | 17:02 |
| jennicide | i need to get on this listserv | 17:02 |
| kanzure | i think i might be moderator, but i forget | 17:03 |
| jennicide | fff | 17:03 |
| jennicide | i hate that i cant access ebsco | 17:04 |
| jennicide | cause i live off campus | 17:04 |
| kanzure | do you need a particular paper | 17:04 |
| kanzure | if you have a campus login your library probably has a proxy.. what university? | 17:04 |
| jennicide | http://jefallbright.net/content/how-power-influences-moral-thinking | 17:04 |
| jennicide | it has a proxy | 17:04 |
| jennicide | i lack access | 17:04 |
| jennicide | cause i dotn have my student id yt | 17:04 |
| jennicide | yet | 17:04 |
| jennicide | ill just grab it monday | 17:05 |
| kanzure | jef is very friendly and would be happy to help you if you email him | 17:06 |
| kanzure | Jef Allbright <jef@jefallbright.net> | 17:06 |
| jebba | wow, that looks like a good paper | 17:07 |
| jennicide | thanks | 17:07 |
| jebba | "How power influences moral thinking". For example, "well, we publish all these papers to advance culture, but, well,, not everyone can see them because of rule #..." ;) | 17:08 |
| jebba | ...academic publishing... | 17:09 |
| kanzure | academic circle jerking | 17:09 |
| jennicide | that is what frustrates me about sociology | 17:12 |
| jennicide | they make suggestions that could be impactful for most everyone | 17:12 |
| jennicide | but they choose to write in a style that most people dont understand | 17:12 |
| augur | anyone know of any offboard memory type apps? | 17:23 |
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| jrayhawk | Ugh, I should really write an agency versus reason post on lesswrong or something | 17:50 |
| jrayhawk | Absolute agency: your actions remain constant. What you do on Monday you do on Wednesday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Absolute reason: your ideas remain constant. What you think is true on Monday you think is true on Wednesday, no matter what happened on Tuesday. | 17:56 |
| jrayhawk | Arguments about moral absolutism always fuck up this distinction. | 17:58 |
| jrayhawk | Because it's incredibly difficult for rationalists and irrationalists to comprehend their respective modes of thinking. | 18:01 |
| jrayhawk | errr, opposite or respective | 18:01 |
| kanzure | huh? is this still "moral absolutism vs. moral relativism" | 18:02 |
| kanzure | also are you channeling steve? | 18:02 |
| jrayhawk | oh god i am making pre-arguments about implication-management | 18:06 |
| jrayhawk | But yes, absolute agency usually results in relative reason, and absolute reason usually results in relative agency. | 18:09 |
| jrayhawk | Someone who argues that moral absolutism is impossible or crazy is usually intuiting that problem, and someone who argues that moral absolutism is fine is usually only intending to argue for half of that problem but failing to do so because they are insufficiently careful about defining their concepts. | 18:11 |
| jrayhawk | s/intuiting that problem/intuiting the whole of that problem but failing to express it as such/ | 18:13 |
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| joshcryer | Moral absolutism is perfectly logical if you make your questions specific enough. | 19:05 |
| joshcryer | "Is it wrong to kill?" <- too generic | 19:05 |
| joshcryer | "Is it wrong to chop off the fingers of a young pianist?" <- bit easier to defend | 19:06 |
| joshcryer | I like tit-for-tatism. | 19:07 |
| joshcryer | I don't know if there's a real word for it. | 19:07 |
| kanzure | no "moral practicalism"! that's cheating | 19:08 |
| joshcryer | I'm anti-neutrality, though. | 19:09 |
| joshcryer | If there's a position I agree with I should hold it, even if I'm wrong. | 19:09 |
| joshcryer | For instance, death is terribly boring and stupid and should be done away with. | 19:09 |
| kanzure | how can this possibly be boring? http://youtube.com/watch?v=ltyjVnnEuqg | 19:16 |
| mayko | i rather look forward to death; it gives me a reason to get shit done | 19:18 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, have you seen that done to people IRL? | 19:22 |
| kanzure | joshcryer: i'm kidding, i don't like death either | 19:23 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, heh, I know, and it was a pretty rad video, but, when you see that happen for real, just any of the disgusting things that was in that video, well, it at least leaves me morally outraged and pissed off. | 19:23 |
| mayko | death != violence | 19:26 |
| kanzure | it is incredibly violent | 19:27 |
| joshcryer | Yes it is pretty much the most violent anime/cartoon thing I've ever seen. | 19:27 |
| kanzure | "Much of death depends on state of mind." | 19:27 |
| kanzure | "Being born is not a crime so why must it carry a sentence of death?" | 19:27 |
| joshcryer | Had no emotional impact except for novelty reasons, though. | 19:28 |
| joshcryer | 'cause I've seen actual stuff like that happen to people IRL (on video). | 19:28 |
| mayko | if it == cartoon, yes. if it == death, there are plenty of people who fall asleep and never wake up. no chainsaws, no beatings, not even a protracted battle with cancer. | 19:29 |
| kanzure | that is still awful | 19:29 |
| mayko | we | 19:30 |
| mayko | ' | 19:30 |
| mayko | re born, we live, and then we die. I don't see the awful. | 19:30 |
| kanzure | it's the living part | 19:30 |
| kanzure | wait, i mean the dying | 19:30 |
| kanzure | i need to go away for a while (i'm still very ill today) | 19:30 |
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| joshcryer | Feel better kanzure. | 19:31 |
| joshcryer | Try not to die, etc. | 19:31 |
| joshcryer | mayko, technically we die every minute. | 19:31 |
| joshcryer | mayko, neural connections are continually being destroyed and new ones being created. | 19:31 |
| joshcryer | mayko, but consciousness is a funny thing so we have a continuious sense of existence. | 19:32 |
| joshcryer | mayko, some may be happy with that existance ending, but why? | 19:32 |
| mayko | When i was in grade school, I remember getting out of class in May and thinking that the summer vacation would last 4EVAR!!! well, if summer vacation lasts forever... why build that treehouse now? Why not build it tomorrow? The tree house never got built. | 19:32 |
| joshcryer | Changing, yes, I don't mind that at all. | 19:32 |
| mayko | Take care k! <3 | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | You never built a treehouse? | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | I built one. | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | My dog feel out of it. | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | 45 feet. | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | He survived. | 19:33 |
| mayko | why be unhappy with its termination? | 19:33 |
| joshcryer | s/feel/fell | 19:33 |
| mayko | whoah | 19:33 |
| jrayhawk | 45 feet is pretty ambitious for a treehouse. | 19:33 |
| kanzure | mayko: you should get it done regardless of time; you need to figure out other ways to control your brain if impending doom is all that motivates you | 19:34 |
| jrayhawk | damnit now I want a trrhouse | 19:34 |
| jrayhawk | treehouse | 19:34 |
| joshcryer | jrayhawk, heh, we had one 90 feet up. | 19:34 |
| joshcryer | But it was not a house persay but a piece of wood. | 19:34 |
| kanzure | basement goon can't have a basement treehouse | 19:34 |
| joshcryer | And we only went in it maybe 3-4 times because it was terrifingly bad. | 19:35 |
| joshcryer | s/in it/on it | 19:35 |
| joshcryer | mayko, this is why people like you get an afterlife, anyway. | 19:35 |
| mayko | I don't get an afterlife | 19:35 |
| mayko | that's my point | 19:35 |
| mayko | afterlives eliminate mortality | 19:36 |
| joshcryer | mayko, you are continually misled that you die, zip, nada, and then when you're 'resurrected' you're informed that you don't have to die after all. | 19:36 |
| mayko | um | 19:36 |
| joshcryer | mayko, and you can decide if we made the right choice, if not, then we delete your upload and all is fine. | 19:36 |
| kanzure | why did we let the practice of medicine become licensed and legally enforced | 19:38 |
| joshcryer | tit for tat and all :P "hey you can live forever." "I don't want to live forever! it ruins everything!" "oh ok then you don't have to live forever." "woot! non-existence ftw!" | 19:38 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, heh, capitalism. | 19:39 |
| mayko | there is a difference, I feel, between life expectancy and quality of life. Medicine treats both. | 19:39 |
| joshcryer | kanzure, look at the history of the FDA, they were actually using x-ray machines to do "shoe size" measurements on people, exposing them to lethal doses of radiation, etc. | 19:39 |
| kanzure | in particular i'm wondering about the legally enforced part | 19:40 |
| joshcryer | (not the FDA, capitalists were doing the shoe sizing thing) | 19:40 |
| kanzure | licensing is fine, but practicing without a license as punishable? | 19:40 |
| joshcryer | Is it? | 19:41 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_provider#Practicing_without_a_license | 19:42 |
| joshcryer | I guess that is true for certain services. | 19:42 |
| joshcryer | Ahh yes. | 19:42 |
| joshcryer | Sanitarian requires a license? | 19:42 |
| joshcryer | Seriously? | 19:42 |
| kanzure | "The "practice of medicine" may be defined as any diagnosis, treatment, prevention, cure, or relieving of a human disease, ailment, defect, complaint, or other physical or mental condition, by attendance, advice, device, diagnostic test, or other means, or offering, undertaking, attempting to do, or holding oneself out as able to do, any of these acts." | 19:42 |
| kanzure | "an individual is guilty of a felony if he practices or holds himself out as practicing a health profession subject to regulation" | 19:43 |
| kanzure | ah "health profession subject to regulation" | 19:43 |
| kanzure | so if he advertizes himself as not subject to regulation, it's ok? | 19:43 |
| joshcryer | That was my impression. | 19:43 |
| joshcryer | Disclaimers out the butt. | 19:43 |
| kanzure | unless it's "the law demands that this is regulated" in which case you're fucked | 19:44 |
| joshcryer | You have OSHA sanitarians and then you have guys who drive around the country doing sanitation work for a fraction of the cost. | 19:44 |
| joshcryer | (I did the latter job but work with people who do the former all the time) | 19:44 |
| jrayhawk | Since the state usually winds up paying for the resulting mistakes, both in terms of medical care and in terms of lost tax revenue, there's it's not difficult to justify restrictive medical licensing as a good idea. | 19:44 |
| kanzure | so again, why did we demand that practicing without a license is punishable? | 19:44 |
| kanzure | if you claim you have a license and you're wrong, that's serious fraud | 19:45 |
| kanzure | but i don't think that's what the politicians/law-makers are worried about | 19:45 |
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| joshcryer | I think if you look at it abstractly it worked like this: people in a field start a licensing committee and then become de-facto through lobbying that they must be used for licensing. | 19:46 |
| joshcryer | Making the licensing process itself a business. | 19:46 |
| joshcryer | Voila, yay capitalism. | 19:47 |
| jrabbit | :) | 19:56 |
| jrabbit | "efficency | 19:56 |
| kanzure | i need to radically restructure all professional societies. maybe by nuking them. | 19:57 |
| mayko | i guess the way I feel is, I have a spine that is built for a quadruped. I have an offshoot of my colon that has a tendency to explode. I can't manufacture my own vitamin C. My knees already hurt. Evolutionarily, there is very little precedent for humans living longer than a century. In practical terms, does adding decades and decades to my life really an Hplus, given the technological leaps I'm likely to see? | 19:58 |
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| joshcryer | mayko, death is unavoidable, the death of the you that I'm talking to at this very instant. | 20:13 |
| joshcryer | mayko, if you want to improve yourself to the point where you can create whole entire virtual planets populated with billions of people, hey, cool. Maybe that's possible. If you want to veg out and watch some TV and make some plastic toys, that's possible too. | 20:14 |
| joshcryer | mayko, how'd you feel if you woke up one day, many years after dying in a hospital bed surrounded by nurses, and someone said "Want to go again?" | 20:18 |
| mayko | re: death of me- I'm sorry; I don't understand. Could you clarify? | 20:36 |
| mayko | re: virtual planets- I write and I think and I observe and I explore. Do these count? As for this planet, I have no intention of reproducing. TV largely sux, though there are winning moments (The X-Files at least spent 5 seasons teaching people not to trust their gov't). Petrochemical plastic also sux, tho hopefully chemical engineering will survive peak carbon. Toys rule. | 20:39 |
| mayko | re: my reawakening. Depends. Will I be quadraplegic? paraplegic? have severe neurological deficits of the Not Fun variety? What will the world look like in AD 2500? | 20:41 |
| joshcryer | mayko, heh, you'd be either virtualized or in a perfectly healthy body in its early 20s. | 20:47 |
| joshcryer | To better discuss this, what do you consider h+? | 20:48 |
| mayko | on the other hand i think that my feelings are rather guttural. I have a feeling that H. sapiens is in for a speciation event and that such tendencies are likely to kick in before space travel does it geographically | 20:48 |
| mayko | LOL my early 20s suuuuuuuuucked | 20:48 |
| joshcryer | Hehe, you will have your "whatever-age-you-died | 20:48 |
| joshcryer | personality | 20:48 |
| mayko | puberty ended and the bottom dropped out of my metabolism. fml. | 20:48 |
| mayko | hm | 20:50 |
| mayko | I don't discount immortality or what-have-you for people who desire it; my idea of H+ is the sentient use of technology to improve quality of life | 20:51 |
| joshcryer | So oxygen tanks and pain killers. | 20:55 |
| mayko | for some people that might mean building better arrowheads; for others that might mean uploading their being to cyberspace until the Singularity hits | 20:55 |
| mayko | *shrug* oxygen is a metabolic carcinogen. have you ever seen someone who requires painkillers to function? | 20:56 |
| joshcryer | :P | 20:58 |
| joshcryer | If you can upload to cyberspace you're post-Singularity. | 20:58 |
| kanzure | what definition of singularity? | 21:00 |
| mayko | yeah you get to be the tortoise to the universe's archilles its pretty sweet but on the other hand i am insatiably curious and even if i spent an eternity in a computer, i would never learn what unbeing is like | 21:00 |
| mayko | on the other hand by definition i don't think I can learn that by not existing so... | 21:02 |
| mayko | *blinkblink* | 21:02 |
| mayko | oh the Singularity of the universe we are all in my bad lulz | 21:04 |
| * mayko is away: run mycellia run! | 22:01 | |
| mayko | speaking of such things gotta reboot mah brane night! | 22:01 |
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| fenn | wow what a backslog | 23:15 |
| fenn | i like andregg, he's sort of the archetypal white boy | 23:16 |
| fenn | 1950's scifi and all that | 23:16 |
| fenn | "We only want the best of the best, of the best of the best of the best- iterating that to somewhere way above the 99th percentile. And the team we’ve built so far is like that, just unbelievably good. I think the level of talent in the Halcyon project might be every bit as elite as it was in the teams that worked on the Manhattan or Apollo projects." | 23:18 |
| fenn | so that's why they only have one programmer i guess | 23:18 |
| joshcryer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7aF_FhALzs | 23:27 |
| joshcryer | 19 day long video | 23:27 |
| joshcryer | heh! http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/01/29/133304206/why-bacon-is-a-gateway-to-meat-for-vegetarians | 23:31 |
| JayDugger | ... | 23:55 |
| JayDugger | Does NPR have similar insight on spirulina and chlorella as gateways to vegetarianism? | 23:56 |
| --- Log closed Sun Jan 30 00:00:10 2011 | ||
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